WEll simply put...hes not supposed to do much of anything except get involved with people who can either use his services indirectly with no noticeable attachment to him personally, or hes supposed to work doing the shit work. Lets face it hes a sex offender. People want to control the world, making it better for themselves, so they act indirectly(through denial of employment) in the hopes that his person will be marginalized sufficiently and/or hopefully kill themselves.
To all those saying "buy his services": for what? A valet? Penn's not the only stakeholder in his show, you know...
And I would say it definitely makes a difference what the nature of the crime was. There's a lot of distance between taking advantage of some horny, stupid teenager and raping someone, or molesting a child too young to understand what's going on, but a lot of the time our system can't tell the difference. Although even a rapist needs a job, even if he doesn't deserve it.
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
couragous and self examining, thanks penn. bs turned me on to libertarianism. in my own judeo - christian upbringing, i learned there is almost nothing that can seperate us from redemption by the author of life. the crime was real and had awefull effects. but welcome the man back. hear his ideas. give hime a sense of community. but of course never condone harm to childeren let him know there is an "untouchable stigma" for a reason.
consensual relationship have sex in a state where the age of consent is 17. If we're referring to true rape, not statutory rape, or something truly fucked up like an older adult (say 40) having sex with a child (say 11) even if they somehow claim it was consensual, that's an entirely different situation. And 5 years? 5 fucking years of his life for what *might* have been a victimless crime? If you're sorry, contact the guy. Give him the chance to change his life if you really feel that way.
What I don't understand is why you didn't find out more about the specific crime. Those who will prosecute/hate/whatever you for associating with someone under the blanket term "sex offender", with no ability to see other points of view, are going to be that way anyway. I agree with the above poster - you said "underage sex", which is one of the mildest and last on the list of "really bad" sex crimes. That is, if consensual. Say, for instance, a 16 year old and a 20 year old who are in a
Underage sex is really mild. "statutory" as in "not really" rape. Something bad sexual would be a serial rapist who tortures and kills his victims. That'd be a suprise having you say, "he seemed like such a nice guy...". What sex crime's milder than underage sex? Flashing?
You've a lot of sympathy Penn. 40 Hail Marys out to clear up the guilt. That's a lot of football. Couldn't you correct the problem? Seek him out and buy his services now.
All time done is not equal - boycotting on a moral/rational basis is good. it would have been better if you knew what the crime was so you could actually make a moral/rational choice...
Agree that it's rougher on sex offenders since it's about the only crime ppl won't forgive. That is tho the sort of thing you have to think about when you get involved in those crimes. The ONLY time its tough is I know a teenage girl who consented to have relations with her adult bf at the time, she lied about her age but he still did 25 years. Another friend was mudered, 6 years for their murderer.
One crime has to register for life and another does not and is less time?
Do you do a background check on everyone you associate with? You could be talking to ex-felons all the time, couldn't you? I think it would suck having to screen who you talk to.
I agree with the sentiment though. That's exactly why recidivism is so high. People resort to crime again and again because, often, it can be the only way to eat. That's not hyperbole either. Fast food does background checks for cryin' out loud.
I am surprised unapproved sex would scare Penn, but he is beholden to the sponsors and others, so imagine he doesn't want to be too selfish and try to bend his associates to his whim all the time.
Fuck what people think. Look the only people who are going to be pissed if you associate with him already hate you, so what's the loss? Make up for a fuck up and contact him again.
May as well put a bullet in his head. All he is left to think about is his sex crime - society insures that is the case. So, society releases him to do it again, wtf? Society seems confused on the issue. The socially conscious thing to do would be to help him live a responsible life, but that is too much work. Guess we are all pigs.
Hey Penn, big fan, and I doubt you read these, but why haven't you found out what he actually did? If you feel so bad about it and everything, that seems like the least you could do. Shouldn't be too difficult.
Yeah, that's fucked up. Shop his fucking trick, seriously, he's served his time and he is back now to society trying to get back on his fucking feet. There is no excuse for punishing again someone who has already served their time, no matter the offense.
Fuck man! I don't really know what to say to make it seem better. I mean... He did his time, he paid his debt to socitity. But ... Fuck I can feel what you feel man as far as the what should I do .. .Ah shit man it is a shit situation n matter what way you cut it.
Well Penn you could have atleast had your staff find out the specifics of what he was convicted of before you decided to seel him out........
I mean yes if he raped some kid then forget he exists but if he had sex with a 17 year old girl that says you have to be 18 then maybe thats somewhat forgivable?
Just shop one of his tricks Penn. Who gives a fuck what people think? If a man has done his time, he's done his time. It's not like you're chilling with a wanted felon.
Justice fallows rules that are supposed to be moral but that are not. They are laws which are wanabe moral laws convoluted by administration, pragmatism, politic and biases. In one country he took 5 years, in another he would have taken 10 in another he would not have went to jail. What is considered serving his time is very relative. Now U feel bad for him at some level, it is human. This society feels that sex offenders should pay all their life and do not believe they can change.
Now is it your battle? are U willing to risk your company reputation, the well being of the people in this company perhaps the well being of your family? I guess not and it is fine, u can not fight every battle. I guess this video is an explanation and a mea culpa. Well in 1 month guilt will have fainted, you will barely remember it. Sometime the horror of pragmatism keeps U from wasting your time, your life. (everything is relative to what U think your battles are).
His time will never be server. Ask the person he raped. I bet that person is still dealing with all the shit he did years ago. You rape a person FUCK you the state should hang your ass. Sorry Penn I still love your videos.
when did Penn ever say that the person he was talking about raped someone? In fact, Penn stated several times he has no idea what this person was sent to jail for, except that it was a sex crime--which encompasses anything even remotely related to sex. I'm not excusing that person's behavior in any way, just pointing out that you shouldn't jump to such a harsh conclusion having zero facts to go on.
the federal government was given very limited powers. the constitution says they can do various things. their power is limited to those things. it does not give them the power to take our freedoms from us. most laws were meant to be done on the state level. the constitution gives us the freedom to pursue happiness. if it makes someone happy to smoke pot then keeping them from smoking it is violating their constitutional rights.
Dear Mr. Jillette. I don't know if you read these or not. I would like to think that since you put your opinions out there you would read the comments, but I don't know. Anyway I would just like to say that, I am a Christian that has been watching a few of your Penn Says videos and find them quite interesting, but this one has me stumped. I would have thought that, out of all people, you would say "F@ck it! And not care what your"Enemies" think. A bit disappointing really.
Forgiveness. Unless you're a Christian, you don't have to forgive anybody you don't want to, whether they deserve to be forgiven or not. Isn't life grand when you can make your own decisions? Love thy enemies. No thanks. I'd rather kick them in the balls.
If he is a reformed man, why can he not be forgiven? What if he was innocent, too? Some men are accused of sexual assault when they didn't. It is a very serious crime to be accused of, and even the innocent men lose everything. If they are guilty, and they reform, they should have the right to have a semi-normal life, at least.
I think that all drugs should be legalized. It's a violation of the constitution to imprison someone for having/using a drug just becasue some tight-wad doesn't like it.
The constitution says that any power not given to the federal government in the constitution is reserved to the STATES or to the PEOPLE. so any FEDERAL drug law is unconstitutional. If a state wants to pass a drug law thats a different matter, but I still disagree with it. California thinks that marijuana should be legal but you have stupid feds going in and making arrests.
Once you have paid your debt to society it should be in the past, my cousin gets out in 2 yrs. after spending 6 yrs. in federal prison for pot. He's great person, but he'll be 35 and have nothing, he never hurt anyone and he'll have to work twice as hard to be treated half as good(yes, i know drugs are bad, but it's a free country, right?).
He's an architect and dear friend who raped a 9 yr old girl in a hotel. He wasn't babysitting the little girl. He now decides that he's going to a run a new business in Day Care and he's begging you help his new business get started. Do you send your 9 yr old daughter?
Yours is not more sound. When I say, "able to restrain", I mean by any means available; rehab, psychotherapy, castration, etc, etc. I hope whatever he chooses to make it happen works in order to protect the rest of society. He has fooled you once, shame on him. Whose shame is it if he fools you again? I wish him good luck. But I'm not willing to take that chance.
I just wrote a comment on another video with a similar thesis: a known pederastic pastor started a Bible camp, and I said that it was proper to try to get his donors not to help him. Key distinction: this pederast was putting himself in a pederast's heaven.
I agree with you. You are a pig. You should buy his services. Fortunately, if he is still alive, you can prove that you're your own man and correct your mistake. Showtime owns some of your services, not you.
Let me answer your question Penn and I think you will agree since I share most of your opinions.
Just because he did his time as per the judicial system, society has no obligation to accept him. Live free (and be able to voice your own opinions) or die. In your case, someone gave you some good business advice. You can live free and call him, not call him and live with the consequences.
It's just like all the bullshit with Michael Vick.
Also, sex crime laws are complete bullshit for this reason. An 18 year old can have sex with a 17 year old and do time because the judge is a fucking idiot and for the rest of his life people will treat him like a child rapist because he's a "registered sex offender". Complete B S.
Our prison system is not designed to rehabilitate. It is designed to protect those who follow the rules from those who do not.
When we lock our doors at night, it is as much to keep us inside as it is to keep strangers who may cause us harm outside. To have security, we give up freedom, but we tell ourselves we didn't wanna go outside anyway so we don't need that freedom right now. We'd rather feel secure.
I'm not describing what's morally right or wrong here. I'm just describing what is.
Just a little factoid: sex offenders have a 99% repeat offender rate. Sure there's a chance that this guy made a one time mistake. But it's far more likely that he's a scumbag that gets off on doing terrible things to people. You may feel bad now, but you'd probably feel a whole lot worse having to testify against this guy if he returns to this behavior.
He made a video about it a while back. But here's the short of it: When he was a kid he was doing magic tricks for his Mom, and his mom stated that he should keep his hands nice because his audience would be staring at them as a magician. So the next day he took her fingernail polish and did up all his fingers, well, since then he's kept the one finger that was for his Mom.
Ok and it is like this..You know the guy..or thought ya did...you CAN NOT think bad of yourself because of his actions..You really don't know people if you don't live with them and dig thru all their shit.....I know it hurts because you thought you trust him...but what you see in people first, is not what you always get behind closed doors!
PPenn, you seem to skate around the severity of the crime involved in order to make your point.
Fact is a sex crime will follow him for the rest of his life, there will always be consequences
We have built shunning into the punishment, and as a former acquaintance you need to judge, based on the crime, did he have an early Tracy Lords video, or rape a 6 year old? One he is welcome to still work with me, the other he can fuck off & die broke in the gutter.
Everyone is certainly free to be as magnanimous as they feel comfortable. I'm not going to be made to feel guilt over my desire to keep certain types of people outside my circle. You give him your 2nd chance and I'll give him my 2nd chance. My 2nd chance is simply a hope that he actually is able to restrain his demons and have a productive life away from the people I'm obligated to protect.
I feel a person's choices, criminal or not, should not impact their contributions to a separate part of society.
A problem that this video doesn't point out is that being labeled a "sex offender" is a heavy name. Are they a sex offender for raping seventeen little boys in their basement? Or was it a case mentioned earlier about two 15 year olds sending naked pictures to each other?
"I feel a person's choices, criminal or not, should not impact their contributions to a separate part of society."
So, if a person was convicted of raping a 9 yr old girl and "pays his debt to society", would you invite him to babysit your 9 yr old daughter everyday while you're at work?
Here's a hypothetical for you. Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, Thomas Edison committed a crime, let's say a sex offense as it's defined today. Would you stop using all your light bulbs because the inventor fooled around with little girls? Would you refute everything else a man contributes because of a mistake he made in his own privacy?
I strive to avoid buying products made in China because of what they did. It's impractical to avoid completely, but I try. If Thomas Edison had done something depraved and despicable like raping a 9 yr old girl, I would certainly look for competitors.
There's something special about a conviction for certain kinds of depravity. The rate of recidivism for pedophilia is abnormally high suggesting something beyond simple criminal pathology or misguided decision making. If my best friend murdered his wife or sexually molested his daughter, I would disown him and not feel guilt. If an occasional friend and vendor had done so, disowning him would be easier.
When a criminal is released from prison, rehabilitation is assumed. Otherwise, it's an affront to civil liberties.
Unfortunately, people with criminal records can be and are seen as outsiders, especially known sex offenders. It seems to be ingrained in our society that criminal records are associated with evil, even though there are many cases in which a criminal record has no bearing on a person's moral character.
It's how society works... Society ostracizes those that do not comply to the morals set by society. They are cast out. It doesn't matter they served time. Society doesn't want them back. Primitive man would exile or kill those people. It's nature.
Good point. If society says you have served your time (been rehabilitated) then you should be able to attempt to earn an honest living.
other point: Arent we getting sick of lawmakers trying to turn sex into a crime? Are we really this prude of a country that we are scarred by sex and nudity? I mean some of the things I have seen people prosecuted for under the heading of "sex crimes" are ridiculous.
You are on to something here.Till the 1930's it was not a crime, to have relations,or sex with a minor 13 or more.We live longer so society, and government says wooo not happenin.
The thing that gets me worked up the most is when these crazy District Attorneys go after the kids themselves.
like when two 15 year olds text naked pics to each other. I think they are acting stupidly but that is for their individual parents to deal with, NOT for some DA to label them as a sex offeneder for the rest of their lives. That is just ludicrous!!
Tell me about it,I thought it was me and that made me some kinda of turd.If the persons involved in the act are of equal age.HELLO.God I am so wound I need a pill.
Once the guy has done his time, that should be it. Stop listening to your staff and do what you feel is right.
In the last couple of decades this country has let the fanatics control all our views on 'sex crimes', and like all fanatics, they will never be satisfied. They've turned sexual offenses into superstitious taboos, such that any contact with the 'unclean' will spread the taint to you.
This is the sort of mentality you've always stood ungainst. You shouldn't give into it now.
I'm completely ignorant to how showbiz works let alone how Vegas works. But I would think that you and Teller have enough respect in that town to be able to make your own decisions.
If I were in your shoes I would tell "the office people" exactly what you said in this video. Without you and Teller they have no act. If the guy has good work it shouldn't matter what crime he has already paid for.
Again I'm clueless to showbiz. The office could hold all the power.
Do yourself a favor... pick up the phone and call him. That is the first step to dropping the bricks. Otherwise don't give a shit and move on. Life isn't always about money....
Don't be so hard on yourself. Have someone else look at his tricks, let them buy them then see if you can buy them after that. It's great you say your a pig but your not helping that guy get back into society. He paid his due. Isn't part of your gig to change and enlighten us? aka society? Get vids.
this is what thoughtfull people do and what christians don't understand. a very nonchristian lesson can be learned from this bullshit...we can all be wrong and not pray to a pretend best friend for guidance. fuck up once, admit to it and pay for it, do it again and fuck you.
Forgiveness is something us Christians are supposed to do best yet the majority is Christian and fail to do that themselves. We are all Pigs Penn. Every last one of us.
Forgiveness must be hardwired into us... or else we will keep acting like savage beasts whom only wish to conquer the world.
We much rather focus on someones mistakes then achievements. There is nothing you can do Penn... you at least let him know you care if he sees this.
wtf that was relly fuck up maybe you should give him a shot now if it's eating you up inside. Fuck your enemies theres only this one life and how we live it to the point when we die is what matters and i for one don't want to think about the wornge things i done to people that i never made right.
Meh. I think society is allowed to shun people of they wish. I think they should, if society as a whole deems a persons crime to be particularly terrible. That's still the free market. People don't serve their time to society - they serve it to the state, be it a state government or the federal government. They don't have a right to be accepted by society when they get out.
I always hated how the sex offenders get treated after getting out of prison or even being found not-guilty. If there is ANY press at all about someone doing a sex offense, they're life is over. Period. No one will hire them. And the crime to get labeled as a "sex offender" is so minor, that I'm sure at some point or another 50% of the population commited it. All you need to do is be 18 and have sex with your GF who is 17 in a state that doesnt have the 5year rule. The system is a joke.
I think what Penn is having problems with is: just because he did his time, and "society" says he's a free man, doesn't necessarily mean he, himself, is ok with it. He's just being honest with himself. I feel bad for him actually. He seems pretty torn up about the issue.
If his sex offence was to a child then there is no amount of time that will bring forgiveness to him. Too many things though are called sex offences that really are nothing more than misdemeanors; that's BULL SHIT.
Huge pig - although a sex-offense immediately makes someone a social pariah, societal pressure and mob mentality tends to force people who otherwise wouldn't hold such issues against someone to do so, usually out of fear of persecution themselves. Penn, you bastion of pure freedom, sprout some balls, call your friend. SCREW SOCIETY.
3 words Pee Wee Herman. Im not in the entertainment business but his career was tossed in the toilet for just whacking off. I would be his friend but I wouldnt shake his hand.
Yeeeah, kinda a pig. Especially since he totally believe ex cons need to be allowed to find honest work. Haha. But the way I look at it, there's no shame in doing what you gotta do to stay gainfully employed, what the hell would Penn do if he didn't do magic or his bullshit show, haha.
I would love to have the opportunity to own my own business and employ ex cons, but if I made my money being a performer and doing a TV show, I think I'd make the same call Penn did.
See, this is Penn's rational approach going against a mob's emotional response. There are TONS of registered sex offenders who dated girls that were too young when they were 18. Then, the whole RSO rap followed them for the rest of their life, forcing them to fulfill this role society imposed on them.
Any punishment that outlives the term of the sentence should be unconstitutional on the grounds that it is cruel and unusual. And registration fits that description, in my opinion.
Penn, you know that what you did wasn't right, to turn your back on a fellow magician. some time we as people need to do whats right, and not whats popular. I work with people on paroll, I work on integrating them back into sociaty, everyone screws up, but give him the benefit of the doubt that he understands and is remorseful. That is all hes is asking is for someone to give him a chance to redeem himself.
If you had made it your BUSINESS to find out what he actually DID--and then based your decision on how to interact with him on THAT, in terms of your OWN judgment of right and wrong, etc., then you would NOT be such a pig.
US sex laws, especially, have been very much "religiously" based, rather than "fundamental human morality" based.
By just going "with the crowd" you show zero backbone...
I think you've clearly shown that you're understanding and forgiving. You're perhaps not as brave as you'd like to have been but you were brave enough to say that you're a sorry pig for not having more courage in this situation. I think that's worth some brownie points. I try not to put myself into situations where I will feel pressured to compromise my principles, but it's very hard and I still consider myself a coward somewhat because I compromise a lot out of fear.
Penn doesn't OWE the guy anything. But that's not what this is about. It's about the fact that this guy has some tricks that maybe they're really good tricks that Penn & Teller can use in their shows, but they won't even give the guy a meeting because of the stigma surrounding his conviction.
That sucks.
If I thought anyone would be able to get beyond that bullshit it'd be Penn.
The people that allow him to make a living and allow him to be famous enough to have a YT channel like this that people care at all about will give a fuck what other people think.
And that's the major problem. Our society is quick to idolize celebrity and at the same time, even quicker to crucify it.
Just because he "served time" doesn't mean he is owed anything. Serving time is punishment for his crime. Beyond that it has nothing to do with social contacts. Penn is acting as if he (or society) has some kind of obligation to help this man when he doesn't.
If he wants to help the guy, fine!
But if he just as soon doesn't want to have anything to do with him for his actions, that is his choice too.
As a libertarian, he should know that it doesn't make him a "pig"..
I don't think that's his point. The man is now jugged because he was in prison, regardless of the crime. We (well the justice system more then us) have decided that he has been punished for his crimes. That isn't the case however, so ether the prison system doesn't work (witch it doesn't) and people who serve time really aren't ready for introduction back into the world, or we're continuing to punish a person for a crime they have already been punished for.
I see no problem with Penns actions. Does Penn owe this guy anything? It doesnt seem so. We can choose to either have personal and business relationships with people, or not. Penn chose not to have a relationship with the guy. I guess I dont see what the big deal is.
Sex crimes are becoming a bullshit conviction anymore. They use the term to cover too much, and as a result it doesn't have the meaning to it. don't care what someone was convicted on, if they did their time give them a break.
I agree, here...The term is so broad, at this point, as to be meaningless.
I don't think that statutory rape is the same thing as pedophilia. I don't think that being seen in public naked is anywhere near as bad as the other two...Either way, they're all in the same group.
Here in California(San Diego), you can be labeled a "Sex Offender" if you pull to the side of the freeway and run into the bushes because have to pee real bad. "Exposing" yourself in "public" is enough for them to label you that way. I too..am a convicted plant grower. 5 year sentence, and you come out being labeled and registering as a drug offender for another 5 years.
The sex crime had nothing to do with you and he served his time. I feel that when someone serves time in jail we should give them the chance to prove they have changed. Because the world shouldn't be a prison for them as well. I understand and respect that this was a new problem you had and you trusted others to make the decision for you. You can make things right and feel good about it still. There is still time.
Aren't you a little above caring about what other people think about you? Has the paycheck syndrome really conquered you from even sticking up for what you believe in?
I gotta say call him. I know you can't associate with this guy for business purposes because your income (therefore your kids' well-being) is at stake, but if you can stick it to the BSA you can stick it to media if they badmouth about associating with sex offenders. This guy needs help and you have the power to help him. The inhuman thing to do would be to turn your back on him.
Good vid Penn- and good on you too. I just read an autobiography by a friend who did jail time for bank fraud and getting reintroduced into society and figuring out how to start doing business again was very important there too.
It's exactly as apt today regarding sex offenses as it was in 1850 when he wrote it.
There is literally no difference between registered sex offender databases, and forcing people to walk around with a big red "A" pinned to their clothes.
In another 150 people will look back on what we're doing today and find it as unconscionably bad as what people did two hundred years before today.
Penn, you have children. You can not associate with this man and risk your income. Talk is cheap, ideals are free, but if your two kids are hungry, they won't care if you stuck to your beliefs. It's ok to feel bad, Penn. It means that you aren't a typical Hollywood hypocrite. But don't be too hard on yourself, after all, it's only magic tricks.
Well, I think there's a simple answer to this. I know you will probably never see this, but the simple choice is to contact the guy and employ the same services you turned down. That's far better than just saying you are sorry for the treatment in the past. As an atheist as well I'm sure you realize that just feeling sorry is fucking worthless.
fuck it go for it. he served his time. if he has good ideas and willing to sell them to you, it has nothing to do with sex...fuck what people say or think. call his ass back and get his ideas.
Why not find out the details of the crime and then make a decision.The nature of the crime might carry all the weight of your decision regardless of time served.
Penn how do you see your content continuing in a post-Sony, post-Showtime world where copyright is adjusted to fit the reality of digital communication and data replication?
You seem to feel very strongly about ownership rights I was just curious if you could go into this further. For example, using a "creative commons" or similar license on your material, in the future.
And you can't call him back? Is the opportunity gone? Because you could counter all the media bullshit taking a stand for his right to work. You would have the higher moral ground.
you make a very good point. i wouldn't blame yourself, too much. but hey, secretly writing letters to apologize for all the bullshit he's being put through now that he's out couldn't hurt. what gossip columns don't know what hurt..you :P
Guns n Roses covered "look at your game" by Charles Manson, took a lot of shit, made money on that, and still did well;... at least until Axl went ape shit. Your acquaintance did his time, Fuck society. You have enough loot to do what you want Penn. That's the cool thing about being loaded. Either be the pig, or free the bacon.
never will i say that i agree with everything Penn says in these segments. but it's thinks like this that i really enjoy. he's showing that he's human and i respect it.
I love you Penn, but you're just making a video about it to make your self feel better, it's a cop out. Go to the guy and learn some new tricks.. The dude did his time for fucks sake..
It's part of societies punishment beyond the courts. If I knew a man murdered his first wife, do you expect me to date him? Even if you've done your time, you may still repeat the crime.
They do the same thing to those who join the military and don't make the cut. If you get in trouble, you get a dishonorable discharge, which you couldn't even get a job from McDonalds with. If you just can't cope with military life they'll give you an Other than Honorable Discharge, which may has well be called a Dishonorable. You basically get a stain on your record for trying to serve your country and failing.
You lose VA benefits and your GI Bill and get thrown to the streets with little hope of finding a job. Than you have people that probably have never tried anything remotely as difficult as the military looking down on you like your a piece of shit. It's Bullshit that it should even show up on back round checks. I used to feel bad for those guys that got kicked out for stupid shit in the military. Because I knew that they were pretty much screwed.
You don't have to declare your criminal back round when applying for a job. If they do a back round check and find out you lied, that's when they have the right to fire you...If i'm not mistaken. So just don't do anything that would warrant a back round check.
I would treat the guy like any other business transaction. You don't have to associate with him personally or be friends with the dude. Let him pitch the idea, keep it strictly business, and don't bring it up.
Penn, you have to make the right business decisions. Anything else would be a betrayal of all those whom your show employws as well as those who get useful info from your program. You would be risking their financial well being if you were to associate with this person. Reality is sometimes a b*t**; actions have consequences. This person committed an act that carries societal reprecussions such as the ones he is now experiencing. He can redeem himself but he'll have to work twice as hard.Reality
Think about it this way: if someone shoplifts when they're 15, gets caught, learns the error of his ways and never does it again, should he have to introduce himself as a thief to every neighbor he has for the rest of his life? Should you have the right to know his criminal history before deciding whether you're going to associate with him?
What if instead of shoplifting at 15, they broke into a home and robbed a family at gunpoint? Not all crimes are the same, and I don't think everything is forgivable. That's why I said that I would want to know the circumstances of his crime before I made a decision.
Either way, for you to make that decision you would have to be privy to EVERYONE'S complete criminal history before meeting them. Not possible, and even if it were, not desirable.
If your point is that you can't judge people on things you don't know about, then guess what? EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS THAT. That doesn't mean that you can't judge them on things that you do know about.
If I already know that someone has served time in prison for being committed of a sex crime, it's not unreasonable for me to want to know the circumstances of that crime before deciding whether or not I want to associate with that person. If they choose not to tell me, then I can choose not to associate with them.
That's true, and it would not be unreasonable for you to ask the person. However, it would not be reasonable for them to be legally required to bring the subject up, and for that to be the very first conversation that the two of you have.
You know Penn I was thinking about that too one day, some people get a "sex offender" status for mooning someone on the highway. I read an article about that once, actually got jailtime. Can you imagine mooning someone as a 16 year old and having it count the same as one of those "flashers" or whatever and you have to tell your neighbors for the rest of your life that you are a sex offender? On top of that, trying to get hired after that is a bitch all because of mooning someone?
Your bravery is evident in the posting of this video. Most people would've never mentioned a god damned word about something like this. I commend you!!
WEll simply put...hes not supposed to do much of anything except get involved with people who can either use his services indirectly with no noticeable attachment to him personally, or hes supposed to work doing the shit work. Lets face it hes a sex offender. People want to control the world, making it better for themselves, so they act indirectly(through denial of employment) in the hopes that his person will be marginalized sufficiently and/or hopefully kill themselves.
vidfreak56 3 months ago
This sounds like an apology.
SezSays 9 months ago
To all those saying "buy his services": for what? A valet? Penn's not the only stakeholder in his show, you know...
And I would say it definitely makes a difference what the nature of the crime was. There's a lot of distance between taking advantage of some horny, stupid teenager and raping someone, or molesting a child too young to understand what's going on, but a lot of the time our system can't tell the difference. Although even a rapist needs a job, even if he doesn't deserve it.
IoEstasCedonta 11 months ago
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VelariValencia 1 year ago
Bravo... But sorry would be enough far a hypocrite Christian. Penn, may be this guy still can use your help!
Matismatt 1 year ago
@Matismatt hate much?
cassidy99ful 1 year ago
@cassidy99ful what are you talking about?
Matismatt 1 year ago
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
pennsays 1 year ago
@pennsays
Does this mean ALL of Penn Says youtube videos are open to all countries now?
davcar23 1 year ago
couragous and self examining, thanks penn. bs turned me on to libertarianism. in my own judeo - christian upbringing, i learned there is almost nothing that can seperate us from redemption by the author of life. the crime was real and had awefull effects. but welcome the man back. hear his ideas. give hime a sense of community. but of course never condone harm to childeren let him know there is an "untouchable stigma" for a reason.
seabee75 1 year ago
consensual relationship have sex in a state where the age of consent is 17. If we're referring to true rape, not statutory rape, or something truly fucked up like an older adult (say 40) having sex with a child (say 11) even if they somehow claim it was consensual, that's an entirely different situation. And 5 years? 5 fucking years of his life for what *might* have been a victimless crime? If you're sorry, contact the guy. Give him the chance to change his life if you really feel that way.
tehlinebeginstoblur 2 years ago
What I don't understand is why you didn't find out more about the specific crime. Those who will prosecute/hate/whatever you for associating with someone under the blanket term "sex offender", with no ability to see other points of view, are going to be that way anyway. I agree with the above poster - you said "underage sex", which is one of the mildest and last on the list of "really bad" sex crimes. That is, if consensual. Say, for instance, a 16 year old and a 20 year old who are in a
tehlinebeginstoblur 2 years ago
Lol...er...I meant persecute, not prosecute.
tehlinebeginstoblur 2 years ago
Underage sex is really mild. "statutory" as in "not really" rape. Something bad sexual would be a serial rapist who tortures and kills his victims. That'd be a suprise having you say, "he seemed like such a nice guy...". What sex crime's milder than underage sex? Flashing?
You've a lot of sympathy Penn. 40 Hail Marys out to clear up the guilt. That's a lot of football. Couldn't you correct the problem? Seek him out and buy his services now.
Kogerii 2 years ago
All time done is not equal - boycotting on a moral/rational basis is good. it would have been better if you knew what the crime was so you could actually make a moral/rational choice...
corenothing 2 years ago
Agree that it's rougher on sex offenders since it's about the only crime ppl won't forgive. That is tho the sort of thing you have to think about when you get involved in those crimes. The ONLY time its tough is I know a teenage girl who consented to have relations with her adult bf at the time, she lied about her age but he still did 25 years. Another friend was mudered, 6 years for their murderer.
One crime has to register for life and another does not and is less time?
meestaree 2 years ago
@meestaree I would disagree that it's the only crime that people won't forgive. Check out Penn's post on Michael Vick.
pennsays 1 year ago
Do you do a background check on everyone you associate with? You could be talking to ex-felons all the time, couldn't you? I think it would suck having to screen who you talk to.
I agree with the sentiment though. That's exactly why recidivism is so high. People resort to crime again and again because, often, it can be the only way to eat. That's not hyperbole either. Fast food does background checks for cryin' out loud.
rrpostalagain 2 years ago
I am surprised unapproved sex would scare Penn, but he is beholden to the sponsors and others, so imagine he doesn't want to be too selfish and try to bend his associates to his whim all the time.
l337pwnage 2 years ago
Your human. Haven't lost any respect for you. Btw I think this you-tube thing you have going is pretty awesome. Hope to see more.
locsphere 2 years ago
Respect for having the balls to say who you are and wear it honestly.
kittenclaws 2 years ago
Fuck what people think. Look the only people who are going to be pissed if you associate with him already hate you, so what's the loss? Make up for a fuck up and contact him again.
LokixOwnsU 2 years ago
May as well put a bullet in his head. All he is left to think about is his sex crime - society insures that is the case. So, society releases him to do it again, wtf? Society seems confused on the issue. The socially conscious thing to do would be to help him live a responsible life, but that is too much work. Guess we are all pigs.
bitRAKE 2 years ago
Hey Penn, big fan, and I doubt you read these, but why haven't you found out what he actually did? If you feel so bad about it and everything, that seems like the least you could do. Shouldn't be too difficult.
stritefast 2 years ago
Yeah, that's fucked up. Shop his fucking trick, seriously, he's served his time and he is back now to society trying to get back on his fucking feet. There is no excuse for punishing again someone who has already served their time, no matter the offense.
marcelB612 2 years ago
Fuck man! I don't really know what to say to make it seem better. I mean... He did his time, he paid his debt to socitity. But ... Fuck I can feel what you feel man as far as the what should I do .. .Ah shit man it is a shit situation n matter what way you cut it.
caveman73 2 years ago
Well Penn you could have atleast had your staff find out the specifics of what he was convicted of before you decided to seel him out........
I mean yes if he raped some kid then forget he exists but if he had sex with a 17 year old girl that says you have to be 18 then maybe thats somewhat forgivable?
ConservativeAtheist 2 years ago
Just shop one of his tricks Penn. Who gives a fuck what people think? If a man has done his time, he's done his time. It's not like you're chilling with a wanted felon.
Vilemk0 2 years ago 3
Justice fallows rules that are supposed to be moral but that are not. They are laws which are wanabe moral laws convoluted by administration, pragmatism, politic and biases. In one country he took 5 years, in another he would have taken 10 in another he would not have went to jail. What is considered serving his time is very relative. Now U feel bad for him at some level, it is human. This society feels that sex offenders should pay all their life and do not believe they can change.
shaihulud777 2 years ago
Now is it your battle? are U willing to risk your company reputation, the well being of the people in this company perhaps the well being of your family? I guess not and it is fine, u can not fight every battle. I guess this video is an explanation and a mea culpa. Well in 1 month guilt will have fainted, you will barely remember it. Sometime the horror of pragmatism keeps U from wasting your time, your life. (everything is relative to what U think your battles are).
shaihulud777 2 years ago
His time will never be server. Ask the person he raped. I bet that person is still dealing with all the shit he did years ago. You rape a person FUCK you the state should hang your ass. Sorry Penn I still love your videos.
goppatriots 2 years ago
when did Penn ever say that the person he was talking about raped someone? In fact, Penn stated several times he has no idea what this person was sent to jail for, except that it was a sex crime--which encompasses anything even remotely related to sex. I'm not excusing that person's behavior in any way, just pointing out that you shouldn't jump to such a harsh conclusion having zero facts to go on.
murphydexter311 2 years ago 3
the federal government was given very limited powers. the constitution says they can do various things. their power is limited to those things. it does not give them the power to take our freedoms from us. most laws were meant to be done on the state level. the constitution gives us the freedom to pursue happiness. if it makes someone happy to smoke pot then keeping them from smoking it is violating their constitutional rights.
dianddra999 2 years ago
Dear Mr. Jillette. I don't know if you read these or not. I would like to think that since you put your opinions out there you would read the comments, but I don't know. Anyway I would just like to say that, I am a Christian that has been watching a few of your Penn Says videos and find them quite interesting, but this one has me stumped. I would have thought that, out of all people, you would say "F@ck it! And not care what your"Enemies" think. A bit disappointing really.
jehjeh3712 2 years ago
Forgiveness. Unless you're a Christian, you don't have to forgive anybody you don't want to, whether they deserve to be forgiven or not. Isn't life grand when you can make your own decisions? Love thy enemies. No thanks. I'd rather kick them in the balls.
dualisticnature 2 years ago
How about this for everybody? I don't know the guy. Never met him, so I don't care. His problem. Not mine. Some things are just too easy. LMAO
But what if you did? Well, what if pigs fly out of my ass? LMAO
Too easy. I could see why it would cross Penn's mind, but not the rest of ya.
dualisticnature 2 years ago
If he is a reformed man, why can he not be forgiven? What if he was innocent, too? Some men are accused of sexual assault when they didn't. It is a very serious crime to be accused of, and even the innocent men lose everything. If they are guilty, and they reform, they should have the right to have a semi-normal life, at least.
incognitololita 2 years ago 2
Preach On! I think you have to forgive people for them to move on. If you treat them like criminals they will repeat.
anthonyspinali 2 years ago
I think that all drugs should be legalized. It's a violation of the constitution to imprison someone for having/using a drug just becasue some tight-wad doesn't like it.
dianddra999 2 years ago
I agree that all drugs should be legalized, but what part of the constitution forbids the enforcement of drug laws?
uberjim83 2 years ago
The constitution says that any power not given to the federal government in the constitution is reserved to the STATES or to the PEOPLE. so any FEDERAL drug law is unconstitutional. If a state wants to pass a drug law thats a different matter, but I still disagree with it. California thinks that marijuana should be legal but you have stupid feds going in and making arrests.
dianddra999 2 years ago
Is the power to make federal laws not granted to the federal government in the constitution? I had thought that it was.
uberjim83 2 years ago
Once you have paid your debt to society it should be in the past, my cousin gets out in 2 yrs. after spending 6 yrs. in federal prison for pot. He's great person, but he'll be 35 and have nothing, he never hurt anyone and he'll have to work twice as hard to be treated half as good(yes, i know drugs are bad, but it's a free country, right?).
86COLE 2 years ago
He's an architect and dear friend who raped a 9 yr old girl in a hotel. He wasn't babysitting the little girl. He now decides that he's going to a run a new business in Day Care and he's begging you help his new business get started. Do you send your 9 yr old daughter?
yegreskin 2 years ago
Yours is not more sound. When I say, "able to restrain", I mean by any means available; rehab, psychotherapy, castration, etc, etc. I hope whatever he chooses to make it happen works in order to protect the rest of society. He has fooled you once, shame on him. Whose shame is it if he fools you again? I wish him good luck. But I'm not willing to take that chance.
yegreskin 2 years ago
I just wrote a comment on another video with a similar thesis: a known pederastic pastor started a Bible camp, and I said that it was proper to try to get his donors not to help him. Key distinction: this pederast was putting himself in a pederast's heaven.
I agree with you. You are a pig. You should buy his services. Fortunately, if he is still alive, you can prove that you're your own man and correct your mistake. Showtime owns some of your services, not you.
kencomer 2 years ago
Let me answer your question Penn and I think you will agree since I share most of your opinions.
Just because he did his time as per the judicial system, society has no obligation to accept him. Live free (and be able to voice your own opinions) or die. In your case, someone gave you some good business advice. You can live free and call him, not call him and live with the consequences.
SailTCB 2 years ago
oops. it's spelled civilization.
toddsarah30 2 years ago
"What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea.--Mohandas K. Gandhi
toddsarah30 2 years ago
It's just like all the bullshit with Michael Vick.
Also, sex crime laws are complete bullshit for this reason. An 18 year old can have sex with a 17 year old and do time because the judge is a fucking idiot and for the rest of his life people will treat him like a child rapist because he's a "registered sex offender". Complete B S.
jlan12 2 years ago
Our prison system is not designed to rehabilitate. It is designed to protect those who follow the rules from those who do not.
When we lock our doors at night, it is as much to keep us inside as it is to keep strangers who may cause us harm outside. To have security, we give up freedom, but we tell ourselves we didn't wanna go outside anyway so we don't need that freedom right now. We'd rather feel secure.
I'm not describing what's morally right or wrong here. I'm just describing what is.
ZachsMind 2 years ago
Just a little factoid: sex offenders have a 99% repeat offender rate. Sure there's a chance that this guy made a one time mistake. But it's far more likely that he's a scumbag that gets off on doing terrible things to people. You may feel bad now, but you'd probably feel a whole lot worse having to testify against this guy if he returns to this behavior.
tiredblock 2 years ago
Okay,
What is with the red polished fingernail? I have noticed it for YEARS.
I read somewhere that Sammy Davis Jr. did that very same thing for a specific reason.
Yours? If it is any of our business.....
NOMOREMARTIANS 2 years ago
He made a video about it a while back. But here's the short of it: When he was a kid he was doing magic tricks for his Mom, and his mom stated that he should keep his hands nice because his audience would be staring at them as a magician. So the next day he took her fingernail polish and did up all his fingers, well, since then he's kept the one finger that was for his Mom.
lieutenantflufy 2 years ago
your just human dude, and society makes it very difficult to be that when you are famous.
ubetcha13 2 years ago
Well, gee, it's not too late to call him. It's never too late til you're dead.
MaryOMackie 2 years ago
OK I just noticed that your left ring finger nail (WeddingRingFinger) is painted red..WTF!!!...
savemefrommyselves 2 years ago
Ok and it is like this..You know the guy..or thought ya did...you CAN NOT think bad of yourself because of his actions..You really don't know people if you don't live with them and dig thru all their shit.....I know it hurts because you thought you trust him...but what you see in people first, is not what you always get behind closed doors!
savemefrommyselves 2 years ago
PPenn, you seem to skate around the severity of the crime involved in order to make your point.
Fact is a sex crime will follow him for the rest of his life, there will always be consequences
We have built shunning into the punishment, and as a former acquaintance you need to judge, based on the crime, did he have an early Tracy Lords video, or rape a 6 year old? One he is welcome to still work with me, the other he can fuck off & die broke in the gutter.
James92802 2 years ago 2
Everyone is certainly free to be as magnanimous as they feel comfortable. I'm not going to be made to feel guilt over my desire to keep certain types of people outside my circle. You give him your 2nd chance and I'll give him my 2nd chance. My 2nd chance is simply a hope that he actually is able to restrain his demons and have a productive life away from the people I'm obligated to protect.
yegreskin 2 years ago
I feel a person's choices, criminal or not, should not impact their contributions to a separate part of society.
A problem that this video doesn't point out is that being labeled a "sex offender" is a heavy name. Are they a sex offender for raping seventeen little boys in their basement? Or was it a case mentioned earlier about two 15 year olds sending naked pictures to each other?
ssj001 2 years ago
"I feel a person's choices, criminal or not, should not impact their contributions to a separate part of society."
So, if a person was convicted of raping a 9 yr old girl and "pays his debt to society", would you invite him to babysit your 9 yr old daughter everyday while you're at work?
yegreskin 2 years ago
Exactly as ManicStreetStevO said.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, Thomas Edison committed a crime, let's say a sex offense as it's defined today. Would you stop using all your light bulbs because the inventor fooled around with little girls? Would you refute everything else a man contributes because of a mistake he made in his own privacy?
ssj001 2 years ago
I strive to avoid buying products made in China because of what they did. It's impractical to avoid completely, but I try. If Thomas Edison had done something depraved and despicable like raping a 9 yr old girl, I would certainly look for competitors.
yegreskin 2 years ago
There's something special about a conviction for certain kinds of depravity. The rate of recidivism for pedophilia is abnormally high suggesting something beyond simple criminal pathology or misguided decision making. If my best friend murdered his wife or sexually molested his daughter, I would disown him and not feel guilt. If an occasional friend and vendor had done so, disowning him would be easier.
yegreskin 2 years ago
When a criminal is released from prison, rehabilitation is assumed. Otherwise, it's an affront to civil liberties.
Unfortunately, people with criminal records can be and are seen as outsiders, especially known sex offenders. It seems to be ingrained in our society that criminal records are associated with evil, even though there are many cases in which a criminal record has no bearing on a person's moral character.
People make mistakes, that's part of being human.
LanceKibagari 2 years ago
Heavy vid man. But I think it's nature's own way of punishing "outsiders."
People have a built in reaction, even when they've done time it sticks with them. Who knows.
studybox 2 years ago
It's how society works... Society ostracizes those that do not comply to the morals set by society. They are cast out. It doesn't matter they served time. Society doesn't want them back. Primitive man would exile or kill those people. It's nature.
Onodera1980 2 years ago 2
@Onodera1980 'Rape' and 'murder' are nature too, ironically enough.
JoeDeceiver 1 year ago
talk about your recent role as yourself in Futurama.
Petethegreat36 2 years ago
Good point. If society says you have served your time (been rehabilitated) then you should be able to attempt to earn an honest living.
other point: Arent we getting sick of lawmakers trying to turn sex into a crime? Are we really this prude of a country that we are scarred by sex and nudity? I mean some of the things I have seen people prosecuted for under the heading of "sex crimes" are ridiculous.
timthecop 2 years ago
You are on to something here.Till the 1930's it was not a crime, to have relations,or sex with a minor 13 or more.We live longer so society, and government says wooo not happenin.
TheAdwchez 2 years ago
The thing that gets me worked up the most is when these crazy District Attorneys go after the kids themselves.
like when two 15 year olds text naked pics to each other. I think they are acting stupidly but that is for their individual parents to deal with, NOT for some DA to label them as a sex offeneder for the rest of their lives. That is just ludicrous!!
timthecop 2 years ago
Tell me about it,I thought it was me and that made me some kinda of turd.If the persons involved in the act are of equal age.HELLO.God I am so wound I need a pill.
TheAdwchez 2 years ago
When I first saw the title, I thought this was going to be an apology for blocking these videos outside the US. No such luck.
I live in the US, but I am still appalled by this policy.
kittyprydekissme 2 years ago
Once the guy has done his time, that should be it. Stop listening to your staff and do what you feel is right.
In the last couple of decades this country has let the fanatics control all our views on 'sex crimes', and like all fanatics, they will never be satisfied. They've turned sexual offenses into superstitious taboos, such that any contact with the 'unclean' will spread the taint to you.
This is the sort of mentality you've always stood ungainst. You shouldn't give into it now.
kittyprydekissme 2 years ago
I'm completely ignorant to how showbiz works let alone how Vegas works. But I would think that you and Teller have enough respect in that town to be able to make your own decisions.
If I were in your shoes I would tell "the office people" exactly what you said in this video. Without you and Teller they have no act. If the guy has good work it shouldn't matter what crime he has already paid for.
Again I'm clueless to showbiz. The office could hold all the power.
AnAverageSkeptic 2 years ago
Do yourself a favor... pick up the phone and call him. That is the first step to dropping the bricks. Otherwise don't give a shit and move on. Life isn't always about money....
luxordeathbed 2 years ago
Don't be so hard on yourself. Have someone else look at his tricks, let them buy them then see if you can buy them after that. It's great you say your a pig but your not helping that guy get back into society. He paid his due. Isn't part of your gig to change and enlighten us? aka society? Get vids.
corona11 2 years ago
this is what thoughtfull people do and what christians don't understand. a very nonchristian lesson can be learned from this bullshit...we can all be wrong and not pray to a pretend best friend for guidance. fuck up once, admit to it and pay for it, do it again and fuck you.
freddydaddy69 2 years ago
Penn,
If you can't stand by your principles during the times it is toughest. Then do they matter?
DrtyFck 2 years ago
Forgiveness is something us Christians are supposed to do best yet the majority is Christian and fail to do that themselves. We are all Pigs Penn. Every last one of us.
Forgiveness must be hardwired into us... or else we will keep acting like savage beasts whom only wish to conquer the world.
We much rather focus on someones mistakes then achievements. There is nothing you can do Penn... you at least let him know you care if he sees this.
wildthunder009 2 years ago
Sorry I could not see the video due to copyright restrictions. Is this about somebody that recently made the news in the US?
animevet 2 years ago
wtf that was relly fuck up maybe you should give him a shot now if it's eating you up inside. Fuck your enemies theres only this one life and how we live it to the point when we die is what matters and i for one don't want to think about the wornge things i done to people that i never made right.
LORDNAG1 2 years ago
Penn, I need to at least give you props for being open and honest.
I am not sure I have an answer to your dilemma, except that appears that you, too, are human.
JayTarnoff 2 years ago 2
Meh. I think society is allowed to shun people of they wish. I think they should, if society as a whole deems a persons crime to be particularly terrible. That's still the free market. People don't serve their time to society - they serve it to the state, be it a state government or the federal government. They don't have a right to be accepted by society when they get out.
TheJoyfulCynic 2 years ago
lol i was reading The god delusion and it mentioned you the bullet trick
lol
Mokenofrs 2 years ago
You're a dick, and know it. Weird feeling, isn't it?
acllaim 2 years ago
why can't i see the vedio?
LORDNAG1 2 years ago
"Done his time" is different from "on parole/probation".
TristandIsolde 2 years ago
I always hated how the sex offenders get treated after getting out of prison or even being found not-guilty. If there is ANY press at all about someone doing a sex offense, they're life is over. Period. No one will hire them. And the crime to get labeled as a "sex offender" is so minor, that I'm sure at some point or another 50% of the population commited it. All you need to do is be 18 and have sex with your GF who is 17 in a state that doesnt have the 5year rule. The system is a joke.
zippolight2002 2 years ago 2
Who is this person?
animevet 2 years ago
...sad... :(
skepticallypwnd 2 years ago
I think what Penn is having problems with is: just because he did his time, and "society" says he's a free man, doesn't necessarily mean he, himself, is ok with it. He's just being honest with himself. I feel bad for him actually. He seems pretty torn up about the issue.
etzel33 2 years ago
If his sex offence was to a child then there is no amount of time that will bring forgiveness to him. Too many things though are called sex offences that really are nothing more than misdemeanors; that's BULL SHIT.
MsWanderer1 2 years ago 2
And here I am, just proud of Penn for getting all this said, which is so much more than a lot of other celebrities/public figures would do.
espaceman000 2 years ago
Huge pig - although a sex-offense immediately makes someone a social pariah, societal pressure and mob mentality tends to force people who otherwise wouldn't hold such issues against someone to do so, usually out of fear of persecution themselves. Penn, you bastion of pure freedom, sprout some balls, call your friend. SCREW SOCIETY.
BlackIceOldGuy 2 years ago
If it really bothers Penn that much, i would hope he remembers he can always change his mind...
rudenoodle 2 years ago
Meet the guy, take the heat from the media, then do a Bullshit! episode about it.
jppianoguy 2 years ago 3
Yeah, tell Penn to do that. Be brave, be forgiving, take on the bastards who try to make him look bad for doing it.
merlin4012 2 years ago
3 words Pee Wee Herman. Im not in the entertainment business but his career was tossed in the toilet for just whacking off. I would be his friend but I wouldnt shake his hand.
Bloodhammer1967 2 years ago 3
Yeeeah, kinda a pig. Especially since he totally believe ex cons need to be allowed to find honest work. Haha. But the way I look at it, there's no shame in doing what you gotta do to stay gainfully employed, what the hell would Penn do if he didn't do magic or his bullshit show, haha.
I would love to have the opportunity to own my own business and employ ex cons, but if I made my money being a performer and doing a TV show, I think I'd make the same call Penn did.
rayray695 2 years ago
See, this is Penn's rational approach going against a mob's emotional response. There are TONS of registered sex offenders who dated girls that were too young when they were 18. Then, the whole RSO rap followed them for the rest of their life, forcing them to fulfill this role society imposed on them.
Any punishment that outlives the term of the sentence should be unconstitutional on the grounds that it is cruel and unusual. And registration fits that description, in my opinion.
edgeofblade 2 years ago
Penn, you know that what you did wasn't right, to turn your back on a fellow magician. some time we as people need to do whats right, and not whats popular. I work with people on paroll, I work on integrating them back into sociaty, everyone screws up, but give him the benefit of the doubt that he understands and is remorseful. That is all hes is asking is for someone to give him a chance to redeem himself.
williamiwu 2 years ago
Wow you sir are a coward tell you cock eating lawyers to foff and through his poor guy a bone, Jesus if you dont then who will.
jgrowley3 2 years ago 2
Yup, you are (a bit) of a fucking pig.
If you had made it your BUSINESS to find out what he actually DID--and then based your decision on how to interact with him on THAT, in terms of your OWN judgment of right and wrong, etc., then you would NOT be such a pig.
US sex laws, especially, have been very much "religiously" based, rather than "fundamental human morality" based.
By just going "with the crowd" you show zero backbone...
GetMeThere1 2 years ago 2
Cutting ex-cons off like that only increases the chances of more criminal acts.
lordcheetah 2 years ago 3
I think you've clearly shown that you're understanding and forgiving. You're perhaps not as brave as you'd like to have been but you were brave enough to say that you're a sorry pig for not having more courage in this situation. I think that's worth some brownie points. I try not to put myself into situations where I will feel pressured to compromise my principles, but it's very hard and I still consider myself a coward somewhat because I compromise a lot out of fear.
AnarchyInYourHead 2 years ago
you've realised you're pig. do something about it.
jmosler9 2 years ago 2
It would be nice if prison time = atonement, but that really isn't the case. Most sex crimes carry a lasting stigma.
If it were me, I'd look into the guys crime and go from there.
spookypen 2 years ago
Penn doesn't OWE the guy anything. But that's not what this is about. It's about the fact that this guy has some tricks that maybe they're really good tricks that Penn & Teller can use in their shows, but they won't even give the guy a meeting because of the stigma surrounding his conviction.
That sucks.
If I thought anyone would be able to get beyond that bullshit it'd be Penn.
This Penn says is a real bummer.
Penn, who gives a FUCK what other's think?
pinkshirtfarmer 2 years ago
Those who pay his checks.
CalebTheTimeTraveler 2 years ago
The people that allow him to make a living and allow him to be famous enough to have a YT channel like this that people care at all about will give a fuck what other people think.
And that's the major problem. Our society is quick to idolize celebrity and at the same time, even quicker to crucify it.
kbernstar 2 years ago
That's the shitty thing about fame and making money from being popular.
You always have to be wary of how people perceive what's right and wrong, not what is right and wrong.
svd348 2 years ago
Well said.
ReverendAtomSmasher 2 years ago
Penn, give the guy a call.
ARTOFWAR2008 2 years ago
definetly an intersting point penn makes at the end.
hellshade2 2 years ago
What mkamaryn said.
Just because he "served time" doesn't mean he is owed anything. Serving time is punishment for his crime. Beyond that it has nothing to do with social contacts. Penn is acting as if he (or society) has some kind of obligation to help this man when he doesn't.
If he wants to help the guy, fine!
But if he just as soon doesn't want to have anything to do with him for his actions, that is his choice too.
As a libertarian, he should know that it doesn't make him a "pig"..
tridentmovies 2 years ago
I don't think that's his point. The man is now jugged because he was in prison, regardless of the crime. We (well the justice system more then us) have decided that he has been punished for his crimes. That isn't the case however, so ether the prison system doesn't work (witch it doesn't) and people who serve time really aren't ready for introduction back into the world, or we're continuing to punish a person for a crime they have already been punished for.
Deusstyles 2 years ago
I see no problem with Penns actions. Does Penn owe this guy anything? It doesnt seem so. We can choose to either have personal and business relationships with people, or not. Penn chose not to have a relationship with the guy. I guess I dont see what the big deal is.
mkamaryn 2 years ago
The video was a good start, but what are you going to do about it now Penn?
pakratmak 2 years ago
Wow that really broke me up... thanks for sharing.
WatanukiProductions 2 years ago
At least you're sorry about it. I agree that you still have time to reach out someway somehow.
laurendelore 2 years ago
Sex crimes are becoming a bullshit conviction anymore. They use the term to cover too much, and as a result it doesn't have the meaning to it. don't care what someone was convicted on, if they did their time give them a break.
G4DThunder 2 years ago
I agree, here...The term is so broad, at this point, as to be meaningless.
I don't think that statutory rape is the same thing as pedophilia. I don't think that being seen in public naked is anywhere near as bad as the other two...Either way, they're all in the same group.
caltrop69 2 years ago
A lot of Sex "offenses" are totally rediculous. In some states just soliciting sex from a prostitute can make you a "sex offender'.
I know a guy who was 18 and his girlfriend was 17 and there were only 6 months between them and he was thrown in prison for statatory rape.
And I'm a convicted Plant Grower which makes me a fellon. I know how it is to be branded a "badguy" by society.
JessicaBelle81 2 years ago
Here in California(San Diego), you can be labeled a "Sex Offender" if you pull to the side of the freeway and run into the bushes because have to pee real bad. "Exposing" yourself in "public" is enough for them to label you that way. I too..am a convicted plant grower. 5 year sentence, and you come out being labeled and registering as a drug offender for another 5 years.
SDcrooZer 2 years ago
Yeah...I agree. It is a bit ridiculous.
Also, Penn is an incredibly honesty human being.
undisputedgreatest 2 years ago
The sex crime had nothing to do with you and he served his time. I feel that when someone serves time in jail we should give them the chance to prove they have changed. Because the world shouldn't be a prison for them as well. I understand and respect that this was a new problem you had and you trusted others to make the decision for you. You can make things right and feel good about it still. There is still time.
Goobian 2 years ago
Honestly, you're the last person I would really think would sell out on their beliefs based on fear of public opinion.
DCStream 2 years ago 2
Yeah. WTF Penn?
Aren't you a little above caring about what other people think about you? Has the paycheck syndrome really conquered you from even sticking up for what you believe in?
That's BULLSHIT.
AgentsRecord 2 years ago
I gotta say call him. I know you can't associate with this guy for business purposes because your income (therefore your kids' well-being) is at stake, but if you can stick it to the BSA you can stick it to media if they badmouth about associating with sex offenders. This guy needs help and you have the power to help him. The inhuman thing to do would be to turn your back on him.
g1Chase357 2 years ago
Good vid Penn- and good on you too. I just read an autobiography by a friend who did jail time for bank fraud and getting reintroduced into society and figuring out how to start doing business again was very important there too.
jordanowen42 2 years ago
There's a certain point in our lives where our ideals run into the pragmatic realities of life.
All we can do is make the compromises you can live with and honestly admit our own hypocrisies.
RPR1983 2 years ago
Just read Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter".
It's exactly as apt today regarding sex offenses as it was in 1850 when he wrote it.
There is literally no difference between registered sex offender databases, and forcing people to walk around with a big red "A" pinned to their clothes.
In another 150 people will look back on what we're doing today and find it as unconscionably bad as what people did two hundred years before today.
It's really sad.
hossrex 2 years ago 3
Penn, you have children. You can not associate with this man and risk your income. Talk is cheap, ideals are free, but if your two kids are hungry, they won't care if you stuck to your beliefs. It's ok to feel bad, Penn. It means that you aren't a typical Hollywood hypocrite. But don't be too hard on yourself, after all, it's only magic tricks.
TheAmishking 2 years ago
Well, I think there's a simple answer to this. I know you will probably never see this, but the simple choice is to contact the guy and employ the same services you turned down. That's far better than just saying you are sorry for the treatment in the past. As an atheist as well I'm sure you realize that just feeling sorry is fucking worthless.
Archaneus 2 years ago 2
fuck it go for it. he served his time. if he has good ideas and willing to sell them to you, it has nothing to do with sex...fuck what people say or think. call his ass back and get his ideas.
xXxmajikmanxXx 2 years ago
Why not find out the details of the crime and then make a decision.The nature of the crime might carry all the weight of your decision regardless of time served.
Thereminator101 2 years ago
Penn how do you see your content continuing in a post-Sony, post-Showtime world where copyright is adjusted to fit the reality of digital communication and data replication?
You seem to feel very strongly about ownership rights I was just curious if you could go into this further. For example, using a "creative commons" or similar license on your material, in the future.
lvecsey 2 years ago
And you can't call him back? Is the opportunity gone? Because you could counter all the media bullshit taking a stand for his right to work. You would have the higher moral ground.
UssenterprizeDv2 2 years ago
It's definitely a tough call.
But maybe you should try and find out what he actually did, before you make a decision on whether to associate with the guy or not.
culwin 2 years ago
you make a very good point. i wouldn't blame yourself, too much. but hey, secretly writing letters to apologize for all the bullshit he's being put through now that he's out couldn't hurt. what gossip columns don't know what hurt..you :P
xdirtybootsz 2 years ago
.....because you have kids
AmericanCyberGirl 2 years ago
Looking for the wrong ethics in business there, Penn. I bet those tricks were badass.
AnneOnAMoose 2 years ago
We all screw up. It's a shame but it's true. Hopefully we can be forgiven by those who we've wronged.
CodedLockFilms 2 years ago 2
Guns n Roses covered "look at your game" by Charles Manson, took a lot of shit, made money on that, and still did well;... at least until Axl went ape shit. Your acquaintance did his time, Fuck society. You have enough loot to do what you want Penn. That's the cool thing about being loaded. Either be the pig, or free the bacon.
Crawdaddy75 2 years ago
Gratz to you Penn. I appreciate you bringing this up. People fuck up, but people can change, and if you've served your 'so called' time, its over.
netmasta10bt 2 years ago
Penn for President!
defect530 2 years ago 2
never will i say that i agree with everything Penn says in these segments. but it's thinks like this that i really enjoy. he's showing that he's human and i respect it.
MarkTheMagnificent 2 years ago
penn is such a real kinda guy. gotta love em
Bluelemonzz 2 years ago 2
you know what man -- I love penn. he is real and I love him for it.
netmasta10bt 2 years ago
I love you Penn, but you're just making a video about it to make your self feel better, it's a cop out. Go to the guy and learn some new tricks.. The dude did his time for fucks sake..
Brade 2 years ago
It's part of societies punishment beyond the courts. If I knew a man murdered his first wife, do you expect me to date him? Even if you've done your time, you may still repeat the crime.
Horseinthefog 2 years ago
They do the same thing to those who join the military and don't make the cut. If you get in trouble, you get a dishonorable discharge, which you couldn't even get a job from McDonalds with. If you just can't cope with military life they'll give you an Other than Honorable Discharge, which may has well be called a Dishonorable. You basically get a stain on your record for trying to serve your country and failing.
CluppHead 2 years ago
You lose VA benefits and your GI Bill and get thrown to the streets with little hope of finding a job. Than you have people that probably have never tried anything remotely as difficult as the military looking down on you like your a piece of shit. It's Bullshit that it should even show up on back round checks. I used to feel bad for those guys that got kicked out for stupid shit in the military. Because I knew that they were pretty much screwed.
CluppHead 2 years ago
You don't have to declare your criminal back round when applying for a job. If they do a back round check and find out you lied, that's when they have the right to fire you...If i'm not mistaken. So just don't do anything that would warrant a back round check.
I would treat the guy like any other business transaction. You don't have to associate with him personally or be friends with the dude. Let him pitch the idea, keep it strictly business, and don't bring it up.
CluppHead 2 years ago
Penn, you have to make the right business decisions. Anything else would be a betrayal of all those whom your show employws as well as those who get useful info from your program. You would be risking their financial well being if you were to associate with this person. Reality is sometimes a b*t**; actions have consequences. This person committed an act that carries societal reprecussions such as the ones he is now experiencing. He can redeem himself but he'll have to work twice as hard.Reality
7Highlander 2 years ago
Good point, but I doubt he would do 5 years in prison for something minor.
zet168 2 years ago
I would want to know exactly what the crime was before I decided whether or not I was going to associate with the person.
mrplow8 2 years ago
I concur...
ShortbusMooner 2 years ago
Think about it this way: if someone shoplifts when they're 15, gets caught, learns the error of his ways and never does it again, should he have to introduce himself as a thief to every neighbor he has for the rest of his life? Should you have the right to know his criminal history before deciding whether you're going to associate with him?
uberjim83 2 years ago
What if instead of shoplifting at 15, they broke into a home and robbed a family at gunpoint? Not all crimes are the same, and I don't think everything is forgivable. That's why I said that I would want to know the circumstances of his crime before I made a decision.
mrplow8 2 years ago
I think that is a good idea. There is not enough info to make a decision.
lostinseganet 2 years ago
Either way, for you to make that decision you would have to be privy to EVERYONE'S complete criminal history before meeting them. Not possible, and even if it were, not desirable.
uberjim83 2 years ago
If your point is that you can't judge people on things you don't know about, then guess what? EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS THAT. That doesn't mean that you can't judge them on things that you do know about.
mrplow8 2 years ago
No, my pint is that you do not have the right to know people's criminal history unless they choose to reveal it to you.
uberjim83 2 years ago
If I already know that someone has served time in prison for being committed of a sex crime, it's not unreasonable for me to want to know the circumstances of that crime before deciding whether or not I want to associate with that person. If they choose not to tell me, then I can choose not to associate with them.
mrplow8 2 years ago
I meant convicted, not committed.
mrplow8 2 years ago
That's true, and it would not be unreasonable for you to ask the person. However, it would not be reasonable for them to be legally required to bring the subject up, and for that to be the very first conversation that the two of you have.
uberjim83 2 years ago
You know Penn I was thinking about that too one day, some people get a "sex offender" status for mooning someone on the highway. I read an article about that once, actually got jailtime. Can you imagine mooning someone as a 16 year old and having it count the same as one of those "flashers" or whatever and you have to tell your neighbors for the rest of your life that you are a sex offender? On top of that, trying to get hired after that is a bitch all because of mooning someone?
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago 2
No! You are not a pig, Penn. Pun intended! When you do that sort of crime against children you don't deserve a life.
SnakeOilSam1 2 years ago
Your bravery is evident in the posting of this video. Most people would've never mentioned a god damned word about something like this. I commend you!!
Hall1263 2 years ago 2