Queue Diskbuild 16 3 part2

[slinky460]

Q, too bad things turned out the way they did. I think you had a nice set up and thanks for the demo. Slinky

[slinky460]

Q I think you are on the right track. Mylow's motor did not look all that hard to replicate. However, like a lot of things that look simple, they may not be. What I have found is many simple things can be the hardest to try to figure out. Complex things can be broken down and inspected in sections and then once figured out, put back together. In Mylow's motor, there is not much to go on.

Like you say, get it to work first, figure out how it works later. BTW, your camera is just fine.

[petrov2500]

QueueContinuum:

Why don't you spin it with out the overhead magnet and then spin it with the magnet to see if the spin lasts longer?

[QueueContinuum]

petrox2500

Thx .. We already know the stator produces drag as the aluminum disk moves by it. You can feel the eddy currents produced by the moving plate when holding a magnet close over it.

The purpose of all this is an attempt to replicate Mylows disk results and to find if possible a rotor-stator config that self sustains and NOT to prove there is drag produced by the stator. If i were trying to prove there is drag the tests would have concluded in the very first video.

[slinky460]

One of the problems I have noticed is that your camera is stationary. I think any real free energy device must be shown in a shaking video that pans in and out every three seconds so you can't tell whats going on. I thought you need to know this as this could be holding you back from your goal of a working magnetic motor. Anyway, keep up the good work!!

[webdev1234]

I don't know much about magnet is any other than a a normal layman & I don't know if this has been discussed , but how about adding the same Magnet as is on the top bar on the other side? Would that not move the magnets the other direction too ? I would think that would be logical.

[slinky460]

Q, I am not sure to who your comments are directed to, but Mylow agreed with HJ that symmerty don't work. I think this is why Mylows motor seems to work. His spacing between sets of magnets looks to have some irregular spacing. I think this could be a key to operation. HJ original picture from the magazine looks simple enough. The rotor was plastic backed with plywood attached to a skateboard wheel. Nothing high tech. But it worked just the same and that is what counts. Keep up the good work!

[slinky460]

Drevtoobe, I think this is the reason you need the gap between the sets of magnets, if I understand you correctly. The magnetic field of each set needs a break so it can coast through and start the next set without getting caught up on the sticking part. Also a larger break between a set at some point may help to break up the closed end effect of the sets. In other words a out of place jump to break up the symmetry of the magnet sets. I think HJ said "symmetry don't work".

[Drevtoobe]

>>> depending on the length of the particular segment and how much momentum it has gained by traversing the array

You were speculating about the forces as you go through a revolution so let me try explaining that to you.

You feel the magnetic attraction or repulsion on your finger as the angle changes. For every degree you feel a different force, in fact it is continuously changing with angle.

[Drevtoobe]

Imagine constructing a real-life model of the force you feel on your finger. Imagine laying a flexible circular track around the circumference of large circle, like a HotWheels track. The steepness of the track is proportional to the repulsion force you feel. You end up with what looks like a roller-coaster track. A single magnet makes a hump, approaching with repulsion you go up the hump, leaving with attraction you go down the hump. The down slope is the famous "sticky spot".

[Drevtoobe]

You can just put this posting under the other posting.

One magnet makes a single hump. You know how you feel repulsion but once the stator magnets are lined up, there is no force. That's the top of the hump. An array of magnets looks about the same, but the top of the hump is flat, but might not be perfectly straight. Add all your arrays and you have the roller coaster track.

Here is the key, ignoring friction, when you go around in a full circle, you come back to the same place, always.

[Drevtoobe]

Just one more.

If you think the magnets are a source of energy, when you make a full circle, you have to end up slightly higher than when you started out. However, the experiments and the mathematical modeling confirm that you always end up at the same place.

When you change the magnet configurations, all that you are doing is changing the look of the roller-coaster track. That's it, nothing more.  The roller coaster track always connects back to itself. Can you visualize this in your mind?

[Drevtoobe]

The roller coaster track is showing you how the magnetic potential energy is changing as you go around the track. When you are at the top of a hump, it's because you pushed the wheel to get there. That pushing, force x displacement, is stored as magnetic potential energy. You can let the wheel "drop" either way down the hump. At the bottom, the wheel is now turning, and the magnetic potential energy has become rotational energy in the disk. Magnetic and rotational energy go back and forth.

[Drevtoobe]

Don't misunderstand the term "magnetic potential energy". That energy came from somewhere else, and is only temporarily stored in the magnetic field depending on the angular position of the rotor. When the disk is spinning the speed variations are due to the exchange of magnetic potential energy with rotational energy, all sitting "on top" of the initial rotational energy in the disk (which came from your hand).

The whole magnet setup is along for the ride, it's not a source of energy itself.

[Drevtoobe]

Now for the big ending: The roller coaster track is actually the line integral that I mentioned in another posting referencing one of Maxwell's equations. When you laid out the track you were actually performing calculus. Maxwell's equation says when you travel around the line integral of a static magnetic field you end up with zero net gain in energy, just like the track has to connect back to itself. The repulsions and the attractions cancel each other out, what goes up must come down.

[QueueContinuum]

At Drevtoobe

Thanks for your explanation on why Mylow's motor should not work .. My replicated motor does indeed seem to abide by what we know of physics but If Mylow is able to get new magnets and get his motor running again THEN someone will need to come up with an explanation as to why it does work which may be WAY more difficult than many think.

Cheers

Q

[slinky460]

Correction, outer working when the inner is not, inner working when the outer is not. I am sure you know what I was saying here, but once you click the button you can not edit it, only remove it. which is odd, but anyway, you could use the same stationary magnet support for both inner and outer magnets. You may have to "lead" the inner ring magnet placement some ahead of the outer one to find the "sweet spot" between the two rings. Rotation direction don't matter, constant operation does.

[slinky460]

How about a second circle of magnets inside the original circle with it's own stationary magnet. The inner circle magnets could be spaced so that they work when the outer circle is not working. (the big space) This way the magnets are working all the time but there is no magnetic interaction between the inner and outer rings. Outer working when the inner is not and inner working when the inner is not. One ring or the other ring is always working to keep the rotor turning at all times.

[slinky460]

Here is something else too. I have seen that some people think that if this type of magnetic motor won't self start, then it is some kind of proof that it don't work. However the internal combustion engine has been around 100 years and needs a starter motor to get going.

I don't think that the self starting or not self starting issue is a big deal as long as it keeps running after starting. Say if it ran a week by itself, and could be reproduced, that should be enough proof in anybodys book.

[slinky460]

Great job! However I think the problem is that you need more weight (mass) to your rotor to carry the magnets past the sticking point. HJ had a 40 lb magnet assembly. I don't think you need 40 lbs but I think there is a rotor weight to magnetic field ratio that has to be found. I would guess that if you added more weight (balanced of course) in the form of say fishing weights to the rotor it would help. In any case it looks like you are on the right track. Keep up the good work!!

[nievesoliveras]

Why dont you include another stator magnet on the opposite end?

[Chase212327]

Queue,

Good to see a new video.

This still looks very promising. It never stopped within a rotor set; just in the large gaps. That's a long ways to glide, to overcome the next new sticky spot.

Are you out of rotor magnets? Is that why you havn't filled in the three large gaps?

Hoping Serling & Mylow can assist too.

Chase212327