I feel sorry for that Damascus steel blade you destroyed by not understanding what properties a blade like that should hold, and therefore considering it cheap when put next to a high carbon steel blade. When carbon is added to steel is increases the hardness of the steel/blade meaning it will be stronger and hold an edge longer, but it also means that it will be more brittle. Metal forms a crystal matrix pattern when it is heated and worked which also increases the brittleness of the piece.
pattern forging and pattern welding were techniques developed to give steel a more malleable yet still remarkably strong characteristic. As well as the process of annealing the piece of steel. Annealing the steel after bringing it to the martinsitic phase is how we currently make some of the strongest steel. we take it to the hardest form of the crystal matrix, cool it, and then anneal the metal in order to bring some softness back into the piece.
The process of pattern welding does these effects to some degree to begin with. by making so many folds in the metal you disrupt the crystal matrix and it gives the blade strength in multiple directions. by further tempering and annealing the blade you get a strong blade with soft traits then when used properly will exceed its requirements for the job.
@canterios You might want to do a bit more research there on the pattern steels. This is large carbon crystals between folded layers to get the look. Not the same. I can get the same look using salvaged iron nails and powdered charcoal - it doesn't make it a razor.
I'm sorry that you think you are trying to defend this obvious failure of a razor.
@theshockwav I never said that the high carbon steel blade did not do the job better, I simply stated that you misunderstood the properties a pattern welded steel should possess. using a force gauge when breaking the blades wouldve been much more convincing evidence, but i can only take your word for it. my grandfather has been a metallurgist for 65 years. i understand the properties of metal very well. so i will say this. this razor, was probably NOT a true pattern weld.
@theshockwav a true pattern weld crosses the crystal matrix during the folding and also other compounds are added in during the folding, such as borax, carbon, cementite and hematite to name a few. at the present time we cannot recreate true Damascus steel, we can only imitate, and on most occasions proper pattern welded steel will be stronger. I was more trying to point out the properties this blade held you attributed as cheap, when simply the blade did not achieve them well enough.
I've had the "pleasure" of honing a G.B.Crappingham razor. Worst POS pakistani steel ever.
You don't need fancy lab gear to figure out these are worthless, anyone that have a minimum knowledge of honing and straight razors will understand it in a second.
Note to self, never shave with channel locks, vice grips, and a hammer. Don't play at being an expert until you have some proper knowledge and test equipment. If you did this evaluation with a Brinell tester and microscope it might have a credence of credibility. As it stands it comes across as Sparky doesn't understand, let's break it.
@1Curmudgeon Agreed a proper lab test would be nice it's not the only method. A tempered blade will break instead of bending, this did break at the spine but not the cutting edge. It folded rather than shearing on a face on strike. Using a control (the Genco) razor I repeated the steps and the differences are apparent.
I didn't claim to be a metallurgist but I don't need to be to show that this is not properly tempered and the interior is pattern welded steel.
@1Curmudgeon I think this video is a testimony on how to FAIL at trying to prove your point and then FAIL again at not being wise enough to understand that you FAILED. There is an old saying that I have always loved... When there is an idiot on the bus and you cant spot him... ...its you.
1. No such thing as modern Damascus, the mines that produced it AND the process are lost. Pattern welded is what you have there and the pattern can be made using roofing nails - no indication of quality.
2. Counter sunk refers to a conical hole. This is an insert. By introducing 2 different metals in the pivot in the presence of water you setup an accelerated corrosion factor.
3. Threaded pins are easier, looks lazy at minimum....
Damascus steel was a term used by several Western cultures from the Medieval period onward to describe a type of steel used in swordmaking from about 300 BCE to 1700 CE. Today, the term is used to describe steel that mimics the appearance and performance of Damascus steel, usually that which is produced by either crucible forging or pattern welding.
Sorry you so dense you thought they used steel form 300 BCE... LOL FAIL
"The samples of modern fabricated Welded Damascus steel (at list, the samples tested by us) do not exceed up-to-day high-carbon and low alloyed steels in combination hardness-toughness and they are considerably inferior to supersteels."
Mechanical properties of Modern Fabricated Pattern Welded Damascus Steel - S. Fedosov
@theshockwav - I heard the Swedes had recovered the entire Damascus process back around 2000. Sadly it was some time ago that I read this, so I've misplaced my primary source.
4. I can call them Shirley, the fact remains they they will absorb water and rust the pivot. METAL washers is the only sensible option.
5. Strength that is not apparent here. The effort I required to break a blade with twice the mass was about half. And about half the effort to bend the tang as well. Damascus should exceed carbon steel - this did not.
6. It hung and folded on impact because it's not TEMPERED. Even the swords of old show chips from battle impact.
...prior to the discovery of tempering & High Carbon Steel. No question HCS is harder. Everyone knows HCS or SS is better for shaving than Damascus however Damascus is beautiful and pain staking to make. That is why people pay more and desire Damascus blades. Now days it is typically welded Damascus.
6. Folded Tang & Spine If you understand blade manufacturing you would realize you harden the razors edge not the spine/tang.
That keeps if from shattering and why the Vintage HCS tang&spine bent as well. If you knew anything about blades as you claim to know you should at least know that.
7. Why did it hang together when snapped it is folded and welded steel even when hardened Damascus is designed to not break in a line... Your comparing apples to oranges.
Conclusion - Monkey meet football and hammer now goto work proving your a monkey...
@keepingitreal2k I'm sorry that you finish a debate with childish name calling. I'm demonstrating that as a knowledgeable customer that this product is not as described.
I also have not named your company unless you are the manufacturer.
I feel sorry for that Damascus steel blade you destroyed by not understanding what properties a blade like that should hold, and therefore considering it cheap when put next to a high carbon steel blade. When carbon is added to steel is increases the hardness of the steel/blade meaning it will be stronger and hold an edge longer, but it also means that it will be more brittle. Metal forms a crystal matrix pattern when it is heated and worked which also increases the brittleness of the piece.
canterios 1 week ago
pattern forging and pattern welding were techniques developed to give steel a more malleable yet still remarkably strong characteristic. As well as the process of annealing the piece of steel. Annealing the steel after bringing it to the martinsitic phase is how we currently make some of the strongest steel. we take it to the hardest form of the crystal matrix, cool it, and then anneal the metal in order to bring some softness back into the piece.
canterios 1 week ago
The process of pattern welding does these effects to some degree to begin with. by making so many folds in the metal you disrupt the crystal matrix and it gives the blade strength in multiple directions. by further tempering and annealing the blade you get a strong blade with soft traits then when used properly will exceed its requirements for the job.
canterios 1 week ago
@canterios Incorrect annealing and tempering will make steel of any quality useless as far as being able to hold an edge.
This failed using half the pressure the thinner razor took ergo - it's not as strong.
The edge never chipped, it yielded and rolled like red hot steel. Hardened steel such as is required to hold an edge CANNOT be soft.
I can make a blade from pattern welded titanium if I like but if it cannot support the geometry it's never going to work as a blade.
theshockwav 1 week ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@canterios You might want to do a bit more research there on the pattern steels. This is large carbon crystals between folded layers to get the look. Not the same. I can get the same look using salvaged iron nails and powdered charcoal - it doesn't make it a razor.
I'm sorry that you think you are trying to defend this obvious failure of a razor.
theshockwav 1 week ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@theshockwav I never said that the high carbon steel blade did not do the job better, I simply stated that you misunderstood the properties a pattern welded steel should possess. using a force gauge when breaking the blades wouldve been much more convincing evidence, but i can only take your word for it. my grandfather has been a metallurgist for 65 years. i understand the properties of metal very well. so i will say this. this razor, was probably NOT a true pattern weld.
canterios 1 week ago
@theshockwav a true pattern weld crosses the crystal matrix during the folding and also other compounds are added in during the folding, such as borax, carbon, cementite and hematite to name a few. at the present time we cannot recreate true Damascus steel, we can only imitate, and on most occasions proper pattern welded steel will be stronger. I was more trying to point out the properties this blade held you attributed as cheap, when simply the blade did not achieve them well enough.
canterios 1 week ago
I've had the "pleasure" of honing a G.B.Crappingham razor. Worst POS pakistani steel ever.
You don't need fancy lab gear to figure out these are worthless, anyone that have a minimum knowledge of honing and straight razors will understand it in a second.
amund72 1 month ago 3
@amund72
They are also cheap knock offs a a good mans designs and work.
n2skcmo 4 days ago
God, how many accounts is that loser from VSR going to make to dislike this video?
ThatPony 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
Note to self, never shave with channel locks, vice grips, and a hammer. Don't play at being an expert until you have some proper knowledge and test equipment. If you did this evaluation with a Brinell tester and microscope it might have a credence of credibility. As it stands it comes across as Sparky doesn't understand, let's break it.
1Curmudgeon 3 months ago 4
@1Curmudgeon Agreed a proper lab test would be nice it's not the only method. A tempered blade will break instead of bending, this did break at the spine but not the cutting edge. It folded rather than shearing on a face on strike. Using a control (the Genco) razor I repeated the steps and the differences are apparent.
I didn't claim to be a metallurgist but I don't need to be to show that this is not properly tempered and the interior is pattern welded steel.
theshockwav 3 months ago
@1Curmudgeon I think this video is a testimony on how to FAIL at trying to prove your point and then FAIL again at not being wise enough to understand that you FAILED. There is an old saying that I have always loved... When there is an idiot on the bus and you cant spot him... ...its you.
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago 3
better title this video "ron swanson ruins razors"
JoshuaQuail 3 months ago 2
@JoshuaQuail LOL Agreed an epic fail
StraightRazorShaving 3 months ago
Response:
1. Proves Razor is genuine welded Damascus steel
2. Proves they use a counter sunk Brass washers (you wont find detail work like this in a cheap razor)
3. Shows that they use nice counter sunk machine screws for easy blade tension.
4. You can call them paper washers but funny after months of use they still look fine.
5. Anyone that knows metals knows that Damascus Steel was an ancient process of folding steel to create strength....
Continued Below...
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago 4
@keepingitreal2k
1. No such thing as modern Damascus, the mines that produced it AND the process are lost. Pattern welded is what you have there and the pattern can be made using roofing nails - no indication of quality.
2. Counter sunk refers to a conical hole. This is an insert. By introducing 2 different metals in the pivot in the presence of water you setup an accelerated corrosion factor.
3. Threaded pins are easier, looks lazy at minimum....
theshockwav 3 months ago
@theshockwav - From Wikipedia
Damascus steel was a term used by several Western cultures from the Medieval period onward to describe a type of steel used in swordmaking from about 300 BCE to 1700 CE. Today, the term is used to describe steel that mimics the appearance and performance of Damascus steel, usually that which is produced by either crucible forging or pattern welding.
Sorry you so dense you thought they used steel form 300 BCE... LOL FAIL
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
@keepingitreal2k
"The samples of modern fabricated Welded Damascus steel (at list, the samples tested by us) do not exceed up-to-day high-carbon and low alloyed steels in combination hardness-toughness and they are considerably inferior to supersteels."
Mechanical properties of Modern Fabricated Pattern Welded Damascus Steel - S. Fedosov
Proc. of Int.Conf. "Technology 99",
STU Bratislava, 8-9 Sept.1999, v.I, pp.50-52
theshockwav 3 months ago
@theshockwav - I heard the Swedes had recovered the entire Damascus process back around 2000. Sadly it was some time ago that I read this, so I've misplaced my primary source.
frostek 3 months ago
@keepingitreal2k
4. I can call them Shirley, the fact remains they they will absorb water and rust the pivot. METAL washers is the only sensible option.
5. Strength that is not apparent here. The effort I required to break a blade with twice the mass was about half. And about half the effort to bend the tang as well. Damascus should exceed carbon steel - this did not.
6. It hung and folded on impact because it's not TEMPERED. Even the swords of old show chips from battle impact.
theshockwav 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Continued from above:
...prior to the discovery of tempering & High Carbon Steel. No question HCS is harder. Everyone knows HCS or SS is better for shaving than Damascus however Damascus is beautiful and pain staking to make. That is why people pay more and desire Damascus blades. Now days it is typically welded Damascus.
6. Folded Tang & Spine If you understand blade manufacturing you would realize you harden the razors edge not the spine/tang.
Continued Below...
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
Continued from above:
That keeps if from shattering and why the Vintage HCS tang&spine bent as well. If you knew anything about blades as you claim to know you should at least know that.
7. Why did it hang together when snapped it is folded and welded steel even when hardened Damascus is designed to not break in a line... Your comparing apples to oranges.
Conclusion - Monkey meet football and hammer now goto work proving your a monkey...
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago 2
@keepingitreal2k I'm sorry that you finish a debate with childish name calling. I'm demonstrating that as a knowledgeable customer that this product is not as described.
I also have not named your company unless you are the manufacturer.
theshockwav 3 months ago
Comment removed
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
Comment removed
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
Comment removed
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
Comment removed
keepingitreal2k 3 months ago
Excellent video. I guess you can still get what you pay for these days.
ORLYWTF 3 months ago
@ORLYWTF Yeah, except this is a $100 piece. (Claims to be worth twice that.)
theshockwav 3 months ago
Comment removed
JackOfJudges 3 months ago