Eric Pickles looks at why Labour want to change the voting system

[starkeyworksit]

16 million votes? whats the population of the U.K? around 60 million. I think AV would be fairer. Its not proportional.

Pickles is a fat cunt

[TheKenfig]

@starkeyworksit There are better looking things hanging upside down in rows in butcher's shops than in this clip

[starkeyworksit]

16 million votes? whats the population of the U.K? around 60 million. I think AV would be fairer. Its not proportional.

Pickles is a fat cunt

[tomrees8]

The fat cats and the their political servants are desperate to stop AV. Don't let them get their way! Let's reform the voting system and make sure it represents us, not them!

[RedGoblinus]

Eric Pickles seems a reasonable man for a Tory. However, so long as the Tories keep us tied to the criminal, liar and traitor led European Union they will never get my vote.

[dhwilko]

You can't use First past the post figures to compare the two systems because more  people would vote and they'd vote differently. More people voting and less people voting for second best as their first option. Very few people vote for what they want in FPTP elections if they vote at all. I would suggest that is one of the reasons we have our current comedy front bench. would you like a wafer thin mint?

[StrummerIsGod]

"Under AV despite the Conservatives polling more votes (in the 2005 General Election) Labour would have more MP's in Parliament."

So what happened under First Past The Post?

[vkman34]

The "No" campaign have paid YouTube to promote their video in search results, and also refused to allow anyone to make a comment on it.

[kenfig]

Pickles you fat wanker ; you look like a fuckin' pederast and I would not be a bit surprised if you are uncovered as one ; go on a fucking diet .. NO, DONT go on a diet you fat shit ; keep stuffing your pig lard face and next time you have a wank you might get a massive stroke or cardiac arrest ; greedy fat hog fuck

[prigg88]

Funny how Pickles is only mentioning the English votes! What about Scotland or Wales. You fail to mention that you can just about get A seat in Scotland.

It is due to the fact you can poll more votes but not gain the seats which is why i believe in proportional representation!

[tdp1909]

God - a lot of bitter Labour people on this thread*!

All the jibes at Eric Pickles weight remind me of what that great socialist Christopher Hitchens says about his alcoholism:

"I always think it's a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem."

*- To be fair, there are some valid, indeed good, comments too... ;-)

[simoncase]

What about Scotland and Wales then fatty?

He didn't mention those figures were only for England..

[kavyman1066]

Moronic fat Cunt!

[dylans8]

he likes claiming expenses his favorate occupation

[BillKendall6]

Fat lying fuck. Thanks for your total gaffe on Channel 4 news today. Now we know we are dealing with right wing propaganda and dogma not rational government. I hope you choke on the next 5000 calorie meal you eat. Cunt.

[kenfig]

@BillKendall6 See my comment Bill

[person9144]

Gordon Brown had actually supported AV for ages. It's in my politics textbook that was published before he was in power. and AV would hardly change anything at all.

[npe1]

Oh irony of ironies!!! Now the Tories are going to put forward a referendum on AV because it is part of their deal with Nick Clegg. Are you going to support this referendum Mr. Pickles?

[Gr33nMamba]

No one suggested changing the voting system.

The figures in this video are wrong. Labour did have more votes in the last election, 9,562,122 to be precise.

Fantastic job Pickles.

[yohaneuano4]

Wait a minute - Pickles says that with fewer votes, under AV, Labour would come out on top. Yet exactly the same scenario could occur for either party under FPTP. Furthermore, it seems to be a tacit admission that Lib Dems would for the most part pick Labour as their second option, and thus that our current system is unfair and works against one i.e. the liberal-left.

[levantos]

The system does need to change because one persons vote doesn't mean squatt if the person he voted for doesn't win. Meaning there is a HUGE portion of the electorate who are sitting there now with no representation in government if their candidate looses.

It's an out of date system and they should bring in proportional representation which could become a reality in the next election when all 3 parties will have no outright majority.

[1oldgit]

Any pies left????????????

[TheRickynow]

@1oldgit Optimist...lol

[ImEuanAndIGotsSkeelz]

pickles only thinks its unfair because the majority of voters dont like the tories. the first past the post system is bullshit and everyone knows it even most of the tory voters i've heard speaking about it before their party took a stand against it thought it was a good thing, so shut your lying mouth pickles.

[mikecawood]

The Conservatives are the only people who should for the next government. Apart from everything else the entire Labour Party are scum.

Wenow have 52% of GDP being spent by Labour - this in the end will sink Britain.

And why does the Unite union have one leg down McBrown's underpants - this is just corruption. I will say this again in case there is any doubt - Gordon Brown is corrupt.

[warrenoc]

He makes it so blatant that he's telling lies and frankly all of David Cameron's people scare the shite out of me both in looks and in actions.

I'm sick and tired of this patronising rhetoric and no, you do not get my vote.

btw i'm not suprised that sky news is playing in the background, that channel has made its love for David Cameron so obvious.

I shall not vote for the re-encarnation of thatcher!!!!!!

[autofreak7]

@warrenoc get some sleep

[liferasta1]

My comments are not posting, conspiracy!!!!!!

[tramtrackharry]

at least its not on porno videos like nuliebore

[macktheknife888]

David Cameron stops at nothing, and in his vileness he becomes so gigantic that no one need be surprised if among our people the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of this man.

The ignorance of the broad masses about the inner nature of David Cameron, the lack of instinct and narrow-mindedness of our upper classes, make the people an easy victim for this politicians campaign of lies.

[Pocketwatchable]

If we have proportional voting, does that mean pickles gets two votes?

[rugby121]

@Pocketwatchable looooooooooooooooooool

[npe1]

@Pocketwatchable No. He gets 6 votes - one for each chin!

[garrie1969]

No Charges For Tory Donor Over Call Girl

Tory donor and friend of David Cameron David Ross will not face charges over claims of an assault on a call girl

[starystaryknight]

Why tell the truth,Pickles when a good lie is much more exciting?

[coward29]

Loving the braces, Mr Pickles!

[Pur3R3ason]

This is the party who will play with the voting system, make it undemocratic, favour the governing party AND put a price on our democracy (around £150million they claim to save) by cutting 65 MPs from Parliament.

[Pur3R3ason]

What an awful argument. Not only is Pickles trying to mislead some people by saying at the start of the video that just before an election GB is tying to change the system i.e. AV will be in place for 2010, but also his claim that under AV the Tories ballots will be morphed into less seats, but that is also exactly what happens under FPTP!

The Tories own plans, to cut MPs by 10% and gerrymander boundaries in the process will isolate and disrupt certain Labour wards. PTO.

[richardblogger]

All the figures are made up! This man is a liar like slick Cameron

[davidccooper1]

Don't just say they are made up richardblogger1 prove it!

[steps1]

Come on then..don't just write a load of nonsense without being able to back it up..maybe it's you who is the liar..?

FACT: LABOUR received LESS votes in England at the 2005 Election but ended up with 92 more seats.

Do you dispute that? So Brown wants to go from a system which is already biased in Labour's favour to one which is more biased in their favour..the guy is despicable and disgusting..he'll do anything to cling on to power..the sooner this farcical PM is out, the better

[iiiiiii0000]

"LABOUR received LESS votes in England at the 2005 Election but ended up with 92 more seats."

This is a argument FOR electoral reform. I'm finding it hard how you can use this as an argument when you support the current system. Though I would remind you that we are a united kingdom and english votes are not the only votes that matter.

[steps1]

It's not an argument for at all..I've already stated that FTTP is flawed but it is by far the best option..and you can tinker with FTTP in order to improve it..the reason the system is currently in favour of Labour is due to the boundary changes..Cameron will make changes to the constituencies.

I don't want weak, coalition governments which is what AV will lead to..I don't want secret deals behind closed doors.

[iiiiiii0000]

Pickles is arguing against electoral reform, and in support of his argument he is using figures from a past election to display how unfair the current system is. I'm not sure how he decided that was a convincing argument.

AV is not the only option, there are multiple electoral systems in place all around the world, what you say Cameron is proposing sounds suspiciously close to gerrymandering. If the conservatives are unpopular the electoral system shouldn't be altered to make them electable.

[steps1]

If gerrymandering means making boundary changes fairer so that you don't have a party winning 92 more seats even though it got less votes then yes he is gerrymandering..though it is interesting..how has that been able to happen under Labour? one would think they've been tinkering with the system themselves..must have been nice to go into an election knowing that in England you could get less votes but still come out with more seats..

[iiiiiii0000]

I'm in favour for electoral reform so I'm not sure why you're pursuing this line of debate with me. Though I would like to point out that your allegations that labour have tinkered with election results in any way makes you look slightly unhinged. Our electoral system has always created oddities such as this.

[steps1]

I'd suggest trying to claim that Brown or the Government don't want to change the voting system is greater evidence of someone of not sound mind.

It is a massive U-Turn from Brown though. As Ashdown's diaries reveal:

Blair: "I like it, Paddy. But I can't get it past Gordon!"

Fair play to Brown..after 13 years of power and just weeks away from an election he's likely to lose, you can understand why he's attracting to reform which is he used to be so against

[Awitsaduck]

Lets see how the government can find a way to make even more tory votes count for even less.

PR/AV are a way to bring loonies and weak minority government to parliament. Too much democracy is a bad thing in this case.

[Cena60793]

He only write down the figures the party's got in England, Labour did actually poll more votes

[steps1]

in the last election the Tories got more votes in England than Labour but Labour got 92 more seats

[Awitsaduck]

@Cena60793 Thats perfectly true, but irrelevant to his argument.

[75goodies]

deeply discredited and pointless government - too right. Bring on the Cam, and we will have some real leadership

[iiiiiii0000]

Additionally, as a northerner I would like to suggest that Mr Pickles not make us look like a set of glib morons.

[steps1]

Labour are a joke..the government of the living dead..propped up by a lunatic who is so hated by his own party they've tried to get rid of him 4 times (Labour are as cowardly as they are incompetent!)..it's great that the Tories allow you to comment and yet Labour don't..funny that..especially as Brown is all about 'democracy'..arf arf!

[iiiiiii0000]

They want to change the voting system because its undemocratic and antiquated. They didn't even want to change it, they were pressured to make it an issue by outside organisations.

This video is a disingenuous mess.

[steps1]

Are you for real? Of course they wanted to change it..and they want to change it because Gordon Brown is a desperate lunatic.

This pathetic system that Labour is proposing would mean that effectively you would go from the most popular being elected to the least unpopular being elected..how is that democratic? Labour are an utter joke and they're so desperate that they think the country are a bunch of fools who will fall for this..I don't think so!

[iiiiiii0000]

They didnt want to change it because it has served them a parliament for a decade. The movement for electoral reform is entirely independent from any one party.

Im not sure if you understand what electoral reform involves. If you go solely off Mr Pickles' figures then its no wonder you are confused

[steps1]

You're falsely trying to imply that Lab HAVE to do this - that's nonsense! There have always been electoral reform groups - it doesn't mean you have to do what they say!? Do you dispute the following: 1) Lab got less votes in England than the Tories in 05 but got 92 MORE seats 2) if the 05 election had been fought using AV, Lab would have got EVEN MORE seats, the Tories less 3) Thus, Lab want to move from a system already biased in their favour to one EVEN more biased in their favour!

[iiiiiii0000]

I'm not implying that they have to do anything, I'm implying that they were pressured into this by interest groups. Which is true.

1) suggests that you have a problem with the current electoral system, why are you against electoral reform then?

Any electoral reform would pull power away from the major two parties, it wouldn't advantage labour in any way. Labour are suggesting it as last minute election pandering, conversely the conservatives oppose it for entirely selfish reasons.

[steps1]

a) it's a very WEAK government that does something due to pressure from interest groups..jeez-well I suppose this is Brown we're talking about

b) How can you say the Tories are opposing it for selfish reasons? Even though the current system is totally skewered against them, they recognise that FPTP is the best option..they need to win by about 8-10% to get a majority..but they are saying that AV is a joke..that you go from the most popular winning (FPTP) to the least unpopular winning (AV)

[iiiiiii0000]

It isn't a government decision, its an electoral promise. It will not affect this election.

The tories are completely opposing it for selfish reasons, in another video david cameron is chirping on about making the british system more democratic, yet he opposes electoral reform. It is completely ideologically inconsistent and lays bare the horrendously transparent pandering machine that is the modern conservative party.

[iiiiiii0000]

FPTP does not lead to a situation where the most popular wins. It breeds tactical voting and people voting against the party they don't want in power as opposed to voting for the party they do want in power.

When I head to the polling station this spring I will be voting labour, not because I like them, not because I agree with their policies, but because they are the only thing preventing a conservative parliament. This is the voting behaviour FPTP promotes and, in all honesty, forces.

[paulmcalea]

Who ate all the pies Eric?And the ice cream,chips,burgers etc.

[TOLAKCOR]

A waste of time. Nothing will happen

Let us get on with some real work to get our country on it's feet again. I know what I am looking for and that is some real leadership and less flak being thrown at each other by the party leaders. Small boys rubbishing each other while like Nero the UK is burning. Where have the statesmen gone People who behave like grown ups?

What I want to see are some solid policies based on facts and not spin. That is what our country needs!

[express375]

Why does labour want to change the voting system...........

Why do the Tories not want it.

It's decided by referendum!! That's the little people.

The Tories are starting to show their true colours...Which is more of the same as we've had for the last 13 years,thinking that they know what's best for people.

[Awitsaduck]

And they would be right, well the certainly more knowledgable than the "Great" British public. Its very hard to underestimate the intelligence of your average person. They do NOT know what is best for them in regards to electoral systems.

[express375]

ya vol mein fuhrer

[iiiiiii0000]

Then how will we ever develop as a democracy? If the government change it without a referendum they will be criticised, if they change it with one they will be criticised.

We are operating on an ancient and outdated system, it will have to change at some point, the only question is when.

[gjcsouthsea]

Search for "Pickles Porky Pies" above and see how he's got himself in a bit of a pickle with the figures. Shameful from the Tories, lying to try and stop vital democratic renewal.

[steps1]

It's a disgusting act from Labour..it's funny how Gordon Brown has decided he wants to change the voting system even though he used to be dead against it..how many u-turns can one lunatic have? The current electoral system is biased in favour of Labour (the Tories have to be around 10% ahead to get a working majority) and what does Brown want to do? He wants to make it even more biased in favour of Labour..what a nasty, nasty man..he will do anything just to cling on to power

[iiiiiii0000]

They aren't changing it for the election. Its an electoral promise. I don't think you fully understand the issue.

[iiiiiii0000]

In fact, the only suggestion that has been made is a referendum on the voting system. Surely there is no way you could be opposed to that.

[Awitsaduck]

@iiiiiii0000 I am.

[iiiiiii0000]

You're against a referendum? Why?

[Awitsaduck]

Because it would (or at least might) result in electoral change which is a bad thing. (Produces weak minority administrations and introduces nutters (eg BNP) to parliament.

Old adage that too much democracy is as bad as too little holds true here.

[iiiiiii0000]

There are electoral models other than PR and FPTP, a referendum would simply ask if the electoral system should be changed or not. The intricacies of reform could be debated at a later date.

[Blackoutpr1]

but on the other hand, coalition governments fo have there advantages, such as the wider skill base. And introduce nutters to parliament? they could have a maximum of 5 seats, based on past results. Don't dis-courage a system which would allow the voice of the BNP, dis-courage the voting of the BNP

[steps1]

Absolutely!FPTP is flawed but it's nothing like AV which would be an absolute disaster..how can AV be transparent & democratic if it will lead to weak coalition governements that are decided by secret deals between parties in the backrooms of Westminster?

Cameron summed it up perfectly when he did a "Mrs Merton to Debbie McGee" and said to Brown:

"After thirteen years in power and 90 days from a general election, what first attracted the Prime Minister to changing the voting system? :-)

[iiiiiii0000]

To win votes. Because people want the system to change. The referendum would not affect this election. You're either being incredibly glib or you're horribly misinformed. That final point is irrelevant to the issue.

[steps1]

Are you for real? a) we're all aware it won't affect this election..is this going to be the last election ever? what about future ones? b) You have to laugh at your suggestion Cameron's undemocratic when he's opposed to a voting system which is undemocratic (or are you for secret deals between parties) c) "It isn't a government decision, its an electoral promise"..what!? whose decision is it then?who wants to change the system? d) knowing you're a tactical voter, it's hard to take you seriously

[iiiiiii0000]

The current system forces tactical voting. In England we have what is effectively a two party system. The choice given to voters is between bad and worse. If they don't want worse they must vote for bad. How do you not recognise this?

It isn't a government decision, its a labour party electoral promise. This is an important distinction as your language and the tory rhetoric being thrown around alludes to the idea that Gordon Brown is somehow trying to "fix" this election.

[steps1]

"It isn't a government decision, its a labour party electoral promise."

Jeez..Alistair Campbell would be proud..and here's me thinking Labour were in government..!??

And who are you to say that the choice given to voters is between bad and worse? Do you dictate or can't each voter decide for themselves?

Brown wants to move from a system which is already in his favour to one which would be more in his favour..had the 2005 election been fought under AV then Labour would have got more seats.

[iiiiiii0000]

I don't think you understand the distinction between the two. The clue is in the words. A decision is a decision, a promise is a promise.

If labour would win more votes in a more democratic system (though I have to question the legitimacy of predicting the results of a theoretical election that never happened) then maybe that should be taken on board as a message for the tories. We have no obligation to support a system because its the only way one party can get elected.

[steps1]

Do Labour want to change the voting system? Yes or No

It will hopefully be all academic anyway as you would have to be brainless to want another 5 years of this farce of a PM, so the referendum will hopefully not take place

[iiiiiii0000]

They want to provide a referendum.

You would have to be brainless to want to return to the party who forced our economy to rely on finance and thus made us face the full brunt of a global economic crisis.

[steps1]

haha..let's blame Thatcher..i had a cold last week and i blamed her too!

Brown promised he had ended boom and bust..what a joker...he ended boom and gave us the biggest BUST ever...he didn't fix the roof whilst the sun was shining..yet again Labour will hand over a basket case of an economy..another horrific mess for the Tories to clean up..just as in '51..just as in '79..it's a shame but it is one of the reasons the Tory party exists..to clean up the mess after Labour

[iiiiiii0000]

Sorry, you may find it laughable but its a fact that our poor form in the recession was a product of our economy's focus on the financial sector. I'm not a labour supporter either, so you won't find me defending them, I just think that in matters of the economy the conservatives have no ground to stand on.

[iiiiiii0000]

I don't understand how you can call a referendum on the voting system undemocratic. It is democracy in its purest most distilled form.

Your worry about secret deals between parties sounds like scaremongering. Firstly it presupposes what electoral system we would implement should a referendum pass, secondly it ignores the multiple successful models that are in action all around the world.

[steps1]

"I don't understand how you can call a referendum on the voting system undemocratic."

Please show me where I have said that a referendum on electoral reform is undemocratic? Where have I said that? Look..if you can't keep up there's not much point debating..you're confusing yourself..we are opposed to the voting system..it's the system whixh is undemocratic..and please..for the Labour party to be talking about referendums after they lied in their manifesto about a referendum is just unreal

[iiiiiii0000]

Labour's election promise is a referendum on the voting system. You are arguing against this.

[theoneali]

bnp, labour, tories, lib dems....same old shit

[adamthebaddun]

@theoneali I understand why you're saying that but it is just factually untrue.

[theoneali]

my point is that the public have no real choice 4 change

[ukpropaganda]

Eirc : I may never vote Labour again, as I have done all my life, but I will NEVER vote for vile filth such as YOU!

Labour, Liberals and yourselves are ONE party with 3 different branches.

You are ALL FAKE, working for the same corporations, banksters and New World Order oligarchs.

Some of us are NOT FOOLED and will educate the rest ( hopefully).

[erictheviking871]

@ukpropaganda u r rght but can we educate poeple and do they even care i wonder how many votes someone like jordan would get in this cult of celebrity age this is not a pop at jordan by the way

[samtheman180]

Vote BNP

[jules2246]

This is simple lies

[fmp636]

Mr Pickles has a good argument about Labour's tardy response to its own promise, but he is obviously afraid the voters might get to choose the politician it wants instead of those who the Parties want. Bring on democracy!

[erictheviking871]

iv just finishd a book called he the fight for industrial britian many of us in the north and other areas remember the utter contemt the tories had for the working class and the way they destroyed our communities for one womans ego make no mistake the tories will not change remember the laws they braught in to defend themselves and big buisness sneaky theiving liers

[thebigJM92]

I live in Lancashire and my family always have. My great grandad worked on the barges going down the Leeds-Liverpool canal and his dad worked in a pit near Wigan. Fucking heartland mate. But Labour fucked this country up, heavy industry was dead. The lifeblood of Lancashire was the cotton industry. My grandmother and my great grandmother both worked in cotton mills. But that industry died in the 60s. Lancashire moved on. Labour and the unions didnt let places like Newcastle move on. Now look.

[kavanaghchris]

Can he not be honest? In that election, Labour got 9,563,097, and the Conservatives got 8,769,755 (the Liberal Democrats got 5,981,874). He's using a subset of the figures (English votes only) without saying so, and that is very very dishonest.

The system is very unfair, and AV would be worse, but one doesn't need to lie to show this.

[animatorswearbras]

Thankyou for pointing this out, I also didn't appreciate the way they represented the rise in crime statistics a few weeks ago, that was shown to be based on incomparable figures.

I don't like underhanded tactics it stinks of propaganda.

I really am at a loss at who to vote for this election, with a choice of corrupt liars, bigots or the unrealistic.

[seedeefalcon]

Instead of telling us how awful Labour is (we know this, we are not stupid). Tell us how good the next Tory Government will be and tell it honestly. Don try and let Labour lose the election try and win it!

[grimconservative]

We need a massive, sweeping, radical redistribution of power.

Through decentralisation, transparency and accountability we must take power away from the political elite and hand it to the man and woman in the street.

But this spirit of glasnost needs to extend beyond Parliament

and throughout our political parties too.

David Cameron:

Fixing Broken Politics, Tuesday, May 26 2009

[webcamerontellslies]

The Tories are running scared of revealing any policies, mainly because if they attempt to it will confirm what a useless bunch of prats they are.

[gjcsouthsea]

What a load of old rubbish. The Tories just aren't interested in change. AV is an important step in ridding ourselves of the awful FPTP we have now.

Most Tories don't even know the basics... they even keep referring to AV as a form of PR!

[gwhite79]

House of Lords reform? All Labour was interested in was getting rid of hereditary peers. After that it has stagnated.

You won't get PR. You'll have a system which exagerrates the swing against a particular party.

FPTP is not awful. You get the most votes in a constituency, you win in that constituency. Can you vote tactically - yes.

[thebigJM92]

Oh and how does changing the voting system sort out corruption in Parliament anyway? How about changing the rules IN Parliament. How you stand doesnt change anything, Labour safe seats will still be Labour safe seats under AV and it is Labour MPs that make up the majority of this corrupt parliament now!

[thebigJM92]

Under PR each constituency would have more than one seat and the seats would be divided proportionally. So 5 seats in a constituency. If the Lib Dems got 20% of the vote they would get one. But that is PR whereas AV (that Gordy wants) is MAJORITATIVE. Trust me i have studied this.

[thebigJM92]

So even if the Conservative candidate got more first preference votes (meaning they would win under First-Past-The-Post that we have now) than the Labour candidate, the Labour candidate would win on Lib Dem second preferences.

This isnt about making things fairer for smaller parties. You still need a majority to win a seat and the minor parties will still fail to get enough votes. It is just a life-support system for the Labour Party that will give them extra votes.

[sp1midholm]

However, by the same token if I wanted to vote UKIP (as I probably will if the field a candidate in my area), I might then want my second preference o go to the Tories if UKIP don't win the seat.

This gives me the option of registering my real vote ('protest' vote if you like) for UKIP, and then get the Tories.

Seems reasonable to me. This is what they've had in Australia for years (where it's called Preferential voting). No-one there suggests moving to FPTP.

[thebigJM92]

Alternative vote (the system Gordon Brown says he wants), isnt proportional representation and it doesnt help minor parties. It is a majoritative system, heavily biased towards Labour and against everyone else.

Let me explain. People vote first for their party. So Lib Dem voters will vote Lib Dem. But the Lib Dems stand no chance of winning so it comes down to the top two, the Tory candidate and the Labour candidate. The Lib Dem candidate invariably puts his second preference vote for Labour.

[happionecom]

Mr Pickles I do not want to hear all you BS on Voting we all know the whole system stinks to hell and back. All your safe seats you do not want to lose. When people Vote we want an honest system that works. Having been a conservative voter all my life. Now no longer will I ever Vote for the conservatives ever again.

[MasterOfSuprise]

sorry Mr Pickles, after your humiliation on Question Time I find you a rather sad joke.

[ppauly]

any plans to go on question time soon?

hahahaa

[Cena60793]

What did he mean when he said "37 miles from the house"?

[xladydaf]

ok eric tell your boss this reform reform ok david here what i think you stop claiming £1,000 a month from the tax payers to pay your council tax and stop claiming £800 a month from the tax payers to pay your morgage after all we are all in this together or are we

[barnesjones2]

Like the tie Eric!

Anyway, if it's such a bad system why did you use it to select your leader five years ago.

You should atleast practise what you preach. The electorate want consistency not a party that's going to jump on any bandwago available!

[thomaso01]

Eric failed to mention the votes from scotland, wales and northern ireland. So his case was incredibly flawed as labour won the election rightfully. This highlights even more the electoral system needs to be changed as it was disproportinate to the amount of mps that sat in the house. Eric pickles completly twisted that video and made the partys case against the alternative vote system change even worse.

[Cena60793]

David Cameron hinted that he wants to change the voting system as well, he stated this in an interview

[admiralgustil]

so this would mean labour cheated the uk electorate!! DISGRACE!

[jonthed]

Labour may well be trying to fiddle the system, but that doesn't mean FPTP is a good system.

Neither is AV.

PR is the only truly fair system, why's everyone so against it?

you talk about how many votes conservatives got to how many votes labour got, you want a fair system to represent those numbers? IT'S CALLED PR!!!

[Cena60793]

@jonthed PR leads to many coalition governments and allows many small minor parties who don't have a clue of running the country get political power

[jonthed]

@Cena60793 minor parties and going to have much say are they. and as for knowing how to run a country... how much of the general public would currently say that labour have been doing a good job for the past decade?

By your logic, only big parties know how to run a country, and thanks to FPTP we'll be stuck with the same two big parties for ever.

Sounds like a nightmare to me.

And is still stifling my voice.

[Cena60793]

Yes, but look, FPTP is an easy system to understand, PR may be as well, but c'mon I mean ask yourself whether you would want the Loonies or Labour running the country? Or the Tories or nf running the country.

I don't agree with a lot of the 2 big parties' policies but they sure as hell know how to run the country better than most minor parties!

[jonthed]

???

You think if we introduced PR then suddenly the loonies or the BNP are going to be "running the country"?

If PR was introduced, labour and conservatives would still stay the strongest, but people would be free to vote for other smaller parties knowing that their vote isn't just being wasted.

people who at the moment vote tactically, where they would really prefer to vote for the lib dems, greens, UKIP, etc would all be able to vote freely.

but cons and labour will still be the biggest.

[tdp1909]

Maybe we should offer every person who votes Conservative a Free Hug from Eric Pickles - we'd win by a landslide!!

[craigrata]

**At the last election the Conservatives won more votes in England than Labour - but FEWER MPs.

[flubber125]

there is a difference between PR and AV.

[oblivionuk]

So after taking the Mugabe approach to running the economy they are now taking lessons from him on fiddling elections. Is there no depth to which this government won't sink?

[Scoforever]

We should start an organisation called NO2PR.