Lavochkin La-5 (1943) Part 1 of 2

[tinolino58]

The NACA 23 Series Airfoil was not realy the leading edge in those days.

There where the 63, 64 and 65 Series much faster..

But the 23 Series are good for bad surfaces.. perhaps....

[MrAapenkind]

no sups lame

[Oesau1]

La-5,La-7 Beautiful fighter. The Best Fighter of SSSR

[Adamserush]

только что смотрел фоке вульф он круче по характеристикам

[Xiolablu3]

If you think dogfighitng is the be all - and end all of fighters, then we would still be flying super manouverable biplanes with tiny turning circles. Dogfighting is a last resort in fighter combat. You want to dive down at high speed, blast your opponent out of the sky, and get away before he knows what hit him. The Me262 was fantastic for this purpose with its massively heavy armament of 4 x mk108 30mm cannon. One hit from this cannon could destroy any fighter.

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, La5 was an excellent plane but had too many & complicated controls in its initial model but that ws corrected. The La5N & La7 were also a great plane, as was the Yak3 etc. They were the equal of German Bf109 & FW190 & Western Allied planes in the dogfihter role.

Get a life dingbat.

[Xiolablu3]

To tell an Me262 pilot to avoid combat with any Russian plane would be laughable. Only to avoid DOGFIGHTS. Use energy and the vertical instead. There is a reason that they were still not flying very manouverable biplanes which turned well in WW2 ;)

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, There were not any but a very few Me-262's that ever flew in the East!! Shitler was the one that insisted the Me-262 be mainly used as a fighter bomber. An Me-262 couldn't slow down & dogfight a Spit or a P-51 or a Yak-3 etc. because it couldn't manuever well at lower speeds. Luftwaffe commnad did indeed issue an order for its fighters to avoid the Yak-3.

Me-262 was not all that great anyway.

Bye.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 SHows how much you know about Aircraft if you say the Me262 was 'not that great.' It totally revolutionised fighters and fighter combat, was 100mph faster than any other fighter of WW2, and had swept wings which was also revolutionary.It was leagues ahead of any other fighter of WW2. It didnt NEED to dogfight, it could use its speed to hit hard and run, then come back, making it almost untouchable. It was vulnerable if surprised or the pilot got too slow, and on landing. Thats all

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, Me262 had many, many problems dummy that are well documented. It needed 2 engines to begin with & the fuel was highly toxic & explosive, etc. It was well armed. Overall it didn't do all that well & many were shot down by bombers & fighters. It was faster but that does not always matter. The Brti Meteor 3 & USA XP38 were also operational & ready for mass production. The XP38 used only 1 engine & was better than the Me262.

Go have your wetdreams now.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 Christ I dont know where to start with this load of rubbish.It was the Me163 rocket plane which had explosive fuel, not the 262. The P38 was a twin boom US propellor fighter-not a jet. If you mean the YP80 then it was not even ready for WW2 and never saw combat. ALso it was developed from donated British data which is why the US were able to catch up so quickly. It was not 'better' than the 262, the 262 had massively more powerful armament, and was available a full year earlier.

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, Sorry, typo, yes genius, YP80/XP80, not XP38, it was operational in an experimental unit in southern Italy & apparently made some strafing runs, so you are wrong. 4 were sent to Europe for operational testing (two to England and two to the 1st Fighter Group at Lesina Airfield, Italy) The initial production order was for 344 P-80As after USAAF acceptance in February 1945. A total of 83 P-80s had been delivered by the end of July 1945 and 45 assigned to the 412th Fighter Group .

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 But it never did anything, thats the point. The fact thaty the Me262 was massively outnumbered doesnt mean it wasnt an incredible plane and far ahead of any prop WW2 fighter.

6x.50 is very light armament for 1944-45 when British and German planes had 4x20mm cannon and even 30mm in some cases like the Me262. The US was the ONLY country who stuck to mg armament, every other country moved up to larger cannon armament. 4x20mm equals around 12-15 .50 cals according to the US navy

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, No, the point is it was available & a good jet. During the Korean War the 14 P-80s were shotdown by MIG15s & 17 MIG15s were shotdown by P-80s with their .50 cal. F-86 Sabres mainly used only .50 cal. & were much more successful against MIG15s. Many if not most USA pilots of the time preferred getting in close with their .50s that would then tear an enemy plane apart. .50s were more than sufficent.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 It wasnt available in WW2, which is what we are talking about.

.50's were poor vs cannon, simply google 'ww2 fighter gun effectiveness' and pick the top link, its all layed out in semi scientific terms. Also on that site, under 'The Hispano-Suiza HS.404 20 mm Aircraft Gun in US Service', is the story of why the US never managed to get a working cannon in service, despite trying hard through the war. They used the .50 because they had nothing else, not because they wanted to.

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3. .50 is not a 'cannon' as you state but is a heavy MG. "By the end of the war, the 56th FG was the only 8th Air Force unit still flying the P-47, by preference, instead of the P-51. The unit claimed 677.5 air victories and 311 ground kills, at the cost of 128 aircraft. Despite being the sole remaining P-47 group in the 8th Air Force, the 56th FG remained its top-scoring group in aerial victories throughout the war." P-47 had 8 0.50cal HMGs, good enough till end of war.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 And where exactly did I say that the .50 BMG was a cannon????

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, Ahhh, I see, my mistake, I misunderstood your dumb comment that the '..50's were poor vs cannon' by reading quickly. No, the .50s did fine all the through the Korean war as I have posted info. that proves this. Sorry, we had 20mm & 37mm cannon that worked well after bugs were removed. Germans also had bugged cannon etc. etc. etc.

[fantom58]

@christof139 In 1950 the USAF was the only major air force that relied on 50 cal as main fighter armament. Even towards the end of WW2, the US Navy "got religion" and began to add fighters armed with 20mm cannon to its inventory. Other major airforces (Luftwaffe, USSR, RAF, Imperial Japan) were using 20mm from early in the war--US had only P-38s armed with nose cannon. US pilots in Korea complained that you needed too much time on target with 50s. Sabres w/20mm cannon were testted in Korea.

[lemonite1]

@fantom58 yeah, but I think the Bell P39 Aircobra had a 20mm cannon in it's nose

[lemonite1]

@Xiolablu3 The Bell P39 Aircobra used both 20 and 37 mm nose mounted cannons.

[Xiolablu3]

@lemonite1 Yes but the US WW2 20mm was always unreliable in US aircraft wing mounted installations, and never satisfactory to put into service

[lemonite1]

@Xiolablu3 Well the ensuing P63 Kingcobra successfully mounted M4 variants in the wings and 37 mm M4 as gun pods under the wing.

[NearAbbeyRoad]

@Xiolablu3

"The fact thaty the Me262 was massively outnumbered doesnt mean it wasnt an incredible plane and far ahead of any prop WW2 fighter"

262 was a glorified Kamikaze - it occasionally returned to base. It killed more Germans than Allied airmen. UK & US would never introduce such an underdeveloped, dangerous plane. Meteor was fully developed.

Acceleration about the same as best prop plane but greater top end. Not agile - poor in dog-fights. Jet compressor stalled easily. A poor plane

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, Speed of P80A was ~558+mph (835km/hr), 6-.50cal. in the nose provided plenty of firepower, 45,000ft. ceiling, 4,580ft/min climb rate, range of 540 miles (864km), 4,000lbs of thrust from 1 engine GE/Allison. YP80A: Speed 553mph (832km/hr), 6-50.cal in nose, 48,500ft ceiling, 5,000ft/min climb rate, range 560 miles (896km), 4,000lbs thrust. Yes, I already the engine was an improved Brit engine from the Meteor 3.

You seem to miss somethings.

[tranmere789]

One case involved a major leader in Soviet aviation who pointed out to Stalin that the Red Air Force's aircraft were poorly designed and produced and prone to breakdowns and failure; he was arrested, tortured, and executed—Stalin thus setting a salient example to others. The Marxist-Leninist view of the nature of truth itself reveals it as a political construct whose political objective is always more important than mere actual facts or reality.

[zrvpvo8789]

@tranmere789 Actually, it was German designed and built equipment that was notorious for poor reliability.

Funny thing but it was Hitler's view on actual facts of reality that cause Germans to loose each and every major battle. Isn't it the reason why you so upset?

[12ock]

its awesome its a first for me russian ww2

[stas19689889]

самолет смерть гансу-2

[Masnovita11]

great plane!! I miss subtitles...btw, it has a fw-190 style design

[GRATZIANI2002]

..great video..shit language..

[McLarenMercedes]

Cool video. Too bad I don't know Russian, although I understand a few words. Would be nice to have an English translation.

[Rawego]

Сема Лавочкин! - наш человек :))

[CrazyVaniaMCC]

Let's tell thanks our grandfathers for a victory!!!

[MDG155]

Ivan Nikitovich Kozhedub was a best allied ace whit 62 kills, and he was flying La-5.

[Vykuk123]

@MDG155 He shoot down even two of P-51 mustangs :P

[MDG155]

@Vykuk123 haha nothing strange :D I am not surprised.

[TyseAsi]

@MDG155 not all of these were achieved flying La-5, at least 15 he scored on La-7

[AKATenn]

wonder how many hours of maintainance per hour of flight was required on them...

[silverbud]

Yes, strange, they played Beethoven symphony from 5:20. I guess russian symphonies were too heavy. Could not play Shostakovich, could they? ;-)

[mbbmtlg]

La-5 is better than Yak-3.

[Shredding0it0up]

@mbbmtlg Clearly the Yak-3 was superior by all accounts - if any of you are basing your opinion off the PC game IL-2 Sturmovik, please stop now, aviation enthusiasts are very tired with History Channel and PC game historians. On a side note German command did in fact restrict against turning with Yak-3's below 4000m, and why would you, the Me 109 had a clear altitude advantage, which of course would tip the odds in favor for the Me 109, the exact same technique for Hellcats against A6M Zero's.

[acg515]

@Shredding0it0up Keep in mind that the La-5 came out in 1942, while the Yak-3 came out in 1944. Of course a plane that comes out later is going to be better - more experience, and becoming acquainted with the mistakes they made on earlier models plus improvements are going to make a better plane. Either way, a fairer comparison would be with the La-7 which came out in 1944.

[CarstenOepping]

@mbbmtlg it is not!

[blibaboing]

@mbbmtlg lol summert wrong wiv u

[LegioXIIICinema]

Funny that some of the music is by Beethoven. (German)

[odinandme]

@6.00 when it shows left side. It looks like SS insignia on a black plane.

[IanHunedoara8]

Lutwaffe command gave orders to Me-109 pilots to "avoid combat with Yak fighters lacking an air cooler under nose". This was NOT the Yak 3 but a later Mark with a different engine!

[MajorDumai]

Please, stop shitting about Yakovlev Yak 3. It was a slightly better in manuevres than La-5 or La-7 but lacks in range and weapons.

[christof139]

RexBanner82, Check Luftwaffe High Command orders. You will find this order to avoid 'the Yak without conspicuous air scoop'. That is a fact. Lucky for the Luftwaffe that the USSR was only able to produce under 5,000 Yak-3's.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 Thats wrong. It said avoid dogfighitng with the Yak-3. The same order went out to avoid dogfighting with Spitfires in 1940 - 4years earlier. It didnt mean lots of Spitfires and Yak-3's were not shot down by the Luftwaffe. It simply meant avoid turning dogfights - use the vertical manouvres instead.

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, Luftwaffe command never ordered its fighters to avoid Spits, but they did order them to avoid the Yak-3. The Yak-3 was an excellent climber & dogfighter. The order concerning the Yak-3 was to German fighters to avoid it completely.

[Xiolablu3]

@christof139 Thats completely false. Please show me the text. The Spitfire XIV was a better climber than the Yak 3 and turned just as well. I find it hilarious that you think the yak3 was a better all round fighter than the me262. Are you suggesting me262's should run away from a yak3? lol

[christof139]

@Xiolablu3, So, Me262s climb quickly into & through layered heavy bomber formation taking fire & hits, & then climbs inot more layers of fast high altitude fighters firing at it & diving on them. That's why a large number were shot down attacking bomber formations protected by long range high altitude fighters in abundance. Same when Me262 was diving on bomber/fighter formations, except that fighters could avoid its dive attack.

You're an idiot, There were few Me262s available.

[mckseal]

@christof139

There were actually a fair few 262s flying, well, I should say, operational. There was too little few and so they were only flown in the most desperate of interdiction's (intercepting bombers).

[christof139]

@mckseal, 'A fair few', & about zero on the east Front & the most ever available & capable of being flown in the West was ~100. Galannd himself & ~25 Me262 hit 1 bomber formation very hard yet another time ~55 Me262s (+other fighters) attacked ~2000 Bombers & fighters & lost ~25 or so (I forget number) without doing much harm. Allied pilots stated that the initial surprise etc. of meeting the jet quickly dissappeared & it was found the jet could be defeated in various ways.

[mckseal]

@christof139

true.

I have nothing more to say :P

[Xiolablu3]

@mckseal lol I know how you feel

[christof139]

Only late in the war were orders issued to German pilots to avoid the Yak-3 fighter, not La-5, La-7, Yak-7 &9 & certainly not the slow and unsuccessful Lagg-3!! Yak-3 was was probably the best Soviet fighter and one of the best of the war. Yak-3 was a little killer, very manueverable.

[aeroturc007]

yak-3 had leading edge slats

[christof139]

I read that sometimes these or other parts of the wing occasionally ripped off on the Yak-3.

[khask72]

Lavochkin was the great designer. Subsequently he has created one of the first intercontinental cruise missiles.

[yakovlev3a]

What the 190 was to Luftwaffe was what the LA5/LA7 was to Russia. A solidly built radial engined fighter. LA5 could not turn as tight as yak1 but it had a very good roll rate that would allow it to simply "cork-screw" in order to out maneuver enemy fighters chasing it

[gsherlock]

Interesting, promoting the virtues of a Soviet fighter whilst using the opening movement of Beethovens Eroica Symphony for background music.

[Fooyoovoo]

this is great.

[TheBearmat]

LA5, sorry.

[TheBearmat]

The LA7 probably wasn't influenced by the spitfire - the roughly similar shapes of single engined fighters was the result of designers, acting at the limits of contemporary knowledge, wrapping the most aerodynamically advantageous airframe around the most effective powerplants. The 'state of the art' at the time dictated the results, such that a Huricane looked a bit like a 109, which looked a bit like a Yak 9, which looked a bit like a Mustang etc etc.

[kjsh987]

looked like the la 5 was inspirated by the supermarine spitfire.

[FLY8046]

5/5

[drhl1]

Шикарно!

[rudi1889]

Oh yes, I forgot. The leading Allied ace in WW II was Russian.

[rudi1889]

At the beginning of the war Russia had some planes which were verging on obsolesence, but by wars end their planes were as good as anyones.

[BMunich16]

Let me correct you, their planes were better than the axis, 109 pilots were told to avoid Russian fighters at all costs by the late years of the war. They did have the MiG-3 in the beginning though, it was faster and could out turn the 109's.

[VictorSobakus]

The MiG-3 was a total log below 3 thousand metres, and couldn't fly higher than 7 because of problems with the oil radiator... It was very fast and agile at height thou.

[RexBanner82]

What a load of bs

[BMunich16]

You're a load of bs

[RexBanner82]

would you provide a source for your claim that "109 pilots were told to avoid Russian fighters"?

Thought so.

[BMunich16]

From The Illustrated Directory of Fighting Aircraft of World War Two: Indeed by 1944 a general directive had gone out to Luftwaffe units on the Eastern Front to "avoid combat below 5000m with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler under the nose!" 99% of combat on the Eastern Front took place under 5000m I might add.

Thought so.

[RexBanner82]

See that's how much you research your shit: That directive was given by Hermann Graf to units of JG52 alone, because they had a lot of problems with rookies trying to dogfight the Yak-3.

So in conclusion:

You said "Russian fighters at all costs" while in reality it was only the Yak-3 and under 5000m, whereas Bf 109 typically cruised at 6000m. You further said it was a "general directive" by the Luftwaffe whereas it was only this particular Kommodore's directive for his JG...

[RexBanner82]

...and finally the sentence originates from Christer Bergström, who, despite being a very knowledgable person, never provided any primary source for this claim.

So your original statement is a lie, misleading intentionally and distorting an unproven claim. Thought so.

[BMunich16]

But I was still right, not to mention the aerial battles for fought mostly under 10000 ft. I took the exact words from a book. Obviously you know more than the author so please write one of your own.

[RexBanner82]

No you were not "right", see comment below. I'm not going to repeat it.

As for combat height. While firefights themselves were lower than on the western front, cruise height was not that much lower and often the same. So German fighters still had a significant energy advantage upon the start of a firefight. They still held the initiative and the figures reflect this.

[BMunich16]

My main point, Germans were told to not combat Russian planes is correct. Get over it.

[DmitriyUA]

BTW, the father of the 47 is a russian himself, lol, how life can be ironic, doesn't it?Hehe:)

[GerbilEssences]

Two Georgians, no?

[ikoiv]

Soviet II ww airplanes were very poorly armoured and fortunately for that many of those were shot down also due to poor construction.

[DmitriyUA]

Don't talk shit like that. Don't act as if you're an expert in the field!

Your statement about "very poor armour" is laughable and that about "poor construction" is not exactly right.

Either you are somebody who didn't study the russian planes correctly, or you are just trying to look like "an expert".

In both cases you can say bye-bye to your credibility...

[ReDDDgo]

ikoiv: you stupid man)))

[spritz0]

ce mailot!

[tranmere789]

Juutilainen (more than 94 killings) continued:

"I gradually tightened my turn, and the enemy pilot tried to pull more and more deflection. If we started at low level, it took me some 13,000 feet before the enemy began to lose his speed and turned down. Then I just rolled after him and shot him down. "

He really did his job.

[matymatymaty]

Is it the same pilot who claim to shot down P-47, p-38, Spit which wasn't in Russia at that moment? If it so i highly doubt in his words.

[ibeagle]

USSR operated lend-lease P47's around Leningrad. Also operated Spitfire V's. Google it.

[matymatymaty]

Google'it yourself than you will find that P-47 unit was never operetional during the war and it defenitley wasn't at that time when the finn claim it (If it was just tell me the name of such regiment, it's simple isn't it?)

Spit V's units were operational but not at the North of the Easter Front but at the South.. the difference more than 1000 km and 3 month in time.... SO, he's just a liar.

[DmitriyUA]

Lol, ibeagle, the 10 47's they received weren't used against the Finns. They didn't used them because of the unsatisfactory low level charachteristics (what is logical, cause the 47 operated best et a lot higher altitude)

[tranmere789]

How did Finland's greatest ace, Ilmari Juutilainen handled La-5: "I often used one tactical trick against the La-5 that worked every time. When a La-5 pilot got behind me, I started a climbing turn, so that the enemy pilot would point his guns at me but could not take the proper deflection. Usually he fired and, of course, missed"

[szymas303]

Jebane Uber gówno nieźle musze sie nieraz napoci c by spadlo to ufo ;D

[browning50cal]

Normadie-Nieman Escadrille scored their first kill April 1943. They flew Yak-1/7 at first, and transitioned to the new Yak-3 in August 1944. Stalin sent them back to France with their Yaks after the war as gesture of gratitude.

[spritz0]

Some amazing engineering went into these planes!

[bahnstormero]

at 2:28 there is Lavochkin himself.

[astragato]

thanks it`s a good, an interesting film. spasibo, spasibo, otlichno.

[faireyswordfishmk1]

at duxford they are restoring a green la 11 just check out the flying legends website all the flyable and restoraitions are all there plus a brief history. btw great vid this great footage here

[bigmanSJH]

after the la13 lavochkin produced many jet fighters and fighter bombers, im not sure but i think they went under in the 70S. As for shot dispersal (linkjm) could be solved with alignment of cannons above nose (7.7 mg in lagg7)

[SmiertSpionem]

So tragic that Lavochkin never got more fighter plane contracts post WWII, those really were the most beautiful fighters!

[KurtGnu]

I agree.. :D

[fener4e]

Actually he did.His design buerau worked over the commie cruise missiles,with the ICCMs amongst them(including'Burya'(Storm)).­He and his team worked over the project'Pautina'(Network),desi­gnig interceptors LA250.And besides he designed machines like LA15 and LA160

[SmiertSpionem]

Yes but besides missiles, I don't think he was awarded any more production contracts. The Mig-15 took its place in history because it was simple and easy to make even though the La-15 was (generally) a better fighter.

[fener4e]

Yep.LA15 rules.Much better machine than the MIG,in all its qualities.I personally think it was again a political act to reject its massproduction.The same thing happened to A.Yakovlev after Stalin's death.None of his planes was officially taken into servise until the late 70s

[SmiertSpionem]

Bloody fantastic footage there!

[GalacticGargleBlasta]

Wow, Im sure it was great in its own right and all, but that thing looks seriously like a spitfire in a lot of those shots.

[linkjm]

the problem with the LA5 was bullet dispersal, which was horrible. very difficult to accurately fire on a target.

[SmiertSpionem]

I'm sure they improved it though? How exactly were bullets (actually cannon shell I believe)dispersed badly?

[fener4e]

And why the French chose that plane if it was inaccurate?Giving them Yaks was a pure political step(Yakovlev was Stalin's protege),but it was the LA the French pilots fell in love with.

[SmiertSpionem]

Did any French pilots get to fly La-5/7?

[fener4e]

The first crews who arrived to the SU in 1942,and inspected the hardware they were to fight with,got test flights and insisted to be given LAs,but were refused.

[SmiertSpionem]

Such a shame. I would have insisted on flying La-s!

[fener4e]

And if I was the commies,I would give the French what they wanted just to kill the enemy.Besides the most of the French pilots had much more experience than the average Russ flyboys.However the frogmen didn't enjoy flying really superior machines until the got Yak3s in 1944

[fener4e]

By the way,the Lavochkin's experimental-design bureau took active part in constructing the"Lunohod" remote controled lunar robot.

[astragato]

well, it`s a good question

 i`m not an expert but i think they did not. normandia-neman division took place only until

43 y. may be, at the begin of 44th. but la-5 is a fighter of middle-last days of the war.

[SmiertSpionem]

Ok, then why not La-7s if La-5s were being phased out by then?

[astragato]

я думаю, что ты сам все знаешь. это потому, что твои вопросы -конкретные и понятные. i think, you know all the things about la-5. you know many things as minimum. your questions`re correcly, skilled and filled

of some sence.

so, i will not answer.

[SmiertSpionem]

Errr... Ok?

[astragato]

ok, of course. sorry, i don`t know english well enough.

thank you for your questions. i`m not an englishman so it`s a difficult problem to explain what i wanted.

[d2mitry]

Russian pilots prefered La-5 more than Yak-3

[HastaeMartis]

PLEASE may you put some subtitle in english for those who dont know Russian very well!

THANKS! ;-)

[johnn2400]

This plane is awesome. I just love it.

[flexyco]

One of my favorite planes of all time. Who cares about spits & mustangs, The LA-5FN has a radial!

[SmiertSpionem]

Wow, the first La-5 vids I have seen (well besides my own brief crappy one).

[xkgb]

Spasibo