Teaching the GAME or NOT? or "UMPIRES R NOT US"

[BgGav2020]

Thats me in that video. The ball was pitched over my head and no I wasn't going to swing at it then or now. Our team and a lot of others in our area already knew how to make contact with the baseball. Inside or outside a few inches I would have swung but over my head no way.

[kalelane]

happens all the time, hard to watch, depends on who is on and how many outs, sometimes you call for agressive hitting

[Bagel601]

A retort on my post a bit. Randob you have a valid point about "hurting" the kids in the long run. Baseball is a "finese" sports that can be dumbed down for the sake of action (or impatient parents who have to move day to day at light speed). This youngster looks to be very sure of what he is and\or is not looking for in a pitch. I will stand behind this however,game to game is different. Along with teaching the "zone" the coach needs to teach adjustment, every ump is different as is every game.

[randobo60]

This particular kid was on a team that is taught from "knees to numbers" and not nose to toes as one person mentioned below. They actually learn the zone early.

The kid in question hit about 50 homeruns from 6 - 8 with the longest measuring about 280 ft at age 8.

They start coaching and playing in this particular area at ages 3 and 4 with a very high number playing kid pitch ball when they're still six and going on seven.

The clip was posted in fun and not from an "outraged" parent.

[randobo60]

This same group of kids are nine (9) now and are on two different teams primarily and hit the ball deeper and on a line better than many Little Leaguers I've seen on t.v. in older divisions and some are already throwing in the 50's plus.

[Bagel601]

Let's put all things in prospective! We are watching (if my count is right) 5 actual pitches out of an estimated 108 pitches thrown in a LL game (average of 6 pitches\batter x 3 batters per 6 innings). Out of 5 pitches 2 are in question... "Get swinging Little Johnny!" it is a LL game and at this level coaches should be teaching their players to make contact instead of the "zone". So what if Little Johnny goes down with a banger at first at least he didn't go down looking.

[3018276800]

I know my zone would be larger ... baseball is a game of adjustments ... if the kids don't adjust then its the coaches fault

[FroggerCod]

You said seven? We're told in our area for U9 (7-8) divisions to call from the toes to the noes. At that age group is hard enough for the pitchers to get the ball over the plate. I'm not saying the ump should take the bat out of the hands of the kid. But that pitcher is all over the place, and if it's close it's a strike. I don't do this age group anymore, but I did when I started. If it was close I told the coaches it would be a strike. Those pitches were close enough for me.

[randobo60]

Refer to "the kid knew the strike zone" posted above.

[buckinkc]

i understand the zone needs to be bigger for little guys who dont have command yet and the ball does travel on an arc. but you also cannot teach kids proper batting if they have to swing at that crap. you are getting paid to ump so do it right or dont do it at all And to thebigapple3 have you ever swung a bat in your life?

[randobo60]

Thanks for the post. LOL, I'm not picking on umps everywhere. It was posted in fun. The kids that are taught the zone early learn it early. The ones that are taught to keep the ball down in the zone and work at it can also do that.

If the ump calls the game right both the pitcher and batter will benefit as long as the coach takes the proper action and teaches his kids correctly.

These kids today are well ahead of us old guys at the same age or at least the ones that are coached are.

[critter2]

the umpire dosent know where the stirke zone is. he watching where the chatcher cathcers it.

[randobo60]

No one came out to argue. That's not even mentioned below.

[randobo60]

thebigapple3 posted this a year ago and I replied but I have to reply again.

It's not teaching a kid the game if it's called nose to toes and you as a coach or umpire expect the kids to swing over their heads.

I have no problem with swinging at lower strikes or making contact with 2 strikes on inside, outside or low a few inches but over the head! I'd never teach it.

Finally! THE COACH WASN'T ARGUING THE CALL. HE WAS TALKING TO THE BATTER.

[randobo60]

A four inch margin from the inside corner to the outer corner is understandable and we taught the kids to guard the plate in such a manner. Yes, it's true that if you work with the kids they can pick it up at an early age.

I wish the same could have been said for this group of umpires.

[critter2]

well here the thing the longer you keep walking them the longer the game is. granted i thought a some were to high but he wasn't too bad.

but if you still there after two hrs cause the kids cant pitch or sit there that long makes it borning

[randobo60]

@critter2 I agree except for one thing. We have a time limit on all of our games.

[randobo60]

We don't play 2 hour games unless it's a tie after the time limit runs out.

[critter2]

@randobo60 i know some local leauges here have 2 hr and 15 minute limit or till it gets to dark.

i can understand why but also what about there ages? and do you guys got to get to a certain innings?

[randobo60]

LOL, I've umpired too and yes I have made mistakes. Never and I mean never have I, or would I ever call either of those pitches a strike in baseball. Not even close.

Has nothing to do with a parent needing to chill or not. Has to do with a coach who's taught their kids not to swing at pitches that are so far out of the strike zone that it's actually stupid.

continued below............

[ThirdTerm]

I can totally relate to this. I've been umpiring for 4 years now and I ump a slightly older group than these kids here. I agree that some umps call the over the head strike too much but when I first started, I did the same thing. But I found out with experience not to call the high strike. No matter what the age. You tend to have less yelling from the stands and coaches if you call stikes that are more out or in. Their angle from the dugout is more up and down, not left to right. Its still fun.

[randobo60]

I agree with you Umpire344. I wonder if it's becaue just not enough people who could or would be "quality" umps are interested or are the younger kids just trying to earn an extra buck umpiring games?

[chuckfan1]

Not a question of "quality" umps. EVERYONE at this stage is learning. These kids have only been out of the womb 7 years, and you say no more than 4 inches? How many 7yo you know can hit that zone? An inch or two off the plate is what I get for Varsity HS,and MAYBE a inch off the plate for college. And you want basically the same zone? The kids are learning, as the coaches, as the umpires. If these umps were better "quality" theyd be doing higher levels This is perfect age appropriate officiating

[randobo60]

Do you persnoally know the umpires in question or the kids on the team that were at bat?

At that time our kids when at the plate were taught to hit that zone. On the other hand our top six pitchers ranged from 40 - 50 mph on the mound and had great success at doing so.

[FroggerCod]

Yes, I agree. People need to know everyone is learning at this level. As a high school umpire in massachusetts, I too call about two inches off the plate during a varsity game. We're not in the MLB.

[randobo60]

LOL! No one said any of these umps are MLB or are supposed to be. The point is that this was a competitive ball team out of an area that is known for it's baseball.

The kid batting knew the zone and the ump didn't. Very simple really. We also call off the plate inside and out about two to three inches at that level but never in the eyes.

[umpire344]

Yea you are right I must say alot of associations just put anybody out there on this age level. Most of the umpires out there are not trained right by there umpire group. I live in Alpharetta Ga and I feel we spend alot of time with the new guys to make sure they have a clue before we send them out there.Some guys get it and some dont. It is a different story when your out in the field verses when your umpiring from the stands.When your new its easy to get intimidated.

[randobo60]

This same group of umpires called one of our kids SAFE in what should have been a force at second. The runner slid into second, the shortstop for the other team had already tagged the bag and was throwing to first when the ump called our kid safe. When questioned by the opposing coach the ump said "he didn't tag him".

I know umps are human too and I've been there but it's does get a little ridiculous when this is or was a common occurence this past spring / summer.

[chuckfan1]

As for this play, if it happened as you describe, then yes he got it wrong. But again, all participants at this level are learning. This is where kids boot groundballs theyre supposed to catch, they will get better. This is where pitchers make bad pitches, they will get better. This is where the coaches make wrong strategy decisions, they will get better. And yes, this is where umpires mess up easy calls, they will get better. At 7 years old level, its about learning. For ALL involved. Ease up.

[randobo60]

Hi,

No need to ease up. LOL, I'm being easy. This was the third of three kids called out this same game with attempted changeups thrown well well out of the strike zone and over the batters head.

I haven't posted the worst of the video that I've taken yet and don't plan on it. This first one is more of a "OMG" than the others. The others are "My God do they even know the basic rules of baseball"

... :)

[randobo60]

p.s. chuckfan1

Did you hear the last coach say "Oh My God" and not too loudly at that. Our team didn't tend to cause a lot of fuss. Too professional for that as coaches and parents.

The calls still tick me off because if you'll watch the path of those balls they weren't even strikes in slow pitch softball.

[chuckfan1]

"Tick you off"? Geez...these are just kids! Over time, the age of the kids where its just about winning keeps getting younger and younger. And now down to 7 year olds. What a shame. Ticks you off? Do you want a major league strike zone? Youd be out there 5 hours. A college strike zone? 4 hours. A high school zone? 3 1/2 hours. If the umpire balled ALL the pitches that are true balls as defined by the rule book zone, you are smart enough to know, 8-9 pitches would be balls. Is that what you want?

[randobo60]

LOL, The point is the pitch wasn't a four inch off the plate call, they were both over his head. You're right, this particular team plays competitive and they were 7. Two or three of the pitchers throw between 47 and 49 or 50.

We were told the umps would call balls remotely close a strike to get the batter to be more aggressive. These are not remotely close.

I'm not missing a point. The pitches weren't close enough to even swing at. Maybe by those that haven't been taught to hit.

[critter2]

i know another video used part of this video if i am not mistken to show the umpire was calling a stirke where the ball lands. not were it crosses the plate.

this wasn't even close nor would i ever call that pitch a stirke. and i started off in calripken doing bases only than went to little leauge. now i do babruth/calripken

[randobo60]

Thanks critter2.

I honestly am not trying to offend anyone with the video clip or the caption. I posted it in fun. The balls were not close to being strikes and the kid at the plate knew it.

It all goes back to being competitive or just playing the game to be playing it. You can be very competitive, excel at a very young age and still have a great deal of fun doing it.

btw, the ump isn't at that park any longer. It wasn't his "cup of tea" so to speak.

[critter2]

@randobo60 go find him and tell him to stop watching the catchers glove. lol don't worry you run into another like him.

[randobo60]

In reply to the above post I understand what you're saying if the pitch is within a couple of inches inside, outside, low or slightly high but those two pitches were more than a tad bit out of the strik zone. Now if we were playing tennis I could understand him swinging at them.

I've been there and also understand the need to learn to swing at the closer "balls" at this age group.

It aids both the batter and helps the speed of the game.

[umpire344]

I umpire baseball and also supervise umpires.I can say that I started at this level and you just cant win as a homeplate umpire with the small kids. You have to call strikes otherwise it would just be walk after walk after walk.You just try to call anything close a strike.