Added: 2 years ago
From: theowarner
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  • Excellent post. Thank you.

  • Being a christian does NOT mean you must be calm at all times and handle things in the manner the enemy would find pleasing. Jesus himself became angry and very aggressive in more than one occasion, especially when people turned his Follower's David and Sol''s temple of Yahweh into a Market place. I'm sorry the Christians here on youtube are a little extreme but it is because Atheists have a tendency to mock us and our belief before we get to reply. we may judge righteously but not selfishly

  • @remieres

    Jesus didn't get out of control angry at the temple. You should ready your Bible more carefully.

    Also, I'm not sure why this is a relevant comment here. I agree that atheists tend to mock Christians, as you put it. But, frankly, those Christians who deserve ridicule are not mistreated when the receive it.

  • @theowarner

    lol putting words in my mouth to win your argument I see. I didn't say OUT OF CONTROLL so you should go back and read what your replying to. " Jesus himself became angry and very aggressive in more than one occasion" this is relevant to the video because you address the fact this issue about us the Theists/christians doing such conduct when you've dealt with us.

  • @remieres

    I disagree with your reading of Scripture. But, setting that aside, the fact that many Christians have treated me and others poorly is not commented upon by Jesus' actions.

  • @theowarner

    Disagree all you wan't you won't know squat outside of literature till your born again and baptized in the holy-spirit. but wait what am I saying your an atheist and think you have all the answers or you wouldn't be telling me I'm likely wrong about how Jesus called people names and shouted at them while he broke cages and stands and let the animals free while using cables he grabbed up as a whip. NOOO you think he was being nice and peaceful like Buddha.

  • @remieres

    First of all, I am not an atheist.

    Second of all, some Christians have been unkind to me here on YouTube. That is a fact. Please understand that I am not basing the truth of this statement on anything other than my experience and not evaluating it in light of anyone's religion or the life of Jesus. I don't know why you keep mentioning the Cleansing of the Temple.

  • @theowarner That's very cool. I understand now that you are not addressing all christians. but rather the majority who have bad communication skills when handling a debate or criticism from the atheistic or other questioning groups. I will Acknowledge that you have a very good point there which I wish I could address but I don't know the people who've faught you and thrown vulgarities at you where Jesus never would. So you have my sympathies.

    hoping you're doing well. Laterz.

  • @remieres Those who speak do not know, Those who know do not speak- Lao Tzu

  • "perdition bound"......I like it. :)

  • good stuff

  • Joke's on Philos. Everyone is in a box. Theists have just painted god all over the its walls, which is why they see him everywhere. And they think the picture is a view of the outside.

    My point: if it appears ubiquitous then it's probably all happening in your head.

  • 2:20 You don;t understand the motivation that makes a sincere believer care.

    The mathematics you talk about is invalid. I think they sincerely care. Its not about credit.

    Now I don;t believe but if you want honest dialog, you need to understand what motivates those you are conversing with.

  • fagballs lol

  • OMG philos71 is right, i put his god in a little box he works in ITS CALLED THE BIBLE, THE SOLE REASON IM NOT A CHRISTAN (however its not the reason i dont belive in god).

  • I have to agree with philos, only on the part that, while you do have a talent for english, you tend to over do it a bit. Some of your sentances are almost impenetrable in the verbosity, and the average reader/listener would have some trouble just knowing what you are saying, and that acts as a barrier to overall understanding of your thoughts. I realize this dialogue may be completely fluid to you, but you should cater to your audience who, overall, probably has but an 8th grade reading level

  • I couldn't disagree more!

  • about your audience's intelligence or your choice of language?

    Ill admit, your audience is probably based on who understands what you say, so my statement there may be a bit misguided

    But I would just like to say I see it as kind of unecessary, and a bit show-offy (even though I have the understanding this may not be your intention, the translation is that you're parading your intelligence, and my personal behavior tries to avoid this sort of thing. But, there I go projecting my beliefs..

  • I disagree that I should cater to my audience. I'm not sure if I'm catering, to begin with... they may be smarter than us both!

    But, be that as it may, I think people shouldn't be afraid to use words. Certainly, I'm not.

  • agreed (about your vocabular practices and social requirements), but there lies the fact that two people are pretty much required to disagree on at least one aspect of life. respectively, where I disagree with philos on many levels, I found myself in agreement there. Such is life...

  • Don't "fulsome" and "unctuous" mean essentially the same thing?

  • look up the psycology ideas: confirmation bias, and cognitive dissonance. :)

    Theists may be closeminded from our point of view, but as you tangentially touch on, it probably seems the same way to them. i tried to talk with one who who spoke in horrendous sentence fragments. he never made his point either. if you know how 2X=X proves the existence of god, please share for i don't see the connection.

  • Your mistypes are always thought-provoking, theo. Sometimes I wonder if they are intentionally injected with a sort of ironic insight, but one such as me could not be sure.

  • I like how he calls Sam Harris' world view 'a small box' when the guy is a practiced, spiritual mystic.

  • The psychology of faith (as opposed to fanaticism) is fascinatingly complex. It's completely human to want to connect o something larger, even supernatural. But at what point does this yearning become dogma? How does this aspiration to grow eventually become an obstacle to it?

    I wonder if anyone ever attempted a study of this. And could such a study ever be objective?

  • You might want to have a look at "The Mind of the Bible Believer", by Edmund Cohen.

    Religion is more a matter of emotional manipulation than of irrational thinking, which is why our logical deconstructions of their arguments tend to fall on deaf ears.

    They are fixated on their spiritual reality, i.e., a continuous validation of how they feel they should feel. This is the solipsism Christopher Hitchens keeps talking about.

  • I've added it to my Amazon wishlist. So, I'll read it in ten years.

  • So many books, so little time :)

  • @graphicalex not sure if this is 100% relevant to what you are talking about, but I'd recommend reading "The God Part of the Brain" by Matthew Alper. He argues how religious and spritual beliefs and tendencies may have come from evolution, and in turn are diluted or amplified by certain parts of our brain

  • Mahmoud Ahamadinnerjacket

  • A very entertaining and thoughtfull reply. Bravo.

  • I would love to express myself like you do :)

    Did you teach yourself or were you taught ?

  • A combination of the two.

  • You are not a bad writer. You're fantastic and soothing prose is amongst the many facets of your channel that makes it one of my favorites, and in my opinion, one of the most tragically underrated.

  • pure genius! I love your play with words. Are you a writer?

  • Well... I write YouTube videos.

  • I think I made a comment on this video when it was first released, but I thought of something else to say.

    Before we make statements about Christians, atheists, or any other group being angry, agitated, etc., I think we should remember that religion is a sensitive subject, and it's not uncommon for people's tempers to flare when it's being discussed. There's a reason why we're told not to talk about it at the dinner table.

    But, you did allow for exceptions, which was good.

  • One wonders why religion is afforded that special privilege.

  • I actually try to give this privilege to any "hot-button" topic, be it religion, politics, or anything else. For example, if abortion is being discussed, and some people get tetchy, I try to chalk it up to the high emotions of the subject rather than make assumptions about the person's overall character.

  • Well.... abortion is largely a religious issue. Of course, there are other dimensions... but, I take your point.

  • confession and question:i want to strangle Philos71 and his co Xtians, to the point of brain damage. i need the calming voice of theo and DonExodus. Xtian's condescending attitude, fuels what i know is an irrational rage. i find myself struggling with a destructive, unhealthy intolerance. completely in opposition with my otherwise peaceful, contemplative nature. am i alone?

  • I hope so... in all fairness, while I am brutal in my rhetoric towards these persons, I hope that I have retained some sense of the sadness I feel that they remain unaffected by reason and compassion; that sadness can only be borne of the same compassion they lack.

    Consider the words of Yoda: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

  • nope, not at all.

  • Hey, just subscribed to your channel. I very much appreciate your balanced view. It's rare for people on this website to actually provide a reasoned discussion of both points of view and attempt to engage or provoke honest discussion. Prominent youtubers of both christian and atheist pov's tend to denounce most common fallacies yet have no problem resorting to ad hominem attacks. I look forward to the rest of your videos. You seem to have a solid philosophical background and a unique voice.

  • Well, to be fair, I also have no problem resorting to attacking ad hominem. But, thanks!

  • lol, well, it's really REALLY hard to avoid. but at least you make the effort. and btw ahmadinejad is quite handsome in his own dogmatic way so don't worry about the comparison. I'm also listening to this again as i write this, and I vastly enjoy the comparison of souls to merit badges. I sometimes feel like this with my own christian friends as well. Strangely, my muslim friends don't make me feel this way, nor the mormons. I figure my mormon friends plan on baptizing me after death.

  • thankyou theowarner,have subscribed.

    philos71. head in a book shaped box

  • I'm in love... It is wonderful to see a fair and balanced understanding of things, that takes an "honest look" at all factors involved.

    I was just getting discouraged over watching the latest video of VFX (or PCS) regarding his asking for donations only to realize he's just a confused kid who made a large number of mistakes. While certain critiques of him are entirely valid, I find that his position is not as detestable as some have claimed.

    It is refreshing to get a balanced view.

  • indeed. and calming music.

  • the box metaphor is bullshit.

    i like to think of it as a dark room. how big is it? i don't know. it could be just past my nose, or it could span miles in every direction. but in this room there's a circle illuminated by a light, the space in which I can currently see and understand, and that's what i deal with.

  • They have no idea what an atheist is, and their fabrications about us are grossly offensive.

    It is impossible to describe us correctly from inside their box because we are people outside it, where theirs is merely one of hundreds of different beliefs, whose tenets are only granted inside them.

    Which is hardly rocket science. A main reason they get treated as idiots.

    This idiot can't grasp that talking at us as though his god were real, is no different than BSing about Zeus.

  • @GWR3440

    An atheist is one of many schools of thought understood by us the intelligent christians as either individuals investing in scientific evidence against a god not just Yahweh. or the individual who's been brought up to understand dogmatically like many christians that there is no god through their own or someone Else's hardships without the or a god in their lives.

  • wow... just wow. 5/5 a wonderfully versed and proportional response. Great job!

  • . . .and beyond!

  • Genious. Pure gold.

    5 star, vlog and favorited.

  • "the man who believes has hope to be part of eternity and or all the bible promises him."

    As I am not a Christian I do not have to rely on hope to be part of eternity, as I know myself to be part of eternity right now, and thus can never be anything other than eternal.

    I will die in peace, not hope.

  • You could do a great imitation of Carl Sagan, your voice is made for making videos. :)

  • The "amputee" question is very rarely used by atheists. In fact, the first time I heard it, it was being used as a strawman. It isn't used to disprove the existence of any God, but a God that answers prayers and is benevolent. Also, it begs the question, "why do christians only pray for things that can actually happen?" The birth defect question is very similar, a strawman that Christians themselves cannot answer without a multitude of presuppositions.

  • i love how PHILOS is trying to explain to people how they believe or how they dont believe rather...a box? i never imagined the christian god in a box...although...

  • You need to get out and meet some more Christians, Theo.

    As always, a thoughtful and learned video essay, though.

  • Well, I didn't really feel like I needed to mention people in my life outside of YouTube... the frame of references isn't helpful to you.

  • you are truly an amazing speaker. it is good to hear from such freethinkers as yourself.

  • Then I'll make one or two more, to say the least.

  • please do, I'll subscribe to stay updated.

  • lol theowarner gets the most eloquent youtuber award.

  • I have the highest regard for you and, in particular, your masterful use of the english language. I have an above average vocabulary but I have not watch one video of yours without breaking out the dictionary.

    It is nice to have a first class master of our lexicon hanging out here in the coach section that is YouTube.

  • To quote Steve Martin: "Some people have a way with words... some people not have way."

  • This video is an incredibly thoughtful, level-headed and poignant response to Philos71. I am continually impressed by the depth of character expressed in Theowarner's videos.

  • Wow. Thanks!

  • Truth is always the most comforting there is. Not mirages.

    No matter how hard of a reality, I would always prefer it for a dream. Pain and desperation is the lifeblood of mankind as much as hope and faith. One only makes preferences because of biological inclination.

    True connaisseurs though...

  • I like to write, and I used to think i was fairly good at it. While listening to your video I found myself actaully thinking "pretty words," and immeaditely felt like I should be wearing dirty overalls with no shirt, picking at my few remaining teeth. Thanks for using my self esteem as a snot rag. (LOL)

    Awesome vid!

  • You might want to consider formulating "I don't care if you believe or not" differently. Perhaps, if I'm not misreading your intent, you might want to say something like "I don't think believing is a requirement for being a good person". You can still be concerned for their "immortal soul" without condemning their mortal being.

  • As a Christian, the only problem I encounter with saying, "I don't care if you believe or not," is that the person with whom you are talking then says, "Well, that's nice - so if I burn in Hell it doesn't matter to you?" Then, I say, well, of course I care, and they say, "So, you're actually just trying to covertly convert me."

  • I think that's why it's important to rid yourself of this idea of Hell. Even if it is a reality, it does nothing but irritate life.

  • The believer dies hoping for heaven, or dreading hell - not necessarily an attractive offer. Regardless, I'm not inclined to rob myself of reason in life so that that I may die with hope. Nor am I inclined to promote hope to some exalted status. Hope, it seems to me, is the cheapest of human aspirations.

    Most importantly, I'm not convinced that animals are not hopeful when they die.

  • Should i feel bad that i visited a dictionary site 4 times for one slide?

  • If it weren't for the dictionary, I doubt I would have written that slide.

  • All animals die. You will die. So you are an animal.

    Sense? No. GTFO my interwebs.

  • What an arbitrary statement. I cannot even imagine how you could think that.

  • Subscribed.

  • sophisticated, lucid and true

    thunderf00tesque

  • 9:21 = yay!

  • omg nick came to my school last year, i gave him a hug:D

  • what are u trying to say?

  • Thank you for addressing Philos's video, he constantly tries to point out other people's ignorance but then fails to recognize his own.

    5 stars, and just subscribed, awesome stuff!

  • I can't get my head around how the supernatural can interact with the natural world without becoming part of the natural world. We extend our definition of nature to include every other causal force or object as soon as we become aware of it. What quality or characteristic excludes the supernatural from nature (if not an absence of interaction with nature)?

  • For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. (1 Corinthians 3:6)

  • No doubt the best voice on Youtube. You even manage to make a video response critiquing my video sound good. Dang....

  • Good job.

    hearing you was pleasant.

  • Your loquacious videos are always a breath of fresh air to me. : )

  • You can say that the question 'Why doesn't God heal amputees?' isn't really about the question as you say in your video "Thus the question is really about..." Void of context and a person to present the question and provide an explanation, no one really knows what the question is really about. I see little value in criticizing someone for answering based upon what they understood the question to be.

  • Well, the question has an intellectual pedigree and heritage which Philos71 seemed to be invoking when he mentioned the question. He said: "People ask..."

    Please, he seemed not to speak to "healing amputees," but rather the birth of people without limbs... which is a completely different matter.

    So, there's an assumed context and syntactical basis for my criticism.

  • thats exactly what i thought, born limbless, and getting a limb(s) removed seem to be completely different hings given the context. how they were addressed by philos71, was poor. i also agree that a simple "word swap" experiment is revealing and useful to help examine inherent inconsistencies and prejudices.

  • Also, according to youtube you currently have 1,666 subscribers. Finally, your true religion has been revealed to us all. If only we had listened to togetherforpeace and mikecampochiaro.

  • How's this for useless debate... there is some contention over what the real number of the beast is... 616, 666,615.... weird.

  • Well that's just stupid. Everybody knows it's 867-5309.

  • Damn you Tommy Tutone!

  • lol win

  • This was a sweet video.

  • Hey... I just missed you on stickam.... I'm still there.

  • Well, I'm about to get kicked out of the internet cafe in which I surf so I cannot return.

  • Well, I suppose there's always the cellular solution... I feel like I should just pay your cable bill or whatever it is that's keeping you in internet cafes... I didn't even know they still existed.

  • Allí en Rangoon comprendí que los dioses

    eran tan enemigos como Dios

    del pobre ser humano.

  • Another great video, theo. :)

    I very much agree about this: philos71 isn't trying to "liberate" people from a narrow-minded "box": he's just trying to get people from one box into another.

    I also noticed how similar this video was to VFX's obnoxious attempts to strike down hard-line materialism (which he thinks is synonymous with atheism).

  • Does Philos71 REALLY not understand the meaning of the question, or is he pretending he doesn't. He's either a complete moron, or a liar, and he doesn't strike me as a complete moron, but I could be wrong.

  • Philos71 "real spiritual realm"

    Does saying something is real make it true? I think not.

  • I love the verbosity of your videos.

  • Great video, and finally someone explained it to him. VFX misunderstood "why doesn't God heal amputees" just as momentously.

    It's funny. These fundies don't even seem to understand the questions about their faith that they're getting.

    No wonder they never give us a good answer.

  • The box argument...

    In the "box" argument, they are attempting to argue the existence of god by describing that god as being as ineffectual and absent as a non-existent god would be when it comes to affecting whats inside the box.

    They say we are defining a box, but then they tell us what our definition is.

    our definition says that is something is affecting whats inside the box, you can detect it by observing the affect. If no one can detect it then no one has reason to think it's there.

  • *if

    *effect

  • you get the award for most words in a sentence

  • i'm sure the hypocrisy of saying atheists view God inside a box isn't escaping anyone. More christian apologist bullshit.

    What box have I created??? The Bible is supposed to be the infallible word of God. It says right there what he thinks, what he wants, and what he expects. And real life doesn't reflect or confirm any of the shit it claims. I didn't create the box. The box is the Bible; ancient mythology produced by ignorant bronze age people

  • I would love to talk like TheOwarner.

  • I'm on Stickam frequently and would enjoy it!

    Same name.

  • You know, I never did get Bob Dylan.

    I think we are drawn to the truth involuntary. It is a reaction, like one we would make to right a boat, or show compassion to a hurt child, a reflex. This tendency take various forms, some healthy, others not. Reason, though perhaps the most effective tool for carrying out such an impulse, is not always the chosen. So, I have patience with those who see and act differently on this matter than I.

  • As usual I've found your latest offering to the basin of the youtub to be fantastic; its eloquence exceeded only by its wit.

  • I'm but a lowly undergrad, of course, but I nearly choked laughing at "I have a BA and I think you're full of shit, you sexy silver-tongued swine, you!" (I paraphrased a bit.)

    Are you sure mikecampochiaro isn't an elaborate troll? I am not sure what to make of hundreds of vids titled along the lines of "Atheists, why don't you kill yourselves?" and "The Protestant Churches are the Great Whore in Revelation"

  • "....or doesn't enjoy saying Frederico Garcia Lorca"

    :)

    I am enjoying saying it now.

    Good video.

  • Theist Logic

    Theist: I have a baseball.

    Atheist: Prove it

    Theist: YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT I DON'T!!!

    STOP BEING CLOSE-MINDED!!!!

    Atheist: You're right. I can't prove that you don't have a baseball therefore you have a baseball.

  • Did you say "Garthia?" You're Spanish? Now I'm even more confused, you enigma you.

  • Indeed. And what is an "enigma" ?

  • Is this a trick question? Because as you address in this video, your own beliefs are to remain an enigma.

  • I was just joking around. I guess it wasn't funny.

  • Believe me, I figured out a while ago I'm not smart enough to appreciate whatever brand of humor yours is.

  • loved the video.

  • How could a theist say were close minded without acknowledging that we can say the very same thing to them about how they view reality.

  • It's the mulberry bush.

  • ....or doesn't enjoy saying Frederico Garcia Lorca

    LOL!

  • "The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know." ~ Col. Robert G. Ingersoll, "Orthodoxy", 1884

  • nice one Theo. I think my IQ went up a bit. funny that god will only do mricals that could probably have happened by them sevles. most likley he dosent excist.

  • I love you theo!

  • Damn the Atlantic Ocean!

  • Lol! You know i would huggle you!

  • very good video.

  • Self transcendence is the medical term for religious. It's all biological, hardware not entirely software. We can quantify your "personal relationship with Jesus" in a laboratory!

  • Awesome, theo, thank you.

  • I think you really do speak for a great many others who share your perspective but who may lack your communication and language skills. Perhaps by dint of such efforts yours the cards will be lifted from a good many eyes.

  • beautiful video!

  • I don't take it as a compliment although I happily return it.

  • LOOL!  Touche!

  • Well done. Your best video yet.

  • "my own nativity"

    I knew it! Theo is THE MESSIAH

  • You've sussed it.

  • What's this about your Nativity???

    Were you born in a stable? with Wise Men attending?

  • That was very illuminating, and I enjoyed the questions it raised quite a bit.

    For example, in fiendishly calculating the salvationary math that fundamentalists do, why do their tactics never improve? Why do they get stuck in the same attempted exploitation of insecurity, insult, and fear that has been the mainstay of organized Christian conversion since the Council of Nicaea?

    Sure, the arguments change, but they always seem to exist within the same vein. So what keeps them there?

  • i think out side the box... it seems like he is projecting when he talks about the box.

  • It is beautiful just to hear you speak.

    Thank you for this video.

  • Does watching your videos count as college credit? It should, I always feel more intelligent afterwards.

  • Straight to the fount.

  • this video defined the word, 'touche'. You are amazing, Mr. Warner.

  • You are at the top of your game here, sir. Very well done.

  • Sometimes when I see a video with lots of big words, I imagine what it's like for a person with a small vocabulary.

  • I imagine that someone like NephilimFree has to watch with a dictionary at hand, just so he can know whether or not he's being insulted.

  • Hi video.

  • Bravo! Well spoken as usual, Theo.

  • Vey well said, you have a great voice. Beware of teh spwllcheck....

  • Fuck, I hate that asshole, Philos71. His stupidity is an embarrassment to the human race. When people like him speak, I often wonder if I'm an alien from another planet, or maybe it's a glitch in the matrix; Philos71's software may have had some kind of malfunction. A major malfunction.

  • Beautifully said...

    5/5 and subscription.

  • In Philos' spiritual world, Hitler and Ted Bundy dine with Jesus every day ad infinitum, while Anne Frank and people who actually try to reduce suffering go to hell for not worshipping god.

    Christians have no reasons to do anything good because being nice means nothing - only kowtowing and prostration to the Christian god matter.

  • Thumbs up for you, theo!

  • Philos would convert more people by amputating all four limbs than by four hundred thousand videos of the same style and vein.

  • Exactly! If it's so pleasing to god to be an amputee, Philos should put his money where his mouth is.

    Cheers.

  • Great video as always =)

  • Great video, theowarner. Saying that, with the music and your lovely voice, you could probably make reading the phone book a pleasant listening experience.

  • Five'd and fave'd.

  • i wouldn't take it for granted that these characters are all that concerned with saving souls. it often seems like it's coming from who's the most sanctimonious king-of-the-hill. they really seem to be more engaged by trumpeting their superior morality. not surprising, since from the start, they must be riddled with voids, which is why they react so violently when reason threatens to destroy their lousy, moldering mental/psychological security blanket.

  • THANK YOU, everytime I see someone mention the amputee question they get it wrong. VFX most notably.

    Thanks for posting a correction, 5/5

  • im getting REAL sick of that camera angle. seems to be a habit amoung youtube christians when they mean to lecture "unconvinced children". attempting empathy with someone elses views even for a second is beyond some peoples ability, its even worse and more transparent when that person has been taught. i saw this vid a while ago, and its the 5000th or so version of the same arguement ive been watching since i signed up. great vid "theo" you are my youtube uncle.

  • Very nice!

    Theo, what is your opinion as to mikecampochiaro's sanity?

    His video about you was very weird so then after seeing that I came across tomtom006699's video 'mikecampochiaro molest puppies'.

    I now can't help but feel equal amounts of pity, contempt and the urge to administer drugs.

  • His sense of humor is dry. I can appreciate it. But, it's the arrogance and his clumpy philosophy that gets to me. He's a tricky one to figure out.

  • You give me food for thought.

  • Fantastic vid Theo!

  • Thanks!

  • Third!

  • Brilliant theowarner, so thoughtful and intelligent. But I am a poor bastard. I've never listened to Bob Dylan. :(