1 of 7 - Reading - Consciousness / Free Will / Determinism

[ohmphthschwrhu]

freedom is overated and overmassaged ,if the population is 7billion this is what happens at 7bil.this thing called life makes tools to survive;eyes nose ears mouth skin feet etc.we mimic this thing with our inventions.this thing made our emotions. some of the tools this life thing has made,it knows it will render obsolete if those tools happen to be too distructive or come to rival its destiny.take away emotion and who knows freedom?fully mature/optimize the human brain and what is freedom/will

[OnychaHazel]

how many bifurcations are you averaging per chapter?

[miselaineeous]

Oh.. one or two. :P

[raw420x]

Anarchy, okay, I like how you use it here, Anarchy as in lack of order in the universe? or lack of control in the universe?

I immediately thought of "entropy" when I heard the word "anarchy" in your discussion, of course I always here what I want to hear, but I somehow interpreted Anarchy as Entropy, the measure of energy not useful in a system is how I heard you,, oh sure I bet you were using Jedi Mind tricks on my, isn't that funny?... you're the best......

[miselaineeous]

raw420x -- Anarchy is absolutely NOT related in any way, shape or form to Entropy. Anarchy is a type of "spontaneous order", whereas entropy is "decay".

[raw420x]

In my layman thought, the universe is so chaotic that it's only perfect in order, as if it were meant to be, The universe is so big, so vast, that it cancels out my very thoughts, or my interpretation of it, leaving me in a constant state of contemplation, I need to use math to make sense of it....

[miselaineeous]

raw420x -- I assume you're using "chaotic" in the sense of messy randomness, but perhaps you're using the more correct mathematical meaning of the word, as in "chaos theory". (again, "spontaneous order" is occurring)

[raw420x]

I love it, can't wait to buy it.... Stoked you are doing this, this is right up my alley of complete thought, way past my curiosity....

[miselaineeous]

raw420x -- yay! Thanks for the encouragement. And your comments help me to understand what I need to explain more clearly.

[raw420x]

Yes, yes,  so it would be Anarchy, as in a very safe version? (spontaneous order) . . . (?)

[miselaineeous]

Yes, the spontaneous order brand of anarchy; libertarian-anarchy, or anarcho-capitalism, or anarchist free-market economy.. however you want to say it. The FREE kind. :) I doubt any form of govt is "very safe", but it would be if we were smart enough to let it actually work and not mess with it the way we've messed with our own (no longer) free market society.

[Olehenry1]

Individual perspectives are analogous to black holes -- can you write a little explanation about this?

Thanks,

Jack

[miselaineeous]

Olehenry1 -- I really should give a tutorial on chaos theory and how order comes out of simple feedback loops. Only 3 things happen to a system. It will either (1) be pulled into a periodic cycle (like an asteroid being pulled into a repeating orbit, or like periodic population fluctuations), (2) fly off to infinity (like an astroid getting flung out of orbit, or a population explosion), or (3) get pulled down the drain (like an asteroid crashing into a planet, or an extinction).

[miselaineeous]

Of course, since systems all overlap, they interfere with one another, and something caught going down the drain can be "reset" and then take another route (like saving a species that would otherwise go extinct).

I'm actually not clear yet which of the 3 fates brains or black holes fall into (if any) but the analogy I'm drawing is that they are perhaps such incredibly "focused" systems, they become inaccessible to the outside world. No one can explore the inside of a black hole, or our minds.

[leephysics]

Mother nature says hi

[miselaineeous]

FIVE (at least) more parts to come! Thanksgiving is going to delay things a bit though. ;)

[zombiesmasher]

Great Video and some interesting ideas being discussed! I tend to keep one foot solidly planted in Determinism when approaching philosophy. The other foot tends to wander off.

Cheers!

[wonderpope]

why seem the terms "linear" and "abstract" seem to be used interchangeably? I don't think that abstract is the counterpart to complex.

[miselaineeous]

Yes, I'm using it in a very specific way here. It's linear vs. nonlinear. Gotta fix breakfast.. I'll give a more thoughtful answer later!

[wonderpope]

good...I have to fix dinner. Looking forward to the answer. Bon appetit :o)

[miselaineeous]

I think you misunderstood to some degree. I am not using "abstract" as the counterpart to "complex". In fact, I use "abstract" to mean anything that is NOT complex (ie. non-linear, chaotic, fractal, etc). I'm definitely not using "abstract" in the sense of abstract art, or "random".

And by "linear" I mean anything that isn't NON-linear. When I say "linear curves" I mean "smooth curves", which probably sounds better, depending on what area of mathematics (or not) you're in.

[miselaineeous]

Since "non-linear" and "complex" go hand in hand, I guess I do sometimes use "abstract" and "linear" interchangeably, but I try to be descriptive and define the terms as I go and not just throw those words around.

I really need ONE good word to refer to anything euclidean -- like a circle, square, ball, pyramid, a smooth trajectory, the smooth curves of human-made objects, a set of discrete categories, arbitrary laws, non-recursive rules, so on and so forth -- anything that is NOT complex. hmm.

[wonderpope]

To find this one word, which will be clear for everyone in its meaning, seems a very difficult task indeed. 'regular' or 'normal' seem to be adjectives that can encompass some of these characteristics you mention, but not all of them at once.

By 'abstract' you mean reducing something to basic and simple properties?

[miselaineeous]

wonderpope -- Yes, by abstract I do mean "reducing something to basic and simple properties" in a sense, although I specifically mean our imagined-euclidean-geometry-ve­rsion of something. Like imagining a XMas tree as a triangle, or in another sense, imagining a loose category like "straight people" (where some may actually have varying degrees of bisexual tendencies) as a distinct category and drawing it as a box in some diagram, and also how we perceive separate objects in the first place.