Stossel: What Is Libertarian Foreign Policy?

[needtoalwayslearn]

Well what do you know, it's the black guy who's going all colonial now. What a swine.

[stevemcgee99]

Deroy is not a libertarian, he doesn't even understand the fundamental beliefs of libertarianism or he couldn't say what he's said.

[BlondBlackGuy]

We need troops in Europe, not to keep peace, but in case of an attack on the U.S., we are able to launch an attack closer to their home.

Also, I would much rather have troops in Germany and have peace, than not have troops in Germany and they attack (hypothetical of course, I dont honestly think Germany will attack us).

"Peace is having a bigger stick than the other guy."

[AzuAtoms]

Tsk tsk Deroy. Just like Milton Friedman. I agree with him on so many things, just not their neo-con foreign policy.

[iEatBoneDust]

Deroy can kiss my ass, he's no real Lib.

[tomperanteau]

@iEatBoneDust Deroy is a closet Liberal that voted for Obama.

[doobersmanster]

The problem is direct initial attacks can be so overwhelmingly devistatingtoday more than any other time in human history..so we wait till someone attacks us..if we wait then we may not be able to defend ourselves...I don't know the solution...I know treaty law supercedes constitutional law..doesn't it? the problem here seems to be a hierarchy of law not...it seems like socialism has and is spreading everywhere and regaurdless what we do it is the most invasive politic in the world...

[gothnate]

@doobersmanster

We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the earth. I think if we got hit by one ourselves, we'd already have a slew of missiles launched. We can defend ourselves. Secondly, The Constitution of the United States of America is the SUPREME law of the land in this country. Nothing supersedes it. Not the U.N. or their "sanctions", N.A.T.O., foreign treaties, nothing. 

[doobersmanster]

@gothnate The COnstitution is superceded by treaty law...Nafta is unconstitutional and it is law becaue it is treaty law..the treaties with the Indian nations is treaty law...In fact the constitution works against the people and if not for the bill of rights then we would not have the relative freedom we have now...I agree with you but you are mis-informed..it whould be that way and I wish it were, but treaties that the people do not vote for can and mostly do supercede our own prescious cons

[gothnate]

@doobersmanster

What I'm saying is, any document that makes legislation, be it treaties, trade agreements, or even laws; if they don't follow our Constitution, they are invalid. In order for them to be constitutional, there must be an amendment made to the Constitution that supports the other document. I'm not sure how you think the Constitution works against the people, but the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution and puts in writing the liberties the government isn't allowed to dismiss.

[doobersmanster]

@gothnate I agree with you that that is the way it is, but what do you say about Reservations as treaty law..and also Nafta...It should be that way but it is not practiced that way..It should not be the law of the land, but unfortunatly it is not practiced that way..States rights died with the application of the Fourteenth ammendment was applied to the states...This is the way the Collectivists have systematically dismanteled the Constitution.

[elnik32]

I like stossel, but I can't stand his clapping audience, really can't

[ProIndividual]

Libertarians are the real badasses...

We wait until we are directly in peril, facing absolutely definite threat of harm, and then...we kick their asses by destroying their ability to make war on us, and then by killing anything associated with their government. Then we leave...we don't nation build, we don't hold the down-trodden's hands, we don't rebuild what they froced us to destroy in self defense...we just leave, and go home. Our wars are fast and hard. 2 weeks to win, tops.

[EchoMike03]

Foreign Policy is where I depart from my libertarian bros and sis.

From what I'm hearing their FP sounds like "better them than me"

It's the equivalent of not giving a crap that your neighborhood has been overrun with gangs as long as they aren't stealing your stuff, or kicking your ass.

To them the entire world could have been taken over by the SU as long as they don't frop a bomb in Kansas. Seems nieve and dangerous. I do agree we should be more measured in where we go though.

[AroundSun]

They need Ron Paul up there, he usually sums it up.

[CytherLynx]

deroy is not libertarian at all... he gives libertarians a bad name... i mean, troops in europe? that's the last place they're needed

[666sigma]

Listen to these people speak versus idiots like Obama, Bush, Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Boehner.

[KenMacMillan]

As evil as Saddam Hussein was, he kept Iran in check.

[MikeJGallagherJr]

@KenMacMillan exept for the fact that we supported Iran... and even so, Iran does execute many people, but they were not commiting an all out genocide agains the Kurds.

[KenMacMillan]

@MikeJGallagherJr If I remember correctly, we supported Hussein at times as well.

[goPistons06]

libertarian policy in general is "leave people the fuck alone"

[KingPiccoloDaimao]

GDP =/= Gross National Product

[elitegaurdain]

Why would Iran attack France first. John Stossel should have brought up Israel.

[MikeyKP420]

I wish Stossel would've asked Murdock where the hell in the Constitution does it say that the gov't has the right to station American troops in foreign countries!

[LexPhilogus]

@MikeyKP420 The Constitution doesn't say that the government can pass a law prohibiting murder either.

[BeRealistic101]

Murdock is a neocon, not a libertarian.

[nphanlon1973]

I love theories and ideological values from people who have never been to a third world country under a tyrannical dictatorship.For evil to triumph,all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing.America tried isolation for 20 years before ww2 and that was a disaster..400,000 dead.If they had a credible deterent on the european continent then ww2 would have not occurred.And who are you to say that the lives of your friends and allies are not worth protecting???

[LibertaerUeberAlles]

@nphanlon1973

If you want to read how FDR deceived America into entering WW2 on behalf of the pro-Marxist banking cabal which elevated him to the presidency, then google:

"Franklin Roosevelt's 'Secret Map' speech"

True patriots such as Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh and Joseph Kennedy favored non-interventionism and good relations with Germany.

[1thruZ]

That nuclear reactor metaphor was unjustified.

[trajan74]

I have an extensive libertarian streak and dislike foreign intervention but in my neighborhood if someone punched your friend you helped your friend. If South Korea were attacked and our troops weren't there, there is no reason we couldn't use the Navy and Airforce to help repel NK. The same goes if someone attacked France.

[GGLebo23]

Deroy is a dumb ass.

[ich1banGT1]

@GGLebo23

Merely, slandering an opponents thought tactics doesn't win you the debate. All you have done is demonstrate your arrogance by resorting to name calling tactics often deployed by those of lower intelligence.

[mitchblatt1dot1com]

Truth be told, we aren't in South Korea JUST to defend South Korea. I'm sure the rationale that a lot of people would use for us being in South Korea is that we are trying to defend ourselves against North Korea.

[pythos82]

What the first guy in this video said is correct. Why do you think European countries could build such massive social programs during the cold war? Their defense spending as a percentage of their GDP was tiny. Ours, on the other hand, was massive. We provided the majority of their defense with our forces and they spent their money on becoming Euro-Socialist countries. So by providing defense to Europe, we actually encouraged their governments to become bloated more socialist.

[sansez]

US tried to install a puppet government in Iraq.

The plan backfired, they're pro Iran now

[gangreneday]

france's problem ftw.

also how is Deroy libertarian?

[a4finger]

great video, I love John Stossel

[RMMHS4RP]

"Libertarians" are not agreed as to the morality of the Iraq War and other preventive wars. Libertarians are unanimous in denouncing the Iraq War as unjustified and naked aggression.

[porkchop1948]

Regardless of the issue and content, what amazed me most in this clip was a panel of people with VERY different viewpoints actually having a civil discussion. Each speaker was allowed to speak without being interrupted or shouted down by dissenting voices. This is so different as to stand out. BRAVO, Stossel, et al.

[chevydriver1123]

Its not the job of the American tax payer to defend Europe, Africa, the Middle East or Latin America.

[gorgonzolaaa]

Why does libertarianism have such a hard time grasping this simple lesson from history? Si vis pacem, para bellum.

[Truthpolice9698]

I am a Libertarian and support killing terrorist.

[Th3Wab3]

@Truthpolice9698 do u support killing the kkk?

[Truthpolice9698]

@Th3Wab3

No but I do support not allowing below 100 IQ citizens the right to vote. Stupid people should not be allowed to vote.

[juanmisimo]

@Truthpolice9698

I hope you were being sarcastic

[Th3Wab3]

@Truthpolice9698 i don't support imbeciles occupying seats in congress or wore the presidential seat... as for IQ, i think science and study is proving that is not a justifiable measure of ability or potential...

[Truthpolice9698]

@Th3Wab3

Well in a sense you are right. IQ is a predictor but we all have a free will.  Wendy's founder Dave Thomas was a high school drop out.

Seriously for voting I would have no problem with a simple 10 question test. Who is the president? Who is the VP? Who is your governor? Who is your congressperson? How many branches of government? How many states? and so forth. You would need 7 out of 10 to pass.

If a citizen cannot pass then they do not deserve to vote.

[Chainedorlo]

Wendy McElroy made the best points. Secondly, Jeffrey Miron should read Perpetual War, for Perpetual Peace and section 1 of How the Far East Was Lost with regards to the "Good War." World War 2 was based on covert aggression of Allied governments, especially our own.

[Thorbie]

I think joining a war against a foreign threat isn't unlibertarian per se. If you're walking down the street and someone punches your friend, you are not initiating force by punching the attacker, even if he never laid a finger on you. You should be able to defend those who are the victim of unwanted force, further it might be in your interest to take out someone who could pose harm to you too. I think that applied to foreign policy would legitimize our acting in WWII before pearl harbor.

[joelsmades6]

They make some good points but what if Japan never attacked us? should we have just let Hitler take over Europe without ever engaging him?

[LibertaerUeberAlles]

@joelsmades6

It probably would have been in America's best interests to continue supporting the Reich, especially since near-landlocked Germany posed no credible threat. Moreover, consider that patriots from no less than 44-countries allied with Germany in the fight against Bolshevism. You might want to google:

"The European Volunteer Movement in World War II" - ihr

and watch the video:

"Adolf and Controversy"

[LibertaerUeberAlles]

@joelsmades6

I should probably also mention that many non-Europeans allied with Germany to free themselves from oppressive colonial rule by the British"Rothschild"Empire. These patriots included Indians, Arabs and Black Africans. You can find nice compilations about the topic here on YT. Just search on:

"Multiracial SS"

Another interesting page to google is:

"Adolf's Jewish Support"

or, alternatively

Jewish Support for Adolf Hitler

Best regards.

[ohgodmynutbladder]

Get it together Deroy!

[ltlblugrl]

Deroy likes pre-emptive war, and thinks we should have troops in Germany? That's not a libertarian viewpoint.

[dmlauffer]

@ltlblugrl

A lot of libertarians would agree that preemptive strikes are sometimes justified. Boaz says it best but gets it wrong about Iran not showing a tendency towards suicide.

[LexPhilogus]

@ltlblugrl Who made you the arbiter of what a libertarian viewpoint is? There are different kinds of libertarians

[migkillertwo]

@ltlblugrl

what exactly is the difference between a defensive action and a pre-emptive action?

[kiminokami]

@ltlblugrl That might not be a Libertarian position, but it is a libertarian position.

[byteusa]

But if Iran aquired a million nukes, THEN said "we're going to attack you", it would be too late. How many moves ahead do you want to think. That is the question.

[Th3Wab3]

@byteusa how is it too late last i checked iran wasn't in Canada or Mexico or relitively close... the USA has a navy, airforce and combined military that could mobilize and intercept any attacks from iran... no military can compare... dropping bombs isn't like throwing stones...

[byteusa]

@Th3Wab3 But if we allowed them to acquire enough nukes to destroy the world, it would be too late. No stopping it. That's the problem with nukes, you can't stop them.

[Th3Wab3]

@byteusa this statement is like saying what if a gorilla the size of Jupiter decided to punt the earth out of this galaxy...

here r some points

America has enough nukes to destroy the world. no one will use nukes on America because America has shown that they are more than willing to use nukes...

America needs to fix its own issues highest imprisonment, murders, thefts, rape, etc the American govt has a history of pigeon holing nations and bombing them without cause...

[XCritonX]

The troops in Portugal are very welcome. It is also in the best interests of Americans. They are stationed in the Azores navel and air base, where they pay rent for the space. That base is the key to controlling the Atlantic. It is also cost effective with only a hand full of troops maintaining the infrastructure.

On the other hand, why oh why is the US still in Germany?

However, if Iran is going to nuke France, well... I still don't see a down side for the US. No more fois gras maybe?

[fractalbuddha]

The overactive, 20-person live audience makes this weird. Beyond that, its an interesting debate. One criticism is there doesnt seem to be much variety in the panelists (except the guy who thinks American troops are keeping Europe from a "meltdown").

To Wendy: Its not American lives being protected by this foreign policy, its American *interests*. By that, I mean corporate interests. And while I think Democracy is a great idea, its horrifyingly ironic to export it through force. Hello, freedom?

[opacid]

@fractalbuddha I think it's almost hilarious to always classify things as "corporate interests" even when Libertarians are talking. They don't look at corporate interests, they look at the peoples interest. Everyone and every company is going bankrupt because we are involved in international BS. Internationalism is a huge problem for us.

[fractalbuddha]

@opacid Then what exactly are the American interests our military is supposedly protecting abroad? Its either government interventionism or corporate protectionism. Perhaps a mix with the belief that our nation is more capable of managing resources and governments than these other nations.

I think the Libertarians would agree with me. Its not in the peoples interest to unduly protect ultra-large businesses, whether here or abroad.

Then again, maybe it really is a global humanitarian effort.

[opacid]

@fractalbuddha No, it's repeated protection of allies and foreign interests that dragged us into an unending system of protecting the world. We don't do this BS cause we think we can gain from it. We keep protecting the world because we think, and everyone else thinks that we can save it! If we thought we could gain from it, our economy wouldn't be in the place it's in.

[ForTehNguyen]

Deroy Murdocks pre emptive war views FTL

[PeteEyre]

@return135 I'd argue that Wendy McElroy represented that position pretty damn well.

[sticksquash]

@return135 : You mean, anarcho capitalist? This is philosophically different from a libertarian. If you want to be a politician in America, your choice should preferably be Libertarian.

[return135]

@sticksquash "anarcho-capitalists" are basically libertarians who have followed the principles of libertarianism to their logical conclusions. Libertarian basically means "for liberty". So i would say the "anarcho-capitalists" are just the consistent libertarians. There are variations within the "libertarian" label.

[sticksquash]

@return135 Hrm, I guess. But I find it funny that I found an anti-tax libertarian. Andrew Napolitano. He's fully anti-tax. But I think he still believes in the government force.

[return135]

@sticksquash Ya Napolitano is a pretty cool guy. If he is against taxation then he must want free market competition in the services where government currently holds a monopoly over. i think thats a great idea. Napolitano talks with a lot of anti-state libertarians, so i wouldnt be surprised if he was one.

[rios9000]

@return135 Wendy McElroy is an anarcho-capitalist

[return135]

@rios9000 i didnt know that. thanks for the info. now only if stossel will change his ways.

[ZIRCHxWORLD]

@return135 that is sort of contradictory...

[gamp0001]

@return135 anti-state libertarians don't exist. Anti state activists are called anarchists. Stop hiding behind titles.