That's not quite what socialism is, either - Socialism is when the workers own the means of production. Nothing more, nothing less. A better example would be if the students suddenly owned the school, directed the class curriculum etc.
The first example was an example of pure socialism, while the second example (government helping people help themselves) is an example of a mixed system like social democracy. This is the distinction that most Americans don't understand. My opinion is that any pure system of government is evil. Pure socialism is evil because it takes away the right to own property and businesses, but pure capitalism is evil because it is exploitive of the poor and gives too much power and influence to the rich.
Are you really wealthy if you don't buy / own anything?
You buy a mansion or a yact by spending millions of dollars. That money stimulates the economy and creates jobs.
If you punish the rich, you discourage individuals from aspiring to become wealthy.
Also, you drive them to move their operations overseas to countries that don't punish success quite as much...then you lose a LOT of jobs and economic stimulus. There's just no way around it, socialism punishes success. Simple.
@jevansturner You'll notice that in our "socialist" America, the rich keep getting richer and the middle class stands still or declines. We're not soaking the rich, we're letting the rich screw the rest of us. Don't pretend that it's any more complicated than that.
Both analogies are slanted in favour of their propagators bias. Neither of which throws any light on the perils of both socialism and capitalism. My concern is the emergence of the =State Corporeal- Have you noticed how commerce is being consolidated to a few large traders, many with virtual monopolies? That's part of the State Corporatists agenda because it's easier to control the few than the many/
If a Cuban can come from a socialist country risk life and limb to get here to the US, not know any English, nor have much money on them and make it here through hard work, then why can't others that were born here do the same? In one word, lazy!
I don't think you understand socialism there. First off socialism does not work because it creates lazyiness in people. People that work hard should be rewared for their hard work not be criminalized for what they earned. We do have programs that help people that need it without the use of socialism already. Thats the big point you are missing there.
Have you looked this up? Socialism is not 'helping' people. It's taking YOUR money and doing with it what the government thinks is best FOR you. So your analogy is wrong. What socialism does is take the money from the people who dont need tutors and makes them pay for the people that do need tutors that can't afford them instead of suggesting that people taking Advanced Calculus who can't handle the math should probably go back and start at Algebra I and work their way up.
@swampfaye You seem to understand how socialism works as well as I do. Your problem is not understanding the facts that decision made by the government represent the will of the people, through a little thing called democracy. The government doesn't just do what it thinks is best, it does what the elected representatives think is best :) If this happens to be socialism, than hurray!
@swampfaye Hey, I'm just here to educate, not change America. If America doens't have democracy, fine, members of the commonwealth of nations and the European union do have democracy
@zunathanzu How can you educate if you are uninformed on it? Each European state has their own laws and charters, and some of them may have democracies, but some are republics (like us). Still others do not give up their sovereignty to be part of the EU.
This is not relevant to economics. In an economy, the money MUST come from somewhere. If it doesn't come from the poor and middle class, it comes from the rich. That *IS* equivalent to taking the higher grade away from the better students. *YOU* do not understand socialism as it relates in the real world.
"appose?" I guess that tutor did you a lot of good!
@CZroe Taking taxes from the rich to fund programs that help poor people become independent is not the same as giving rich and poor equal money. get it?
@zunathanzu Oh, I get it. But the radio example you heard is right yet again: economic socialism removes incentive, thus, makes them dependant on it. In the classroom example, the students scoring lower had equal opportunity and abiltiy to score as well as the higher-scoring individuals. Giving them a higher grade than they deserved could not possily help them get a higher score on their own the next time. It's still up to them.
@zunathanzu I was raised on welfare. That's a different kind of independence... you're still dependant on the money for your other independence and you lose incentive to become truly independent. What happened to your earlier reply?
@CZroe Here's the odd thing: WIth all the crying that people are doing about socialism, the rich are getting richer and the middle class getting poorer. You are railing against a mythology. Look at the reality of what's actually happening. The income gap is growing larger in this country, not smaller.
Yes it is helping the poor people help themselves. But where do you think the money comes from to provide this assistance? "the rich". The government can only give what it first takes from somebody else. So there for, your description is not correct.
@lizdashiz1 Yes, because the rich can afford to pay more. They benefit the most from the system anyway, isn't it fair that they should pay more? Everyone benefits from an economy where everyone is healthy, happy and have jobs, especially the rich.
i want you to finish your studies... go to work in the u.s., and handover say 70% of your pay. cause we have alot of people to ''help''. hell make it 90. oh and.. guess what.. you don't get help.... sorry. because anyone ''smart'' enough to see the wonders of your social ideals.. doesn't need it right?? you for that?? im afraid you are the one who needs schooled on this disgusting economic system.
@Urbania05 I did finish my studies and I do work in the US. You are lying because taxes are nowhere near that high, and never have been, except in the early 20th century but that was only for income earned over a huge amount.
@zunathanzu well then you need to go back to school. and again.. i want you to give 70% of pay back to the gov't. fuck.. fifty.... and you sir.. are white middleclass.. with a penis.. so you don't get help. go ahead give it back. since you are so billiant. and i never said that they were that high you moron.
actually i think the first example of socialism was more accurate. In your example the people who do well on test dont lose anything and you bring in an outside force that takes nothing from them to fix the problem. In real socialism points would be taken from the good students and given to bad, or the good students would be forced to tutor the bad, or fail the class themselves.
@theblur34517 Everyone pays tution, so everyone pays for the professor to teach. Tutors are payed for by the same money that pays for the classroom, teacher, ect...
@zunathanzu In the original example an economy (money, goods,services) is represented by the kids working and earning grades in return. Your example brings actual money in to the equation. It "breaks the rules" set by the example. If grades are earnings in the example, the good students must give up productive time, or their earnings (grades) to help the lesser students as they would in a socialist system. You just didnt understand the original example or dont get socialism.
Sorry kid I don't think YOU understand socialism. Socialism is guided by the philosophy: To each according to his need, from each according to his ability. But considering socialist are so obsessed with equality let me ask you this: if person A (a poor person) is entitled to health care, and person B (a taxpayer) is responsible to person A to provide that entitlement, then what did person B do to fall into the debt of person A? And is person 'B' as equal as person 'A'?
WOW...if you're going to release a video onto a public forum defending socialism and how your university is so great, at least take a communications class first so you can learn to annunciate your words...fail
uhh, nooo. Socialism is helping the poor, by taking from the rich, plain and simple. Your analogy is completely flawed. In real life, where would these tutors come from? Do they pop out from thin air? Do they suddenly materialize? No, they would HAVE to be payed for, by the rich.
You misrepresent what socialism is. It would be additional help for the lower scoring students at the expense of the higher scoring students, not just out of thin air the way you make it sound. In a truely socialist classroom, the teachers would focus on the lazy or ungifted and the hard working and gifted would be on their own thus normalizing the average test score of the class. Its called "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."
As opposed to everyone getting equal time with tutors and note takers, which would be fair. It could also lower the cost of your education unless you're forcing those who produce to provide education for the children of those who don't produce. Then it of course doesen't matter. You wan't so bad for socialism to be something other than forced charity when thats all it could ever be. "Everyone pitches in." wether they want to or not.
no the teacher is like the gov and the money is takin from the rich people duhhhhhh and they give to the poor. YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIALISM IS WRONG LMAO. THE SOCIALISM HAS TO USE TAXES THATS LIKE THE GRADES FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAD HIGH GRADES, AND GIVE IT TO THE ONES WHO HAVE LOW GRADES OR DIDNT TRY HARD, SO THE DEMONSTRATION WAS PERFECT
@TrayWiks Wrong. A good socialist system doens't just take from the rich and give to the poor. it helps the poor become capable to helping themselves.
You are worng socialism and unfair treatment is the same thing. I've lived in sweden for 20 years now during that time period we have had socialism 16 years and I tell you that the way our system works is we give people who does not work money enough for a house, a car, food, clothes and electronics (tv, computer etc). This money comes from people with high education making lots of money becuse we have a scaling socialist tax system. A year ago I got so fed up I jumped of school becuse of this.
It's not the socialism that's so bad, it's what socialism opens the door to. We have tutors now, why do we need socialism for tutors? You missed the point the guy was trying to make. If you take away incentive you take away production. Why would I want to punish the guy who makes jobs? That will slow job growth and create more dead weight which is unsustainable.
@weseyedwalk Socialism is not about punishing the hard working. It is about helping the mis fortunate. It's about picking up the fallen man and putting him up on his own feet so he can stand on his own.
Actually, the classroom analogy is surprisingly relevant. In order to help someone, you must first take away from someone else. Eventually, those who have been taken from too much give up and stop trying to work hard. This is exactly how my country, Ukraine, was ruined. I hope Americans won't repeat the same mistake. Capitalism has proven itself over and over. It may not be a perfect system, but it works. Socialism always leads to ruin in the long run.
Ever happen to think Americans don't want to be forced to understand socialism? Just because it may work in this place or that place doesn't mean it will work here. Corruption is corruption. Democracy, Communism, Socialism, It doesn't matter what you call it. Our government just needs to be reminded it's "We the people, for the people" not "We the people, for the corporations".
@zunathanzu Sorry bud, I wasn't trying to imply that you personally are forcing socialism on anyone. I came here to watch this video of my own free will. I was referring to the current US administration.
Wait, what you just described kinda is a little bit more capitalist than you think. What you are suggesting the professor do is kinda the same with what our Government is doing; taxing so it can provide services for its citizens. What the professor did by distributing the grades evenly is actually the most socialist. it brings everyone down (or up) the same level, however everyone must strive to be better for the benefit of the State/Country
@dirx103 Your a prime example of an American misunderstanding socialism. Any government service that for for the benifit of people is socialist. Yes, Schools, Parks, the Army, the Fire department, Libraries, the post office. All Socialist
@zunathanzu I think you are the one misunderstanding socialism with government service. Those things are services for the people, they are there to HELP people (kinda like how tutoring is, dont you think?) That is what the government is supposed to be doing anyway, providing services. How it is different for socialism is it does not get rid of social class, nor is it there for that reason.
@zunathanzu so then it's not really the school who provides the tutors. the students could just as well go out and get their own tutors since their paying for it anyway.
And Socialism is just when the governemnt owns all the needed corporations, I.E. (energy plants, water plants, etc...) . I think what you're talking about is communism
@hero0fdarkthepker Communism is a what the person on the radio was originally making an allegory about. My version was a more rational and moral socialism.
Correctomundo. I have been blessed with a great economics teacher who has made sure we understood communism and socialism. I think the ideas are great, infact, communism and democracy go hand in hand
@hero0fdarkthepker This doesn't seem to be the case in communist countries. When was the last Cuban election? But if you had said "Socialism and democracy go hand and hand" I would agree ten thousand times over.
@bearhuntaa Tell that to anyone who has used the public postal service, why doesn't ups do a better job. Prime example of how socialism works better than any capitalist equivalent.
@zunathanzu what? you got it mixed up. the postal service is a government organization, ups is an independent business. you got it completely backwards. you couldn't be more wrong.
@zunathanzu The Postal Service in bankrupt! Sure you can argue whether one is a better quality service, but UPS isn't losing money on the hands of taxpayers!
@zunathanzu What do you mean "a better job"? Isn't the postal service in the hole financially? UPS doesn't even try to compete in many ways because no private company can compete with a public one that can lose money every year and survive.
America is a capitalist country, and that's how it should stay. Whether you think Socialism is better or worse doesn't really matter. Fuck, we've had a lot of wars and stock market crashes but still we are a succeeding nation. All of Capitalism. See Greece? Socialist country... just saying.
@zunathanzu cutwe comment. guess that comment was thought out though.. considering until recent history there wasn't a stock market in China. Non-existant there... like human rights are. ''just saying''.
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Its so TRUE, Americans don't understand Socialism at ALL. They get memories of the Cold war and the "evils of Socialism". WAKE UP AMERICA. Socialism is NOT Evil at all, your just giving it a BAD NAME. Americans are so ignorent, its unbelievable..
@andy77718 It's to change their viewpoint when certain American news networks continuously broadcast misinformation about how Socialism actually works.
@andy77718 look im just not into paying for people who can work, all they are doing is sitting on their ass saying "oh Obama will give me money, thats why i voted for him" but i dont want to pay for them now for that people cant physically work ok they need a bit more money to do something fine but they cant work theres a difference
Well, I like that you want to help the poor, but I take issue with your "grades" analogy. The assistance you want the state to give to the poor must come from somewhere, and like it or not, it isn't free. Someone has to pay for it, and that's going to lead to the state taking money from the rich to do so, even if some of the rich have no desire to help. Worse yet, the bureaucracy is going to cost more money than if the rich provided jobs to the poor or somesuch. I don't think socialism can work.
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@Altimadark even if some rich people don't have the desire to help, it is their duty to do so. I think if you had a bag full of band-aids and came across a man in bleeding to death, you would be morally responsible if you did not give that bleeding man a bandage. Socialism is an enforcement of this morality. Socialism arguable does work, in the majority of developed nations n the world.
@zunathanzu You can't enforce morality without corrupting it.
"The rich," as people put it, tend to invest their money in business in order to grow their money. In so doing, they create jobs, helping multitudes of people. Businesses have to compete with one another, so in order keep up or stay ahead of competition, they have to hire even more people to research how to do so. Enforcing morality, as you put it, risks sacrificing those jobs, hurting people in the name of helping people.
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@Altimadark Taxing the rich sacrifices Jobs? Sweden and Demark hav some of the most progressive income taxes in the world, and guess what? They have some of the lowest unemployment rates and highest quality of life. Go democracy! Go socialism!
@zunathanzu You are aware that, first, their population is much smaller and far less diverse than the USA's, and second, that their "quality of life" is high due in large part to medical research done in the USA? Research that was made possible by "the rich" looking for a way to grow their money.
For all your praise of socialism, it sure seems like it's dependent upon the people you say don't do enough for others.
@zunathanzu Sure, medical research exists outside of the USA, but the USA has produced more medical innovations than any other country, and it didn't need socialized medicine to prompt that research.
Personally, I don't have as big of a problem with individual states experimenting with socialized health care as I do the Federal government. At least the states have vote-with-your-feet competition with one another.
@zunathanzu I just have to note that France is part of the reason for the recent economic downturn in Europe, due in large part to socialized programs including Universal Health Care. That should really make you think.
@jannikmt I never denied that research takes place in other countries. Doesn't change the fact that medical research from the US has produced more innovations than medical research in other countries.
@jannikmt First, the term is Monopsony (in this case), and second, Wal-Mart has several distinct competitors. Have you never been to a K-Mart, Target, or Meijer before?
The tutors are provided free of charge by the School. I payed my tuition using student loans from the government and by working a summer job. Does that answer your question? Cation: you can only take allegory so far.
I think US citizens are instinctively opposed to the notion of "socialism" because of the former enemy's , the USSR, misuse of the system. As far as the health care issue is concerned I am/was appalled that so many people are against it. The rich can pay for care, the really poor had it for nought, and those in the middle, I suppose, "can go to hell". One does not need to be a Christian to see the injustice and lack of altruism in it.
Indeed one definitely doesn't need to be Christian to follow the principles of love. But it does increase hypocrisy if politicians outspokenly claim to be followers of a figure(Jesus) who spent His life feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and loving His enemies, when these same politicians resist legislation that would feed the hungry, heal the sick and in addition to all of this they support actions of war and capital punishment rather than diplomacy and rehabilitation
@zunathanzu I absolutely agree with you, Nathan. A prime example of hypocrisy is our former PM, Blair, who helped Bush to create instability in the Middle East and now poses as Peace Envoy.
But this issue is about helping the "middle class" people that work but aren't covered. I think even if the GOP considers this (health care bill) socialism ...and so? After all aren't we supposed to be a christian nation? Lets do altruistic for a change.We have socialist institutions already. I don't understand them.
As far as GOP is concerned. I think a lot of the resistance is based on fear. Fear of the unknown, and fear motivated by misinformation, perhaps even fear motivated by prejudice(directed at Obama). I agree with the Christian nation part(although I'm only a Canadian living in the US), Jesus said "whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me" So why resist helping those who can not afford health care?
@Deepstarr7020 No, we are not a Christian nation. The founding fathers believed getting religion mixed into politics would ruin both, and as such that's why the 1st amendment says, among other things, that the government has no authority to respect or prohibit any religion, in and of itself.
@Deepstarr7020 But we are NOT a Christian nation. Furthermore, where in the Bible does it say that people have to pay their government in order to help their fellow man? I've never seen any passage suggesting that.
This is getting ridiculous. People run around and say that this is Christian nation , on TV,at rallies ,etc. You never heard that before? I'm mocking that notion.
" I've never seen any passage suggesting that." of course not...what's wrong with you?lol
Jesus says to pay taxes "give to Ceasar what is Ceasars". Jesus also lived his life healing the sick and feeding the poor. Would Jesus deny healing somebody because they could not afford to pay their medical bills? I think not!
There are a lot of Americans who claim to be Christian and yet act very un-Christ-like politically. I'm talking about the majority of republicans here.
@zunathanzu Here's the thing: Jesus didn't wait for the Roman government to come in and heal the sick; he went ahead and started doing it himself. The pharisees got angry at him because it was making them look bad. Ultimately, the only way they could have anything done about it was to appeal to the government. There's a lesson for you.
I'm also reminded of the parable of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritan didn't wait on government to help the wounded man, he just went ahead and did so himself.
@zunathanzu You forgot the next part :and give God what is Gods. It was in answer to the diciples in asking if they should pay tax. cause they knew how corrurpt the roman goverment had gotten. Jesus was more concerned in them serving God. Your argument is truely laughable. Jesus was not a doctor or an insurance agent. And nowhere will you find Jesus saying the goverment should heal people, or feed the poor. Only in the individual and free choice is there true charity.
@zunathanzu The entirety of what Jesus said was this: Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's. Caesar should be given taxes and God should be given worship, obedience, service, and the dedication of one's whole life. Jesus was making a distinction between government and God. If anything, He was saying the two should be separate, not entwined. He definitely wasn't saying we should rely on government.
@MildTabascofries You need to read a little more carefully. There's nothing in the Bible that suggests that the best way to help your fellow man is to pay the government. The passage in Matthew 22.17 merely asks if it's proper to pay taxes at all.
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@Altimadark Oh but we are a Christian nation no matter how you look at it when you boil it down the foundations for this country are rooted in Christianity.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
@Altimadark this nation was indeed founded on christian ideals... by christains. our historyt is full of christain ideals. i don't understand why people seem to think religion has no connection what so ever to our gov't. this seperation of church and state thing is an non-issue. it's there. religion IS this country. ALL KINDS. it's a part of us, how we vote, how we govern, how we lead the world.
@Altimadark Just cause the word "God" doesn't appear in the Constitution or Bill of Rights doesn't mean shit. It appears in the Declaration, and it is also understood that most of the rights given in the documents are "God" given rights and that no man can take them from you. I'm agnostic, I have no religion, but you cannot deny the blatant references to a God made throughout our history. Many of our founders were Masons, which is probably why the idea of separated church and state even occurred
@Altimadark If you look at the statistics, christians make up the majority in this country... AS I SAID BEFORE "We are not a Christian Nation, but we are A NATION OF CHRISTIANS"... You said "Not a Christian Nation make!?" wtf are you talking about you inarticulate fuck?
@zunathanzu who the hell are you to tell ANYONE to be respectible cow? you socialists are soo two-faced... so hypocritical. and then you dare tell anyone to behave. you don't like this system.. then by all means.. leave.
@TheConservatveLibral Can't say I care for your petty insults, but I'll explain. The phrase "X does not a Y make" simply means that having a component of some greater thing does not, in and of itself, make the greater thing; ie: an engine does not a car make; you still need a frame, a gas tank, wheels, a suspension, steering, brakes, a radiator, etc.
Likewise, simply having Christians in this nation doesn't make it a nation of Christians. There are people of other religions living here as well.
@TheConservatveLibral listen im a christain and a conservative... and im telling you that you are wasting your time with this nitwit. he doesn't understand what you are saying.
Your analogy is bad.
fortyaider 4 months ago
That's not quite what socialism is, either - Socialism is when the workers own the means of production. Nothing more, nothing less. A better example would be if the students suddenly owned the school, directed the class curriculum etc.
kwaal 8 months ago
@kwaal WRONG that's Communism
funhouse21 2 months ago
Thanks for having your own thoughts, and not just following what everyone else things
thegodman1 10 months ago
@thegodman1 Thanks man!
zunathanzu 10 months ago
Fake!
partynetwork 11 months ago
The "teacher" story is a pretty good analogy for why socialism fails.
Unfortunately, in American capitalism, people who get A's don't get them because they study hard, but rather because they copy other people's tests.
jhillst 11 months ago
The first example was an example of pure socialism, while the second example (government helping people help themselves) is an example of a mixed system like social democracy. This is the distinction that most Americans don't understand. My opinion is that any pure system of government is evil. Pure socialism is evil because it takes away the right to own property and businesses, but pure capitalism is evil because it is exploitive of the poor and gives too much power and influence to the rich.
merchan5967 1 year ago
Are you really wealthy if you don't buy / own anything?
You buy a mansion or a yact by spending millions of dollars. That money stimulates the economy and creates jobs.
If you punish the rich, you discourage individuals from aspiring to become wealthy.
Also, you drive them to move their operations overseas to countries that don't punish success quite as much...then you lose a LOT of jobs and economic stimulus. There's just no way around it, socialism punishes success. Simple.
jevansturner 1 year ago
"It's not as simple as that."
Wrong. It really is a simple concept that socialism punishes success from hard work. Don't pretend that it's any more complicated than that.
jevansturner 1 year ago 3
@jevansturner You'll notice that in our "socialist" America, the rich keep getting richer and the middle class stands still or declines. We're not soaking the rich, we're letting the rich screw the rest of us. Don't pretend that it's any more complicated than that.
mickeleh 1 year ago
Both analogies are slanted in favour of their propagators bias. Neither of which throws any light on the perils of both socialism and capitalism. My concern is the emergence of the =State Corporeal- Have you noticed how commerce is being consolidated to a few large traders, many with virtual monopolies? That's part of the State Corporatists agenda because it's easier to control the few than the many/
KnockoffNigeI 1 year ago
If a Cuban can come from a socialist country risk life and limb to get here to the US, not know any English, nor have much money on them and make it here through hard work, then why can't others that were born here do the same? In one word, lazy!
206streetfilms 1 year ago
I don't think you understand socialism there. First off socialism does not work because it creates lazyiness in people. People that work hard should be rewared for their hard work not be criminalized for what they earned. We do have programs that help people that need it without the use of socialism already. Thats the big point you are missing there.
206streetfilms 1 year ago
Have you looked this up? Socialism is not 'helping' people. It's taking YOUR money and doing with it what the government thinks is best FOR you. So your analogy is wrong. What socialism does is take the money from the people who dont need tutors and makes them pay for the people that do need tutors that can't afford them instead of suggesting that people taking Advanced Calculus who can't handle the math should probably go back and start at Algebra I and work their way up.
swampfaye 1 year ago 2
@swampfaye You seem to understand how socialism works as well as I do. Your problem is not understanding the facts that decision made by the government represent the will of the people, through a little thing called democracy. The government doesn't just do what it thinks is best, it does what the elected representatives think is best :) If this happens to be socialism, than hurray!
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu except we don't live in a democracy - and we have this little thing called the Constitution.
swampfaye 1 year ago
@swampfaye Hey, I'm just here to educate, not change America. If America doens't have democracy, fine, members of the commonwealth of nations and the European union do have democracy
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu How can you educate if you are uninformed on it? Each European state has their own laws and charters, and some of them may have democracies, but some are republics (like us). Still others do not give up their sovereignty to be part of the EU.
swampfaye 1 year ago
This is not relevant to economics. In an economy, the money MUST come from somewhere. If it doesn't come from the poor and middle class, it comes from the rich. That *IS* equivalent to taking the higher grade away from the better students. *YOU* do not understand socialism as it relates in the real world.
"appose?" I guess that tutor did you a lot of good!
CZroe 1 year ago
@CZroe Taking taxes from the rich to fund programs that help poor people become independent is not the same as giving rich and poor equal money. get it?
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu Oh, I get it. But the radio example you heard is right yet again: economic socialism removes incentive, thus, makes them dependant on it. In the classroom example, the students scoring lower had equal opportunity and abiltiy to score as well as the higher-scoring individuals. Giving them a higher grade than they deserved could not possily help them get a higher score on their own the next time. It's still up to them.
CZroe 1 year ago
@zunathanzu I was raised on welfare. That's a different kind of independence... you're still dependant on the money for your other independence and you lose incentive to become truly independent. What happened to your earlier reply?
CZroe 1 year ago
@CZroe Here's the odd thing: WIth all the crying that people are doing about socialism, the rich are getting richer and the middle class getting poorer. You are railing against a mythology. Look at the reality of what's actually happening. The income gap is growing larger in this country, not smaller.
mickeleh 1 year ago
Yes it is helping the poor people help themselves. But where do you think the money comes from to provide this assistance? "the rich". The government can only give what it first takes from somebody else. So there for, your description is not correct.
lizdashiz1 1 year ago
@lizdashiz1 Yes, because the rich can afford to pay more. They benefit the most from the system anyway, isn't it fair that they should pay more? Everyone benefits from an economy where everyone is healthy, happy and have jobs, especially the rich.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
i want you to finish your studies... go to work in the u.s., and handover say 70% of your pay. cause we have alot of people to ''help''. hell make it 90. oh and.. guess what.. you don't get help.... sorry. because anyone ''smart'' enough to see the wonders of your social ideals.. doesn't need it right?? you for that?? im afraid you are the one who needs schooled on this disgusting economic system.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 I did finish my studies and I do work in the US. You are lying because taxes are nowhere near that high, and never have been, except in the early 20th century but that was only for income earned over a huge amount.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu well then you need to go back to school. and again.. i want you to give 70% of pay back to the gov't. fuck.. fifty.... and you sir.. are white middleclass.. with a penis.. so you don't get help. go ahead give it back. since you are so billiant. and i never said that they were that high you moron.
Urbania05 1 year ago
actually i think the first example of socialism was more accurate. In your example the people who do well on test dont lose anything and you bring in an outside force that takes nothing from them to fix the problem. In real socialism points would be taken from the good students and given to bad, or the good students would be forced to tutor the bad, or fail the class themselves.
theblur34517 1 year ago
@theblur34517 Everyone pays tution, so everyone pays for the professor to teach. Tutors are payed for by the same money that pays for the classroom, teacher, ect...
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu In the original example an economy (money, goods,services) is represented by the kids working and earning grades in return. Your example brings actual money in to the equation. It "breaks the rules" set by the example. If grades are earnings in the example, the good students must give up productive time, or their earnings (grades) to help the lesser students as they would in a socialist system. You just didnt understand the original example or dont get socialism.
theblur34517 1 year ago
Sorry kid I don't think YOU understand socialism. Socialism is guided by the philosophy: To each according to his need, from each according to his ability. But considering socialist are so obsessed with equality let me ask you this: if person A (a poor person) is entitled to health care, and person B (a taxpayer) is responsible to person A to provide that entitlement, then what did person B do to fall into the debt of person A? And is person 'B' as equal as person 'A'?
boomboom418 1 year ago
Obama is against socialism!! then so am I.
weseyedwalk 1 year ago
WOW...if you're going to release a video onto a public forum defending socialism and how your university is so great, at least take a communications class first so you can learn to annunciate your words...fail
pyroHAN 1 year ago
@pyroHAN What words did I say wrong?
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@pyroHAN WOW.. if you're going to object to a video, avoid answering the argument and focus on the delivery. Impressive.
mickeleh 1 year ago
@pyroHAN WOW.. if you're going to object to a video, avoid answering the argument and focus on the delivery. Impressive.
Oh, and if you're going to be nitppicky, the word your brain failed to deliver to your fingers is "ennunciate" not "annunciagte" Fail.
mickeleh 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pyroHAN WOW.. if you're going to object to a video, avoid answering the argument and focus on the delivery. Impressive.
Oh, and if you're going to be nitppicky, the word your brain failed to deliver to your fingers is "ennunciate" not "annunciate" Fail.
mickeleh 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pyroHAN WOW.. if you're going to object to a video, avoid answering the argument and focus on the delivery. Impressive.
Oh, and if you're going to be nitppicky, the word your brain failed to deliver to your fingers is "enunciate" not "annunciate" Fail.
mickeleh 1 year ago
uhh, nooo. Socialism is helping the poor, by taking from the rich, plain and simple. Your analogy is completely flawed. In real life, where would these tutors come from? Do they pop out from thin air? Do they suddenly materialize? No, they would HAVE to be payed for, by the rich.
heatwheat 1 year ago 2
is is no true socialist country in the world. they call themselves socialist, but there really not
daboodeef179 1 year ago
I undrestand it clearly I have been to Russia more than once and have seen it first hand. It stinks!! Screw Commies and all who think it's cool.
3shacks1house 1 year ago
@3shacks1house You went to Russia before 1989? Because it hasn't been communist since then. Oh and Communism is NOT the same thing to socialism.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
your idea of socialism is what we do already in America. Thats Capitalism your thinking of.
MildTabascofries 1 year ago
@MildTabascofries Uhhh no... Capitalism is the opposite of what I am thinking of.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
You misrepresent what socialism is. It would be additional help for the lower scoring students at the expense of the higher scoring students, not just out of thin air the way you make it sound. In a truely socialist classroom, the teachers would focus on the lazy or ungifted and the hard working and gifted would be on their own thus normalizing the average test score of the class. Its called "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."
Vlaxitov 1 year ago
@Vlaxitov But at my University, the tutors and note takers provided for struggling students is payed for by the school. Everyone pitches in.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu
As opposed to everyone getting equal time with tutors and note takers, which would be fair. It could also lower the cost of your education unless you're forcing those who produce to provide education for the children of those who don't produce. Then it of course doesen't matter. You wan't so bad for socialism to be something other than forced charity when thats all it could ever be. "Everyone pitches in." wether they want to or not.
Vlaxitov 1 year ago
no the teacher is like the gov and the money is takin from the rich people duhhhhhh and they give to the poor. YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIALISM IS WRONG LMAO. THE SOCIALISM HAS TO USE TAXES THATS LIKE THE GRADES FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAD HIGH GRADES, AND GIVE IT TO THE ONES WHO HAVE LOW GRADES OR DIDNT TRY HARD, SO THE DEMONSTRATION WAS PERFECT
TrayWiks 1 year ago
@TrayWiks Wrong. A good socialist system doens't just take from the rich and give to the poor. it helps the poor become capable to helping themselves.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu Tell me where they get that money from sir, dont they have to tax people.
TrayWiks 1 year ago
wow man, cool video....NOT
SureShotSav 1 year ago
You are worng socialism and unfair treatment is the same thing. I've lived in sweden for 20 years now during that time period we have had socialism 16 years and I tell you that the way our system works is we give people who does not work money enough for a house, a car, food, clothes and electronics (tv, computer etc). This money comes from people with high education making lots of money becuse we have a scaling socialist tax system. A year ago I got so fed up I jumped of school becuse of this.
imperilolololololol 1 year ago
It's not the socialism that's so bad, it's what socialism opens the door to. We have tutors now, why do we need socialism for tutors? You missed the point the guy was trying to make. If you take away incentive you take away production. Why would I want to punish the guy who makes jobs? That will slow job growth and create more dead weight which is unsustainable.
weseyedwalk 1 year ago 2
@weseyedwalk Socialism is not about punishing the hard working. It is about helping the mis fortunate. It's about picking up the fallen man and putting him up on his own feet so he can stand on his own.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
Actually, the classroom analogy is surprisingly relevant. In order to help someone, you must first take away from someone else. Eventually, those who have been taken from too much give up and stop trying to work hard. This is exactly how my country, Ukraine, was ruined. I hope Americans won't repeat the same mistake. Capitalism has proven itself over and over. It may not be a perfect system, but it works. Socialism always leads to ruin in the long run.
ilieklolcatz 1 year ago 4
Ever happen to think Americans don't want to be forced to understand socialism? Just because it may work in this place or that place doesn't mean it will work here. Corruption is corruption. Democracy, Communism, Socialism, It doesn't matter what you call it. Our government just needs to be reminded it's "We the people, for the people" not "We the people, for the corporations".
Marty6972 1 year ago 2
@Marty6972 I don't advocate forced understanding. I advocate education.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu Sorry bud, I wasn't trying to imply that you personally are forcing socialism on anyone. I came here to watch this video of my own free will. I was referring to the current US administration.
Marty6972 1 year ago
Wait, what you just described kinda is a little bit more capitalist than you think. What you are suggesting the professor do is kinda the same with what our Government is doing; taxing so it can provide services for its citizens. What the professor did by distributing the grades evenly is actually the most socialist. it brings everyone down (or up) the same level, however everyone must strive to be better for the benefit of the State/Country
dirx103 1 year ago
@dirx103 Your a prime example of an American misunderstanding socialism. Any government service that for for the benifit of people is socialist. Yes, Schools, Parks, the Army, the Fire department, Libraries, the post office. All Socialist
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu I think you are the one misunderstanding socialism with government service. Those things are services for the people, they are there to HELP people (kinda like how tutoring is, dont you think?) That is what the government is supposed to be doing anyway, providing services. How it is different for socialism is it does not get rid of social class, nor is it there for that reason.
dirx103 1 year ago
@zunathanzu I dont see how a park or a school places the ownership of a business to the workers.
dirx103 1 year ago
sure, the school would get tutors for the "dumb students," but who pays for the tutors.
LoveStruckTonight 1 year ago
@LoveStruckTonight The Students
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu so then it's not really the school who provides the tutors. the students could just as well go out and get their own tutors since their paying for it anyway.
LoveStruckTonight 1 year ago
@zunathanzu but then what if the students were poor and couldn't afford it. the richer students would pay for it?
LoveStruckTonight 1 year ago
here's what socialism is... shit. period. we understand it plenty.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 You better stop driving on those government built/bought roads, they are made of socialism
zunathanzu 1 year ago
And Socialism is just when the governemnt owns all the needed corporations, I.E. (energy plants, water plants, etc...) . I think what you're talking about is communism
hero0fdarkthepker 1 year ago
@hero0fdarkthepker Communism is a what the person on the radio was originally making an allegory about. My version was a more rational and moral socialism.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
Correctomundo. I have been blessed with a great economics teacher who has made sure we understood communism and socialism. I think the ideas are great, infact, communism and democracy go hand in hand
hero0fdarkthepker 1 year ago
@hero0fdarkthepker This doesn't seem to be the case in communist countries. When was the last Cuban election? But if you had said "Socialism and democracy go hand and hand" I would agree ten thousand times over.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu I must have it backwards then, my bad
hero0fdarkthepker 1 year ago
Socialism is when the school forces the smart students to tutor or financially support the dumb students
Roachenator 1 year ago 4
@Roachenator You are an example of an American who doens't understand socialism
zunathanzu 1 year ago
that's how socialism works in theory, but it never works that way IRL. Get a grip Kiddo.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa Tell that to anyone who has used the public postal service, why doesn't ups do a better job. Prime example of how socialism works better than any capitalist equivalent.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu what? you got it mixed up. the postal service is a government organization, ups is an independent business. you got it completely backwards. you couldn't be more wrong.
MildTabascofries 1 year ago
@zunathanzu The Postal Service in bankrupt! Sure you can argue whether one is a better quality service, but UPS isn't losing money on the hands of taxpayers!
TechMeched 1 year ago
@zunathanzu What do you mean "a better job"? Isn't the postal service in the hole financially? UPS doesn't even try to compete in many ways because no private company can compete with a public one that can lose money every year and survive.
theblur34517 1 year ago
America is a capitalist country, and that's how it should stay. Whether you think Socialism is better or worse doesn't really matter. Fuck, we've had a lot of wars and stock market crashes but still we are a succeeding nation. All of Capitalism. See Greece? Socialist country... just saying.
yourmomskates13 1 year ago
@yourmomskates13 There wasn't a stock market crash in China. Just sayin...
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu cutwe comment. guess that comment was thought out though.. considering until recent history there wasn't a stock market in China. Non-existant there... like human rights are. ''just saying''.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@zunathanzu China isn't socialist... Just saying...
swampfaye 1 year ago
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Its so TRUE, Americans don't understand Socialism at ALL. They get memories of the Cold war and the "evils of Socialism". WAKE UP AMERICA. Socialism is NOT Evil at all, your just giving it a BAD NAME. Americans are so ignorent, its unbelievable..
andy77718 1 year ago
@andy77718 It's to change their viewpoint when certain American news networks continuously broadcast misinformation about how Socialism actually works.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu the only ignorant one is you. thanks!!!!
Urbania05 1 year ago
@andy77718 look im just not into paying for people who can work, all they are doing is sitting on their ass saying "oh Obama will give me money, thats why i voted for him" but i dont want to pay for them now for that people cant physically work ok they need a bit more money to do something fine but they cant work theres a difference
actsof3000 1 year ago
@andy77718 give 93% percent of your pay to your favorite gov't angency.. by all means.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@andy77718 i would suggets you live in a socialist country before making such statements.
jawbone83 1 year ago
Well, I like that you want to help the poor, but I take issue with your "grades" analogy. The assistance you want the state to give to the poor must come from somewhere, and like it or not, it isn't free. Someone has to pay for it, and that's going to lead to the state taking money from the rich to do so, even if some of the rich have no desire to help. Worse yet, the bureaucracy is going to cost more money than if the rich provided jobs to the poor or somesuch. I don't think socialism can work.
Altimadark 1 year ago 10
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@Altimadark even if some rich people don't have the desire to help, it is their duty to do so. I think if you had a bag full of band-aids and came across a man in bleeding to death, you would be morally responsible if you did not give that bleeding man a bandage. Socialism is an enforcement of this morality. Socialism arguable does work, in the majority of developed nations n the world.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu You can't enforce morality without corrupting it.
"The rich," as people put it, tend to invest their money in business in order to grow their money. In so doing, they create jobs, helping multitudes of people. Businesses have to compete with one another, so in order keep up or stay ahead of competition, they have to hire even more people to research how to do so. Enforcing morality, as you put it, risks sacrificing those jobs, hurting people in the name of helping people.
Altimadark 1 year ago 14
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@Altimadark Taxing the rich sacrifices Jobs? Sweden and Demark hav some of the most progressive income taxes in the world, and guess what? They have some of the lowest unemployment rates and highest quality of life. Go democracy! Go socialism!
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu You are aware that, first, their population is much smaller and far less diverse than the USA's, and second, that their "quality of life" is high due in large part to medical research done in the USA? Research that was made possible by "the rich" looking for a way to grow their money.
For all your praise of socialism, it sure seems like it's dependent upon the people you say don't do enough for others.
Altimadark 1 year ago 14
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@Altimadark The population of France is larger than the population of Texas. If France can do it, and US State can.
You give to much credit to the States for Medical discoveries. Medical research exists in every health system.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu Sure, medical research exists outside of the USA, but the USA has produced more medical innovations than any other country, and it didn't need socialized medicine to prompt that research.
Personally, I don't have as big of a problem with individual states experimenting with socialized health care as I do the Federal government. At least the states have vote-with-your-feet competition with one another.
Altimadark 1 year ago 8
@zunathanzu I just have to note that France is part of the reason for the recent economic downturn in Europe, due in large part to socialized programs including Universal Health Care. That should really make you think.
Altimadark 1 year ago 4
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@Altimadark if you guys haven't noticed yet ... a LOT of new reserch is done outside the us ... just a lil fyi
jannikmt 1 year ago
@jannikmt I never denied that research takes place in other countries. Doesn't change the fact that medical research from the US has produced more innovations than medical research in other countries.
Altimadark 1 year ago 6
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@Altimadark but buisnis dose not have to compet when it's a monopoly like walmart
jannikmt 1 year ago
@jannikmt First, the term is Monopsony (in this case), and second, Wal-Mart has several distinct competitors. Have you never been to a K-Mart, Target, or Meijer before?
Altimadark 1 year ago 6
Good Video. I think the professor was talking about Socialism after it has completely left capitalism. Probably more Communist than anything.
In your argument I have to ask...who pays for the tutors? Where do the people who pay the tutors get their money from?
dustyjack 1 year ago
The tutors are provided free of charge by the School. I payed my tuition using student loans from the government and by working a summer job. Does that answer your question? Cation: you can only take allegory so far.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
I think US citizens are instinctively opposed to the notion of "socialism" because of the former enemy's , the USSR, misuse of the system. As far as the health care issue is concerned I am/was appalled that so many people are against it. The rich can pay for care, the really poor had it for nought, and those in the middle, I suppose, "can go to hell". One does not need to be a Christian to see the injustice and lack of altruism in it.
rosmarinusofficialis 1 year ago
@rosmarinusofficialis
Indeed one definitely doesn't need to be Christian to follow the principles of love. But it does increase hypocrisy if politicians outspokenly claim to be followers of a figure(Jesus) who spent His life feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and loving His enemies, when these same politicians resist legislation that would feed the hungry, heal the sick and in addition to all of this they support actions of war and capital punishment rather than diplomacy and rehabilitation
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu I absolutely agree with you, Nathan. A prime example of hypocrisy is our former PM, Blair, who helped Bush to create instability in the Middle East and now poses as Peace Envoy.
rosmarinusofficialis 1 year ago
yes, good points Nathan
rutlegirl 1 year ago
Good points!
mommazed 1 year ago
Agreed. A lot of people can't comprehend that a socialist system doesn't necessarily mean it will bring down the hard working.lol
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020 many people also think it's just a free ride
zunathanzu 1 year ago
But this issue is about helping the "middle class" people that work but aren't covered. I think even if the GOP considers this (health care bill) socialism ...and so? After all aren't we supposed to be a christian nation? Lets do altruistic for a change.We have socialist institutions already. I don't understand them.
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020
As far as GOP is concerned. I think a lot of the resistance is based on fear. Fear of the unknown, and fear motivated by misinformation, perhaps even fear motivated by prejudice(directed at Obama). I agree with the Christian nation part(although I'm only a Canadian living in the US), Jesus said "whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me" So why resist helping those who can not afford health care?
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020 No, we are not a Christian nation. The founding fathers believed getting religion mixed into politics would ruin both, and as such that's why the 1st amendment says, among other things, that the government has no authority to respect or prohibit any religion, in and of itself.
Altimadark 1 year ago 6
I think you missed my point, we say we're a Christian nation but our actions say otherwise ....it's hypocrisy on a grand scale.
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020 But we are NOT a Christian nation. Furthermore, where in the Bible does it say that people have to pay their government in order to help their fellow man? I've never seen any passage suggesting that.
Altimadark 1 year ago 9
This is getting ridiculous. People run around and say that this is Christian nation , on TV,at rallies ,etc. You never heard that before? I'm mocking that notion.
" I've never seen any passage suggesting that." of course not...what's wrong with you?lol
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020 I've heard it before, but I hold that such an assertion is incorrect.
Just because a lot of people say something is true does not necessarily mean it is.
Altimadark 1 year ago 3
Did I say it was true?
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
@Deepstarr7020 You said I'd never heard people say as much, and I responded to that.
Altimadark 1 year ago 2
But all day there's been this confusing back and forth ...why?
What are you trying to tell me?
Deepstarr7020 1 year ago
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@Altimadark
Jesus says to pay taxes "give to Ceasar what is Ceasars". Jesus also lived his life healing the sick and feeding the poor. Would Jesus deny healing somebody because they could not afford to pay their medical bills? I think not!
There are a lot of Americans who claim to be Christian and yet act very un-Christ-like politically. I'm talking about the majority of republicans here.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu Here's the thing: Jesus didn't wait for the Roman government to come in and heal the sick; he went ahead and started doing it himself. The pharisees got angry at him because it was making them look bad. Ultimately, the only way they could have anything done about it was to appeal to the government. There's a lesson for you.
I'm also reminded of the parable of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritan didn't wait on government to help the wounded man, he just went ahead and did so himself.
Altimadark 1 year ago 4
@zunathanzu You forgot the next part :and give God what is Gods. It was in answer to the diciples in asking if they should pay tax. cause they knew how corrurpt the roman goverment had gotten. Jesus was more concerned in them serving God. Your argument is truely laughable. Jesus was not a doctor or an insurance agent. And nowhere will you find Jesus saying the goverment should heal people, or feed the poor. Only in the individual and free choice is there true charity.
ricadrew 1 year ago 2
@zunathanzu True, but Jesus is God and can heal for free and he does not have to deal with being sued, pharmaceuticals etc.
dirx103 1 year ago 3
@dirx103 More accurately, Jesus and God is/are not bound by scarcity -- and scarcity is arguably the cornerstone of all (human) economics.
Altimadark 1 year ago
@zunathanzu your comparing two very different things. Those are examples of miracles happening through faith in God.
MildTabascofries 1 year ago 2
@zunathanzu Jesus never said go to the government for help.
dsrtflwr 1 year ago 4
@dsrtflwr Jesus said give to CEasar what is Ceasars. Jesus said whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.
zunathanzu 1 year ago
@zunathanzu The entirety of what Jesus said was this: Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's. Caesar should be given taxes and God should be given worship, obedience, service, and the dedication of one's whole life. Jesus was making a distinction between government and God. If anything, He was saying the two should be separate, not entwined. He definitely wasn't saying we should rely on government.
dsrtflwr 1 year ago 3
@Altimadark you are incorrect.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 Wow, that's some astounding evidance you've got there.
Altimadark 1 year ago 5
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@Altimadark why on earth should i waste my time? you stated in incorrect fact. im merely telling you you are wrong.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 You are incorrect.
Altimadark 1 year ago 8
@Altimadark yeah, Matthew 22:17 You gotta read some of the Bible before you get to say stuff like "where in the Bible does-"
MildTabascofries 1 year ago 4
@MildTabascofries You need to read a little more carefully. There's nothing in the Bible that suggests that the best way to help your fellow man is to pay the government. The passage in Matthew 22.17 merely asks if it's proper to pay taxes at all.
Altimadark 1 year ago 4
@Altimadark i agree, i was just telling someone (i forgot who) that there is a scripture saying to pay your taxes
MildTabascofries 1 year ago 5
@MildTabascofries Noted. Consider the previous comment rescinded.
Altimadark 1 year ago 5
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@Altimadark Oh but we are a Christian nation no matter how you look at it when you boil it down the foundations for this country are rooted in Christianity.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
imapisces23 1 year ago
@imapisces23 And yet, they still felt it best that religion and government should remain separate from one another.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Altimadark 1 year ago 8
@Altimadark this nation was indeed founded on christian ideals... by christains. our historyt is full of christain ideals. i don't understand why people seem to think religion has no connection what so ever to our gov't. this seperation of church and state thing is an non-issue. it's there. religion IS this country. ALL KINDS. it's a part of us, how we vote, how we govern, how we lead the world.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 They why does the word "God" not appear anywhere in the US Constitution? Or the Bill of Rights?
Altimadark 1 year ago 5
@Altimadark Just cause the word "God" doesn't appear in the Constitution or Bill of Rights doesn't mean shit. It appears in the Declaration, and it is also understood that most of the rights given in the documents are "God" given rights and that no man can take them from you. I'm agnostic, I have no religion, but you cannot deny the blatant references to a God made throughout our history. Many of our founders were Masons, which is probably why the idea of separated church and state even occurred
TheConservatveLibral 1 year ago
@TheConservatveLibral But references to God does not a Christian nation make.
Altimadark 1 year ago 3
@Altimadark If you look at the statistics, christians make up the majority in this country... AS I SAID BEFORE "We are not a Christian Nation, but we are A NATION OF CHRISTIANS"... You said "Not a Christian Nation make!?" wtf are you talking about you inarticulate fuck?
TheConservatveLibral 1 year ago
@TheConservatveLibral Hey, discusion is one thing, but personal attacks is another. Please be respectful, even if you do not agree with someone
zunathanzu 1 year ago 2
@zunathanzu who the hell are you to tell ANYONE to be respectible cow? you socialists are soo two-faced... so hypocritical. and then you dare tell anyone to behave. you don't like this system.. then by all means.. leave.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@TheConservatveLibral Can't say I care for your petty insults, but I'll explain. The phrase "X does not a Y make" simply means that having a component of some greater thing does not, in and of itself, make the greater thing; ie: an engine does not a car make; you still need a frame, a gas tank, wheels, a suspension, steering, brakes, a radiator, etc.
Likewise, simply having Christians in this nation doesn't make it a nation of Christians. There are people of other religions living here as well.
Altimadark 1 year ago 3
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Altimadark 1 year ago 3
@TheConservatveLibral listen im a christain and a conservative... and im telling you that you are wasting your time with this nitwit. he doesn't understand what you are saying.
Urbania05 1 year ago
@Urbania05 More notably, why then does the Treaty of Tripoli state outright that the USA is not a Christian nation?
Altimadark 1 year ago 4
@Altimadark We aren't a Christian Nation... this is true. But you cannot deny that we are a Nation of Christians... ZING
TheConservatveLibral 1 year ago
@TheConservatveLibral Tell that to every Jew, every Buddhist, every Hindu, and every Aethiest in this country, among others.
Altimadark 1 year ago 5