Why do some of the Orion VII have a different engine sounds. For Example the 88 South Leaside is different from those same buses running in the West or North End. Like why do they sound different.
I don't mind the Orion VII's that much. At first I wasn't a big fan. In fact, I still dislike the look of the exterior (though the revision should fix this), but interior is quite nice. I like how there is minimal distance between windows and how high they go, really makes the interior feel much more open. Also there is excellent standing room as well. I do wish there was less bench seats, but as long as you hold on to a bar it isn't too bad.
The older buses should not be retired, these buses coming in should be used for service increases to increase the fleet. The ttc needs 2 more garages a lot of buses are parked outside. Love to see more gmc fishbowl bus, classic and new flyer bus videos made while they are still running.
Theres no orion bashing I just do not like the idea types of buses are being fased out that should be in service much longer being rebuilt again. Ttc had a very interesting bus fleet your right, very diverse. Thats a big reason ridership was so high. The ttc was fun to take.
The only thing I'm bashing the DD S50EGR/ Allison B400R VIIs. Thats the only think I'm bashing. Anyways, dyip90 couldn't careless on how much I hate them
I jsut want all comments to stay clean, no weird "super-rebuilding" that Newflyer500 refers to, or anything against other buses (who knows - you could tick off someone who likes those buses). e.g I like the VII, VI, and V; it annoys me to see people say "VII sucks" or something of the sort without further evidence.
But I'm not going nuts over the S50EGR VIIs. I;m not saying "THOSE VIIs! SUCK!" The reason why I say "bashing" is because I just dislike them. Nothing more.
I also do not 100 percent like V7s. Number one they do not look as good. not as looking from the left side. Thats aero dynamic for you, more like ugly dynamic but the v7s are not that bad. 400,000 dollars each they cost. lowfloor, low capacity not as safe inferior construction.
Hi how are you doing I think you are a great guy, nice videos keep them coming. Withs wrong with rebuilding the gmc classics, fishbowl buses, newflyer buses, nova hf buses, orion hf buses along with the ones in storage. New flyer 1997 lowfloor buses should be rebuilt also and kept in service 8 more years. Rebuilding a bus costs 100,000 to 150,000 dollars a bus.
You said yesterday the fleet is becoming monotomous with eventually one type of bus. Jump on the band wagon of wanting other buses rebuilt they are great buses. The fleet stays diverse and interesting and great. v7s coming in should be only to increase the fleet to make service increases.
Monotonous does not imply a bad system. In fact, with the fleet becoming the same, they can save on parts and labour, as it's much cheaper to buy parts in bulk and rebuild one type of bus than it is to do many different ones.
It does the v7s are not as good looking as the gmc fishbowl buses, the classics and the new flyer high floor buses. Not as will built. v7s are low capacity less seating and I do like to get a seat yes with out feeling like I"m practically sitting on the pavement. Remember the lesson the new york city transit learned in 1982 when the grummond flexibles collapsed became unsafe and had to be taken out of service.
Pointing out all the negative aspects of the Orion VII gets you nowhere. They fulfill their job. Their job its to transport people. New looks can no longer do taht as efficiently due to their outdated engines. Say you had to get somewhere quickly through public transit. An Orion VII could get you there in 5 mintues, while a GM New Look with an extremely pollutive engine gets you there in 10. What would you choose? Outdated technology or fast, modern technology?
The gmc buses best buses and can rum much longer they are great buses. The ttc has made a lot bad decisions result bad advice favoring orion, ikarus buses flops. 300 artic buses from gm 1982 to 1986.
electric trolley buses should of been kept with new buses bought from new flyer in 1989, 1990 with wire system totally overhauled. eliminated because of bad provincial advice. service cuts low floor buses bought to cut para transit service fare increases product of el cheapo mike harris mulruney and mell lastman. el cheapo conservetives only for rich.
orion buses bought 1991 to 1992 should of been for service increases. orion buses bought in 1996 to 97 the high floor ones should of been for service increases only.
I understand what your saying but, take this for an example. How do you think it would feel if you went into your closet to see 1000s of one pair of shoes to wear(I know I'm overagesgerating (sorry I don't know I to spell that, don't laugh at me), but you get my I mean). Sorry, I don't know about you, but I need viarity.
1991 all buses older than 1983 should of been rebuilt with another one in 1999. The should be rebuilt and kept in service 8 more years starting this summer. Toronto needs to pave blacktop smooth all the bumpy roads. bumps ruin all vehicles. a product of el cheapo paul martin and his cuts.
Big shame toronto fan I do not like the v7 invaision. I use to avoid the 7 bathhurst line a lot of times and take the 160 bathhurst north line to wilson station, the subway, than a crosstown bus to double back. Their coming in should be only for service increases not to mafia other buses out into retirement or back in storage.
Bathurst use to have those ugly Orion VIs. They got a nice sound but the look of them did not appeal. It is a shame, I mean if they ever retire the GM Newlook, then me and the TTC have some talking to do. I think they should have a wide verity of buses not just only one pair. It's like going into a closet and finding only one pair of shoes to wear.
Hi toronto fan dyip agrees did not rebuttal me pointing out the negative aspects of the v7s. He said who cares as long as it is a bus that does the job. We care thousands of other riders care. The gmc new look buses have great looks inside and out, sound great and does the job great. I have always had great rides on the gmc new look buses. How long the ride takes depends on the amount of traffic, riders getting on and off at stops. You do not want the driver driving like a maniac.
*quote* We care thousands of other riders care *quote*. So what you're insinuating is that the average rider actually pays attention and cares about how the bus looks or sounds like? Here's a reality check-
1)people like you are the only ones who care anything about a bus. Why? Because you're a transit enthusiast. Come on, try talking about this to the average person and they'll look at you like "you're weird" or "you're obsessed".
Not true. I know that they are the best buses ever made. They run great. I agree they cannot be rebuilt over and over again forever doing heavy duty use, but can be rebuilt after every 6 years of use up to 32 years of use. They can be rebuilt after that and used 8 more years up to 38 years of usage. The last time only doing rushhour service.
Most of the gmc new look buses are made 1982 to 1983 the ttc has. A lot of them wher in storage not being used from 1994 to 1997. That means 1982 to 1997 they wher only used 12 years. The ones that wher rebuilt went back in service 1998 to 2001. As of now a lot of those buses wher only used 19 to 21 years of service. They can be rebuilt 1 more time and used for 8 more years of heavy duty service.
As far as you saying ther outdated engines polluting the environment buses are part of the solution not the problem. Polution in Toronto is caused by the 20s of thousands of cars ran in the area every day either pasing through or in the city. The solution to this is more transit service. lower fares and better Via rail service and better rail freight service. Better Go transit service.
3)The old buses CANNOT be rebuilt again and again. As they're rebuilt, they're prone to deteriorate even more. Yes, so maybe the new looks were made out of better material to last a few years longer, but NOT to last forever. Be thankful they're still here, even with their outdated engines polluting the environment.
4) Accessibility IS an issue. Even if the TTC were to equip lifts on the new looks, they would have a pretty hard time looking for parts. And custom parts will need to be made, which costs lots of money. The reason why were getting Low Floors/VIIs because the whole idea is BASED on safety, not because it's a laze issue with stairs. Low Floors also save time and the environment.
Garcia how are lowfloor buses safer. They are not safer. On low floor buses you are riding at the same height as cars. What makes buses safer is you are much higher than cars in case one smashes in. Number 2 there is only 33 seats. The gmc new look buses have 40 seats. People like me like to get a seat. Sitting you are less likely to get pickpocketed or to fall. Again the high floor buses are safer and can be made again. Low floor buses are 400,000 dollars a pop and I"m tired of fare increases.
You are focusing on accessibility. The handicapped and walking challenged should be transported mainly on wheeltrans service porto to porto what wheeltrans service tripled. Making handicapped wait at bus stops and make connections is terrible and they are big crime targets.
The buses that do have wheelchair lifts and there are plenty should be used on the top 40 routes where there are the most wheeltrans pickups and dropoffs nearby.
And your pet peeve about being the same height as cars--Because the new looks have been rebuilt so many times and are more prone to deterioration, they can screw up majorly at any time, which makes them no safer than Orion VIIs. It appears to you that floor height and weight of the vehicle is what makes New Looks safer, but that's only as far as you go.
Pollution issues. All buses Pre-DDC S50 contribute their fair share to it, and diesel engines use a hell lot of power (more smoke;]) What is your vision of this mega-rebuild program. All older buses? That would bring us to about 375. So, the 375 should replace the VIIs, I suppose. Let's see, 375 Heavy Diesels against 374 Hybrids+100 Light Diesels... That's right so I guess Eliminating Hybrids and Light Diesels to be replaced be heavy diesels are your brilliant solution to our pollution problem.
Sir the buses the ttc already has here will stay. If all 375 of these buses the ttc has running and in storage are rebuilt that would be great. They could be used for service increases to replace the chepo Mike Harris cuts.
Additional buses are not fully the reason why there are fare hikes. Back in 2004, there was a major token forgery which cut the TTC by 4 Billion. Older buses also need to be maintained more drastically, which costs more and more money., and this would increase by a lot if New Looks were rebuilt again, and the maintenance costs would eventually overpass the cost of a new bus. And more and more people are sticking to the metropass, uh-oh!
Whats wrong what people sticking to metropass. The subsedys chepo Mike harris cut needs to be replaced. New buses cost 400,000 dollars a pop. Rebuilding the older buses and using correct preventive maintnancing will not cost that much. Mechanics are paid no mather what. The bombed out streets and roads need to be all paved smooth.
Nothing is wrong with the metropass,except for when more and more people use it instead of paying cash or tickets, then they're losing money and revenue down the road. You say rebuilding the older buses and using correct preventive maintenance will not cost that much. Heres your problem, you have any idea how much diesel a 6V71N engine chugs as opposed to an ISB hybrid?Money,money,money. Besides with buses almost reaching 30 years its INEVITABLE to prevent constant maintenance on them.
Again, with the accessibility issue. A bus needs to be replaced every so often just so that the passengers can get the modern conveniences such as A/C and better heating. You also say the bombed out streets and roads need to be paved smooth. Okay, you know how much that will cost for the city and the government?Considering how many crappy roads there are in TO, that would surpass the amount of money used for buying new buses.
. So, youre calling Mike Harris cheap. Okay, so maybe he wasn't the best premier, but you can't go around calling people cheap without knowing how to pay for it all: cost of rebuilding stored buses+finding of parts+maintenance+paving roads-The list goes on...
And I forgot to point out 2)The TTC has no choice but to buy LFs. They're extremely cash-strapped, so the government funds them. Even if they wanted to buy HFs, they couldn't because the Government demands all LF, therefore it's not advice. On another note, It is not Orion's Fault that the III and the VIs were retired early. The Frames and design were made by Ikarus, Orion just the seller. The VIs were retired early not because they were crap, the used CNG technology that was inconvertible.
5) There's nothing you can do about the fishbowls disappearing. GM stopped making buses, and putting them back in production would cost billions. They're finished, and that's the way it's gonna be.
The v7s do not have the looks. The great sound the gmc new look buses have. Low capacity, less seating. I do not think the ttc is going to be crazy and just unilateraly just get rid of them for those not as good v7s.
There is 253 gmc new look buses. With I think is going to happen from studying the ttc is the 50 percent that are in the best shape will stay in service. The 50 percent taken out, the 20 best buses that will get a tune up and back in service. half of the buses left in that 50 percent that are not the best ones in that bunch will probably be sripped for their parts, body parts and seats. other half will be put in storage.
I think so I have studied the ttc enough, they are not dumb even though they have made a lot of bad moves due to bad provincial advice favoring orion and subsudy cuts from cheapo mulruny, mike harris and paul martin. One thing the ttc does not like to do is being wasteful so I think the future is bright but we should find out the adresses and email adresses of the people that matter and write to them and make sure.
The ones running they are all going to be rebuilt again in the summer and kept in service 8 more years. The other ones in storage 60 percent will be rebuilt and put back in service using the same criteria. Same with the new flyer buses. All the gmc classic buses will be rebuilt, along with the nova hf buses and the new flyer lowfloor buses. They should do service increases which they will be able to do. Get 20,000 less cars on, streets big decrease, traffic pollution.
Only the Nova RTS High Floors are being rebuilt along with the New Flyer D40LF's because they're accessible. The rest - will be killed off when new buses come.
I do not think so that would be dumb and very crazy. A lot of the gmc new look buses have only ran in service 25 to 28 years old, some even less and are now in storage. They can be rebuilt and runned 8 more years. the gmc mci classics can along with the new flyer hf buses why not. why are you so much aganst. The orion high floor buses should all ve rebuilt.
the gmc fishbowl buses and new flyer buses can be rebuilt also. There needs to be 100 para transit vehicles added to wheel trans fleet with service to handicapped and walking challenged getting service porto to porto. Province should cover 90 percent of the cost plus reinburse the ttc for the half fares seniors and disabled get. with that done ttc has almost no deficet at all oh province should reimburse ttc for the money they lose charging student fares.
I"m going to comment on the accessible issue. 100 paratransit vehicles should be added to the wheeltrans fleet giving service porto to porto to the handicapped and walking challenged. 15 more community bus routes should be added serving scarboro, etobocoke and north york 1 in the danforth area where most of the eldery population lives. I'm going to comment further on this issue. El cheapo mike harris tried to kill this service.
The orion wheel chair lift equipped buses, low floor buses that are presently in fleet should serve routes that have a lot of wheeltrans pickups and dropoffs in the viccinity. runs where more than 30 people get on totally in a trip should not be served by lowfloor buses because of the seating and capacity issues.
no more new buses should be added to the fleet it is a waste of money when the buses presently in the fleet and in storage can be rebuilt and kept in service more cheaply. I"m sick and tired along with other riders of paying fare increases for glitz. These new buses are waste of money. some should of been bought.
I said glitz, these low capacity not as well built buses do not deserve that word. the gmc new look buses are way better. Get set to hear a lot of cranking. The orion buses break down alot wit mechanical issues. orion buses are not as well built as the gmc buses.
There is safety issues with the low floor buses. The hf buses are safer because you are sitting above cars and mini vans, suvs low floor buses sitting at same height as cars and mini vans suvs . One hits at 20 or more niles a hour your talking possibly multiple casualtys deaths cripplements because of these experimental rejects that should not be on the road.
Getting back to the accessibility issue and stupid move ttc has made because of bad provincial advice favoring orion sacred political cow. mike harris and his subsydie cuts killed the eglington subway extension. money being spent on these orions should be used to get that built. mike harris cut wheeltrans service making eldery and handicapped wait at freezing!!!!!!!!!!! cold bus stops making connections.
bus routes had massive service cuts 1994 to 97 thanks to good old cheapo buddy mike harris who put a car dealership man in as transportation commissioner or mass transit assasen paul martin helped that cause. electric trolley buses taken off so orion could sell natural gas buses. stupid move. natural gas buses should of been used along with other new bus acusitions to increase fleet service increases. All of the old buses 1n 1992 should of been rebuilt kept in service.
1torontofan I have news for you. I read in yesterdays new york post that the orion7 buses are repeatedly breaking down with mechanical failures. No low floor bus that I know of has lasted more than 10 years. Orion has not fixed the problem. New york city transit is spending 200,000 dollars for a consultant.
New york city they are having repeated problems with the power generators. How fuel efficient can they be by being hybreds. By the way they sound not much plus I seen a big puff of black smoke coming from one of them ha ha ha!!! so funny. Those orions man do they crank a lot when they will not start. I saw a black girl bus driver cranking one the other day in manhatten a orion7. ttc should rebuild the proven gmc newlook buses, classics, new flyer hf buses, to run 8 more years.
Thats good to hear. I only wish the NewFlyers where here to see it. And again just to say it again, I don't hate Orions, I mean there not my fav but oh well, I just perfer Newflyers. I just don't like how there sticking to only one bus when they can buy other different brands to, why only have one pair of shoes to wear, if you get what I mean.
Your right, orions do not have the looks because they try to make them aero dynamic. aero dynamic results in looks that are aero dynugly. they are hungarion japanese styled buses that do not last as long, low quality, low capacity. bombardier, new flyer, gmc newlooks are the best buses, best transit mamufacturers.
the unproven lowfloor orion7 buses should not have been bought in such large awesome numbers. ttc and new york city transit in 2003 and on should of just rebuilt all the rts classics and gmc new look buses and keep them in service 8 more years. The orion7 buses are going to be a flop just like the grumman flexible buses wher in 1980 for new york city transit. any orion7 buses purchases should of been just for service increases and not busy trips.
Im a big orion basher!!!!Ha HaHaHa The best buses ever made with the best looks is the gmc fishbowl buses and classics and new flyer high floor buses.
How come its not shinny???
MVRTA108 7 months ago
The new engine sounds great!! i think its the best sounding bus! even better than the most recent lineup!
justdrivin1 8 months ago
wow sounds just like an mbta new flyer d40lf
sieman700 2 years ago
Sounds like the Gillig Low Floor buses in Washoe County, Nevada with the same ISM/B400R powertrain.
Sulaco516 3 years ago
Correction: ISL
Sulaco516 3 years ago
Nice Sounding engine.
25HNA6 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"attention passengers piss off, thanks for your cooperation
mtabusrock 4 years ago
This bus is now located at Queensway.
67jamo 4 years ago
Why do some of the Orion VII have a different engine sounds. For Example the 88 South Leaside is different from those same buses running in the West or North End. Like why do they sound different.
Kenster1025 4 years ago
They have different engines. Look at the fleet numbers the next time you see them - the 7900/8000s are louder than the 7400-7881 series.
dyip90 4 years ago
Yeah but why did toronto do that.
Kenster1025 4 years ago
Engine provider for 7400-7881 was unable to bring the engine up to grade with emissions standards, so TTC had to switch engines on new buses
dyip90 4 years ago
@Kenster1025 Because the first batch of these buses have Detroit Diesel!
AirCanadaA55555A 1 month ago
I don't mind the Orion VII's that much. At first I wasn't a big fan. In fact, I still dislike the look of the exterior (though the revision should fix this), but interior is quite nice. I like how there is minimal distance between windows and how high they go, really makes the interior feel much more open. Also there is excellent standing room as well. I do wish there was less bench seats, but as long as you hold on to a bar it isn't too bad.
Electrify85 4 years ago
And now I come to find out that TTC ain't the only one with Orion 7s with Cummins ISL and Allison B400R......
Turns out my very own JFK Airport has a mix of the same Orion 7s and the Hybrid versions too! Now I'm feening to ride the ISLs!!
ENYoriginal 4 years ago
They have Orion VII on Bathurst too, wow, is the TTC really going replace all the classic TTC buses.
1torontofan 4 years ago
Unfortunately, its the VII invasion. Hold up, why am I saying VII invasion? I like the Cummins ISL/B400R combo. I hate the DD S50EGR/B400R combo
ttcgeek 4 years ago
2 questions 1. why unfortunately, and 2.whats a DD S50EGR/B400R?
1torontofan 4 years ago
1. TTC used to have one of the most diverse bus fleets, but now is slowly becoming monotonous with all Orion VII.
2. DD S50EGR = Detroit Diesel S50EGR engine, B400R = Allison World B400R transmission
dyip90 4 years ago
So your say they should have a viarity or wide selection?
1torontofan 4 years ago
Right now, they have a wide variety, but due to new bus purchases, most of the fleet is one type of bus.
dyip90 4 years ago
Oh ok.
1torontofan 4 years ago
The older buses should not be retired, these buses coming in should be used for service increases to increase the fleet. The ttc needs 2 more garages a lot of buses are parked outside. Love to see more gmc fishbowl bus, classic and new flyer bus videos made while they are still running.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Oh and thank you for queastion 2.
1torontofan 4 years ago
Theres no orion bashing I just do not like the idea types of buses are being fased out that should be in service much longer being rebuilt again. Ttc had a very interesting bus fleet your right, very diverse. Thats a big reason ridership was so high. The ttc was fun to take.
newflyer500 4 years ago
The only thing I'm bashing the DD S50EGR/ Allison B400R VIIs. Thats the only think I'm bashing. Anyways, dyip90 couldn't careless on how much I hate them
ttcgeek 4 years ago
Or do I? :P
I jsut want all comments to stay clean, no weird "super-rebuilding" that Newflyer500 refers to, or anything against other buses (who knows - you could tick off someone who likes those buses). e.g I like the VII, VI, and V; it annoys me to see people say "VII sucks" or something of the sort without further evidence.
dyip90 4 years ago
But I'm not going nuts over the S50EGR VIIs. I;m not saying "THOSE VIIs! SUCK!" The reason why I say "bashing" is because I just dislike them. Nothing more.
ttcgeek 4 years ago
I also do not 100 percent like V7s. Number one they do not look as good. not as looking from the left side. Thats aero dynamic for you, more like ugly dynamic but the v7s are not that bad. 400,000 dollars each they cost. lowfloor, low capacity not as safe inferior construction.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Hi how are you doing I think you are a great guy, nice videos keep them coming. Withs wrong with rebuilding the gmc classics, fishbowl buses, newflyer buses, nova hf buses, orion hf buses along with the ones in storage. New flyer 1997 lowfloor buses should be rebuilt also and kept in service 8 more years. Rebuilding a bus costs 100,000 to 150,000 dollars a bus.
newflyer500 4 years ago
You said yesterday the fleet is becoming monotomous with eventually one type of bus. Jump on the band wagon of wanting other buses rebuilt they are great buses. The fleet stays diverse and interesting and great. v7s coming in should be only to increase the fleet to make service increases.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Monotonous does not imply a bad system. In fact, with the fleet becoming the same, they can save on parts and labour, as it's much cheaper to buy parts in bulk and rebuild one type of bus than it is to do many different ones.
dyip90 4 years ago
It does the v7s are not as good looking as the gmc fishbowl buses, the classics and the new flyer high floor buses. Not as will built. v7s are low capacity less seating and I do like to get a seat yes with out feeling like I"m practically sitting on the pavement. Remember the lesson the new york city transit learned in 1982 when the grummond flexibles collapsed became unsafe and had to be taken out of service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Pointing out all the negative aspects of the Orion VII gets you nowhere. They fulfill their job. Their job its to transport people. New looks can no longer do taht as efficiently due to their outdated engines. Say you had to get somewhere quickly through public transit. An Orion VII could get you there in 5 mintues, while a GM New Look with an extremely pollutive engine gets you there in 10. What would you choose? Outdated technology or fast, modern technology?
dyip90 4 years ago
The gmc buses best buses and can rum much longer they are great buses. The ttc has made a lot bad decisions result bad advice favoring orion, ikarus buses flops. 300 artic buses from gm 1982 to 1986.
newflyer500 4 years ago
electric trolley buses should of been kept with new buses bought from new flyer in 1989, 1990 with wire system totally overhauled. eliminated because of bad provincial advice. service cuts low floor buses bought to cut para transit service fare increases product of el cheapo mike harris mulruney and mell lastman. el cheapo conservetives only for rich.
newflyer500 4 years ago
orion buses bought 1991 to 1992 should of been for service increases. orion buses bought in 1996 to 97 the high floor ones should of been for service increases only.
newflyer500 4 years ago
I understand what your saying but, take this for an example. How do you think it would feel if you went into your closet to see 1000s of one pair of shoes to wear(I know I'm overagesgerating (sorry I don't know I to spell that, don't laugh at me), but you get my I mean). Sorry, I don't know about you, but I need viarity.
1torontofan 4 years ago
1991 all buses older than 1983 should of been rebuilt with another one in 1999. The should be rebuilt and kept in service 8 more years starting this summer. Toronto needs to pave blacktop smooth all the bumpy roads. bumps ruin all vehicles. a product of el cheapo paul martin and his cuts.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Big shame toronto fan I do not like the v7 invaision. I use to avoid the 7 bathhurst line a lot of times and take the 160 bathhurst north line to wilson station, the subway, than a crosstown bus to double back. Their coming in should be only for service increases not to mafia other buses out into retirement or back in storage.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Bathurst use to have those ugly Orion VIs. They got a nice sound but the look of them did not appeal. It is a shame, I mean if they ever retire the GM Newlook, then me and the TTC have some talking to do. I think they should have a wide verity of buses not just only one pair. It's like going into a closet and finding only one pair of shoes to wear.
1torontofan 4 years ago
Hi toronto fan dyip agrees did not rebuttal me pointing out the negative aspects of the v7s. He said who cares as long as it is a bus that does the job. We care thousands of other riders care. The gmc new look buses have great looks inside and out, sound great and does the job great. I have always had great rides on the gmc new look buses. How long the ride takes depends on the amount of traffic, riders getting on and off at stops. You do not want the driver driving like a maniac.
newflyer500 4 years ago
I disagree.
dyip90 4 years ago
*quote* We care thousands of other riders care *quote*. So what you're insinuating is that the average rider actually pays attention and cares about how the bus looks or sounds like? Here's a reality check-
1)people like you are the only ones who care anything about a bus. Why? Because you're a transit enthusiast. Come on, try talking about this to the average person and they'll look at you like "you're weird" or "you're obsessed".
garciab006 4 years ago 2
Not true. I know that they are the best buses ever made. They run great. I agree they cannot be rebuilt over and over again forever doing heavy duty use, but can be rebuilt after every 6 years of use up to 32 years of use. They can be rebuilt after that and used 8 more years up to 38 years of usage. The last time only doing rushhour service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Most of the gmc new look buses are made 1982 to 1983 the ttc has. A lot of them wher in storage not being used from 1994 to 1997. That means 1982 to 1997 they wher only used 12 years. The ones that wher rebuilt went back in service 1998 to 2001. As of now a lot of those buses wher only used 19 to 21 years of service. They can be rebuilt 1 more time and used for 8 more years of heavy duty service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
As far as you saying ther outdated engines polluting the environment buses are part of the solution not the problem. Polution in Toronto is caused by the 20s of thousands of cars ran in the area every day either pasing through or in the city. The solution to this is more transit service. lower fares and better Via rail service and better rail freight service. Better Go transit service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
3)The old buses CANNOT be rebuilt again and again. As they're rebuilt, they're prone to deteriorate even more. Yes, so maybe the new looks were made out of better material to last a few years longer, but NOT to last forever. Be thankful they're still here, even with their outdated engines polluting the environment.
garciab006 4 years ago
4) Accessibility IS an issue. Even if the TTC were to equip lifts on the new looks, they would have a pretty hard time looking for parts. And custom parts will need to be made, which costs lots of money. The reason why were getting Low Floors/VIIs because the whole idea is BASED on safety, not because it's a laze issue with stairs. Low Floors also save time and the environment.
garciab006 4 years ago
Garcia how are lowfloor buses safer. They are not safer. On low floor buses you are riding at the same height as cars. What makes buses safer is you are much higher than cars in case one smashes in. Number 2 there is only 33 seats. The gmc new look buses have 40 seats. People like me like to get a seat. Sitting you are less likely to get pickpocketed or to fall. Again the high floor buses are safer and can be made again. Low floor buses are 400,000 dollars a pop and I"m tired of fare increases.
newflyer500 4 years ago
It does not explain the accessibility issue
garciab006 4 years ago
You are focusing on accessibility. The handicapped and walking challenged should be transported mainly on wheeltrans service porto to porto what wheeltrans service tripled. Making handicapped wait at bus stops and make connections is terrible and they are big crime targets.
newflyer500 4 years ago
The buses that do have wheelchair lifts and there are plenty should be used on the top 40 routes where there are the most wheeltrans pickups and dropoffs nearby.
newflyer500 4 years ago
And your pet peeve about being the same height as cars--Because the new looks have been rebuilt so many times and are more prone to deterioration, they can screw up majorly at any time, which makes them no safer than Orion VIIs. It appears to you that floor height and weight of the vehicle is what makes New Looks safer, but that's only as far as you go.
garciab006 4 years ago
Pollution issues. All buses Pre-DDC S50 contribute their fair share to it, and diesel engines use a hell lot of power (more smoke;]) What is your vision of this mega-rebuild program. All older buses? That would bring us to about 375. So, the 375 should replace the VIIs, I suppose. Let's see, 375 Heavy Diesels against 374 Hybrids+100 Light Diesels... That's right so I guess Eliminating Hybrids and Light Diesels to be replaced be heavy diesels are your brilliant solution to our pollution problem.
garciab006 4 years ago
Sir the buses the ttc already has here will stay. If all 375 of these buses the ttc has running and in storage are rebuilt that would be great. They could be used for service increases to replace the chepo Mike Harris cuts.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Additional buses are not fully the reason why there are fare hikes. Back in 2004, there was a major token forgery which cut the TTC by 4 Billion. Older buses also need to be maintained more drastically, which costs more and more money., and this would increase by a lot if New Looks were rebuilt again, and the maintenance costs would eventually overpass the cost of a new bus. And more and more people are sticking to the metropass, uh-oh!
garciab006 4 years ago
Whats wrong what people sticking to metropass. The subsedys chepo Mike harris cut needs to be replaced. New buses cost 400,000 dollars a pop. Rebuilding the older buses and using correct preventive maintnancing will not cost that much. Mechanics are paid no mather what. The bombed out streets and roads need to be all paved smooth.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Nothing is wrong with the metropass,except for when more and more people use it instead of paying cash or tickets, then they're losing money and revenue down the road. You say rebuilding the older buses and using correct preventive maintenance will not cost that much. Heres your problem, you have any idea how much diesel a 6V71N engine chugs as opposed to an ISB hybrid?Money,money,money. Besides with buses almost reaching 30 years its INEVITABLE to prevent constant maintenance on them.
garciab006 4 years ago
Again, with the accessibility issue. A bus needs to be replaced every so often just so that the passengers can get the modern conveniences such as A/C and better heating. You also say the bombed out streets and roads need to be paved smooth. Okay, you know how much that will cost for the city and the government?Considering how many crappy roads there are in TO, that would surpass the amount of money used for buying new buses.
garciab006 4 years ago
. So, youre calling Mike Harris cheap. Okay, so maybe he wasn't the best premier, but you can't go around calling people cheap without knowing how to pay for it all: cost of rebuilding stored buses+finding of parts+maintenance+paving roads-The list goes on...
garciab006 4 years ago
And I forgot to point out 2)The TTC has no choice but to buy LFs. They're extremely cash-strapped, so the government funds them. Even if they wanted to buy HFs, they couldn't because the Government demands all LF, therefore it's not advice. On another note, It is not Orion's Fault that the III and the VIs were retired early. The Frames and design were made by Ikarus, Orion just the seller. The VIs were retired early not because they were crap, the used CNG technology that was inconvertible.
garciab006 4 years ago
5) There's nothing you can do about the fishbowls disappearing. GM stopped making buses, and putting them back in production would cost billions. They're finished, and that's the way it's gonna be.
garciab006 4 years ago
The v7s do not have the looks. The great sound the gmc new look buses have. Low capacity, less seating. I do not think the ttc is going to be crazy and just unilateraly just get rid of them for those not as good v7s.
newflyer500 4 years ago
There is 253 gmc new look buses. With I think is going to happen from studying the ttc is the 50 percent that are in the best shape will stay in service. The 50 percent taken out, the 20 best buses that will get a tune up and back in service. half of the buses left in that 50 percent that are not the best ones in that bunch will probably be sripped for their parts, body parts and seats. other half will be put in storage.
newflyer500 4 years ago
So for now the future looks a little bright, right?
1torontofan 4 years ago
I think so I have studied the ttc enough, they are not dumb even though they have made a lot of bad moves due to bad provincial advice favoring orion and subsudy cuts from cheapo mulruny, mike harris and paul martin. One thing the ttc does not like to do is being wasteful so I think the future is bright but we should find out the adresses and email adresses of the people that matter and write to them and make sure.
newflyer500 4 years ago
The ones running they are all going to be rebuilt again in the summer and kept in service 8 more years. The other ones in storage 60 percent will be rebuilt and put back in service using the same criteria. Same with the new flyer buses. All the gmc classic buses will be rebuilt, along with the nova hf buses and the new flyer lowfloor buses. They should do service increases which they will be able to do. Get 20,000 less cars on, streets big decrease, traffic pollution.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Only the Nova RTS High Floors are being rebuilt along with the New Flyer D40LF's because they're accessible. The rest - will be killed off when new buses come.
dyip90 4 years ago
I do not think so that would be dumb and very crazy. A lot of the gmc new look buses have only ran in service 25 to 28 years old, some even less and are now in storage. They can be rebuilt and runned 8 more years. the gmc mci classics can along with the new flyer hf buses why not. why are you so much aganst. The orion high floor buses should all ve rebuilt.
newflyer500 4 years ago
The Orion V already have been rebuilt.
dyip90 4 years ago
the gmc fishbowl buses and new flyer buses can be rebuilt also. There needs to be 100 para transit vehicles added to wheel trans fleet with service to handicapped and walking challenged getting service porto to porto. Province should cover 90 percent of the cost plus reinburse the ttc for the half fares seniors and disabled get. with that done ttc has almost no deficet at all oh province should reimburse ttc for the money they lose charging student fares.
newflyer500 4 years ago
I"m going to comment on the accessible issue. 100 paratransit vehicles should be added to the wheeltrans fleet giving service porto to porto to the handicapped and walking challenged. 15 more community bus routes should be added serving scarboro, etobocoke and north york 1 in the danforth area where most of the eldery population lives. I'm going to comment further on this issue. El cheapo mike harris tried to kill this service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
The orion wheel chair lift equipped buses, low floor buses that are presently in fleet should serve routes that have a lot of wheeltrans pickups and dropoffs in the viccinity. runs where more than 30 people get on totally in a trip should not be served by lowfloor buses because of the seating and capacity issues.
newflyer500 4 years ago
no more new buses should be added to the fleet it is a waste of money when the buses presently in the fleet and in storage can be rebuilt and kept in service more cheaply. I"m sick and tired along with other riders of paying fare increases for glitz. These new buses are waste of money. some should of been bought.
newflyer500 4 years ago
I said glitz, these low capacity not as well built buses do not deserve that word. the gmc new look buses are way better. Get set to hear a lot of cranking. The orion buses break down alot wit mechanical issues. orion buses are not as well built as the gmc buses.
newflyer500 4 years ago
There is safety issues with the low floor buses. The hf buses are safer because you are sitting above cars and mini vans, suvs low floor buses sitting at same height as cars and mini vans suvs . One hits at 20 or more niles a hour your talking possibly multiple casualtys deaths cripplements because of these experimental rejects that should not be on the road.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Getting back to the accessibility issue and stupid move ttc has made because of bad provincial advice favoring orion sacred political cow. mike harris and his subsydie cuts killed the eglington subway extension. money being spent on these orions should be used to get that built. mike harris cut wheeltrans service making eldery and handicapped wait at freezing!!!!!!!!!!! cold bus stops making connections.
newflyer500 4 years ago
bus routes had massive service cuts 1994 to 97 thanks to good old cheapo buddy mike harris who put a car dealership man in as transportation commissioner or mass transit assasen paul martin helped that cause. electric trolley buses taken off so orion could sell natural gas buses. stupid move. natural gas buses should of been used along with other new bus acusitions to increase fleet service increases. All of the old buses 1n 1992 should of been rebuilt kept in service.
newflyer500 4 years ago
And thats a nice reference "mafia the other buses" HA.
1torontofan 4 years ago
1torontofan I have news for you. I read in yesterdays new york post that the orion7 buses are repeatedly breaking down with mechanical failures. No low floor bus that I know of has lasted more than 10 years. Orion has not fixed the problem. New york city transit is spending 200,000 dollars for a consultant.
newflyer500 4 years ago
HAHA that is so funny. What are the problems?
1torontofan 4 years ago
New york city they are having repeated problems with the power generators. How fuel efficient can they be by being hybreds. By the way they sound not much plus I seen a big puff of black smoke coming from one of them ha ha ha!!! so funny. Those orions man do they crank a lot when they will not start. I saw a black girl bus driver cranking one the other day in manhatten a orion7. ttc should rebuild the proven gmc newlook buses, classics, new flyer hf buses, to run 8 more years.
newflyer500 4 years ago
with do you think. I think that is great because it will mean the gmc new look buses staying.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Thats good to hear. I only wish the NewFlyers where here to see it. And again just to say it again, I don't hate Orions, I mean there not my fav but oh well, I just perfer Newflyers. I just don't like how there sticking to only one bus when they can buy other different brands to, why only have one pair of shoes to wear, if you get what I mean.
1torontofan 4 years ago
Your right, orions do not have the looks because they try to make them aero dynamic. aero dynamic results in looks that are aero dynugly. they are hungarion japanese styled buses that do not last as long, low quality, low capacity. bombardier, new flyer, gmc newlooks are the best buses, best transit mamufacturers.
newflyer500 4 years ago
You got that right. Especially the New Flyer d40lfr/DE40lfr/C40lfr and all the rest of them that are restyled.
ECDT1089 4 years ago
Grand River Transit's 1992 D40LF have lasted 15 years now.
dyip90 4 years ago
the unproven lowfloor orion7 buses should not have been bought in such large awesome numbers. ttc and new york city transit in 2003 and on should of just rebuilt all the rts classics and gmc new look buses and keep them in service 8 more years. The orion7 buses are going to be a flop just like the grumman flexible buses wher in 1980 for new york city transit. any orion7 buses purchases should of been just for service increases and not busy trips.
newflyer500 4 years ago
Im a big orion basher!!!!Ha HaHaHa The best buses ever made with the best looks is the gmc fishbowl buses and classics and new flyer high floor buses.
newflyer500 5 years ago
I can confirm that is definely a B400R. Here in Montreal, all of the new NovaLFS are equipped with the ISL + B400R combo. It the same sound :)
nova9403 5 years ago
No it isn't. They are equipped with ZF 5HP552C.
general682002 5 years ago
Sorry, since STM buys 6-speed, 6HP552C.
general682002 5 years ago
It has an Allison B400R?
So how come it pulled out like a ZF-Ecomat 4HP-500? (meaning low idle)
ENYoriginal 5 years ago