the bible says his name was emanuel, first in prophesy, and later we see him called easu,yeshua,yashua,and jesus. But I'm sure if you look at the time, you would find that every one of those names meanings are the same. And that they describe the anoited. There is many college level deceptions about jesus. this is done on purpose. just look who the founders are of those ivy league schools. the only real truth is revealed in "Daniels Timeline" on here. watch it, learn it, teach it, & expect it.
what is it with you guys? Do ya' think you'll get 10 extra brownie points for converting one of us? My people (Sephardis from Spain) preferred to be buned at the stake during the inquisistion, than be baptised against their will, so what's up with you? Don't you get it? Anyone with a real Hebrew school and relegious education is sooooo not interested in converting, knock it off, it is so annoying, and you are so totally wasteing your time. BTW, your Hebrew is horrible, made me cringe!
@hebrewschoolgrad I speak of a Sephardi whose family was kicked out of Spain, Yeshua is who he said he was! Roman Catholics are not Christians, they are the ones who do evil in the name of Our King!
Over the years we have all been lied to by many false Religous Leaders and so called prophets. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false leaders. If you are a truth seeker please visit the web site which is displayed in our user name and take the time to read some of the articles... You will be very shocked.
There is a great audio there for you to listen to. You will come away asking many questions.
So basically if you are Jewish, God is only interested in you? What about the rest of the world. I find it hard to understand how you can read the Torah and deny the Messiah.
Is the clarinet a normal component of messanic music? It has always been my favorite and love to hear it in your songs. This music is so lively, joyful and very pleasing to the Lord - moreso than most common, modern day & widely accepted worship or secular music that is geared towards honoring man & not G-d. Old is most often better in the case of music - in my little opinion.
I will say that it is no posible that Isaiah 53 is refering to jesus. in any case here we are 2000 years after jesus debating if he was the messiah..when the real mesiah will come every one will know it! that is the point of the mesianic prophesies.
Yes, Youtube is hard to put in a decent argument with it's limited use of words.
I will also say that if it is impossible for Yeshua to be the fulfillment of Isaiah 53, then so too is it with Israel.
You see, Zechariah says that the Messiah who will 'be known' when he comes will also have been pierced by the Jewish people. This means he has already come previous to Zechariah words. Even some rabbinic thought said if Israel is not worthy, then Messiah will come lowly, not high and exalted.
That is a ridiculuos statement! The servant is identified as Israel in all Isaiah, there is not one mention of a jesus or of a son of god or of anybudy else as the servant. Isaiah 53 is talking about the reaction of the nations when they realise that they persecuted a blessed and holy people. for the reason deaths is in plural and injury is in plural. as the prophet says despite all that He shall see his seed and prolong his days! that prophesy has been fulfiled in Israel the servant of G-d!
may I request from you to have respect for our holy Rabbis? DO NOT use their teachings to push your jesus on us!! that is called a sacrilege,a blatant usurpation and distortion!those holy Rabbis knew well Isaiah 53 and they more that anybudy else wanted the messiah to come yet they knew that jesus could not have been the messiah.keep your arguements christian and I will keep my arguements jewish,jesus is not the messiah that is why you are here debating that he was,why he needs you to tell us?
You've been misunderstanding my argument the whole time then...... or you've been understanding it correctly but have trouble with it since it relates more to Yeshua than Israel.
I must inform you that true christianity is actually Jewish. You don't see it in the Churches of today to the most part because of their ignorance, but it is Jewish. Yeshua and his apostles were Jewish, continued to be Jewish, kept the Sabbath, etc..... So this is a Jewish debate. I'm sorry if you don't see this.
"I must inform you that true christianity is actually Jewish"
Judaism is the belives of the jewish people in a covenant to keep the 613 commanments found is the Torah, decendants of Abraham uninterrupted till today. chistianity started with renegade jews that changed their jewish names for Romans ones (Paul from shaul)to accept a pagan religion. NEVER EVER did they kept the laws of judaism instead they told the jews to abandom it by force!ABSURD!
don't reinvent history! christians never circuncized, never kept the shabbat instead they persecuted those who did! the followers of your jesus were nothing less than ignorant pagan people that never read the bible and killed, robed,lived inmoral lives...the scars of the legacy of christianity is still evident even today! you NOW speak about judaism because the SERVANT of G-d the people of Israel has prevailed in keeping the laws of G-d and waiting for the real messiah! jesus was a fraud!
Don't reinvent history? History teaches us that there would be a new covenant that would not be like the one from Moses (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
Then read Daniel 9:24-26. The timing of the Messiah would have to come BEFORE the destruction of the 2nd temple. It says that "Messiah would be CUT OFF, but NOT FOR HIMSELF" which means for others. Yes, Messiah would die. Daniel 9:24 tells us that final atonement, end of sin, and eternal righteousness would come.
do not be absurd! did you ever put atention at what you read? or you just repeat like a christian parrot? Jeremiah 31 says " I will put My TORAH in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it"and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more." DID THAT HAPPENED????
Jeremiah 31 is clearly describing a non-written Torah, one that will be in the inward parts of man, spiritual. Jeremiah 31 clearly says THE NEW COVENANT WILL NOT BE THE OLD 'TORAH' ONE.
Yes, the sins will not be rememebred anymore providing you accept the one who died for your sins, Yeshua. If you don't want to accept him, then you don't want atonement.
But final atonement and end of sin HAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE the 2nd temple was destroyed (again, Daniel 9:24-26).
the word "Toroti" means "MY TORAH" in every single case it means the covenant accepted at mount sinai by the jewish people. What the prophet is saying is that at that time there will be no more disobedience of HIS TORAH because every one will have it in their heart and in their beings that is ther reason that it will be no longer nesesary to teach because ALL WILL KNOW ME!!! that has not happened yet so it is premature to speak about jeremiah 31!
Jeremiah 31, as according to Isaiah 53 (which you now ignore because your Rabbinic sources confirm the MESSIAH - remember, these Rabbis didn't accept Yeshua because IS. 53 said they {Israel as a nation} wouldn't, though many Jews and even some Rabbis have through time). Since Yeshua died for the sins of Israel and all people, the torah law would not be the same. Temple sacrifices are no longer needed for one example. Jeremiah 31 has begun, it's complete fulfillment awaits.
are you kidding?Isaiah 53 reffer to the jewish nation that I already proved many times,I said that the interpretation of the rabbis include the messiah in it because the messiah is also a jew.There will be a reconstruction of a third temple! Ezequiel, Isaiah,jeremiah, indeed ALL the prophets clearly said that the Torah is eternal:"24 And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them."
you christians never kept the laws of G-d! changed for sunday the shabbat, believe in human god,even contradicted the one G-d for a trinity,and have the odacity to ignore all the prophesies about the continuty of The Torah because in your ignorance and with the help of an apostate like paul considered G-ds law a curse!!!! that blasphemy is what makes christianity a false religion to the core! repent!!!
I should repent? Does Isaiah not speak of Israel as being evil? Does Isaiah not say that the Messiah is to die for Israel's sin (again, your Rabbinic sources say so), Does Is. 9:6 not say that a PERSON born will be called MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Do the scriptures not declare that only God is a savior. If so, then Messiah, who is savior, must be deity.
I agree, the Church has done some wrong things to torah like the Sabbath. This doesn't mean all the Church is bad.
Here again you can't read! Isaiah was a jewish prophet speaking to the jewish people NOT to the gentiles! The jews being part of a covenant with G-d are critizise more than the gentiles much the same than a soldier is more diciplined than a civilian. No gentile will be held acountable for not keeping shabbat or for not eating Kosher since that was not accepted by them.For that reason the servant of G-d the jewish nation is acused more than the pagan gentiles,but we all know that Israel is holy!
and again! the name of G-d in a persons name never meant that that person is G-d Eliah means "He is my G-d" Obadiah means "servant of G-d" Elimelech means "my G-d is King" Rachamiel means "merciful G-d" Michael means "who is like G-d" so you in your pagan tradition conlude that the messiah who is supposed to be a grandson of king David is a human god that walk the streets of jerusalem. IT IS PAGAN AND IGNORANT!
The only IGNORANT thing is your self-righteous attitude and your view of the Holy scriptures in conjunction with your rabbinic writings. I say this in a peaceful way, however. I hope you can understand.
Isaiah 9:6 is clear that the names would refer to the person who has these names rather than a type of reference to God the Father ONLY that your examples show. So, this person of Isaiah 9:6 would in fact be the Mighty God and Everlasting Father.
Israel is only holy because of God's doing. God said it was for his name's sake and not for anything that the Jewish nation has done on their own. So, how can you say I cannot read when your own Jewish scriptures declare what I say, that Israel is often a very evil nation and Israel is only preserved because of God's doing, for his (God's) glory!
As for the torah, christians say they keep the 10 commandements yet don't keep the sabbath. Not all torah is for gentiles, though.
No. Your Rabbinic sources said the SERVANT is the Messiah, not Israel. I can provide the sources again. You are tampering with what they said now because you say you're a Jew so you must know. The one dying in Isaiah 53 is the Messiah according to their exact words, not the Messiah as part of Israel. Show me old sources that claim what you just told me. If you can't, then the servant remains Messiah.
you can't understand Rabbinical writings! the rabbis all knew that Isaiah 53 reffers to all of Israel,the contra celsum of your own Christian writings 800 years before those comentaries proclaimed that the jews said it refer to the whole jewish people. you have to have a jewish mind to understand jewish writings that is the reason for all this mistakes.
This is your most IGNORANT post to date. There is a Rabbi who says that Jews today are ignorant of the Rabbinic writings when modern day Jews say Isaiah 53 refers to Israel. This Rabbi says modern day Jews are not keeping true to the teachings of the ancient Rabbis. Your ancient Rabbis UNDERSTOOD that there was a Messiah who is to be a part of Israel (Jewish) yet he would be an INDIVIDUAL DISTINCT from the whole nation. Your Rabbis saw the King Messiah in Isaiah 53, not Israel.
Part 2: You say I can't understand Rabbinic writings but indeed I have (with the rabbi I mentioned in another post on modern day rabbinic thought). You are just afraid that the Rabbinic writings coupled with the Holy scriptures actually teach Yeshua and that's why you don't counter my scriptures I used. You know that if Isaiah 53 is really talking about the Messiah, then it really could be Yeshua. Funny that you use a Christian source to back up your claim but you can't find any Jewsih sources.
it is amaizing how you put words that the prophet did not say! the miracle of jeremiah 31 is that the jewish people all will return to G-d and that they will keep the Torah for ever! there is no mention of a jesus or a condition of accepting him....or anyone else! is amazin how you believe in christianity when you can't even transalate or anilize what you are reading! with time later I will awnser you about Daniel first get a good transalation!
If you insist Daniel means PRINCE, fine. Yeshua is called the PRINCE OF PEACE (Isaiah 9:6). Yeshua is also called MIGHTY GOD in this verse. God is sometimes identified as mighty rather than almighty (Is. 10:21). This verse also calls Yeshua EVERLASTING FATHER. Since this verse is detailing the birth of a child and these titles will be given to him, this is referring to an individual and not Israel. Israel has never been called mighty God or any of the other titles. Isaiah does speak of Yeshua.
That is another assesination of the scriptures! Isaiah 9:6 is reffering to Hezequia King of Judah,Hezequia means "power of G-d", it is normal por jewish names to have the names of G-d in them. you first decide that ir reffer to jesus when even a blind person can see that is reffering to Hezequia since it clearly says : "a child has been born" NOT "a child will be born" jesus was born 700 years later..in other words LEARN TO READ BEFORE YOU CONCLUDE!!!!!
Hezequia? And you're tellingme I'm assassinating the scriptures? Where does Isaiah 9:6 say it was Hezequia? Is Hezequia from EVERLASTING? Has Hezequia rigned on David's throne forever (Daniel 9:7)? Verse 6 begins as if present but ends as if future. "He WILL be called...." Nobody at that present time (700 years before Yeshua) was ever born that could have all these titles and be reigning forever on David's throne. This is speaking of a fuure fulfillment.
here again pay atention to the whole chapter! jesus was a prince of peace? did he not say: "I bring not peace but a sword" ,everlasting? he live to 33! Hezquia has the names because of what happened to him. as I said before names of G-d in jews is normal for example abashalom or absalom that it means "father of peace" or Ezequiel that means power of G-d,those names does not mean that they are G-d! so take that idea from your christian mind!
Do you understand the quote "I bring not peace but a sword?" Do you even know what Jesus was referring to? Yes, Jesus is everlasting. He rose from the dead. His body has never been found just like Moses' body. He had to die Isaiah 53 and had to be pierced Zechariah 12:10.
Hezquia is not everlasting so he can't fulfill the scripture.
Question: Why do you accept some people like Hezquia when he is not mentioned in the Tanach but refuse to accept Yeshua who, as you say, is not in the Tanach?
God is not a name! God is from GAD His name is YAH, and he came in his fathers name Yahushua Yah is salvation John 5:43 Yeshua is a result of vowel pointing of incorrect vowel pointing to try to force everyone to say Adonai rather than the name. His name never was god or jesus!!!!
His name was never YAH either. But the meaning we put into GOD is respectable to his very nature as is the name Jesus. I would still say, though, that Yeshua or other (Hebrew) ways that it is spelled would be more accurate or true to what Jesus was called back in his day during his ministry.
really? I suggest you discontinue using HalelluYah in your worship then ( praise you YAH ) considering the J didn't exist until 925 ad your Mithras god Jesus would not be possible. Also yeshua jesus whatever you wish to call him, geneology is through the cursed king jenociah
Oh,I can use YAH if I want. However, it is not his NAME (as you had wrongly said) but rather, as another poster said, YHWH is his name. Or it may be JHVH.
No, that's not his name but it is used for reverence because his name is Holy and we must not take His Name as any other name, His name is YHWH, but we don't refer to Him like that since we have that reverence to his name which is Holy, we'd rather call HIm Adonai, Hashem, Elohim, depending on in what aspect of G-d we are talking about.
it is incredibly stupid to try to teach a jew that knows perfect Hebrew the meaning of a prophesy from a terribly ignorant transalation! Daniel does not say the messiah it says "an anoited prince" he will be cut off (koret) because of his sins and it does not say "not for himself" it says "and he will have nothing" before you have the odacity to teach a jew to read his own scriptures PLEASE Transalate it correctly!! Daniel is talking about an evil prince. Alexander Yanai that was anointed!
I'll recheck Daniel (translation since I don't speak Hewbrew) but still, what then do you say about the END OF TRANSGRESSION (SIN), THE EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND ESPECIALLY THE FINAL ATONEMENT OF DANIEL 9:24-26. This all HAD to be completed before the destruction of the 2nd temple.
And let's go back to Isaiah 53 since you seem to be hiding from that: Your Rabbinic sources do teach the Messiah, not Israel. You teach Israel. Who is right and who is wrong?
Daniel 9:24-26 talks about an anointed one which can indeed mean a Messiah. The Hebrew word can mean that. It DOES NOT say he would be cut off for HIS sins as you said nor does it say he would be cut off for others (which I originally said because of a weak translation). Where does scripture say Yanai was that anointed one? From V.27 of Daniel, did Yanai ever make a 7 year covenant with many and do something half way through? And Yeshua had NOTHING, especially in his last 3 years of his life.
dis you noticed how your christian bible erroneusly transalated your bible? that was done to push jesus in it! that is christiany a deception and a fraud of history. virgin birth,the prophesies,jeremiah 31, isaiah 53,etc etc all mistransalated or taken out of context to push jesus in them. that alone should meke people reconsider christinity! to that add the terrible history that they left....
Very odd. For example, you're saying that christianity is using Isaiah 53 as deception yet your Rabbinic sources TOTALLY DISAGREE with you on the servant in Is. 53 and you refuse to consider this? Why? Because Isaiah 53 is talking about the Messiah, the Prince of Peace from Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Daniel 9:25 who brings the final atonement in Dn. 9:24 (coupled with Is. 53), all before the destruction of the 2nd temple in Dn. 9:26, who is the PIERCED Lord of Zch. 12:9-10 who is MOURNED for.
The curse is because of what happens when one disobeys the law. It means death and atonement is needed. However, don't be misleading for Paul also said the law is holy and good and that he (Paul) delights in God's law.
what a stupid comment! you do not obey the laws of G-d! so you are the cursed one! the Torah does not say that a siner is cursed,it says that the one that does not believe that it is the law of G-d is cursed! inside the lews of G-d is the great oportunity of repentace that in many cases did not need a sacrifices. we already knew that G-d will accept verbal offerings when the temple was destroyed.The law of G-d is a blessing! do you think that G-d gave laws to be able to curse us??? STUPID!
And how has Israel kept the laws? If they did, would Messiah not have come by now?
Israel is still like other nations.
Think abortion. Chief Rabbis of Israel ruled that abortion is a GRAVE SIN and that it is delaying the coming of the Messiah. They base it on Genesis 6:9. There's also another scripture that says God knows you in your mother's womb.
Israel performs 50,000 abortions yearly, only 20,000 of those legally.
Sorry, but the Jewish people are not as righteous as you think.
Israel is the jewish people loyal to G-d,the ones that keep the Torah, that is the remnant that has been loyal to G-d despite everything.
those questions are more for you than for me! I know that the messiah has not come because Jeremiah said that there will be no more disobedience to the Torah when he will come THAT IS THE REASON FOR HIS COMING!as long that there is one jew that does not keep Torah we will know that the messiah has not come!but for you? 2000 years of more evil, where is jesus?
Are you saying that one day every Jew will keep Torah and only then Messiah will come? Because scripture declares that ALL sin. Isaiah says that you (the Jews) have tried to make yourselves right with God by your deeds (keeping the Torah) yet God says these deeds are like filthy rags. Remember, Messiah had to come BEFORE the destruction of the 2nd temple. As for evil in the world, don't blame Jesus. He didn't do it. Just because many claim to be christian doesn't mean they are.
I wrote elsewhere about the new covenant of Jeremiah 31 that probably has ties with Daniel 9:24-26.
The law was still taught by Yeshua and his followers including Paul. Yeshua said he did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it. Paul said that the law is good and he would not know what sin was if it weren't for the law.
Yeshua simply brought the fullest understanding of the law (the final atonement, for example) and the spiritual aspect of it all (Jeremiah 31:33 - law in mind/hearts).
for once be honest! the followers of jesus NEVER Kept the Torah! stupid Paul the apostate jew said: "unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews" that is the same doctrine you dare aply now! spiritual deception to convert others even using Rabinical statements.jesus brought evil, more people has been killed in his name than any other man,specially the jewish people! here you are traying to make him the messiah because he is dead and only left 8276638 branches of christanity.
Yeshua arose and is alive according to the New Coveneant scriptures. So, you are wrong in him being dead. You show much ignorance in my talks with you. I reach you in this Jewish manner because I REALLY do believe true christianity is Jewish. Plus, you are Jew, yes? If so, then of course I will use Jewish sources with you since you (and not gentiles) will understand these Jewish sources. Paul said in the New Coveneant that he IS a Pharisee, not WAS one. Paul showed he remained a Jew.
yes I'm a jew, and a loyal one! Paul was a apostate that abandoned the Torah was a Roman citizen changed his jewish name for a Roman one and his seed was lost amoung the gentiles. there was never a christian or messianic teaching to keep the Torah until recently in the late 20 century only because WE LOYAL JEWS resisted your persecutions and lies. you now rob some jewish writings to try to convert us to your idolatry. it is YOU the gentiles that will come to the jews not the other way around.
Paul was a Jew and claimed it. He NEVER said he was a gentile. Paul kept the torah, the New Covenant scripture shows this.
You say you're a good Jew. Isaiah says your deeds are like filthy rags. Ez. 20:44 says he will deal with you in this time for HIS NAME'S SAKE and not because all the Jews, as you say, become good.
The Jews have already gone to the gentiles. Yeshua's Jewish disciples took his salvation to the gentiles. One day, a complete fulfillment when Israel is capital of world.
Even in a talmudic portion it is written concerning the timing of the Messianic age (probably due to Daniel 9:24-26):
"The school of Elijah taught: The world is to be for six thousand years; two thousand years empty without Torah; two thousand years with Torah; and two thousand years Messianic Times..." Midrash Rabbah Gen. 98:3
I use this point only to show that some Rabbis saw a change with the law within the Messianic times (so Yeshua's approach to the law may be appropriate).
here again! change of the law?? this is what the Rabbis said: 2000 empty that is when abraham came,2000 is the prophetic age that ended with the prophet Malachi,and 2000 are the mesianic age that is the time on which the jews will prepare for the coming of the messiah which will be anytime inside those 2000 years, but since is evident that nothing has happened that signal that the messiah is here,WE are still waiting for him! you also are waiting because yours fail to do his real purpose!
If Messiah hasn't come, then he'll never come. Daniel 9:24-26 says that the Messiah's coming had to occur before the destruction of the second temple. And BEFORE the destruction of the second temple, the FINAL ATONEMENT HAD TO BE MADE. So, yes, something had to happen in the past, the one and only final atonement. I showed you where the King Messiah would HAVE to come lowly (unimpressive), riding on a donkey. Your Rabbinic source showed this also which I provided the source before.
I mention your rabbinical sources not to try to tell you that these Rabbis accepted Yeshua. I know they didn't. The only 'point' is that many Rabbis don't take your view. They do not see Israel as the servant in Isaiah 53. Please don't miss what I'm trying to say.
These rabbinical sources confirm closer to Yeshua than Israel as they see a Messiah. I mean, one source I gave said Isaiah 53 was speaking of 'King Messiah,' the restorer of Israel yet here in Isaiah he is suffering.
you are traying to distord the words of our holy rabbis to force your jesus on me! That trick does not work! Im familiar with their teachings and know what they are saying. the point here is that jesus was not the messiah that is why those wise rabbis NEVER acepted hin as such...so why use them as evidence? they know how to read Isaiah 53 better that you and me, YET they knew it did not reffer to jesus!
Servant can't be Israel. Servant sinless, Israel's not.
Where does scripture say that Israel would be an atonement for the world?
V8 is Isaiah speaking about "My people." If it was the nations, it would have to read 'Our people.' Isaiah's people are Israel. In your translation, it would mean Israel dying for Israel. Yet isn't the atonement supposed to be separate from the one who needs to atone for their sins?
As for the seed of Jesus, maybe the seed was the salvation of everybody who accepts Jesus.
We also know of a prophetic spiritual state that would one day come to Israel in Jeremiah where God said he would 'write the law on their hearts.'
It's also written that the Jews will one day look upon the messiah (the one they have pierced) and mourn for him. Who is this one that they have pierced and that they mourn for? Jesus sure would fit that role.
"seed of salvation"? why should salvation be called a seed? just because you want to force Isaiah 53 on jesus? the word seed means progenity,that the nation of Israel will continue to live on that is why the prophet said "shal see seed and have long days" NOTHING to do with "seed of salvation" is incredible how you will even creat alien concepts just to push jesus in any verse of the scriptures. he had no children, "his deaths" is in plural NOT singular because is talking about an entire nation!
And why are you trying to force Isaiah 53 on Israel?
Isaiah 53 clearly talks about one dying for 'my people' but not the 'people' themselves dying. Just as Isaiah 53 says that Israel would reject the one that is suffering and dying, Zechariah also details about the messiah whom 'they have pierced,' that is, the Jewish people have pierced. This Isaiah prophecy shows that the messiah who is returning has already been 'pierced' and rejected by Israel just as Zehariah states. Think about that!
Isaiah 52 ends as follow:15 So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive. isaiah continues 53:1'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?"this is the question that the nations will ask when they realise that Israel carried their sin because like you they though otherwise! "my servant" is Israel Isaiah says it!
Israel is a servant of God, yes, but so is messiah yeshua and so are individual people who serve the almighty. We must interpret what 'servant' is being talked about when a servant is mentioned in scripture.
Isaiah makes it clear that the servant in chapter 53 is not the nation of Israel itself. I have already shown that distinction in another response to you.
However, the nation of Israel has 'never' been said to carry the sins of the goyim. The individual in 53 does, though.
show me one time in Isaiah on which the name yeshua is used as a servat of G-d!!! Isaiah 53 is talking about the only servant that is mentioned throut all Isaiah that is the people of Israel, I have proven that is in plural on two ocasions...so admit it! Isaiah 53 reffers to Israel!
Show me where Isaiah 53 (and the end of Isaiah 52) says it is the nations talking. All it says is Kings will shut their mouths because of him. Nowhere do I read that it is suddenly the nations speaking. It always seems to be Isaiah.
If it is Isaiah spaeking, then it stands as I said before, there is somebody else dying for Israel's sins in chapter 53.
I can also add that many rabbis of old believed Isaiah 52 (at the end) and Isaiah 53 talked about messiah (Messiah Ben Yoseph).
The messiah being part of the jewish people is included in Isaiah 53,but we have seen that is in plural because we are talking about many jewish people for centuries.
in any case:The church father Origen reports that this was the Jewish understanding in his time, hundreds of years before Rashi. (Contra Celsum).
Origen may say that but show me rabbinic proof. Regardless, you're trying to get away from the point. The point being that many Jewish rabbis of the past saw a Messiah in Isaiah 53, that in fact, Isaiah 53 was talking about only the Messiah, not the Jewsish people. So, I (and other followers of Yeshua) are not alone in this thought. It is also a rabbinic Jewish thought.
man,those Rabbis would rether die one thousand deaths than to believe that jesus was the messiah! Never bring a witness that does not agree with your testimony! you cant use them as evidence when you know they knew it was not reffering to jesus. nice try!
Again, I know these Rabbis didn't accept Yeshua. They also don't accept Israel and I gave you the Rabbinical sources. So, if Yeshua isn't the servant that your Rabbis teach today concerning Isaiah 53, I can also say that Israel isn't the servant of Isaiah 53 as according to many of your Rabbis of the past.
So, where do you stand? Are the Rabbis of the past mistaken?
You also asked me not to talk about Rabbis like I'm disrespectful. Yet your comments here on Yeshua are very disrespectful.
So, now you agree that the Messiah is 'part' of Isaiah 53. Good. At least you see that.
But I tell you as I did before, the Messiah 'is' the one talked about in Isaiah 53. Although I can agre that alot of Isaiah 53 could be fulfilled in Israel, certain verses show otherwise. I restate as I said before, the servant in 53 is to be without sin. I'm sorry but to this day, Israel is not sinless and this is from the word of God. Plus, the 'my people' in V.8 shows 1 person speaking.
here again you do the typical christian thing...read one verse ignore the begining and end of the chapter. the prophesy in jeremiah is reffering the the Torah the 613 commandemnt that will not be violated again
and no one will need to teach because "all will know me" THAT has not happened!!about the pierced one, read from the bigining of the chapter,is talking about a great war of all nations againts Israel,that did not happened in jesus times and the nation as a whole did not cried for him.
Yes, there is a great war that will occur with all nations against Israel. But it also tells of the messiah (who was pierced by Israel so one who is independent from the nation of Israel) who comes back to fight for Israel in a 'messiah Ben David' fashion if you understand me. That didn't happen back in Yeshua's time because that wasn't the time for those events to be fulfilled.
The messiah has already (in the past) been pierced when he returns so this must be a second coming.
again the christian thing...the shoe does not fit cinderella now but it will in the future in the "second coming"! the prophet clearly says :"In that day" SEVEN TIMES!!! not one thing today and then 2000 years later the other thing....is interesting to notice that all the prophesies that are real change and value christians resort to "the second coming"....
Zechariah 12:9-10 and 14:2-4 are most likely describing the same war and event so the "look upon me whom they have pierced" fulfillment should occur at the same time as 'the splitting of the Mount Of Olives.'
Since the Mount Of Olives hasn't split yet, believers (christians) look for everything in both these Zechariah scriptures to happen sometime in the future.
It's also noteworthy to mention that there is a fault line at the Mount Of Olives where it is to split.
What about the miracle of the 'root out of dry ground?' The virgin birth of Jesus can answer that.
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Is it not possible that the messiah has two comings, something that some have overlooked. Isn't there a problem with people in the inside, the spiritual state? Doesn't the animal sacrifices only 'cover' sins? Before messiah comes to bring peace to Israel, maybe the messiah had to first bring peace spiritually.
"virgin birth"? did you read that and realise that is all based on an ignorant transalation of the Hebrew? and what "spiritual peace" did jesus bring the the world? thousands of divisions within chrsitainity alone,2000 years had passed and here we are at war,in trouble just as much as it was before jesus...he changed nothing!
And what has Israel done to the world if they were the (and still only) chosen people? Look at the hate the world has thrown at Israel in the last 2,000 years. I don't need to mention any specific date since you are well aware of them I would think.
Jesus brought spiritual peace bewtween man and God. Did not the animal sacrifices only cover the sins? Do the Hewbew Scriptures not confirm that only G-d saves? This is why Israel cannot be the one that dies for sin in Isaiah 53.
as I stated before there was hate of the jews thru history including way before jesus! " 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution,"
we remain loyal to G-d despite evething! you now put Hebrew back to those that left our people and changed their names for Roman ones(like Paul)your movement of "yeshua" is just another deceit of history that was born recently by again stoling some of the Hebrew WE studied and Torah we kept,Isaiah 53
Yes, there has been hate towards the Jews before Yeshua and G-d often revealed why. So, what other reason aside from not accepting Yeshua has caused so much trouble for Israel over the years since Yeshua's time if you are so 'loyal' to G-d? Where is the messiah King? Why do you live not in peace? Why are you not a light to the goyim that the blessed scripture speaks about?
I don't say the above in ignorance. Israel is the most blessed nation in all the earth and I pray for it's peace.
If it is not talking about Jesus, who is it talking about......
Can't be Israel because Israel has been anything but perfect (as have all nations).
It also goes on to say that the jews would not accept Jesus (as a nation as some individuals did). This is actually what some of you are doing even to this day.
It even goes on to say that the Jews would think that Jesus dying on the cross was a result of God seemingly punishing him (which would make him not be the messiah).
"Can't be Israel because Israel has been anything but perfect (as have all nations)."
that can only be said by a total ignorant!
the jewish people are judged in a higher standart than the nations because they have a covenant with G-d in keeping the 613 comandments and the whole nation is jugde as a whole even when one alone commited a sin. So the sins of the nations and the sins of Israel are two entirely different levels. there is a reason why all prophets were Jewish,THINK MAN!!!
Show me where, in the Hebrew Bible, where God will judge Israel differently than the other nations? And more importantly, show me in the scriptures how they (the scriptures) can say Israel is without blemish and can die for........ Israel. Because.....
I can show where the Hebrew Scriptures call Israel anything but without blemish and I can show where the Hebrew Scriptures show a messiah returning to fight for Israel and yet it is Israel who has already (in the past) pierced this messiah.
all what you have to do is think! the jewish people are bound by a covenant of obedience to the 613 commanments,the gentiles will not be punished for not keeping the shabbat or for not eating Kosher,the gentiles were not the witneses of the truth given at mount sinai so they will never be called to judgement for those violations. we see that even in the case of one violation the jewish nation is punished see below:
"1 But the children of Israel committed a trespass concerning the devoted thing; for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the devoted thing; and the anger of the LORD was kindled against the children of Israel." we see that although ONLY ONE person took what was not permited G-d is angered at the entire jewish nation is punished as a whole. the jewish people are G-d chosen people and that means something!!!!USE YOUR HEAD!
1) Isaiah 53 says that the person was stricken for our transgressions, not stricken for his transgressions.
2) The person in Isaiah 53 is differentiated from Israel whenever it says something like suffering dying for my people.
3) In reference to seed, it said he will see seed, not see his seed. If requested, I can give more details on seed and why it can mean spiritual seed.
Sorry, I meant to say my final 4 points. The character count on Youtube messes things up sometimes.
My 4th point is that Israel has never died (cut off from the land of the living) yet the person in Isaiah 53 does indeed die and therefore get cut off from the land of the living.
If Israel is so good and righteous, then why has Israel gone through such horrible things in the last 2,000 years and beyond and still has no real peace today. Is it because Israel has yet to accept Yeshua.
"If Israel is so good and righteous, then why has Israel gone through such horrible things in the last 2,000 years?"
The jewish people went thru horrible things since its begining,slavery in egypt and persecution from neighbors,That is why Isaiah 53 says:3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not." jesus followers did the killing 6mil as did all enemies of Israel,THINK!
your religion stole some principals from the jews and that if fine as long as you keep them and grow with them but insted you used them to kill and divide yourselves still till today,you forced your jesus on the jews at gun point but did not succeed! then because we prevailed over your romanized religion of human god out of our deep love faith and loyalty to the real G-d,you now atempt to convert us by deceit and ignorance! there is no other G-d but the G-d of Israel, not some jesus! you repent!
1) Who is speaking in Isaiah 53? Isaiah. Who are Isaiah's people? Israel. Not the goyim (nations). Isaiah is saying somebody was stricken for 'our (Israel)' transgressions, not 'your (goyim)' transgressions. In verse 8, Isaiah says this person was cut off because of the transgression of 'my' people. Again, 'my people' of Isaiah is not the goyim but Israel. Israel is Isaiah's people.
3) The person in Isaiah 53 was to have no physical seed as he was cut off (verse 8). The seed is spiritual for saved souls.
By being plural at his death, it could be that he died with two others, one that mocked him and one that believed him. With the rich in his death could mean Joseph who was a rich man who was allowed to have Yeshua's body and buried him.
Prolong his days would be when Jesus rose a few days later from his grave.
3)the reward for the servant will be "shall see his seed and prolong its days"millions of jews were killed for the loyalty to the only G-d. jews were always being cut off from the land on the living but G-d did not allow them to be destroyed as a nation. that is why the reward will be:" I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death," because they were willing to die for G-d as jews did they will be rewarded,read again!
Isaiah 53:8 is clear that he would be "cut off from the land of the living." If it was Israel, it could not say this. It would have to say something to nearly that effect, but not that far. Or that 'many' would be 'cut off.' This 'many' would be the several million Jews that would be killed. But some would live.
However, this servant, whether individual or many, would have to be cut off/die/destroyed. That's why it says 'no one can speak of his (physical) descendants,' because he has none.
I have pointed out that it clearly says " TO THEM" in plural and not "to him" in singular. so is not possible that is reffering to just one person. jews die in the millions because of our loyalty to G-d,so being cut off from the living is totally part of the prophesy. there is a problem with your inability to read and know Hebrew. In Hebrew is very precise by saying "to them" מִפֶּשַׁע עַמִּי נֶגַע לָמוֹ. "becuase of the sins of my people injury was given TO THEM"... admit it servant is Israel!
It has nothing to do with my inability to read Hewbrew. Who are the 'my people?' If it was the nations, it would be 'our' people (just as the word 'we' is often used throughout Isaiah 53). This 'my people' is a single nation and Israel is that nation. The 'injury to them' or as David Ben Shamayim translated, a stroke to them.
What is this injury or stroke? It could be that the Messiah, who is to restore Israel, was killed and taken out of the land of the living because of Israel's sin.
kings are talking!: "So he shall startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them they shall see, and that which they had not heard they shall contemplate.....
53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?."This verse introduces the narrative of the shock that the gentile kings of nations will be proclaiming at the dawn of the Messianic era, when the Jewish people are vindicated.
The sin could be that Israel did not acept this Messiah just as Isaiah wrote. This Messiah was dying for the sins but Israel didn't accept this Messiah (servant).
Remember, Zechariah said that a conquering Lord who will restore Israel was once (past tense) pierced by Israel as Israel will 'look upon him who they have pierced and mourn for him.' This pierced one could be the servant in Isaiah 53 and Yeshua could be that servant.
Again, this is so important: Isaiah says the servant would be (completely) killed, not partially, hence why no generation or physical seed. This is the 'very word of G-d.'
The servant is also supposed to be silent. Never has Israel been silent when treated badly. They have always cried out and complain.
If the Jews are so good, where is their king?
The world is to be blessed through the Jewish people and indeed they have. Yeshua is a Jew who has brought salvation.
So, again, the seed he sees in Isaiah 53:10 is spiritual. According to verse 8, it can't be physical.
Isaiah 53:7 says the servant would be silent under the harsh conditions of Isaiah 53. Israel has never been silent when treated bad.
Back to verse 8: If it is the nations speaking, then the end of verse 8 should read: "For the transgression of 'our' people was he stricken." But by saying 'my,' it is only one nation. Israel (Isaiah's people) seem to be that nation.
"seed" means only phisical biological decendants in Hebrew. you want to force an alian concept to force jesus in Isaiah 53.
"Israel has never been silent when treated bad." that is anti-historical the jews were silenced for milleniums. jesus however was not silent acording to your own new testament acounts.Matthew 26:39 has Jesus praying to G-d to help him avoid his fate. While on the cross, Jesus cries out "why have you forsaken me?" .
Seed, or zerah, can mean more than biological descendants in Hebrew.
Zerah can mean offspring but it does not mean that exclusively. One notable aspect of this usage is the fact that the word can refer to future generations (Deuteronomy 28:46). So, Isaiah 53:10 would mean that the servant of the Lord would see future generations of his people serving the Lord.
Zerah can mean 'sowing' (Genesis 47:24). This is metaphorical as sowing does not mean 'literal descendants.'
the word vyiro zaro means and he shall see his seed,and that is in context with and will lenghten days in other words not only will see children but will also survive it all! that has been the history of the jewish people.deut 28;46 is reffering also to biological decendants of the jewish people. in genesis 47 it makes it clear that is talking about planting a field. Isaiah is more than clear in saying "HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED" so lets cut the bolonie....
Simply, Zerah does not always mean literal descendants. You said it yourself from Genesis 47, that it means planting a field. That's not literal descendants. There are more examples if needed.
I agree, Isaiah is saying he will see his seed but it does not have to be physical. The servant is to die in V.8 then resurrected V.10. Israel has never died, they've been dispersed but always survived. You agree to that. Israel isn't sinless V.9. See also Isaiah 1:2-4.
Zerah occasionally means 'semen' (Leviticus 15:16). This is metaphorical as semen does not mean 'literal (or biological) descendants.'
As for the silence, they may have been out of fear perhaps, but they often have complained, something the servant in Isaiah 53 was not to do. Nor was the servant to have sin, something Israel has.
Remember, when Israel was dispersed, it was because of 'their' own sins, not the sins of the world.
52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah,Isa.41:8-9;44:1-2; 45:4;48:20;49:3) Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God, as in Isa. 53:4) 53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them."Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear,that the oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual.
I must ask, in your quote of Isahiah 53:8, "From my peoples' sin, there was injury to them." From where did you quote this from, the Targum? I have never read an actual Bible with this translation. I know the Targum says something to this effect.
The Targum also mentions the Messiah, the person (Targum Isaiah 52:13-53). It sometimes does read that the Messiah is the one that has the burden of Israel's sins such as in verses 4-6 and even the end of verse 8.
The targum on Isaiah 53:5 reads "But he shall build the temple that was polluted because of our transgressions." To my understanding, this must be the Messiah as no one else was to build the temple according to Jewish religious tradition, but the Messiah.
I can give you other old Jewish sources that say Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah. So far, I have given 2.
I only mention these sources to show that some Jewish rabbis see/saw a messiah in Isaiah 53.
You mention Isaiah 53:8 like this: "From my peoples sin, there was injury to them." You then go on to say "Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear...."
The point here is you agree it is the prophet speaking since he's making it 'clear.' What he's making clear is the 'my people,' that it is his people's (Israel's) sin, not the nations sins. So, V.5: "He was pierced for our transgressions," that is, pierced for me and my people, Israel. The V8 "injury to them" was on Messiah (Yeshua) V.5
NOT so! the Gentiles are reacting and are the ones talking on Isaiah 53! "the sins of my people" is reffering at kings that will say that they did not esteemed Israel the servant of G-d. I pointed that earlier Isaiah scriptures did not have chapters the last verse of Isaiah 52 ends "15 So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive. now continue reading....
are you inplying tha the death of two thiefs were also the expiation of sin without cause? in other words we should include them as part of the sacrifice? so now we have three messiahs we should worship...desperate atempt to distord the scriptures.
this is a desperate atempt to push jesus again on Isaiah 53......either those deaths in plural were all the sacrifice together or is talking about the deaths of others...it is clear that is the DEATHS in plural that has broght the expiation......so either those three were the expiation (is abusurd since they were criminals)
(continued)The Second Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans under General Titus many years after Yeshua (JESUS) was crucified, resurrected and ascended in fulfillment of that prophecy.
another stupid comment! the messiah will only be messiah when he acomplishes his purpose. it is easy to talk about destructions and "going to heaven"(something contradicted in the new testament by various accounts). The messiah we are waiting would change the world and construct the temple. THAS HAS NOT HAPPENED!!!
keliata=You and violinistapr are definitely and absolutely wrong. Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah, wether you believe it or not and wether you like it or not. Read Daniel 9:24-27, it speaks about the appointed time of the Messiah. He had to come, be rejected by the Jewish leadership, crucified, resurrect on the third day before the destruction of the Second Temple.
nonsence! the math dont add up! before you repeat stupidity,check the hebrew original. but in any case,why the "messiah" needs you to post on youtube that he is the messiah? for the jewish mind such ridiculous practice bring amusement. he was not the messiah because we would not be debating his mesianism if he was....
violinstapr=Who would say that Jews can't believe in Yeshua (JESUS)? It is ridiculous. The earliest followers and believers were all Jews, the founding apostles were all Jews, the earliest missionaries were Jews and the earliest congregations were entirely Jewish.
violinstapr=HaShem is not just the God of Israel, he is the God of all mankind. He has called Israel to be a light to the whole world (Isaiah 49:6 and Isaiah 42:6) to reveal God to everyone and has brought the whole world both Jew and Gentile to know and worship the God of Israel, the promises made in Genesis 12:1-3 has been fulfilled. Yeshua is the most influential Jew in all of history, he is clearly the Jewish Messiah.
violinstapr=Yeshua is Jewish but he was never paganized by the Romans and Greeks. If you think that he was paganized by the Romans and Greeks you are mistaken.
violinistapr=Yeshua the Jewish Messiah came 2000 years ago. Jews who lived in the land of Israel during the 1st century A.D. have encountered the Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth. He is now sitting at the right hand of HaShem and he will come again according to the Hebrew Scriptures (Daniel 7:13-14 and Zechariah 12:10).
unlike you, I read the scriptures since my ealy age in Hebrew. Have you any idea how a jew feels when some ignorant person is traying to corrupt his own scirptures.Jewish Messiah? who crowned him Messiah of the jews except pagan gentiles? you talk about 2000 years ago..here we are..you telling me that he was......2000 later! BUH!!! you have any idea of what those 2000 year meant to our jewish people?
violinistapr=He is the Messiah wether if you believe it or not. The Jewish pseudo-messiahs were Bar Kochba and Sabattai Zevi. If you reject the promised Messiah of Israel and Savior of the World you will be condemned to eternity in the lake of fire.
Knigh,the messiah we jews are waiting is coming to bring good to the world especially his people the jewish people.Bar and sabbatai are in par with jesus except that in jesus name millions of people have been killed, persecuted, and divided.Jesus was the savior of no one not even himself.when the real messiah come all will believe in him since is written:" 33 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me,"
Absolutely right, Violini. Jesus (may his name be blotted out) was neither g-d or messiah. He didn't meet the criteria to be messiah (return Jews to Israel, rebuild the temple, usher in an era of peace) and the concept of a trinity and even hell is not consistent at all with Judaism.
Although I think Yeshua (jesus is a false name given to the messiah) was/is the messiah, I agree that the popular concepts of trinity and hell are false and warped. btw, I am not christian, I am messianic.
Yes, Yeshua is Jesus' actual Hebrew name, but Jesus is not false, many messianics accept it even though they use Yeshua themselves. Yeshua is the most accurate name, however.
By the very definition of the word christian, you are one, but in terms of your worship, you are messianic. My worship, although I am a gentile, is more messianic now as I look to worship as they did in the beginning, which is the most proper and Biblical way and also is a Jewish way.
Yeshua is the real and true Jewish Moshiach foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. The Torah has many prophecies that describes the real and true Messiah and they point to Yeshua. The Jewish pseudo-messiahs were Bar Kochba and Sabbatai Zevi.
christians learned theis deceitful tactics, form Paul, he shamelessly proclaimed: "If through my lie God's truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?" (Romans 3:7)
we don't have to twist them, history will verify that pauline doctrine was to stay away from the commandement of G-d, he lied by his own admition and corrupted verses from the original bible. Thomas Jefferson called Paul "the great corruptor". Real jews don't believe in jesus,jews believe in ONE invisible G-d that is not limited by death or time or space he does not have a son in a literal sence G-d does not feel hunger or thirst he is not bound by human limitations. man god is a pagan concept!!
They are by no means a "legitimate branch of Judaism". They are Christians. Half of them were never Jewish to begin with, they are posing as "messianic Jew" to lure in Jews who are Biblicly illiterate.
They are the same as "Jews for Jesus" and "Hebrew Christians". All of these organizations are funded by one of the Christian churches. Mainly Baptists. Many Protestants have condemned the Baptists for their deceitful tactics. They use deceitful and immoral tactics.
half of them? 90% of them!!! in latin amarica they have a trick! they tell former pentecostals and catholic gentiles that they decendants from "spanish jews"and this uncircunsize gentiles from generations of gentiles can now call themselve "jewish" and be counted as jews by the false messanic movement, they learn a few Hebrew words change their names to hebrew sounding names put on a Talit make the church look like a synagogue an lo a behold! now they call themeselves "perfected jews"incredible
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
watch messianic movement on youtube
nielsqbc4 8 months ago
Real Jews believe in the Lord Jesus as their only Savior !
wonderfulsavior1 10 months ago
Interesting vid. Thanks for posting. Messianic movement just getting going in the UK. I'm going to my first service soon. Love the Jewish people.
22Yeller 1 year ago
Yeshua means Yeshu at Adonai salvation of the LORD is in hIS NAME-whosoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved ¨! Joel 2 v 32
sharvagh2 1 year ago
the bible says his name was emanuel, first in prophesy, and later we see him called easu,yeshua,yashua,and jesus. But I'm sure if you look at the time, you would find that every one of those names meanings are the same. And that they describe the anoited. There is many college level deceptions about jesus. this is done on purpose. just look who the founders are of those ivy league schools. the only real truth is revealed in "Daniels Timeline" on here. watch it, learn it, teach it, & expect it.
2skullscrushing 1 year ago
Thank you for this video. Man, I wish I had a Messianic congregation in town where I could get to. You dont know how much you are blessed.
elainescolors 2 years ago
what is it with you guys? Do ya' think you'll get 10 extra brownie points for converting one of us? My people (Sephardis from Spain) preferred to be buned at the stake during the inquisistion, than be baptised against their will, so what's up with you? Don't you get it? Anyone with a real Hebrew school and relegious education is sooooo not interested in converting, knock it off, it is so annoying, and you are so totally wasteing your time. BTW, your Hebrew is horrible, made me cringe!
hebrewschoolgrad 2 years ago
Hi Mr Cringe
How are you doing ? thanks for your comment, so nice of you , I will keep you in my prayer.
Yasuwa yabarech otcha.
AngelGabrael 2 years ago 6
Yes, my brother she definetely needs prayer, I agree with you for her salvation b'Shem shel Yeshua HaMashiach!
Yeshua Yevarech otach!
Bessie, (achot)
vasilikiyannos 2 years ago 3
@AngelGabrael I am now jewish. I am Christian but I love and support the Jewish people very much. You are so awsome!
Godskid2009 1 year ago
@AngelGabrael - Jesus bless you.
swordofmuhammed 1 year ago
@heb.
Why don't you go to your orthodox site then and leave us to worship with the other 2 billion people.
As for some of the orthodox in Israel they re no more than common thugs.
hotshotcarolan 2 years ago
hebrewschoolgrad,
Care to explain Isaiah 53 to us?
I didn't think so.
ArticleTen 2 years ago 3
@hebrewschoolgrad I speak of a Sephardi whose family was kicked out of Spain, Yeshua is who he said he was! Roman Catholics are not Christians, they are the ones who do evil in the name of Our King!
MenechemShaul 1 year ago 3
I Am a Messianic Jew from Israel - Thank you for your love and prayers and support!!!
WWWoneforisraelORG 2 years ago 17
Please, upload more songs/videos like this.
They are wonderful!.
crispma 2 years ago 2
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Over the years we have all been lied to by many false Religous Leaders and so called prophets. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false leaders. If you are a truth seeker please visit the web site which is displayed in our user name and take the time to read some of the articles... You will be very shocked.
There is a great audio there for you to listen to. You will come away asking many questions.
Blessings
Thanks Ben
2besavedcom 2 years ago
GOOD DAEWOO888 The salvation of YHWH
ALELUYA. SHALOM , HAVE A VERY HAPPY SHABAT
gisellita2008 2 years ago 2
Wonderful! Thank you!
CautiousSaint 2 years ago
So basically if you are Jewish, God is only interested in you? What about the rest of the world. I find it hard to understand how you can read the Torah and deny the Messiah.
Kedorlaomerist 2 years ago
Is the clarinet a normal component of messanic music? It has always been my favorite and love to hear it in your songs. This music is so lively, joyful and very pleasing to the Lord - moreso than most common, modern day & widely accepted worship or secular music that is geared towards honoring man & not G-d. Old is most often better in the case of music - in my little opinion.
MorganJServices 3 years ago
since it became mesy all the postings.
I will say that it is no posible that Isaiah 53 is refering to jesus. in any case here we are 2000 years after jesus debating if he was the messiah..when the real mesiah will come every one will know it! that is the point of the mesianic prophesies.
violinistapr 3 years ago
Yes, Youtube is hard to put in a decent argument with it's limited use of words.
I will also say that if it is impossible for Yeshua to be the fulfillment of Isaiah 53, then so too is it with Israel.
You see, Zechariah says that the Messiah who will 'be known' when he comes will also have been pierced by the Jewish people. This means he has already come previous to Zechariah words. Even some rabbinic thought said if Israel is not worthy, then Messiah will come lowly, not high and exalted.
manchristmas 3 years ago
That is a ridiculuos statement! The servant is identified as Israel in all Isaiah, there is not one mention of a jesus or of a son of god or of anybudy else as the servant. Isaiah 53 is talking about the reaction of the nations when they realise that they persecuted a blessed and holy people. for the reason deaths is in plural and injury is in plural. as the prophet says despite all that He shall see his seed and prolong his days! that prophesy has been fulfiled in Israel the servant of G-d!
violinistapr 3 years ago
may I request from you to have respect for our holy Rabbis? DO NOT use their teachings to push your jesus on us!! that is called a sacrilege,a blatant usurpation and distortion!those holy Rabbis knew well Isaiah 53 and they more that anybudy else wanted the messiah to come yet they knew that jesus could not have been the messiah.keep your arguements christian and I will keep my arguements jewish,jesus is not the messiah that is why you are here debating that he was,why he needs you to tell us?
violinistapr 3 years ago
You've been misunderstanding my argument the whole time then...... or you've been understanding it correctly but have trouble with it since it relates more to Yeshua than Israel.
I must inform you that true christianity is actually Jewish. You don't see it in the Churches of today to the most part because of their ignorance, but it is Jewish. Yeshua and his apostles were Jewish, continued to be Jewish, kept the Sabbath, etc..... So this is a Jewish debate. I'm sorry if you don't see this.
manchristmas 3 years ago
This statement is as untruthful as it could be:
"I must inform you that true christianity is actually Jewish"
Judaism is the belives of the jewish people in a covenant to keep the 613 commanments found is the Torah, decendants of Abraham uninterrupted till today. chistianity started with renegade jews that changed their jewish names for Romans ones (Paul from shaul)to accept a pagan religion. NEVER EVER did they kept the laws of judaism instead they told the jews to abandom it by force!ABSURD!
violinistapr 3 years ago
don't reinvent history! christians never circuncized, never kept the shabbat instead they persecuted those who did! the followers of your jesus were nothing less than ignorant pagan people that never read the bible and killed, robed,lived inmoral lives...the scars of the legacy of christianity is still evident even today! you NOW speak about judaism because the SERVANT of G-d the people of Israel has prevailed in keeping the laws of G-d and waiting for the real messiah! jesus was a fraud!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Don't reinvent history? History teaches us that there would be a new covenant that would not be like the one from Moses (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
Then read Daniel 9:24-26. The timing of the Messiah would have to come BEFORE the destruction of the 2nd temple. It says that "Messiah would be CUT OFF, but NOT FOR HIMSELF" which means for others. Yes, Messiah would die. Daniel 9:24 tells us that final atonement, end of sin, and eternal righteousness would come.
Now, think about Isaiah 53 and Yeshua.
manchristmas 3 years ago
do not be absurd! did you ever put atention at what you read? or you just repeat like a christian parrot? Jeremiah 31 says " I will put My TORAH in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it"and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more." DID THAT HAPPENED????
violinistapr 3 years ago
Jeremiah 31 is clearly describing a non-written Torah, one that will be in the inward parts of man, spiritual. Jeremiah 31 clearly says THE NEW COVENANT WILL NOT BE THE OLD 'TORAH' ONE.
Yes, the sins will not be rememebred anymore providing you accept the one who died for your sins, Yeshua. If you don't want to accept him, then you don't want atonement.
But final atonement and end of sin HAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE the 2nd temple was destroyed (again, Daniel 9:24-26).
manchristmas 3 years ago
this can only be said by the totally ignorant!
the word "Toroti" means "MY TORAH" in every single case it means the covenant accepted at mount sinai by the jewish people. What the prophet is saying is that at that time there will be no more disobedience of HIS TORAH because every one will have it in their heart and in their beings that is ther reason that it will be no longer nesesary to teach because ALL WILL KNOW ME!!! that has not happened yet so it is premature to speak about jeremiah 31!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Jeremiah 31, as according to Isaiah 53 (which you now ignore because your Rabbinic sources confirm the MESSIAH - remember, these Rabbis didn't accept Yeshua because IS. 53 said they {Israel as a nation} wouldn't, though many Jews and even some Rabbis have through time). Since Yeshua died for the sins of Israel and all people, the torah law would not be the same. Temple sacrifices are no longer needed for one example. Jeremiah 31 has begun, it's complete fulfillment awaits.
manchristmas 3 years ago
are you kidding?Isaiah 53 reffer to the jewish nation that I already proved many times,I said that the interpretation of the rabbis include the messiah in it because the messiah is also a jew.There will be a reconstruction of a third temple! Ezequiel, Isaiah,jeremiah, indeed ALL the prophets clearly said that the Torah is eternal:"24 And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them."
violinistapr 3 years ago
you christians never kept the laws of G-d! changed for sunday the shabbat, believe in human god,even contradicted the one G-d for a trinity,and have the odacity to ignore all the prophesies about the continuty of The Torah because in your ignorance and with the help of an apostate like paul considered G-ds law a curse!!!! that blasphemy is what makes christianity a false religion to the core! repent!!!
violinistapr 3 years ago
I should repent? Does Isaiah not speak of Israel as being evil? Does Isaiah not say that the Messiah is to die for Israel's sin (again, your Rabbinic sources say so), Does Is. 9:6 not say that a PERSON born will be called MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Do the scriptures not declare that only God is a savior. If so, then Messiah, who is savior, must be deity.
I agree, the Church has done some wrong things to torah like the Sabbath. This doesn't mean all the Church is bad.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Here again you can't read! Isaiah was a jewish prophet speaking to the jewish people NOT to the gentiles! The jews being part of a covenant with G-d are critizise more than the gentiles much the same than a soldier is more diciplined than a civilian. No gentile will be held acountable for not keeping shabbat or for not eating Kosher since that was not accepted by them.For that reason the servant of G-d the jewish nation is acused more than the pagan gentiles,but we all know that Israel is holy!
violinistapr 3 years ago
and again! the name of G-d in a persons name never meant that that person is G-d Eliah means "He is my G-d" Obadiah means "servant of G-d" Elimelech means "my G-d is King" Rachamiel means "merciful G-d" Michael means "who is like G-d" so you in your pagan tradition conlude that the messiah who is supposed to be a grandson of king David is a human god that walk the streets of jerusalem. IT IS PAGAN AND IGNORANT!
violinistapr 3 years ago
The only IGNORANT thing is your self-righteous attitude and your view of the Holy scriptures in conjunction with your rabbinic writings. I say this in a peaceful way, however. I hope you can understand.
Isaiah 9:6 is clear that the names would refer to the person who has these names rather than a type of reference to God the Father ONLY that your examples show. So, this person of Isaiah 9:6 would in fact be the Mighty God and Everlasting Father.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Israel is only holy because of God's doing. God said it was for his name's sake and not for anything that the Jewish nation has done on their own. So, how can you say I cannot read when your own Jewish scriptures declare what I say, that Israel is often a very evil nation and Israel is only preserved because of God's doing, for his (God's) glory!
As for the torah, christians say they keep the 10 commandements yet don't keep the sabbath. Not all torah is for gentiles, though.
manchristmas 3 years ago
No. Your Rabbinic sources said the SERVANT is the Messiah, not Israel. I can provide the sources again. You are tampering with what they said now because you say you're a Jew so you must know. The one dying in Isaiah 53 is the Messiah according to their exact words, not the Messiah as part of Israel. Show me old sources that claim what you just told me. If you can't, then the servant remains Messiah.
manchristmas 3 years ago
you can't understand Rabbinical writings! the rabbis all knew that Isaiah 53 reffers to all of Israel,the contra celsum of your own Christian writings 800 years before those comentaries proclaimed that the jews said it refer to the whole jewish people. you have to have a jewish mind to understand jewish writings that is the reason for all this mistakes.
violinistapr 3 years ago
This is your most IGNORANT post to date. There is a Rabbi who says that Jews today are ignorant of the Rabbinic writings when modern day Jews say Isaiah 53 refers to Israel. This Rabbi says modern day Jews are not keeping true to the teachings of the ancient Rabbis. Your ancient Rabbis UNDERSTOOD that there was a Messiah who is to be a part of Israel (Jewish) yet he would be an INDIVIDUAL DISTINCT from the whole nation. Your Rabbis saw the King Messiah in Isaiah 53, not Israel.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2: You say I can't understand Rabbinic writings but indeed I have (with the rabbi I mentioned in another post on modern day rabbinic thought). You are just afraid that the Rabbinic writings coupled with the Holy scriptures actually teach Yeshua and that's why you don't counter my scriptures I used. You know that if Isaiah 53 is really talking about the Messiah, then it really could be Yeshua. Funny that you use a Christian source to back up your claim but you can't find any Jewsih sources.
manchristmas 3 years ago
it is amaizing how you put words that the prophet did not say! the miracle of jeremiah 31 is that the jewish people all will return to G-d and that they will keep the Torah for ever! there is no mention of a jesus or a condition of accepting him....or anyone else! is amazin how you believe in christianity when you can't even transalate or anilize what you are reading! with time later I will awnser you about Daniel first get a good transalation!
violinistapr 3 years ago
If you insist Daniel means PRINCE, fine. Yeshua is called the PRINCE OF PEACE (Isaiah 9:6). Yeshua is also called MIGHTY GOD in this verse. God is sometimes identified as mighty rather than almighty (Is. 10:21). This verse also calls Yeshua EVERLASTING FATHER. Since this verse is detailing the birth of a child and these titles will be given to him, this is referring to an individual and not Israel. Israel has never been called mighty God or any of the other titles. Isaiah does speak of Yeshua.
manchristmas 3 years ago
That is another assesination of the scriptures! Isaiah 9:6 is reffering to Hezequia King of Judah,Hezequia means "power of G-d", it is normal por jewish names to have the names of G-d in them. you first decide that ir reffer to jesus when even a blind person can see that is reffering to Hezequia since it clearly says : "a child has been born" NOT "a child will be born" jesus was born 700 years later..in other words LEARN TO READ BEFORE YOU CONCLUDE!!!!!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Hezequia? And you're tellingme I'm assassinating the scriptures? Where does Isaiah 9:6 say it was Hezequia? Is Hezequia from EVERLASTING? Has Hezequia rigned on David's throne forever (Daniel 9:7)? Verse 6 begins as if present but ends as if future. "He WILL be called...." Nobody at that present time (700 years before Yeshua) was ever born that could have all these titles and be reigning forever on David's throne. This is speaking of a fuure fulfillment.
manchristmas 3 years ago
here again pay atention to the whole chapter! jesus was a prince of peace? did he not say: "I bring not peace but a sword" ,everlasting? he live to 33! Hezquia has the names because of what happened to him. as I said before names of G-d in jews is normal for example abashalom or absalom that it means "father of peace" or Ezequiel that means power of G-d,those names does not mean that they are G-d! so take that idea from your christian mind!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Do you understand the quote "I bring not peace but a sword?" Do you even know what Jesus was referring to? Yes, Jesus is everlasting. He rose from the dead. His body has never been found just like Moses' body. He had to die Isaiah 53 and had to be pierced Zechariah 12:10.
Hezquia is not everlasting so he can't fulfill the scripture.
Question: Why do you accept some people like Hezquia when he is not mentioned in the Tanach but refuse to accept Yeshua who, as you say, is not in the Tanach?
manchristmas 3 years ago 2
God is not a name! God is from GAD His name is YAH, and he came in his fathers name Yahushua Yah is salvation John 5:43 Yeshua is a result of vowel pointing of incorrect vowel pointing to try to force everyone to say Adonai rather than the name. His name never was god or jesus!!!!
1daewoo888 2 years ago
His name was never YAH either. But the meaning we put into GOD is respectable to his very nature as is the name Jesus. I would still say, though, that Yeshua or other (Hebrew) ways that it is spelled would be more accurate or true to what Jesus was called back in his day during his ministry.
manchristmas 1 year ago
really? I suggest you discontinue using HalelluYah in your worship then ( praise you YAH ) considering the J didn't exist until 925 ad your Mithras god Jesus would not be possible. Also yeshua jesus whatever you wish to call him, geneology is through the cursed king jenociah
1daewoo888 1 year ago
@1daewoo888
Oh,I can use YAH if I want. However, it is not his NAME (as you had wrongly said) but rather, as another poster said, YHWH is his name. Or it may be JHVH.
manchristmas 1 year ago
No, that's not his name but it is used for reverence because his name is Holy and we must not take His Name as any other name, His name is YHWH, but we don't refer to Him like that since we have that reverence to his name which is Holy, we'd rather call HIm Adonai, Hashem, Elohim, depending on in what aspect of G-d we are talking about.
lupekary 1 year ago
it is incredibly stupid to try to teach a jew that knows perfect Hebrew the meaning of a prophesy from a terribly ignorant transalation! Daniel does not say the messiah it says "an anoited prince" he will be cut off (koret) because of his sins and it does not say "not for himself" it says "and he will have nothing" before you have the odacity to teach a jew to read his own scriptures PLEASE Transalate it correctly!! Daniel is talking about an evil prince. Alexander Yanai that was anointed!
violinistapr 3 years ago
I'll recheck Daniel (translation since I don't speak Hewbrew) but still, what then do you say about the END OF TRANSGRESSION (SIN), THE EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND ESPECIALLY THE FINAL ATONEMENT OF DANIEL 9:24-26. This all HAD to be completed before the destruction of the 2nd temple.
And let's go back to Isaiah 53 since you seem to be hiding from that: Your Rabbinic sources do teach the Messiah, not Israel. You teach Israel. Who is right and who is wrong?
manchristmas 3 years ago
Daniel 9:24-26 talks about an anointed one which can indeed mean a Messiah. The Hebrew word can mean that. It DOES NOT say he would be cut off for HIS sins as you said nor does it say he would be cut off for others (which I originally said because of a weak translation). Where does scripture say Yanai was that anointed one? From V.27 of Daniel, did Yanai ever make a 7 year covenant with many and do something half way through? And Yeshua had NOTHING, especially in his last 3 years of his life.
manchristmas 3 years ago
dis you noticed how your christian bible erroneusly transalated your bible? that was done to push jesus in it! that is christiany a deception and a fraud of history. virgin birth,the prophesies,jeremiah 31, isaiah 53,etc etc all mistransalated or taken out of context to push jesus in them. that alone should meke people reconsider christinity! to that add the terrible history that they left....
violinistapr 3 years ago
Very odd. For example, you're saying that christianity is using Isaiah 53 as deception yet your Rabbinic sources TOTALLY DISAGREE with you on the servant in Is. 53 and you refuse to consider this? Why? Because Isaiah 53 is talking about the Messiah, the Prince of Peace from Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Daniel 9:25 who brings the final atonement in Dn. 9:24 (coupled with Is. 53), all before the destruction of the 2nd temple in Dn. 9:26, who is the PIERCED Lord of Zch. 12:9-10 who is MOURNED for.
manchristmas 3 years ago
for once this deeper!
violinistapr 3 years ago
The curse is because of what happens when one disobeys the law. It means death and atonement is needed. However, don't be misleading for Paul also said the law is holy and good and that he (Paul) delights in God's law.
manchristmas 3 years ago
what a stupid comment! you do not obey the laws of G-d! so you are the cursed one! the Torah does not say that a siner is cursed,it says that the one that does not believe that it is the law of G-d is cursed! inside the lews of G-d is the great oportunity of repentace that in many cases did not need a sacrifices. we already knew that G-d will accept verbal offerings when the temple was destroyed.The law of G-d is a blessing! do you think that G-d gave laws to be able to curse us??? STUPID!
violinistapr 3 years ago
And how has Israel kept the laws? If they did, would Messiah not have come by now?
Israel is still like other nations.
Think abortion. Chief Rabbis of Israel ruled that abortion is a GRAVE SIN and that it is delaying the coming of the Messiah. They base it on Genesis 6:9. There's also another scripture that says God knows you in your mother's womb.
Israel performs 50,000 abortions yearly, only 20,000 of those legally.
Sorry, but the Jewish people are not as righteous as you think.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Israel is the jewish people loyal to G-d,the ones that keep the Torah, that is the remnant that has been loyal to G-d despite everything.
those questions are more for you than for me! I know that the messiah has not come because Jeremiah said that there will be no more disobedience to the Torah when he will come THAT IS THE REASON FOR HIS COMING!as long that there is one jew that does not keep Torah we will know that the messiah has not come!but for you? 2000 years of more evil, where is jesus?
violinistapr 3 years ago
Are you saying that one day every Jew will keep Torah and only then Messiah will come? Because scripture declares that ALL sin. Isaiah says that you (the Jews) have tried to make yourselves right with God by your deeds (keeping the Torah) yet God says these deeds are like filthy rags. Remember, Messiah had to come BEFORE the destruction of the 2nd temple. As for evil in the world, don't blame Jesus. He didn't do it. Just because many claim to be christian doesn't mean they are.
manchristmas 3 years ago
I wrote elsewhere about the new covenant of Jeremiah 31 that probably has ties with Daniel 9:24-26.
The law was still taught by Yeshua and his followers including Paul. Yeshua said he did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it. Paul said that the law is good and he would not know what sin was if it weren't for the law.
Yeshua simply brought the fullest understanding of the law (the final atonement, for example) and the spiritual aspect of it all (Jeremiah 31:33 - law in mind/hearts).
manchristmas 3 years ago
for once be honest! the followers of jesus NEVER Kept the Torah! stupid Paul the apostate jew said: "unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews" that is the same doctrine you dare aply now! spiritual deception to convert others even using Rabinical statements.jesus brought evil, more people has been killed in his name than any other man,specially the jewish people! here you are traying to make him the messiah because he is dead and only left 8276638 branches of christanity.
violinistapr 3 years ago
Yeshua arose and is alive according to the New Coveneant scriptures. So, you are wrong in him being dead. You show much ignorance in my talks with you. I reach you in this Jewish manner because I REALLY do believe true christianity is Jewish. Plus, you are Jew, yes? If so, then of course I will use Jewish sources with you since you (and not gentiles) will understand these Jewish sources. Paul said in the New Coveneant that he IS a Pharisee, not WAS one. Paul showed he remained a Jew.
manchristmas 3 years ago
yes I'm a jew, and a loyal one! Paul was a apostate that abandoned the Torah was a Roman citizen changed his jewish name for a Roman one and his seed was lost amoung the gentiles. there was never a christian or messianic teaching to keep the Torah until recently in the late 20 century only because WE LOYAL JEWS resisted your persecutions and lies. you now rob some jewish writings to try to convert us to your idolatry. it is YOU the gentiles that will come to the jews not the other way around.
violinistapr 3 years ago
Paul was a Jew and claimed it. He NEVER said he was a gentile. Paul kept the torah, the New Covenant scripture shows this.
You say you're a good Jew. Isaiah says your deeds are like filthy rags. Ez. 20:44 says he will deal with you in this time for HIS NAME'S SAKE and not because all the Jews, as you say, become good.
The Jews have already gone to the gentiles. Yeshua's Jewish disciples took his salvation to the gentiles. One day, a complete fulfillment when Israel is capital of world.
manchristmas 3 years ago
part 2:
Even in a talmudic portion it is written concerning the timing of the Messianic age (probably due to Daniel 9:24-26):
"The school of Elijah taught: The world is to be for six thousand years; two thousand years empty without Torah; two thousand years with Torah; and two thousand years Messianic Times..." Midrash Rabbah Gen. 98:3
I use this point only to show that some Rabbis saw a change with the law within the Messianic times (so Yeshua's approach to the law may be appropriate).
manchristmas 3 years ago
here again! change of the law?? this is what the Rabbis said: 2000 empty that is when abraham came,2000 is the prophetic age that ended with the prophet Malachi,and 2000 are the mesianic age that is the time on which the jews will prepare for the coming of the messiah which will be anytime inside those 2000 years, but since is evident that nothing has happened that signal that the messiah is here,WE are still waiting for him! you also are waiting because yours fail to do his real purpose!
violinistapr 3 years ago
If Messiah hasn't come, then he'll never come. Daniel 9:24-26 says that the Messiah's coming had to occur before the destruction of the second temple. And BEFORE the destruction of the second temple, the FINAL ATONEMENT HAD TO BE MADE. So, yes, something had to happen in the past, the one and only final atonement. I showed you where the King Messiah would HAVE to come lowly (unimpressive), riding on a donkey. Your Rabbinic source showed this also which I provided the source before.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2:
I mention your rabbinical sources not to try to tell you that these Rabbis accepted Yeshua. I know they didn't. The only 'point' is that many Rabbis don't take your view. They do not see Israel as the servant in Isaiah 53. Please don't miss what I'm trying to say.
These rabbinical sources confirm closer to Yeshua than Israel as they see a Messiah. I mean, one source I gave said Isaiah 53 was speaking of 'King Messiah,' the restorer of Israel yet here in Isaiah he is suffering.
manchristmas 3 years ago
you are traying to distord the words of our holy rabbis to force your jesus on me! That trick does not work! Im familiar with their teachings and know what they are saying. the point here is that jesus was not the messiah that is why those wise rabbis NEVER acepted hin as such...so why use them as evidence? they know how to read Isaiah 53 better that you and me, YET they knew it did not reffer to jesus!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Yes, these Rabbis knew Isaiah 53 and that's why they said it....
......referred to the King Messiah and NOT, I repeat, NOT Israel.
It may not be Yeshua according to them but it's also not Israel.
And since you said 'these Rabbis know Isaiah,' then you must agree that Israel is not the servant of Isaiah 53 since that's what they said.
Now, how am I trying to distort the words of these Rabbis? It was their own sources I gave you and the exact quote?
manchristmas 3 years ago
Servant can't be Israel. Servant sinless, Israel's not.
Where does scripture say that Israel would be an atonement for the world?
V8 is Isaiah speaking about "My people." If it was the nations, it would have to read 'Our people.' Isaiah's people are Israel. In your translation, it would mean Israel dying for Israel. Yet isn't the atonement supposed to be separate from the one who needs to atone for their sins?
Yeshua died with 2 others. Plural.
Seed can mean spiritual.
manchristmas 3 years ago
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My fellow Jews - reject the false Messiah and return to your true faith!
G-d spoke to us at Sinai and gave us the Torah. We don't need anything else!
If you wish to discuss authentic Torah Judaism with an observant Jew, feel free to get in touch via yahoo: stuartsigman.
Sh'ma Yisrael!!!
ssigman 3 years ago
part 3 of Isaiah 53...
As for the seed of Jesus, maybe the seed was the salvation of everybody who accepts Jesus.
We also know of a prophetic spiritual state that would one day come to Israel in Jeremiah where God said he would 'write the law on their hearts.'
It's also written that the Jews will one day look upon the messiah (the one they have pierced) and mourn for him. Who is this one that they have pierced and that they mourn for? Jesus sure would fit that role.
manchristmas 3 years ago
"seed of salvation"? why should salvation be called a seed? just because you want to force Isaiah 53 on jesus? the word seed means progenity,that the nation of Israel will continue to live on that is why the prophet said "shal see seed and have long days" NOTHING to do with "seed of salvation" is incredible how you will even creat alien concepts just to push jesus in any verse of the scriptures. he had no children, "his deaths" is in plural NOT singular because is talking about an entire nation!
violinistapr 3 years ago
And why are you trying to force Isaiah 53 on Israel?
Isaiah 53 clearly talks about one dying for 'my people' but not the 'people' themselves dying. Just as Isaiah 53 says that Israel would reject the one that is suffering and dying, Zechariah also details about the messiah whom 'they have pierced,' that is, the Jewish people have pierced. This Isaiah prophecy shows that the messiah who is returning has already been 'pierced' and rejected by Israel just as Zehariah states. Think about that!
manchristmas 3 years ago
Isaiah 52 ends as follow:15 So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive. isaiah continues 53:1'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?"this is the question that the nations will ask when they realise that Israel carried their sin because like you they though otherwise! "my servant" is Israel Isaiah says it!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Israel is a servant of God, yes, but so is messiah yeshua and so are individual people who serve the almighty. We must interpret what 'servant' is being talked about when a servant is mentioned in scripture.
Isaiah makes it clear that the servant in chapter 53 is not the nation of Israel itself. I have already shown that distinction in another response to you.
However, the nation of Israel has 'never' been said to carry the sins of the goyim. The individual in 53 does, though.
manchristmas 3 years ago
show me one time in Isaiah on which the name yeshua is used as a servat of G-d!!! Isaiah 53 is talking about the only servant that is mentioned throut all Isaiah that is the people of Israel, I have proven that is in plural on two ocasions...so admit it! Isaiah 53 reffers to Israel!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Show me where Isaiah 53 (and the end of Isaiah 52) says it is the nations talking. All it says is Kings will shut their mouths because of him. Nowhere do I read that it is suddenly the nations speaking. It always seems to be Isaiah.
If it is Isaiah spaeking, then it stands as I said before, there is somebody else dying for Israel's sins in chapter 53.
I can also add that many rabbis of old believed Isaiah 52 (at the end) and Isaiah 53 talked about messiah (Messiah Ben Yoseph).
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2 of my response to you:
The modern Jewish view of Messiah is not the 'traditional Jewish view.' The modern view sees only a Messiah as King, not servant. One example:
Rabbi Moshe Alshekh from the 16th century who lived in Sfat remarked:
"[Our] Rabbis with one voice, accept and affirm the opinion that the prophet is speaking of king Messiah."
The source is: Driver & Neubauer, Isaiah 53 According to Jewish Interpreters (Oxford 1899) (reprinted, KTAV)
manchristmas 3 years ago
The messiah being part of the jewish people is included in Isaiah 53,but we have seen that is in plural because we are talking about many jewish people for centuries.
in any case:The church father Origen reports that this was the Jewish understanding in his time, hundreds of years before Rashi. (Contra Celsum).
violinistapr 3 years ago
Origen may say that but show me rabbinic proof. Regardless, you're trying to get away from the point. The point being that many Jewish rabbis of the past saw a Messiah in Isaiah 53, that in fact, Isaiah 53 was talking about only the Messiah, not the Jewsish people. So, I (and other followers of Yeshua) are not alone in this thought. It is also a rabbinic Jewish thought.
manchristmas 3 years ago
man,those Rabbis would rether die one thousand deaths than to believe that jesus was the messiah! Never bring a witness that does not agree with your testimony! you cant use them as evidence when you know they knew it was not reffering to jesus. nice try!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Again, I know these Rabbis didn't accept Yeshua. They also don't accept Israel and I gave you the Rabbinical sources. So, if Yeshua isn't the servant that your Rabbis teach today concerning Isaiah 53, I can also say that Israel isn't the servant of Isaiah 53 as according to many of your Rabbis of the past.
So, where do you stand? Are the Rabbis of the past mistaken?
You also asked me not to talk about Rabbis like I'm disrespectful. Yet your comments here on Yeshua are very disrespectful.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2:
So, now you agree that the Messiah is 'part' of Isaiah 53. Good. At least you see that.
But I tell you as I did before, the Messiah 'is' the one talked about in Isaiah 53. Although I can agre that alot of Isaiah 53 could be fulfilled in Israel, certain verses show otherwise. I restate as I said before, the servant in 53 is to be without sin. I'm sorry but to this day, Israel is not sinless and this is from the word of God. Plus, the 'my people' in V.8 shows 1 person speaking.
manchristmas 3 years ago
here again you do the typical christian thing...read one verse ignore the begining and end of the chapter. the prophesy in jeremiah is reffering the the Torah the 613 commandemnt that will not be violated again
and no one will need to teach because "all will know me" THAT has not happened!!about the pierced one, read from the bigining of the chapter,is talking about a great war of all nations againts Israel,that did not happened in jesus times and the nation as a whole did not cried for him.
violinistapr 3 years ago
Yes, there is a great war that will occur with all nations against Israel. But it also tells of the messiah (who was pierced by Israel so one who is independent from the nation of Israel) who comes back to fight for Israel in a 'messiah Ben David' fashion if you understand me. That didn't happen back in Yeshua's time because that wasn't the time for those events to be fulfilled.
The messiah has already (in the past) been pierced when he returns so this must be a second coming.
manchristmas 3 years ago
again the christian thing...the shoe does not fit cinderella now but it will in the future in the "second coming"! the prophet clearly says :"In that day" SEVEN TIMES!!! not one thing today and then 2000 years later the other thing....is interesting to notice that all the prophesies that are real change and value christians resort to "the second coming"....
violinistapr 3 years ago
I believe we are talking about Zechariah 12:10 here (in which I'll add Zechariah 14:2-4).
'In that day' refers to a future event so the timing is insignificant.
Zechariah 14:2-4, it must be a future fulfillment as the Mount of Olives hasn't split yet (even today, 2008).
Plus, from Zechariah 12:10, with the already 'piercing' that this Lord has when he returns and is mourned for, shows a messiah individual for Israel.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Zechariah 12:9-10 and 14:2-4 are most likely describing the same war and event so the "look upon me whom they have pierced" fulfillment should occur at the same time as 'the splitting of the Mount Of Olives.'
Since the Mount Of Olives hasn't split yet, believers (christians) look for everything in both these Zechariah scriptures to happen sometime in the future.
It's also noteworthy to mention that there is a fault line at the Mount Of Olives where it is to split.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Isaiah 53 con't,......
What about the miracle of the 'root out of dry ground?' The virgin birth of Jesus can answer that.
_____________________________________________
Is it not possible that the messiah has two comings, something that some have overlooked. Isn't there a problem with people in the inside, the spiritual state? Doesn't the animal sacrifices only 'cover' sins? Before messiah comes to bring peace to Israel, maybe the messiah had to first bring peace spiritually.
manchristmas 3 years ago
"virgin birth"? did you read that and realise that is all based on an ignorant transalation of the Hebrew? and what "spiritual peace" did jesus bring the the world? thousands of divisions within chrsitainity alone,2000 years had passed and here we are at war,in trouble just as much as it was before jesus...he changed nothing!
violinistapr 3 years ago
And what has Israel done to the world if they were the (and still only) chosen people? Look at the hate the world has thrown at Israel in the last 2,000 years. I don't need to mention any specific date since you are well aware of them I would think.
Jesus brought spiritual peace bewtween man and God. Did not the animal sacrifices only cover the sins? Do the Hewbew Scriptures not confirm that only G-d saves? This is why Israel cannot be the one that dies for sin in Isaiah 53.
manchristmas 3 years ago
as I stated before there was hate of the jews thru history including way before jesus! " 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution,"
we remain loyal to G-d despite evething! you now put Hebrew back to those that left our people and changed their names for Roman ones(like Paul)your movement of "yeshua" is just another deceit of history that was born recently by again stoling some of the Hebrew WE studied and Torah we kept,Isaiah 53
violinistapr 3 years ago
Yes, there has been hate towards the Jews before Yeshua and G-d often revealed why. So, what other reason aside from not accepting Yeshua has caused so much trouble for Israel over the years since Yeshua's time if you are so 'loyal' to G-d? Where is the messiah King? Why do you live not in peace? Why are you not a light to the goyim that the blessed scripture speaks about?
I don't say the above in ignorance. Israel is the most blessed nation in all the earth and I pray for it's peace.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Isaiah 53,
If it is not talking about Jesus, who is it talking about......
Can't be Israel because Israel has been anything but perfect (as have all nations).
It also goes on to say that the jews would not accept Jesus (as a nation as some individuals did). This is actually what some of you are doing even to this day.
It even goes on to say that the Jews would think that Jesus dying on the cross was a result of God seemingly punishing him (which would make him not be the messiah).
manchristmas 3 years ago
"Can't be Israel because Israel has been anything but perfect (as have all nations)."
that can only be said by a total ignorant!
the jewish people are judged in a higher standart than the nations because they have a covenant with G-d in keeping the 613 comandments and the whole nation is jugde as a whole even when one alone commited a sin. So the sins of the nations and the sins of Israel are two entirely different levels. there is a reason why all prophets were Jewish,THINK MAN!!!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Show me where, in the Hebrew Bible, where God will judge Israel differently than the other nations? And more importantly, show me in the scriptures how they (the scriptures) can say Israel is without blemish and can die for........ Israel. Because.....
I can show where the Hebrew Scriptures call Israel anything but without blemish and I can show where the Hebrew Scriptures show a messiah returning to fight for Israel and yet it is Israel who has already (in the past) pierced this messiah.
manchristmas 3 years ago
all what you have to do is think! the jewish people are bound by a covenant of obedience to the 613 commanments,the gentiles will not be punished for not keeping the shabbat or for not eating Kosher,the gentiles were not the witneses of the truth given at mount sinai so they will never be called to judgement for those violations. we see that even in the case of one violation the jewish nation is punished see below:
violinistapr 3 years ago
"1 But the children of Israel committed a trespass concerning the devoted thing; for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the devoted thing; and the anger of the LORD was kindled against the children of Israel." we see that although ONLY ONE person took what was not permited G-d is angered at the entire jewish nation is punished as a whole. the jewish people are G-d chosen people and that means something!!!!USE YOUR HEAD!
violinistapr 3 years ago
My final two points is:
1) Isaiah 53 says that the person was stricken for our transgressions, not stricken for his transgressions.
2) The person in Isaiah 53 is differentiated from Israel whenever it says something like suffering dying for my people.
3) In reference to seed, it said he will see seed, not see his seed. If requested, I can give more details on seed and why it can mean spiritual seed.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Sorry, I meant to say my final 4 points. The character count on Youtube messes things up sometimes.
My 4th point is that Israel has never died (cut off from the land of the living) yet the person in Isaiah 53 does indeed die and therefore get cut off from the land of the living.
If Israel is so good and righteous, then why has Israel gone through such horrible things in the last 2,000 years and beyond and still has no real peace today. Is it because Israel has yet to accept Yeshua.
manchristmas 3 years ago
1)the nations are talking about the jewish people that they hated and yet were the people that kept the world in their merit.
2)yes because it is the nations of the world reacting the injuntice commited against the jews.
3)NOT TRUE! IT SAYS HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED AND PROLONG HIS DAYS ,I SAID BEFORE DEATHS IS IN PLURAL BECAUSE IS AN ENTIRE NATION.
violinistapr 3 years ago
"If Israel is so good and righteous, then why has Israel gone through such horrible things in the last 2,000 years?"
The jewish people went thru horrible things since its begining,slavery in egypt and persecution from neighbors,That is why Isaiah 53 says:3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not." jesus followers did the killing 6mil as did all enemies of Israel,THINK!
violinistapr 3 years ago
your religion stole some principals from the jews and that if fine as long as you keep them and grow with them but insted you used them to kill and divide yourselves still till today,you forced your jesus on the jews at gun point but did not succeed! then because we prevailed over your romanized religion of human god out of our deep love faith and loyalty to the real G-d,you now atempt to convert us by deceit and ignorance! there is no other G-d but the G-d of Israel, not some jesus! you repent!
violinistapr 3 years ago
1) Who is speaking in Isaiah 53? Isaiah. Who are Isaiah's people? Israel. Not the goyim (nations). Isaiah is saying somebody was stricken for 'our (Israel)' transgressions, not 'your (goyim)' transgressions. In verse 8, Isaiah says this person was cut off because of the transgression of 'my' people. Again, 'my people' of Isaiah is not the goyim but Israel. Israel is Isaiah's people.
2)See above.
manchristmas 3 years ago
3) The person in Isaiah 53 was to have no physical seed as he was cut off (verse 8). The seed is spiritual for saved souls.
By being plural at his death, it could be that he died with two others, one that mocked him and one that believed him. With the rich in his death could mean Joseph who was a rich man who was allowed to have Yeshua's body and buried him.
Prolong his days would be when Jesus rose a few days later from his grave.
manchristmas 3 years ago
3)the reward for the servant will be "shall see his seed and prolong its days"millions of jews were killed for the loyalty to the only G-d. jews were always being cut off from the land on the living but G-d did not allow them to be destroyed as a nation. that is why the reward will be:" I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death," because they were willing to die for G-d as jews did they will be rewarded,read again!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Isaiah 53:8 is clear that he would be "cut off from the land of the living." If it was Israel, it could not say this. It would have to say something to nearly that effect, but not that far. Or that 'many' would be 'cut off.' This 'many' would be the several million Jews that would be killed. But some would live.
However, this servant, whether individual or many, would have to be cut off/die/destroyed. That's why it says 'no one can speak of his (physical) descendants,' because he has none.
manchristmas 3 years ago
I have pointed out that it clearly says " TO THEM" in plural and not "to him" in singular. so is not possible that is reffering to just one person. jews die in the millions because of our loyalty to G-d,so being cut off from the living is totally part of the prophesy. there is a problem with your inability to read and know Hebrew. In Hebrew is very precise by saying "to them" מִפֶּשַׁע עַמִּי נֶגַע לָמוֹ. "becuase of the sins of my people injury was given TO THEM"... admit it servant is Israel!
violinistapr 3 years ago
It has nothing to do with my inability to read Hewbrew. Who are the 'my people?' If it was the nations, it would be 'our' people (just as the word 'we' is often used throughout Isaiah 53). This 'my people' is a single nation and Israel is that nation. The 'injury to them' or as David Ben Shamayim translated, a stroke to them.
What is this injury or stroke? It could be that the Messiah, who is to restore Israel, was killed and taken out of the land of the living because of Israel's sin.
manchristmas 3 years ago
kings are talking!: "So he shall startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them they shall see, and that which they had not heard they shall contemplate.....
53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?."This verse introduces the narrative of the shock that the gentile kings of nations will be proclaiming at the dawn of the Messianic era, when the Jewish people are vindicated.
violinistapr 3 years ago
Part 2:
The sin could be that Israel did not acept this Messiah just as Isaiah wrote. This Messiah was dying for the sins but Israel didn't accept this Messiah (servant).
Remember, Zechariah said that a conquering Lord who will restore Israel was once (past tense) pierced by Israel as Israel will 'look upon him who they have pierced and mourn for him.' This pierced one could be the servant in Isaiah 53 and Yeshua could be that servant.
manchristmas 3 years ago
part 3:
Again, this is so important: Isaiah says the servant would be (completely) killed, not partially, hence why no generation or physical seed. This is the 'very word of G-d.'
The servant is also supposed to be silent. Never has Israel been silent when treated badly. They have always cried out and complain.
If the Jews are so good, where is their king?
The world is to be blessed through the Jewish people and indeed they have. Yeshua is a Jew who has brought salvation.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2 of my answer:
So, again, the seed he sees in Isaiah 53:10 is spiritual. According to verse 8, it can't be physical.
Isaiah 53:7 says the servant would be silent under the harsh conditions of Isaiah 53. Israel has never been silent when treated bad.
Back to verse 8: If it is the nations speaking, then the end of verse 8 should read: "For the transgression of 'our' people was he stricken." But by saying 'my,' it is only one nation. Israel (Isaiah's people) seem to be that nation.
manchristmas 3 years ago
"seed" means only phisical biological decendants in Hebrew. you want to force an alian concept to force jesus in Isaiah 53.
"Israel has never been silent when treated bad." that is anti-historical the jews were silenced for milleniums. jesus however was not silent acording to your own new testament acounts.Matthew 26:39 has Jesus praying to G-d to help him avoid his fate. While on the cross, Jesus cries out "why have you forsaken me?" .
violinistapr 3 years ago
Part 1 of seed:
Seed, or zerah, can mean more than biological descendants in Hebrew.
Zerah can mean offspring but it does not mean that exclusively. One notable aspect of this usage is the fact that the word can refer to future generations (Deuteronomy 28:46). So, Isaiah 53:10 would mean that the servant of the Lord would see future generations of his people serving the Lord.
Zerah can mean 'sowing' (Genesis 47:24). This is metaphorical as sowing does not mean 'literal descendants.'
manchristmas 3 years ago
the word vyiro zaro means and he shall see his seed,and that is in context with and will lenghten days in other words not only will see children but will also survive it all! that has been the history of the jewish people.deut 28;46 is reffering also to biological decendants of the jewish people. in genesis 47 it makes it clear that is talking about planting a field. Isaiah is more than clear in saying "HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED" so lets cut the bolonie....
violinistapr 3 years ago
Simply, Zerah does not always mean literal descendants. You said it yourself from Genesis 47, that it means planting a field. That's not literal descendants. There are more examples if needed.
I agree, Isaiah is saying he will see his seed but it does not have to be physical. The servant is to die in V.8 then resurrected V.10. Israel has never died, they've been dispersed but always survived. You agree to that. Israel isn't sinless V.9. See also Isaiah 1:2-4.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Part 2 of seed:
Zerah occasionally means 'semen' (Leviticus 15:16). This is metaphorical as semen does not mean 'literal (or biological) descendants.'
As for the silence, they may have been out of fear perhaps, but they often have complained, something the servant in Isaiah 53 was not to do. Nor was the servant to have sin, something Israel has.
Remember, when Israel was dispersed, it was because of 'their' own sins, not the sins of the world.
manchristmas 3 years ago
52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah,Isa.41:8-9;44:1-2; 45:4;48:20;49:3) Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God, as in Isa. 53:4) 53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them."Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear,that the oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual.
violinistapr 3 years ago
I must ask, in your quote of Isahiah 53:8, "From my peoples' sin, there was injury to them." From where did you quote this from, the Targum? I have never read an actual Bible with this translation. I know the Targum says something to this effect.
The Targum also mentions the Messiah, the person (Targum Isaiah 52:13-53). It sometimes does read that the Messiah is the one that has the burden of Israel's sins such as in verses 4-6 and even the end of verse 8.
manchristmas 3 years ago
the word "lomo" means "to them" so here again you can't come with your distortions!
violinistapr 3 years ago
Part 2 of my response to you:
The targum on Isaiah 53:5 reads "But he shall build the temple that was polluted because of our transgressions." To my understanding, this must be the Messiah as no one else was to build the temple according to Jewish religious tradition, but the Messiah.
I can give you other old Jewish sources that say Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah. So far, I have given 2.
I only mention these sources to show that some Jewish rabbis see/saw a messiah in Isaiah 53.
manchristmas 3 years ago
You mention Isaiah 53:8 like this: "From my peoples sin, there was injury to them." You then go on to say "Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear...."
The point here is you agree it is the prophet speaking since he's making it 'clear.' What he's making clear is the 'my people,' that it is his people's (Israel's) sin, not the nations sins. So, V.5: "He was pierced for our transgressions," that is, pierced for me and my people, Israel. The V8 "injury to them" was on Messiah (Yeshua) V.5
manchristmas 3 years ago
NOT so! the Gentiles are reacting and are the ones talking on Isaiah 53! "the sins of my people" is reffering at kings that will say that they did not esteemed Israel the servant of G-d. I pointed that earlier Isaiah scriptures did not have chapters the last verse of Isaiah 52 ends "15 So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive. now continue reading....
violinistapr 3 years ago
I've already answered elsewhere on the gentiles, that it's not them speaking in Isaiah 53.
I want to bring up a few points here, though.
You had said that the death in Isaiah 53:9 was plural. I answered that Yeshua died with 2 others. You haven't replied. Do you accept that?
manchristmas 3 years ago
are you inplying tha the death of two thiefs were also the expiation of sin without cause? in other words we should include them as part of the sacrifice? so now we have three messiahs we should worship...desperate atempt to distord the scriptures.
violinistapr 3 years ago
No, Yeshua was just simply buried with two thieves. It doesn't say the thieves (wicked) were Messiah's. And it doesn't say Yeshua was wicked.
manchristmas 3 years ago
Sorry, Yeshua was not buried with the thieves but he was killed with them. That is what I meant to say.
manchristmas 3 years ago
this is a desperate atempt to push jesus again on Isaiah 53......either those deaths in plural were all the sacrifice together or is talking about the deaths of others...it is clear that is the DEATHS in plural that has broght the expiation......so either those three were the expiation (is abusurd since they were criminals)
violinistapr 3 years ago
(continued)The Second Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans under General Titus many years after Yeshua (JESUS) was crucified, resurrected and ascended in fulfillment of that prophecy.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago 2
another stupid comment! the messiah will only be messiah when he acomplishes his purpose. it is easy to talk about destructions and "going to heaven"(something contradicted in the new testament by various accounts). The messiah we are waiting would change the world and construct the temple. THAS HAS NOT HAPPENED!!!
violinistapr 3 years ago
yet..
mizpah2000 3 years ago
keliata=You and violinistapr are definitely and absolutely wrong. Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah, wether you believe it or not and wether you like it or not. Read Daniel 9:24-27, it speaks about the appointed time of the Messiah. He had to come, be rejected by the Jewish leadership, crucified, resurrect on the third day before the destruction of the Second Temple.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago 3
nonsence! the math dont add up! before you repeat stupidity,check the hebrew original. but in any case,why the "messiah" needs you to post on youtube that he is the messiah? for the jewish mind such ridiculous practice bring amusement. he was not the messiah because we would not be debating his mesianism if he was....
violinistapr 3 years ago
theMessiah will be rejected by his own people...Isaiah
mizpah2000 3 years ago
Read Isaiah 53. Y'shua was and is the jewish messiah.
manchristmas 3 years ago 2
Isaiash says:"he shall se seed"!jesus never had any seed,it also said "his dead" in plural not signular.
violinistapr 3 years ago
violinstapr=Who would say that Jews can't believe in Yeshua (JESUS)? It is ridiculous. The earliest followers and believers were all Jews, the founding apostles were all Jews, the earliest missionaries were Jews and the earliest congregations were entirely Jewish.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
violinstapr=HaShem is not just the God of Israel, he is the God of all mankind. He has called Israel to be a light to the whole world (Isaiah 49:6 and Isaiah 42:6) to reveal God to everyone and has brought the whole world both Jew and Gentile to know and worship the God of Israel, the promises made in Genesis 12:1-3 has been fulfilled. Yeshua is the most influential Jew in all of history, he is clearly the Jewish Messiah.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
violinstapr=Yeshua is Jewish but he was never paganized by the Romans and Greeks. If you think that he was paganized by the Romans and Greeks you are mistaken.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
violinistapr=Yeshua the Jewish Messiah came 2000 years ago. Jews who lived in the land of Israel during the 1st century A.D. have encountered the Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth. He is now sitting at the right hand of HaShem and he will come again according to the Hebrew Scriptures (Daniel 7:13-14 and Zechariah 12:10).
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
unlike you, I read the scriptures since my ealy age in Hebrew. Have you any idea how a jew feels when some ignorant person is traying to corrupt his own scirptures.Jewish Messiah? who crowned him Messiah of the jews except pagan gentiles? you talk about 2000 years ago..here we are..you telling me that he was......2000 later! BUH!!! you have any idea of what those 2000 year meant to our jewish people?
violinistapr 3 years ago
youcant here the bass or the singer
Acos62 3 years ago
violinistapr=He is the Messiah wether if you believe it or not. The Jewish pseudo-messiahs were Bar Kochba and Sabattai Zevi. If you reject the promised Messiah of Israel and Savior of the World you will be condemned to eternity in the lake of fire.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
Knigh,the messiah we jews are waiting is coming to bring good to the world especially his people the jewish people.Bar and sabbatai are in par with jesus except that in jesus name millions of people have been killed, persecuted, and divided.Jesus was the savior of no one not even himself.when the real messiah come all will believe in him since is written:" 33 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me,"
violinistapr 3 years ago
Absolutely right, Violini. Jesus (may his name be blotted out) was neither g-d or messiah. He didn't meet the criteria to be messiah (return Jews to Israel, rebuild the temple, usher in an era of peace) and the concept of a trinity and even hell is not consistent at all with Judaism.
keliata 3 years ago
Although I think Yeshua (jesus is a false name given to the messiah) was/is the messiah, I agree that the popular concepts of trinity and hell are false and warped. btw, I am not christian, I am messianic.
crazytomcat 3 years ago
Hello,
Yes, Yeshua is Jesus' actual Hebrew name, but Jesus is not false, many messianics accept it even though they use Yeshua themselves. Yeshua is the most accurate name, however.
By the very definition of the word christian, you are one, but in terms of your worship, you are messianic. My worship, although I am a gentile, is more messianic now as I look to worship as they did in the beginning, which is the most proper and Biblical way and also is a Jewish way.
manchristmas 3 years ago 2
Yeshua is the real and true Jewish Moshiach foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. The Torah has many prophecies that describes the real and true Messiah and they point to Yeshua. The Jewish pseudo-messiahs were Bar Kochba and Sabbatai Zevi.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
The greatest evidence tha yeshu was not the messiah is that you are traying to convice that he was....
violinistapr 3 years ago
christians learned theis deceitful tactics, form Paul, he shamelessly proclaimed: "If through my lie God's truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?" (Romans 3:7)
violinistapr 3 years ago
read 2peter 3:15-17 it talks about people twisting pauls words
jasonchavez 3 years ago
we don't have to twist them, history will verify that pauline doctrine was to stay away from the commandement of G-d, he lied by his own admition and corrupted verses from the original bible. Thomas Jefferson called Paul "the great corruptor". Real jews don't believe in jesus,jews believe in ONE invisible G-d that is not limited by death or time or space he does not have a son in a literal sence G-d does not feel hunger or thirst he is not bound by human limitations. man god is a pagan concept!!
violinistapr 3 years ago
They are by no means a "legitimate branch of Judaism". They are Christians. Half of them were never Jewish to begin with, they are posing as "messianic Jew" to lure in Jews who are Biblicly illiterate.
They are the same as "Jews for Jesus" and "Hebrew Christians". All of these organizations are funded by one of the Christian churches. Mainly Baptists. Many Protestants have condemned the Baptists for their deceitful tactics. They use deceitful and immoral tactics.
shnaz65 3 years ago
half of them? 90% of them!!! in latin amarica they have a trick! they tell former pentecostals and catholic gentiles that they decendants from "spanish jews"and this uncircunsize gentiles from generations of gentiles can now call themselve "jewish" and be counted as jews by the false messanic movement, they learn a few Hebrew words change their names to hebrew sounding names put on a Talit make the church look like a synagogue an lo a behold! now they call themeselves "perfected jews"incredible
violinistapr 3 years ago