@Arikiel Oh don't get the wrong idea. Politicians are the source, they're just too far removed from you to care what you think. If we go down, why not take the corporations down with us?
Not that I think we will go down. SOPA will fail like every attempt to control a media has been in the past. I oppose it on principle more than any kind of fear of it's effects.
You're right in that the problem is money; it's just not the money you're talking about. The amount of taxpayer dollars that would be spent on SOPA is insignificant compared to the profits that the entertainment industry seeks to make with this bill, which they have lobbied to make sure it happens.
Their golden parachute is provided by the private sector, not the public.
Oh no? Then answer me this. If politicians simply said to lobbyists, "Sorry, there is no constitutional authority for us to do that, please be on your way," would ANY of this come to pass?
No? Then there you go. They are the source. End of story. Please stop making excuses for them, you only encourage them.
Free markets are where the government does not meddle so you contradicted yourself with that statement.
@greyed If I lodged a complain for every immoral activity the white house engaged in, encouraged and even downright enabled, lord knows I'd never get anything done around here.
@lordthawkeye Nono, ya missed the point. If SOPA allows unilateral closing of any web site accused of piracy then accuse the white house web site of piracy. It gets closed down. Instant recognition on why SOPA is bad.
Here's the thing you're missing: politicians, almost to the man, are narcissists (hence the $200 haircuts). They need to look themselves in the mirror and see great men who will go down in history for their great works. Individuals here and there writing in, sure, won't do anything because they aren't swayed by logic and reason. But people writing en masse hits them in their narcissistic faces. And yes, it HAS worked; I can show you cases.
@shanedk Maybe, though as I said in a past vid, you shouldn't HAVE to be doing this in the first place. It's like hiring a security guard to watch over your store but then you have to stay overnight at the store yourself because you keep catching the guard robbing the place.
So you're effectively paying politicians to do the job that you're the one actually doing.
If only ALL bills had to first be looked at by the Supreme Court to check if the laws they'd become would be constitutional or not, we wouldn't have as many stupid bills go through Congress and thus fewer dumb laws.
@lordthawkeye So what we should just ignore SOPA and let it pass so we can justify our own cynicism about the country? Groups like demand progress and TGWTG's have been doing pretty good at fighting it, tech/internet companies have just as much to lose as hollywood has to gain (If not more since their businesses depends on it.) They've made real progress fighting it.
The fact that people have to fight such an obvious bad thing shows how useless the current system really is. Look at things like the war overseas and the war on drugs, they are obviously things most people wouldn't support directly but support and are sustained because they still believe in the system, if SOPA passes then it wont be any different.
@GravemindZombie As I said in a past vid, if the government's job really is to protect your freedoms, then people shouldn't have to be getting involved in politics in the first place. It's paying someone to do a job and then being expected to do the job yourself. It makes no sense.
@GravemindZombie A government who doesn't listen to it's citizens is another day at the office for democracy. They are not binding in any conceivable sense. It's not like you can take your vote back if a representative doesn't follow through with his campaign promises and so they rarely do.
Can you name me one time in history where the political process wasn't hijacked by lobbyists? It is and always has been a 'good old boy' club and you're not invited, only pandered to.
@GravemindZombie No, no they haven't. Because their battle plan involves appealing to a political class who has utterly no reason whatsoever to give two shits what you think of it because as I said, they get your money no matter what you think of them.
I'm saying to go after the companies supporting it. Already several have backed off when threatened with boycots. You tragically can't boycot the state because it's a monopoly who has all the guns.
@lordthawkeye No, they're not going to listen to a thing you say, they're going to put you in prison for using WoW as a back drop for your videos. Corporate has even less incentive to care then the government since they're the ones to gain from it.
You have to think like corporate, as far as their concerned, threats of boycotts are just a bluff we aren't going to live up to, you cannot protest them because they'll have the police throw you out, they're going to make you buy their products through the study of psychology, as they want the power of "Ultimate persuasion" That's why you see so many weird adds.
They have no capacity to force you to buy their stuff. Only governments have that. That's why corporations buddy up with them.
"Ultimate persuasion"? Subliminal advertising was debunked decades ago. The fact that no dictatorship has ever been able to use it despite how badly they want to should be proof of that.
@lordthawkeye They have police since occupy wallstreet. Your gonna tell me you've never seen cops sit outside wallmart just waiting for someone to try and shoplift? As far as Ultimate persuasion." You may laugh about it now but corporations are putting serious money and effort into psychology and market research, they are not interested in providing you with a decent product, what they ultimately want is to perfect being able to rip people off.
@GravemindZombie Did you or did you not JUST say "Corporate buys them off" with regards to regulations which thus would be an admission that "the quality of life should not be determined by who has the biggest guns or a corporations bottom line" is exactly what you have now?
Or are you just making this all up as you go along?
@lordthawkeye I'm saying that we need to fix our government rather then abandoning it all together. Anarchy isn't nearly as much fun in the real world.
@GravemindZombie Fixing the government means keeping the lobbyists out permanently and never allowing immoral people into public office. If you can't solve that problem, the government is nothing but the ultimate prize for sociopaths.
Your arguments all work on the assumption that only good, moral people get elected. I'm sorry but you are dead wrong on that assumption. Accept it or get used to being exploited for the rest of your life.
@lordthawkeye Lobbyists work both ways, you know how the entertainment industry is lobbying for SOPA? Well tech and social networking companies are lobbying against it. You claim it's futile to try and fight it and that we should just sit back and let things go from bad to worse, but thats exactly the kind of attitude that allows them to pass stuff like SOPA.
@GravemindZombie No, I said writing to your congressmen just perpetuates the fallacy that government is all about protecting the little guy when it is in fact nothing of the sort, much like how praying perpetuates the myth that there is a god.
In other words, when I say praying doesn't heal sick, you're trying to come back with the accusation that I want the sick to suffer which is missing the point at best and a vile character assassination at worst.
@GravemindZombie Do you have an argument that doesn't conveniently exempt the government for no logical reason? If not, save your keys some wear and don't bother because I'm only interested in logically consistent arguments please.
@lordthawkeye When you're ready to accept the possiblity that your outlook is flawed by the perception that anarchy will be some type of utopia, give me a call and we'll discuss this politely.
@GravemindZombie "Your view is utopian" is a bald assertion and therefore not an argument. Back your statements up please.
You know, like how I pointed out that your arguments only work on the presupposition that governments DON'T do the bad things you point out, a presupposition with utterly no logical or emperical backing to it. You are special pleading and not being consistent with your points. That is why I don't take them seriously.
@lordthawkeye You don't take them seriously because you've got the opinion that anarchy will work out perfectly the way you intend it to, where in the real world this is most often not the case when we look at other countries with weak/no governments.
@GravemindZombie Anarchy isn't a solution, it is the rejection of a false solution so you've jumped into this with no actual idea of what you're talking about. Not terribly smart.
And yes, because big powerful governments always result in content, peaceful societies...idiot...
@lordthawkeye Yes, I'm obviously the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm the one who doesn't believe a country can function without a government in a lawless state when history has proven other wise.
@GravemindZombie You're using the internet, an environment with no centralized authority whatsoever, to argue that society cannot function without a centralized authority...right...
Not to mention there are no societies in history who took down their governments with no intention of creating a new one so you are entirely talking out of your ass on that one.
I asked you earlier can you name a time when governments weren't controlled by the rich, you ignored me.
@lordthawkeye You also ignored me earlier when I pointed out SOPA will probably just hurt the person you want to protect. Comparing the internet to the real world doesn't really work out ether. In the real world there are people with guns, they will rob you, probably shoot you unless theres the threat of being put away behind bars. As for your point the early government tried to do things without taxation and guess what? They had no money to get anything done.
@GravemindZombie "In the real world there are people with guns, they will rob you, probably shoot you unless theres the threat of being put away behind bars."
And that's why we need to give one elite group a free pass to use violence in order to solve the problem of violence...
@lordthawkeye If you want an example of what happens when a country has a weak/no government, just look at say, Africa or most third world countries. The quality of life is pretty horrible in those places so I don't see it working here where it has failed everywhere else.
@GravemindZombie African and other third world countries are all run by corrupt dictators so you couldn't be more wrong on that if you tried.
In fact, Somalia's living conditions have actually improved since they deposed their government. It's still not a pleasant place to live but still better than what they had before.
I warned you before not to just make things up as you go along. I do look this stuff up you know.
@lordthawkeye For all that time you apparently spent looking stuff up you should have looked a little more closely at what I actually typed. The fact is that you are wrong because I said weak/no government, the governments are so corrupt because there is no one to keep the dictators out of power, theres no one to protect the people from these people. I give Somalia a couple years at most before the same kind of people are back into power.
@lordthawkeye Because we need to "Purge" the corruption rather then dismantling the government. It doesn't need to grow bigger or shrink. It just needs to be free of debt so that corprate will no longer be able to own it through campaign donations and lobbying along with creating limits on just how much corporate can give. What I'm arguing is that corporate is the real enemy, not the government.
@lordthawkeye I should probably also say that you don't have much room to call me retarded when you are telling people not to bother fighting a bill that will probably get you arrested. Don't get the idea that you're safe from it because you live in canada, I promise you they WILL turn you over to US authorities and they will arrest you solely for using WoW as a background as most other western countries will comply.
another good video
MirageScience 2 months ago
we already have desopa :)
MirageScience 2 months ago
sensorship no restraints will be shot down in court fast as fuck
MirageScience 2 months ago
You do have a point. Politicians are just middle men. Go to the source.
Arikiel 2 months ago
@Arikiel Oh don't get the wrong idea. Politicians are the source, they're just too far removed from you to care what you think. If we go down, why not take the corporations down with us?
Not that I think we will go down. SOPA will fail like every attempt to control a media has been in the past. I oppose it on principle more than any kind of fear of it's effects.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye
Politicians are not the source.
You're right in that the problem is money; it's just not the money you're talking about. The amount of taxpayer dollars that would be spent on SOPA is insignificant compared to the profits that the entertainment industry seeks to make with this bill, which they have lobbied to make sure it happens.
Their golden parachute is provided by the private sector, not the public.
Lodatzor 2 months ago
@Lodatzor "Politicians are not the source."
Oh no? Then answer me this. If politicians simply said to lobbyists, "Sorry, there is no constitutional authority for us to do that, please be on your way," would ANY of this come to pass?
No? Then there you go. They are the source. End of story. Please stop making excuses for them, you only encourage them.
Free markets are where the government does not meddle so you contradicted yourself with that statement.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
Hm, can we lodge a complaint against the White House website for encouraging piracy? >.>
greyed 2 months ago
@greyed If I lodged a complain for every immoral activity the white house engaged in, encouraged and even downright enabled, lord knows I'd never get anything done around here.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Nono, ya missed the point. If SOPA allows unilateral closing of any web site accused of piracy then accuse the white house web site of piracy. It gets closed down. Instant recognition on why SOPA is bad.
greyed 2 months ago
@greyed We could have arrested them all for mass murder by now were it so easy...
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
You are fucking awesome — BUT I DO NOT LIKE GAY-ASS WORLD OF WARCRAFT SHIT CHANGE IT!
Tsicar 2 months ago
@Tsicar So my awesomeness doesn't extend to my taste in games? Oh well, can't win 'em all.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@Tsicar Open another tab on your browser and do something else while the audio plays?
greyed 2 months ago
Here's the thing you're missing: politicians, almost to the man, are narcissists (hence the $200 haircuts). They need to look themselves in the mirror and see great men who will go down in history for their great works. Individuals here and there writing in, sure, won't do anything because they aren't swayed by logic and reason. But people writing en masse hits them in their narcissistic faces. And yes, it HAS worked; I can show you cases.
shanedk 2 months ago
@shanedk Maybe, though as I said in a past vid, you shouldn't HAVE to be doing this in the first place. It's like hiring a security guard to watch over your store but then you have to stay overnight at the store yourself because you keep catching the guard robbing the place.
So you're effectively paying politicians to do the job that you're the one actually doing.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago 2
@lordthawkeye
That is DEFINITELY a win/fav quote!
vspqbd 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Agreed.
shanedk 2 months ago
Favorited For Truth.
vspqbd 2 months ago
If only ALL bills had to first be looked at by the Supreme Court to check if the laws they'd become would be constitutional or not, we wouldn't have as many stupid bills go through Congress and thus fewer dumb laws.
Fetch26291 2 months ago
@Fetch26291 At least then someone would be reading them...
shanedk 2 months ago
Already happened with GoDaddy or whatever. I think it was reddit that started the boycott and/or made it viral enough to work.
Dottlet1 2 months ago
Pretty sure Obama said he'd veto it. It was ether that or Protect IP
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie He also said he'd close Guantanimo bay. HAH!!
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye So what we should just ignore SOPA and let it pass so we can justify our own cynicism about the country? Groups like demand progress and TGWTG's have been doing pretty good at fighting it, tech/internet companies have just as much to lose as hollywood has to gain (If not more since their businesses depends on it.) They've made real progress fighting it.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie
The fact that people have to fight such an obvious bad thing shows how useless the current system really is. Look at things like the war overseas and the war on drugs, they are obviously things most people wouldn't support directly but support and are sustained because they still believe in the system, if SOPA passes then it wont be any different.
ProDCloud 2 months ago
@ProDCloud No, it's because the American people are to lazy/apathetic to care what the government does to them.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie As I said in a past vid, if the government's job really is to protect your freedoms, then people shouldn't have to be getting involved in politics in the first place. It's paying someone to do a job and then being expected to do the job yourself. It makes no sense.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Well yeah, a government that doesn't listen to it's citizens is not a democracy. That's a dictatorship.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie A government who doesn't listen to it's citizens is another day at the office for democracy. They are not binding in any conceivable sense. It's not like you can take your vote back if a representative doesn't follow through with his campaign promises and so they rarely do.
Can you name me one time in history where the political process wasn't hijacked by lobbyists? It is and always has been a 'good old boy' club and you're not invited, only pandered to.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie
"No, communism doesn't work because people are too lazy/apathetic to care about the greater good."
Riiiight.
vspqbd 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie No, no they haven't. Because their battle plan involves appealing to a political class who has utterly no reason whatsoever to give two shits what you think of it because as I said, they get your money no matter what you think of them.
I'm saying to go after the companies supporting it. Already several have backed off when threatened with boycots. You tragically can't boycot the state because it's a monopoly who has all the guns.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye No, they're not going to listen to a thing you say, they're going to put you in prison for using WoW as a back drop for your videos. Corporate has even less incentive to care then the government since they're the ones to gain from it.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie They gain a bigger share of the market from this, yes.
But if nobody buys their stuff, their bigger share isn't worth the paper it's printed on now is it?
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
You have to think like corporate, as far as their concerned, threats of boycotts are just a bluff we aren't going to live up to, you cannot protest them because they'll have the police throw you out, they're going to make you buy their products through the study of psychology, as they want the power of "Ultimate persuasion" That's why you see so many weird adds.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie Corporations have police? Since when?
They have no capacity to force you to buy their stuff. Only governments have that. That's why corporations buddy up with them.
"Ultimate persuasion"? Subliminal advertising was debunked decades ago. The fact that no dictatorship has ever been able to use it despite how badly they want to should be proof of that.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye They have police since occupy wallstreet. Your gonna tell me you've never seen cops sit outside wallmart just waiting for someone to try and shoplift? As far as Ultimate persuasion." You may laugh about it now but corporations are putting serious money and effort into psychology and market research, they are not interested in providing you with a decent product, what they ultimately want is to perfect being able to rip people off.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie
Who do those police work for? (Hint: Long word, begins with a 'g')
vspqbd 2 months ago
@vspqbd Corporate buys them off.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie
If that's true, it only makes our point for us: /watch?v=eC3uVm5Z_K4
vspqbd 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie And that's why we need a government to protect us from the rich?
Sheer genius...
lordthawkeye 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@lordthawkeye We need a government because the quality of life should not be determined by who has the biggest guns or a corporations bottom line.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie Did you or did you not JUST say "Corporate buys them off" with regards to regulations which thus would be an admission that "the quality of life should not be determined by who has the biggest guns or a corporations bottom line" is exactly what you have now?
Or are you just making this all up as you go along?
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye I'm saying that we need to fix our government rather then abandoning it all together. Anarchy isn't nearly as much fun in the real world.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie Fixing the government means keeping the lobbyists out permanently and never allowing immoral people into public office. If you can't solve that problem, the government is nothing but the ultimate prize for sociopaths.
Your arguments all work on the assumption that only good, moral people get elected. I'm sorry but you are dead wrong on that assumption. Accept it or get used to being exploited for the rest of your life.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Lobbyists work both ways, you know how the entertainment industry is lobbying for SOPA? Well tech and social networking companies are lobbying against it. You claim it's futile to try and fight it and that we should just sit back and let things go from bad to worse, but thats exactly the kind of attitude that allows them to pass stuff like SOPA.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie No, I said writing to your congressmen just perpetuates the fallacy that government is all about protecting the little guy when it is in fact nothing of the sort, much like how praying perpetuates the myth that there is a god.
In other words, when I say praying doesn't heal sick, you're trying to come back with the accusation that I want the sick to suffer which is missing the point at best and a vile character assassination at worst.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Except the government is made up of mortal men, so your analogy doesn't really work the way you intended.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie Do you have an argument that doesn't conveniently exempt the government for no logical reason? If not, save your keys some wear and don't bother because I'm only interested in logically consistent arguments please.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye When you're ready to accept the possiblity that your outlook is flawed by the perception that anarchy will be some type of utopia, give me a call and we'll discuss this politely.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie "Your view is utopian" is a bald assertion and therefore not an argument. Back your statements up please.
You know, like how I pointed out that your arguments only work on the presupposition that governments DON'T do the bad things you point out, a presupposition with utterly no logical or emperical backing to it. You are special pleading and not being consistent with your points. That is why I don't take them seriously.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye You don't take them seriously because you've got the opinion that anarchy will work out perfectly the way you intend it to, where in the real world this is most often not the case when we look at other countries with weak/no governments.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie Anarchy isn't a solution, it is the rejection of a false solution so you've jumped into this with no actual idea of what you're talking about. Not terribly smart.
And yes, because big powerful governments always result in content, peaceful societies...idiot...
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Yes, I'm obviously the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm the one who doesn't believe a country can function without a government in a lawless state when history has proven other wise.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie You're using the internet, an environment with no centralized authority whatsoever, to argue that society cannot function without a centralized authority...right...
Not to mention there are no societies in history who took down their governments with no intention of creating a new one so you are entirely talking out of your ass on that one.
I asked you earlier can you name a time when governments weren't controlled by the rich, you ignored me.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye You also ignored me earlier when I pointed out SOPA will probably just hurt the person you want to protect. Comparing the internet to the real world doesn't really work out ether. In the real world there are people with guns, they will rob you, probably shoot you unless theres the threat of being put away behind bars. As for your point the early government tried to do things without taxation and guess what? They had no money to get anything done.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie "In the real world there are people with guns, they will rob you, probably shoot you unless theres the threat of being put away behind bars."
And that's why we need to give one elite group a free pass to use violence in order to solve the problem of violence...
...lord, can you even hear yourself?
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Yes, because I don't believe that the violence will just "Go away" once we abandon our government.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie
Certainly not if we attempt to retain 'property rights' without an arbiter like the government to actually validate this notion. ;)
Lodatzor 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie I said nothing of the sort liar.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Then tell me how you plan to solve the violence?
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye If you want an example of what happens when a country has a weak/no government, just look at say, Africa or most third world countries. The quality of life is pretty horrible in those places so I don't see it working here where it has failed everywhere else.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie African and other third world countries are all run by corrupt dictators so you couldn't be more wrong on that if you tried.
In fact, Somalia's living conditions have actually improved since they deposed their government. It's still not a pleasant place to live but still better than what they had before.
I warned you before not to just make things up as you go along. I do look this stuff up you know.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye For all that time you apparently spent looking stuff up you should have looked a little more closely at what I actually typed. The fact is that you are wrong because I said weak/no government, the governments are so corrupt because there is no one to keep the dictators out of power, theres no one to protect the people from these people. I give Somalia a couple years at most before the same kind of people are back into power.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie "The governments are so corrupt because there's no government to protect the people from the corrupt government"
*facepalm*
Not to mention, are you arguing that the problem is the US government just isn't quite big enough yet? Seriously?
Keep this up. I'm genuinely curious to see how retarded your comments can truly get.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Because we need to "Purge" the corruption rather then dismantling the government. It doesn't need to grow bigger or shrink. It just needs to be free of debt so that corprate will no longer be able to own it through campaign donations and lobbying along with creating limits on just how much corporate can give. What I'm arguing is that corporate is the real enemy, not the government.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye I should probably also say that you don't have much room to call me retarded when you are telling people not to bother fighting a bill that will probably get you arrested. Don't get the idea that you're safe from it because you live in canada, I promise you they WILL turn you over to US authorities and they will arrest you solely for using WoW as a background as most other western countries will comply.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye Or do you believe that the police and authority will disappear because you don't believe in them?
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
And you know what? They won't see a cent from you once you move to canada.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
@GravemindZombie I live in Canada. I do this as a courtesy to a good neighbor that I don't want to see hurt.
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye If the neighbor is who I think it is SOPA will hurt him pretty badly, so that's all the more reason to fight it.
GravemindZombie 2 months ago
Michael Mozart is the name you were looking for.
adhocrat1 2 months ago
@adhocrat1 I knew it started with M and was the same as someone famous but it just doesn't come to me in the moment. ><
lordthawkeye 2 months ago
@lordthawkeye
I've been there.
Good video. Thanks
adhocrat1 2 months ago
@adhocrat1
Damn! You beat me to it!
vspqbd 2 months ago