"How can an atheist say that that four legged herbivore is a 'horse' if there isn't an all-powerful god declaring it to be a 'horse'?"
Seriously, this is what I hear every time they try to claim that you can't have morality without god. It's like they don't understand what the purpose of words are.
Honestly, it's kind of a waste going after morons like this guy. You are clearly an intelligent person, why waste your time debunking the arguments of obvious idiots? You belong in a classroom with people of high intelligence. What you're essentially doing now is to me the equivalent of Mike Tyson beating up handicapped people. The world is full of idiots. I'd rather see someone compete with the greatest minds of a generation to create new ideas than just humiliate morons.
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Thanks. Well, we have a history. Hehheh. I do try to do these partly with an eye toward helping others see through nonsense too, so that they can argue more effectively.
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA The problem is that these idiots have a tendency to convince other idiots, who in turn convince other idiots. We don't want them to outnumber us too badly.
@Zaunstar you could have also added that animals that live in family's don't kill each other for no reason but yet they have no god so why don't they just kill each other
I love it when Christians take this battle front, it's so enjoyable to watch them squirm when you point out that if the Bible dictates all moral code in the world then that must be why we still own slaves, rape women in order to marry them, stone skanks we don't like to death, trade women for goats, do nothing on sundays... need I go on? lol Moral fiber is dictated and evolved by society, and the fact we are programmed as mammals for survival empathy. Wonderful video keep up the great work!
I just subbed to you cause your video about traveling to Europe or something, and then I found that your also an atheist.... I LOVE YOU EVEN MORE I WANT TO SUB AGAIN
Atheist love to say that morals come from a desire for the common good humanity. But you have no proof that man even has that desire in them. Look at this country and the level of crime from when this was a mostly "Christian" nation until now. I would not say that the level of morally has increased. I would say the level of savagery has increased. There is no example of collective humanity raising the level of morality.
@hammcl01 Even with the murder rate and overall crime rate the lowest in decades? Oh, humans can certainly do that. You'll have to leave your ideas of humans being "lowly without god" at the door though.
@Zaunstar The crime rate dropping is not because of any sudden moral consciences that has come upon mankind it is simply because we are putting more people in prison. Any society that restricts freedoms can have a moral society. Look at China the old USSR, North Korea. Man can create a moral society if man restrains man. But then you have oppression not freedom.
@hammcl01 Actually, crime in Europe, where atheism is more predominant and Christianity less, is less than it is in America. But then, European countries have better welfare and healthcare systems than America. Perhaps the problem of crime has nothing to do with religion or it's decline, and more to do with other things like our declining education systems or our growing lack of decent paying jobs, especially for young aduts. Ah, but you wanted to make this about atheists.
@METRATR0N No I am saying this is a humanity issue. Based on what history has shown us I am saying that the only way that humanity to have morals is for some being to institute them. That being can be other men but when that happens tyranny is not far behind. Only a merciful God can bring morals to humanity without tyranny
If your morals come from thought and philosophy, however, even if you don't feel empathy, you'll be aware of all the rational arguments that it's in no-one's interest in the long run to have a society where it is okay to kill children. Hence you will know it's wrong to do it even if if the voice in head says to, which anyhow is probably the result of a mental illness. So you see, I could never be a moral relativist like these Christians, I personally believe in an OBJECTIVE morality.
Suppose that you're a total fundamentalist and you believe that whatever God says is moral, but unbeknownst to you the atheists are right, and also you are in fact a florid schizophrenic. Then, if the voice that you hear in your head says to go out and kill children, you "know" that you are morally obliged to do it, and you will proceed to commit a great wrong... and there's no "check" in place to stop you.
@Zaunstar "Looking for some beautiful yet nerdy women"? Zaunstar, you clearly know me so well! Perhaps you have psychic powers! That is exactly what I am looking for.
Or maybe I'm just picking low-hanging fruit. I mean, how difficult can it be to claim moral superiority over an apologist for rape, genocide and child-killing? Is it just me or is "God told me to" a bit of a lame excuse? If not, I'm pretty sure generations of judges, lawyers and jurists would disagree. To be honest, I feel a bit redundant in such situations.
You know, I seem to have this way of ending conversations wherever I go. Why is that, do you think? Could it be because I have a way of inserting myself into conversations about the Bible, and it rapidly becomes clear that I am the only person present who has actually read it?
I got stopped in the street by a couple of Mormon missionaries the other day. Two minutes in and one is grinning from ear to ear and looking for escape routes and the other one is staring into space and yawning. What can I say? Gotta admire their commitment! At least they both had a copy of the book they admire so much. Who knows, maybe they'd even read it!
@Zaunstar What is a "linked comment"? I know I am in a different time zone to a lot of people, but I am getting a bit tired of seeing my first comment up there "linked" with such a lame answer. Zaunstar, what do I do? I am as vicious and rabid a crocoduck as you could ever hope to meet. I'm hungry! Snap, quack, snap, quack, grind, grind, swallow! Lemme at em!
Why was stoning adulterers to death considered moral 2000 years ago and now it's not? (Unless you live in Saudi Arabia etc.). It says to do it right there in the Bible. What, did God change his mind? This omniscient, omnipotent being, perfect in in justice and in mercy? One would think, if that's the way God is, that indecisiveness would not be one of his qualities.
I have to say, the whole idea that our morals come from the Bible is completely naive. I am not saying it was no influence at all, it clearly was, but to claim that it's the sole source is to dismiss centuries of moral and ethical philosophy. It's just plain ignorant. It also begs an explanation of why morals have changed over the last 2000 years. Why were slavery and the repression of women moral 500 years ago and now they're not? It's not because the Bible changed, it didn't. *We* changed.
@dragaoastro69 in fact, these days nobody serious tries to claim that Christianity has done away with the OT because there is no scriptural basis for it. At most, Paul said that gentiles don't need to follow Jewish ceremonial law (such as circumcision and kosher food) but the Moral Law as laid down in the OT stands to this day.
@dragaoastro69 in the early church, some people (such as the Gnostics) tried to claim that Christianity was a new religion and that the Old Testament was to be done away with and mostly they got executed for heresy. So you should be thankful that we no longer have Biblical Law or maybe so would you be. How does it feel to be lectured to about Christianity by an atheist? Can't be good, eh? A little tip: perhaps you should make sure you know what you are talking about before you post.
@dragaoastro69 come now, how ignorant do you think I am? If I may quote your New Testament: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18. And since when have Christians dispensed with the Ten Commandments? Or the book of Genesis? No Fall, no Original Sin, and hence no Atonement. Our moral values originate from more than one source, but I'll name you three. Socrates. Aristotle. Plato. et toi?
Wow I finally heard it, without God at the top but with all Humanity at the top.
I'm a atheist, heck I reject some peoples atheism because I'm a naturalist and reject all supernaturalism that other atheist don't, but I've always questioned humanism also.
"Humanism: an exaltation of freedom, but one limited by our need to exercise it as an integral part of nature and society."
@Curas1 I'm a humanist ONLY in the sense that humanity is at the top though, so far. Beyond that, I haven't really felt the need to define it any more specifically up to this point.
Morality shmorality. What difference? I'm so tired of religious sputniks spouting about their "morality"! Very very VERY few people on the planet, whether they believe in a ghost universe manager or not, are "moral". If the thousands of religions (cults) are supposed to make people moral then they have ALL totally failed and ....miserably!
Atheists: "I see no evidence of any gods."
Believers: "I have a personal relationship with god."
@t4705mb6 A lot of them are being honest. They simply have a brain disorder and suffer from visual and/or audio hallucinations. And because they are religious, they will never get the medical treatment they need. Even speaking in jibberish can happen to anyone at anytime with the right medical condition. Like Serene Bransons live report on the Grammys. If that happened to her in a church, people would convince her its God trying to communicate with her.
@JabberCT My mother was a holy roller as was a sister. It took long discussions to get them to confess to me that they lied when they said "god" made them speak in tongues - they had faked it. Both also (at long last) confessed they'd NOT read the bible (I have), had no idea IF god existed & had joined organized religion for social benefit.
I've gone through deprogramming many friends with the same results.
That said, I know their ARE those even more mentally ill who ACTUALLY "believe". Sad.
@JabberCT@JabberCT "They simply have a brain disorder and suffer from visual and/or audio hallucinations. And because they are religious, they will never get the medical treatment they need" This is probably the most "hallucinated" coment ever on youtube. As far as im concerned it is you that are beyond treatment. Ho, you are american, i understand now your problem...
@dragaoastro69 You forgot to explain *WHY* what i said rubs you the wrong way. Let me guess. You are religious and you claim to see and hear supernatural creatures that dwell in the sky. And you feel that it is completely natural to hear imaginary voices and see angelic figures? In which case, i highly suggest to seek medical attention immediately. Try explaining yourself instead of just throwing out insults during a tantrum.
The guy that I am referring to is one of my co-workers. I have no problem doing things like you are doing such as responding to dum ases on youtube.. but as far as my personal social circle goes I am a bit more careful about how hard I pursue my end goal of showing these people how to cut their mental chains of religious slavery.
@jamesaschafer1982 Yes, I've run into people like that too on youtube. It's a bit of a frightening thought that the only thing tethering their brain away from sociopathy is a connection with a make-believe deity.
@Zaunstar It seems to me that that is why most people believe in god. These people who claim that you can't have decent morals without believing in god are, by the same token, admitting that they don't have a conscience.
@jamesaschafer1982 That just goes to show that the person without god would kill people is someone who has no morals. It just goes to show that you are, in fact, morally superior than he is as it reveals that he has no morals. A moral man is someone who not only knows right from wrong but lives by it regardless of rewards and punishments.
@jamesaschafer1982 So...he obviously doesn't fear imprisonment and the death penalty (loss of freedom and a severely shortened lifespan)....he just fears spending eternity in hell. I don't think he's even thought it thru...which is a common ailment among delusional people.
Oh crap *sigh* "there is no objective morality" is not the same as "it's a complete free-for-all and you can do whatever the heck you please". We all live in societies, sharing with other people who have emotional responses we can recognise. That a certain "moral code" tends to crystallise out of that should hardly be considered a surprise XD
@rozeboosje Hello Pino. Yes, it's a pretty old premise, repeated so many times, so many different ways, but I hadn't yet formulated a solid response to such nonsense until now, so it seemed like it was time.
moral authority i allways though was based on the overall scoial enviorment. ex moms get sick of sons being murdered; they pay taxes and request a change. gov makes police, police catch murders and so on. ive allways thought this is how laws based on our cultural trends are established. thous relfecting the genral idea of whats moral in our society. thats why even within are 1 country each state has diffrent laws. ex age of consent ranges 15-18.
Morality based on personal authority is arbitrary not absolute. For it to absolute it must be something that couldn't possibly be any other way - like a mathematical proof. Question: does God have to obey the rules of mathematics/logic?
Which came first, the evolving morality of social proto-humans, or God detailing what morals are. The atheist/secularist approach is that the credit for Humans being good must go to the humans, not to God. The credit for doing bad is goes to humans too (same deal gets you credit and blame).
In contradistinction,Religion declares the good for God and the bad for human. This is a totalitarian and immoral stance.
That guy should spend a week in a zoo observing the behaviour of Chimpanzee's and see how they interact with eachother, he would notice pretty early on, they have a social structure. Yes, even monkeys have order in their lives ( as indeed do the vast majority of the animal kingdom)
I'd happily lend him my box set of David Attenborough DVD's on the natural world.
Nice atheist experience shout-out it came to mind for me in the exact instant i knew you were saying solipsist... and then it happened on the screen and i started laughing and peeing!!!!
Nice one dude, i think there is a criticism here too that all religious people tend to assume that ethics and morals are JUST a matter of following a set of rules or laws and that without someone to enforce the rules there can be no morality.
I am an atheist and I am morally indignant. If you're not feeling it after listening to kmsoileau, go away and listen to William Lane Craig's apologetics for the massacre of the Midianites. That should be enough to make anyone who actually has morals to begin with feel indignant. It's pretty ironic when someone who says that he feels God "in his heart" clearly hasn't got one.
I know you say I should have been facepalming, but if I facepalmed every time I saw or heard something ridiculous on YouTube, I'd have replaced my glasses a dozen times by now from sheer aggressive forgetfulness.
@Zaunstar thanks! It's even funnier with some of the context. Solipsism drives me nuts and people who try to appeal to it go even beyond young earth creationists in terms of how impossible they are to deal with. At least YECs acknowledge there is a reality, even if they don't happen to live in it.
Christians who want to claim moral superiority are left having to explain things like: why God apparently endorses slaver and genocide in the Bible. Now, it seems pretty clear to me when one is reduced to apologetics for genocide, one has already lost the argument and any claim to moral authority. In fact I would charitably describe such a person as a moral imbecile.
@InvincibleIronyMan Christians follow the new testament, not the old and even in the old testament we do have as western citizens the basis of our moral actions. Present me a alternative in western history for our moral ground and read the bible whit rational and critical thinking, not by others interpretation.
I think most people who argue for objective morality, not only desire to be right, but don't want to give up their stick they use to beat others with. People are obsessed with power and authority and so long as they think they have the true objective morality they get to wield some level of power over others.
"If there is no objective morality, then how do I justify forcing others to hate and love the same things as I do?"
"Stalemate", ......Did Edward Current get all jowly and look like a doomed wise guy from one episode of the Sopranos? With a French name? Maybe he's just a Poe/Troll....
Have you seen kmsoileau's responses to refutations? He basically explains to everybody that they didn't watch the video, and thus did not understand what he really meant.
In the end, it seems, it turns out he really did not mean anything at all.
@infideluxe Yeah he made a lot of comments on my last video, but as I added into the info bar here, he apparently blocked me sometime in the past year, but I have no idea when or why. We were still talking after I made the other video. Who knows.
It's the usual thinking purely from an individual standpoint without thinking of the consequences of that action if EVERYONE came to the same conclusion. It's such an antisocial view of morality... when morality is ALL ABOUT social interactions.
As has been said countless times before: religous people like to pick and choose the parts of their holy books they want to obey. We don't need a moral authority to tell us how to be decent to eachother. It's an essential part of being human.
Person 1: Hey, do you have any plans for the weekend?? Person 2: Yeah, I'm having a solipsist convention. Person 1: Cool! I'll be there! Person 2: If you were there, I wouldn't be having it.
Scale is on order. I've been a little derailed because I threw out my back, and have been laid up all week. All the more motivation to make some serious changes.......
The stupidest thing about this guy's argument is that he seems to think that, even if there were an objective morality, simply pointing it out would make people obey it.
Christians like this are all like, "if we believe in atheism, then the world will collapse into chaos!" As if nobody has a conscience of their own.
I once had a theist try and tell me that if all of the world were christian, that we wouldnt have any problems.
I thought on that concept for a while before realizing that there was a time when all of humanity was christian. It was a time of the great crusades and a time when the inquisition ruled supreme. It's called the dark ages for a reason folks.
"Why have you let all the women live?" he (Moses) demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
It's the best and worse part of being an atheist. I have to analyze my moral choices instead of choosing from defaults. Yeah, it can be messing, but at least it's thoughtful and relevant to my actual life!
I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Unless a christian thinks it is morally justified to kill someone for wearing a polyblend t-shirt, he is probibly a moral relativist. We, as social animals, have evolved to naturaly develope codes of conduct for living in groups. Most, not all, say that murder is wrong. Some say that taking photographs is wrong. Some say that reverse cowgirl is wrong. All are subjective. Unless CERN finds the Morality Boson and the Quantum of Kindness that is.
I'm less than a solipsist, i believe that everything is abstract and therefore not really exist. But... since i like to put reason first for now is just a playful though to go around with.
"God made humans moral"this is idiocy, we can see gradual examples of morality in chimps today.
How they expel or kill rapists and murderers in the group, it's not perfect.... but we have a long way to go too. Humans in general are not moral because we are so vast in number, and i find it ironic how a huge majority of prisoners are religious.
We get videos from guys like the one dealt with here due to what I call "the parakeet effect". This guy says inane crap probably due more to that he likes to see and hear himself in his videos than really make any sense. It's like hanging a mirror in a parakeet cage, so the bird can see and talk to itself and generally keep itself company. Am I saying this guy is a bird-brain? Well...
"How can an atheist say that that four legged herbivore is a 'horse' if there isn't an all-powerful god declaring it to be a 'horse'?"
Seriously, this is what I hear every time they try to claim that you can't have morality without god. It's like they don't understand what the purpose of words are.
Sines314 1 month ago
I'm not Faceplaming, I'm Banging my head on my desk!
Alphqwe 1 month ago
Subscribed.
DeadMeltedFace 1 month ago
I love that Atheist experience clip.
SirDeathDark 1 month ago 3
i love it when dumb asses try to be philosophical....it's always good for the lulz
zachary3625 1 month ago
Honestly, it's kind of a waste going after morons like this guy. You are clearly an intelligent person, why waste your time debunking the arguments of obvious idiots? You belong in a classroom with people of high intelligence. What you're essentially doing now is to me the equivalent of Mike Tyson beating up handicapped people. The world is full of idiots. I'd rather see someone compete with the greatest minds of a generation to create new ideas than just humiliate morons.
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 2 months ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Thanks. Well, we have a history. Hehheh. I do try to do these partly with an eye toward helping others see through nonsense too, so that they can argue more effectively.
Zaunstar 2 months ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA The problem is that these idiots have a tendency to convince other idiots, who in turn convince other idiots. We don't want them to outnumber us too badly.
Rimmer7 1 month ago
Wow. This Kerry guy isn't a snappy dresser or a critical thinker.
fatouche99 2 months ago
Hahahahaha!!!! Oh, kerry how I've missed you
Icantbeforever 2 months ago
You just stay so calm...yet your words delivery one hell of a punch...Damn.
MrDeadAtheist 2 months ago
how do you write that at 2:00 zolopsist or soloupsist or what plz anser me-
johauHAU 2 months ago
@johauHAU Solipsist
Zaunstar 2 months ago
@Zaunstar thanks, i subscribed (hope i wrote that writgh) my english is terrible.
johauHAU 2 months ago
@johauHAU Thanks! You spelled it right, except writgh = right. *:-)
Zaunstar 2 months ago
@Zaunstar you could have also added that animals that live in family's don't kill each other for no reason but yet they have no god so why don't they just kill each other
Imborian 2 months ago
I'm a brony!
^unrelated.
This guy was pathetic, by the way. His argument was really terrible.
dRevan64 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Zaunstar
someone missed the dislike button 0_o
ultimatesaged 2 months ago
I can still hear the echo of my face palm.
That guys reasoning made no sense at all. Great video!!
Strictlypointless 2 months ago
I love it when Christians take this battle front, it's so enjoyable to watch them squirm when you point out that if the Bible dictates all moral code in the world then that must be why we still own slaves, rape women in order to marry them, stone skanks we don't like to death, trade women for goats, do nothing on sundays... need I go on? lol Moral fiber is dictated and evolved by society, and the fact we are programmed as mammals for survival empathy. Wonderful video keep up the great work!
SEvePhillips 2 months ago
you deserve to become as popular of theamazingatheist
maggotpulse15 2 months ago
I just subbed to you cause your video about traveling to Europe or something, and then I found that your also an atheist.... I LOVE YOU EVEN MORE I WANT TO SUB AGAIN
NamedJesse 2 months ago
@NamedJesse Thanks! I appreciate the support. *:-)
Zaunstar 2 months ago
@NamedJesse I know what you mean. I wish I could sub to Zaunstar every day.
DeeDemonwitch 2 months ago
@NamedJesse vouch!
ultimatesaged 2 months ago
Atheist love to say that morals come from a desire for the common good humanity. But you have no proof that man even has that desire in them. Look at this country and the level of crime from when this was a mostly "Christian" nation until now. I would not say that the level of morally has increased. I would say the level of savagery has increased. There is no example of collective humanity raising the level of morality.
hammcl01 2 months ago
@hammcl01 Even with the murder rate and overall crime rate the lowest in decades? Oh, humans can certainly do that. You'll have to leave your ideas of humans being "lowly without god" at the door though.
Zaunstar 2 months ago
@Zaunstar The crime rate dropping is not because of any sudden moral consciences that has come upon mankind it is simply because we are putting more people in prison. Any society that restricts freedoms can have a moral society. Look at China the old USSR, North Korea. Man can create a moral society if man restrains man. But then you have oppression not freedom.
hammcl01 2 months ago
@hammcl01 Actually, crime in Europe, where atheism is more predominant and Christianity less, is less than it is in America. But then, European countries have better welfare and healthcare systems than America. Perhaps the problem of crime has nothing to do with religion or it's decline, and more to do with other things like our declining education systems or our growing lack of decent paying jobs, especially for young aduts. Ah, but you wanted to make this about atheists.
METRATR0N 2 months ago
@METRATR0N No I am saying this is a humanity issue. Based on what history has shown us I am saying that the only way that humanity to have morals is for some being to institute them. That being can be other men but when that happens tyranny is not far behind. Only a merciful God can bring morals to humanity without tyranny
hammcl01 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ALLAH asking the atheist these questions in the QURAN in chapter 52 verse 35:
"Were they created of nothing,
or were they the creators [of themselves]? 35 "
=> for more type in google "TheDeenShow"
akeello 3 months ago
I saw that atheist experience live, and I laughed sOOOO hard.
Carlosonebillion 3 months ago
I'm a brony and i really hope that this fact makes you angry.
MNICY 3 months ago
@MNICY Brohoof
ipeterG123 2 months ago
If your morals come from thought and philosophy, however, even if you don't feel empathy, you'll be aware of all the rational arguments that it's in no-one's interest in the long run to have a society where it is okay to kill children. Hence you will know it's wrong to do it even if if the voice in head says to, which anyhow is probably the result of a mental illness. So you see, I could never be a moral relativist like these Christians, I personally believe in an OBJECTIVE morality.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Suppose that you're a total fundamentalist and you believe that whatever God says is moral, but unbeknownst to you the atheists are right, and also you are in fact a florid schizophrenic. Then, if the voice that you hear in your head says to go out and kill children, you "know" that you are morally obliged to do it, and you will proceed to commit a great wrong... and there's no "check" in place to stop you.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Comment removed
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@Zaunstar "Looking for some beautiful yet nerdy women"? Zaunstar, you clearly know me so well! Perhaps you have psychic powers! That is exactly what I am looking for.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Comment removed
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
I think, in the interests of sexual equality, I am due a few threats of rape. Why should Rebecca Watson have a monopoly in such matters?
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@InvincibleIronyMan Can't rape the willing.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar Much as I like you Zaunstar, I still wouldn't be willing.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@InvincibleIronyMan Not what I meant. Heh. Thought you were looking for some beautiful yet nerdy women.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Or maybe I'm just picking low-hanging fruit. I mean, how difficult can it be to claim moral superiority over an apologist for rape, genocide and child-killing? Is it just me or is "God told me to" a bit of a lame excuse? If not, I'm pretty sure generations of judges, lawyers and jurists would disagree. To be honest, I feel a bit redundant in such situations.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
You know, I seem to have this way of ending conversations wherever I go. Why is that, do you think? Could it be because I have a way of inserting myself into conversations about the Bible, and it rapidly becomes clear that I am the only person present who has actually read it?
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
I got stopped in the street by a couple of Mormon missionaries the other day. Two minutes in and one is grinning from ear to ear and looking for escape routes and the other one is staring into space and yawning. What can I say? Gotta admire their commitment! At least they both had a copy of the book they admire so much. Who knows, maybe they'd even read it!
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@Zaunstar Are there ranks in the crocoduck army? Are you a general? A field-marshal, perhaps? What does one need to do to get promoted around here?
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@Zaunstar What is a "linked comment"? I know I am in a different time zone to a lot of people, but I am getting a bit tired of seeing my first comment up there "linked" with such a lame answer. Zaunstar, what do I do? I am as vicious and rabid a crocoduck as you could ever hope to meet. I'm hungry! Snap, quack, snap, quack, grind, grind, swallow! Lemme at em!
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@InvincibleIronyMan I have no idea, sorry. That's youtube-land stuff that maybe is a glitch?
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Why was stoning adulterers to death considered moral 2000 years ago and now it's not? (Unless you live in Saudi Arabia etc.). It says to do it right there in the Bible. What, did God change his mind? This omniscient, omnipotent being, perfect in in justice and in mercy? One would think, if that's the way God is, that indecisiveness would not be one of his qualities.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
I have to say, the whole idea that our morals come from the Bible is completely naive. I am not saying it was no influence at all, it clearly was, but to claim that it's the sole source is to dismiss centuries of moral and ethical philosophy. It's just plain ignorant. It also begs an explanation of why morals have changed over the last 2000 years. Why were slavery and the repression of women moral 500 years ago and now they're not? It's not because the Bible changed, it didn't. *We* changed.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@dragaoastro69 in fact, these days nobody serious tries to claim that Christianity has done away with the OT because there is no scriptural basis for it. At most, Paul said that gentiles don't need to follow Jewish ceremonial law (such as circumcision and kosher food) but the Moral Law as laid down in the OT stands to this day.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@dragaoastro69 in the early church, some people (such as the Gnostics) tried to claim that Christianity was a new religion and that the Old Testament was to be done away with and mostly they got executed for heresy. So you should be thankful that we no longer have Biblical Law or maybe so would you be. How does it feel to be lectured to about Christianity by an atheist? Can't be good, eh? A little tip: perhaps you should make sure you know what you are talking about before you post.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dragaoastro69 come now, how ignorant do you think I am? If I may quote your New Testament: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18. And since when have Christians dispensed with the Ten Commandments? Or the book of Genesis? No Fall, no Original Sin, and hence no Atonement. Our moral values originate from more than one source, but I'll name you three. Socrates. Aristotle. Plato. et toi?
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Comment removed
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Wow I finally heard it, without God at the top but with all Humanity at the top.
I'm a atheist, heck I reject some peoples atheism because I'm a naturalist and reject all supernaturalism that other atheist don't, but I've always questioned humanism also.
"Humanism: an exaltation of freedom, but one limited by our need to exercise it as an integral part of nature and society."
Curas1 3 months ago
@Curas1 I'm a humanist ONLY in the sense that humanity is at the top though, so far. Beyond that, I haven't really felt the need to define it any more specifically up to this point.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar
Well that makes me curious to ask you because I don't think I have, do you believe in the supernatural at all ?
Because I'm coming to find that many atheist that reject a god still believe in the supernatural or non theistic religious beliefs.
Curas1 3 months ago
@Curas1 Nope, I don't believe in any of that. It would be cool for there to be ghosts and ESP and all of that too, but there isn't evidence for that.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Morality shmorality. What difference? I'm so tired of religious sputniks spouting about their "morality"! Very very VERY few people on the planet, whether they believe in a ghost universe manager or not, are "moral". If the thousands of religions (cults) are supposed to make people moral then they have ALL totally failed and ....miserably!
Atheists: "I see no evidence of any gods."
Believers: "I have a personal relationship with god."
Is HONESTY a "moral" virtue?
t4705mb6 3 months ago
@t4705mb6 A lot of them are being honest. They simply have a brain disorder and suffer from visual and/or audio hallucinations. And because they are religious, they will never get the medical treatment they need. Even speaking in jibberish can happen to anyone at anytime with the right medical condition. Like Serene Bransons live report on the Grammys. If that happened to her in a church, people would convince her its God trying to communicate with her.
JabberCT 3 months ago
@JabberCT My mother was a holy roller as was a sister. It took long discussions to get them to confess to me that they lied when they said "god" made them speak in tongues - they had faked it. Both also (at long last) confessed they'd NOT read the bible (I have), had no idea IF god existed & had joined organized religion for social benefit.
I've gone through deprogramming many friends with the same results.
That said, I know their ARE those even more mentally ill who ACTUALLY "believe". Sad.
t4705mb6 3 months ago
@JabberCT @JabberCT "They simply have a brain disorder and suffer from visual and/or audio hallucinations. And because they are religious, they will never get the medical treatment they need" This is probably the most "hallucinated" coment ever on youtube. As far as im concerned it is you that are beyond treatment. Ho, you are american, i understand now your problem...
dragaoastro69 3 months ago
@dragaoastro69 You forgot to explain *WHY* what i said rubs you the wrong way. Let me guess. You are religious and you claim to see and hear supernatural creatures that dwell in the sky. And you feel that it is completely natural to hear imaginary voices and see angelic figures? In which case, i highly suggest to seek medical attention immediately. Try explaining yourself instead of just throwing out insults during a tantrum.
JabberCT 3 months ago
@JabberCT "Try explaining yourself instead of just throwing out insults" Look whos talking...
dragaoastro69 3 months ago
I have to say, that moment on The Atheist Experience was just perfect. It could not have been better. Well, maybe if you add brownies...
ProudAtheistIndiana 3 months ago
The guy that I am referring to is one of my co-workers. I have no problem doing things like you are doing such as responding to dum ases on youtube.. but as far as my personal social circle goes I am a bit more careful about how hard I pursue my end goal of showing these people how to cut their mental chains of religious slavery.
jamesaschafer1982 3 months ago
You don't want people like this to lose their "god". I had one tell me that without god in his life he would kill people. I just agree with him now.
jamesaschafer1982 3 months ago 8
@jamesaschafer1982 Yes, I've run into people like that too on youtube. It's a bit of a frightening thought that the only thing tethering their brain away from sociopathy is a connection with a make-believe deity.
Zaunstar 3 months ago 16
@Zaunstar It seems to me that that is why most people believe in god. These people who claim that you can't have decent morals without believing in god are, by the same token, admitting that they don't have a conscience.
Nathan173AB 3 months ago
@jamesaschafer1982 That just goes to show that the person without god would kill people is someone who has no morals. It just goes to show that you are, in fact, morally superior than he is as it reveals that he has no morals. A moral man is someone who not only knows right from wrong but lives by it regardless of rewards and punishments.
Ridleysama 3 months ago
@jamesaschafer1982 So...he obviously doesn't fear imprisonment and the death penalty (loss of freedom and a severely shortened lifespan)....he just fears spending eternity in hell. I don't think he's even thought it thru...which is a common ailment among delusional people.
METRATR0N 2 months ago
Very nicely done. I especially like that your responses to that dolt are different but every bit as effective as I would have done.
Underlings 3 months ago
(short answer)
...YES
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads Ah good, well at least SOMEONE agrees with him. Do tell! *:-)
Zaunstar 3 months ago
I think it is a test... the people you know... how can this go on for such a long time...
TheWisemonkey8 3 months ago
Oh crap *sigh* "there is no objective morality" is not the same as "it's a complete free-for-all and you can do whatever the heck you please". We all live in societies, sharing with other people who have emotional responses we can recognise. That a certain "moral code" tends to crystallise out of that should hardly be considered a surprise XD
rozeboosje 3 months ago
@rozeboosje Hello Pino. Yes, it's a pretty old premise, repeated so many times, so many different ways, but I hadn't yet formulated a solid response to such nonsense until now, so it seemed like it was time.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar quite right
rozeboosje 3 months ago
Moral authority? LOL. But I have moral opinions and I'm not afraid to voice them :-)
rozeboosje 3 months ago
moral authority i allways though was based on the overall scoial enviorment. ex moms get sick of sons being murdered; they pay taxes and request a change. gov makes police, police catch murders and so on. ive allways thought this is how laws based on our cultural trends are established. thous relfecting the genral idea of whats moral in our society. thats why even within are 1 country each state has diffrent laws. ex age of consent ranges 15-18.
ANCHORSaweighMYboys 3 months ago
Morality based on personal authority is arbitrary not absolute. For it to absolute it must be something that couldn't possibly be any other way - like a mathematical proof. Question: does God have to obey the rules of mathematics/logic?
Templetonq 3 months ago
@Templetonq Sort of like the "Could god create an object that even he can't move?"
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Moral Authority is an oxymoron.
sorienor 3 months ago
Nice vid!
Devilock07 3 months ago
Lol Zaunstar, I actually facepalmed about 1:15
MrNemitri 3 months ago
@MrNemitri You were ahead of the curve!
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Testify brother Zaunstar! Can I get an AMEN?
In all seriousness though, I couldn't have said it better myself.... so I'm glad you said it!
Archmancer 3 months ago
Are you a brony?
radicalbacon 3 months ago
Which came first, the evolving morality of social proto-humans, or God detailing what morals are. The atheist/secularist approach is that the credit for Humans being good must go to the humans, not to God. The credit for doing bad is goes to humans too (same deal gets you credit and blame).
In contradistinction,Religion declares the good for God and the bad for human. This is a totalitarian and immoral stance.
drfoxcourt 3 months ago
@drfoxcourt "In contradistinction,Religion declares the good for God and the bad for human. This is a totalitarian and immoral stance."
I really like the way you put that. Well said.
moopism 3 months ago
That guy should spend a week in a zoo observing the behaviour of Chimpanzee's and see how they interact with eachother, he would notice pretty early on, they have a social structure. Yes, even monkeys have order in their lives ( as indeed do the vast majority of the animal kingdom)
I'd happily lend him my box set of David Attenborough DVD's on the natural world.
bonnie43uk 3 months ago
Nice atheist experience shout-out it came to mind for me in the exact instant i knew you were saying solipsist... and then it happened on the screen and i started laughing and peeing!!!!
gr8z0mbiejesus 3 months ago
@gr8z0mbiejesus Hah! You ended up cleaning more of your house than you intended? Sorry about that. *:-)
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Nicely done.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH Thanks Prof! Finally home now this week, by the way. Yay!
By the way Crocoduck Army, I highly recommend you sub that man, though I know many are already!
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar Welcome home. I'm sure Mrs. Zaunstar is most pleased to have you back. And thanks for the nice shout out. :-)
ProfMTH 3 months ago
Nice one dude, i think there is a criticism here too that all religious people tend to assume that ethics and morals are JUST a matter of following a set of rules or laws and that without someone to enforce the rules there can be no morality.
MichaelPayton67 3 months ago
@MichaelPayton67 Thanks Michael! How are the big plans coming along?
Zaunstar 3 months ago
I am an atheist and I am morally indignant. If you're not feeling it after listening to kmsoileau, go away and listen to William Lane Craig's apologetics for the massacre of the Midianites. That should be enough to make anyone who actually has morals to begin with feel indignant. It's pretty ironic when someone who says that he feels God "in his heart" clearly hasn't got one.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@InvincibleIronyMan Oh, I've heard Craig. He's total nonsense. On the plus side though, we have recently surpassed his subscriber total. *:-)
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Bronies FTW
ScottJoC 3 months ago
we are a phenomenom now YAY!! can we have a show?
315MrAnonymous 3 months ago
I know you say I should have been facepalming, but if I facepalmed every time I saw or heard something ridiculous on YouTube, I'd have replaced my glasses a dozen times by now from sheer aggressive forgetfulness.
And that would make me financially indignant.
OxTheWriter 3 months ago
Can you link to the "You're a solipsist?!" clip from the Atheist Experience? I'd love to see the call that resulted in that.
LynxChan 3 months ago
@LynxChan Added the clip to the info bar. Not sure where the full episode is, but I have seen that too.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar thanks! It's even funnier with some of the context. Solipsism drives me nuts and people who try to appeal to it go even beyond young earth creationists in terms of how impossible they are to deal with. At least YECs acknowledge there is a reality, even if they don't happen to live in it.
LynxChan 3 months ago
Christians who want to claim moral superiority are left having to explain things like: why God apparently endorses slaver and genocide in the Bible. Now, it seems pretty clear to me when one is reduced to apologetics for genocide, one has already lost the argument and any claim to moral authority. In fact I would charitably describe such a person as a moral imbecile.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
@InvincibleIronyMan Christians follow the new testament, not the old and even in the old testament we do have as western citizens the basis of our moral actions. Present me a alternative in western history for our moral ground and read the bible whit rational and critical thinking, not by others interpretation.
dragaoastro69 3 months ago
I think most people who argue for objective morality, not only desire to be right, but don't want to give up their stick they use to beat others with. People are obsessed with power and authority and so long as they think they have the true objective morality they get to wield some level of power over others.
"If there is no objective morality, then how do I justify forcing others to hate and love the same things as I do?"
Thayer79 3 months ago
i am a Morally Indignant Atheist Brony
jmm1233 3 months ago
@jmm1233 I can't find fault in any of that. Heh.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Absolutism is never ok
GingerAtheist 3 months ago
@GingerAtheist Heh. Well played! Nice meeting you in NYC.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar It was nice meeting you too sir.
GingerAtheist 3 months ago
"Stalemate", ......Did Edward Current get all jowly and look like a doomed wise guy from one episode of the Sopranos? With a French name? Maybe he's just a Poe/Troll....
Ersa1a 3 months ago
@Ersa1a I did want to work a "checkmate" in there somewhere too, but I will save it for another time. I definitely thought about it!
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Have you seen kmsoileau's responses to refutations? He basically explains to everybody that they didn't watch the video, and thus did not understand what he really meant.
In the end, it seems, it turns out he really did not mean anything at all.
infideluxe 3 months ago
@infideluxe Yeah he made a lot of comments on my last video, but as I added into the info bar here, he apparently blocked me sometime in the past year, but I have no idea when or why. We were still talking after I made the other video. Who knows.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
what's so rediculus about bronies?
by internet standard the make PERFECT sense
LostInNumbers 3 months ago
@LostInNumbers Candy mountain, brooooooooony... yeahhhhhhh!
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Oi! It's NYAN cat! Not "nai-on" cat! Nyan is the Japanese "meow"!
onpon4 3 months ago
@onpon4 I figured I was probably pronouncing it wrong. Oh well. Hard to keep up with all of these memes! Thanks.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
It's the usual thinking purely from an individual standpoint without thinking of the consequences of that action if EVERYONE came to the same conclusion. It's such an antisocial view of morality... when morality is ALL ABOUT social interactions.
kelarael 3 months ago
As has been said countless times before: religous people like to pick and choose the parts of their holy books they want to obey. We don't need a moral authority to tell us how to be decent to eachother. It's an essential part of being human.
Templetonq 3 months ago
@Templetonq Yep, "cafeteria-style". It really ALL is that way.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Person 1: Hey, do you have any plans for the weekend?? Person 2: Yeah, I'm having a solipsist convention. Person 1: Cool! I'll be there! Person 2: If you were there, I wouldn't be having it.
TheMassaCreature 3 months ago 4
@TheMassaCreature Aw man, thank you for the laugh. (I was at risk of having tea come out my nose with this one. :D )
PurpleGhost 3 months ago
@PurpleGhost Anytime xD
TheMassaCreature 3 months ago
"you're a sollipsist!"
I loved that clip spliced in. Perfect accoutrement to a great vid.
SiriusMined 3 months ago
@SiriusMined Thanks! Hehheh. Hey, I was just thinking about you yesterday. Is your plan in action yet?
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar
Hey Erik!
Scale is on order. I've been a little derailed because I threw out my back, and have been laid up all week. All the more motivation to make some serious changes.......
SiriusMined 3 months ago
@SiriusMined Yes! Very good idea. Enlist the family to help keep you on track too!
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Zaunstar just gets better every time
anzwertree 3 months ago
@anzwertree Thank ye kindly, good sir! I do the best I can with the time available.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
So to sum up....
O o
/¯/______________________________________
|? BLAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
\_\¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Nagneto 3 months ago
The stupidest thing about this guy's argument is that he seems to think that, even if there were an objective morality, simply pointing it out would make people obey it.
Christians like this are all like, "if we believe in atheism, then the world will collapse into chaos!" As if nobody has a conscience of their own.
TheMessianicManic 3 months ago
I once had a theist try and tell me that if all of the world were christian, that we wouldnt have any problems.
I thought on that concept for a while before realizing that there was a time when all of humanity was christian. It was a time of the great crusades and a time when the inquisition ruled supreme. It's called the dark ages for a reason folks.
TheJack10116 3 months ago
@TheJack10116 Yes, many people believe things would all be great if only the world were just like them. It's puzzling, and highly unlikely.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
@Zaunstar So, by extension one could posit the world is a worse place because we're all self deluded assholes living in personalized fantasies?
Sounds about right....
moopism 3 months ago
That theist is an idiot.
Every one does have their own separate sense of morality and we come to a consensus as a society as to what moral rules need to be enforced.
Subjective morality explains why morals change across different regions and also over time. Totally ignorant to believe otherwise.
destronia123 3 months ago
LOL @ 2:02
dulgrani 3 months ago
If I want to join the Crocoduck army do I need to go through webbed boot camp?
MrSamuelSpade 3 months ago
I really, really, really liked this on first watch. Even more the second watch.
LazySundayClub 3 months ago
"Why have you let all the women live?" he (Moses) demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Who has the superior morality?
TheCraich 3 months ago
Objective morality does exist among atheists. It's called fair play.
TheCraich 3 months ago
@Zaunstar what does that word mean between 2:00-2:03?
Revan416 3 months ago
Nice. Thanks for making this!
infideluxe 3 months ago
People who believe in an objective morality just can't stand the possibility of being wrong.
defcore108 3 months ago 2
Brony for ever! :3
Faithmaster 3 months ago
That guy must have never seen /b/ if he thinks that Morally Indignant Atheists are one of the most ridiculous things on the internet. 'Nuff said.
AtheistBuckeye 3 months ago
How'd he know I was facepalming? O_O Witch!
MrOmniblast 3 months ago 14
@MrOmniblast I float. You might have to burn me.
Zaunstar 3 months ago 13
@Zaunstar Everything floats down here.
AndrewTheEternal 3 months ago
@AndrewTheEternal Pennywise the clown? *shiver*
Zaunstar 3 months ago
Stalemate!
It's the best and worse part of being an atheist. I have to analyze my moral choices instead of choosing from defaults. Yeah, it can be messing, but at least it's thoughtful and relevant to my actual life!
LJonYT 3 months ago 9
@LJonYT Yes, and when you get there, there could be SOME sense of accomplishment!
Zaunstar 3 months ago 8
ON topic:
I guess majority thinks that stem research is morally sound, then.
phenomenon91 3 months ago
Yeeeeeeeah that background is absolutely gay.
<3
phenomenon91 3 months ago
@phenomenon91 It's the same one I used for the "Magic By Any Other Name" video, actually.
Zaunstar 3 months ago
I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Unless a christian thinks it is morally justified to kill someone for wearing a polyblend t-shirt, he is probibly a moral relativist. We, as social animals, have evolved to naturaly develope codes of conduct for living in groups. Most, not all, say that murder is wrong. Some say that taking photographs is wrong. Some say that reverse cowgirl is wrong. All are subjective. Unless CERN finds the Morality Boson and the Quantum of Kindness that is.
RationalismDefined 3 months ago
Comment removed
Felhaven 3 months ago
I'm less than a solipsist, i believe that everything is abstract and therefore not really exist. But... since i like to put reason first for now is just a playful though to go around with.
DraskyVanderhoff 3 months ago
what a dink.
rriverstone1 3 months ago
the morality thing these religious zealots whine about, is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
StickyTank 3 months ago
"God made humans moral"this is idiocy, we can see gradual examples of morality in chimps today.
How they expel or kill rapists and murderers in the group, it's not perfect.... but we have a long way to go too. Humans in general are not moral because we are so vast in number, and i find it ironic how a huge majority of prisoners are religious.
Deshwat90210 3 months ago
Damn you for putting the atheist experience clip in there and damn me for having a mouthful at the time
Have to clean my monitor now lol
Scarletpooky 3 months ago
@Scarletpooky Hahhhhh! Yeah, that'll happen when that priceless clip catches you unawares.
Zaunstar 3 months ago 3
We get videos from guys like the one dealt with here due to what I call "the parakeet effect". This guy says inane crap probably due more to that he likes to see and hear himself in his videos than really make any sense. It's like hanging a mirror in a parakeet cage, so the bird can see and talk to itself and generally keep itself company. Am I saying this guy is a bird-brain? Well...
Tunnelfish2 3 months ago