New Hampshire Liberty Forum - Keynote Speaker: Stefan Molyneux from Freedomain Radio (Part 1)

[MKeyserSoze]

They always pass the buck and say "yes, *I* will allow you to, but *they* won't..." What to do then?

[TheFrygar]

Loopy logic. At the point someone says, "Yes, I think we should imprison people that are selling illicit drugs to children", we see that your argument doesn't work. So you'd fall back on some notion that children accidentally falling into swimming pools should be handled the same way as people selling illicit drugs. Rather than have the philosophical conversation about whether or not imprisoning people for certain things is good or bad, you'd walk away, citing a metaphorical "gun" was pulled.

[chrisrugh17]

You want excellent? Mixing humor with serious topics and talking with the audience instead of to the audience, kept everyone involved. Try to contact speakerchrisrugh, c0m. Can speak at for press, media, shows, conventions, business events, inspirational events, and of course your event.

[EscapingLeviathan]

Well I have been doing this before I heard about but never had any success with it here in Sweden. People usually eventually end up in that they have right to force me to pay. It is never they alone that have the right though, it is the state cause of social contract or the majority or some other collective they make up that have a right to force me to pay. They have no sense of individualism and individual responsibility so it drips of..

[RuddODragonFear]

@EscapingLeviathan That is good. This means you have identified potentially violent individuals to eject from your life.

[emmazedbend]

There is always someone out there willing to use violence not just the state unfortunately.

[LordAgonis]

somebody needs to tell that first lady what an anarchist is...

[LordAgonis]

i'm glad you moderated a little to include constitutionalists and the like for this talk. very well done, sir. you continue to impress me.

[rmcc0002]

phil collins.. lol .. classic stef line..

[kokopelli314]

I'm hoping that one day Stef will debate me, or someone else, fairly well read and experienced on the functional aspects and comparative benefits of a stateless society in a global community.

[stefbot]

@kokopelli314 I do a call in show every Sunday, 4pm EST, I'd love to debate, just drop by the chat room on my web site to be included...

[kokopelli314]

@stefbot

Thank You Stef.

I'll check out your site for details

cheers!

[GlobalMafiaWatch]

@kokopelli314 you dont stand a chance

[kokopelli314]

If we supported leaders on a foundational basis, as Stef suggests, then who would stop Pat Robertson from waging atomic war against unbelievers? He, and other populist leaders certainly have obedient followers. The whole point of nationalism was to diffuse violent regionalism. Certainly, we want to move beyond that and the nation-state.

[OldSmellyCrotch]

If nothing else, the film "Signs" has given "shills", "trolls" and "statists" a derogatory term to use against me just by hinting at foil and its ability to be fashioned into head-wear.

Excellent seminar. Miss you not being on Marc's radio show.

[Bound4NH]

Have I been a Free Stater too long when I recognize a dozen people in the audience without having met them in person?

Shout-outs to Dale, Varrin, Brian, Sandy, Kate, "Hagrid", etc., etc.,...

[robertarian]

Does anyone know which call-in show he uses the against-me argument regarding the surge as referenced in this video?

[stefbot]

Ooo! I do! I do! 1088.

[robertarian]

Oh, you mean the one with "the surge in Iraq..." in the description? That one? *facepalm* ... I need some coffee.

[robertarian]

By the way, thank you :D

[OldSmellyCrotch]

Swat!!!

[BlueRaven89]

I used this approach to someone I was arguing with via email and he never responded back. lol

[wait887]

awesome

[MaikUniversum]

@BlueRaven89 he shot made a suicide with his gun :D

[israelandersonvideo]

Hey, kid in the bright red sweater, go sit the f down.

[mcphilthy]

Just as inspiring on the 2nd viewing!

[metal87power]

I know it's stupid, but he is similar to B. Mussolini.

These body, these head and others things.. :D

[yournaturalbest]

wow

[Anon1696]

39:57 - 40:04

ZING!

[waksibra]

Would anyone care to answer me how libertarianism is actually going to work? I'm just trying to understand.

[stefbot]

Sure, I have a bunch of free books and podcasts on my web site... :)

[waksibra]

Got a good video about law/anarchy and the role of the state/police? As you see below, I just fell into your "tyrant- trap " (which I somewhat respect) the last time I tried to understand it.

Anyway, could you give me a link? Thanks :)

[stefbot]

Sure, look for 'The Stateless Society'...

[leadcreator]

google "the stateless society"

[waksibra]

Thanks :)

[sonofagunM357]

48:45

[larma7]

I wish you could come to my high school and speak, lol . . . Not even to speak about anarchy, but just as a speaker.

You'd kick the shit out of most of the speakers they have come in to talk to us.

[adammcg2]

But Stef your argument only extends so far. I mean if you disagree that the right to life is essential and murder is wrong, I think I should be able to use force to stop you from murdering people. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[stefbot]

I quite agree with you, that is not the essence of my argument... :)

[zonsb]

If a person understands they can't shoot or inflict violence against a pot smoker, what they can't lawfully do themselves they can't hire a thug (government agent) to do on their behalf.

Lawful is not the same as legal. An unlawful act is the initiation of force, threat of force or fraud against a person and or their property.

Legal is any policy that two or more people agree to and doesn't commit an unlawful act. An illegal act is one that violates the terms of the contract/agreement.

[chriswroads]

Stefbot you have a body. All this time i just assumed you were a talking head.

[DeeperBlueX16]

lol!

[R0BKenyon]

I love this guy.

Check out his free books on his website subscribe to his podcast (consider donating some money!) and learn about real freedom.

Thanks Stefan! Your words and perspective is superfood for the soul.

[waksibra]

I'm new to this liberitarianism thing, and I still don't understand how you are actually going to make it world. The idea is great, I agree with that, but how could it possible work with all the idiots out there?

[stefbot]

It certainly is a challenge, but the first step is to get the truth out, wouldn't you agree?

[waksibra]

Sure. But what's the next step? How do you prevent people from misusing their liberty? I live in a socialist country myself, and I don't see the state as a problem. Guns (for example) are not allowed and so the police does not have to wear guns neither. Yes, this might be a violation of our freedom, but I don't mind. - At least I don't need to fear being shot.

I would really appreciate if you could make a video about how you would prevent people from misusing their liberty.

[i2aymond]

There can be no such liberty to use a gun to take away a gun.

Your police must be really persuasive.

[hugonz]

What do criminals use to perpetrate their crimes in this country you talk about?

[waksibra]

they use weapons, but more rarely guns than in countries where guns are allowed. The benefit of people not being allowed to wear guns is that if a robber does use a gun, he can feel pretty sure nobody will try to stop him -> and so he does not shot anyone during the robbery (usually). Guns not being allowed saves lives, although it does restrict our beloved freedom. - A necessary evil I think.

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

You treat human beings as though they were numbers to be managed by a God-king, and I object deeply to that on an ethical, an aesthetic and a logical basis.

Say I own a gun, for no reason that you could discern. Say further that I'm a reasonably enlightened person, with a clear conscience, a reputation for trustworthiness and no history of initiating violence against others. Would you want me shot, or locked away to rot and be raped, for owning that gun? Would you, personally, pull the trigger?

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

Previous comment distracted at waksibra and his "gun control as necessary evil"-post. Damn YouTube and it's buggy, counterlogical interface!

[waksibra]

What are you talking about?:S

If you own a gun that you are not allowed to own, you would probably get a fine. Relax:p what do you think I am?

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

And why precisely is it that I would pay that fine? We both know that I would, and that it would not be because I believe it just that I do so. How do we know this?

What would happen to me if I did not? And what would happen if I refused to appear in court afterwards? If I defended my person with proportional force against those who came to kidnap me?

This escalation continues until I surrender or until I die. Sir, I contend that fines work only because they imply the unspoken threat of murder

[waksibra]

Because you were doing something illegal. If you do not pay the fine, I suppose the other option would be to do some minor jail time.

Fines imply the unspoken threat of murder? wow, what country do you live in? That's outrageous. Fines work because people would rather obey the law than pay a fine.

Would you really want to live in a country where everyone wears weapons or a country where it's illegal? I certainly feel much safer with guns not being allowed.

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. Because the way I figure, I have the choice between two basic options.

1) Submission. At some point, I can do what the authority is telling me to. I can refrain from getting the gun, I can get rid of it before it's found, I can pay the fine, I can appear in court, or I can let myself be kidnapped.

2) Murder. At no point do I choose the first option. I am killed for my refusal.

Because people do not want 2), they choose 1). Therefore, most fines are paid.

[waksibra]

I still don't get how you can say that you will be murdered. I the police comes to arrest you, they will do so with force if you don't cooperate, yes, -but what makes you think they will at some point kill you? They might put you to the ground an handcuff you, but kill you?

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

If I actually let them get me on the ground, or into another position where they can subdue me, then I've submitted. The alternative is to defend my person and property with force, as I would against any other kidnapper. At no point would they cease the escalation of violence against me, until I had submitted or until I was dead.

And if I'm going to submit anyway, then I'm much better off doing so by not getting a gun, or by paying the fine. Does this explain my point to your satisfaction?

[waksibra]

I finally understand your point, and I agree that it is a good and interesting one.

Nevertheless, I can't see how in the world a society could work with that extent of liberty. Fines are a necessary evil, because so many people are evil/stupid (will commit crimes) . I just don't think mankind is ready for this sort of freedom.

If it were, or if it ever will be, I don't think we would be arguing over guns.

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

But you stand by the point that you advocate and will continue to advocate this use of force against me, regardless of its ethical content?

[waksibra]

Yes, absolutely. It's a necessary evil. It's a much better alternative than to letting a person disobey the law and owning a item designed to take lives.

In real life, you would be forced to submit long before any lives were lost, so it sounds a lot worse than it really is.

Do you really feel safer with your own ideology than with mine? Would you view it as a good thing if everyone owned a gun and took the law into their own hands?

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

That's everything I needed to know. I'm now convinced that this exchange of ours is not a debate, but a farce. You do not seek to exchange preferences or ethical and logical arguments with me, but would rather force me at gunpoint to submit to your will, and that is absolutely evil. You, Sir, are a hubristic, hypocritical and contemptuous tyrant. My mere continued conversation with you lends you credibility that you do not deserve, and I will have nothing more to do with you. Good day.

[waksibra]

I wasn't trying to debate, but to learn about libertarianism and its arguments. Could you at least tell me what the alternative is?

I didn't say you were supposed to submit to my will, but the will of the democracy. Would you have total anarchy just because having laws and rules in a society might at some points affect all of our lives negatively?

[stealthswimmer]

problem with democracy is 50% +1 can win a vote and impose their will on the other people. In the marketplaces, multiple people get to have what they want. People can buy green ties, blue ties, red ties, etc.

Anyways, thing is I ain't an anarchist but a minarchist. I think government is a necessary evil and from a pragmatic view...even if we do eventually get rid of the government, it ain't gonna happen overnight so we gotta takes steps in the meantime to scale it back.

[blueprophet9]

Small government always gets bigger/stronger, not smaller/weaker. I agree, people need to get weened off...but eventually, for a better tomorrow, the bad seed has to be thrown away.

[stealthswimmer]

agreed for the most part....I'm not so sure it'd work but it's definitely a nice goal to have.

I keep leaning towards anarcho-capitalism, but my uneasiness about the pragmatic side of it relegates me to minarchism, lol. I just haven't heard ppl bring up successful lawless societies or even societies that had the law fully provided by the private sector.

[blueprophet9]

Hahaha, I actually get it about the pragmatic aspect of it all...but no society has applied anarchism yet, so we just don't know. Should definitely give it a go though. :- )

[OptikNerv1138]

I like the "minarchist" term and I agree with the idea of vastly scaling back government. But NEITHER major party wants that..so that leaves me voting third party...and third parties are shut out by the media and the system. So who can really 'take steps' to scale it back when we have absolutely no voice? We are taxed, the large corporations are represented.

[stealthswimmer]

as for "that leaves me voting third party" I think that's kind of collectivist thinking in a way. Not everyone within each party agrees on everything. I think it's fine voting for a libertarian who happens to be in the Democratic or Republican party.

Other than that, it's nice voting the right people into office but that is just a short-term thing. We also gotta make it politically profitable for even the wrong people to do the right things by getting voters to agree with us.

[blueprophet9]

WAKSIBRA didn't even watch this upload I'm sure. That was too easy.

[chicalleje]

Waksidra just wanted to learn more about your point of view, he didn't deserve such and answer, he wasn't debating, just trying to learn. I hope you don't talk like this to everyone who is willing to get into anarchy of free society. He just wanted to know why you would feel safer in a place where enevyone could have guns and are free to use them if they think they have a moral right to do so or they are just insane or evil.

Sorry for my english

[chicalleje]

my coment was a response to PanzerDivisionBOM, sorry. Here again:

Waksidra just wanted to learn more about your point of view, he didn't deserve such and answer, he wasn't debating, just trying to learn. I hope you don't talk like this to everyone who is willing to get into anarchy of free society. He just wanted to know why you would feel safer in a place where enevyone could have guns and are free to use them if they think they have a moral right to do so or they are just insane or evil.

[chicalleje]

Is not obvious why a free society will be more peacefull than a socialist dictatorship with no-guns laws. But if you know that freedom is toked away from people to make them safe, and that violence is used to make them safe, and that they can't choose other methods to reduce crime to a minimun, they are force to do what they were told, THEN I will preffer to live ina place where everyone could have guns and find other ways to solve the crime problem, like fight it's causes.

Sorry for my english

[blueprophet9]

Exactamundo!!! I don't want to pay or stay, they must force me. It's a numbers game, they are many and you are one(weep alone as such), so you must defend with a weapon...meaning they will pull theirs, and you are dead. Submit or die.

Unspoken threat of murder...you nailed it.

[hugonz]

Hi. It's like all these aspects that we handle or are handled for us in our daily lives.. like... how are we going to have an information society with all those moros who know nothing about bit or bytes? Answer: the division of labor.

[Skobrin]

Fap fap fap

[Jmac8908]

Flawless!  I'm glad I decided to subscribe!

[dinkolino2]

there are people in the audience better than you, stefan :)

[MandrikSG]

Well done, Stefan. I've been showing friends this video and it's gotten a great reaction so far. They especially like the part where you talk about unveiling the good as evil. It's so true and is the best way to describe what we're trying to do.

Thanks again, Stefan!

[stefbot]

Thanks, and thanks for sharing the talk!

[sombrerocoder]

anyone who yes to the against me arguement is not worth arguing with

[a012345]

Nice video Stef. You're the "Phil Collins" of philosophy.

[Textra1]

"Nice video Stef. You're the "Phil Collins" of philosophy."

No need to insult the man.

[Michaelfreakincombs]

Hey, he does kinda look like Phil Collins =P

[a012345]

It's not an insult. He even jokes about it in the video.

[datalorez]

Great video.

And I must say, this is one of the highest quality videos i've seen on youtube. Very crisp high framerates.

[TheStig000]

Stefan is awesome. I loved this talk.

[newgtguy]

Great video. I will be watching more than once.

If someone advocates the use of force against you for disagreeing with them, aren't they creating a master/slave relationship?

If so, my next question is "Do you advocate slavery?"

What is your take Stefan?

[newgtguy]

BTW - that's my next question to them... :)

[lemonjello77]

Finally! I've been waiting for video of this for sometime now. ^_^

[Mattprole]

Nice to see you interact with an argument; very good at communicating ideas wih just the right amount of humor.

[freemarketeer67]

I see my brother in the front row. Great speech!!

[Freemarketeer81]

Nice username =)

[xelenty]

Great stuff Stef.. And thanks Loonie,, good mix.. :)

[waksibra]

socialism ftw :)

[aarythmic]

So great to see Stef interacting with a group, and doing such a great job.

[mcphilthy]

Bravo!

[timthednov5]

Great job man

[eflonmusic]

totally awesome! :) you're such a great speaker!

[bunabayashi]

Finally! Awesome speech Stef!

[Alexlaird87]

first