1)does the frequency depend noticeably on the powder (grain size, grain mass presumably), have you tried using something other than salt and pepper"?
2)given the frequency, I'd expect the pattern is given more by the ( not flat!!)"landscape outline" inside the plate than by some high modes of resonance?(I know nothing about lutherie, and I'm not attacking the empirical evidence of these patterns' interest, just wondering if "thickness" isn't more important when recarving than flat shape.nice vid
@UMIBOZUUU I believe you change the pattern by altering the thickness. not that one is more important than the other. a pattern will form even on a completely flat landscape. As the wood becomes thinner the frequency lowers.
@mechmusicman You hope like hell your glue job and the kerfing or inside gluing strips are also symetrical with each other, or it will be off. This why he said it should be not that it would be. Wood being a natural material can have some flaws in it, and sometimes glue wont take as well in one spot. A sound post is also set between the two plates, and it's positioning is crucial too. It transfers string energy to the back plate. . Pardon my spelling. I put in a new graphics pgm. Print shrunk!
@Lafiddler1 I'm not sure I can answer that directly. Mine is an old Hewlett-Packard analogue model 200CD from the 1960s which was given to me by a former student of mine who was replacing laboratory inventory in the 1980s with newer digital models. Some of the electronics supply stores such as The Source may carry them. Try "Fluke" on the Internet. Good luck. Bill Sampson
@WGSViolins Some computer software you can download for free can generate (audio) signals at frequencies the user can set. Probably have to use some speaker connected to the audio output of a computer to hear it and for the wood to vibrate to that.
@WGSViolins Low freq ones are on eBay for decent $ but you need the counter too, so I suggest one made by B&K that had a freq counter built in. $300-$400 new at Fry's Electronics and it has a good output. It is great for amps, speaker testing and resonance and this trick as well. For another $50-$100 Jameco has a neat one with a fine tuning knob that I wish I had bought. It is also a B&K (not to be confused with Danish made Bruel and Kjaer the Stadivari of audio test gear since the 30s)
@Satchmoeddie I use an old one for speaker voice coil rub and audio made by Beckman I got for maybe $50, but its output is low, at < 2 Hz the sine wave is sloppy, but with an amp it does this with sine, square and triangle wave forms. The .1 Hz is perfect for detecting speaker voice coil rub, and with the B&K's counter I can dial in audible stuff very well as it has a 5:1 knob that adjusts very slow and fine to the frequency reqd. I started Luthrie in 1983, but I'm in Arizona, so I do amps too.
Respond to this video... I have to say thanks to the maker of this video, as I know how he likes to see the back and top with a powder media vibrating on them. Everyone is different. I did a DIY thing from an old AE magazine that allows me to find a top's resonant frequency. You need a speaker and a mic, or piezo pick up. Either will work. When the signal get larger and you can stop it with hand pressure you have some resonant freq, (largest is primary) I'll try to find which mag #.
@Satchmoeddie In the DIY resonant freqency finder fo speaker cabs, or other items an O scope, freq gen, amp, speaker, mic and Z input are used, so hopefully you can do the lisajou display. It is not crucial, but it helps. I will try to find that article, and and post it on my YT or other place with a demonstration. It is like fancy tap tuning or an addition to tap tuning and this method. An octopus box may also work for a display of the resonance into the mic and back to the scope. Nice Traynor
The Catgut Acoustical Society. Check "Scientific American, October, 1981, article by Carleen Maley Hutchins, The Acoustics of Violin Plates. Empirical research on some 200 violin plates showed that (paraphrasing) the best quality violins had free plate vibrational modes or tap tones around 360 Hz.
Solid information with a 21st century approach! Do you have a website or are you able to guide me to any other resources that deal with violin construction using Chladni patterns?
How did they do this in the days when this technology was not available?
brangreen85 1 week ago
would the bass bar change the symmetry and resonant frequencys of the top palate?
gbtayc 3 weeks ago
What are the 3 frequency’s or are they different for each violin?
gbtayc 1 month ago
Is that the same brand of signal generator that Stradivarius was using during his golden period?
JQSmith2011 1 month ago
cool stuff but how the hell do you play it?
airplanegeorge 8 months ago
1)does the frequency depend noticeably on the powder (grain size, grain mass presumably), have you tried using something other than salt and pepper"?
2)given the frequency, I'd expect the pattern is given more by the ( not flat!!)"landscape outline" inside the plate than by some high modes of resonance?(I know nothing about lutherie, and I'm not attacking the empirical evidence of these patterns' interest, just wondering if "thickness" isn't more important when recarving than flat shape.nice vid
UMIBOZUUU 9 months ago
@UMIBOZUUU I believe you change the pattern by altering the thickness. not that one is more important than the other. a pattern will form even on a completely flat landscape. As the wood becomes thinner the frequency lowers.
ralph5656 5 months ago
How do you know the plate will resonate at the same frequency after it's glued up around the edges? Wont that affect it at all?
mechmusicman 1 year ago
@mechmusicman You hope like hell your glue job and the kerfing or inside gluing strips are also symetrical with each other, or it will be off. This why he said it should be not that it would be. Wood being a natural material can have some flaws in it, and sometimes glue wont take as well in one spot. A sound post is also set between the two plates, and it's positioning is crucial too. It transfers string energy to the back plate. . Pardon my spelling. I put in a new graphics pgm. Print shrunk!
Satchmoeddie 4 months ago
cant you just use a chromatic tuner instead of all that
tonytrilex 1 year ago
where can I get a signal generator? I have an amp, speaker, and a frequency counter already.
Lafiddler1 1 year ago
@Lafiddler1 I'm not sure I can answer that directly. Mine is an old Hewlett-Packard analogue model 200CD from the 1960s which was given to me by a former student of mine who was replacing laboratory inventory in the 1980s with newer digital models. Some of the electronics supply stores such as The Source may carry them. Try "Fluke" on the Internet. Good luck. Bill Sampson
WGSViolins 1 year ago
@WGSViolins Some computer software you can download for free can generate (audio) signals at frequencies the user can set. Probably have to use some speaker connected to the audio output of a computer to hear it and for the wood to vibrate to that.
trailkeeper 1 year ago
@WGSViolins Low freq ones are on eBay for decent $ but you need the counter too, so I suggest one made by B&K that had a freq counter built in. $300-$400 new at Fry's Electronics and it has a good output. It is great for amps, speaker testing and resonance and this trick as well. For another $50-$100 Jameco has a neat one with a fine tuning knob that I wish I had bought. It is also a B&K (not to be confused with Danish made Bruel and Kjaer the Stadivari of audio test gear since the 30s)
Satchmoeddie 4 months ago
@Satchmoeddie I use an old one for speaker voice coil rub and audio made by Beckman I got for maybe $50, but its output is low, at < 2 Hz the sine wave is sloppy, but with an amp it does this with sine, square and triangle wave forms. The .1 Hz is perfect for detecting speaker voice coil rub, and with the B&K's counter I can dial in audible stuff very well as it has a 5:1 knob that adjusts very slow and fine to the frequency reqd. I started Luthrie in 1983, but I'm in Arizona, so I do amps too.
Satchmoeddie 4 months ago
Respond to this video... I have to say thanks to the maker of this video, as I know how he likes to see the back and top with a powder media vibrating on them. Everyone is different. I did a DIY thing from an old AE magazine that allows me to find a top's resonant frequency. You need a speaker and a mic, or piezo pick up. Either will work. When the signal get larger and you can stop it with hand pressure you have some resonant freq, (largest is primary) I'll try to find which mag #.
Satchmoeddie 4 months ago
@Satchmoeddie In the DIY resonant freqency finder fo speaker cabs, or other items an O scope, freq gen, amp, speaker, mic and Z input are used, so hopefully you can do the lisajou display. It is not crucial, but it helps. I will try to find that article, and and post it on my YT or other place with a demonstration. It is like fancy tap tuning or an addition to tap tuning and this method. An octopus box may also work for a display of the resonance into the mic and back to the scope. Nice Traynor
Satchmoeddie 4 months ago
@Lafiddler1 Ebay has them every day.
mechmusicman 1 year ago
Who proposes that these frequencies are good and proper?
lVlagneto 2 years ago
The Catgut Acoustical Society. Check "Scientific American, October, 1981, article by Carleen Maley Hutchins, The Acoustics of Violin Plates. Empirical research on some 200 violin plates showed that (paraphrasing) the best quality violins had free plate vibrational modes or tap tones around 360 Hz.
WGSViolins 2 years ago
Solid information with a 21st century approach! Do you have a website or are you able to guide me to any other resources that deal with violin construction using Chladni patterns?
MulletCutMozart 2 years ago