I saw Holmes at an outside event watching boxing on the Las Vegas strip hotel and casino. Forgive me, I forget the name of the place at the moment. It was early 80's in the summertime heat. It wa not Ceasars. I called his name and I got the dirtiest look from him. Holmes is an asshole.
@bigmace1000 read any book and any interview and holmes even says he did not wanna go to the olympics thats why he on purpose kept tying bobick up and got disqualified
I didn't think Holmes was holding excessively and the referee overreacted. It was a close fight and while Bobick probably had an edge, it wasn't that clearcut.
As a professional, after he had filled out some more, Holmes would have beaten Bobick had they fought.
Always nice to see Larry Holmes who is the worst sportsman in history get his ass beat....A young Ali would have knocked out Larry Holmes and Bobick on the same night...
@bigmace1000 I couldn't agree with you more. Holmes was the worst sportman in history. Remember when he pulled out that Gorilla and made fun of his opponent? Remember when Holmes failed that drug test? How about when he punched the guy at the press conference and connected with two shots? It pissed me off to see Holmes curse that reporter and make homosexual advances at him. And more disgraceful was when he bit his opponents ear. Larry Holmes is a national disgrace!
Duane Bobick was a good solid fighter who was a decent puncher but whose lack of defense and his inability to take a punch was exposed at the upper levels of professional boxing. Still he had wins over title challengers Chuck Wepner and Scott Ledoux as well as a win over future WBA champion Mike Weaver.
despite this loss, you can tell that Ali, who's helping Cossell do commentary, is impressed with the talent of this young, raw, underdeveloped version of Larry Holmes!
Bobick stayed drunk for years and punched out anyone who looked at him sideways in and around little falls and bowlus MN. I talked to him in North Memorial Hospital the night after his his arms got sucked into the roller at the paper mill. It transformed hin into a better man.
I would have loved to have seen Holmes Fight Teo Stevenson. Teo wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds against the avg Journeyman in this country. Teo fought amateurs.Holmes would have Jack-Hammered his head off!!
@xxdonaldqxx holmes kocked ali out? piece of shit ignorant
ali never was ko, angelo stoped the fight, fucking retard, ali had a iron chin, holmes is a piece of shit coward, where was holme sin the years 75,76 and 77?
he avoided past prime joe frazier(who broke holmes 2 ribs training), ron lyle,jimmy young, george foreman..
@rannnntanplan13 So if I said that Holmes won on a tko because Angelo Dundee did not want to see Ali take anymore punishment from Larry Holmes would I still be talking shit?
@onlyjoetee YOU ARE TALKING NONSENSE, THE BEST GEORGE FOREMAN IN 70-74 WHO DESTROYED FRAZIER AND PRIME NORTON , WOULD HAVE DESTROYED THE BEST LARRY HOLMES WHO FOUGHT PAST PRIME NORTON ,BERBICK ,SHAVERS AND COONEY. WHEN GEORGE WAS IN HIS VERY BEST IN 1973-74 LARRY HOLMES WAS NOBODY, HE DID HIS PRO DEBUT IN 1973. EVEN TEOFILO STEVENSON DESTROYED BOBICK AND HOLMES LOST AGAINST HIM, .
@combatesdeboxeo Berbick and Cooney were not past their prime. Holmes would have defeated Foreman because Holmes style was identical to Ali and Young who defeated Foreman. Holmes nlost against Bobick in the amateurs. Two different sports. As a pro Holmes defeats Stevenson.
@76WestSports i never said that holmes faced past prime cooney or past prime berbick, i said that he fought a war against past prime norton. and not, larry holmes was not ali or jimmy young. young was more elusive than holmes was ever. ali had better chin than holmes,more heart,much more stamina, he was more intelligent,he had more confidence in himself, and the weak point of ali was the left hook , the weak point of holmes was the big right hands(foreman´s best shot)
.foreman was depressed when he faced young, , foreman never was the same man again after of the fight against ali. a peak foreman 74 would have defeated jimmy young, and before of the limit. no doubt. yes, styles make fights, holmes was not the best style for george, ok i agree, but remember that holmes did accept the exchange of blows against punchers. he had great problems against weaver,shavers,spoon.. foreman would hurt holmes for sure, and a peak motivated george might finish holmes
@76WestSports under amateur rules stevenson would destroy holmes, teofilo had everything to give holmes the hell. he was stronger, he was harder puncher, he was bigger, he had comparable speed,skill... if you train stevenson to fight as professional, then he would beat holmes under professional rules too.
@xxdonaldqxx old norton gave holmes the HELL!!! holmes was almost died in the end of the fight, imagine 1 prime joe frazier!!! WHO HAD MUCH MORE STAMINA,WAS STRONGER THAN NORTON, HARDER PUNCHER, HE DID MUCH MORE PRESSURE, HE HAD MORE HEART,BETTER MOVE OF HEAD... JOE FRAZIER WOULD FUCK HOLMES UP ALWAYS!! STYLES MAKE FIGHTS
cant find it..but bobick wasnt that heavy as a pro..usually around 215 or so..he had a good pro record...but lost all his bigger fights..to guys like norton and john tate...
Yea, ok. Thank you. I first saw Bobick in the 72 Olympics against Teofilo Stevenson. As a pro he went into the Norton fight at 32 and 0 or i think. Man was he dusted in tha one
In '76 Ali actually backed out of a signed contract to fight Bobick. According to MSG matchmaker Teddy Brenner, Ali started believing the substantial hype surrounding Bobick and got cold feet.
Thanks for the story. I had forgotten about that. I remember all of the hype about Bobick before the Norton fight. I was around 13 at the time, and after reading the pre-fight article about Bobick in Sports Ilustrated, I actually thought that Norton was going to get a whuppin'!!
But that's viewing him with hindsight. At the time of the proposed Ali fight Bobick was highly ranked, unbeaten and thought to be the next big thing in the heavyweight division.
Yes, but of course,. it doesn't mean Ali was afraid of the man. He faced Foreman, another bomber, and knocked him out. I don't think he'd have any trouble with Bobick.
But the fact remains Ali did back out of a contract to face Bobick. Brenner originally put the fight together and was of the opinion that Ali was taken in by the hype surrounding Bobick and got cold feet.
Nope, he didn't want to fight Bobick because he got a much more lucrative offer. That, plus Bobick was a waste of time. He got blasted out by Ken Norton in one round. Ali would have stopped him less time.
Again, you're viewing it in hindsight. Nobody at the time thought Bobick was a waste of time or knew that he wouldn't be the goods. He was 38-0, highly ranked and highly thought of.
Ali's next fight after the proposed Bobick bout fell through was against Alfredo the Great Evangelista. More lucrative than a fight with an undefeated, highly touted white hope? I doubt it.
38-0 against opponents who had a combined record of 517-378, the only names one can recognize are Scott LeDoux and Chuck Wepner. When he faced an A-Level fighter like Norton, he got blasted out in one round.
Ali by 1977 was faded, but not so faded that he couldn't beat Bobick.
So Bobick wasn't worth Ali's time but Coopman, Dunn, Evangelista, Leon etc were? Okay. He was worth enough of Ali's time for him to actually sign to face him in the first place.
BTW. It's pretty doubtful that he'd be offered more to face an unranked Euro journeyman coming off a loss to Lorenzo Zanon than a 38-0, highly ranked white hope.
Yes, as crazy as it sounds, they were. Don't get me wrong, I'm not like munchkiecocoa, who makes it a point to go to all of Duane Bobick's vids and call him a bum - I don't think he was. I just felt that if he got blasted out in one round by Norton, Ali would have toyed with him. No doubt it would have been a big fight, but it would have exposed Bobick as someone who couldn't hang with the A-Level heavys. It didn't help that he got blasted by Kallie Knoetze after the Norton fight.
I'm not touting Bobick as some kind of boxing great. He wasn't. But unlike Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista etc he was highly rated and seen as one of the future stars of the division. He was 38-0 and ranked #4 in the world at the time of the proposed fight.
It seems that Ali also bought into the Bobick hype. That he was later exposed is irrelevant, because Ali wouldn't have known that at the time. Ali was near shot by then and did lose to Leon a year later so I wouldn't totally dismiss his chances.
Ali was shot in 1977 - The Thrilla In Manila took whatever prime he had left in him. But even though he was shot, he would have beat Bobick, who was a bit of a plodder, and while he had a quick right hand, he had poor punch resistance and probably would have been stopped by Ali. It would be a good fight, but Ali would come out on top.
What bearing does how you see a mythical Ali-Bobick fight going have on the original point that Ali backed out of a signed contract to face him? If Ali was as confident of winning as you are it makes you wonder why he would do that. If all boxers took that attitude then Tyson would never have bothered with Douglas, or Liston with Clay, or Baer with Braddock, etc.
You're trying to imply that because Ali backed out of a contract to fight Bobick that somehow Ali was afraid of losing to Bobick, which is ridiculous. Ali feared no man, to insinuate that Ali was afraid of him is laughable. Sorry, but it is. Bobick whined that no one took him seriously - look at Bobick vs. Norton. I can see why Ali did back out (IF he even did that). Bobick got blasted out in 1 round, Ali would also have stopped him.
I'm not insinuating anything, merely repeating what I know of the proposed fight. The starting point of this discussion was that Ali backed out of a signed contract to face Bobick and that according to MSG matchmaker Teddy Brenner, it was because he started believing the hype around Bobick and got cold feet.
Brenner was well informed about such matters and had no grudge against Ali that I know of, so I've got no reason to reject how he saw it.
If you have another explanation for Ali backing out of the fight, then I'd be interested to hear it. So far you've said Bobick wasn't worth fighting anyway (if so, why sign to fight him in the first place?) and that Ali would beat him easily, which is unprovable and hardly justification for backing out of a fight.
Also, Bobick had never been tested. Don't tell me you think Scott LeDoux and Chuck Wepner were guys who could test any young undefeated prospect, do you? Ali was shot, but the outcome would have been the same (certainly NOT a 1 round KO, but a late round KO).
So what's your explanation for Ali backing out of the fight? And he did back out - MSG launched a legal action for breach of contract.
Again, what does your opinion of how an Ali-Bobick fight would go have to do with anything? I'm sure if Tyson had never fought Douglas we'd all be here now laughing at the idea that Buster could beat him but we know how that turned out in reality.
Cold feet and Ali do not belong in the same sentence.
This was a man who fought against Liston, Foreman, Williams, Norton, Frazier, Quarry (who was MILES better than Bobick) etc, etc... All of these guys were tough fighters, and Ali beat them all! Trust me, fear did not cross Ali's mind when Duane Bobick's name was mentioned. That is of course, IF Ali did indeed back out of the fight. Somehow, I doubt Ali was "afraid" of Bobick LMAO.
You don't need to tell me Bobick wasn't that great. But you're viewing him in hindsight. There was a lot of hype around him at that time and a lot of people believed he was the goods. He was unbeaten, highly ranked and with an impressive looking record. He was in all the boxing mags, interviewed by People etc.
According to Brenner, Ali started to believe the hype, and got cold feet, and canceled the fight, and you haven't yet come up with a credible alternative reason for him doing so.
I call things as I see them, and, what I remember about Bobick was that he was good, but he was not that too good and was pretty much the 70's version of Vaughn Bean. A guy who had an impressive record, but it was built up against guys with not-so-good records. And unlike Bean, he didn't have a chin. When he fought Norton, I was not surprised at the outcome.
You're saying that he was afraid of a guy who had a 38-0 record aganst guys who did not have the best records. Gerry Cooney was another guy who, like Bobick, was mismanaged. He was protected to a fault, and when he finally got his shot against Holmes, the result was a TKO loss in 13 rounds. Bobick would have fared a bit better had he not been mismanaged and fought better competition on his way up.
And again, what does continually saying what Ali "would have" done have to do with anything? As if your personal opinion of how the fight would go justifies Ali backing out.
If it didn't happen in reality then it's moot. I don't recall a single person picking Spinks to beat Ali prior to their fight and look what happened there.
I have no idea whether Ali feared Bobick. Neither do you. I stated a fact that he backed out of a signed contract to face Bobick, and added Teddy Brenner's opinion that it was because he got cold feet after buying into the hype around Bobick.
Brenner knew Ali quite well, had no grudge against Ali that I know of, and his book is full of insider information on boxing, so I've no reason to doubt what he says. You haven't yet come up with a credible alternative explanation.
He was slow to get going and once other guys figured that out, he got blasted out early in a couple of fights. He was probably never the same after the beating he took from Ken Norton, in the first minute of the first round.
Duane Bobick didn't have the best of chins, but his real problem was his lack of speed. Duane got caught early against Ken Norton, and he was never the same after that. Kallie Knotzee, a strong puncher, was the only one who really put Duane down and out with one punch. John Tate stopped Duane later in his career, but that too took a great many punches from Tate to make them stop the fight. Heavy Willie DeWitt of Canada was similar to Duane, but Willie definitely had more of a glass jaw.
I saw him in the hospital after the accident. Both his arms were sucked into a paper roller in a paper mill. He'll never fully recover.
After he quit pro boxing he stayed drunk and punched strangers in bars for 10+yrs. The accident was a godsend message for him to sober up and live right. BTW he wasnt from little falls. he's from Bowlus MN. near little falls.
I saw Holmes at an outside event watching boxing on the Las Vegas strip hotel and casino. Forgive me, I forget the name of the place at the moment. It was early 80's in the summertime heat. It wa not Ceasars. I called his name and I got the dirtiest look from him. Holmes is an asshole.
thedonald11154 3 months ago
Ali used to spar w/Holmes when he (Holmes) was a young amature.
bitterclinger100 8 months ago
holmes did not this fight and did lose on purpose
kuriaki71 1 year ago
@kuriaki71 Why did Larry want to loose????? what are you talking about
bigmace1000 1 year ago
@bigmace1000 read any book and any interview and holmes even says he did not wanna go to the olympics thats why he on purpose kept tying bobick up and got disqualified
kuriaki71 1 year ago
@kuriaki71 I did not know this..and I thought I knew everything..lol..
Please advise why Larry did not want to go...I assume it was a money thing???
bigmace1000 1 year ago
@kuriaki71 holmes made excuses....He got spanked FINAL
djk28161 7 months ago
I didn't think Holmes was holding excessively and the referee overreacted. It was a close fight and while Bobick probably had an edge, it wasn't that clearcut.
As a professional, after he had filled out some more, Holmes would have beaten Bobick had they fought.
kentaappel 1 year ago
Always nice to see Larry Holmes who is the worst sportsman in history get his ass beat....A young Ali would have knocked out Larry Holmes and Bobick on the same night...
bigmace1000 1 year ago
@bigmace1000 I couldn't agree with you more. Holmes was the worst sportman in history. Remember when he pulled out that Gorilla and made fun of his opponent? Remember when Holmes failed that drug test? How about when he punched the guy at the press conference and connected with two shots? It pissed me off to see Holmes curse that reporter and make homosexual advances at him. And more disgraceful was when he bit his opponents ear. Larry Holmes is a national disgrace!
76WestSports 10 months ago
Duane Bobick was a good solid fighter who was a decent puncher but whose lack of defense and his inability to take a punch was exposed at the upper levels of professional boxing. Still he had wins over title challengers Chuck Wepner and Scott Ledoux as well as a win over future WBA champion Mike Weaver.
kentaappel 1 year ago
@kentaappel Bobick was good as long as he fought one dimensional B quality fighters.
jperez9805 1 year ago
Pity about this fight but no matter, all boxing fans know you are among the greatest ring men of all time.
Panthera0nca 1 year ago
despite this loss, you can tell that Ali, who's helping Cossell do commentary, is impressed with the talent of this young, raw, underdeveloped version of Larry Holmes!
sac2la 1 year ago
@sac2la
Agreed. Holmes did look good here. too bad he got disqualified, which wouldn't have happened in a pro fight.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
Bobick stayed drunk for years and punched out anyone who looked at him sideways in and around little falls and bowlus MN. I talked to him in North Memorial Hospital the night after his his arms got sucked into the roller at the paper mill. It transformed hin into a better man.
K-
kman20022 1 year ago
lol good britishes lol those wer the days be fair hahaha
cinna71 1 year ago
Funny how with all the Bobick buildup, it was Holmes who went on to fame.
unclebobunclebob 1 year ago
I would have loved to have seen Holmes Fight Teo Stevenson. Teo wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds against the avg Journeyman in this country. Teo fought amateurs.Holmes would have Jack-Hammered his head off!!
Nickcat5 1 year ago
Wow Larry Holmes was a stick figure back in the early days wasn't he?
dsfddsgh 1 year ago
quit having an Internet fight you fags. neither of you can tell if Ali was afraid or not. but it doesn't really matter.
yea, bobick looked good to me. holmes sorta moves like Ali and has that nice pistol like jab :)
TommyGun7111 2 years ago
Eight years after this fight Bobick was washed up and Holmes was heavyweight champ and knocked out Ali.
xxdonaldqxx 2 years ago
@xxdonaldqxx holmes kocked ali out? piece of shit ignorant
ali never was ko, angelo stoped the fight, fucking retard, ali had a iron chin, holmes is a piece of shit coward, where was holme sin the years 75,76 and 77?
he avoided past prime joe frazier(who broke holmes 2 ribs training), ron lyle,jimmy young, george foreman..
prime ali would shit in the face of holmes.
rannnntanplan13 1 year ago
@rannnntanplan13 Thank you for your thoughtful, respectful and intelligent response.
xxdonaldqxx 1 year ago
@xxdonaldqxx you deserves this response, because you did talk shit
rannnntanplan13 1 year ago
@rannnntanplan13 So if I said that Holmes won on a tko because Angelo Dundee did not want to see Ali take anymore punishment from Larry Holmes would I still be talking shit?
xxdonaldqxx 1 year ago
@xxdonaldqxx larry holmes might never ko old ali, ali had a heart of lion and iron chin.
and prime ali would win larry holmes hands down.
prime joe frazier would win larry holmes, prime 72-73 george foreman would kill larry holmes.
rannnntanplan13 1 year ago
@rannnntanplan13 you dont know shit man!!if george foreman would kill holmes then why didn't he??larry has been calling him out to this very day!!!
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee YOU ARE TALKING NONSENSE, THE BEST GEORGE FOREMAN IN 70-74 WHO DESTROYED FRAZIER AND PRIME NORTON , WOULD HAVE DESTROYED THE BEST LARRY HOLMES WHO FOUGHT PAST PRIME NORTON ,BERBICK ,SHAVERS AND COONEY. WHEN GEORGE WAS IN HIS VERY BEST IN 1973-74 LARRY HOLMES WAS NOBODY, HE DID HIS PRO DEBUT IN 1973. EVEN TEOFILO STEVENSON DESTROYED BOBICK AND HOLMES LOST AGAINST HIM, .
LEARNS SOME BOXING
combatesdeboxeo 1 year ago
@combatesdeboxeo Berbick and Cooney were not past their prime. Holmes would have defeated Foreman because Holmes style was identical to Ali and Young who defeated Foreman. Holmes nlost against Bobick in the amateurs. Two different sports. As a pro Holmes defeats Stevenson.
76WestSports 10 months ago
@76WestSports i never said that holmes faced past prime cooney or past prime berbick, i said that he fought a war against past prime norton. and not, larry holmes was not ali or jimmy young. young was more elusive than holmes was ever. ali had better chin than holmes,more heart,much more stamina, he was more intelligent,he had more confidence in himself, and the weak point of ali was the left hook , the weak point of holmes was the big right hands(foreman´s best shot)
combatesdeboxeo 10 months ago
.foreman was depressed when he faced young, , foreman never was the same man again after of the fight against ali. a peak foreman 74 would have defeated jimmy young, and before of the limit. no doubt. yes, styles make fights, holmes was not the best style for george, ok i agree, but remember that holmes did accept the exchange of blows against punchers. he had great problems against weaver,shavers,spoon.. foreman would hurt holmes for sure, and a peak motivated george might finish holmes
combatesdeboxeo 10 months ago
@76WestSports under amateur rules stevenson would destroy holmes, teofilo had everything to give holmes the hell. he was stronger, he was harder puncher, he was bigger, he had comparable speed,skill... if you train stevenson to fight as professional, then he would beat holmes under professional rules too.
combatesdeboxeo 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@xxdonaldqxx old norton gave holmes the HELL!!! holmes was almost died in the end of the fight, imagine 1 prime joe frazier!!! WHO HAD MUCH MORE STAMINA,WAS STRONGER THAN NORTON, HARDER PUNCHER, HE DID MUCH MORE PRESSURE, HE HAD MORE HEART,BETTER MOVE OF HEAD... JOE FRAZIER WOULD FUCK HOLMES UP ALWAYS!! STYLES MAKE FIGHTS
rannnntanplan13 1 year ago
hear that idiot ali talking about a white hope.
scorzeny45 2 years ago
@scorzeny45 That "idiot" that you're talking about is Mohammad Ali.
xBMF9000x 2 years ago
Wow, Holmes loos really slim.
NilezII 2 years ago
i dont know about all of you guys....but i thought the norton-bobick Ko was funny...
:)
newmagnum49r1 2 years ago 2
I thought the Norton-Cooney KO was funnier
:)
ebeneezzer 2 years ago
I thought the sight of any white fighter being KO'd was knee-slapping funny.
:)
Just kidding, but I know you're a racist, ebeneezer.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
fuck off and die cunt
:)
ebeneezzer 2 years ago
How about I don't and just laugh at you instead?
:)
By the way, you're still a bigot.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
Does anyone know what the weight difference was between the two fighters. Bobick looks much bigger than Holms.
6400az 2 years ago
cant find it..but bobick wasnt that heavy as a pro..usually around 215 or so..he had a good pro record...but lost all his bigger fights..to guys like norton and john tate...
gqmighty 2 years ago
Yea, ok. Thank you. I first saw Bobick in the 72 Olympics against Teofilo Stevenson. As a pro he went into the Norton fight at 32 and 0 or i think. Man was he dusted in tha one
Thanks again.
6400az 2 years ago
In '76 Ali actually backed out of a signed contract to fight Bobick. According to MSG matchmaker Teddy Brenner, Ali started believing the substantial hype surrounding Bobick and got cold feet.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Thanks for the story. I had forgotten about that. I remember all of the hype about Bobick before the Norton fight. I was around 13 at the time, and after reading the pre-fight article about Bobick in Sports Ilustrated, I actually thought that Norton was going to get a whuppin'!!
mantle64 2 years ago
Nver knew that story about Ali.........kinda like Holms vs Cooney.
6400az 2 years ago
I seriously doubt Ali was afraid of anyone, let alone a B-level talent like Bobick.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
But that's viewing him with hindsight. At the time of the proposed Ali fight Bobick was highly ranked, unbeaten and thought to be the next big thing in the heavyweight division.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Yes, but of course,. it doesn't mean Ali was afraid of the man. He faced Foreman, another bomber, and knocked him out. I don't think he'd have any trouble with Bobick.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
But the fact remains Ali did back out of a contract to face Bobick. Brenner originally put the fight together and was of the opinion that Ali was taken in by the hype surrounding Bobick and got cold feet.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
It doesn't change the fact that Ali feared no man. Heck, if he was capable in the mid-80's he'd fight Tyson.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
Except Duane Bobick, it seems.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Comment removed
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
Nope, he didn't want to fight Bobick because he got a much more lucrative offer. That, plus Bobick was a waste of time. He got blasted out by Ken Norton in one round. Ali would have stopped him less time.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
Again, you're viewing it in hindsight. Nobody at the time thought Bobick was a waste of time or knew that he wouldn't be the goods. He was 38-0, highly ranked and highly thought of.
Ali's next fight after the proposed Bobick bout fell through was against Alfredo the Great Evangelista. More lucrative than a fight with an undefeated, highly touted white hope? I doubt it.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
38-0 against opponents who had a combined record of 517-378, the only names one can recognize are Scott LeDoux and Chuck Wepner. When he faced an A-Level fighter like Norton, he got blasted out in one round.
Ali by 1977 was faded, but not so faded that he couldn't beat Bobick.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
If an Ali win was as assured as you think, it makes you wonder why he backed out of the fight...
And bear in mind that by that stage Ali barely beat Evangelista and lost to Leon a year later.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Simple - he felt Bobick wasn't worth his time. Plus he was offered more money to fight Evangelista.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
So Bobick wasn't worth Ali's time but Coopman, Dunn, Evangelista, Leon etc were? Okay. He was worth enough of Ali's time for him to actually sign to face him in the first place.
BTW. It's pretty doubtful that he'd be offered more to face an unranked Euro journeyman coming off a loss to Lorenzo Zanon than a 38-0, highly ranked white hope.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Yes, as crazy as it sounds, they were. Don't get me wrong, I'm not like munchkiecocoa, who makes it a point to go to all of Duane Bobick's vids and call him a bum - I don't think he was. I just felt that if he got blasted out in one round by Norton, Ali would have toyed with him. No doubt it would have been a big fight, but it would have exposed Bobick as someone who couldn't hang with the A-Level heavys. It didn't help that he got blasted by Kallie Knoetze after the Norton fight.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
I'm not touting Bobick as some kind of boxing great. He wasn't. But unlike Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista etc he was highly rated and seen as one of the future stars of the division. He was 38-0 and ranked #4 in the world at the time of the proposed fight.
It seems that Ali also bought into the Bobick hype. That he was later exposed is irrelevant, because Ali wouldn't have known that at the time. Ali was near shot by then and did lose to Leon a year later so I wouldn't totally dismiss his chances.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Ali was shot in 1977 - The Thrilla In Manila took whatever prime he had left in him. But even though he was shot, he would have beat Bobick, who was a bit of a plodder, and while he had a quick right hand, he had poor punch resistance and probably would have been stopped by Ali. It would be a good fight, but Ali would come out on top.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
What bearing does how you see a mythical Ali-Bobick fight going have on the original point that Ali backed out of a signed contract to face him? If Ali was as confident of winning as you are it makes you wonder why he would do that. If all boxers took that attitude then Tyson would never have bothered with Douglas, or Liston with Clay, or Baer with Braddock, etc.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
You're trying to imply that because Ali backed out of a contract to fight Bobick that somehow Ali was afraid of losing to Bobick, which is ridiculous. Ali feared no man, to insinuate that Ali was afraid of him is laughable. Sorry, but it is. Bobick whined that no one took him seriously - look at Bobick vs. Norton. I can see why Ali did back out (IF he even did that). Bobick got blasted out in 1 round, Ali would also have stopped him.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
I'm not insinuating anything, merely repeating what I know of the proposed fight. The starting point of this discussion was that Ali backed out of a signed contract to face Bobick and that according to MSG matchmaker Teddy Brenner, it was because he started believing the hype around Bobick and got cold feet.
Brenner was well informed about such matters and had no grudge against Ali that I know of, so I've got no reason to reject how he saw it.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
If you have another explanation for Ali backing out of the fight, then I'd be interested to hear it. So far you've said Bobick wasn't worth fighting anyway (if so, why sign to fight him in the first place?) and that Ali would beat him easily, which is unprovable and hardly justification for backing out of a fight.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Also, Bobick had never been tested. Don't tell me you think Scott LeDoux and Chuck Wepner were guys who could test any young undefeated prospect, do you? Ali was shot, but the outcome would have been the same (certainly NOT a 1 round KO, but a late round KO).
Bobick would have made a ton of money, too.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
So what's your explanation for Ali backing out of the fight? And he did back out - MSG launched a legal action for breach of contract.
Again, what does your opinion of how an Ali-Bobick fight would go have to do with anything? I'm sure if Tyson had never fought Douglas we'd all be here now laughing at the idea that Buster could beat him but we know how that turned out in reality.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Comment removed
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
Cold feet and Ali do not belong in the same sentence.
This was a man who fought against Liston, Foreman, Williams, Norton, Frazier, Quarry (who was MILES better than Bobick) etc, etc... All of these guys were tough fighters, and Ali beat them all! Trust me, fear did not cross Ali's mind when Duane Bobick's name was mentioned. That is of course, IF Ali did indeed back out of the fight. Somehow, I doubt Ali was "afraid" of Bobick LMAO.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
You don't need to tell me Bobick wasn't that great. But you're viewing him in hindsight. There was a lot of hype around him at that time and a lot of people believed he was the goods. He was unbeaten, highly ranked and with an impressive looking record. He was in all the boxing mags, interviewed by People etc.
According to Brenner, Ali started to believe the hype, and got cold feet, and canceled the fight, and you haven't yet come up with a credible alternative reason for him doing so.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
I call things as I see them, and, what I remember about Bobick was that he was good, but he was not that too good and was pretty much the 70's version of Vaughn Bean. A guy who had an impressive record, but it was built up against guys with not-so-good records. And unlike Bean, he didn't have a chin. When he fought Norton, I was not surprised at the outcome.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
You're saying that he was afraid of a guy who had a 38-0 record aganst guys who did not have the best records. Gerry Cooney was another guy who, like Bobick, was mismanaged. He was protected to a fault, and when he finally got his shot against Holmes, the result was a TKO loss in 13 rounds. Bobick would have fared a bit better had he not been mismanaged and fought better competition on his way up.
ihatelifejosemartine 2 years ago
And again, what does continually saying what Ali "would have" done have to do with anything? As if your personal opinion of how the fight would go justifies Ali backing out.
If it didn't happen in reality then it's moot. I don't recall a single person picking Spinks to beat Ali prior to their fight and look what happened there.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
I have no idea whether Ali feared Bobick. Neither do you. I stated a fact that he backed out of a signed contract to face Bobick, and added Teddy Brenner's opinion that it was because he got cold feet after buying into the hype around Bobick.
Brenner knew Ali quite well, had no grudge against Ali that I know of, and his book is full of insider information on boxing, so I've no reason to doubt what he says. You haven't yet come up with a credible alternative explanation.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
he was a good man and trainer. i learned alot from him while serving in prison.
MyBuddyBuddha 2 years ago
WHY DIDN'T BOBICK GO ON TO BE CHAMPION?
jeryd2003 2 years ago
He was slow to get going and once other guys figured that out, he got blasted out early in a couple of fights. He was probably never the same after the beating he took from Ken Norton, in the first minute of the first round.
rawcer 2 years ago 2
@rawcer Bobick just was'nt meant for the pro game.
NoGoodBoyo1000 5 months ago
@NoGoodBoyo1000 Why? Because he never became world champion? His pro career was 48-4 with 42 ko's.
That is better than most fighters. No shame in losing to future champions John Tate or Ken Norton.
andrewr62 3 months ago
@andrewr62 Fair enough.
NoGoodBoyo1000 3 months ago
Glass jaw!
xxdonaldqxx 2 years ago
Nope
70Mack 2 years ago
Duane Bobick didn't have the best of chins, but his real problem was his lack of speed. Duane got caught early against Ken Norton, and he was never the same after that. Kallie Knotzee, a strong puncher, was the only one who really put Duane down and out with one punch. John Tate stopped Duane later in his career, but that too took a great many punches from Tate to make them stop the fight. Heavy Willie DeWitt of Canada was similar to Duane, but Willie definitely had more of a glass jaw.
DannyA123 2 years ago
Kenny Norton
prc85040 2 years ago
I saw him in the hospital after the accident. Both his arms were sucked into a paper roller in a paper mill. He'll never fully recover.
After he quit pro boxing he stayed drunk and punched strangers in bars for 10+yrs. The accident was a godsend message for him to sober up and live right. BTW he wasnt from little falls. he's from Bowlus MN. near little falls.
kman20022 3 years ago
see my man ali was there commentating with cosell
QUICKJABS1 3 years ago
What a great fighter Duane Bobick was in his youth.
zenmachinefilms 3 years ago
he lives in my home town of littlefalls he is a ref for youth boxing now. he was the ref for my first match
JStanDaBoxer 3 years ago 4
I heard he was injured a few years ago in an industrial accident. Has he fully recovered? I saw a picture of him with his hands bandaged.
funktron4 3 years ago
Yeah he got his hand pulled into a paper press which ended up with the loss of a finger his thumb i believe but since then hes made a full recovery!
JStanDaBoxer 3 years ago