The Worship Industry

[PatricianVet]

What is so satanic about it? I do not get it... It bears an important message for all of us, regardless the faith, beliefs or anything

[persevere67]

satan creates all the wrong in this world and these new age douche bags come along with all the things you want to hear to solve those problems, well this douche bag is just selling you another bag of tricks from the heart of the beast, this man is spiritually dead, i am sure that he never new Christ, how else could he be seduced by such drivel

[droslovinia]

@persevere67 You're right, he probably never knew the Christ that told us to not judge other people and to remove the planks from our own eyes.

[MrBeautifulba1]

Excellent point.

[Kagy777]

Good talk, interesting point of view. On the subject of pressure from the congregation, I guess the worship leader should be out to please God, not man. Also depends on the congregations attitude towards God, which can sometimes be improved by a worship leader who is sensitive to The Holy Spirit.

[ClumsyRoot]

Pablum.

[anickenovi]

Music can be a deeply theological revelation of truth. And when it is used as such, God's many dimensions have the possibility of pouring forth in rich ways that mere words fail to convey. J Armstrong

[mcrd2001]

I like the title, I think that you could also call it Commercial Churchification or The Jesus Store.

[Isaiah53Jesus]

Brian McLaren is one of the top leaders of the Emerging Church Movement, which is full heretical and New Age beliefs. You can learn more about that at Lighthouse Trails Research and Apprising org. I don't think Christianity is dying. Jesus said the way is narrow and few will find it. There have always been those few. The multitudes followed Jesus for free food and healings - blessings. Today is no different. Alas, the multitudes are not saved.

[cieluore]

What a slick propagandist

[11Voltron11]

Funny how people leave hateful comments.... Is that being a true Christian? No - its being scared. It says more about your faith than anyone can say.

[4merrmesax]

@11Voltron11 Actually, calling out false teachers is a very biblical, very Christian, very loving thing to do. Or was the Apostle Paul being hateful when he called out Hymenaeus and Alexander in 1Tim1:20, or when he said in Galatians 5:12 that he wished those in the circumcision party would just emasculate themselves? And McLaren has consistently shown himself to be a heretic. And those who understand and embrace his teachings are no better.

[11Voltron11]

@4merrmesax You start with a loving concept then move into hatred... Your comment has displayed to the world why current christianity is dying and why we need better theology to embrace all of humanity.

[testifyx]

we do not know how God moves and where the spirit goes I always ask God to clarify truly what he is saying to me like lately he is calling me back to my music in the Christian realm and I am going to follow cause I know its a call but I am wise to some of the bullshit , that is why I will not go in without his lead........go where he tells you brother and if you cannot figure that out go plant some flowers ,pet your dog and thank him for deliverance and bless those you despise love u in christ

[jam89nik]

People, write to me his word for me tranlate to portuguese. It´s easy. Thank you

[Pray4Revival]

This is so true. I think often about how Christianity has become an industry... and that the industrialization of Christianity is not necessarily a good thing.

[gareof]

You think this way because you hang out with those kinds of organizations instead of the true church

[raydar46]

Yes, he makes some good points on genuine worship, but he loses me in the immediate after thought. Think about the video, he uses special video editing and "mood music" while talking about worship being sold as a consumer product of prefabricated worship experiences. He is selling this also. Why not just do a video on a digital camera without all the bells and whistles? If it's all about God then why all the flash in telling that. I would be very cautious of following this guy and what he says

[capta1nfr06]

@raydar46 his real point is a point about how prefab worship makes it difficult to worship, it really works for some people, but I believe it also strangles a lot of people.

Worship that is prefab doesn't allow for personal response in a way that is real to those being performed at by the worship band, God wants a real relationship, with real emotion and engagement. When people don't engage with prefab, they feel bad because church says they should engage, that's his real point I think

[raydar46]

Performances are for concerts and not Sunday worship. It doesn't matter if it's a single voice or 100 piece choir and orchestra with rhythm section. Worship teams are to facilitate worship to God with a heart of worship, lead by the Holy Spirit. Content means nothing if the congregation is being led in worship to God. If you don't believe your church is engaging in true worship then leave. Find a Spirit filled church in that you are comfortable with the style of worship they facilitate.

[capta1nfr06]

My point was against performances lol and was less about what the content is and more with the fact that people are expected not to interact in most situations.

I have no problem with my church, I love it :) I think in some ways we're singing off the same hymnsheet if you'll pardon the pun. But I don't think that Brian McClaren has to have a word of caution hanging round his neck more than any pastor or teacher.

[TheEndtymsnatzal]

McLarain has a conflicted veiw of the BIBLE too.  He's a guy with a chip on his shoulder, takin it out YOUTUBE and videos. He's tryin' to act the role of the REBEL... joke....an attention seeker, Go cry in your beer.,He has cult leader tendancies.

[capta1nfr06]

@TheEndtymsnatzal cult leader? he's just reading the red letters. I'm very aware of cults and sects and offshoots from Christianity but if you can tell me something this guy has said that is heretical I'll concede.

Besides he isn't some sort of guy you're supposed to follow any more than you follow your pastor or vicar, Jesus is the only one we should follow and McClaren wouldn't say any different, way to go hate mongering, real Christian.

[endtymsnatzal]

capta1nfro6--- you' know the ropes. Bible says "Contend for the faith," salvation without repentance is not salvation. Christianity today, has no repentant heart. The Gospel is presented like Santa Claus.-- Turning from OLD WAYS, changing ones mind, cleaning up ones act, is automatic when Jesus comes in. Not takin SIN seriously life style of your average 2010 so Called breeed of Christian ain't gonna cut it. Sunday Christians are a dime a dozen.

[dymchurch1]

Many CEOs must be super envious.

They don't have to make anything. Just say it's there. Talk about low overhead!

If someone says they don't want to buy they can threaten them with eternal torment.

If a regular business pulled that, the law would be all over them.

[karpdiem2]

This is kind of interesting. I've begun reading one of his books & find him to be sort of "new agey". I am a pentacostal and involved w/worship. But, I have to agree with alot of what he describes here. But I'm not sure I agree with him

on all fronts

[CrystalIrismusic]

I completely agree, but isn't it a little counterproductive

when there is that "thought provoking, honest to you " mood music behind him?

[delaolsen]

We are looking for Worship leaders,​bands,​choirs,solo artist at our site check it out at​icmpraise.​com

[bolotax]

slow down there.....all of a sudden you are a prophet?

[opios80]

I am a watcher and i am very clear on what is a lie and a perversion of God's word.

Blasphemy!!!

[bolotax]

well...go watch somewhere else...whatever is that you are watching...

[mondayafter]

god is not real

[bolotax]

maybe your own God...yeah

[toebagscum]

Do you live in the USA?

[bolotax]

nope, not even close:) try romania:)

[YngKlvn]

Well said Brian, True worship for me is what ever gives 'worth' to God. When we live for the poor and the marginalised, we give worth to the words and actions of Jesus. True worship for me is so much more than 'Jesus is my boyfriend' songs, its acts of compassion and mercy. Keep up the good work.

[Donmusicman]

@YngKlvn Wow! So true! I'm posting this to my Facebook page! Hope it's OK!

[Donmusicman]

@YngKlvn Wow! So true! I'm posting this to my Facebook page! Hope it's OK!

[bolotax]

no. why?

[NihilistImp]

Xtians eat this crap up. starting your own personal ministry may be the way to really soar in the coming world wide depression. Hell look at L. Ron Hubbard; Your specious spiel doesn't even need to be remotely credible.

Many people are too weak-minded to cope with life and need a lie, any lie, to provide them succor. I should start my own religion, we could worship Julie Newmar or something.

[chase0freeman]

You should learn something about the guy before you judge him, much less his message in this video. All he was saying is that today, many parts of modern christianity has become a consumerist game..

So chill out on your irrelevant Pessimism.

By the way there are plenty of wack religions out there, I think one follows some star trek character even.

[eastsackevster]

but, this guy is catholic.

and I bet he is married, so then he thinks people that are not married, by authority of "church", a priest, can counsel married people, when they dont know about marriage!

And this guy thinks making statues of Mary and placing them all over a church building is okay, even though Jesus clearly called Mary woman many times, in the BIBLE

so everything this guy says is blah blah blah

[countstoneula]

he's not catholic, he's protestant. Although he probably wouldn't like the label.

And he is married, and probably doesn't care much about mary at all.

[brtlvrs]

Hi eatsackevster, I can't follow your comment. It looks like you are making assumptions and generalisations so you can make your conclusion: "so everything this guy says is blah blah blah".

So could you explain what this video does with you pls....

[katerrible]

That is to say, thanks for sharing, not shariq!

[katerrible]

Great video. Thanks for shariq!

[Jimbo3783]

For me, worship is not about what we can get out of it, but what we can give God. I approach worship as a sort of "sexual" act. Let me explain. God is desiring to be married to his people. Jesus is the Bridegroom and we (The Church) are his Bride. In a sexual act, it is always best when we try to please the other person instead of ourselves so that's what I try to do with worship. Because when i'm not trying to get anything out of it, that's when I get the most.

Keep your hearts humble.

[dougpierce]

wow... thanks brian. That is truth!

[drycreekvideo]

Ummm...what bible Brian McLaren? You guys have destroyed any possible belief in the Holy Writ for your followers! But...we'll just take your word for it all...you are so in the know...so gnostic after all...Hmmmn...

[perramik]

What Bible? Does yours not contain instances of people of God expressing doubt or uncertainty?

[myfacevids]

perramik are you serious? LOL dude THOMAS doubted.. and Jesus didnt get mad..

Get over it man.. you are picking at Brian and you havent even thought it through..

[perramik]

My reply was to drycreekvideo, who said "what bible", I know there's plenty of people expressing doubt in the bible... I'm on your side pal.

[edneel]

jesusfreak - ur words bring back the same thing that was said about us "the jesus freaks of the late 60's and 70's" who where condemned for bring guitars, amplifiers, and long hair into the church - sad

[jesusfreakrkg]

McLaren is a false teacher in the cult known as The Emergent Church. And actually... what is frightening... the beginning of this video I AGREE WITH! But where he looses me is @ 1:05 when he starts talking about "art" Art? how about expressing to God his glory, might, awesomeness, and ascribing praise to Him? It isn't about... art. being messy... then he kinda just starts rambling. Film? painting? don't recall the Psalms telling the worship leader to paint as an act of worship itself.

[veritas89g]

How did he lose u @ 1:05? I've never even heard of this guy before... but what he said makes perfect sense.

Art does bring glory to God. We are created in His image so it's only natural for us to be creative and find new ways of expressing ourselves.

And if you want to get technical- true worship comes from the heart not the lips. When we deny ourselves and submit to Him- that is true worship.

So if someone wants to display God's glory by painting, he's alright in my book.

[kamysch]

"Art is a collaboration between God and the artist, and the less the artist does the better." ~André Gide

"Music is an agreeable harmony for the honour of God and the permissible delights of the soul." ~Johann Sebastian Bach

[bolotax]

God created art you idiot....satan perverted art....

[DouglasFlather123]

To be fair though, you could substitute "emergent conversation" for "P&W" in this video and it would still make sense. Emergent has it's own hot books, celebrities, special seminars, their own music, vocabulary etc. -- it too is an industry. I'm just saying...

[XJayX7]

Brian McLaren is a False Teacher & a Liar.

He is part of the Great Falling Away, the Apostasy.

He's a Wolf....He's a Lying Wolf !

[freakybuzz]

No, one must only look to the charlatans on TBN and other histrionic Televangelists to see where the real false teachers and wolves are.

Brian McClaren is a voice of reason, gentleness, and peace. I will never understand why so many in the Evangelical community chide against such things.

[XJayX7]

freakybuzz > you're utterly deceived if you truly believe brian mclaren is a man of God.

he's a liar in the extreme.

with all due respect, read your bible & ask the Lord for discernment.

brian mclaren is seriously a wolf, no shadow of a doubt.

[freakybuzz]

*sigh* I can see there's no reasoning with you, so I will not even try.

Prov. 23:9

[carolinaaa]

and you are judgmental. it's one thing to claim discernment, its another to have a closed off min. Explain to me what you disagree with and please back it up with truth. Have you studied the bible? McLaren isnt the first one to teach this. You dont have to believe it but where does God give you permission to say what you have about him. Jesus himself states "don't point out the speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own"

regardless of Brian's theology, you need to check yourself.

[carolinaaa]

this was in reply to XjayX.

not in a harsh way, but seriously dude. Don't make statements about poeples teaching with out explaining yourself. If you really beleive that your right and this guy is wrong, explain to people why. Dont just wine and through names towards someone because you merely disagree with their teachings.

[nightflight83]

Its all an industry.

[erniebald57]

I tend to agree with him on a lot of things here. What he is saying is that too many churches are trying to use a formula for response in worship. Instead of allowing the musicians and leaders to be who they are, pastors and others insist on a certain style, and instigating a certain kind of feeling. Worship should be more organic.

The christian music industry is guilty as well. Some artists can't write a good tune on their own, so they rip a Vineyard song and release it as a single. Weak.

[M68community]

cool stuff...worship demands sacrifice. it has nothing to do with a specific song or piece of art. it has everything do to with connecting to the heart of the Father.

thx Brian M. good stuff...

also, thx dickmarellan for the the comment. insightful.

[dickmarellan]

Very good.

As an atheist and one commited to see religion confined to the home and designated places of worship, I expected another terrible "worship" video.

Instead I find a well made, pretty little film that the religious festival flock should see.

Just because it has Jesus in the lyrics doesn't make it good.

[AllTunzRock07]

I quit being a worship leader because of all the preasure and nonsense. Unfortunately, the thing which was meant to bring us closer to God has resulted in more church splits, and angry, frustrated musicians than I have ever seen. To top it all off, I have seen "pro" worship bands smoke, drink, doing drugs, cussing, and partaking in some pretty deviant situations, which begs the question: Why are you doing this? If you took the money out of it, I'd bet that most artists would take a day job.

[hutcherrelli]

He is tickling itchy ears..

[hutcherrelli]

This guy sucks, he is right though in the fact that we, in america have developed a industry,christians need to get out of the christian ghetto and experience reality!! worship is a life style,not a feel good trip on sunday. Some christian artists do nothing but rip off some popular genre and put Jesus in it somehow.Someone called B.McClaren a genius, a marketing genius,..and a wolf leading folks astray

[RL7523]

Um, did you even watch this video? Do you know anything about McClaren? He is horribly opposed to marketed informercial Jesus, which is what the modern fundamentalist church has made him. The wolves leading foxes astray are pathetic southern baptist ministers degrogating members of socety because they don't condorm to some cookie cutter standard of what they expect good God following Christians to be.

[chariotride]

The apostasy condition is in full effect, people should desire the word and leave the building when they give you gimmicks instead of God's revealed truth. Like any business if you don't buy it they can't sell it (except the gov't.) But if you won't read scripture on your own and meditate on the context & application the wolfs will do what they do. Steal kill & destroy your witness for Jesus. Brian U just need to admit prophecy said it would be this way before the trumpet sounds.

[morethansparrows]

He says all this while we have the music playing softly in the background to convey a feel and then there's the video...yeah..those worship leaders are bad trying to stir up all that emotion. ???

[fo0nish]

I think your missing his point yo!

[morethansparrows]

No, I completely got his point.

[fo0nish]

Respectfully I have to disagree given your comment. His point as i see it is that the art of worship can get lost when  we worry about the showmanship over the substance. Given that argument how do you respond?

[morethansparrows]

No, I don't think that you get MY point. I am NOT saying that his point is wrong per se - What I'm saying is that he is selling Jesus and the "truth AS HE SEES IT" in exactly the same way; as an informercial - to be able to incite emotion in the very same way.

[douglashlane]

You know, I hate to admit it, but I agree with MOST of what he said (except for a 20-30 second part starting around 1:20 about doubt). I've read a couple of McLaren's books and consider him to be a heretical false teacher, but I think he actually got this point right. I'm a worship leader, and I am continually bothered by the worship industry. There's a fine line between helping the Body of Christ to worship and simply entertaining them. Too many churches do the latter.

[thebig1noo]

@douglashlane what don't you agree with about that moment?

[oblongn]

What a brilliant video. So honest and thats why the Lord speaks through video in volumes

[jinx2608]

that's why I quit leading and playing in church. I hate the equation that is Artist + Christian = Christian Artist, that's crap. Especially when the christian music industry sucks and it's all a lie.

[toffetoff]

Then you should continue playing in church... If you have something the church needs, why keep it from it? Or is it more important to you what people call you?

[hattercos]

Firstly - what Brian says resonates with me on a multitude of levels. Finally somebody who is getting REAL.

Secondly - in response to Chazzbro's remark about rap... don't co-join the style or genre of music to the artists who abuse it. I could sing smut to the tune of a pipe organ if I wanted to. It's not the genre - it's what a person chooses to DO with the genre that counts. If poetry rocks - then you must love rap... (Rhythm And Poetry).

[w1secr8k]

Mclaren is on the right track. His message has more substance than the " all grace and deny the cross message" that's gaining ground amongst the "undiscerning".

[JonRaymond5]

"Impressed by the message" What message? Relativism at its finest. This man denies the authority of God's Word.

[natekyra]

Now, let's all run to the Jesus store and buy a new worship CD (of course, it will be cheaper at WalMart)

[toffetoff]

There is no relativism in this message. Listen to what people say instead of bringing your presumptions. He is acctually talking right out of the Bible here. Listen... or are you too tainted by your teachers talk about postmodernism being the end of the world?

[reelverse]

Great video. Impressed by the message.

[StephanAOTTO]

At the end of the day, it's all a performance, no matter what name you call it.

That doesn't make it a bad thing.

It becomes "cheap" when we try to call something other than what it is:a show.

The whole world truly is a stage.

Be honest with yourself about the part your playing, and all will be well.

[gospelmaestro]

As a worship leader I TOTALLY agree with this vid clip!!

[skifast78]

The emerging church right here...

[Grumee]

He has several points, there are so many I can't think to believe in what I say. Check out the channel

[chazzbro]

I completely agree with Brian's overall point. But he throws in rap in one of the exciting influences in music today. Mmmmm...no. Rap/hip-hop may be rife with creative POSSIBILITIES. But most is so bad that it barely qualifies as art. It's much more about the spreading of ignorance and hate than anything...and displays the ignorance of those "artists" who can't even top the quality of basic nursery rhymes in their wordsmithing. But poetry rocks...and can often add to musical and worshipful art.

[toffetoff]

What? Rap is amazing! At least if you listen to the right artists. Just like with any genre.

[wahoobytes]

The rating is fair, If you are worship leader your responsiblity is to be humble so that His presence will come. There is no substitute for His presence. you cant fake Gods presence. He provides the fireworks not you! Hes never failed!

[wahoobytes]

Ive never have seen the Holy spirit creator of art, nothing but..... Beautiful!! The Truth is those with a Love for God Recieve His presence through worship. theres just No faking that. Worship Ugly? Worship is the rufuge where the soul can be cleansed, and beautified, it is the start to repentance. This speaker has me confused. pressure on the worship leader is called (resposibility)the cool thing about leading worship is God has made it easy. Come as a child and He will always be there. .

[potatosweetpie]

I have actually stopped going to conferences and "youth groups" because of the sickening feeling I get from being in such a frenzied crowd. Worshiping the Lord is giving myself to him. To know him is to want to worship him in all that he has done for us.

[ftele]

I saw a biilboard advertising a local church as being comfortable with picture of a big couch..what is happening to conviction by the Holy Spirit..?

[MedicineWarrior]

Visit me at the Geotheology blog and check out the post "Loving America By The book".

[SpiritualSword]

I bet he won't answer MW. I could be wrong, but, I bet not.

[MedicineWarrior]

By the way, thanks to whoever for the thumbs downs.  That's very "Christian" of you. I don't use those... at least not in "discussions" like this.

[MedicineWarrior]

Read Isaiah 1. Pay special attention to verse 17: Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows.

----------

This is not the gospel but Jesus had very much the same message.

[waysofworship]

2 Peter 2:1

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

[MedicineWarrior]

I agree... but what are the heresies of McLaren?

Please define them.

I can also quote scriptures like 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Unless you can give me examples IO don't get anything out of what you are saying. You (or I) could be a false teacher under these scriptural quotes. Please clarify.

[WorshipKitchen]

Wow... we love your heart Brian. Great thought provoking message. We yearn after the heart of God with you.

[waysofworship]

Yes, there are those that have denigrated the worship of our Lord into something of the flesh based on mere feelings and worldly expectations. However, this commentary is quite ironic coming from someone who has handsomely profited from the "Christian Publishing industry" with manufactured, revisionist, and outright heretical views of the Word of God. Do not be fooled by the slickness of the production or seduced by the "wisdom" of the messenger, for behind the scenes the truth is reveled.

[MedicineWarrior]

Can you please explain where you see heresy in this message? I don't see revisionism here unless by that you mean a revision of what the so-called conservatives have done to christianity. This IS true conservatism. Its called discipleship...

God bless

[waysofworship]

Obviously you have not read any of this man's writings. His distorted views of the Gospel are thoroughly heretical.

[MedicineWarrior]

Can you define and clarify what you are saying? Where's the heresy?

I have read some of it which basically says what he says here. I see no heresy in that. I am not hacking on you- I am really asking a question. I seek dialog.

[jayman156]

this guy is a genius

[rondaeliezer]

Great video. It's a shame I found it now, for my classes.

[jesslorenzo]

your vids are good and thought provoking.However,I feel,people who worship are at a phase or journey of their faith that must be appreciated as well.Worship is a prayer of thanks that asks for consolation..and God gives that consolation..It is one of God's way of affirming us and telling us that,"Yes I love you.. yes..I am here."Worship is not bad but the question should be;What do we do after we worship?How much affirmation do we need from God for us to try to love like God.Keep it up.

[taqwa01]

mmm....'experience' God? what IS God to you? how are we told to worship Him?I've seen christian 'worship' sessions that looked and sounded more like rock concerts. so now we must ask ourselves ...'is this for my own entertainment, or for God's glory? how do i truly glorify the Most High? how does He deserve to be worshiped? people experience that same 'high' at rock concerts...its called Adrenaline. not HOLY SPIRIT per se. we need to be smart.

[liaisonproperties]

Youd be surprised the first mention of worship in the bible is when Abram took his son to the mountain. worship has turned from OBEDIENCE to feel good about myself....

[amin200m]

my point exactly. if the Most High has taught us a means to properly glorify Him, why would we think of taking our own route?

[boomac62]

Way to go Brian....right on the button.

[editor2325]

This is very "noomish".

[loewkr]

I think he is exactly right. This is not to say that this is the case only for worship...it is true for many other things within Christianity - but this fact makes what McLaren says no less real.

[berdine1]

this is so true

[merryberry1234]

A very American situation, me me me me me me me me me

[nicholasfiedler]

This could be said about anything that happens in a church, seems to be a success and then get's carelessly copied to produce like effects in other churches. The one thing I hate about churches and church conferences is that they are so unoriginal, they just want to replicate what seems to bring growth from other places.

[portorikan]

I must say that I agree as well.

[nicholasfiedler]

I should say, I don't hate churches, that is just the aspect that I like least about them. They just seem unoriginal.

[portorikan]

I don't hate churches either, I happen to be a part of a church. Grew up in 'em, decided that me and GOD, I'm in it for the long haul, and that includes my church family.

So, I understand first hand what you're talking about. :)

[amcintyre74]

I agree with los, but there is definitely a hunger we have created in the "worship consumer" for emotionally heightened experiences. That in turn puts pressure on us to create a worthy product...he used the words "whip them into a frenzy"...I have felt that pressure.

[loswhit]

I think that you could replace the words "Worship Industry" with "Emergent Church Industry" and say the same thing.

[PaulHarrison1976]

I worked in various Christian bookstores for years and know for a fact that the Bible itself is marketed to every demographic imaginable - there's no escape.

[mynhardtvp]

i am a worship leader, and i agree