what on earth was the MC doing wearing a choir surplice instead of a cotta. It looked totally out of place. Secondly somone should tell the thurifer that you dont sensewith your arm as if you are about to lob a cricket ball! Rather use the wrist its all in the wrist dear and probably better to have a man doing it anyway
It's about saving souls, and not just mine. It's not about 'Branding'. I hold to what I said, and with my own name on it. I'm thankful for all worship.
This form of Worship for me is transporting. We are in the world but not of it. Dressing the Altar is a prayerful act of affection to our Lord. We are being Called to the Table to Dine together as One.
The snarky comments are funny. If you can't put your real name to your statements, how's anyone expected to take you serious. In another century vandals would've thrown bricks through the stained glass. Today we blog. That's how I see it.
Pray tell... will we quibble like this before His presence or defend our inaction in not loving one another? God is the great power; like the Sun, many rays illuminate us. Try not to block mine, dear hearts!
no such thing as women priest OMG! Please define the Word PRIEST than youll know what you are talking about - yeah right it is a person that delivers religious messages in which doesnt state if your black white yellow brown red tits or balls - its about a person ( human ) that aggresively knows that the world will be saved by Gods will . Understanding that we will be judged by what we do and not by our differences...RCC - if you cant use your heart , at least a bit from between your shoulders...
What a joke. "Perfection" at worship when the ONLY, TRUE and PERFECT SACRIFICE is Jesus Christ. No wonder these men occupy themselves with "unspeakable horrors," witnessed to and documented by the reformers. Looks Holy, right? No wonder Scripture describes Satan as an "Angel of Light." Return to God. Return to Truth. Give up this man-made, human invented, farce.
I Love Anglo-Catholicism! My church here in Toronto (Scarborough), Church of the Epiphany use to be Anglo-Catholic until our priest of 17 years retired. But, I as a server, is trying to bring catholicity back to the my church!! I don't think I'm doing to bad. We used incense for the first time on Easter since June. We use to use it on the first Sunday of the Month and every feast which fell on a Sunday or which was pumped to a Sunday.
It is not our job as mere human beings to label people as "infidels" or "enemies of Christ." Last I checked God was the eternal judge. Not the pope. Also, last I checked, truly following Catholic tradition meant obeying edicts sent from Rome even if you disagree. So are you in essence saying that Benedict XVI is NOT infalable, unlike previous popes? With all due respect, it's attitudes like this that drove me out of the Catholic Church and into the Episcopal Church.
Not to mention, women need to wear veils when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament! What disrespectful women who wear no veils and even pantaloons to church (and I speak of pantaloons as in the kind that are not under skirts).
You must try to talk to your priest or Bishop! This is an outrage, that people are coming to church as if it was a meeting hall. The devil is indeed attacking the church with full force, what a bigger shame is that the Clergy see no wrong in matters like this!
And the clergy won't see wrong in matters like this because as long as they are Vatican II, they are infected with modernism and can only lead souls to hell. That's why Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated bishops without JPII's permission. We need bishops who care about the salvation of our souls!
I hope you are not trying to say that John Paul II was an evil pope. Many Cardinals and Bishops gave themselves over to the world and it's evil ways.
There are 3 MAIN cardinals to blame; Card. Villot, Benelli, and Casaroli. Villot was the one who murdered both Paul VI AND John Paul I. Benelli and casaroli were also involved in replacing Paul VI with an imposter that would almost destroy the church.
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But I've seen many pictures of JPII and even Benedict XVI with Infidels and Jews and Protestants. Would Saint Pius X or Pope Pius XII ever be caught in a photograph with such enemies of Christ? Of course not. Yes, Benedict XVI is the pope, not an antipope, but I wouldn't call him a good pope. We must fight for Catholic tradition and never give into Rome. I believe Bishop Fellay said something about all the Judases surrounding Bendict XVI, too. I understand. We live in hard times.
But he (The Pope) Is a spiritual father to ALL. Some Protestants even look up to him as the leader of the Church, with a capital 'C'! Pius XII helped the Jews, in fact, during the persecution of the Jews Pope Pius XII housed hundreds and possibly thousands of Jews in the Vatican.
"But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you" Matthew 5:44
Protestants are not Christian. Period. They reject Holy Mother, the Church. So, do you think the Crusades were unjust? The Pope called them. Yes, Pope Pius XII housed Jews in the Vatican. He did that because he loved his enemies. Jews are enemies of Christ because they hate him. But we as Catholics must love them who hate us, even if loving them means killing a few of them (the Crusades and Inquisition) to save the souls of others.
To be honest, I don't see my view of Love to be as you say it, "Catholics must love them who hate us, even if loving them means killing a few of them (the Crusades and Inquisition) to save the souls of others." We must love them through Justice, and purity, not through brute force, or bloodshed.
Then clearly you are not Catholic. St. Anthony longed to be a Crusader. You must hate him. St. Francis longed to go on a Crusade to be martyred. You must hate him. St. Joan of Arc. Need we say more? The Inquisition was a good thing. You must hate St. Pius V, the greatest Inquisitor of all times. You are not Catholic.
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The Inquisition was good because it stopped heretics who, if left to live, would ruin the souls of millions like Martin Luther and John Calvin did. The Church needs a good Inquisition these days. Let the burning begin.
Furthermore, the torture was only for those who committed very grave crimes. And it wasn't even that bad compared to, let's say the KGB. It's better to lock them up than to allow them to go free bringing about the ruin of many souls.
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I have an Anglican female priest and she is real as you say that there is "no such thing". They have spiritual qualities that are equal and may even surpass the male quality. Yes, women are passionate, but wasn't Jesus. The Anglican Church settled the female ordination thing back in the late 70's, and my priest was one of the first females to be ordained.
you're right, it's a traditionally jewish thing to do because, might i remind you kind sir, that Jesus was a JEW! tell me of anywhere in the bible where it says that women aren't allowed to obtain this sacrament and I shall believe you.
and i would kindly disagree with you because, again, there are no biblical basis from which women are forbidden to obtain that sacrament. it's simply tradition. like i said, if you find any place in the bible in which Jesus said that only men were elegible to be ordained, please give it to me, and I shall renounce my Anglican faith and return to the 'Mother Church".
@amrascarpathia With all due respect, I Tim 2.12 seems to be as clear as one could possibly ask for in this matter. No ifs ands or buts.
Plus, we do not "forbid" women from being ordained...that is not our position. We simply do not recognize that any authority has been given to us to ordain women. Without this power, it is presumptuous to simply go ahead and ordain because the feminist fad screams at us to do so. Ideologies do not judge the Church, the Church judges ideaologies.
@DelendaEstCarthago1 And yet, and do correct me if I am wrong, it was a woman that God chose to be the bearer of the Incarnation, in essence the first minister of the sacraments. And, I'm going out on a limb here, that same woman initiated Jesus's ministry. And wasn't it women that first declared the Resurrection?
" A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 2:11-12
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35
@checkthisout732 So, at a Passover, there were no women present? What world do you live in. Oh, that's right. The ROMAN world. It would be UNTHINKABLE in the Jewish world to have only adult males present. In fact, it would make the passover invalid.
@john62718hd What the Bible says I believe and the bible states that none of the of the female followers of Christ were present at the first dedication
not stolen fool. but kept. since the Anglican Church, along with its Roman and Eastern Orthodox counterparts, form the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
una mujer acolito???? ornamentos postconciliares??? al subdiacono aclararle q al pasar delante del altar se hace genuflexion aunque no se haya consagrado aun
This is not so. "Acolyte" is part of minor orders, forbidden to women. Since she aids at the altar, she could only be called an extraordinary minister of the altar.
In the Anglican tradition, we no longer have minor orders. Thus St Thomas's has an "Acolytes' Guild." The acolyte to the left of the thurifer (from the viewer's perspective) is actually studying for the priesthood at a nearby theological college.
"not valid"? Well, maybe not to Romans, but for Anglicans, perfectly valid. Married Anglican priests have become married Roman priests; the Orthodox marry. At one time, Rome spread a large umbrella, wide enough to shelter a diversity of practice. Throught the ages, many a Christian has canonically received all seven sacraments.
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hahaha? valid???? anglican? my god. i hope so they understand the meaning of the 7 sacraments. they just make a lot of reason just to hide the truth.... try to think why until now marriage should be separate from priesthood simply they offer their lives to the lord. if they want to get married, theres nothing wrong but they have to leave the priesthood and be a lay servant. .....
That is so stupid Jofangs, what you said!! Eastern Orthodox priests get married, Eastern CATHOLIC priests, whom are still under rome, get MARRIED.. Its only the latin rite who prohibited marriage with NO canonical grounds.. get educated before you bash people..
The Church speaks in the name of Christ and so has the right to form Church law as it sees fit. It is not for you to sit in judgment over the Church. Furthermore, clerical celibacy is a long-standing tradition which goes back to the time of the Apostles. The medieval decree merely formalized it and made it a standard.
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What I can say is that Anglican and Episcopalian masses are not valid.... Married priests? its just like they did not make any promise to the lord. Roman Catholic priests promise to be single and married to the church. Anglican? Henry 8? Oh my... God bless you all.
Celebacy is not intrinsic to the priesthood. To say that marriage in any way impedes a man from being validly ordained is nonsense. Many Eastern Catholic and Orthodox priests are married. Clerical celebacy is merely a practice of the Roman Church, albeit an important one.
The Anglican Church is wrong on many, many doctrinal issues. Married priesthood is not one of them since it is not a doctrinal issue.
Clearly you've never head of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church which have PLENTY of married priests. For better or for worse, but they're there, and allowed to be there, and shall continue to be there.
When I say 'almost identical to protestants', I am basing that on poll after poll. I would further argue that being intellecutally honest is more difficult than anything. Blind faith is easy. Reaching into your own soul, conscience and intellect is painfully difficult. I must say though, your comment " I would be carefull (sic) when criticising me my friend" strikes me as neurotic. Are you entertaining delusions of grandeur? Please go get some help. I'll pray for you.
Fundamentalist Christian churches like Pentecostals, Evangelicals and Charismatic's pushing their message on a scale never before seen in their huge mega-churches and TV Christian rock shows. Using tactics such as working and encouraging the crowd participation. Relying on the euphoria and excitement to win people over claiming its the 'holy spirit' within them. Receiving so called 'gifts' such as talking in tongues. Traditional Churches cannot compete with them.
Traditional Catholic truth will always in the end be true, not like fundamentalism and 16 century innovations by men, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, ours is a Gospel of self-sacrifice and humility, not the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" which contradicts the Apostolic Way. I am an Anglican (Anglo-Catholic), and The Church was in Britain before any Roman Catholic came in the 7th century, it was brought to Britain by St.Joseph of Arimathæa when he planted his staff in Glastonbury
I pray that our dear Anglican brothers and sisters would one day unite with us, the Holy Catholic Church, in its mission to bring the light and truth of Christ to the ends of the Earth. May God bless you.
Thankfully, in the long run, it is not about competition. It is about truth. Sooner or later, these man-made heresies will fall away and the One True Church shall continue to herald the glory of Christ unto the end of time.
Now, let's continue your studies. The documents of Vatican II stated clearly that Anglicanism was NOT protestant- it carried too many (even in their skewed eyes) marks of the historic faith. Roman catholics have always had a strange sort of love-hate relationship with the Anglican church. I suspect this is a fruitless effort, and that you're a bit delusional. Were you one of the Magdelene sisters? I would conclude by looking at what Anglicanism has produced, and the Roman church (CONT)
For a church to remain true to the faith, it must address truth as it comes into clearer focus. Not too long ago, the roman catholic church was burning people at the stake for proclaiming the sun the center of the universe. I suspect you may envious of Anglican liturgy. The last time I attended a rc "mass", it was Ascension day. The introit? "I'm leaving on a jet plane". Pathetic. I hope you're not a priest. If you are, hands off the little boys. What a damaged church.
Are you a Christian? If you are that comment was not christian. If the catholic church is damaged, then your church is crumbling before all our very eyes. protestantism is going to be like a sneeze..here and gone all at once. Ever heard of henry VIII
Oh, cks125.. poor thing. Where to start. Ever heard of Mary I? Archbishop Thomas Cranmer? To quote Riddley "Cranmer was tried for treason and heresy when Mary I came to the throne. Imprisoned for over two years and under pressure from the Church authorities, he made several recantations and reconciled himself with the Catholic faith. However, on the day of his execution, he dramatically withdrew his recantations and died as a martyr." Mary I successed to the throne after Henry VII. (cont.)
after Henry VIII. He did not "found" the Anglican church. The bishop of Rome tried to kill reform theology, and as was so common, literally tried to kill its leaders- Cranmer being the first. It was too late though. The seeds of the break had been sown. I had to laugh at your bizarre comment asking me if I was Christian? MY comments are not Christian? Excuse me, please read your comments made one day ago. Rather hateful I'd say, not to mention horribly written "ordacity" (sic). LOL.
The Anglicans have given the world Churchill, Roosevelt, Desmond Tutu, etc. The roman catholic church? Ummm, Hitler, Mussolini, Ratzinger. Oh, yeah, he was "forced" to serve in the Wehrmacht. You slam protestants, but compare Ratzinger with Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran theologian. He was hanged on a meat hook for opposing the Nazis. You will have to do some research since you don't have much of a grasp of history. If you're another closeted gay catholic, just come out and get it over with. fini.
Again, and again...you are wrong. I have a great understanding of history. Protestantism ndoesnt loike a hard life when it ciomes to faith in god...your church is a pick and mix church...youl have all the fancy vestments and prayers, but not the hardship that comes with it. I would be carefull when criticising me my friend.
First of all, I have suggested ad nauseam that intellectual honesty is profoundly important. "protestantism...is a pick and mix church". You have not heard the expression "cafeteria catholics"? The truth is that roman catholics hold position on religion, sexuality, birth control, etc. almost identical to protestants. I would argue those 'free churches' not defining themselves as protestant are the ones that take what you call the hard road, the pentecostals, many baptists, etc. (cont)
I cant stand Anglo-catholic masses. You split from us, and have the ordacity to copy what the old Catholic mass does. Go and worship your Rowan Williams or something..leave the old rite alone for us catholics. Its not valid and go back to your women priests and bishops.
And I can't stand pedantic little rants like yours cks125. A step further, I can't stand the pass given the roman church over issues like child molestation. Why hasn't Cardinal Bernard Law been extradited from Vatican City for his complicity in so many abuse scandals? Oh, now that I think of it, I also really dislike intellectual dishonesty, or perhaps a total lack of intellectual activity. You make lots of unsubstantiated claims that only a poorly educated roman catholic would make. (cont)
You assume that Rome controlled things from the beginning. This is part of roman catholic mythology. The mass rose organically in the Christian church over many centuries and took many forms. The Eastern church would I suspect, take issue with your specious reasoning here too. Anglicans reject the authority of the bishop of Rome, not catholicism per se. The roman catholic church remains a bastion of reactionary theology and as a result it has lost Europe. (cont. above one more time)
I must follow up my last comment with the comment that some Angl-Catholic parishes are very solid. The sad thing with the Anglican Communion today (at least in North America) is that you cannot pressume orthodoxy. This is why I left and became Catholic. It saddens me greatly to see what they have done to Anglicanism.
Do not be fooled by todays Anglo-Catholics. They might be traditional in liturgy, but many parishes adhere to very untraditional teachings. For example, my local Anglo-Catholic Church has inscense, latin and the BCP but does blessing ofsame sex marriages. I would much rather have a guitar at a Catholic Mass and know the teachings are sound than pretty vestments and music and know that I am being fed heresy.
Well auctually thease came from the Roman Catholic Church. Try the Roman Catholic Tridentine Mass (one that is recognized by Rome mind you), much more sollemnity.
Sadly, the Catholic Church has the least solemn services nowadays. The Novus Ordo mass at any given parish ranges from decent to banal (most leaning towards banality).
Why do Anglo-Catholics use women altar servers/acolytes? It seems inconsistent with their traditional stance on things. It seems very out of place...especially with an all-male clergy.
Well yes, but not at TLM parishes, only the really modern ones. This liturgy seems to be the Anglican equivalent of the TLM, so it seems out of place.
The form of the Mass is quite traditional but many Anglo-Catholic parishes in England are fairly middle of the road, politically and don't object at all to lady priests. The only REALLY conservative ones are Forward in Faith. They are the most up the candle in the Anglican Communion, anyway.
Because there's no reason not to, and Anglo-Catholics don't necessarily copy everything from Roman Catholic churches. A prominent Anglo-Catholic parish in NYC will have Presiding Bishop the Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori as celebrant tomorrow evening for Solemn Mass on the Feast of the Annunciation.
The thurifer looks as though he is throwing the discus at the olympics. Anglican Masses look like Catholic masses and vice versa in England. The subdeacon is very fidgety, however the atmosphere is nice. The vestments are green. Someone must be colour blind.
Maybe the color on my monitor is messed up, but the vestments look gray to me--a non-liturgical color. Are they actually some other color that I'm not seeing?
Type in "Easter 2006 Opening Hymn" and watch. Now THAT is how you swing a censer :). we don't use incense in the Methodist Church but i wish we did...it's such a beautiful picture of prayer and covering each other in prayer.
This is a stunningly beautiful church and the Mass is always celebrated beautifully. I often wonder why certain Anglo-Catholic elements such as the Asperges me Domine, the Angleus and the stations of the cross are missing at this church. Nonetheless it is a beutiful place to worship.
more religous superstitous nonsense. This harks back to the mid 14th century when it was though that smoke cleansed the air of the plague. the stench of the rotton bodies was disguised but burning incense has no cleansing properties. The Church is a joke that has suckered you all.
No, incense is a part of the ancient worship of the Hebrews. We Catholics have inherited this from them, no Middle Ages in it. Try reading the Old Testament where incense was to be used in the temple. It is a symbol of our prayers rising to God.
lol..yes it does. we don't use incense in our Methodist Church but i wish we did, i've seen it used in Catholic and Anglican services and for some reason it has a worshipful effect on me.
I spy a serviette who can't use a thurible properly... Reason #32458 for an all-male sanctuary!
jbosco08 1 month ago
what on earth was the MC doing wearing a choir surplice instead of a cotta. It looked totally out of place. Secondly somone should tell the thurifer that you dont sensewith your arm as if you are about to lob a cricket ball! Rather use the wrist its all in the wrist dear and probably better to have a man doing it anyway
southafricandominion 7 months ago
Was that a woman who gave the incense blessing ot the congregation? Anyway, she is suppose to kneel as she passes the altar not bow.
sungmoon1987 7 months ago
It's about saving souls, and not just mine. It's not about 'Branding'. I hold to what I said, and with my own name on it. I'm thankful for all worship.
Belldavid1000 10 months ago
Yes but the Anglican Church from Henry VIII and thereafter is heretical and inherently corrupt.
therenaissanceman100 10 months ago
@therenaissanceman100 What? Don't you believe in 'the divine right of kings to marry their arm candy?'
poetcomic1 1 month ago
This form of Worship for me is transporting. We are in the world but not of it. Dressing the Altar is a prayerful act of affection to our Lord. We are being Called to the Table to Dine together as One.
Belldavid1000 10 months ago
The snarky comments are funny. If you can't put your real name to your statements, how's anyone expected to take you serious. In another century vandals would've thrown bricks through the stained glass. Today we blog. That's how I see it.
Belldavid1000 10 months ago 2
Beautiful!
Belldavid1000 10 months ago
Pray tell... will we quibble like this before His presence or defend our inaction in not loving one another? God is the great power; like the Sun, many rays illuminate us. Try not to block mine, dear hearts!
rexlbumbum 1 year ago
no such thing as women priest OMG! Please define the Word PRIEST than youll know what you are talking about - yeah right it is a person that delivers religious messages in which doesnt state if your black white yellow brown red tits or balls - its about a person ( human ) that aggresively knows that the world will be saved by Gods will . Understanding that we will be judged by what we do and not by our differences...RCC - if you cant use your heart , at least a bit from between your shoulders...
4he41 1 year ago 2
What a joke. "Perfection" at worship when the ONLY, TRUE and PERFECT SACRIFICE is Jesus Christ. No wonder these men occupy themselves with "unspeakable horrors," witnessed to and documented by the reformers. Looks Holy, right? No wonder Scripture describes Satan as an "Angel of Light." Return to God. Return to Truth. Give up this man-made, human invented, farce.
john62718hd 1 year ago
i'm a thurifer and i 12 y dat old man is a thurifer?
cmoney9393 1 year ago
Such irrational nonsense.
cheongyei 1 year ago
I Love Anglo-Catholicism! My church here in Toronto (Scarborough), Church of the Epiphany use to be Anglo-Catholic until our priest of 17 years retired. But, I as a server, is trying to bring catholicity back to the my church!! I don't think I'm doing to bad. We used incense for the first time on Easter since June. We use to use it on the first Sunday of the Month and every feast which fell on a Sunday or which was pumped to a Sunday.
mmaybrown 1 year ago 2
It is not our job as mere human beings to label people as "infidels" or "enemies of Christ." Last I checked God was the eternal judge. Not the pope. Also, last I checked, truly following Catholic tradition meant obeying edicts sent from Rome even if you disagree. So are you in essence saying that Benedict XVI is NOT infalable, unlike previous popes? With all due respect, it's attitudes like this that drove me out of the Catholic Church and into the Episcopal Church.
dank1280 2 years ago
Not to mention, women need to wear veils when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament! What disrespectful women who wear no veils and even pantaloons to church (and I speak of pantaloons as in the kind that are not under skirts).
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
You must try to talk to your priest or Bishop! This is an outrage, that people are coming to church as if it was a meeting hall. The devil is indeed attacking the church with full force, what a bigger shame is that the Clergy see no wrong in matters like this!
OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
And the clergy won't see wrong in matters like this because as long as they are Vatican II, they are infected with modernism and can only lead souls to hell. That's why Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated bishops without JPII's permission. We need bishops who care about the salvation of our souls!
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
I hope you are not trying to say that John Paul II was an evil pope. Many Cardinals and Bishops gave themselves over to the world and it's evil ways.
There are 3 MAIN cardinals to blame; Card. Villot, Benelli, and Casaroli. Villot was the one who murdered both Paul VI AND John Paul I. Benelli and casaroli were also involved in replacing Paul VI with an imposter that would almost destroy the church.
OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
I cannot judge a pope! No one can judge a pope, but I can in no way agree with his actions and his ecumenism.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
He is ever the pope. You can't ALWAYS think that it is the Holy Father that is doing all this. Remember many Judases surround him.
OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
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But I've seen many pictures of JPII and even Benedict XVI with Infidels and Jews and Protestants. Would Saint Pius X or Pope Pius XII ever be caught in a photograph with such enemies of Christ? Of course not. Yes, Benedict XVI is the pope, not an antipope, but I wouldn't call him a good pope. We must fight for Catholic tradition and never give into Rome. I believe Bishop Fellay said something about all the Judases surrounding Bendict XVI, too. I understand. We live in hard times.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
But he (The Pope) Is a spiritual father to ALL. Some Protestants even look up to him as the leader of the Church, with a capital 'C'! Pius XII helped the Jews, in fact, during the persecution of the Jews Pope Pius XII housed hundreds and possibly thousands of Jews in the Vatican.
"But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you" Matthew 5:44
if you would even call them 'enemies'.
OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
Protestants are not Christian. Period. They reject Holy Mother, the Church. So, do you think the Crusades were unjust? The Pope called them. Yes, Pope Pius XII housed Jews in the Vatican. He did that because he loved his enemies. Jews are enemies of Christ because they hate him. But we as Catholics must love them who hate us, even if loving them means killing a few of them (the Crusades and Inquisition) to save the souls of others.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
To be honest, I don't see my view of Love to be as you say it, "Catholics must love them who hate us, even if loving them means killing a few of them (the Crusades and Inquisition) to save the souls of others." We must love them through Justice, and purity, not through brute force, or bloodshed.
OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
Then clearly you are not Catholic. St. Anthony longed to be a Crusader. You must hate him. St. Francis longed to go on a Crusade to be martyred. You must hate him. St. Joan of Arc. Need we say more? The Inquisition was a good thing. You must hate St. Pius V, the greatest Inquisitor of all times. You are not Catholic.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
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OrganOfPraise7 2 years ago
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The Inquisition was good because it stopped heretics who, if left to live, would ruin the souls of millions like Martin Luther and John Calvin did. The Church needs a good Inquisition these days. Let the burning begin.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
Furthermore, the torture was only for those who committed very grave crimes. And it wasn't even that bad compared to, let's say the KGB. It's better to lock them up than to allow them to go free bringing about the ruin of many souls.
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
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They banned The Holy Mass in 1534. This is just a Holy Show. The need to return to the Mother.
kpman 2 years ago
No such thing as women priests, always remember that
bow1964 2 years ago 9
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I have an Anglican female priest and she is real as you say that there is "no such thing". They have spiritual qualities that are equal and may even surpass the male quality. Yes, women are passionate, but wasn't Jesus. The Anglican Church settled the female ordination thing back in the late 70's, and my priest was one of the first females to be ordained.
merlynskydragonheart 2 years ago
Jesus instituted the priethood at the last supper for MEN ONLY!!! I didnt see mary magdalene, or the virgin mary at the last supper did I?!?!?!
checkthisout732 2 years ago
you're right, it's a traditionally jewish thing to do because, might i remind you kind sir, that Jesus was a JEW! tell me of anywhere in the bible where it says that women aren't allowed to obtain this sacrament and I shall believe you.
amrascarpathia 2 years ago
What I meant to say was that only MEN could be ordained as priests.
checkthisout732 2 years ago
and i would kindly disagree with you because, again, there are no biblical basis from which women are forbidden to obtain that sacrament. it's simply tradition. like i said, if you find any place in the bible in which Jesus said that only men were elegible to be ordained, please give it to me, and I shall renounce my Anglican faith and return to the 'Mother Church".
amrascarpathia 2 years ago
@amrascarpathia With all due respect, I Tim 2.12 seems to be as clear as one could possibly ask for in this matter. No ifs ands or buts.
Plus, we do not "forbid" women from being ordained...that is not our position. We simply do not recognize that any authority has been given to us to ordain women. Without this power, it is presumptuous to simply go ahead and ordain because the feminist fad screams at us to do so. Ideologies do not judge the Church, the Church judges ideaologies.
DelendaEstCarthago1 2 years ago
@DelendaEstCarthago1 And yet, and do correct me if I am wrong, it was a woman that God chose to be the bearer of the Incarnation, in essence the first minister of the sacraments. And, I'm going out on a limb here, that same woman initiated Jesus's ministry. And wasn't it women that first declared the Resurrection?
steakman1989 2 months ago
" A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 2:11-12
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35
checkthisout732 2 years ago
@checkthisout732 So, at a Passover, there were no women present? What world do you live in. Oh, that's right. The ROMAN world. It would be UNTHINKABLE in the Jewish world to have only adult males present. In fact, it would make the passover invalid.
john62718hd 1 year ago
@john62718hd What the Bible says I believe and the bible states that none of the of the female followers of Christ were present at the first dedication
checkthisout732 1 year ago
@checkthisout732 And yet it was a woman that brought forth the Incarnation, and thus a woman that became the first minister of the sacraments.
steakman1989 2 months ago
@bow1964 100% agree with you!
Hkepfer 1 year ago
@bow1964 Except that there are. Minor detail to consider.
steakman1989 2 months ago
This is the true Anglican Church.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago 3
stolen traditions from the Roman Catholic Church
choirboy526 2 years ago
not stolen fool. but kept. since the Anglican Church, along with its Roman and Eastern Orthodox counterparts, form the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
amrascarpathia 2 years ago 2
@dacatholicbandorgan Unfortunately only 1/100,000 of the Anglican Churches are like this.
TheSecretHarp 2 months ago
what colour are these vestments?
praestitis 2 years ago
I hope so too Delenda, but may'be only when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven
TrainmasterCurt 3 years ago
una mujer acolito???? ornamentos postconciliares??? al subdiacono aclararle q al pasar delante del altar se hace genuflexion aunque no se haya consagrado aun
delomehor 3 years ago
Is that a woman "minister" with the thurible?
slicerprime 3 years ago
The woman with the thurible appears to be an acolyte, not a minister.
dank1280 3 years ago
This is not so. "Acolyte" is part of minor orders, forbidden to women. Since she aids at the altar, she could only be called an extraordinary minister of the altar.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
In the Anglican tradition, we no longer have minor orders. Thus St Thomas's has an "Acolytes' Guild." The acolyte to the left of the thurifer (from the viewer's perspective) is actually studying for the priesthood at a nearby theological college.
lockerby 3 years ago
Truly informative!
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
"not valid"? Well, maybe not to Romans, but for Anglicans, perfectly valid. Married Anglican priests have become married Roman priests; the Orthodox marry. At one time, Rome spread a large umbrella, wide enough to shelter a diversity of practice. Throught the ages, many a Christian has canonically received all seven sacraments.
valej0099 3 years ago
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hahaha? valid???? anglican? my god. i hope so they understand the meaning of the 7 sacraments. they just make a lot of reason just to hide the truth.... try to think why until now marriage should be separate from priesthood simply they offer their lives to the lord. if they want to get married, theres nothing wrong but they have to leave the priesthood and be a lay servant. .....
Jofangs 3 years ago
That is so stupid Jofangs, what you said!! Eastern Orthodox priests get married, Eastern CATHOLIC priests, whom are still under rome, get MARRIED.. Its only the latin rite who prohibited marriage with NO canonical grounds.. get educated before you bash people..
PS: I am not anglican
lukamamatoto 3 years ago
The Church speaks in the name of Christ and so has the right to form Church law as it sees fit. It is not for you to sit in judgment over the Church. Furthermore, clerical celibacy is a long-standing tradition which goes back to the time of the Apostles. The medieval decree merely formalized it and made it a standard.
DelendaEstCarthago1 3 years ago 2
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What I can say is that Anglican and Episcopalian masses are not valid.... Married priests? its just like they did not make any promise to the lord. Roman Catholic priests promise to be single and married to the church. Anglican? Henry 8? Oh my... God bless you all.
Jofangs 3 years ago
Celebacy is not intrinsic to the priesthood. To say that marriage in any way impedes a man from being validly ordained is nonsense. Many Eastern Catholic and Orthodox priests are married. Clerical celebacy is merely a practice of the Roman Church, albeit an important one.
The Anglican Church is wrong on many, many doctrinal issues. Married priesthood is not one of them since it is not a doctrinal issue.
- A faithful (Roman-rite) Catholic
CanCatholic 3 years ago 4
@CanCatholic In the east, only celibate priests can be bishop.
forestking19 1 year ago
Clearly you've never head of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church which have PLENTY of married priests. For better or for worse, but they're there, and allowed to be there, and shall continue to be there.
AFaithfulServant 3 years ago 3
Check out Father Carmel homilies on youtube for an excellent explanation of incensing altar before Communion. Great homily also. Thank you!
brendancouldsail 3 years ago
when we return to tradition its easy the reconciliation. AD FONTES FRATRES.
Pray for the unity of christians in TRUTH & LOVE
An Orthodox Brother.
nikos261175 3 years ago
Amen and Amen!
A Catholic Brother.
DelendaEstCarthago1 3 years ago
Trully the truth. May I also say Amen to that.
An Anglican Brother
amrascarpathia 2 years ago
When I say 'almost identical to protestants', I am basing that on poll after poll. I would further argue that being intellecutally honest is more difficult than anything. Blind faith is easy. Reaching into your own soul, conscience and intellect is painfully difficult. I must say though, your comment " I would be carefull (sic) when criticising me my friend" strikes me as neurotic. Are you entertaining delusions of grandeur? Please go get some help. I'll pray for you.
dsindc 3 years ago
Fundamentalist Christian churches like Pentecostals, Evangelicals and Charismatic's pushing their message on a scale never before seen in their huge mega-churches and TV Christian rock shows. Using tactics such as working and encouraging the crowd participation. Relying on the euphoria and excitement to win people over claiming its the 'holy spirit' within them. Receiving so called 'gifts' such as talking in tongues. Traditional Churches cannot compete with them.
macromeat 3 years ago
Traditional Catholic truth will always in the end be true, not like fundamentalism and 16 century innovations by men, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, ours is a Gospel of self-sacrifice and humility, not the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" which contradicts the Apostolic Way. I am an Anglican (Anglo-Catholic), and The Church was in Britain before any Roman Catholic came in the 7th century, it was brought to Britain by St.Joseph of Arimathæa when he planted his staff in Glastonbury
TrainmasterCurt 3 years ago 15
I pray that our dear Anglican brothers and sisters would one day unite with us, the Holy Catholic Church, in its mission to bring the light and truth of Christ to the ends of the Earth. May God bless you.
DelendaEstCarthago1 3 years ago 3
@TrainmasterCurt Hear, Hear!
Hkepfer 1 year ago
@TrainmasterCurt British Israelism is what that Anglican argument sounds like to me. P.S. no such persons as women priests
comrade1789 5 months ago
Thankfully, in the long run, it is not about competition. It is about truth. Sooner or later, these man-made heresies will fall away and the One True Church shall continue to herald the glory of Christ unto the end of time.
DelendaEstCarthago1 3 years ago
Now, let's continue your studies. The documents of Vatican II stated clearly that Anglicanism was NOT protestant- it carried too many (even in their skewed eyes) marks of the historic faith. Roman catholics have always had a strange sort of love-hate relationship with the Anglican church. I suspect this is a fruitless effort, and that you're a bit delusional. Were you one of the Magdelene sisters? I would conclude by looking at what Anglicanism has produced, and the Roman church (CONT)
dsindc 3 years ago
For a church to remain true to the faith, it must address truth as it comes into clearer focus. Not too long ago, the roman catholic church was burning people at the stake for proclaiming the sun the center of the universe. I suspect you may envious of Anglican liturgy. The last time I attended a rc "mass", it was Ascension day. The introit? "I'm leaving on a jet plane". Pathetic. I hope you're not a priest. If you are, hands off the little boys. What a damaged church.
dsindc 3 years ago
Are you a Christian? If you are that comment was not christian. If the catholic church is damaged, then your church is crumbling before all our very eyes. protestantism is going to be like a sneeze..here and gone all at once. Ever heard of henry VIII
cks125 3 years ago
Oh, cks125.. poor thing. Where to start. Ever heard of Mary I? Archbishop Thomas Cranmer? To quote Riddley "Cranmer was tried for treason and heresy when Mary I came to the throne. Imprisoned for over two years and under pressure from the Church authorities, he made several recantations and reconciled himself with the Catholic faith. However, on the day of his execution, he dramatically withdrew his recantations and died as a martyr." Mary I successed to the throne after Henry VII. (cont.)
dsindc 3 years ago
after Henry VIII. He did not "found" the Anglican church. The bishop of Rome tried to kill reform theology, and as was so common, literally tried to kill its leaders- Cranmer being the first. It was too late though. The seeds of the break had been sown. I had to laugh at your bizarre comment asking me if I was Christian? MY comments are not Christian? Excuse me, please read your comments made one day ago. Rather hateful I'd say, not to mention horribly written "ordacity" (sic). LOL.
CONT.
dsindc 3 years ago
The Anglicans have given the world Churchill, Roosevelt, Desmond Tutu, etc. The roman catholic church? Ummm, Hitler, Mussolini, Ratzinger. Oh, yeah, he was "forced" to serve in the Wehrmacht. You slam protestants, but compare Ratzinger with Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran theologian. He was hanged on a meat hook for opposing the Nazis. You will have to do some research since you don't have much of a grasp of history. If you're another closeted gay catholic, just come out and get it over with. fini.
dsindc 3 years ago
Again, and again...you are wrong. I have a great understanding of history. Protestantism ndoesnt loike a hard life when it ciomes to faith in god...your church is a pick and mix church...youl have all the fancy vestments and prayers, but not the hardship that comes with it. I would be carefull when criticising me my friend.
cks125 3 years ago
First of all, I have suggested ad nauseam that intellectual honesty is profoundly important. "protestantism...is a pick and mix church". You have not heard the expression "cafeteria catholics"? The truth is that roman catholics hold position on religion, sexuality, birth control, etc. almost identical to protestants. I would argue those 'free churches' not defining themselves as protestant are the ones that take what you call the hard road, the pentecostals, many baptists, etc. (cont)
dsindc 3 years ago
I cant stand Anglo-catholic masses. You split from us, and have the ordacity to copy what the old Catholic mass does. Go and worship your Rowan Williams or something..leave the old rite alone for us catholics. Its not valid and go back to your women priests and bishops.
cks125 3 years ago
And I can't stand pedantic little rants like yours cks125. A step further, I can't stand the pass given the roman church over issues like child molestation. Why hasn't Cardinal Bernard Law been extradited from Vatican City for his complicity in so many abuse scandals? Oh, now that I think of it, I also really dislike intellectual dishonesty, or perhaps a total lack of intellectual activity. You make lots of unsubstantiated claims that only a poorly educated roman catholic would make. (cont)
dsindc 3 years ago
You assume that Rome controlled things from the beginning. This is part of roman catholic mythology. The mass rose organically in the Christian church over many centuries and took many forms. The Eastern church would I suspect, take issue with your specious reasoning here too. Anglicans reject the authority of the bishop of Rome, not catholicism per se. The roman catholic church remains a bastion of reactionary theology and as a result it has lost Europe. (cont. above one more time)
dsindc 3 years ago
I must follow up my last comment with the comment that some Angl-Catholic parishes are very solid. The sad thing with the Anglican Communion today (at least in North America) is that you cannot pressume orthodoxy. This is why I left and became Catholic. It saddens me greatly to see what they have done to Anglicanism.
Carthusian14 3 years ago
Do not be fooled by todays Anglo-Catholics. They might be traditional in liturgy, but many parishes adhere to very untraditional teachings. For example, my local Anglo-Catholic Church has inscense, latin and the BCP but does blessing ofsame sex marriages. I would much rather have a guitar at a Catholic Mass and know the teachings are sound than pretty vestments and music and know that I am being fed heresy.
Carthusian14 3 years ago
I want to go to your local AC church! Sounds fab!
lockerby 3 years ago
Well auctually thease came from the Roman Catholic Church. Try the Roman Catholic Tridentine Mass (one that is recognized by Rome mind you), much more sollemnity.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
Sadly, the Catholic Church has the least solemn services nowadays. The Novus Ordo mass at any given parish ranges from decent to banal (most leaning towards banality).
holubian 2 years ago
Well if you go to the Tridentine its a whole differnt world. I would encourage you to find one (recognized by Rome as valid) and go to one.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
Now thats strange. A woman participating in a Tridentine mass..
kingofcelts 3 years ago
Why do Anglo-Catholics use women altar servers/acolytes? It seems inconsistent with their traditional stance on things. It seems very out of place...especially with an all-male clergy.
MuffinMojo 4 years ago
There are female altar servers within the Roman Catholic church too despite an all male clergy.
libertyguy23 4 years ago
Well yes, but not at TLM parishes, only the really modern ones. This liturgy seems to be the Anglican equivalent of the TLM, so it seems out of place.
MuffinMojo 4 years ago
The form of the Mass is quite traditional but many Anglo-Catholic parishes in England are fairly middle of the road, politically and don't object at all to lady priests. The only REALLY conservative ones are Forward in Faith. They are the most up the candle in the Anglican Communion, anyway.
padsley 3 years ago
Because there's no reason not to, and Anglo-Catholics don't necessarily copy everything from Roman Catholic churches. A prominent Anglo-Catholic parish in NYC will have Presiding Bishop the Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori as celebrant tomorrow evening for Solemn Mass on the Feast of the Annunciation.
scottknitter 3 years ago
She holds it right, but she lowers it on every swing, it should be head level on every swing, the other guy holds it too close
TrainmasterCurt 4 years ago
The thurifer looks as though he is throwing the discus at the olympics. Anglican Masses look like Catholic masses and vice versa in England. The subdeacon is very fidgety, however the atmosphere is nice. The vestments are green. Someone must be colour blind.
edymull 4 years ago
Maybe the color on my monitor is messed up, but the vestments look gray to me--a non-liturgical color. Are they actually some other color that I'm not seeing?
Also, I love the collars on the servers' albs.
apollodorus85 4 years ago
They look green to me...Maybe it is just the monitor?
eyt444 4 years ago
Type in "Easter 2006 Opening Hymn" and watch. Now THAT is how you swing a censer :). we don't use incense in the Methodist Church but i wish we did...it's such a beautiful picture of prayer and covering each other in prayer.
kensingtonpalace 4 years ago
She thurifers like a girl.
Judge373 4 years ago
The term is "censes".
Just as the crucifer doesn't "crucifer" or "crucify".
hongbao 2 years ago
This is a stunningly beautiful church and the Mass is always celebrated beautifully. I often wonder why certain Anglo-Catholic elements such as the Asperges me Domine, the Angleus and the stations of the cross are missing at this church. Nonetheless it is a beutiful place to worship.
negdam 4 years ago
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more religous superstitous nonsense. This harks back to the mid 14th century when it was though that smoke cleansed the air of the plague. the stench of the rotton bodies was disguised but burning incense has no cleansing properties. The Church is a joke that has suckered you all.
marsonabike 4 years ago
No, incense is a part of the ancient worship of the Hebrews. We Catholics have inherited this from them, no Middle Ages in it. Try reading the Old Testament where incense was to be used in the temple. It is a symbol of our prayers rising to God.
troymalcolmduker 4 years ago
it's really not superstitous cuz no one believes it "does" anything...it's just a physical picture of prayer and worship.
kensingtonpalace 4 years ago
Also it smells nice.
apollodorus85 4 years ago
lol..yes it does. we don't use incense in our Methodist Church but i wish we did, i've seen it used in Catholic and Anglican services and for some reason it has a worshipful effect on me.
kensingtonpalace 4 years ago 3
very nice.The thurifer's swings seem a bit exaggerated to me, but other than that,beautiful.
servorumdei 4 years ago
Nice video, i go to St.Michael and All Angels Winnipeg
TrainmasterCurt 4 years ago
Fabulous!
ddelray 4 years ago