Immanuel Wallerstein on the end of Capitalism

[TheDIGITRONICA]

good!



[jradetzky]

both this guy and Slavoj Zizek make a lot of sense

[etzel33]

downside: the world will look like Starship Troopers. Remember kids, Service Guarantees Citizenship!

[AGOODAMERICAN]

The time to argue if capitalism is moreal or not is over. The system is dying and the new discussion is what will replace it. This is the most pivotal and dangerous time in the evolution of humanity because the fall of capitalism and the monetary system will affect every single one of us. Our decisions and actons during this transition will shape humanity's future. We must be ready to GUIDE and SUPPORT our brothers and sisters as we fight for the survival of our rave and our planet.

[redzisan]

@AGOODAMERICAN Good talk. I just came across social economy. That can be something worthwile if just people could realize...

[AGOODAMERICAN]

@redzisan Whatever economic system we use, it must be based on the efficient management of resources, development of technology and apreaciation of huma life. The system must allow for people to pursuit their potential and to be able to grow. Educatiom must also be a priority because it is though education that we can teach people the necessary skills to help society to thrive. Without education, a society becomes stagnant as it doesnt have the intelectual resources to solve its problems.

[ComradeFwalkerstein]

ALL HAIL WALKERSTEIN!



[orinocointf2]

i feel out of depth on this video. how did i end up here from my usual shallow crap that i watch? someone please send me back.

[AnaLimaLuiza]

@orinocointf2 Could you please forward it to me?

[orinocointf2]

@AnaLimaLuiza cant post links for some reason. just type in lol internet, thats pretty shallow meaningless stuff. the first comment is "I like trains"

[NegroDeSangue]

The problem with capitalism today is that it is too centralized and places dependency on large complex organizations. When these fail, and they will, the outcome is catastrophic. This explains a great deal. I don't think capitalism is going away however; I do think that most systems grow from the bottom up. I am hoping for a more decentralized type of capitalism where dependency is less an issue and the state of welfare can be significantly diminished.

[amyntazoe]

Thxs so much for posting this! His theory about capitalism going bust 30 ys ago is coming to realization to more and more people. I am 1 of the few that also agrees that it is ending. Hopefully the next system will operate positively but first, we need to end the reign of the ruling elite. People neeed to be aware of the propaganda the corporate media is vomiting up. A small government (a thin managerial elite) is a bad, bad idea.

[burmanhands]

An interesting discussion. Whats in a name? Capitalism or whatever.

Technology is creating a new world as barriers to new ideas fall.

New complexities arise as world populations grow. Humanity is an innovative self conscious system evolved over a million years or so. If this change happens in 40 years - that's half a lifetime, so its just the same evolving show that goes on. Anyway politics and law are always playing catch up to reality - its a messy business just like our own lives.

[musicalidea]

Wallerstein is incorrect. The viability of Capitalism has never rested on popular consent or mutual betterment: even if 50% of the world's pop. died from easily preventable starvation while the .05% ruled like kings, the major forms of Capitalism would continue, w/ enough control of force. Sometimes, on a national level, public assent is necessary - but this can be easily engineered w/ enough control over info. Capitalism is actually strengthening as technology bolsters high tech police states.

[cosmicviewer477]

@musicalidea You are absolutely right. The kind of corporatized capitalism that is being practiced in most modern Western countries -- and the U.S. in particular -- is not healthy. I believe in a more regional sort of capitalism because this form dominated by multi-national corporations is not sustainable, and thus not healthy.

[440wedge]

Another of the insane leftist /socialist crackpots that drones on and on without actually saying anything.Chomsky is the same way. Capitalism is not only the most moral system devised, it's the most successful. All the silly rhetoric of the left doesn't change the fact people work for their own benefit,not the benefit of society. But you must provide something of value to your fellow man to benefit yourself. Therefore all benefit. That's the morality of Capitalism.

[cosmicviewer477]

@440wedge The challenge with your train of thought is that who decides what's valuable? Is it a corporation who has millions of dollars to manipulate us, or is it we ourselves? I do value what you are saying, but what Wallerstein is suggesting is our "current" form of Capitalism is changing into something else. He is not making a moral judgment about Capitalism, per se.

[440wedge]

@cosmicviewer477 Thank you for the polite response to my admittedly acidic comments.

[musicalidea]

@440wedge Please give examples of how Chomsky drones on and on without actually saying anything. Please demonstrate that the evils commonly ascribed to Captialism as a system are somehow moral. Please show how Capitalism has anything to do with working for one's own benefit as opposed to working for the benefit of a deed holder, shareholder or copyright holder. Please explain how other economic systems do not far exceed the ability of Capitalism to enable people to work for themselves.

[PaterTenebrarum1]

@440wedge right on

[AnaLimaLuiza]

@440wedge This man has nothing to do with left or Chomsky. I don't like Chomsky either but what this man says makes no sense.

Chomsky either in certain occasions but at least he is a good linguistic.

I believe you are leading a great life and very happy with the status quo.

Man! The vast majority in the world is not.

Under capitalism or socialism.

Claiming that capitalism is the most moral system sounds strange if we consider what is happening...lol

Try Foucault or other thinkers.

[MichaelParentiOrg]

Thanks for sharing! added to my playlist Much appreciated

Kind Regards, MP friends

"Here at home and throughout the world people are fighting back against the forces of wealth, privilege and militarism — some because they have no choice, others because they would choose no other course but the one that leads to peace and justice." — Michael Parenti

[bapyou]

The end of Capitalism? Can't come fast enough for me.

[auxyray]

@bapyou Don't say that. The system that follows might be worse.

[omfg4000]

@bapyou Won't come fast. And it if it does it will be bloody.

I mean you see these paradoxial decissions today. For example high unemployement and governments wanting to put pensioners (wrong spelling sorry) into work because they can't pay for them. This despite economic growth in general. But thing is it can be sustained almost indefinetly I think with enormous taxes - ever increasing as wealth is being centered.

[aksmar18]

I am confused...he's right!

[Elinitsam]

When people lose confidence in bonus paper money, that is the day we get our country and government back to work for the people (us)! I am already trading in silver coinage to buy goods. Are you? I reject the Federal Reserve Banking System!

[Elinitsam]

Only in a moral society that values freedom can capitalism work. The problem is people running and ruling America are too controlling, greedy, selfish and don't value freedom anymore. America needs a change in its value system in order to improve socially and economically.

[qpae123]

@Elinitsam Capitalism works where people are not corupted, or at least not all corupted, otherwise is just dictatorship of the corupt majority over the others.

[ahmetuzun2012]

this is coming after capitalistic world ::: equalistic united humanity order , all world going to unite as one world place, all countries going to be destroyed as one. all wealth of the world going to be divided and distributed equally to all humans. every thing going to be integratingly planned. main focus of humans going to be on inside awaekening, spiritual enligtenment, universal conciousness... materialistic competitions going to finish...

[pepintheshort100]

Another smart-ass, eh?

This is not the end of capitalism. Because what the Americans have today is NOT capitalism. It is a soft form of a fascism.

Fascismo, capisci????

[demodeprd]

2040|The shelter

A short film based on the theory of Immanuel Wallerstein.

You can watch it in our channel demodeprd at youtube.

[FAKEPAIN]

Its so easy to see that capitalism can never work, cuz it doesnt work for the benefit of all.. break the integrity of the laws of the universe and you will break yourself. everything is connected, creating hirarchy will not be supported by life, nature, god, law, balance, creation etc etc. so it must collapse. yet another lesson we could have so easily learned had we only looked at nature a bit more

[johnTconover]

@FAKEPAIN Capitalism was always doomed to failure because the people that produce economic value sell there labor below the price that the goods and services they produce are sold (profit)... In other words, every workers combined income is not enough to pay for the goods and services they produced! Karl Marx explained this many moons ago... Oops, did i say Marx? I hope the thought police don't read this comment... Ah well, we're all screwed anyway... Best of luck buddy ;-)

[FAKEPAIN]

@johnTconover thats exactly it yeah.. how can it be that people dont understand this? greed, selfishnes and a lot of propaganda i guess. well thanks buddy, best of luck to you too. lets see what comes after :)

[saintveil]

Spirits incarnate, living as humans in our midst; moving openly and freely, yet undetected by the masses, or even their hosts. Like the spasms of a decapitated body, the fact of the matter, thats precisely what it is; if you really think about it. Their illusions are many, which overtake the sleepwalking masses. Now know that they do take flesh and walk among men, to mold a new species. Die young and stay pretty. It's just a message for the stoke: SaintVeil

[dannelito92]

The only sustainable solution for this world: /watch?v=wRAHvtPkla0

[IAndTheFatherAreOne]

In 1962-1963, the USA goverment was already spending money on taxes to be collected 40 years from 1962. The Soviet Union (Communism ) was broken when John Paul II & Ronald Reagen intervened Poland. Capitalism is broken because of GREED; governments & people spending beyond their means. The only way to solve the world economy is to be bailed out by the Vatican (Roman Catholicism ) who own the GOLD of the world. Then the world and America will prosper again.

[BaseOfLiterature]

I think the future has two choices - misery and economic deprivation for everyone (hurray, we'll all be equal at last) or misery and economic deprivation for 99.9 per cent of people and the rest have lifestyles so luxurious in comparison that they reside in high-tech strongholds just to keep the people outside from killing them. Equality doesn't mean anyone is happy, it means everyone is equal. The alternative is someone having his foot eternally stood on a very unhappy man's face

[zobcity01]

so whats the solution?

stop using paper monies and go to precious metal coins again? or electronic credits? what else is there?

[ankaviva]

The capitalists are very well preparing themselves for the doom, they are very aware of the social unrest coming, hence the security preparations. it's not about "islamists" (well none of them ever killed any powerful capitalist or ruler, as far as i know), its about the capitalists' fear of revolution.

[inspirediam]

Money is an illusion. The Federal Reserve does not even have the gold to back the PAPER it prints. This is a system to keep people enslaved.

[jisasyuholem]

Either that or fostering economic growth (according to the way they measure the economy) and maintaining their hegemony at the expense of everybody else

[Villagejonesy]

I always have a problem with all this talk about "Capitalism" as if it were a system of government. It's not. It's a very natural phenomenon that proceeds from the creation of money.

You have to have money, of course. But once you do, you'll have imbalances. The Bolsheviks' attempts to micromanage "profiteering" led to the Scissors Crisis, the most ridiculous Keystone Kops episode until Mao's backyard iron smelters in the Great Leap Forward. Deregulation or not, with money comes imbalance.

[Villagejonesy]

To expand: I think this fallacy issues from the fact that the communists distorted the very natural tendencies to capitalize, with their price-fixing and resource allocation. Since the "capitalist" bourgeois democratic governments were ranged against the communists, it's assumed that the capitalists had a positive policy program, alternative to the communists. In fact, the western democracies just had a negative program, the absence of a policy: they simply avoided distorting the market as much.

[rudeshonen]

@Villagejonesy

You might want to read some of Wallerstein's work or any historical treatment of colonialism or industrializing England...Capitalist market practice was imposed by fiat, and often had to be implemented by vicious state repression (enclosures act, anyone?)...

It was put in place by merchant elites over the objections of peasant or craftsmen populations that saw such a way of organizing society as UN-natural....

[Villagejonesy]

Thanks rudeshonen, appreciate the reply. I did read The Essential Wallerstein. I agree that the big merchants and industrialists (or the corporation heads today) have steered government policies, and the enclosure movement was particularly grotesque.

[Villagejonesy]

I suppose that what you've identified there, in response to my saying capitalists "avoided distorting the market AS MUCH" (I do want to stress that I didn't say "not at all!") are the ways that the big bourgeois did distort the market.

This identifies another problem: since capitalism is a natural development, on a private scale, once you introduce money, it also ensures the use of bribery, to ensure monopoly, and other market-distorting tendencies. The free market thus kills its own freedom.

[Villagejonesy]

("Bribery," better known as "campaign contributions," of course)

[jisasyuholem]

Money and capitalism don't necessarily come together, money first appeared thousands years before capitalism

[Villagejonesy]

Well "Capitalism" as in the Big Bourgeois ruling our society, and forming an exploiting and ruling class of the working class, came in after the American and French revolutions. But "capitalism" with a small c, as in one class of people exploiting another and maximizing their own profits at the expense of another class of people, was a natural outgrowth of the invention of money and the diversification of types of work. Once you invent money, you invent people trying to get more of it, w/o work.

[blaziermissy]

Capitalism fit well for hundreds of years, but it's stagnating "progress" at this point. Capitalism is de-coupled from science and the scientific method. Economics isn't a true science, for that matter. It's not in alignment with the finite amount of resources for sustainability on this earth. Capitalism promotes mass consumption without any regard to the amount of resources or the most efficient resource used, and promotes growth, even if the growth doesn't produce anything tangible.

[Mangina9000]

@blaziermissy Actually capitalism has been an effective way of moving off of resources and becoming more efficient according to market forces. What has happened in the United States is that we have returns to a monopoly system entrenched in political and capitalism that cannot be easily severed. This is why Norway can make their residents rich from oil while transitioning naturally to alternative energy sources, and how Germany can become the biggest solar developer while expanding coal...

[Mangina9000]

@blaziermissy ... If we can stop energy and resource cartels from controlling the market, resources can be used more efficiently, small businesses and independent forces can rise again to drive growth, with the assistance of strong regulatory bodies and investments from the government (which is SUPPOSED to represent the interests of the people).

[Navium]

@Mangina9000

but it doesn't change reality that ALL resources on earth are FINITE..its not the question if..its the question when we will run out.

The word sustainability in context with a multi billion global corporation is absurd..its just a marketing tool.

Global increase in population and the obsession of businesses to streamline a company and maximise the profit...who will employ all the people in the future? The majority will rely on government money or a revolution....

[NobodyYou1]

Mr. Wallerstein said in another interview that we have a financial bubble blown up for the last 30 years. What happened in the 70`s? I guess the so called "core" of Capitalism is rotten because the last industrial revolution meaning microelectronics, robotics and so fourth did boost the profits for a short period of time but also caused mass-unemployment because the factories are now runned by machines and not by real people... computers and robots cant buy stuff! But people had credit cards.

[aiyic]

...and those credit-cards are maxed-out now.

[AzoreanProud]

Resource Based Economy

What seems the better solution.

[MarquisdeBarrabas]

I wish he would get down to specifics.

When he says capitalism has been changing for 40 years, what happened 40 years ago that jump started that change?

[DesteniProductions]

Greed and technological advancement linked to human need to succed at all costs at a personal level -- study all these points and look at equality and an equal money system to counteract an emerging disaster

[MarquisdeBarrabas]

Thank you, Mr. Wallerstein.

[DarrylWThomas]

The 1970's. The first "Oil Shortage."

[MarquisdeBarrabas]

That's what I assumed as well, but the first oil shock began in 1973, and that was less than 40 years ago.

Still, assuming our assumption is right, that that is what Wallerstein was alluding to, how did the oil shock jump start the transformation of capitalism?

[DarrylWThomas]

By engineering a "crisis" - intentional scarcity - which manipulated the "invisible hand" of commerce. Schoolbook Capitalism was over. Greed was Good and companies took the place of countries.

This is even documented in the media with the famous rant by the Ned Beatty character in the movie Network, which came out in the mid-70s I believe.

[dailyshowjan7]

i think it's something to do with the failure of the 60s movement and how everyone became disillusioned with the promises of modernity. so now it's like "we're done with capitalism, what other system can bring us the liberty and equality that we thought capitalism would bring?"

[over30kings]

I have been interested in Wallerstein for the last year or so, I agree that the world system is changing and expect quite a bit of chaos over the next 6 months to 50 years, depending on when a new equilibrium is reached.

[thane17]

I can't figure this guy out. At times he is blaming government intervention for the poor economy but then he says we have a failure of capitolism. What we've actually had is a VERY regulated capitolism at best, and the degree to which it has been regulated is reflected in its failures.

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

Actually broski, deregulation is the reason Capitalism is getting it's shit jumped right now. Capitalism isn't going to die out. Socialism doesn't work, Communism doesn't work, and Capitalism doesn't work. There has to be a balanced mix. The balance in the US has given way to much power to the private sector (Captialism) , i.e. Corporations...

Regulation is not what caused the current problems.

[thane17]

study Austrain economics to better understand economics and how government interference has brought about the problems we have today.

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

Oh give me a fucking break! Austrian Economics is a fucking Right-Wing joke!

If Austrian Ecnomics are so fucking great, then why did Bush and Clinton's deregulation policies end up fucking our economy in the ass!?

Removal of Glass-Steagall

&

15:1 to 40:1 Derivatives

Those two alone are enough to blow the economy up. There were many other regulations that had been systematically lifted since the Reagan era.

Lay off the Ron Paul and Peter Schiff rethoric. It's unhealthy....

[thane17]

Our problem is caused by cheap money. Start looking to the fed for an answer.

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

Yeah, yeah. The Fed is the source of all evil. I've heard all that garb. A lot of problems are caused by the Fed, sure, but the problems we face now are hardly reminicent of Fed policies.

Obviously the artificially low interest rates helped lead to the crash, but they pale in comparison to the deregulation that has been going on since the beginning of the end. (1980)

Even the deregulation of energy companies has caused your light bill to triple over the last 7 years.

Austrian = Fail

[thane17]

Youtube Milton Friedman Greed

But I suspect we will never agree.

IFloridaMotocrossl=FAIL

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

Friedman = Fail

I've already heard about him, Keynes, Chomski, Hitler, Obama, McCain, etc, etc.

That whole social science behind the Free Market regulating itself is garbage. It's flawed in such a common sense way, I can't understand how people are still on that bandwagon....

I'm telling you man, deregulation is not the answer.

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

Btw, I watched that video. I think you got the implication that I'm not in favor of Capitalism or something. I am in favor of Capitalism, I just think some resources should be socialized, and some Free Enterprise should be regulated. That's all.

Also, Friedman kinda just deflected the questions by saying, "Well, these systems are an extreme, so we should embrace this extreme."

~ (Anarcho-Capitalism)

I'm pretty central on economics, I'm just to the left of most Americans.

[niriafanorev]

Thank you, IFloridaMotocross. Someone finally [openly] lifts the curtain on the bullshit Austrian economics represents. It has virtually no representation in academia apart from a few think-tanks. Even the Cato Institute rejects it.

[Leveer13]

I have studied it. I used to be a delegate in the Libertarian party. If we absolutely de-regulated everything right now you would have fascism to the highest bidder. (We are already almost there with the way corporations own the government).

[thane17]

What do you propose?

I suspect this country will split before facism takes over...I don't see the statists budging and I think there are enough freedom loving people on the right who will not accept fascism.

I think its worth the risk to deregulate everything, let panic ensue, and then set up a free and limited gov. system, if others don't want to participate then so be it, they can have california and new england.

Too risky?

[Leveer13]

I propose a switch to a Resource Based Economy. Thevenusprojectdotcom

[robertrstevens]

Godless Communism: RIP 1989

Godfull Capitalism:  RIP 2009

[NewTet]

Most excelent stuff! I could sit and listen to that old, wise man talk all day.

[moleverde]

The interview took place in April of 2009 in San Francisco, California.

[ElFrankus]

I´m watching right now "The Boiler Room". Is that world coming to an end... or is it already ended?

[daedalus71]

It would be nice for that date to have been in the video. The opening text makes it seem as if the interview took place in 1980, which was pretty confusing.

[tlonuk]

I am confused...

when did the interview take place?

[j0hnwi11iams]

I think the problem with capitalism is that it is held as a complete system theory rather than a mechanism within a larger system theory. A functional society has to incorporate aspects of both socialism and capitalism, and possible as yet unnamed mechanisms that perform more in conformance with individual and social expectations. Even Communist China sees the wisdom of some degree of privatization.

[radiohogan]

What Mr Wallerstein is describing seems to be what Emile Durkheim called "anomie." Mr W said people are "unsure." Durkheim wrote about folks losing faith in their societies values, customs, economy & folkways. It is a time when the old society has ended and the new society has yet to be developed.

[zsylvana]

1)Yes a very interesting point you make Mike.I know Mr Wallerstein wrote that the Durkheiman dysfuntional anomie,now is in a stage to develop in world-scale volyme.His point that the so called "New Globalisation",the Neo-Liberal Myth,infact is at it´s ending and that it beggined in large scale in about 1600 century,with Columbus.The blind drift to Accumulate money as the only motor in World-Economy seem to reach a peak in about 20-50 year.He mention some natural limitations thats interesting.

[zsylvana]

2)Mr Wallerstein mention some factors that makes it harder to reach a the Capitalist "equlibrium" as times goes on.A.)Harder to find cheap labor in world-scale as time go on.Soon it´s no place to go to find such.Half poulation lives in cities to day and it no low costs peasants to employ as before,and workers all over world no knows what people earns at similar jobs and they organise.B)Nature have soon set up a limit for large scale profite.States no longer want pay for Industrial polutions.

[zsylvana]

2)In short as i understand Mr I.W among many other reasons in future A.)reduced access to cheap laborer harder to find peripheries to intergrate and find such in World as whole B.)The organic decay and eviromental limits and harder fore companies to externalise their cost to public extent.C)The increasing inequality between North and South leading to large immigration that makes unpredictebal conseucenses for how world develop.

[masboracho]

Wallerstein's ideas have always focused less on people losing faith in their particular social system than on the inherent problems within the system itself. The finite availibility of resources, both human and financial, as well as a finite potential for exploitation leads to bifurcation within a system as a society struggles to create a viable future. The uncertainty has to do with a comprehensive systemic uncertainty rather than an uncertainty in one's cultural customs, folkways, etc.

[prepirate]

@radiohogan Anomie, as described by Durkheim, is the crisis state in which an individual has insufficient means to achieve the cultural norms established; the crisis state is one of 'normlessness'. What Wallerstein is presenting here is a bit different, he's not claiming that our means to norms are insufficient, but rather that the system which upholds the norms are in flux

.

[boumar19721972]

@radiohogan The end of "capitalism" and the start of "A Resource Based Economy".

[zsylvana]

Thank you for the video with Wallerstein.

A living legend.Maybee we will se more of him?I hope so.All the best to you

[whedonfreak976]

@zsylvana i want to see more of him as well, he is one of the smartest people i have ever seen or heard i should say