According to "historatia" My mother, who was one of the kidnapped by nazis then killed her father a defenceless farmer & enslaved her mother, who cultivated man's need for food & worshipped God, was a "myth"! Try telling that to my Mother. Yet my dear Mother still forgives those that perpetrated these crimes, how I love & admire her!
@divustitus I'll worry about "forgiveness" when the story is VERIFIED. I have only two references with any "NAMES" and PICTURES" With 50,000 returnees WHO THEREFORE KNOW THEIR POLISH AND GERMAN NAMES it must be possible to develop total documentation. WHERE IS IT?
@historatia """I'll worry about "forgiveness" when the story is VERIFIED""" YOU WORRY about yourself! My mother still has nightmares of nazis taking her father out and shots fired with his body falling over,you keep verifying your sheepskins & dreaming about your fantasy feudal estates & how your nazi dreams went up in smoke
@divustitus You needn't worry about forgiveness, none necessary. I don't or dream about an estate in Poland thank you. (I have two places, one in Canada and one in Slovenia, thanks ) Sheepskins? No! goatskins. It was better for writing important archival documents. I question the entire propaganda story. Do you have documented the thousands of stories or not? Where is that information? Does Polish IPN have it? If not, why not. POINT ME TO THAT, not your mother. SHOW ME!!!
@historatia """I don't or dream about an estate in Poland thank you"""Why I thought you were dreaming of your feudal estate in "prussia" with plenty of Polish servants with the ability to only count to 10 & only serve your needs?"""You needn't worry about forgiveness"""--I'm not, none given, but I don't hate germans, that is why I consider my mother & people like her superior to me.""" SHOW ME!!!"""SHOW YOU WHAT? Wanton death & destruction of Poles at gunpoint?
@divustitus No... The records of the 50,000 that supposedly came back afterwards and have doubtless told their stories in many "collections" or "institutes". WHERE ARE THEY? Look at the individual records that surviving Jews have put together. WHERE ARE YOURS??
@historatia Since you allege that you are some sort of "consultant" Why don't you consult with mevedev & putin about their forebears decision to shift Poland's borders, why bother with Poland? Since you've been losing so much sleep over for 66 years, I'm almost sure they'll give a ready ear & if not, a "cool one-way ticket "east" like many of your former countryman....
@divustitus I have worked extensively in Russia, mostly Moscow some well known energy distribution projects. I don't need to as Medvedev or Putin. I know exactly why they did it, and they don't construct some mythology about. The Part of Poland they took with Hitler's help was Czarist holding so it was their sovereingty from 1792, and they re-organized its sovereignties. (more)
@historatia Yes I am glad that you mention the centuries old German-Russian collaboration, Because before that land belonged to the Czar, it belonged to the King of Poland, before it was so shamelessly stolen through German and Russian intrigue during the partitions.
@hague1cameron """old German-Russian collaboration""" isn't it quite a "coincidence" that germans produced poison gas & other large scale weapons production near Samara with the permission of the soviets per the Rapallo Treaty (1922) to circumvent Versailles, then decades later replicated their "prowess" for saddam hussein so he can use german made poison gas on the Kurdish people.
@historatia """those that developed and settled and made a life there"""Those that were invited to settle soon were inviting more than required & demanding more & trying to germanize the "invitors" themselves eventually claiming the territory as their own which they did not have the authority to do
@divustitus I have NO doubt that Poland claims this area as well, as I know it claims much of Western Ukraine as well. Since my view is that sovereignty belongs to those that developed and settled and made a life there, and not some greedy king (Polish or otherwise). The Russians at least acknowlege the truth of it. (I've done the Trans-Siberian already thanks.)
@historatia """You've destroyed the cemetaries, desecrated many churches the places of culture"""Yeah, the ONLY thing nazis left behind of their "culture" in Poland are death camps, which they themselves could not destroy fast enough while making their escape for fear of the retribution to come....
@historatia You do? in that case you will be glad to know that they have "developed and settled and made a life there", so I suppose using your own criteria the Poles do have a right to that area of the western Ukraine.
@historatia """Since my view is that sovereignty belongs to""" According to a prior post of yours,you stated that the militarily victorious are the ultimate arbiters, typical "chameleoniac historatian" mentality...goebbels could have used you, you were born too late. What else does Poland claim? What else does "historatia" claim?
According to "historatia" Hans Frank NEVER said "that he will run out of paper for signing death warrants in his "kingdom general"- Hitler NEVER said that his is the "last" territorial demand after munchen1938--Himmler NEVER said that a Pole must only know how to count to "10" & his(Pole) existence is only justified to serve germans
@divustitus You are MISQUOTING ME Divu. I have never commented on Hitler's saying or not saying that this was his last "territorial demand". His demand for Danzig was NOT territorial. He demanded that it be allowed to rejoin and was prepared to the PEOPLE vote. It was NOT POLAND'S to GIVE as it was supposed to be a FREE CITY.. I've never even discussed HIMMLER's race policies as you suggest. NEVER. That is YOUR LIE.
@historatia """"I've never even discussed HIMMLER's race policies as you suggest. NEVER"""In reading your diatribes, one can only surmise your "thinking" which are quite evident....
"We Germans, we should never forget that the libertarian movement in the last century, after the terrible wars began in Poland. To Poland we largely owe Europe's unity and the unity of Germany" - said the president of Germany Christian Wulff.
We don't like Psoe no Zapatero in Spain! we have near 5000000 unemployees, bad economy, crimes, disrespect, no money, a divided country, no work, no trades,....we're ruining us!
No more lies! we are fed up! early elections now!
Dear angy, why don't you talk about the deportation of around 15 million germans from poland and czesk republic?? Why do you only talk about german war crimes?? TRAITOR!!! This whore should be executed for treason to germany.
Poor polish, germans treated them badly and they did nothing... poor you... that thing of 10 million deportations and around 2 million death of german civilians by polish and soviet is a lie... Those territories were not with almost totally germans... nahh
@hilletehnoob I know that you are a little short on understanding the historical truth about the 1930's, that is only slowly emerging. The expulsions and deaths are NOT a lie. (I am one of the expelled, and I know how much of our family was murdered AFTER the war. Either accept the truth or leave it alone for those of us (Polish and German) who understand it, admit it and do accept it. If you start to now twist the truth, -- as many do -- that is a retrograde step.
@historatia what the hell?? 10 to 15 million germans were expelled from silesia,pommerania,east prussia and west prussia,sudetland.
2 million german civilian died(for exemple the at war crimes such as bombing of dresden and others).
was it fair?was it humain?
no, and as polish/russian stole what was not their,the stupid traitor whore of angela merkel shouldn't take any dipomatic relation with poland,many cultures such as pommeranian,prussian and silesia died,it was a cultural genocide.
@hilletehnoob Yes it was cultural genocide (my family's culture) but that is an unwarranted reaction, because it caanot now be rebuilt the same as it was. The Poles did not do this. The Russians did to rearrange things for the need they perceived, and not talking to the Poles (of Russians) accomplishes nothing. The Poles and Russians of today, just like the Germans, have to play the hand of cards that they were dealt. Its not easy for anyone.
@historatia """The expulsions and deaths are NOT a lie. (I am one of the expelled, and I know how much of our family was murdered AFTER the war."""What about nazi monsters murdering,robbing,raping Poles, kidnapping 250,000"untermenschen" Polish babies, attempting to eradicate totally, with your historical partners the russians,Polish national & historical identity for 200 years? What did you expect? Love?
@divustitus Your too full of the propaganda that the communists fed you. During Bismark's day, the Prussia Landtag had Polish elected members, as did parliament of the Reich. The "babies" story is just that divu, a PROPAGANDA FABLE. (like the "soap". You should do a little homework here.. (more)
@historatia ""The "babies" story is just that divu, a PROPAGANDA FABLE""I suppose you will be saying Poles charging tanks is FACT RIGHT? Are the expulsions,enslavements,robberies/confiscations of Poles by nazis and soviets FABLES too? Tell us WHAT REALLY happened to the Polish state & it's citizenry 1939-1945 & go for broke1989? Were they swaying together to an OOMPA-PA "oktoberfest" singing Ach du liebe agustin augustin doing "bruderschafts"??
@divustitus 1. The Germans would NOT have taken Polish Jewish children since they were trying to get if Jewish blood.
2. If there were 250,000 kidnapped children there would he 250,000 parents NEVER giving up to find them. (Remember Argentia's "disappeared??) There has NEVER been a fuss raised by parents of missing children or claims made to Germany! Why not? Because its a HOAX of propaganda. Even the Pilish IPN never turned up anything of the sort.
@historatia "" there would he 250,000 parents NEVER giving up to find them.""" Chances were VERY LIKELY that their(Polish childrens') parents were dead...My mother is one of those "children" who left the germans who "adopted" her because she was a mere slave for their "estate", although she does not hate them, nor do I hate germans..Once again, according to your reasoning military conflict favours the winner, 'nough said....
@divustitus No, not 'nough said. If your mother is "one of those children" than we'll send TV reporters for interviews. As there is with the "wolfskinder" of koenigsberg, there has to be some documentation of this dubious claim. If parents were dead, there are aunts/uncles, and the communist regime would have used it ENDLESSLY for propaganda. The entire story is caught up in an enormous "swindle" with General Jaruzelski's Russian interview at the centre. (more)
@divustitus You should understand that the whole business of the so-called "missing millions" of Poles is finally coming under serious historical investigation after BOTH the Russians and JARUZELSKY (Isvestia interview) admitted the MASSIVE frauds in the population numbers about Poland. The propaganda made the polish population "disappear", but suddenly it reappeared again? (Like Germans killed Poles at Katyn? (more)
@divustitus Please take me to the corroborating references where Hans Frank wrote or said such a thing. (I read parts of the autobio that he wrote UNDER POLISH COMMUNIST SUPERVISIONS IN A POLISH JAIL before he was executed; and ALL of the word-for-word examination of Frank at NUREMBERG). a Polish/German colleague, read some of the diary material in the original German -- US photocopies -- and compared them to the english. (more)
@historatia ""I read parts of the autobio that he wrote UNDER POLISH COMMUNIST SUPERVISIONS IN A POLISH JAIL before he was executed"""Hans Frank was never in Polish custody, he was arrested by the americans. VON DEM BACH had the "Zelewski" officially dropped from his name because it "sounded too Polish" in the early 1930's.
@divustitus You are correct about the Polish Jail. I had that confused with the Nuremberg trial. However, even there, the material that he could write was first censored, in this case by the Russian/Polish unit. The Pole who did the censorship work actually defected at the end and went to the US.
@divustitus Your are also correct about Zelewski, but so am I. He came from a bankrupt Polish "nobility" of Kasubian extraction. His first language was Polish. The fact remains that he was Polish (but apparently not classes as of the "Untermenschen" type although he richly deserved that label.
@divustitus Many falsifications were ADDED in the enlish translations. She was told in Kracow -- researching something else -- that the "differences" were "mistakes" from the translations German-to-Russian -to-Polish -to English, but decided it was sheer deliberate falsification! probably in the Russian version. That incident was the FIRST time she started to have SERIOUS doubts about the whole huge story as Russian propaganda. She still teaches Polish history part time at a UK university.
@historatia"" Don't need "love", just TRUTH""In the realm of human struggle & when a question was posed 2,000 years ago at a famous trial, I ask you also "What is Truth"? Yours or somebody elses?
@historatia ""Germans would NOT have taken Polish Jewish children"" Of course they(nazis) did NOT want jewish kids, they wanted Blonde-haired Blue-eyed "untermenschen" Polish children to turn them into little nazis....
@historatia there certainly were Children that were kidnapped as a means of improving defective German genes according to Himmler. You can educate yourself by reading the following article: Polish children kidnapped by Nazi government
@hague1cameron "Historatia" is fighting the war all over again! He wants to re-write history! There were no german encroachments of Polish land,Poland was only dis-membered for the sake of brotherhood, there were no Slavic tribes as far west as Berlin itself, there were no nazi atrocities in Poland, they (nazis & Poles) were singing & drinking beer, NO stalinists murdered germans, only Poles, NO nazis murdered Poles, Poles only murdered nazis
@hague1cameron According to "historatia" Poland sat at the right hand of Roosevelt Churchill stalin at potsdam & yalta, Poland decided to invade itself,to partition itself, to attempt to wipe out its' own culture & history murder its' citizens, disrupt the peace of the world, to shift its' own borders thereby losing its' eastern frontier & poor "hystericalratia" thereby lost his coveted feudal estate hence his venom & distortions....
@hague1cameron I have read numerous articles making this claim. One says 200,000 taken and 15% came back. Unlike Vad Yashem there is no listing of stories by families of children taken or unaccounted for by birth records. As I explained on another vid (or maybe this one) nothing with Pogonowski's name attached is accepted as reliable information by respected sources. for example, Pogonowski still claims that the killing of Jews by Poles in Jedwabne and many other villages is not true.
@historatia ""Unlike Vad Yashem there is no listing of stories by families of children taken"""NAZIS WANTED ONLY aryan "look-alikes" like my mother to turn into new nazis, not semitic jews...What makes you think nazis wanted jewish kinder herr histo?
@divustitus I've NEVER said that Germans wanted Jewish children. In fact, TO MAKE A POINT, I said that it was bizarre to suggest it. Your story about your mother -- if its true -- can be checked against known information. With a "return rate" of 25% claimed, there must be at least 50,000 returned 'kidnapped children" aged 68 to 80? WHERE ARE THE 50,000NAMES as guys like Pogonowski claim, and where is the PROOF. Why is it not written or not published, why are there not Ph. D. studies?
@historatia """I've NEVER said that Germans wanted Jewish children"""Then why are you saying, in prior posts, they(nazis) took jewish children, do you remember what you write?
@historatia You see your problem is that you see Germany's history in the wrong light. what you don't understand is that Germany is on the wrong side of the ledger. 1st it is a late developer-it only really become a country in 19th century, a few centuries after Poland-so it's a kind of a artificial bastard state. Secondly it always acted to suppress movements towards enlightened in its part of Europe-eighteenth century, by helping to trample on 3rd of may constitution for instance.
Respond to this video... Thirdly, for a long time it was a bastion of religious bigotry and witch burning in the 30 years war etc. By contrast the commonwealth to a large extent practiced religious toleration-was the first in Europe to pass a law of religious toleration. And whilst the Commonwealth always acted as a bulwark against Asiatic despotism, the Germans did everything to undermine that bulwark-since they were the progenitors of European despotism.
Respond to this video...And unlike the Germans the Poles rejected the idea of a divine rule of kings long before. So whilst the Poles practiced early forms of democracy by electing their kings etc-despite the Germans being in a more geographically advantageous position. The Germans moved in the opposite direction. And lets not forget the creme de la creme, the Germans instigated both world wars and as such undermined Europe's standing in the world forever.
Respond to this video...Therefore if one happens to be a believer in the idea of history as the story of human progress, as I happen to be. There is only one conclusion, whilst there have been many brilliant individual Germans-Einstein cannot be considered German Because he was Jewish, and would have been killed had he stayed in Germany, Germany has been a cancer to the European body.
BTW-forgot mention German efforts in undermining Poland's efforts in staving off the Bolsheviks.
Respond to this video...So if you happen to be a rational minded German, there is just no way you can be proud of your country's history. So why is it that the British for instance did so much change the world for the better, and the Germans did so much to change it for the worse? I am not surprised that the Germans feel such reticence in celebrating their country's military and other history, as you can tell by watching my channel the Poles feel no such reticence.
Respond to this video... Because for the most part theirs is a history of bravery and fighting against the odds, with Huns from the east and west. take a look at this video for instance: youtube the following Strzelcy w Zadwórzu Would Germans celebrate in th same fashion? They gave up on the goose step after all.
@hague1cameron Question: What, if anything does this have to do with the Anne Frank story? Why is the story of Alojzy Twardecki put out by the "Jugendgegenungsstaette Anne Frank, and the Deutsch-Polnische Gesellschaft Mainz-Wiesbaden? If you look at their programs (I read/write German) tells you immediately that claiming to be an attempt to "soften stereotypes" of Poles and Germans, the program is totally one that seeks to teach Germans about Poland -- inclusive of Polish myths. (more)
@hague1cameron The journalist who researched the stories told in the book (Kinderschicksale) had absolutely documentation of the "numbers" in, but present case documentations. With the supposed rates of "returnees' there would be TENS OF THOUSANDS of these stories. Where is the direct testimony to verify? IT MUST EXIST. these people are today aged 68 to 80? They KNOW both their German and Polish names. Polish Journalists must have THOUSANDS of write-ups with photos. Where are they???
@historatia correction: the author of Kinderschicksale which included the Alojzy Twardecki case had absoultely NO documentation of the "numbers" of such cases. It only dealt with case documentation.
@historatia So I take it you have read the book? Or are you simply falling back on your default position of good all fashioned German prejudice. Besides why should I do the research for you, you are the one in desperate need of some enlightened. What next? are you going to ask me to prove that the holocaust is real? Why don'y you google: Kidnapping of Polish children by Nazi Germany, and go to the wiki article-it will point you in the right direction.
@hague1cameron The article you pointed me to lead to 're-statements', but nothing more probitive. Probitive to me is SHOW ME THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF COMPILES STORIES as there are so many returnees who SURELY have compiled their stories and published. Where are they? Hard to rely on a translated 1939 letter from some obscure official when there were 50,000 or so returned survivors of this claimed crime. So WHERE ARE THEY.
@hague1cameron No, don't prove the Holocaust. Just show me the compiled record of the thousands upon thousands of returnees who MUST HOVE told their stories, been compiled in dossiers, used for Ph. D. Theses rather than have this whole allegation rest on a couple of translated letters from Himmler's staff in 1939. WHERE ARE THEY STORIES COMPILED AND ANALYZED? (Should be easy for you!)
@historatia """I have worked extensively in Russia, mostly Moscow""" Well then ,what are you waiting for? Why play around moaning & groaning to Poland, voice your concern about the recovered lands straight to the source.Since stalin roosevelt et al are dead you'll have to deal with the "put-med" team
@historatia Dear old boy what you have to learn is that in a court of law proof of intention is everything, so as you acknowledge the 'translated letters from Himmler's staff', demonstrates Mens Rea. like i said before I am not going contact IPN and dig for documents, you can do it yourself.
@historatia 'What celebrations are you talking about?" The ones in the video youtube clip entitled Strzelcy w Zadwórzu. As a way of demonstrating how Poles can allow themselves such displays of commemoration, and the Germans because of their guilty conscience, cannot.
Anyhow, you can see more examples of the Poles celebrating their history on my channel.
My German is for shit, but she was basically just doing the usual political spiel about Poland and Germany being very good partners, working togethor in the European Union, overcoming their crappy history, and having lots of cultural and student exchanges and that sort of thing... along with some mutual political projects, at least that seemed to be the jist of it.
Any reperations have no sense in current times. History is hard to jude. Poles lost their land and Germans did.
In my opinion Germany already paid price for WWII. They paid mostly moral price as some virtual German friend told me it long time ago. All the time young Germans hear "becouse in WWII you were...". These time are gone. We must remember history but not live thanks to her.
I am greatfull that alsow thanks to Germany Poland is now in NATO and EU. Thanks.
In 1939 1.2 Mln Deutsche Jugendlichen hat nach Polen gefahren. Es war eine nette Exkursion.
In tausendjahrige Geschichte beiden Nationen war nur 25-30 Jahren der Freundschaft (nach Novemberaufstand). Es gibt ein wichtiger Unterschied - die Polen wissen viel uber die deusche Kultur, die Deutschen wissen nicht uber die polnische Kultur.
Entschuldung fur meine Sprache. Es ist schlecht, denn ich stamme von dem Nation den Sklaven und Diebe :P
Ach, ich wünschte wir hätten wieder richtige Staatsmänner... Die hätten den Ministerpräsidenten nicht eingeladen! Früher oder später wird Frau Merkel sich für diese Schande und den Hochverrat vor einem Volksgericht verantworten müssen!
The Poles didn't throw them out, it was Germany's great ally Stalin that did, and it seems that the Germans and Russians at that time were like two peas in a pod. It's been Poland's historical misfortune to be located between two countries with no concept of civil liberties.
Right! Blame the Russians! I guess it also was the Russians fault that Poland closed every German school and university after 1918 and broke the Versailles Peace Treaty with that? How about those 58000 Germans that were killed in 1939 in Danzig by Poles? When it comes to the Germans that were thrown out of Poland as well as Czechosolvakia, there are still enough eye witnesses alive, who are able to tell you, how it really was.
1. First of all I should make it clear that the plight of any people is a great tragedy, it does seem to me however, that the allegations that you are making are false and unsubstantiated. Firstly there is absolutely no evidence that would back up your allegations, I' am not denying that undoubted unpleasantness and evil did take place but certainly nothing systematic, which is a miracle considering the lawlessness and situation.
If so much evil happened, why doesn't Poland simply haf the courage to admit what they did? There is no doubt that they disobeyed the Versailles Peace Treaty, which clearly stated that all minorities have to be treated equal, and have a right to their own culture. This is not just a Polish problem it is a Czech problem too. No one is demanding back any lost property, but the Polish government should be at least apologizing. To be honest to you, Poland shouldn't be a member state of the EU!
Your incredible ignorance is only surpassed by you prejudice. You say Poland should not be part of the EU, excluding a country with the first European constitution (3 may 1791), the first education department and the first public library in Europe and the Jagiellonian University built in 1364 which older than any German university, would be a self detrimental exercise. I also forgot to mention Sobiesk,i the Polish king who saved Vienna from the Turks.
Poland as well as the Czech Republic shouldn't be part of the EU, because they haven't apologized to their German victims. I don't think that any nation that ignores its responsiblity in a historical event, is not fit to be part of the EU.
In a way I pity you, having so little for inspiration when looking at your country's history; two world wars created by nothing more than blood lust. You see I think you are falling into the same trap. In WW1 it was Germanys inferiority complex in comparison to countries like Britain that drove them to war, and in the 2nd it was their complex over losing the first, that made them start the second with the same result.
@hague1cameron Wow. I guess the world should bow down to the Poles eh? Your facts are wrong. The oldest GERMAN university is Charles University in Prague, set up in 1348 as a GERMAN speaking university. the Czech language part came much later (at the insistance of the German-speaking students!) By 1500, Germany had SEVEN universities, Italy NINE, Spain FIVE, France SIX, Brits FIVE, and Poland ONE, on which basis you claim ACADEMIC LEADERSHIP? REALLY?
@hague1cameron How could you POSSIBLY FORGET Sobieski. who HELPED (BUT DID NOT ALL ALONE WITH THE SQUADRON) to defeat the TURKS. Was that such a big deal? Poland also claimed with the Miracle of Warsaw to have saved Europe from Communism in 1922 when the Russians had KICKED POLANDS ASS BACK to Warsaw after the Pilsudski led attack on Russia of 1919. You throw the BS pretty well, but go back to the bar. Your ignorance is showing.
@historatia """You throw the BS pretty well""" You throw it pretty well or attempt too, just as goebbels did & all nazi germans..Tell us more! Rokossovsky Polish "leader"? What kind of leader? Rokossovsky in his mind's eye considered himself as Polish as a "balalaika"...
@divustitus I'm neither Nazi nor German, divus, so lets start there. Actually, Rokossosky considered himself a Pole -- and despite the Russian killing of his parents -- became a good communist and was to take over Poland for Stalin. I guess you weren't aware of it. .
@historatia ""for Stalin. I guess you weren't aware of it"". I'm aware of more than you might think.RokossovskY was responsible for the economic"plan" for Poland of the same name which required Poland to "trade with the ussr", to sell Polish material worth 1.00 for .10 ratio, while west germans got the "Marshall Plan" because it was in the best interests of the "west" which betrayed Poland anyhow
@historatia Yes the Poles were the decisive factor in Vienna, and yes if the Poles had lost to the Bolsheviks in Warsaw, than Lenin would have tried to have carried the revolution into Germany-were many of the Germans were awaiting the Russians with open arms. And lets not forget the German fifth Column made up of Germans living in Poland who in may cases actively supported the Bolshevik invasion of Poland-idiots.
@hague1cameron Youi buy all of that propaganda? Did you get it from Norm Davies book? Did you know that his Ph. D. is from a Polish University and he had the intellectual dishonestly to allow his Thesis to be changes becuase "the official history of Poland is that no such war ever occurred". He was denied tenure at Stanford because other historians found is work seriously wanting.
@historatia So your prejudice shows its ugly head, you don't like Polish universities do you? He was denied entry to Stanford because he told the truth about Polish-Jewish relations, and it not follow zionist propaganda.
@hague1cameron The 'substantiation is available in a recently released Dvorackova film clip with the old and young civilian Germans lined up along a road side near Prague and gunned down and the wounded living run over by Red Army Studebaker trucks driven by Czechs. That -- as in Postelberg --killed MORE old German farmers than the entire list of Czechs executed by Hitler's people. You're as ignorant as a cement head.
@historatia I know this might a bit hard for your insular German and self centred mind to fathom, but the Poles are not Czech. On the other hand a lot of Germans were Nazis.
2. Quite frankly, I' am astounded that after the years of German barbarity when the Polish people had the opportunity of revenge they did not take it.
I believe there is no point in continuing this argument since your knowledge is so transparently lacking in the most elementary facts. Seeing as it is that you have been blessed with a head that is emptier than a hermit's address book, there is clearly no getting through to you.
So you don't want to continue this argument, but you are chose to insult me. I have never insulted anyone. I have stated facts, that were right, to my best knowledge. But then of course a 23 year old knows more than a 39 year old. I hope you will live a happy life
I apologize if you're so sensitive, Germans are generally known for their stoicism, let me point out to you that it was you who started making pejorative comments and not me however, it was only me that stuck to the facts and not you, and as a student of history age doesnt come into it, It only proves that you should have been paying more attention when younger.
@hague1cameron Your comment about wars started by German "blood lust" counts as truly one of the STUPIDEST AND MOST IGNORANT JUVENILE INSULTING remarks that can be made. The war did NOT start for that reason.
@historatia The problem with you, is that you are nothing more than a Nazi apologist. On the topic of the 1st War are you familiar with the German destruction of kielce? As well as the suffering that the Germans and Russians inflicted on a country and a Population that wasn't even theirs?
@hague1cameron I know a LOT about all those countries from direct travels, teaching posts in-country research, international negotiations and consulting.
Oh you know what thieves don't have nationality.They are every where ,in every country.As far as history is concerned you stole much more goods from jews and poles,the worth of those things stolen by germans during the war is much bigger than all those cars stolen by poles taken togather.
@hague1cameron You've now become the greatest liar on YT. I was in Schlobitten when the polish Militia arrived after the Russians came through. THEY killed not only the remaining Germans who weren't well hidden (including my part Kasubian great grandmother) but also many of the local Poles who fled with us. Our family lost 23 people to the Militias. The Marienburg massacre amongst many otheres was the Polish Militia AFTER the Russians. The names of the (still living) killers are known.
Like i said before, considering what the Germans perpetrated on the Poles, I am quite frankly astounded at the moderation the Poles demonstrated. And has it ever crossed your mind that some of those could have been German collaborators, and that is why they were fleeing with the Germans in the first place?
@hague1cameron With your immature judgement I can understand your views that killing at least 800,000 civilians AFTER the war -- pure slaughter of old, women and children is 'moderate'. No sensible person would come to that view.
@historatia With your mental handicap you would not understand that for Poland the war wasn't over! and its rightful government was in exile, and had no control on events in Poland.
Secondly, as for 1918 they were simply doing what the Germans have done for over half century, I am sure you would remember the wanton shelling of Polish civilians in WW1 by the Germans for artillery practice. As a matter of fact they didnt even come close. And going back to Gdansk, you know very well that it was Rokosovskys Soviets who went through east (ducal Prussia)
I don't know what fairy tale book you consult for Polish history, maybe it is the one of the present, fascist Polish government, but there is enough evidence that it was the Poles who killed the Germans in Danzig.
The fairytales are in you head, I argue with facts where are yours? As for Fascism, Poles are unfamiliar with the term since they have history of religious toleration and democracy. Poland has nothing to apologize for; it was German blood lust which led to the demise of the Versailles Peace Treaty.
Wake up! The present Polish government has nothing to do with religious tradition, it is fascist. Poland broke the Versailles Peace Treaty, and as for the so called German blood lust, I guess you are just a German hater. Grow up!
My analysis is that you are driven by an immense inferiority complex when witnessing countries surrounding Germany celebrating their histories, and knowing that it cannot quite be the same for your country which, you would probably hope forgets its immediate past.
I am amazed by your arrogance, your hatred and your ignorance. Germany has a great history, that every German can be proud of, aside from the Nazi Regime.
@hague1cameron And id YOU were a sensible student of History you would know that the FiIRST war casualty is the TRUTH, to be replace by propaganda. (I'm closer to 70 and suggest that you are filled with propaganda and not the true facts of history.
@historatia "" When nations get into military conflict"" The human toll is usually RETRIBUTION, for the agressor who attempted to destroy an entire nation, more so if the effort was "ongoing"
@divustitus The progeam was NEVER ongping. Hitler created the Goubernment General rather than incorporate it into the Reich itself and worked out a "population exchange (Germans from Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Russia to come into areas closer to the Reich while the Poles were to be moved into the Government and then further east. I don't support such an action, but is was NOT a plan to liquidate Polish people, That is sheer nonsense.
@historatia ""while the Poles were to be moved into the Government and then further east""I think Hans Frank said it best as he was "moving" Poles against walls with blind-folds on.."If I continue signing death warrants at the pace I am ,we will soon run out of trees in Poland for producing more paper"......
@divustitus I would suggest to you that -- as you can read in his testimony -- the "resistance/partisan" were not exactly not killing German civilians, including women and children, and the Polish born SS General (Zalewski) organized a very bitter partisan extermination campaign. The Russians have -- or did have -- all the records and all the names. These were Not destroyed. So has somebody actually "counted" the number of executions he signed or were signed on his behalf? Why not?
@historatia I would recommend you read this speech by Edward Werner to the Empire Club of Canada 1942-1943 'Towards Unity'. You access it through his wiki profile or Google what i wrote, than again i don't expect a Nazi apologist to care enough to bother.
@Floesser1970 The can be proud even of much that the Germans accomplished during the Nazi regime. Unfortunately the dark chapters of the Jewish extirpation -- undertaken in secret and with no news media and thus no public knowledge -- continues to cast a shadow decades later.
@hague1cameron You must be a very young and inexperienced person. Germans not only do not have -- and have no reason to have -- an inferiority complex, but can and do -- and should celebrate their history at least on par with other European countries. Germany is amongst the most respected countries by others of the 200 or so nations of the world. You have a remarkable misconception. It must be from living so far away.
@historatia The problem with you is that you are old and still immature. It seems that you have the wrong kind of experience, as for me I have experience beyond my years- and the right type of experience. Germany respected? It was only some 20 years ago that Maggie Thatcher was trying to prevent the unification of Germany, because she was afraid that the Germans would again revert to type.
@hague1cameron Yes, Margaret Thatcher did that, and it got here NOWHERE because even then Britain was already an "also ran" middle power. Britain had never recovered from what it lost as a consequence of the foolishness it displayed in WW II and Eden's really stupid moves the 1950's. (Suez) Today it ranks well below France in its influence. That's not an insult. That's a simple FACT. If you have "experience beyond [your] years, then I have to conclude that you haven't learned much.
@hague1cameron There is a DIFFERENCE between "respected" and "feared" young man. Like Thatcher, Mitterand didn't like it, or that Germany IMMEDIATELY, and against US British and French objections recognized Slovenia, and Croatia, and Slovakia with their substantial Germain minorities. Despite Britain and Poland's effort to thwart it, Europe's integrationis proceeding nicely, with the Treaty of Lisbon and the deals with Russia (circumventing Poland). Germany bailed out Ireland and Greece.
@historatia Yes there is indeed, and you generally don't respect those you fear, unless of course you have some sort of twisted mentality. Yes it is very kind of the Germans to bail out the Greeks, it is the least that they could have done after stealing its gold reserves in WWII. I am sure that Poland is still waiting for its bailout after the damage inflicted by the Germans, somehow i doubt that German generosity will stretch that far.
@hague1cameron Germany has quietly made it clear the it would NOT bail out the non-Euro countries, (Britain Poland, and Czechs) and the British already defaulted on its initial agreement to help Poland as its own situation -- in contrast to the Germans-- kept going downhill. (In 2000, it took only .62 GBP to buy one Euro, now it costs .90 GBP. the UK has NO independent auto industry!. That is how Europe's respect for Britain slid!. Well, pull the cork and swim for it -- towards Norway please.
@historatia You seem to be under the impression that somehow I am British, well I am Polish born and bred. And Poland does not need any bail out, it was the only economy not to fall into a recession amongst the EU countries and currently enjoys the highest growth rate in Europe and has one of the EU's lowest debts. It could do with some compensation from the Germans for their war crimes, theft and destruction of Polish industry though. Unlike Germany, Poland did not receive any Marshall Aid.
@hague1cameron Yes it did not drop down in 2009, but then it could hardly go any lower, but do check the OECD. And low debts? Are you talking international "indebitness" as in "financial debt owed to foreigners," or "national debt" as in accumulated deficits by the Polish government to anyone, or "all polish government sector debt" which is not the same thing. Are you including 'Net undepreciated value of foreign Investment' guaranteed by government. (Its NOT a low debt!)
@historatia Yes I am talking about government debt which is amongst the lowest in the EU, and unlike many of the EU countries they did not have any financial crisis and as such their banks are perfectly solvent.
@historatia """ Soviet Military records show that the Russians had moved on. Try TRUTH?"""---You either are on a schizo drug or you are quite the "disinformationist".....You mentioned several times in prior rants that you consider any information put out by the "Reds" as "myth" NOW it is the "TRUTH"? Make up your mind!
@historatia Poland needs "no bailouts"....Trade & "bailouts" are two different animals.It is to the German ecomomic export "advantage" to have the Euro where it is & might continue be in the not-too-distant future, that is why they are "holding their own" in Europe...Continue to wallow in your memories & hate for that is all they are, your memories are like cacti pricks,your hate will eat you alive--A.D.2011 Poland only growing stronger....
@hague1cameron And I suppose you weren't aware that Rokossovsky (try spelling it right) was a POLE, and Stalin tried to set him up AFTER the war as the Polish leader? Your story about the wanton shelling is dirty propaganda and NOT true! I know EXACTLY with Soviet units hit which town and what the Polish militia did to the people as it came in after.
@Floesser1970 Oh in 1939 isn't this this date when uncle hitller ,this nazi scum stered to exterminate slavs and jews?In this case I won't be crying about loss on german side.
@hague1cameron Tell that to the 23 members of my family who were KNOWN TO BE ALIVE AT THE END OF THE WAR and already under Polish Administration, In Christburg (south of Gdansk) and in near Schlobitten I can take you to the mass graves, but the Polish IPN wouldn't hear of it. The Poles didn't have to KILL the old people and the kids left over, but they did, by the hundreds of thousands.
According to "historatia" My mother, who was one of the kidnapped by nazis then killed her father a defenceless farmer & enslaved her mother, who cultivated man's need for food & worshipped God, was a "myth"! Try telling that to my Mother. Yet my dear Mother still forgives those that perpetrated these crimes, how I love & admire her!
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I'll worry about "forgiveness" when the story is VERIFIED. I have only two references with any "NAMES" and PICTURES" With 50,000 returnees WHO THEREFORE KNOW THEIR POLISH AND GERMAN NAMES it must be possible to develop total documentation. WHERE IS IT?
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """I'll worry about "forgiveness" when the story is VERIFIED""" YOU WORRY about yourself! My mother still has nightmares of nazis taking her father out and shots fired with his body falling over,you keep verifying your sheepskins & dreaming about your fantasy feudal estates & how your nazi dreams went up in smoke
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus You needn't worry about forgiveness, none necessary. I don't or dream about an estate in Poland thank you. (I have two places, one in Canada and one in Slovenia, thanks ) Sheepskins? No! goatskins. It was better for writing important archival documents. I question the entire propaganda story. Do you have documented the thousands of stories or not? Where is that information? Does Polish IPN have it? If not, why not. POINT ME TO THAT, not your mother. SHOW ME!!!
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """I don't or dream about an estate in Poland thank you"""Why I thought you were dreaming of your feudal estate in "prussia" with plenty of Polish servants with the ability to only count to 10 & only serve your needs?"""You needn't worry about forgiveness"""--I'm not, none given, but I don't hate germans, that is why I consider my mother & people like her superior to me.""" SHOW ME!!!"""SHOW YOU WHAT? Wanton death & destruction of Poles at gunpoint?
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus No... The records of the 50,000 that supposedly came back afterwards and have doubtless told their stories in many "collections" or "institutes". WHERE ARE THEY? Look at the individual records that surviving Jews have put together. WHERE ARE YOURS??
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Since you allege that you are some sort of "consultant" Why don't you consult with mevedev & putin about their forebears decision to shift Poland's borders, why bother with Poland? Since you've been losing so much sleep over for 66 years, I'm almost sure they'll give a ready ear & if not, a "cool one-way ticket "east" like many of your former countryman....
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I have worked extensively in Russia, mostly Moscow some well known energy distribution projects. I don't need to as Medvedev or Putin. I know exactly why they did it, and they don't construct some mythology about. The Part of Poland they took with Hitler's help was Czarist holding so it was their sovereingty from 1792, and they re-organized its sovereignties. (more)
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Yes I am glad that you mention the centuries old German-Russian collaboration, Because before that land belonged to the Czar, it belonged to the King of Poland, before it was so shamelessly stolen through German and Russian intrigue during the partitions.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron """old German-Russian collaboration""" isn't it quite a "coincidence" that germans produced poison gas & other large scale weapons production near Samara with the permission of the soviets per the Rapallo Treaty (1922) to circumvent Versailles, then decades later replicated their "prowess" for saddam hussein so he can use german made poison gas on the Kurdish people.
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus Ideed I could not have put it better myself. I really find revisionists so tiresome....my advice is accept your guilt and move on.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@historatia """those that developed and settled and made a life there"""Those that were invited to settle soon were inviting more than required & demanding more & trying to germanize the "invitors" themselves eventually claiming the territory as their own which they did not have the authority to do
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I have NO doubt that Poland claims this area as well, as I know it claims much of Western Ukraine as well. Since my view is that sovereignty belongs to those that developed and settled and made a life there, and not some greedy king (Polish or otherwise). The Russians at least acknowlege the truth of it. (I've done the Trans-Siberian already thanks.)
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Getting sloppy in my spelling here. Writing too fast sorry.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """Getting sloppy in my spelling here"""NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE! It's not only your spelling that's "sloppy"!
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia """You've destroyed the cemetaries, desecrated many churches the places of culture"""Yeah, the ONLY thing nazis left behind of their "culture" in Poland are death camps, which they themselves could not destroy fast enough while making their escape for fear of the retribution to come....
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia You do? in that case you will be glad to know that they have "developed and settled and made a life there", so I suppose using your own criteria the Poles do have a right to that area of the western Ukraine.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@historatia """Since my view is that sovereignty belongs to""" According to a prior post of yours,you stated that the militarily victorious are the ultimate arbiters, typical "chameleoniac historatian" mentality...goebbels could have used you, you were born too late. What else does Poland claim? What else does "historatia" claim?
divustitus 1 year ago
According to "historatia" Hans Frank NEVER said "that he will run out of paper for signing death warrants in his "kingdom general"- Hitler NEVER said that his is the "last" territorial demand after munchen1938--Himmler NEVER said that a Pole must only know how to count to "10" & his(Pole) existence is only justified to serve germans
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus You are MISQUOTING ME Divu. I have never commented on Hitler's saying or not saying that this was his last "territorial demand". His demand for Danzig was NOT territorial. He demanded that it be allowed to rejoin and was prepared to the PEOPLE vote. It was NOT POLAND'S to GIVE as it was supposed to be a FREE CITY.. I've never even discussed HIMMLER's race policies as you suggest. NEVER. That is YOUR LIE.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """"I've never even discussed HIMMLER's race policies as you suggest. NEVER"""In reading your diatribes, one can only surmise your "thinking" which are quite evident....
divustitus 1 year ago
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"We Germans, we should never forget that the libertarian movement in the last century, after the terrible wars began in Poland. To Poland we largely owe Europe's unity and the unity of Germany" - said the president of Germany Christian Wulff.
divustitus 1 year ago
Germany is rebuilding the old Prussia again. Be aware polish people.
deepenhancer 1 year ago
Help us, Deutschland!!! Europe!
We don't like Psoe no Zapatero in Spain! we have near 5000000 unemployees, bad economy, crimes, disrespect, no money, a divided country, no work, no trades,....we're ruining us!
No more lies! we are fed up! early elections now!
Help us, Europe!!! please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please, Europe, help us!!!!!!!!!!!
MyNickola1 1 year ago
I am polish and I really like Angela Merkel . She is my favourite politics person in all Europe. She is great. Come to Poland for a vacation.
TheZagiello 1 year ago
Well, I'm so sick of the whole discussion about ´the polands and germans...
I mean what Germany did to poland was horrible and wrong... but that was 70 years ago!!
Isn't it time now, make some peace, try to forgive? The people now are other people,who have nothing to do with what happend!
Both countrys have their good and bad sides... but can't we just take off our prejudices and live together, respectful and peaceful?
TheBibue 1 year ago
Dear angy, why don't you talk about the deportation of around 15 million germans from poland and czesk republic?? Why do you only talk about german war crimes?? TRAITOR!!! This whore should be executed for treason to germany.
hilletehnoob 2 years ago
Poor polish, germans treated them badly and they did nothing... poor you... that thing of 10 million deportations and around 2 million death of german civilians by polish and soviet is a lie... Those territories were not with almost totally germans... nahh
hilletehnoob 2 years ago
@hilletehnoob I know that you are a little short on understanding the historical truth about the 1930's, that is only slowly emerging. The expulsions and deaths are NOT a lie. (I am one of the expelled, and I know how much of our family was murdered AFTER the war. Either accept the truth or leave it alone for those of us (Polish and German) who understand it, admit it and do accept it. If you start to now twist the truth, -- as many do -- that is a retrograde step.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia what the hell?? 10 to 15 million germans were expelled from silesia,pommerania,east prussia and west prussia,sudetland.
2 million german civilian died(for exemple the at war crimes such as bombing of dresden and others).
was it fair?was it humain?
no, and as polish/russian stole what was not their,the stupid traitor whore of angela merkel shouldn't take any dipomatic relation with poland,many cultures such as pommeranian,prussian and silesia died,it was a cultural genocide.
hilletehnoob 1 year ago
@hilletehnoob Yes it was cultural genocide (my family's culture) but that is an unwarranted reaction, because it caanot now be rebuilt the same as it was. The Poles did not do this. The Russians did to rearrange things for the need they perceived, and not talking to the Poles (of Russians) accomplishes nothing. The Poles and Russians of today, just like the Germans, have to play the hand of cards that they were dealt. Its not easy for anyone.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """The expulsions and deaths are NOT a lie. (I am one of the expelled, and I know how much of our family was murdered AFTER the war."""What about nazi monsters murdering,robbing,raping Poles, kidnapping 250,000"untermenschen" Polish babies, attempting to eradicate totally, with your historical partners the russians,Polish national & historical identity for 200 years? What did you expect? Love?
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus Your too full of the propaganda that the communists fed you. During Bismark's day, the Prussia Landtag had Polish elected members, as did parliament of the Reich. The "babies" story is just that divu, a PROPAGANDA FABLE. (like the "soap". You should do a little homework here.. (more)
historatia 1 year ago
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@historatia ""The "babies" story is just that divu, a PROPAGANDA FABLE""I suppose you will be saying Poles charging tanks is FACT RIGHT? Are the expulsions,enslavements,robberies/confiscations of Poles by nazis and soviets FABLES too? Tell us WHAT REALLY happened to the Polish state & it's citizenry 1939-1945 & go for broke1989? Were they swaying together to an OOMPA-PA "oktoberfest" singing Ach du liebe agustin augustin doing "bruderschafts"??
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus 1. The Germans would NOT have taken Polish Jewish children since they were trying to get if Jewish blood.
2. If there were 250,000 kidnapped children there would he 250,000 parents NEVER giving up to find them. (Remember Argentia's "disappeared??) There has NEVER been a fuss raised by parents of missing children or claims made to Germany! Why not? Because its a HOAX of propaganda. Even the Pilish IPN never turned up anything of the sort.
Don't need "love", just TRUTH.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia "" there would he 250,000 parents NEVER giving up to find them.""" Chances were VERY LIKELY that their(Polish childrens') parents were dead...My mother is one of those "children" who left the germans who "adopted" her because she was a mere slave for their "estate", although she does not hate them, nor do I hate germans..Once again, according to your reasoning military conflict favours the winner, 'nough said....
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus No, not 'nough said. If your mother is "one of those children" than we'll send TV reporters for interviews. As there is with the "wolfskinder" of koenigsberg, there has to be some documentation of this dubious claim. If parents were dead, there are aunts/uncles, and the communist regime would have used it ENDLESSLY for propaganda. The entire story is caught up in an enormous "swindle" with General Jaruzelski's Russian interview at the centre. (more)
historatia 1 year ago
@divustitus You should understand that the whole business of the so-called "missing millions" of Poles is finally coming under serious historical investigation after BOTH the Russians and JARUZELSKY (Isvestia interview) admitted the MASSIVE frauds in the population numbers about Poland. The propaganda made the polish population "disappear", but suddenly it reappeared again? (Like Germans killed Poles at Katyn? (more)
historatia 1 year ago
@divustitus Please take me to the corroborating references where Hans Frank wrote or said such a thing. (I read parts of the autobio that he wrote UNDER POLISH COMMUNIST SUPERVISIONS IN A POLISH JAIL before he was executed; and ALL of the word-for-word examination of Frank at NUREMBERG). a Polish/German colleague, read some of the diary material in the original German -- US photocopies -- and compared them to the english. (more)
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia ""I read parts of the autobio that he wrote UNDER POLISH COMMUNIST SUPERVISIONS IN A POLISH JAIL before he was executed"""Hans Frank was never in Polish custody, he was arrested by the americans. VON DEM BACH had the "Zelewski" officially dropped from his name because it "sounded too Polish" in the early 1930's.
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus You are correct about the Polish Jail. I had that confused with the Nuremberg trial. However, even there, the material that he could write was first censored, in this case by the Russian/Polish unit. The Pole who did the censorship work actually defected at the end and went to the US.
historatia 1 year ago
@divustitus Your are also correct about Zelewski, but so am I. He came from a bankrupt Polish "nobility" of Kasubian extraction. His first language was Polish. The fact remains that he was Polish (but apparently not classes as of the "Untermenschen" type although he richly deserved that label.
historatia 1 year ago
@divustitus Many falsifications were ADDED in the enlish translations. She was told in Kracow -- researching something else -- that the "differences" were "mistakes" from the translations German-to-Russian -to-Polish -to English, but decided it was sheer deliberate falsification! probably in the Russian version. That incident was the FIRST time she started to have SERIOUS doubts about the whole huge story as Russian propaganda. She still teaches Polish history part time at a UK university.
historatia 1 year ago
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@historatia"" Don't need "love", just TRUTH""In the realm of human struggle & when a question was posed 2,000 years ago at a famous trial, I ask you also "What is Truth"? Yours or somebody elses?
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia ""Germans would NOT have taken Polish Jewish children"" Of course they(nazis) did NOT want jewish kids, they wanted Blonde-haired Blue-eyed "untermenschen" Polish children to turn them into little nazis....
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia there certainly were Children that were kidnapped as a means of improving defective German genes according to Himmler. You can educate yourself by reading the following article: Polish children kidnapped by Nazi government
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2010 07:27 ADMINISTRATOR
All you have to do is google it.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron "Historatia" is fighting the war all over again! He wants to re-write history! There were no german encroachments of Polish land,Poland was only dis-membered for the sake of brotherhood, there were no Slavic tribes as far west as Berlin itself, there were no nazi atrocities in Poland, they (nazis & Poles) were singing & drinking beer, NO stalinists murdered germans, only Poles, NO nazis murdered Poles, Poles only murdered nazis
divustitus 1 year ago
@hague1cameron According to "historatia" Poland sat at the right hand of Roosevelt Churchill stalin at potsdam & yalta, Poland decided to invade itself,to partition itself, to attempt to wipe out its' own culture & history murder its' citizens, disrupt the peace of the world, to shift its' own borders thereby losing its' eastern frontier & poor "hystericalratia" thereby lost his coveted feudal estate hence his venom & distortions....
divustitus 1 year ago
@hague1cameron I have read numerous articles making this claim. One says 200,000 taken and 15% came back. Unlike Vad Yashem there is no listing of stories by families of children taken or unaccounted for by birth records. As I explained on another vid (or maybe this one) nothing with Pogonowski's name attached is accepted as reliable information by respected sources. for example, Pogonowski still claims that the killing of Jews by Poles in Jedwabne and many other villages is not true.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia ""Unlike Vad Yashem there is no listing of stories by families of children taken"""NAZIS WANTED ONLY aryan "look-alikes" like my mother to turn into new nazis, not semitic jews...What makes you think nazis wanted jewish kinder herr histo?
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I've NEVER said that Germans wanted Jewish children. In fact, TO MAKE A POINT, I said that it was bizarre to suggest it. Your story about your mother -- if its true -- can be checked against known information. With a "return rate" of 25% claimed, there must be at least 50,000 returned 'kidnapped children" aged 68 to 80? WHERE ARE THE 50,000NAMES as guys like Pogonowski claim, and where is the PROOF. Why is it not written or not published, why are there not Ph. D. studies?
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """I've NEVER said that Germans wanted Jewish children"""Then why are you saying, in prior posts, they(nazis) took jewish children, do you remember what you write?
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia You see your problem is that you see Germany's history in the wrong light. what you don't understand is that Germany is on the wrong side of the ledger. 1st it is a late developer-it only really become a country in 19th century, a few centuries after Poland-so it's a kind of a artificial bastard state. Secondly it always acted to suppress movements towards enlightened in its part of Europe-eighteenth century, by helping to trample on 3rd of may constitution for instance.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video... Thirdly, for a long time it was a bastion of religious bigotry and witch burning in the 30 years war etc. By contrast the commonwealth to a large extent practiced religious toleration-was the first in Europe to pass a law of religious toleration. And whilst the Commonwealth always acted as a bulwark against Asiatic despotism, the Germans did everything to undermine that bulwark-since they were the progenitors of European despotism.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video...And unlike the Germans the Poles rejected the idea of a divine rule of kings long before. So whilst the Poles practiced early forms of democracy by electing their kings etc-despite the Germans being in a more geographically advantageous position. The Germans moved in the opposite direction. And lets not forget the creme de la creme, the Germans instigated both world wars and as such undermined Europe's standing in the world forever.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video...Therefore if one happens to be a believer in the idea of history as the story of human progress, as I happen to be. There is only one conclusion, whilst there have been many brilliant individual Germans-Einstein cannot be considered German Because he was Jewish, and would have been killed had he stayed in Germany, Germany has been a cancer to the European body.
BTW-forgot mention German efforts in undermining Poland's efforts in staving off the Bolsheviks.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video...So if you happen to be a rational minded German, there is just no way you can be proud of your country's history. So why is it that the British for instance did so much change the world for the better, and the Germans did so much to change it for the worse? I am not surprised that the Germans feel such reticence in celebrating their country's military and other history, as you can tell by watching my channel the Poles feel no such reticence.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video... Because for the most part theirs is a history of bravery and fighting against the odds, with Huns from the east and west. take a look at this video for instance: youtube the following Strzelcy w Zadwórzu Would Germans celebrate in th same fashion? They gave up on the goose step after all.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Question: What, if anything does this have to do with the Anne Frank story? Why is the story of Alojzy Twardecki put out by the "Jugendgegenungsstaette Anne Frank, and the Deutsch-Polnische Gesellschaft Mainz-Wiesbaden? If you look at their programs (I read/write German) tells you immediately that claiming to be an attempt to "soften stereotypes" of Poles and Germans, the program is totally one that seeks to teach Germans about Poland -- inclusive of Polish myths. (more)
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron The journalist who researched the stories told in the book (Kinderschicksale) had absolutely documentation of the "numbers" in, but present case documentations. With the supposed rates of "returnees' there would be TENS OF THOUSANDS of these stories. Where is the direct testimony to verify? IT MUST EXIST. these people are today aged 68 to 80? They KNOW both their German and Polish names. Polish Journalists must have THOUSANDS of write-ups with photos. Where are they???
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia correction: the author of Kinderschicksale which included the Alojzy Twardecki case had absoultely NO documentation of the "numbers" of such cases. It only dealt with case documentation.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia So I take it you have read the book? Or are you simply falling back on your default position of good all fashioned German prejudice. Besides why should I do the research for you, you are the one in desperate need of some enlightened. What next? are you going to ask me to prove that the holocaust is real? Why don'y you google: Kidnapping of Polish children by Nazi Germany, and go to the wiki article-it will point you in the right direction.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron The article you pointed me to lead to 're-statements', but nothing more probitive. Probitive to me is SHOW ME THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF COMPILES STORIES as there are so many returnees who SURELY have compiled their stories and published. Where are they? Hard to rely on a translated 1939 letter from some obscure official when there were 50,000 or so returned survivors of this claimed crime. So WHERE ARE THEY.
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron No, don't prove the Holocaust. Just show me the compiled record of the thousands upon thousands of returnees who MUST HOVE told their stories, been compiled in dossiers, used for Ph. D. Theses rather than have this whole allegation rest on a couple of translated letters from Himmler's staff in 1939. WHERE ARE THEY STORIES COMPILED AND ANALYZED? (Should be easy for you!)
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """I have worked extensively in Russia, mostly Moscow""" Well then ,what are you waiting for? Why play around moaning & groaning to Poland, voice your concern about the recovered lands straight to the source.Since stalin roosevelt et al are dead you'll have to deal with the "put-med" team
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia Dear old boy what you have to learn is that in a court of law proof of intention is everything, so as you acknowledge the 'translated letters from Himmler's staff', demonstrates Mens Rea. like i said before I am not going contact IPN and dig for documents, you can do it yourself.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Respond to this video... BTW those celebrations in the video are not even in their own country, they in the Ukraine!
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron What celebrations are you talking about?
historatia 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@historatia 'What celebrations are you talking about?" The ones in the video youtube clip entitled Strzelcy w Zadwórzu. As a way of demonstrating how Poles can allow themselves such displays of commemoration, and the Germans because of their guilty conscience, cannot.
Anyhow, you can see more examples of the Poles celebrating their history on my channel.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
cool und mal an die männer HeisseZone . com ist schon nützlcih was er über frauen schreibt
heinrichhex 2 years ago
Fat German whore!
TYLKO POLSKA!
Philly2002 2 years ago
can someone subtitle this shit
mm89f 2 years ago
My German is for shit, but she was basically just doing the usual political spiel about Poland and Germany being very good partners, working togethor in the European Union, overcoming their crappy history, and having lots of cultural and student exchanges and that sort of thing... along with some mutual political projects, at least that seemed to be the jist of it.
Robertz1986 2 years ago
Ladies stop bickering ya'll must keep in mind that pole and germans are not each others enemy, the JEW is the enemy
rasclat187 3 years ago
i love her german... very clear and graceful
TubbyWilliams 3 years ago 2
Well put. =)
DrMabuseDerSpieler 3 years ago
Warum schreibt ihr hier alle in Englisch. Wenn ihr die Frau verstehen könnt, dann schreibt doch auch auf Deutsch verdammt nochmal!!!
none2787 3 years ago
xDD dem kann ich dir nur zustimmen!
BlureBerry 3 years ago
ich auch verdammt nochmal !
Fal13n 3 years ago
@none2787 Warum denn, die Deutschen sprechen doch aller English auch, und mehe Leute koenned dan auch mitlesen.
historatia 1 year ago
Merkel is an ugly fatbitch with huge, stinky hangyhonks.
schnirrschnirr 3 years ago
I just really hope that Poland germany will become better neighbours in the near future...we have alot to look forward too :D
Corpos2106 3 years ago 9
As Pole I will tell...
Any reperations have no sense in current times. History is hard to jude. Poles lost their land and Germans did.
In my opinion Germany already paid price for WWII. They paid mostly moral price as some virtual German friend told me it long time ago. All the time young Germans hear "becouse in WWII you were...". These time are gone. We must remember history but not live thanks to her.
I am greatfull that alsow thanks to Germany Poland is now in NATO and EU. Thanks.
TheSimon22 3 years ago 6
hmm.. "von Studenten und anderen Menschen"...
seltsamer Satzbau :)
Hexalo313 3 years ago 2
abknallen
we23rt 4 years ago
blah blah blah blah blah... was? Ach schon fertig.. schade, so ein hypnotisierenden sing-sang hat die Frau.
mepnomon 4 years ago
Okaay mach du nen Doktortitel, erreich das, was diese Frau erreicht hat
und dann
kannst du was abwertendes über Frau Merkel sagen.
ontonheinrich 3 years ago
In 1939 1.2 Mln Deutsche Jugendlichen hat nach Polen gefahren. Es war eine nette Exkursion.
In tausendjahrige Geschichte beiden Nationen war nur 25-30 Jahren der Freundschaft (nach Novemberaufstand). Es gibt ein wichtiger Unterschied - die Polen wissen viel uber die deusche Kultur, die Deutschen wissen nicht uber die polnische Kultur.
Entschuldung fur meine Sprache. Es ist schlecht, denn ich stamme von dem Nation den Sklaven und Diebe :P
ttinwelint 4 years ago
sława wielkiej Polsce!!!!
pawelekkkkk 4 years ago 2
If Poland weren't the armpit of Europe, maybe people would respect it more.
swedeboy1 4 years ago
If Sweden is not whorehouse of the World, other nations would treat it more respectfully.
Swedish female copulate with any beast of jungle and Swedish males copulate among themselves.
kozjevime 4 years ago
Ach, ich wünschte wir hätten wieder richtige Staatsmänner... Die hätten den Ministerpräsidenten nicht eingeladen! Früher oder später wird Frau Merkel sich für diese Schande und den Hochverrat vor einem Volksgericht verantworten müssen!
ghmbf 4 years ago
Wir wollen den netten Polen mal wieder mehrere Milliarden Euro in den Arsch blasen den wir von der BRD kaufen uns die Freunde........
goetzvbVideo 4 years ago
Let us all conclude, that from reading the comments bellow, Europeans are, collectively, very silly.
thatcher88 4 years ago
You are the nation which gets the most money from the EU and try to Stop the
development of the EU because of your own interests... to get more advantages
that is nervie... can u imagine how much money germany pays for poland ... we pay and
your government only offends us with old hitler stuff. Would you join a club as a new member
giving nothing only getting things and then offend everyone?
Heikot 4 years ago
This is not Poles, this is their degenerated roman-catholic government obsessed with inferiority complex against both Russia and Germany
kozjevime 4 years ago 4
true
metadon56 3 years ago
not true
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
a jednak:)
metadon56 3 years ago
Comment removed
donittto 1 year ago
Germany has a population of 82 Million People, Poland has 42 or sth like that..
and you Poles want to have nearly the same amount of seats in the parliament as we have...
And you argue with the second world war that you would have had a higher population than today without
a german invasion...
Heikot 4 years ago
they actually could, if they didn't throw out millions of East Prussians after WWII.
Floesser1970 4 years ago
The Poles didn't throw them out, it was Germany's great ally Stalin that did, and it seems that the Germans and Russians at that time were like two peas in a pod. It's been Poland's historical misfortune to be located between two countries with no concept of civil liberties.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
Right! Blame the Russians! I guess it also was the Russians fault that Poland closed every German school and university after 1918 and broke the Versailles Peace Treaty with that? How about those 58000 Germans that were killed in 1939 in Danzig by Poles? When it comes to the Germans that were thrown out of Poland as well as Czechosolvakia, there are still enough eye witnesses alive, who are able to tell you, how it really was.
Floesser1970 2 years ago
1. First of all I should make it clear that the plight of any people is a great tragedy, it does seem to me however, that the allegations that you are making are false and unsubstantiated. Firstly there is absolutely no evidence that would back up your allegations, I' am not denying that undoubted unpleasantness and evil did take place but certainly nothing systematic, which is a miracle considering the lawlessness and situation.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
If so much evil happened, why doesn't Poland simply haf the courage to admit what they did? There is no doubt that they disobeyed the Versailles Peace Treaty, which clearly stated that all minorities have to be treated equal, and have a right to their own culture. This is not just a Polish problem it is a Czech problem too. No one is demanding back any lost property, but the Polish government should be at least apologizing. To be honest to you, Poland shouldn't be a member state of the EU!
Floesser1970 2 years ago
Your incredible ignorance is only surpassed by you prejudice. You say Poland should not be part of the EU, excluding a country with the first European constitution (3 may 1791), the first education department and the first public library in Europe and the Jagiellonian University built in 1364 which older than any German university, would be a self detrimental exercise. I also forgot to mention Sobiesk,i the Polish king who saved Vienna from the Turks.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
Poland as well as the Czech Republic shouldn't be part of the EU, because they haven't apologized to their German victims. I don't think that any nation that ignores its responsiblity in a historical event, is not fit to be part of the EU.
Floesser1970 2 years ago
In a way I pity you, having so little for inspiration when looking at your country's history; two world wars created by nothing more than blood lust. You see I think you are falling into the same trap. In WW1 it was Germanys inferiority complex in comparison to countries like Britain that drove them to war, and in the 2nd it was their complex over losing the first, that made them start the second with the same result.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
@hague1cameron Wow. I guess the world should bow down to the Poles eh? Your facts are wrong. The oldest GERMAN university is Charles University in Prague, set up in 1348 as a GERMAN speaking university. the Czech language part came much later (at the insistance of the German-speaking students!) By 1500, Germany had SEVEN universities, Italy NINE, Spain FIVE, France SIX, Brits FIVE, and Poland ONE, on which basis you claim ACADEMIC LEADERSHIP? REALLY?
historatia 1 year ago
WHAT INCREDIBLE BS.....Prague is in the Czech Republic and not Germany you fool!
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron How could you POSSIBLY FORGET Sobieski. who HELPED (BUT DID NOT ALL ALONE WITH THE SQUADRON) to defeat the TURKS. Was that such a big deal? Poland also claimed with the Miracle of Warsaw to have saved Europe from Communism in 1922 when the Russians had KICKED POLANDS ASS BACK to Warsaw after the Pilsudski led attack on Russia of 1919. You throw the BS pretty well, but go back to the bar. Your ignorance is showing.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia """You throw the BS pretty well""" You throw it pretty well or attempt too, just as goebbels did & all nazi germans..Tell us more! Rokossovsky Polish "leader"? What kind of leader? Rokossovsky in his mind's eye considered himself as Polish as a "balalaika"...
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I'm neither Nazi nor German, divus, so lets start there. Actually, Rokossosky considered himself a Pole -- and despite the Russian killing of his parents -- became a good communist and was to take over Poland for Stalin. I guess you weren't aware of it. .
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia ""for Stalin. I guess you weren't aware of it"". I'm aware of more than you might think.RokossovskY was responsible for the economic"plan" for Poland of the same name which required Poland to "trade with the ussr", to sell Polish material worth 1.00 for .10 ratio, while west germans got the "Marshall Plan" because it was in the best interests of the "west" which betrayed Poland anyhow
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia Yes the Poles were the decisive factor in Vienna, and yes if the Poles had lost to the Bolsheviks in Warsaw, than Lenin would have tried to have carried the revolution into Germany-were many of the Germans were awaiting the Russians with open arms. And lets not forget the German fifth Column made up of Germans living in Poland who in may cases actively supported the Bolshevik invasion of Poland-idiots.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Youi buy all of that propaganda? Did you get it from Norm Davies book? Did you know that his Ph. D. is from a Polish University and he had the intellectual dishonestly to allow his Thesis to be changes becuase "the official history of Poland is that no such war ever occurred". He was denied tenure at Stanford because other historians found is work seriously wanting.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia So your prejudice shows its ugly head, you don't like Polish universities do you? He was denied entry to Stanford because he told the truth about Polish-Jewish relations, and it not follow zionist propaganda.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron What rubbish you spout.
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron The 'substantiation is available in a recently released Dvorackova film clip with the old and young civilian Germans lined up along a road side near Prague and gunned down and the wounded living run over by Red Army Studebaker trucks driven by Czechs. That -- as in Postelberg --killed MORE old German farmers than the entire list of Czechs executed by Hitler's people. You're as ignorant as a cement head.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia I know this might a bit hard for your insular German and self centred mind to fathom, but the Poles are not Czech. On the other hand a lot of Germans were Nazis.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
2. Quite frankly, I' am astounded that after the years of German barbarity when the Polish people had the opportunity of revenge they did not take it.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
As for the revenge, I guess stealing cars in Germany is the revenge of the Poles!
Floesser1970 2 years ago
I believe there is no point in continuing this argument since your knowledge is so transparently lacking in the most elementary facts. Seeing as it is that you have been blessed with a head that is emptier than a hermit's address book, there is clearly no getting through to you.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
So you don't want to continue this argument, but you are chose to insult me. I have never insulted anyone. I have stated facts, that were right, to my best knowledge. But then of course a 23 year old knows more than a 39 year old. I hope you will live a happy life
Floesser1970 2 years ago
I apologize if you're so sensitive, Germans are generally known for their stoicism, let me point out to you that it was you who started making pejorative comments and not me however, it was only me that stuck to the facts and not you, and as a student of history age doesnt come into it, It only proves that you should have been paying more attention when younger.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
@hague1cameron Your comment about wars started by German "blood lust" counts as truly one of the STUPIDEST AND MOST IGNORANT JUVENILE INSULTING remarks that can be made. The war did NOT start for that reason.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia The problem with you, is that you are nothing more than a Nazi apologist. On the topic of the 1st War are you familiar with the German destruction of kielce? As well as the suffering that the Germans and Russians inflicted on a country and a Population that wasn't even theirs?
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron That is stupidly insulting and a discredit to you and your fellow Australians.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Sure just insult a nation you know absolutely nothing about-poor fool.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron I know a LOT about all those countries from direct travels, teaching posts in-country research, international negotiations and consulting.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia In that case you should be booted from your profession for lies and dishonesty!
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@Floesser1970
Oh you know what thieves don't have nationality.They are every where ,in every country.As far as history is concerned you stole much more goods from jews and poles,the worth of those things stolen by germans during the war is much bigger than all those cars stolen by poles taken togather.
donittto 1 year ago
@hague1cameron You've now become the greatest liar on YT. I was in Schlobitten when the polish Militia arrived after the Russians came through. THEY killed not only the remaining Germans who weren't well hidden (including my part Kasubian great grandmother) but also many of the local Poles who fled with us. Our family lost 23 people to the Militias. The Marienburg massacre amongst many otheres was the Polish Militia AFTER the Russians. The names of the (still living) killers are known.
historatia 1 year ago
Like i said before, considering what the Germans perpetrated on the Poles, I am quite frankly astounded at the moderation the Poles demonstrated. And has it ever crossed your mind that some of those could have been German collaborators, and that is why they were fleeing with the Germans in the first place?
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron With your immature judgement I can understand your views that killing at least 800,000 civilians AFTER the war -- pure slaughter of old, women and children is 'moderate'. No sensible person would come to that view.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia With your mental handicap you would not understand that for Poland the war wasn't over! and its rightful government was in exile, and had no control on events in Poland.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
Secondly, as for 1918 they were simply doing what the Germans have done for over half century, I am sure you would remember the wanton shelling of Polish civilians in WW1 by the Germans for artillery practice. As a matter of fact they didnt even come close. And going back to Gdansk, you know very well that it was Rokosovskys Soviets who went through east (ducal Prussia)
hague1cameron 2 years ago
I don't know what fairy tale book you consult for Polish history, maybe it is the one of the present, fascist Polish government, but there is enough evidence that it was the Poles who killed the Germans in Danzig.
Floesser1970 2 years ago
The fairytales are in you head, I argue with facts where are yours? As for Fascism, Poles are unfamiliar with the term since they have history of religious toleration and democracy. Poland has nothing to apologize for; it was German blood lust which led to the demise of the Versailles Peace Treaty.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
Wake up! The present Polish government has nothing to do with religious tradition, it is fascist. Poland broke the Versailles Peace Treaty, and as for the so called German blood lust, I guess you are just a German hater. Grow up!
Floesser1970 2 years ago
My analysis is that you are driven by an immense inferiority complex when witnessing countries surrounding Germany celebrating their histories, and knowing that it cannot quite be the same for your country which, you would probably hope forgets its immediate past.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
I am amazed by your arrogance, your hatred and your ignorance. Germany has a great history, that every German can be proud of, aside from the Nazi Regime.
Floesser1970 2 years ago
Its not arrogance, ask any foreigner what they know of German history, and the answer will be emphatic and monosyllabic: HITLER.
hague1cameron 2 years ago
@hague1cameron And id YOU were a sensible student of History you would know that the FiIRST war casualty is the TRUTH, to be replace by propaganda. (I'm closer to 70 and suggest that you are filled with propaganda and not the true facts of history.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia "" When nations get into military conflict"" The human toll is usually RETRIBUTION, for the agressor who attempted to destroy an entire nation, more so if the effort was "ongoing"
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus The progeam was NEVER ongping. Hitler created the Goubernment General rather than incorporate it into the Reich itself and worked out a "population exchange (Germans from Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Russia to come into areas closer to the Reich while the Poles were to be moved into the Government and then further east. I don't support such an action, but is was NOT a plan to liquidate Polish people, That is sheer nonsense.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia ""while the Poles were to be moved into the Government and then further east""I think Hans Frank said it best as he was "moving" Poles against walls with blind-folds on.."If I continue signing death warrants at the pace I am ,we will soon run out of trees in Poland for producing more paper"......
divustitus 1 year ago
@divustitus I would suggest to you that -- as you can read in his testimony -- the "resistance/partisan" were not exactly not killing German civilians, including women and children, and the Polish born SS General (Zalewski) organized a very bitter partisan extermination campaign. The Russians have -- or did have -- all the records and all the names. These were Not destroyed. So has somebody actually "counted" the number of executions he signed or were signed on his behalf? Why not?
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia I would recommend you read this speech by Edward Werner to the Empire Club of Canada 1942-1943 'Towards Unity'. You access it through his wiki profile or Google what i wrote, than again i don't expect a Nazi apologist to care enough to bother.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@Floesser1970 The can be proud even of much that the Germans accomplished during the Nazi regime. Unfortunately the dark chapters of the Jewish extirpation -- undertaken in secret and with no news media and thus no public knowledge -- continues to cast a shadow decades later.
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron You must be a very young and inexperienced person. Germans not only do not have -- and have no reason to have -- an inferiority complex, but can and do -- and should celebrate their history at least on par with other European countries. Germany is amongst the most respected countries by others of the 200 or so nations of the world. You have a remarkable misconception. It must be from living so far away.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia The problem with you is that you are old and still immature. It seems that you have the wrong kind of experience, as for me I have experience beyond my years- and the right type of experience. Germany respected? It was only some 20 years ago that Maggie Thatcher was trying to prevent the unification of Germany, because she was afraid that the Germans would again revert to type.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Yes, Margaret Thatcher did that, and it got here NOWHERE because even then Britain was already an "also ran" middle power. Britain had never recovered from what it lost as a consequence of the foolishness it displayed in WW II and Eden's really stupid moves the 1950's. (Suez) Today it ranks well below France in its influence. That's not an insult. That's a simple FACT. If you have "experience beyond [your] years, then I have to conclude that you haven't learned much.
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron There is a DIFFERENCE between "respected" and "feared" young man. Like Thatcher, Mitterand didn't like it, or that Germany IMMEDIATELY, and against US British and French objections recognized Slovenia, and Croatia, and Slovakia with their substantial Germain minorities. Despite Britain and Poland's effort to thwart it, Europe's integrationis proceeding nicely, with the Treaty of Lisbon and the deals with Russia (circumventing Poland). Germany bailed out Ireland and Greece.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Yes there is indeed, and you generally don't respect those you fear, unless of course you have some sort of twisted mentality. Yes it is very kind of the Germans to bail out the Greeks, it is the least that they could have done after stealing its gold reserves in WWII. I am sure that Poland is still waiting for its bailout after the damage inflicted by the Germans, somehow i doubt that German generosity will stretch that far.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Germany has quietly made it clear the it would NOT bail out the non-Euro countries, (Britain Poland, and Czechs) and the British already defaulted on its initial agreement to help Poland as its own situation -- in contrast to the Germans-- kept going downhill. (In 2000, it took only .62 GBP to buy one Euro, now it costs .90 GBP. the UK has NO independent auto industry!. That is how Europe's respect for Britain slid!. Well, pull the cork and swim for it -- towards Norway please.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia You seem to be under the impression that somehow I am British, well I am Polish born and bred. And Poland does not need any bail out, it was the only economy not to fall into a recession amongst the EU countries and currently enjoys the highest growth rate in Europe and has one of the EU's lowest debts. It could do with some compensation from the Germans for their war crimes, theft and destruction of Polish industry though. Unlike Germany, Poland did not receive any Marshall Aid.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Yes it did not drop down in 2009, but then it could hardly go any lower, but do check the OECD. And low debts? Are you talking international "indebitness" as in "financial debt owed to foreigners," or "national debt" as in accumulated deficits by the Polish government to anyone, or "all polish government sector debt" which is not the same thing. Are you including 'Net undepreciated value of foreign Investment' guaranteed by government. (Its NOT a low debt!)
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Yes I am talking about government debt which is amongst the lowest in the EU, and unlike many of the EU countries they did not have any financial crisis and as such their banks are perfectly solvent.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@historatia """ Soviet Military records show that the Russians had moved on. Try TRUTH?"""---You either are on a schizo drug or you are quite the "disinformationist".....You mentioned several times in prior rants that you consider any information put out by the "Reds" as "myth" NOW it is the "TRUTH"? Make up your mind!
divustitus 1 year ago
@historatia Poland needs "no bailouts"....Trade & "bailouts" are two different animals.It is to the German ecomomic export "advantage" to have the Euro where it is & might continue be in the not-too-distant future, that is why they are "holding their own" in Europe...Continue to wallow in your memories & hate for that is all they are, your memories are like cacti pricks,your hate will eat you alive--A.D.2011 Poland only growing stronger....
divustitus 1 year ago
@hague1cameron My God are you DUMB. I know that Australian schools don't teach the nonsense that you've absorbed.
historatia 1 year ago
You should try keeping quiet next time, because your imbecility is pouring out from your ears.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@hague1cameron I'll ignore the stupid insult. Go READ some history first.
historatia 1 year ago
@hague1cameron And I suppose you weren't aware that Rokossovsky (try spelling it right) was a POLE, and Stalin tried to set him up AFTER the war as the Polish leader? Your story about the wanton shelling is dirty propaganda and NOT true! I know EXACTLY with Soviet units hit which town and what the Polish militia did to the people as it came in after.
historatia 1 year ago
No he wasn't, he was only part Polish, and he obviously considered himself to be a Russian. that is why he he changed his name.
hague1cameron 1 year ago
@Floesser1970 Oh in 1939 isn't this this date when uncle hitller ,this nazi scum stered to exterminate slavs and jews?In this case I won't be crying about loss on german side.
donittto 1 year ago
@hague1cameron Tell that to the 23 members of my family who were KNOWN TO BE ALIVE AT THE END OF THE WAR and already under Polish Administration, In Christburg (south of Gdansk) and in near Schlobitten I can take you to the mass graves, but the Polish IPN wouldn't hear of it. The Poles didn't have to KILL the old people and the kids left over, but they did, by the hundreds of thousands.
historatia 1 year ago