I'm afraid there is not much more I can do with you. I have been a Calvinist for almost 20 years and I have heard all this before. Your views on Calvinism are erroneous. You seem to be angry that God predestinated you to eternal life. Again, it is all about boasting. Man wants to boast in himself, not Christ in regards to his salvation, but that's Arminianism. Your views on Calvinism is not what a Calvinist believes, but what you want them to believe. Your issue is with Paul. Soli Deo Gloria!
No there is not much more you can do. Your views on what I believe are erronius, such as boasting. I am merely pointing out the logical conclusions why you blame God for your evil. It is found in the same reason about boasting. You say its about boasting my will was not caused by God first. You on the other hand cannot boast that sin was all of yours. Your sin is caused by God in Calvinism and now you have room to blame that God made you this way.
Here is where most anti-Calvinist get it wrong. John Calvin doesn't epitomize Calvinism. He was a Calvinist, no doubt, but he, Knox, or even Spurgeon, don't epitomize the Doctrines of Grace; that goes to Paul. In one sense, though not every sense, I don't care of what Calvin said. We can learn from him but the answer to you question must come from the Scriptures. God didn't learn of Adam's fall, He decreed it from times eternal. Satan/man does have a will, but it is limited in what it can do
You are equivocating as all Calvinists do. The will in Calvinism is what God causes the will to do the will does. There is nothing that is permissive in Calvinism. That is what you were saying about Gods control right? What God knows God causes in Calvinism. Men are caused to sin in Calvinism. Adam was not under the nature of the fall. And you said satan had "his own will". Quit equivocating.
You are putting words in my mouth. First of all, I said that Calvin does't epitomize Calvinism, but he was a Calvinist. That is that Calvin is not the face of the Doctrines of Grace, that would be Paul. Calvin was good, he was damn good at what he did but he is help to the Doctrines of Grace, not the author of it. You are struggling with the Doctrine of Predestination. I will ask you in another email a point blank question in relation to Romans 9 on Salvation and fatalism as you call it.
Please dont email me. We can continue to post here. Why do Calvinists remain anonomous? I am not struggling as I am not in contradiction as the Cavinist is. Here is a point blank question. Does God know what He causes, or does He know permissively?
I like your questions. God's control over all things doesn't cause me to sin. Sin is in the creature, not the Creator, however, when God decreed that Adam should fall (and we are glad that He did) He was in control of it (He wasn't surprised or passive) but not the cause. He used the serpent, acting within his own will, to temp Eve and thus the Fall. God is not going to send an angel to do it cuz it isn't within his nature to deceive. God learns nothing; he knows everything and on all conditions
John Calvin comment on Adam "God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it."
-John Calvin (Institutes of the Christian Religion)
(Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 7)
So if as you say God did not cause Adams sin, when did He learn it? Satan had his own will? Are you a dualist?
God controling all things you said doesnt cause me to sin. Then you must hold that it was permissive that you sin, which is Arminian. No you beileive God causes your sin. Read Romans 9.
If you call yourself a Christian and are a real Christian, that means according to Romans 9, that you have been, before the foundation of the world, predestinated to eternal life, forever freed from sin and its consequences, made righteous and holy in God's sight which he accomplished through Christ. Forever with God in a state of glory and worshipping him as he ought to be worshipped, and there is not a damn thing that the world, Satan, or an Arminian can do to prevent it. How is that fatalism?
Then it logically follows that all in hell were predestined to eternal torture and there is nothing in the world they could do otherwise.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
So how is it not fatalism? They were fitted, fated or prepared for destruction.
No one is in hell underserved. God would not be just if he did that regardless if they were predestinated or not. Your issue is not with Calvinism per se, but with Paul and the Scriptures. Nero is in hell because he deserves to be there and even in hell he still will not repent. God could save him if he wanted to but chose not to nor is he obligated to do so. But we are Christians and we need to thank him for what God has done for us through Christ. He did it for you and I because he wanted to
No one is in hell in Calvinism because they want to. They were chosen before they did good or bad.
Rom 9:10-12 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
So what they want or thier sin nature are irrelevant. That is the proper exegesis of Romans 9.
I would agree that they were chosen before they did anything good or bad, just like Paul said. Salvation is all of God which he accomplishes by Christ, so that now one can boast in themselves, which angers the Arminian. However, the saved sinner can boast but only in Christ. Predestination doesn't make God unjust for sending them to hell. God can't be comprehended by anyone but himself and we believe that he knows what he is doing is right regardless of man's objections.
You falsely said that God chose not to save Nero. The reality is He chose to send to hell before he did good or bad. So Nero did not go to hell from Romans 9 if soteriological, because of his evil but because God felt like it. Who are you to question God?
Is God obligated to save Nero? No, he is not; with or without Predestination. He could if he wanted to but chose not to do so. He will give salvation to one but not to another; and who are we to talk back to God for doing so? Rom 9:20.
Well you were the one saying God lets people go to hell. No you agree in Calvinism that God sends them. Thus the equivocation and the fatalism. You are a Universal Determinist and a fatalist. Just be honest enough to admit it. Quit sauying it is because of thier sin and thier evil as you just admittid it is not. Be honest!
I think you are beginning to understand Romans 9 better than you did initially. Why does that bother you that God will save one and not another for no other reason than He chose to do it for himself? I didn't write Romans 9, Paul did. Your problem is that you are focusing on Esau and not on Jacob. You and I don't deserve Heaven, neither did Paul. God saved you, me, Paul, and Jacob because he wanted to and not because he was obligated to. Salvation is by Grace through Christ the Savior.
The problem is tht it took me to pull it out of you in order to admit what it says. The problem is that in Calvinism God is the author of sin and has given men unmerited and irresistable evil. You now are admitting it. Man does not cause his own evil in Calvnism. I have always understood Romans 9 the way it is used in Calvinism. It is you that is finally admitting it. It is fatalism and a universalim. And yes you are blaming God for your evil.
You hold to a determinist necessatarianism that males your evil but a causal outcome of the universal determinist, Calvinist God. And you are just an unwilling receipient. Unless of course you want to argue that you are more obsesses with your will over Gods will.
Where does Romans 9 say He chose not to do so? It says He made the vessels specifically for dishonor if soteriological. 9:21 Please stop. It is dishonest.
Your view of Calvinism is personal, not biblical. Men hate the Doctrines of Grace because they can't boast in their own works. Your main concern is that you can't boast in regards to your view of Romans 9. Calvinists boasts more than anyone else but they boast in Christ and what he has done for them. If you believe that Calvinism is fatalism then you know nothing of the seriousness of sin. Your views are incorrect. You are preoccupied with man's free will rather than with God's free will.
Another anonomous youtbe Calvinist. And a new member.
The truth is that you love Calvinism since sin is all of gods in Calvinism and not of mans self. Quit blaming God for your evi. By your own argumetn you cannot have done any works in your evil. How convenient.
@GBFNorwalk Your typing is not that good, but I will try to work with it. I love Calvinism because it is the Doctrine of God's Word and no other reason than that. God is not the author of sin but he will decree it and it is under his control, such as in Genesis chapter 3. I do not blame God for my sin, I alone am accountable for it. If God did not decree all things then he is not in control of it; and if he is not in control, then he ceases to be who he is. That's what Romans 9 is all about.
It is hard to post from my tablet. Sorry bout da spellin.
You logic is hard to work with as it is a fallacy. So you do not blame God for your sins but, God controls your sin thus causing you to do it. So does he learn that you sin and allow it? I ask since in Calvinism if God does not cause everything then in how they view foreknowledge He would be learning, right?
God is not the author of sin? So did he allow sin permissively and not causally?
Great message! If man starting from Adam to present day is not a moral free agent than we can conclude that God caused man to sin as man could not resist God's will. Thus man's fallen nature is the result of God causing him to sin in the garden. How absurd! Predestination as taught by Calvinism is a false doctrine.
@Wahnsinner If you would like to have a discussion message me. Good Day. I will NOT fight on someone else's comment board. Besides, there is not enough room to reply.
@Wahnsinner Big words? What big words? I guess since you like to pick on younger folks you would have opposed Timothy being an Elder/Bishop, Evangelist, and Pastor huh? The Apostle told him to not let people despise him because he is young, but to be an example. Now to your charge. Calvinism is not Fatalism. Have you ever read the Westminster Confession or Catechisms? If you would, you would clearly see that Fatalism is not in the foundation of the Reformed Faith. Read, don't just assume
@Wahnsinner In Christian love, I forgive you of your harsh words towards me. I have never tried to be an adult. So, that charge of yours fails. I have my age posted for the simple reason that I do not hide who I am. I am not brainwashed, in fact, it took me a long time to fully claim the Doctrines of Grace as my theology. I know what I believe and it is NOT Fatalism. I am no fool, only a sinner saved by God's Grace through faith in Christ. If you have a problem with me, you can email me.
Brother, what is your commentary on this next sentence by Augustine that is being preached in the Calvinism camp, "command what you will and give what you command" ?
Fatalism is not a chance happenstance of events by impersonal forces. Fate implies a "fater", or a personal god is the determining subjugation of all events. The etemology of fatalism is from the pagen false personal gods of the intertestemental period (and beofre) that each god is the cause of events that occur. Posieden, Zues, Boat God, ect. fated personnally all events that occur. In Calvinism the only difference is that the God of the Bible is the fater.
But as many as receive him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:12-13)
I highlighted sentences only to show that Gods will is fundamental in understanding that it is only by God can we be saved. He freed us from the slavery of sin and gave us His Spirit so that we are bonded to Him in Christ through the Holy Spirit.
You are saying CONTRADICTION, just to make yourself look smart in front of your audience. There is no contradiction, but what is in the Bible. Romans 2:14 explanation- For instance pagans practice some good deeds and have aversion to evil deeds, this demonstrates an innate knowledge of God's law. A knowledge that will witness against them as you know on the day of judgement..
That is what Arminians believe. It cannot be tru in Calvinism. They know only evil contiually. You are the one who is in contradiction and came on my audience with disrespect and sarcasim. So dont wyne now.
@GBFNorwalk YOu argue like a cultist would argue. You never answer any points and just say random stuff to sound smart. You would never win in a debate in real life.
I am sorry you have come to lying. I have asked you to answer the same questions over and over. I gave an exegetical response to Romans 9. I have explicitely over and over asked you to deal with it and you have not. I have asked you for Biblical proof to refute what I have said. You only avoided the subject.
@GBFNorwalk No you are still just saying random stuff. You never looked at the Scripture I showed and instead just quoted john calvin books. And now you accuse me of lying. You are insane. Goodbye.
Now the Divine knowledge of the future is not a mere abstraction, but something which is inseparably connected with and accompanied by His purpose. God has Himself designed whatsoever shall yet be, and what He has designed must be effectuated. As His most sure Word affirms, "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand"
We all know the truth of God even the pagans, it is in our nature as in Romans 2:14. Exactly. The unelect will exchange the "truth for a lie", hence false religions, false doctrines, and false gods. Romans 1 shows that the people did exchange the "truth for a lie" and God hardened their hearts! And you still don't know why God would harden an already hardened heart.
No in Calvinism the pagans did exactly what God caused them to do. There could be no exchange of truth in Calvinism. God caused thier paganism and did it before they did good or bad. God in Calvinism causes all that is caused in how you view His presceince so they could not logically exchange anything. Contradiction again.
This is from Gruman Systematic Theology. (Calvinist)
"If we assume that God's knowledge of the future is true (which evangelicals all agree upon), then it is absolutely certain that person A will believe and person B will not. There is no way their lives could turn out any differently than this. Therefore it is fair to say that their destinies are still determined, for they could not be otherwise.
So it cannot be true that anyone is unelect. They would be elected for destruction before they were born. Douple posative posative predestination only logical conclusion.
Romans 1:26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. (AS) For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse [r] for what is unnatural. 27 The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse [s] with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males (AT) and received in their own persons [t] the appropriate penalty for their perversion.
So then are you a Pelagian who were not born in sin but God had to reprobate them after man sins for a while. Typical Calvinist contradictions. Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) In Calvinism man is not reprobated for evil but before they even sinned or did evil. Which is it?
Romans 1:24 24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts (AP) to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, (AQ) and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever. (AR) Amen.
Wow my God is the GOd of Romans 1:18-32! verse 28 And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. 29 They are filled with all unrighteousness,evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, disputes, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,...
@nikechic619 ...31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful.Although they know full well God's just sentence—that those who practice such things deserve to die they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
So then are you a Pelagian who were not born in sin but God had to reprobate them after man sins for a while. Typical Calvinist contradictions. Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) In Calvinism man is not reprobated for evil but before they even sinned or did evil. Which is it?
@GBFNorwalk We were born in sin and deserve hell as the Bible says. God's sovereignly elects us to be saved. ( He does all the work). The outward signs of a true Christ follower is being born again and displaying fruits of the spirit. All men through Adam are a slave to sin, only God can make us a slave to righteousness. We cannot do this on our own because there is "no one who seeks after God."
Yes just like your friend. You did not answer the question you misdirect. Is God given men over or born in total inability. If it is Calvinist inability then Romans 1 is illogical to use for reprobation as Romans 9 says man was fitted for destruction before they were born. Which is it and this time answer the questions.
@GBFNorwalk What don't you understand? The Bible clearly says we all sin. Romans 1 says He kept the hard hearted hearts hard. Not that they were any worse than you and I as far as sin is concerned. Do you agree that God knew us while we were in our womb, and what kind of person we would turn out to be? He has saved the worst of the worst such as King David, and sent "good" people like the rich young ruler to hell. Yes, both were predestined!
It cannot both be true that God reprobates men in Romans 9 before they did good or evil and also kept hearts hard in Romans 1. Where does Romans 1 say God kept harts hard and why would He have to keep a heart hard? Were the men in Romans 1 about to be Holy and God had to stop them?
@GBFNorwalk Oh wow. Your a pastor? 1:24 "Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity.. 1:28 "And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong" Were the men in Romans 1 about to be Holy and God had to stop them? No. Wow, you do discern like a secular humanist.
@GBFNorwalk Why would he have to keep a heart hard??? Are you serious??? Oh ok I see the confusion. He didn't have to keep it hard as if they were going to suddenly change but He had to harden just to keep them hellbound. It is talking about the overall nature of the people that aren't saved. Just like Pharaoh (who's heart was hardened by God) , the signs of the unelect are an unrepentant heart and no signs of the fruit of the spirit. That is how we know who amongst us who is truly elect.
Rom 1:24-25 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator,
These were people who exchanged the truth for the lie so God gave them over. It does not say He left them. It says He manifest in them vs.19 and they exchanged the truth. Hardly merely leaving them in their sin.
@GBFNorwalk You don't think God leaves people in their sin? He does. They are unrepentant slaves to sin. The unelect. SO you have a problem with a God that leaves people in their sins?
Romans 9 does not say people are unelect it says if Calvinistic soteriology that all are made either for honor or dishonor so double predestination and equal ultimacy which is a posative posative double predestination.
Where does the Bible say God has to keep men hellbound. Eisegesis! What kind of phylosophy is this? Romans 9 says God fitted men for destruction before they did good and bad. And you say He had to harden them after birth?
@GBFNorwalk No i didn't at all mean to say that God has to keep men hellbound. So you are misunderstanding. You asked me why God has to harden hearts? Why do you think God has to harden hearts? I thought YOU were thinking that God hardens hearts to keep them in their predestined hell.
@GBFNorwalk this is what I said "ok I see the confusion. He didn't have to keep it hard as if they were going to suddenly change but He had to harden just to keep them hellbound" I said this thinking you were thinking that. Because you asked me why God would harden a heart that is already wicked. That is NOT what i believe!
But you used Romans 1 to prove to me that God did have to harden the hearts of men whos hearts wer already hardened before they born. You are in contradiction. So why did you use Romans 1 then?
You said it was proof God leaves men in tier sins. But then you said it proves God holds men in sin and then they have a disposition and then he hardens hearts. Whatever. Why did God have to reprobate the hearts of the already reprobate before they were born?
@GBFNorwalk ahhhh. No you were just misunderstanding the writing. I am not claiming that God hardens hearts to keep them hellbound according to his predestination. ( As if they were begging for mercy and salvation!) Romans 1 indeed talks about the wicked predisposition of men and yes how God still "delivered them over to a worthless mind, to do what is morally wrong."
Romans 1 says they exchanged the truth for a lie, and then God gives them over. What truth exchange in the doctrine of total depravity would they be given over to reprobation for? And why would God have to do this to one who is already been reprobated before they were born and had done good or evil in Romans 9?
@GBFNorwalk What do you have a problem with again? So you have a problem with God having a predestined elect? You don't agree that some are condemned to hell before they were born?
Romans 9 Greek for fitted and makes In Calvinism God does not pass over sinful man but in how Calvinists view Romans 9:22 God fitted man for destruction. Therefore in Calvinism God has reprobated man unconditionally.
The Greek word is Katartizo. The tense is perfect passive participle and means fitted, prepared,
Also in verse 21, God (makes) vessels for dishonor. The word (make) is poieo. It is Aorist, active, infinitive tense and means the author of , to cause, to prepare, to fashion for..
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
@GBFNorwalk Look around at all the hearts the Lord has hardened. (The Bible says God hardens hearts you know)The only thing we can do is deliver the Gospel and let God do the work, if He is going to do it. You seem to not believe that our God is in control and sovereign. Believing in things other than grace for salvation, makes your evangelism about you, and not about God. You probably take credit for the people you see turn to the Lord for salvation. Nope. God already knew he/she would.
@GBFNorwalk God is soveriegn and in control and forsees and controles the future as well as the present. So yes John Calvin is correct in saying God predestines everything and wills it to happen and it does. But that is not to say God created sin. God willed to create mankind which would rebel. He did not create humans that would not have a free choice to sin. He created people who would choose sin and reject Him. Mankind is incapable of doing good according to God's standards. Depravity.
Where does the Bible say God pulls the elect out of all the people that are headed for hell? I did not see the verse for that. Romans 9 says God fitted men for hell before they did good or evil. Doesent sound like He left hem in thier sins to me if Romans 9 is a soteriology.
@GBFNorwalk Its called an ANALOGY! And the scriptures describe such a thing. No one is good, all are incapable, God gives grace to the elect, elect go to heaven and non-elect remain under God's wrath and end up in hell. Get it? Its simple. Explain the scriptures I quoted.
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
@GBFNorwalk God knew what would happen in the future. But God also planned to use the fall of man for His glory to display who He is with justice as well as mercy. God could have created perfect people who would never sin but he chose not to. He created man that would be capable to freely choose evil, which they only do. God in His sovereign election gives His grace to the unbeliever and changes their heart and they repent and believe by God's power alone not their own "desire to repent."
You did not answer the question again. Most all Christians believe God had a plan in the fall. But as a Calvinist, was Adam free to do otherwise, thus making according to your own arguments concerning foreknoledge, God must have been loking down the tunnel of time and synergisticlly God the Creator cooperating with man the creature to see if Adam would fall?
@GBFNorwalk So you will ignore all scripture I mentioned, and not even bring up any scripture to support your arminian beliefs, and then ask me a silly philosphical question? Obvioously if God did not want Adam to sin he wouldnt have created free thinking humans. This has nothing to do with a middle knowledge position that you are trying to force on me. God forknew, forsaw, and also predestined people. Forknowing to me is forloving, Others God did not forlove and left them to themselves...
I did give you an exegesis of 3 verses in Romans 9. Now your being dishonest. Also asked for your proof text for (leaving men in sin) and you gave none.
Everything is controlled by God’s secret purpose, and nothing can happen except by his knowledge and will. (The Institutes of Christian Religion, p.72)
@GBFNorwalk You dont read the bible do you? You seem to mistake quoting theology books and church history books with quoting bible verses to make a point....by the way that comment by John Calvin does not at all contradict anything I said. You seem to think God has absolutely no control over His creation and its going wild and He cant do anything about it. You dont think God has a will that is always accomplished? Have you ever read the bible sir?
...for destruction. You dont even seem to understand Fatalism. Fatalism is a belief that everything is prdetermined including every time you take a breath or move your hand or drive. Its all been set in place. Calvinism does not teach this. I can do anything I want to do, and we were born under the curse of sin and all humans only want to sin. God did create beings he knew would end up in hell and made them to go to hell. Did he not?
Fatalism is the thesis that human acts occur by necessity and hence are unfree. Theological fatalism is the thesis that infallible foreknowledge of a human act makes the act necessary and hence unfree. If there is a being who knows infallibly the entire future, then no human act is free.
@GBFNorwalk Even with your armenian middle knowledge type beliefs why then would God make a person if he knew they would rebel and sin anyway if God intensely did not want that person to go to hell? So God has to woo people and impress them to get saved? What a weak God.
@GBFNorwalk He also holds to evlotuion and other false doctrines and he goes to Biola where I used to go which does not say much for his theological beliefs. He may know his way around the bible but he doesnt understand it or isnt being honest. James White the man you hate knows his bible far better. Also it doesnt matter if Craig knows his bible because he is not you. You obviously dont know yours since you appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy.
Is there a time when you are going to address my scripture references and questions or are you going to waist time dodging them? As we can conclude that since you have no exegesis for Romans 9 that you must concede. You must have read Potters Freedom?
@GBFNorwalk What are you talking about? I have a lot of Scripture I mentioned in the comments earlier you never addressed and now you are telling me I am not addressing your scripture? Sorry dude your video is so long and boring I dont have time to sift through it. What is the exegesis for Romans 9 then?
@MaharlikaAWA In Calvinism God cannot have merely passed over sinful man in how Calvinists view Romans as soteriological election. Romans 9:22 says God fitted man for destruction. Therefore in Calvinism God has reprobated man unconditionally.
The Greek word is Katartizo. The tense is perfect passive participle and means fitted, prepared.
The passive does not mean God acted passively, the passive voice denotes the merely the recipient of the action.
Also in verse 21, God (makes) vessels for dishonor. The word (make) is poieo. It is Aorist, active, infinitive tense and means the author of , to cause, to prepare, to fashion for..
So if Romans 9 is soteriological then God in Calvinism has reprobated man unconditionally as in verse 11 they were fated for reprobation before they did good or evil thus there is no passing over man or leaving man in their sin but a fated or fitted unconditional and unmerited reprobation.
So you think you are dealing with me do you. You are only good at avoiding my comments and questions. Please answer where is the prooftext or any exegesis that God leaves men in thier sin?
Yes THATS WHY i ASKED FOR YOUR PROOFTEXTS AND SHOWED YOU THAT FROM ROMANS 9 MEN IN CALVINSM ARE FITTED IRRESISABLY AND UNCONDITIONALY FOR REPROBATION. NOT LEFT IN THIER SINS. THAT IS EISEGESIS
Oh Jesus was not strong enough to save those who went to hell but he tried? Your God is weak....my God is powerful enough to save even the worst sinners like Paul or King Mannessah in the Bible who repented and believed. God converted Paul himself on the road to demascus. Calvinisn is not fatalism because man can do whatever he wants, but all he wants is sin but God changed the heart for His elect. Your belief is works.
Dude you dont even get calvinism! Man does what he most greatly desires. Man's greatest desire is to sin and reject God. There is no way they can be saved or even choose to follow God. Read romans 9. The bible says it. Jeremiah says "The heart is exceedingly wicked." Genesis says "Mans thoughts in all his days are nothing but evil since his youth" in chapter 3. It takes God to change a heart and give grace. You cannot do it. This is works salvtion you promote. And what do you say to guys in hell
Oh I get Calvinism. Calvinism makes God the author and finisher of evil and man has not even sinned freely but caused by God to sin. This video is about Romans 9 and it teaches if Calvinistic that man sins by Gods cause even before they did good or evil.
@GBFNorwalk Are you kidding me? Calvinism does not teach God created evil. That is a straw man argument. No calvinist believes that! Man has free will, but his free will is to sin. God did not command people to sin, but people sin on their own. Only God brings them out of destruction through His grace. You seem to teach that man has to be good enough somehow or smart enough to choose God or else God will rejct them. Its works! And if God took the entire worlds sins why do people go to hell?
Of course God in Calvinism created evil. Are you sure your not Arminian?
John Calvin comment on Adam "God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it."
-John Calvin (Institutes of the Christian Religion)
@GBFNorwalk John Calvin is talking about Romans 1:26 where "God delivered man to his own degrading passions" and verse 32 says those who do such things deserve to die and the people practicing them know full well God's just sentence. God delivers people to destruction in such ways. This is not fatalism, its just man's perverse nature.
Man is free to only sin. This is the most common Calvinist contradiction I hear. Man is never free if he can ONLY do one thing. This is dialetheism. This is fatalism.
@GBFNorwalk This is not at all fatalism. God forsaw sin but did not create it. If he did arrange the fall of man, it was that God gave man up to his own sin and released them to their ruin. This isnt God creating sin. And Calvinism does not teach that man CAN ONLY sin because this is obviously straw man argument. Man can do good deeds sometimes, but without God his intention to do them has nothing to do with God but for his own ideas and wants.
@GBFNorwalk If a man helps the poor withou acknowledging God then who is he doing it for? Himself! Selfishness and pride is what sinners live for. Man was created to have a mind for God. In this sense man onyl does evil all the time. Why does Gen. 8:21 say that mans inclination is evil from his youth? Gen 6:5 says that the scheme of every man's mind is thinking nothing but evil all the time? Are these Scriptures lying or false? Do you deny these scripture?
@GBFNorwalk Start usin Scripture instead of man made phislophical ideas to back up your theological points. Job 36:13-15 says, "those who have a godless heart harbor anger; even when God binds them, they do not cry for help." It goes on to say that their lives end up among male cult prostitutes and Go uses affliction to rescue his elect and instructs them by means of their torment. So in this way God does arrange for destruction when people willfully are unrepentent.
@GBFNorwalk Ecclesiastes 9:3 says "The hearts of people are full of evil, and madness is in their hears while they live---after that they go to the dead."
Romans 3:10 says "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. 12All have turned away, together they have become useless; there is no one who does good not even one."
The Bible says NO ONE DOES GOOD OR EVEN SEEKS AFTER GOD. Can you explain this? Does the bible have error now?
@GBFNorwalk As it is written: "There is no one righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seek after God. They all have turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." It's both in the OT and NT in my Bible, how about yours?
@nikechic619 Yep Psalm 14:1-3 Psalm 53:1-3 too, aaannnnd Ecclesiastes 7:20 which says, "There is certainly no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
By the way the last time I was in Biolas Library (wich was not that long ago) there were 99% Theology books and 1 percent Bibles. Did they not give you Theology books when you went there?
@GBFNorwalk Man can only do what his greatest desire is. Even if there is a slight chance he wants to do something good and knows better to follow God, he wont. He will sin because sin is his greatest desire. Man free will in what he wants to do. Like who he wants to marry where he wants to live if he wants to go to college or not. If he wants to commit a sin or not. But mankind always sins and only by God's grace in election can anyone be saved. They have been predestined before creation. Bible
The question concerns those for whom Christ died.Was He trying to save everybody worldwide?Was He trying to make the entire world His Bride?
Does man’s unbelief keep the Savior’s hands tied?Biblically, each of these must be denied .It’s true, Jesus gave up His life for His Bride. But His Bride is the elect, to whom His death is applied.If on judgment day, you see that you can’t hide
And because of your sin, God’s wrath on you abides And hell is the place you eternally reside.
@nikechic619 That means your wrath from God hasn’t been satisfied But we believe His mission was accomplished when He died.But how the cross relates to those in hell?Well, they be saying:Lord knows He tried
No those in hell will be there in Calvinism because God fitted them for destruction before they did good or evil just because He felt like it and to bring Himself pleasure. So they will not even be in hell for thier sins because they were fitted before they ever did good or evil.
@GBFNorwalk No this is man made philosophy. So far I showed scripture you need to explain to me. So please do it instead of these immature arguments. God does not put sin in man, they are already sinners. Calvinism teaches that all men are already headed to hell yet God pulls the elect out by His grace. People in a dark pit by their own error yet God pulls some out.
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
Where does the Bible say God pulls the elect out of all the people that are headed for hell? I did not see the verse for that. Romans 9 says God fitted men for hell before they did good or evil. Doesent sound like He left hem in thier sins to me if Romans 9 is a soteriology.
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
@GBFNorwalk Ask, was the Bible written for the elect or for the unrepentant unbeliever to ridicule and scrutinize? The Bible was written for the elect. Therefore in Revelation 3: 10-11 he tells His elect He will keep them "save them" from the hour of trial. The hour of trial is tribulation yes, but couldn't it also imply those who are not saved and are destined for hell? We deserve hell as the Bible says because we cannot do good. But by the grace of God he changes our hearts...
The only thing I have to say is you need to Get more excited about what you are doing and get rid of the monotone voice and read what you need to read before you post and then use those resources to back up what you have to say. We have a Bible and can look things up we just want to hear your thoughts
Why do you provide the same answer to both video's when one is always irrelevant. People actually look to you as a 'Pastor'? Are they all mentally challenged or strapped in a gurney? You're absolutely nuts!
Why don't you answer each question with an individually dedicated response instead of spaming generic answers that make no sense?
I'm exceedingly worried about whatever cockamamie congregation gathers under your frightfully egregious illogical sophist mind.
Yes I blocked RefutingSkellyism. He is not demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit. Please go through the comments and you will see an irrational, irate person who ultimately threatens to visit our outreach fellowship to divide it. He uses an anonymous account to hide behind and has not proven anything. Please read through the comments yourselves and see what type of persons I deal with on a regular basis. Also you will see his faulty arguments. You decide for yourselves.
This sap is confused about the meaning of the word 'cause', then furthers his fallacious comprehension as a dogma of Calvinists.
For instance, did God not know Adam would sin? Could Adam sin without God knowing He would? The author of this video refuses to answer this question, because it repudiates every slander he attempts to levy upon Calvinists.
Why was Christ slain before the foundation of the world? Rev.13:8
If then God knew, He allowed, & therefore caused but not so as coerced.
If I were a sophist you would have to prove my logic to be in contradiction. But you have not, yet I have already proven you to be in contradiction on my video Calvinism Unconditional Reprobation. I think you are being convicted of your sin of blaming God for your evil. Are you now going to spam my videos? I already proved you wrong and you quit the debate. I asked you to provide any Calvinist Theologian that holds to (in Gods knowledge he allows sin). That is Arminian.
@GBFNorwalk There is no point is proving what alleged Calvinists believe or what you think they say or mean. Calvinism, the TULIP, the 5 Sola's are all clearly proven by the Bible. You problem is you don't believe the Bible. Your problem is the Bible. You're an easily refuted liar and heretic. Bring it on baby, I'll crush you on every point as I have already done. Do you enjoy getting beaten over and over again?
@GBF "If I were a sophist you would have to prove my logic to be in contradiction. " I did, you said secondary causes are primary causes. This same erroneous logic of yours, applies to God allowing something is also His primary cause. It's the same logic you impose on what you think Calvinists say. Yet it applies more cogently to your idiocy. Thus I have proven you to contradict yourself and have been demonstrated a sophist.
I'm afraid there is not much more I can do with you. I have been a Calvinist for almost 20 years and I have heard all this before. Your views on Calvinism are erroneous. You seem to be angry that God predestinated you to eternal life. Again, it is all about boasting. Man wants to boast in himself, not Christ in regards to his salvation, but that's Arminianism. Your views on Calvinism is not what a Calvinist believes, but what you want them to believe. Your issue is with Paul. Soli Deo Gloria!
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
No there is not much more you can do. Your views on what I believe are erronius, such as boasting. I am merely pointing out the logical conclusions why you blame God for your evil. It is found in the same reason about boasting. You say its about boasting my will was not caused by God first. You on the other hand cannot boast that sin was all of yours. Your sin is caused by God in Calvinism and now you have room to blame that God made you this way.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I ment on this post @ Calvinism 101
Looks to me like your preoccupied with satans free will and not Gods free will.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
So God is not the author of the Bible by your reasoning. God controlled it to be written, but men are the authors?
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
Here is where most anti-Calvinist get it wrong. John Calvin doesn't epitomize Calvinism. He was a Calvinist, no doubt, but he, Knox, or even Spurgeon, don't epitomize the Doctrines of Grace; that goes to Paul. In one sense, though not every sense, I don't care of what Calvin said. We can learn from him but the answer to you question must come from the Scriptures. God didn't learn of Adam's fall, He decreed it from times eternal. Satan/man does have a will, but it is limited in what it can do
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
You are equivocating as all Calvinists do. The will in Calvinism is what God causes the will to do the will does. There is nothing that is permissive in Calvinism. That is what you were saying about Gods control right? What God knows God causes in Calvinism. Men are caused to sin in Calvinism. Adam was not under the nature of the fall. And you said satan had "his own will". Quit equivocating.
Calvin wasnt a Calvinist. Interesting.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
You are putting words in my mouth. First of all, I said that Calvin does't epitomize Calvinism, but he was a Calvinist. That is that Calvin is not the face of the Doctrines of Grace, that would be Paul. Calvin was good, he was damn good at what he did but he is help to the Doctrines of Grace, not the author of it. You are struggling with the Doctrine of Predestination. I will ask you in another email a point blank question in relation to Romans 9 on Salvation and fatalism as you call it.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Please dont email me. We can continue to post here. Why do Calvinists remain anonomous? I am not struggling as I am not in contradiction as the Cavinist is. Here is a point blank question. Does God know what He causes, or does He know permissively?
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
I like your questions. God's control over all things doesn't cause me to sin. Sin is in the creature, not the Creator, however, when God decreed that Adam should fall (and we are glad that He did) He was in control of it (He wasn't surprised or passive) but not the cause. He used the serpent, acting within his own will, to temp Eve and thus the Fall. God is not going to send an angel to do it cuz it isn't within his nature to deceive. God learns nothing; he knows everything and on all conditions
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
You do not hold to Calvinism proper.
John Calvin comment on Adam "God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it."
-John Calvin (Institutes of the Christian Religion)
(Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 7)
So if as you say God did not cause Adams sin, when did He learn it? Satan had his own will? Are you a dualist?
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
God controling all things you said doesnt cause me to sin. Then you must hold that it was permissive that you sin, which is Arminian. No you beileive God causes your sin. Read Romans 9.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
If you call yourself a Christian and are a real Christian, that means according to Romans 9, that you have been, before the foundation of the world, predestinated to eternal life, forever freed from sin and its consequences, made righteous and holy in God's sight which he accomplished through Christ. Forever with God in a state of glory and worshipping him as he ought to be worshipped, and there is not a damn thing that the world, Satan, or an Arminian can do to prevent it. How is that fatalism?
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Then it logically follows that all in hell were predestined to eternal torture and there is nothing in the world they could do otherwise.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
So how is it not fatalism? They were fitted, fated or prepared for destruction.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
No one is in hell underserved. God would not be just if he did that regardless if they were predestinated or not. Your issue is not with Calvinism per se, but with Paul and the Scriptures. Nero is in hell because he deserves to be there and even in hell he still will not repent. God could save him if he wanted to but chose not to nor is he obligated to do so. But we are Christians and we need to thank him for what God has done for us through Christ. He did it for you and I because he wanted to
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
No one is in hell in Calvinism because they want to. They were chosen before they did good or bad.
Rom 9:10-12 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
So what they want or thier sin nature are irrelevant. That is the proper exegesis of Romans 9.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
I would agree that they were chosen before they did anything good or bad, just like Paul said. Salvation is all of God which he accomplishes by Christ, so that now one can boast in themselves, which angers the Arminian. However, the saved sinner can boast but only in Christ. Predestination doesn't make God unjust for sending them to hell. God can't be comprehended by anyone but himself and we believe that he knows what he is doing is right regardless of man's objections.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
You falsely said that God chose not to save Nero. The reality is He chose to send to hell before he did good or bad. So Nero did not go to hell from Romans 9 if soteriological, because of his evil but because God felt like it. Who are you to question God?
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
Is God obligated to save Nero? No, he is not; with or without Predestination. He could if he wanted to but chose not to do so. He will give salvation to one but not to another; and who are we to talk back to God for doing so? Rom 9:20.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Well you were the one saying God lets people go to hell. No you agree in Calvinism that God sends them. Thus the equivocation and the fatalism. You are a Universal Determinist and a fatalist. Just be honest enough to admit it. Quit sauying it is because of thier sin and thier evil as you just admittid it is not. Be honest!
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Now lets watch you eqivocate some more.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
I think you are beginning to understand Romans 9 better than you did initially. Why does that bother you that God will save one and not another for no other reason than He chose to do it for himself? I didn't write Romans 9, Paul did. Your problem is that you are focusing on Esau and not on Jacob. You and I don't deserve Heaven, neither did Paul. God saved you, me, Paul, and Jacob because he wanted to and not because he was obligated to. Salvation is by Grace through Christ the Savior.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
The problem is tht it took me to pull it out of you in order to admit what it says. The problem is that in Calvinism God is the author of sin and has given men unmerited and irresistable evil. You now are admitting it. Man does not cause his own evil in Calvnism. I have always understood Romans 9 the way it is used in Calvinism. It is you that is finally admitting it. It is fatalism and a universalim. And yes you are blaming God for your evil.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
You hold to a determinist necessatarianism that males your evil but a causal outcome of the universal determinist, Calvinist God. And you are just an unwilling receipient. Unless of course you want to argue that you are more obsesses with your will over Gods will.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Where does Romans 9 say He chose not to do so? It says He made the vessels specifically for dishonor if soteriological. 9:21 Please stop. It is dishonest.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
Your view of Calvinism is personal, not biblical. Men hate the Doctrines of Grace because they can't boast in their own works. Your main concern is that you can't boast in regards to your view of Romans 9. Calvinists boasts more than anyone else but they boast in Christ and what he has done for them. If you believe that Calvinism is fatalism then you know nothing of the seriousness of sin. Your views are incorrect. You are preoccupied with man's free will rather than with God's free will.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
Another anonomous youtbe Calvinist. And a new member.
The truth is that you love Calvinism since sin is all of gods in Calvinism and not of mans self. Quit blaming God for your evi. By your own argumetn you cannot have done any works in your evil. How convenient.
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
@GBFNorwalk Your typing is not that good, but I will try to work with it. I love Calvinism because it is the Doctrine of God's Word and no other reason than that. God is not the author of sin but he will decree it and it is under his control, such as in Genesis chapter 3. I do not blame God for my sin, I alone am accountable for it. If God did not decree all things then he is not in control of it; and if he is not in control, then he ceases to be who he is. That's what Romans 9 is all about.
Calvinism101 1 month ago
@Calvinism101
It is hard to post from my tablet. Sorry bout da spellin.
You logic is hard to work with as it is a fallacy. So you do not blame God for your sins but, God controls your sin thus causing you to do it. So does he learn that you sin and allow it? I ask since in Calvinism if God does not cause everything then in how they view foreknowledge He would be learning, right?
God is not the author of sin? So did he allow sin permissively and not causally?
GBFNorwalk 1 month ago
Even though God can see the ultimate outcome, how does this relate to man's perspective and the freedom of his will?
goonsnak2k 6 months ago
Great message! If man starting from Adam to present day is not a moral free agent than we can conclude that God caused man to sin as man could not resist God's will. Thus man's fallen nature is the result of God causing him to sin in the garden. How absurd! Predestination as taught by Calvinism is a false doctrine.
bibledoctrine 8 months ago
@Wahnsinner If you would like to have a discussion message me. Good Day. I will NOT fight on someone else's comment board. Besides, there is not enough room to reply.
OneFaithMinistries 8 months ago
@Wahnsinner Big words? What big words? I guess since you like to pick on younger folks you would have opposed Timothy being an Elder/Bishop, Evangelist, and Pastor huh? The Apostle told him to not let people despise him because he is young, but to be an example. Now to your charge. Calvinism is not Fatalism. Have you ever read the Westminster Confession or Catechisms? If you would, you would clearly see that Fatalism is not in the foundation of the Reformed Faith. Read, don't just assume
OneFaithMinistries 8 months ago
Also, I will no longer discuss this on a comment board. If you would like to have a nice discussion about this, feel free to message me. Good Day. :)
OneFaithMinistries 8 months ago
@Wahnsinner In Christian love, I forgive you of your harsh words towards me. I have never tried to be an adult. So, that charge of yours fails. I have my age posted for the simple reason that I do not hide who I am. I am not brainwashed, in fact, it took me a long time to fully claim the Doctrines of Grace as my theology. I know what I believe and it is NOT Fatalism. I am no fool, only a sinner saved by God's Grace through faith in Christ. If you have a problem with me, you can email me.
OneFaithMinistries 8 months ago
Brother, what is your commentary on this next sentence by Augustine that is being preached in the Calvinism camp, "command what you will and give what you command" ?
apollos6640 1 year ago
Well I looked up Fatalism, and gave you the Wkipedia definition, but I would have to agree with you about its origins, good call.
apollos6640 1 year ago
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine emphasizing the subjugation of ALL events, or actions to FATE.
Calvinism holds a philosophical doctrine emphasizing the subjugation of ALL events, or actions to GOD
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640
I beg to differ.
Fatalism is not a chance happenstance of events by impersonal forces. Fate implies a "fater", or a personal god is the determining subjugation of all events. The etemology of fatalism is from the pagen false personal gods of the intertestemental period (and beofre) that each god is the cause of events that occur. Posieden, Zues, Boat God, ect. fated personnally all events that occur. In Calvinism the only difference is that the God of the Bible is the fater.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
WAY OFF
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries
Why?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Calvinism is NOT Fatalism. Period. There are no if ands or buts about it.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries
You must demonstrate why.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk No, I don't have to. It is a fact. As a CALVINIST, I can simply tell you that that is not our belief. Period.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
But as many as receive him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:12-13)
I highlighted sentences only to show that Gods will is fundamental in understanding that it is only by God can we be saved. He freed us from the slavery of sin and gave us His Spirit so that we are bonded to Him in Christ through the Holy Spirit.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
You are saying CONTRADICTION, just to make yourself look smart in front of your audience. There is no contradiction, but what is in the Bible. Romans 2:14 explanation- For instance pagans practice some good deeds and have aversion to evil deeds, this demonstrates an innate knowledge of God's law. A knowledge that will witness against them as you know on the day of judgement..
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
That is what Arminians believe. It cannot be tru in Calvinism. They know only evil contiually. You are the one who is in contradiction and came on my audience with disrespect and sarcasim. So dont wyne now.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk You disrespect God, by deceiving people. You need a good rebuking. God harden's hearts, it's biblical and he does so cause he can.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk YOu argue like a cultist would argue. You never answer any points and just say random stuff to sound smart. You would never win in a debate in real life.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
I am sorry you have come to lying. I have asked you to answer the same questions over and over. I gave an exegetical response to Romans 9. I have explicitely over and over asked you to deal with it and you have not. I have asked you for Biblical proof to refute what I have said. You only avoided the subject.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk No you are still just saying random stuff. You never looked at the Scripture I showed and instead just quoted john calvin books. And now you accuse me of lying. You are insane. Goodbye.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Stevie wonder could see your contradictions. You should consider them before you throw the first stones.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
A W Pink (Calvinist)
Now the Divine knowledge of the future is not a mere abstraction, but something which is inseparably connected with and accompanied by His purpose. God has Himself designed whatsoever shall yet be, and what He has designed must be effectuated. As His most sure Word affirms, "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand"
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
We all know the truth of God even the pagans, it is in our nature as in Romans 2:14. Exactly. The unelect will exchange the "truth for a lie", hence false religions, false doctrines, and false gods. Romans 1 shows that the people did exchange the "truth for a lie" and God hardened their hearts! And you still don't know why God would harden an already hardened heart.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
No in Calvinism the pagans did exactly what God caused them to do. There could be no exchange of truth in Calvinism. God caused thier paganism and did it before they did good or bad. God in Calvinism causes all that is caused in how you view His presceince so they could not logically exchange anything. Contradiction again.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
This is from Gruman Systematic Theology. (Calvinist)
"If we assume that God's knowledge of the future is true (which evangelicals all agree upon), then it is absolutely certain that person A will believe and person B will not. There is no way their lives could turn out any differently than this. Therefore it is fair to say that their destinies are still determined, for they could not be otherwise.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
So it cannot be true that anyone is unelect. They would be elected for destruction before they were born. Douple posative posative predestination only logical conclusion.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
Romans 1:26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. (AS) For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse [r] for what is unnatural. 27 The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse [s] with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males (AT) and received in their own persons [t] the appropriate penalty for their perversion.
Yup that's my fatalistic God!
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
So then are you a Pelagian who were not born in sin but God had to reprobate them after man sins for a while. Typical Calvinist contradictions. Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) In Calvinism man is not reprobated for evil but before they even sinned or did evil. Which is it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
Romans 1:24 24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts (AP) to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, (AQ) and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever. (AR) Amen.
Yup that's my God!
nikechic619 1 year ago
Wow my God is the GOd of Romans 1:18-32! verse 28 And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. 29 They are filled with all unrighteousness,evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, disputes, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,...
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619 ...31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful.Although they know full well God's just sentence—that those who practice such things deserve to die they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
So then are you a Pelagian who were not born in sin but God had to reprobate them after man sins for a while. Typical Calvinist contradictions. Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) In Calvinism man is not reprobated for evil but before they even sinned or did evil. Which is it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk We were born in sin and deserve hell as the Bible says. God's sovereignly elects us to be saved. ( He does all the work). The outward signs of a true Christ follower is being born again and displaying fruits of the spirit. All men through Adam are a slave to sin, only God can make us a slave to righteousness. We cannot do this on our own because there is "no one who seeks after God."
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Yes just like your friend. You did not answer the question you misdirect. Is God given men over or born in total inability. If it is Calvinist inability then Romans 1 is illogical to use for reprobation as Romans 9 says man was fitted for destruction before they were born. Which is it and this time answer the questions.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk What don't you understand? The Bible clearly says we all sin. Romans 1 says He kept the hard hearted hearts hard. Not that they were any worse than you and I as far as sin is concerned. Do you agree that God knew us while we were in our womb, and what kind of person we would turn out to be? He has saved the worst of the worst such as King David, and sent "good" people like the rich young ruler to hell. Yes, both were predestined!
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
It cannot both be true that God reprobates men in Romans 9 before they did good or evil and also kept hearts hard in Romans 1. Where does Romans 1 say God kept harts hard and why would He have to keep a heart hard? Were the men in Romans 1 about to be Holy and God had to stop them?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Oh wow. Your a pastor? 1:24 "Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity.. 1:28 "And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong" Were the men in Romans 1 about to be Holy and God had to stop them? No. Wow, you do discern like a secular humanist.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Why would he have to keep a heart hard??? Are you serious??? Oh ok I see the confusion. He didn't have to keep it hard as if they were going to suddenly change but He had to harden just to keep them hellbound. It is talking about the overall nature of the people that aren't saved. Just like Pharaoh (who's heart was hardened by God) , the signs of the unelect are an unrepentant heart and no signs of the fruit of the spirit. That is how we know who amongst us who is truly elect.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Rom 1:24-25 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator,
These were people who exchanged the truth for the lie so God gave them over. It does not say He left them. It says He manifest in them vs.19 and they exchanged the truth. Hardly merely leaving them in their sin.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk You don't think God leaves people in their sin? He does. They are unrepentant slaves to sin. The unelect. SO you have a problem with a God that leaves people in their sins?
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Romans 9 does not say people are unelect it says if Calvinistic soteriology that all are made either for honor or dishonor so double predestination and equal ultimacy which is a posative posative double predestination.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Where does the Bible say God has to keep men hellbound. Eisegesis! What kind of phylosophy is this? Romans 9 says God fitted men for destruction before they did good and bad. And you say He had to harden them after birth?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk No i didn't at all mean to say that God has to keep men hellbound. So you are misunderstanding. You asked me why God has to harden hearts? Why do you think God has to harden hearts? I thought YOU were thinking that God hardens hearts to keep them in their predestined hell.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Thats exactly what you said God has to keep men hellbound. Which is it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk this is what I said "ok I see the confusion. He didn't have to keep it hard as if they were going to suddenly change but He had to harden just to keep them hellbound" I said this thinking you were thinking that. Because you asked me why God would harden a heart that is already wicked. That is NOT what i believe!
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
But you used Romans 1 to prove to me that God did have to harden the hearts of men whos hearts wer already hardened before they born. You are in contradiction. So why did you use Romans 1 then?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk I used Romans 1 to show that God hardens hearts. That's all.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
You said it was proof God leaves men in tier sins. But then you said it proves God holds men in sin and then they have a disposition and then he hardens hearts. Whatever. Why did God have to reprobate the hearts of the already reprobate before they were born?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
You said He does not have to keep a heart hard but then you said He does have to keep a heart hard. Contradiction.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk ahhhh. No you were just misunderstanding the writing. I am not claiming that God hardens hearts to keep them hellbound according to his predestination. ( As if they were begging for mercy and salvation!) Romans 1 indeed talks about the wicked predisposition of men and yes how God still "delivered them over to a worthless mind, to do what is morally wrong."
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Romans 9 does not say they are reprobated for being morally wrong it says they were reprobated before they did good or evil.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
No Romans 1 does not say they had a predisposition it says they exchanged the truth for a lie and God then gives them over.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk And God Can harden hearts, He just can, as the Bible shows.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Why does He have to harden hearts that are already desperately wicked in Calvinism?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk I hate to answer a question with a question but... You really don't know why God hardens hearts?
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
No I dont know why God would have to hearden hearts whos heart are already desperately wicked, in Calvinism anyway. Can you explain?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Romans 1 says they exchanged the truth for a lie, and then God gives them over. What truth exchange in the doctrine of total depravity would they be given over to reprobation for? And why would God have to do this to one who is already been reprobated before they were born and had done good or evil in Romans 9?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk What do you have a problem with again? So you have a problem with God having a predestined elect? You don't agree that some are condemned to hell before they were born?
nikechic619 1 year ago
More Bible less philosophy!
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
Go ahead and make a Bible argument then and lets see what your talking about.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
You said, whats wrong with you?
God has determined it who are you to question God. Whats wrong with you?
There are more than one persons posting here. You did not leave any scripture that God leaves man in thier sin. That is what I asked.
There are many contradictions in you guys comments. Is that easy enough for you to understand?
OK. I did use Romans 9. Romans 9:11 before they did good or evil. 9:23 were fitted for destruction. Where is the leaving men in thier sins in that?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
I dont get you, you go to every single comment and post the same things over and over. What is wrong with you?
Also do you believe that the Bible is true without error and does not contradict itself?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Romans 9 Greek for fitted and makes In Calvinism God does not pass over sinful man but in how Calvinists view Romans 9:22 God fitted man for destruction. Therefore in Calvinism God has reprobated man unconditionally.
The Greek word is Katartizo. The tense is perfect passive participle and means fitted, prepared,
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Also in verse 21, God (makes) vessels for dishonor. The word (make) is poieo. It is Aorist, active, infinitive tense and means the author of , to cause, to prepare, to fashion for..
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
You guys dont agree with John Calvin then.
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Look around at all the hearts the Lord has hardened. (The Bible says God hardens hearts you know)The only thing we can do is deliver the Gospel and let God do the work, if He is going to do it. You seem to not believe that our God is in control and sovereign. Believing in things other than grace for salvation, makes your evangelism about you, and not about God. You probably take credit for the people you see turn to the Lord for salvation. Nope. God already knew he/she would.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk God is soveriegn and in control and forsees and controles the future as well as the present. So yes John Calvin is correct in saying God predestines everything and wills it to happen and it does. But that is not to say God created sin. God willed to create mankind which would rebel. He did not create humans that would not have a free choice to sin. He created people who would choose sin and reject Him. Mankind is incapable of doing good according to God's standards. Depravity.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
Where does the Bible say God pulls the elect out of all the people that are headed for hell? I did not see the verse for that. Romans 9 says God fitted men for hell before they did good or evil. Doesent sound like He left hem in thier sins to me if Romans 9 is a soteriology.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Its called an ANALOGY! And the scriptures describe such a thing. No one is good, all are incapable, God gives grace to the elect, elect go to heaven and non-elect remain under God's wrath and end up in hell. Get it? Its simple. Explain the scriptures I quoted.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk God knew what would happen in the future. But God also planned to use the fall of man for His glory to display who He is with justice as well as mercy. God could have created perfect people who would never sin but he chose not to. He created man that would be capable to freely choose evil, which they only do. God in His sovereign election gives His grace to the unbeliever and changes their heart and they repent and believe by God's power alone not their own "desire to repent."
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
You did not answer the question again. Most all Christians believe God had a plan in the fall. But as a Calvinist, was Adam free to do otherwise, thus making according to your own arguments concerning foreknoledge, God must have been loking down the tunnel of time and synergisticlly God the Creator cooperating with man the creature to see if Adam would fall?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk So you will ignore all scripture I mentioned, and not even bring up any scripture to support your arminian beliefs, and then ask me a silly philosphical question? Obvioously if God did not want Adam to sin he wouldnt have created free thinking humans. This has nothing to do with a middle knowledge position that you are trying to force on me. God forknew, forsaw, and also predestined people. Forknowing to me is forloving, Others God did not forlove and left them to themselves...
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
I did give you an exegesis of 3 verses in Romans 9. Now your being dishonest. Also asked for your proof text for (leaving men in sin) and you gave none.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Free thinking humans?
John Calvin
Everything is controlled by God’s secret purpose, and nothing can happen except by his knowledge and will. (The Institutes of Christian Religion, p.72)
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk You dont read the bible do you? You seem to mistake quoting theology books and church history books with quoting bible verses to make a point....by the way that comment by John Calvin does not at all contradict anything I said. You seem to think God has absolutely no control over His creation and its going wild and He cant do anything about it. You dont think God has a will that is always accomplished? Have you ever read the bible sir?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
You have not Biblically refuted anything. You have not given an answer or proof text to refute my questions at all sir.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Again where is this Bible that God left them for themselves.
1) God leaves men for themselves.
2) There are no free thinking humans.
Blatant contradiction.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
...for destruction. You dont even seem to understand Fatalism. Fatalism is a belief that everything is prdetermined including every time you take a breath or move your hand or drive. Its all been set in place. Calvinism does not teach this. I can do anything I want to do, and we were born under the curse of sin and all humans only want to sin. God did create beings he knew would end up in hell and made them to go to hell. Did he not?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Fatalism Definition
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Fatalism is the thesis that human acts occur by necessity and hence are unfree. Theological fatalism is the thesis that infallible foreknowledge of a human act makes the act necessary and hence unfree. If there is a being who knows infallibly the entire future, then no human act is free.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Even with your armenian middle knowledge type beliefs why then would God make a person if he knew they would rebel and sin anyway if God intensely did not want that person to go to hell? So God has to woo people and impress them to get saved? What a weak God.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Is William Lane Craig also not farmiliar with his Bible since he holds to middle knowledge?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk He also holds to evlotuion and other false doctrines and he goes to Biola where I used to go which does not say much for his theological beliefs. He may know his way around the bible but he doesnt understand it or isnt being honest. James White the man you hate knows his bible far better. Also it doesnt matter if Craig knows his bible because he is not you. You obviously dont know yours since you appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Absurd comment as you refer to James White.
Is there a time when you are going to address my scripture references and questions or are you going to waist time dodging them? As we can conclude that since you have no exegesis for Romans 9 that you must concede. You must have read Potters Freedom?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk What are you talking about? I have a lot of Scripture I mentioned in the comments earlier you never addressed and now you are telling me I am not addressing your scripture? Sorry dude your video is so long and boring I dont have time to sift through it. What is the exegesis for Romans 9 then?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA In Calvinism God cannot have merely passed over sinful man in how Calvinists view Romans as soteriological election. Romans 9:22 says God fitted man for destruction. Therefore in Calvinism God has reprobated man unconditionally.
The Greek word is Katartizo. The tense is perfect passive participle and means fitted, prepared.
The passive does not mean God acted passively, the passive voice denotes the merely the recipient of the action.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Also in verse 21, God (makes) vessels for dishonor. The word (make) is poieo. It is Aorist, active, infinitive tense and means the author of , to cause, to prepare, to fashion for..
So if Romans 9 is soteriological then God in Calvinism has reprobated man unconditionally as in verse 11 they were fated for reprobation before they did good or evil thus there is no passing over man or leaving man in their sin but a fated or fitted unconditional and unmerited reprobation.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
So where is your proof text for your claim that God passes oever sinful man and give a response for the Romans 9 comments.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
So you think you are dealing with me do you. You are only good at avoiding my comments and questions. Please answer where is the prooftext or any exegesis that God leaves men in thier sin?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Please acknowledge Scripture....do you believe Scripture is true?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Yes THATS WHY i ASKED FOR YOUR PROOFTEXTS AND SHOWED YOU THAT FROM ROMANS 9 MEN IN CALVINSM ARE FITTED IRRESISABLY AND UNCONDITIONALY FOR REPROBATION. NOT LEFT IN THIER SINS. THAT IS EISEGESIS
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
Oh Jesus was not strong enough to save those who went to hell but he tried? Your God is weak....my God is powerful enough to save even the worst sinners like Paul or King Mannessah in the Bible who repented and believed. God converted Paul himself on the road to demascus. Calvinisn is not fatalism because man can do whatever he wants, but all he wants is sin but God changed the heart for His elect. Your belief is works.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
Dude you dont even get calvinism! Man does what he most greatly desires. Man's greatest desire is to sin and reject God. There is no way they can be saved or even choose to follow God. Read romans 9. The bible says it. Jeremiah says "The heart is exceedingly wicked." Genesis says "Mans thoughts in all his days are nothing but evil since his youth" in chapter 3. It takes God to change a heart and give grace. You cannot do it. This is works salvtion you promote. And what do you say to guys in hell
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Oh I get Calvinism. Calvinism makes God the author and finisher of evil and man has not even sinned freely but caused by God to sin. This video is about Romans 9 and it teaches if Calvinistic that man sins by Gods cause even before they did good or evil.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Are you kidding me? Calvinism does not teach God created evil. That is a straw man argument. No calvinist believes that! Man has free will, but his free will is to sin. God did not command people to sin, but people sin on their own. Only God brings them out of destruction through His grace. You seem to teach that man has to be good enough somehow or smart enough to choose God or else God will rejct them. Its works! And if God took the entire worlds sins why do people go to hell?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Of course God in Calvinism created evil. Are you sure your not Arminian?
John Calvin comment on Adam "God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it."
-John Calvin (Institutes of the Christian Religion)
(Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 7)
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk John Calvin is talking about Romans 1:26 where "God delivered man to his own degrading passions" and verse 32 says those who do such things deserve to die and the people practicing them know full well God's just sentence. God delivers people to destruction in such ways. This is not fatalism, its just man's perverse nature.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Man is free to only sin. This is the most common Calvinist contradiction I hear. Man is never free if he can ONLY do one thing. This is dialetheism. This is fatalism.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk This is not at all fatalism. God forsaw sin but did not create it. If he did arrange the fall of man, it was that God gave man up to his own sin and released them to their ruin. This isnt God creating sin. And Calvinism does not teach that man CAN ONLY sin because this is obviously straw man argument. Man can do good deeds sometimes, but without God his intention to do them has nothing to do with God but for his own ideas and wants.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk If a man helps the poor withou acknowledging God then who is he doing it for? Himself! Selfishness and pride is what sinners live for. Man was created to have a mind for God. In this sense man onyl does evil all the time. Why does Gen. 8:21 say that mans inclination is evil from his youth? Gen 6:5 says that the scheme of every man's mind is thinking nothing but evil all the time? Are these Scriptures lying or false? Do you deny these scripture?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Start usin Scripture instead of man made phislophical ideas to back up your theological points. Job 36:13-15 says, "those who have a godless heart harbor anger; even when God binds them, they do not cry for help." It goes on to say that their lives end up among male cult prostitutes and Go uses affliction to rescue his elect and instructs them by means of their torment. So in this way God does arrange for destruction when people willfully are unrepentent.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Ecclesiastes 9:3 says "The hearts of people are full of evil, and madness is in their hears while they live---after that they go to the dead."
Romans 3:10 says "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. 12All have turned away, together they have become useless; there is no one who does good not even one."
The Bible says NO ONE DOES GOOD OR EVEN SEEKS AFTER GOD. Can you explain this? Does the bible have error now?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk As it is written: "There is no one righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seek after God. They all have turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." It's both in the OT and NT in my Bible, how about yours?
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619 Yep Psalm 14:1-3 Psalm 53:1-3 too, aaannnnd Ecclesiastes 7:20 which says, "There is certainly no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@nikechic619
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@nikechic6 19
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk try quoting the Bible and not a theology book....
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
By the way the last time I was in Biolas Library (wich was not that long ago) there were 99% Theology books and 1 percent Bibles. Did they not give you Theology books when you went there?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Man can only do what his greatest desire is. Even if there is a slight chance he wants to do something good and knows better to follow God, he wont. He will sin because sin is his greatest desire. Man free will in what he wants to do. Like who he wants to marry where he wants to live if he wants to go to college or not. If he wants to commit a sin or not. But mankind always sins and only by God's grace in election can anyone be saved. They have been predestined before creation. Bible
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
The question concerns those for whom Christ died.Was He trying to save everybody worldwide?Was He trying to make the entire world His Bride?
Does man’s unbelief keep the Savior’s hands tied?Biblically, each of these must be denied .It’s true, Jesus gave up His life for His Bride. But His Bride is the elect, to whom His death is applied.If on judgment day, you see that you can’t hide
And because of your sin, God’s wrath on you abides And hell is the place you eternally reside.
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619 That means your wrath from God hasn’t been satisfied But we believe His mission was accomplished when He died.But how the cross relates to those in hell?Well, they be saying:Lord knows He tried
nikechic619 1 year ago
@nikechic619
No those in hell will be there in Calvinism because God fitted them for destruction before they did good or evil just because He felt like it and to bring Himself pleasure. So they will not even be in hell for thier sins because they were fitted before they ever did good or evil.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk No this is man made philosophy. So far I showed scripture you need to explain to me. So please do it instead of these immature arguments. God does not put sin in man, they are already sinners. Calvinism teaches that all men are already headed to hell yet God pulls the elect out by His grace. People in a dark pit by their own error yet God pulls some out.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
I have no problem with the teaching of original sin. My comment is abot the fall to you guys. Are you guys saying that Adam was synergistically free and God the Creator had to look down the tunnel of time to learn what the creature Adam would do and allow it?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MaharlikaAWA
Where does the Bible say God pulls the elect out of all the people that are headed for hell? I did not see the verse for that. Romans 9 says God fitted men for hell before they did good or evil. Doesent sound like He left hem in thier sins to me if Romans 9 is a soteriology.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@MahharlikaAWA
First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@GBFNorwalk Ask, was the Bible written for the elect or for the unrepentant unbeliever to ridicule and scrutinize? The Bible was written for the elect. Therefore in Revelation 3: 10-11 he tells His elect He will keep them "save them" from the hour of trial. The hour of trial is tribulation yes, but couldn't it also imply those who are not saved and are destined for hell? We deserve hell as the Bible says because we cannot do good. But by the grace of God he changes our hearts...
nikechic619 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
... and we are saved. It is not anything we do, but what He has already done.
nikechic619 1 year ago
That we must do something to give the cross its power
That means, at the end of the day, the glory’s ours
That man-centered thinking is not recommended
The cross will save all for whom it was intended
Because for the elect, God’s wrath was satisfied
But still, when it comes to those in hell
Well, they be saying:
Lord knows He tried
nikechic619 1 year ago
If saving everybody was why Christ came in history
With so many in hell, we’d have to say He failed miserably
So many think He only came to make it possible
Let’s follow this solution to a conclusion that’s logical
What about those who were already in the grave?
The Old Testament wicked- condemned as depraved
Did He die for them? C’mon, behave
But worst of all, you’re saying the cross by itself doesn’t save
nikechic619 1 year ago
Did Jesus try to make the entire world his bride?
nikechic619 1 year ago
The only thing I have to say is you need to Get more excited about what you are doing and get rid of the monotone voice and read what you need to read before you post and then use those resources to back up what you have to say. We have a Bible and can look things up we just want to hear your thoughts
wolfmtns 1 year ago
Man is condemned because of a REJECTION of Christ (John 3:18)
Calvenism's view or God's will being irresistable is refuted by 2 Pet 3:9 and Rev 22:17 and in Ezek 3:17-21, chapter 33
Who was Calvin? Can HE be trusted in developing a Christian doctrine?
James 3:10-12 and Matthew 12:33 tell us that we know the type of tree by its fruit.
Titus 1:9 tells us to convince those in error by use of sound doctrine.
Calvin planned and had murdered Michael Severus, and probably more!
Look it up!
buzzbbird 1 year ago
as always, amazing!
luv6pup 1 year ago
Why do you provide the same answer to both video's when one is always irrelevant. People actually look to you as a 'Pastor'? Are they all mentally challenged or strapped in a gurney? You're absolutely nuts!
Why don't you answer each question with an individually dedicated response instead of spaming generic answers that make no sense?
I'm exceedingly worried about whatever cockamamie congregation gathers under your frightfully egregious illogical sophist mind.
I'm going to pay a visit.
RefutingSkellyism 1 year ago
@RefutingSkellyism
Yes I blocked RefutingSkellyism. He is not demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit. Please go through the comments and you will see an irrational, irate person who ultimately threatens to visit our outreach fellowship to divide it. He uses an anonymous account to hide behind and has not proven anything. Please read through the comments yourselves and see what type of persons I deal with on a regular basis. Also you will see his faulty arguments. You decide for yourselves.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
This sap is confused about the meaning of the word 'cause', then furthers his fallacious comprehension as a dogma of Calvinists.
For instance, did God not know Adam would sin? Could Adam sin without God knowing He would? The author of this video refuses to answer this question, because it repudiates every slander he attempts to levy upon Calvinists.
Why was Christ slain before the foundation of the world? Rev.13:8
If then God knew, He allowed, & therefore caused but not so as coerced.
RefutingSkellyism 1 year ago
@RefutingSkellyism
If I were a sophist you would have to prove my logic to be in contradiction. But you have not, yet I have already proven you to be in contradiction on my video Calvinism Unconditional Reprobation. I think you are being convicted of your sin of blaming God for your evil. Are you now going to spam my videos? I already proved you wrong and you quit the debate. I asked you to provide any Calvinist Theologian that holds to (in Gods knowledge he allows sin). That is Arminian.
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
@RefutingSkellyism
There are some single predestination Calvinsts that hold to this but they are in contradicton like you. Could Adam have done otherwise?
GBFNorwalk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GBFNorwalk There is no point is proving what alleged Calvinists believe or what you think they say or mean. Calvinism, the TULIP, the 5 Sola's are all clearly proven by the Bible. You problem is you don't believe the Bible. Your problem is the Bible. You're an easily refuted liar and heretic. Bring it on baby, I'll crush you on every point as I have already done. Do you enjoy getting beaten over and over again?
RefutingSkellyism 1 year ago
@GBF "If I were a sophist you would have to prove my logic to be in contradiction. " I did, you said secondary causes are primary causes. This same erroneous logic of yours, applies to God allowing something is also His primary cause. It's the same logic you impose on what you think Calvinists say. Yet it applies more cogently to your idiocy. Thus I have proven you to contradict yourself and have been demonstrated a sophist.