God IS good...very good. Man is evil. Mans interpretation of good is twisted as he is twisted.
1. God waited 400 years with the Amelikites and Egyptians and generation after generation of people were evil just like their fathers. Should God have judged them all after 40 years? Should God hve waited another 400 years ?
2. Yall judge God and know nothing and are evil, yall want and deserve hell and hell is what u will get.
@j919or - !st, just reply to me, so I know you responded. 2nd, don't think threats work on persons who aren't threatened of what it is that keeps you in line. Isn't it amazing that you actually think YHWH wants loyalty to Him, and even wants that so much, He lined up an extreme punishment for those who don't choose His way. Who created Hell, and when was it created? And you're sitting here thinking God is good? Laughable...& you've answered nothing, but think you have the truth. Wake up!!
@j919or - CONTINUED----- I've learned one thing in life. If a product boldly states UNBREAKABLE, then it can be broken. Also, when someone is trying to withold knowledge from you, they are trying to take advantage of you. It should be blarringly clear that the Elohim ( do you know who the Elohim are?) are jealous of mankinds abilities, so they didn't want man to be able to live without being dependant on them. If man could live forever, and know what the Elohim did, the Elohim's gig is up!!!
Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where YHWH was-Ex 20:21
Hmmm. I remember you stating that darkness happens when YHWH removes Himself. Do you still stand by that statement, when you're own bible disagrees with you?
The only way to get light out of YHWH is to set Him on fire!
Like I said, in your own "inspired" bible, you have YHWH being the start of a lie. Why would YHWh call a meeting in the heavens to ask a lying spirit to do a favor for YHWH, and lie to a puny human being on earth, so that the human dies. Also, YHWH was very pleased that someone was going to lie for Him. Thinking caps on.
YHWH is very much involved in darkness, no matter what the metaphor.
Rather God gave Micaiah a vision to explain to Him how the prophets that Ahab chose were lying prophets that were permitted to lie by God.
The context was that Ahab rejected the word of the Lord for a more favorable word. God permitted a spirit to give those prophets lies to tell Ahab, because Ahab rejected the word of the Lord. You also rejected the word of the Lord and now are also plunged into confusion and grave danger.
@j919or When the bible speaks of YHWH sending an evil spirit, or a lying spirit, the context was meant for the reader to take that literally. If YHWH is truly the 1st cause, KNOWING in advance that evil would spread, it's like a parent putting a kid in the room with a knife on the floor. If the parent KNEW the kid would injure/kill himself, wouldn't the parent be responsible? Sure would. I reject the buy bull because logic rejects the buy bull. Busy, but will deal with that scripture later.
@j919or I see that when the bible says YHWH called a meeting in the heavens, you take it to mean that YHWH is giving a vision. I guess, in the beginning of Job, the meeting that YHWH had in heavens when Satan came from roving about on the earth was a vision too.
If so, then why would YHWH still be behind a vision that shows Him getting the wheels going on starting a lie to be told to a mere human? Why would YHWH show Himself happy with this? Isn't YHWH acting petty like Zues here? Yes.
Be honest. How can you SACRIFICE your life, while KNOWING you get your life back even faster than it takes for me to inhale once?
Why do dodgers of important questions think they're winning? You are truly the one stuck in deception, & I see you're set to stay there. Here's a thing about truth, and lies. Only lies run from truth. Truth never runs from lies. You've been dodging ( running away from) some very telling imformation. CONT-
@RODikUlus ""faster than it takes for me to inhale once?""
I told you that God is outside of time and eternal. God created time and space and therefore must be outside of time and space but still able to relate within time and space.
@strengthinweakness1 - Is heaven outside of space and time? Where do the host of other spirit creatures dwell? Do you not realize that if there is no time, there is no before, after, or present. There is no creature that can lay claim to creating other creatures who exist in this timeless realm. You see, every entity living outside of time can see the end and the beginning at the same time. Also, if spirits exist there, none of them were created. There is no beginning. They ALL just existed.
@RODikUlus "Is heaven outside of space and time? "
Its a different dimension called the heavenly realm. I cant understand it all except that when the Holy Spirit entered me this incredible joy filled me did too. I wish ud ask God to take ur life forever and change u from evil to good.
@j919or - If you're speaking form experience, why can't you understand that if all spirit creatures can exist outside of time & space, that ALL of them have the ability to know what we call past, present, & future, as they live in an enviroment where everything happens simultaneously. What you're not seeing, is that a "God" doesn't need to exist in an enviroment like this. With no beginning, nothing needed a creator. Only things bound by time are familiar with a concept called creation.
j919or- If you can't show any actual sacrifice on Jesus part, and can't even fathom how a person that is supposed to be counted as DEAD has the ability to consciously resurrect their own selves...then consider yourself crushed.
We never made it to the RANSOM portion, and how that's a bold faced lie from a sick YHWH who doesn't know what freely forgivng really means...but expects his followers to do it. LOL
@RODikUlus ""counted as DEAD has the ability to consciously resurrect their own selves""
Jesus was with the Father instantly upon death. God is outisde of time and so u cant understand the suffering of God in absorbing evil from a time perspective.
@j919or - You confused yourself with this explaination. How was Jesus dead for 3 days if he never was dead? Furthermore, explain how evil is the absence of YHWH, yet YHWH CREATES a tree that housed both good & evil...at the same time within the same object?!?!
Outside of time is a concept that your church tells you. They're full of them. If you ever though about it, there is no before or after in an enviroment outside of time. What we call past, present, & future would happen simultaneously.
@j919or- It seems I put too much on your plate. I was going to get into the abortion, rape, and even the lies endorsed by YHWH. All in the bible. Don't believe that Hosea is the only scripture concerning that vile act against undeserving helpless ones. Now, explain how Jesus was dead for 3 days outside of time, and knew how to be just dead enough to ressurect himself on the 3rd day? I can easily do the abortion, lying, & stuff after we deal with this, & how there was no RANSOM SACRIFICE!!!
@j919or- I think you should have answered how could Jesus be dead for 3 days, yet be concious enough to know that 3 days have past, so that he knows he has to ressurect himself. Explain.
Also, how can you call the biblical Jesus scenerio a "sacrifice", if all he's doing is knowingly taking advantage of an opportunity?
Could you sacrifice your life, if you KNEW that your getting your life right back? The dynamics change when knowledge is present- there is no sacrifice! U beLIEve a LIE!!
@j919or- AGAIN- Tell me how Jesus could SACRIFICE his life, KNOWING in advance, that he will get his life right back!!!
In no way is a scenerio like that a sacrifice of any sort. It is an opportunity!! It's like being given illegal insider information on the stock market, and using that info to gain over others without that knowledge. In that scenerio there is no risk. If you KNEW that giving up a dollar today would give you $3 million in 3 days, what did you sacrifice? please explain.
@RODikUlus ""that he will get his life right back!!!""
You judge on the basis of what u see. God sees the eternal and He is not limited to time. Hence His suffering can be an eternal suffering but which appears as only a blip in time. So we see the tip of the iceberg while God sees the eternal weight of absorbing the evil of the universe in Himself.
@j919or - "not limited to time"...I see you're going all over the place here. Do the 3 days have anything to do with time? How long would 3 days be outside of time? If Jesus never died for 3 days, then everything the Christian faith hinges on is imaginary.
This is not a complicated question. If Jesus actually sacrificed his LIFE, how was he conscious enough to know that 3 days have past, so that he resurrected himself? How does a truly dead person know how much time past by while they're dead?
@j919or- CONT... Now, do you have another RESPECTED source for deciphering hebrew text accurately? If not, & if you don't claim to know any hebrew, hang it up!! Isa 45:7 context of "ra" is "evil". I can see you don't like when the truth stares you in the face. You're looking like the college boy...do your research. Why would YHWH admit to CREATING darkness& evil?
Now, if a scholarly Hebrew work shows what I said to be right, why can't you let it be simple. Your pride is a bitch.
Darkness is the absense of light and is not a thing. Neither is evil for evil is the absence of good. The hebrew word has 2 meanings, one of which is natural disaster. Look it up. God need only withdraw him sustaining hand and protective hand for all types of evil to occur.
@j919or - So then Light is the absence of darkness, but that is NOT true. Light & darkness exist together all the time. Do you have a dimmable light?
I guess God created "the tree of the knowledge of good and natural disaster" in your bible, huh? C'mon...be honest with yourself. I asked you to give me a respected reference if you wanted to continue this particular debate. I did, & my resource shows that "ra" means the root meaning of evil. You are complicating the issue by not accepting it.
@j919or - No, a hebrew interlinear or anything on the order of the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon is a respectable source. The bible the JW's use say "calamity". Other bibles say "woe". Yours happens to say "natural disaster", but none of those have the import of the word "evil". Do you say Satan is natural disaster, or do you say that Satan is calamity. NO! You say that Satan is evil. So does the Hebrew Lexicon. Stop being the evil one here, by continuing a lie.
@RODikUlus ""Do you say Satan is natural disaster""
No. Because thecontext determines the usage. There are two possible meanings of RA and the context determines the usage. Youve been lied to by the book of contradictions ABOUT ISAIAH 45.7. The lexicon is not that book. Go splash some cold water on ur face, that might help.
@j919or - There are more than 2 possible meanings for "ra". The Strong's Hebrew Lexicon breaks down how many different forms of this word can apply in various circumstances. It even does so by particular scripture. Did you know that? It breaks down which scripture means what according to the HEBREW context. I KNOW the Hebrew Lexicon is not a misleading book, just like you say. That's why you should accept what it says on ISAIH 45:7. It breaks down the meaning as EVIL in that very verse.
@j919or - If you want to call Strong's Hebrew Lexicon a book on contradictions, you really need to be laughed at. I know what is positive, & I know what is negative. This video exposes the negativety of YHWH. Even affecting unborn babies. A perfect God doesn't need to go that route.
Light and darkness co-exist. Take a dimmable light. When the light isn't 100%, ( when is it truly 100&?) you have to accept that a percentage of darkness exist in the same room the light is in. Sunset & sunrise.
@RODikUlus To the degree that light shines is the degree that darkness is dispelled. Of course there are degrees. Even in black and white there are degree. Even in the blackest black and brightest bright there are degrees.
@j919or - Good to see that you agree with me here. Yes, light and darkness exist even in the same space. If God is light, according to your belief, then how much light issues forth from YHWH when he had his prophets write down those encouraging words to his followers about graphically destroying an child, or even killing the mother along with the developing fetus in one blow? How bright?
@j919or "When there are two meanings to a word the context determines the usage." Do you really think you are defeating the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon on a subject you know nothing about? You're on it's turf. Stop trying so hard at failing!!! YHWH creates darkness & evil. He must remove himself in order to let peace, & light to form. It is YHWH who hardens hearts ( yours), sends evil spirits, and lying spirits. YHWH is the source of deciet. YHWH=abortion. Don't you just love this video?
@j919or - I'm curious. Name exactly what you mean by natural disaster. Break it down, and state some of them. Do you mean tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, & tsunamis?
@j919or - The word PEACE isn't a word with vague meaning. However, saying "natural disaster" is actually a vague statement. This is a reason that "natural disaster" isn't an actual opposite. In fact, Hebrew's Strong Lexicon breaks down the word "ra", and it can mean heavy, affliction, pain, etc. There are many meanings that show more than 2 possibilties. So, why is it that Strong's Hebrew Lexicon broke down the meaning of "ra" in ISAIAH 45:7 to mean it root of EVIL? You tell me.
@RODikUlus how happy you'll be when you rip open a pregnant womans belly, or dash children against rocks so hard, there body dismantles? Sick, sick ""
Nah. You are the sick one. God spoke of the deeds of the coming hordes of unbelievers and their evil dasterdly gross acts of violence, which BTW is the reason God flooded the earth.
1. No where does God command this
2. You are evil and twist the blame for this evil to God
3. You are nothing but chemicals formed to be a tool of satan and all evil
@j919or - actually wanted to deal with that in more depth later, as I really wanted to concentrate on the issue of what a sacrifice is, and how the Jesus biblical scenerio doesn't equate to one. It seems I made my point clear, as you'd rather defend the word "ra", or how abortion isn't backed by YHWH. Did I say it was a command from God? No, I said God encouraged it. Did you read the accounts elsewhere in the bible about abortion being encouraged by YHWH? Chemical jokes don't offend me:>)
@j919or - WOW! It appears the question I posed is too much. Why did you use such an absence of humility when telling me I'll be crushed? It's actually you who has been crushed in this debate. All I used is logic to crush you. I used to lie to myself when I was a Christian, and you're doing it to yourself right now. How can you tell? Here's how:
Could you SACRIFICE your life, if you KNEW that you're getting your life right back? Is that scenerio a SACRIFICE or an OPPORTUNITY. Be honest please.
@j919or - Ezekiel 14:9- "And if the prophet be DECIEVED, I Jehovah have DECIEVED that prophet,..." WOW!! YHWH actively decieves prophets, and admits to it! The hebrew word translated "decieved" is "pathah". Newer bibles try and use the word "fooled", or "tricked". See Stong's Hebrew Lexicon #6601. Why is YHWH decieving anybody if it's impossible for the true God to lie? ( Heb 6:18)
There's enough here to tell you YHWH was never the True God. Open ur mind to see what's been there all along.
@RODikUlus ""Ezekiel 14:9- "And if the prophet be DECIEVED, I Jehovah have DECIEVED that prophet,..." ""
God does it all. Either he holds back evil or he allows it to manifest itself. You have no idea just how evil you are. If God stopped holding back ur evil, youd see just how hideous u are.
So if God allows the false prophet to be deceived after holding back his deception it is the same as deceiving the prophet.
@j919or - How blind and/or deluded you truly are. I can be honest with myself but you have a problem doing so. maybe you can google how many scriptures show that YHWH sent forth a "lying spirit". I can see that you don't know the bible too well. Most likely you go to church where they concentrate on a few nice scriptures...& when a scripture comes up that sounds fishy, you yell "context"! LOL
You'll sound so retarded when I show that God instigated & backs lies. The obvious escapes you.
@j919or - Sorry, but the bible says that YHWH sends forth lying spirits to do what they were purposed to do...which is LIE. This pleased YHWH, as He's the one behind it.
@RODikUlus Yes just like he sent a lying spirit to you that you also would believe the lie and choose hell. He gives people what they want. Satan and demons desire to deceive people and people dont want God and after some time of God pleading with people, he gives them what they want..darkness. Yes God who was holding back deception and by releasing his restraining hand, God in effect sends them a lying spirit.
@j919or - You're the sick one who adds in "in effect". Nowhere in your buy bull does it say that YHWH "in effect" let evil happen by removing himself. Evil happens in his presence. You're the fool who keeps BUYING the BULL. It's called the BUYBULL for a reason!! I will crush you further. What does CREATE mean? No one admits to creating something they take no part in. No matter which way you spin it, you're crushed.
@j919or - You stated here that YHWH actively sent a lying spirit to me. But if God has nothing to do with lies, then why would He even do such a thing? YHWH does Satans job better than Satan himself!! YHWH wants Satans job!
Are you familiar with the scriptures where YHWH calls a meeting in the heavens for the sole purpose of finding which spirit creature will lie to a puny human? If God isn't about lying, then why is He calling meetings in heaven to start a lie? Hmmm. Bring the thinking cap.
@RODikUlus God hold back lying spirits from people. You continued to reject Gods presence and protection and since you wanted the darkness/lies God withdraws his protection from u and now lying spirits are all over u.
@j919or - I'm not evil because I don't accept your Zeus. Evil? Seems like your God is evil personified, as mentioned by his biblical actions in this video. Anyone like you, who can justify evil actions is themselves evil. I'm going to be real, and not justify them. If the labels of good & evil were switched while you weren't looking, you wouldn't be able to distinguish between them.
Explain the RANSOM. Explain the SACRIFICE. If there were neither, accept your faith is a lie. That is all.
@j919or - What is your definition of ransom, and of sacrifice? Then explain how Jesus is such. Stating scriptures all day isn't you expalining how the biblical Jesus scenerio qualifies as a ransom sacrifice.
How did Jesus sacrifice his life, if he's still living? Do you know what sacrifice means?
@RODikUlus People and groups in the OT were OFTEN getting special 'place' names and temporary names, to be used for a specific purpose. Solomon, for example, got TWO names at his birth (II Sam 12.25)--Solomon and Jedidiah. No reference is ever made to Jedidiah after that, but it doesn't seem to be an issue.
@j919or - You still haven't proven that Jesus was ever called Emmanuel. For the scripture to be a true prophecy, it sure falls short when you can't prove it. Jesus never materialized during OT writtings. So what was the specific purpose for naming Jesus a name he was never called. I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel.
@RODikUlus ""I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel. ""
You reveals what a desperate dude your are. This argument is meaningless for if one person called Him Emmanuel or his parents named him that in addition to Jesus, but no one else called him that , you have nothing but an argument from silence.
@j919or - I see you as being desperate. You mention animals getting sacrificed, and unsacrificed people benefiting from the meat of that animal. What did that have to do with anything. There is no connection of that example with one who is supposed to sacrifice, while knowing his sacrifice returns to him somehow. Here's the thing...the bible would have mentioned if he was NAMED Emmanuel. If the bible doesn't, then I have a powerful arguement.
@RODikUlus ""I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel. ""
Further if it was ever stated that he was officlally named Emmanuel, one could call that a self-fulfulling prophecy. So it is a moot point. It seems that author mentioned it bc of the meaning of the word "God with us"
@j919or - Instead of trying to put the burden of proof on me, it's on you. Which author? The author of the book of Isaiah, or the author of the book of Matthew? Still, he wasn't NAMED Emmanuel. You can run circles around this point all day, if that makes you feel better. At the end of the day, Jesus wasn't NAMED Emmanuel.
@j919or - Stop hiding behind the silly "context" argument I knew you would pull, and give me the defintion. OK student...I'll make it blarringly simple for you. Give me the definition where the one who "sacrifices" a particular thing, knows in advance, that they get their "sacrifice" right back. How's that for context? :>)
In the real world, that's not called a sacrifice...it's called an opportunity.
@RODikUlus """context" argument I knew you would pull,""
Yep and I knew that ud whine and moan that I dispelled ur distortions of meaning with the clarfication that comes thru context.
The Jews sacrificed animals and then got the animals back in that they ate them. Jesus sacrificed His glory and perfection in absorbing the evil of the world in Himself. People dishonor God all the time and so He sacrifices his glory for us, esp. on the cross.
@j919or - i find it very telling that you can't expalin how this biblical Jesus sacrificed his life. You are reaching very far when mentioning the eating of sacrificed animals. In that instance, it is the animal that loses it's life...and it never got it's life back...so I ask you AGAIN. How did Jesus sacrifice his life, and KNOWINGLY recieve it right back? What "context" of sacrifice actually allows for that happening?
Every institution where u reject the rules and rebel, kicks u out. But God creates a world and u and then u rebel and he gives u chance after chance and even suffers the punishment that u deserve, and u still rebel. Yea u get kicked out and out of Gods presence is hell. God tries to warn ppl that it will feel like fire but instead ppl whine and moan that its not fair while they continue their rebellion.
@j919or - God didn't suffer for anyone. God isn't supposed to be able to die, so then if Jesus/God died, then he's not god. Simple. Also, Jesus ( as the bible portrays) never existed. In order for a Jesus Christ ( Christ means annointed and is not a name; fitting for the name of a mythical person) to have happened, he needed to qualify as a RANSOM SACRIFICE. If he is neither, then guess what? the very pillars of Christianity itself crumble...and they do. Care to explain how he's either?
Jesus qualified as a ransom sacrifice according to the terms of the prophecy of Isaiah 53 not according to your contrived standards. But feel free to bring ur malarky and be readily crushed.
Jesus means God our Savior and Christ means the annointed one. What is your point?
God didnt die and neither do we for we were created in Gods image. Our bodies die. Jesus' body died but he went immediately to be with the Father after He illustrated .....
@j919or - What was his name? Yeshua? It's the same name as Joshua. Alot of Hebrews & Jews had that name...it was popular. Christ however isn't a name. I asked for an explaination of how Jesus is a RANSOM SACRIFICE. You only said Isa 53. Listen, scriptures come a dime a dozen, & completely falls short of doing the job of expalining how Jesus is supposed to be a RANSOM SACRIFICE. That explaination falls squarely on your shoulders. So, please expalin, or be crushed.
@j919or - Hmmm, Isaiah & those "prophecies". Isa 7:14 (Mt 1:23) says the Messiah would be named Emmanuel ( With Us Is God). This prophecy clearly failed, as Emmanuel isn't the same name as Yeshua ( Jehovah-Savior). Did the "prophecy" you cling to in Isaiah 53 do any better? Nope.
What was it that the Father recieved as payment so that He could be appeased with the relationship He could have with His own creation?
@RODikUlus ""Emmanuel isn't the same name as Yeshua""
Prove that Jesus was never called Emmanuel. People were called many names then. Isa 9.6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
God absorbed our evil. The rest is him communicating that to us in our simplistic understanding and still you cant get it.
@j919or - Where was Jesus NAMED (not "called") Emmanuel? He may have been CALLED the Carpenters Son, but he wasn't NAMED that!!
Now, if he was, or will be called other things, those are more like titles...NOT NAMES. What does Isa 7:14, and Mt 1:23 say? It says NAME. People went by one NAME then.
Naming, & calling are 2 different things, and I'm seeing this simple thing goes over your head.
@j919or - "God absorbed our evil." Really? When did he do that? God even states in your own bible that it is He who CREATES EVIL! In Isaiah 45:7, God Himself is saying He creates evil. It only makes sense that if something issues forth from someone, they can't absorb it. For God creates evil out of thin air!
@RODikUlus ""In Isaiah 45:7, God Himself is saying He creates evil. ""
First, Im guessing that ROD is a college boy that has such little knowledge and boasts as if he were anything more than a lemming drone of the world system.
Second, the word translated evil there is better translated natural disaster. (NIV)
@j919or - It's a fallacy to try & offend a person, when at all esle you can't offend the point being made. Typical for low-lifes. Sorry to break it to you, but the origin hebrew word written in that scripture is "ra". The primary meaning of "ra" is EVIL. See Strong's Hebrew Lexicon #7451 for a full discussion on the matter. Also in that scripture, the only other thing YHWH creates is DARKNESS. He admits to creating DARKNESS & EVIL. Hint- A college boy didn't write the Hebrew Lexicon. Just saying
@j919or "And there are two types of evil". What you fail to see, is that YWHW admits to creating evil. No matter what type. It completely escapes you that he here admits to CREATING EVIL, & DARKNESS. Does he also create a "good" darkness? You tell me:>)
It's fishy that YHWH only forms light, & peace. Look at the difference of "form", & "create". Creating happens out of thin air. Forming is merely shaping something that already exist. YHWH doesn't credit himself with creating light nor peace.
@j919or - It's pretty obvious that the Evil being referred to in this scripture is pure evil. Do the words light, darkness, & peace mean differnt things too? It's clear that the scripture is showing contrast of peace & evil, darkness & light. Now look at which one YOUR God admits to creating.
Why doesn't He admit to creating light & peace ( the good things) in this scripture. Hmmm
I find it funny to see you run like this. I'll give you another scripture to contend with.
@RODikUlus ""pretty obvious that the Evil being referred ""
Its pretty obvious that ur rage and hostility towards God has distorted the ability that God gave u to think ratoinally. The opposite of moral evil is good and the opposite of natural disaster is peace. Those are the only two meaning of the word "ra"
@j919or - First of all, a natural disaster is not a miracle by definition. I can understand if you & I were ancient people arguing about what seems like natural disasters. Ancients didn't know why those things happened, & I'd even say that a God must be behind it. But these days, we know so much more. You most likely think that rainbows are god's promise to man that a worldwide deluge will never happen again. Tsk tsk. tell me..why is there no rainbow after a heavy rain at night?
@j919or YHWH admits to CREATING DARKNESS...NOT light! This part of the scripture is obvious that God creates the worse out of the two. The Hebrew Lexicon already shows that the context for "ra" in this scripture is EVIL. You can spin yourself, but not me. Strong's Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament breaks it down. Isa 45:7's "ra" means EVIL. Other scriptures are credited with calalmity, woe, afflictions, etc. But for this scholarly masterpiece, It says Isa 45:7 says EVIL. ...CONT
@j919or Listen to this video, while not lying to yourself. It's clear as day that YHWH is a creator of evil. Pure evil. Who does the bible credit for the ancient Israelite wars? It was YHWH. YHWH pretty much started the wars according to the bible. He is the instigator. In the bible, God instigates wars that bring on genocide, rape, abortion, slavery, etc. God also instigates lies to be told to mere human beings. WTF!! WHY would a God have to lie to puny humans powerless against him?
@RODikUlus ""God instigates wars that bring on genocide, rape, abortion, slavery, etc. ""
Nah. Show where God condones rape and slavery and abortion, and ill show how irrational you have become. God does judge and eliminate evil people after much patience and warning. HIs great patience is the only reason that he still lets u live.
@j919or - Are you familiar where God commands his people to kill another nation in a graphic way? He stated "rip open the pregnant womans belly". Hmm. Wouldn't this amount to killing the live fetus inside? Sure does. There goes your abortion buddy. And guess what, all I need is ONE scripture to drive home the point. You can't even give me ONE scripture concerning a "prophesy" of Jesus being NAMED Emmanuel. Instead, you try sad attempts of trying to put the burden of proof on me. Laughable.
What is the context of that statement? Was it a prediction of what the other nations were going to do? Was it a command or just a statment of what was going to happen?
@j919or - Elsewhere in the bible, Psalms 137:9 mentions "Happy are you, who dash to pieces against the rocks the children". Really? Would you be happy to do such a sick thing to a kid who is of no threat to you? I was referring to Hosea 13:16 where it shows God is encouraging this to happen literally when Samaria is subdued. YHWH encouraged the same act in 2 Kings, and in Amos. I guess YHWH inspired all of these attitudes and actions.
@j919or - How am I being dishonest about YHWH's inspired Word encouraging ripping open pregnant woman on more than 1 occasion? Why is a joyous verse referencing how happy you'll be when you rip open a pregnant womans belly, or dash children against rocks so hard, there body dismantles? Sick, sick you accept this! It is you who are evil, and you who is not morally correct enough to distinguish positive from negative. You will stay blind, & when Israelites utterly destroy you, you will deserve it.
@j919or "Nah. Show where God condones rape and slavery and abortion,.."
LOL. How come you didn't mention genocide in this sentence? Is that because you are already aware that God instigated genocide, so you didn't want to see it? I already gave the instance where abortion was commanded by God. Slavery, and rape will be later. Stay tuned.
Please explain how the Jesus biblical scenerio amounts to a SACRIFICE in your own words. We never got to the RANSOM portion yet. Hurry up slowpoke!!
It wasnt genocide, it was all the enemies of Israel destroyed in some cases. Those that had faith in God like Rahab were spared and integrated into society. God knows what is best in the long run. We see the outside and the temporary God see within peoples minds and knows their attitude and knows the end from the beginning.
@j919or - You said "But feel free to bring ur malarky and be readily crushed."
Just a little news. So far, anyone who reads our debate can easily see my logic crushed your belief. I wanted to go into so much more, but your unwilling to be honest with yourself, and this is how progress never happens. Stop lying to yourself, so that you can stop lying to others.
YHWH has to have evil in Him...for did He require Satans help in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"?
@RODikUlus ""YHWH has to have evil in Him...for did He require Satans help in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"?""
Now I will publically crush you for all to see, you loathsome spawn of satan! Evil is the absence of good, it is not a thing. The absence of God is where evil comes from. God releases his control just a bit and it creates evil. Gods goal is that people would willingly learn to desire and even crave and cling to his control.
@j919or - Sorry to crush you publically. I directly asked you if YHWH used Satan somehow in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". You do believe this was a literal tree ( 1 tree) that possessed good & evil. If YHWH created that tree from His own hand, why did it not possess ALL goodness? Why was there even a bit of evil in it? i already explained ( & you agreed) that light and dark exist in the same space. Now you're flip flopping because I crushed you!! It gets better.
@strengthinweakness1 - I'm not making up anything. Ask yourself what the tree of life was able to do to the partaker. By YHWH's own admittion, eating of that tree gave the partaker everlasting life. Was it a literal tree according to your Chrsitian belief? Yep. You believe that this was a literal magical tree. Same goes for the tree of the knowledge of good & evil. What was that tree able to do to the partaker? It opened "eyes"/mind to know what YHWH knew. YHWH admits this too.
@RODikUlus "tree gave the partaker everlasting life"
If you want the life of God it is yours for the taking. Most people dont want the life of God. Bc they dont want to change. Why do u think that Adam didnt first of that tree?They want to stay as they are for they only trust their own senses and they wont trust their creator. This is insanity to the infinite degree. And yall are infiected with it to this day.
@j919or - Nope. YHWH said man was created in his image. Then he dangled the 2 things that hinge on our every desire. Life eternal, & bottomless knowledge...which happens to be the things that define God. It's a myth, an aesops fable through & through. It's insanity not to see this.
Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?
It truly is insanity when you consider YHWH is supposed to know what will happen before it does. He wanted this.
@RODikUlus "Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?"
Temptation simply means to reveal what is there. A test just reveals how much u know and a test/temptation just reveals how lacking u r and how much u need more training. The honest receive that training and it teaches us to love God which alone results in eternal bliss and not eternal misery.
@j919or - I like how you mention YHWH is omnisicent ( a know it all), and then you mention YHWH makes a test. A test would make no sense to a being with omnisicence. For if YHWH knew A & E would fail this "test", what does the scripture mean when it says YHWH will not let you take on more temptation than you can bear? If YHWH KNEW they'd succumb, then that scripture isn't true. Requriement for a test just reveals that YHWH isn't omnisicent. Not even close...for YHWH seems to learn so much later.
@j919or -You've dodged- "Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?"
If a Maker of a product according to a purpose, tested it, & it fell short....who in thier right mind actually blames the product? Any sane person realizes that the Maker has a short coming. A perfect Maker couldn't fuck up. Neither can his creation. Name to me a product that fell short, & the product got blamed. The buy bull attempts to get you to accept this flawed thinking.
Nah He only made a mistake according to ur twisted judgment. Your mistake is that u wont admit that u are evil, missing the created purpose to reflect the goodness of God and enjoy God forever. If you did youd be saved. But u refuse and hence God will use you as a vessel to manifest his wrath, that is your new purpose, since u rejected the created purpose.
@j919or - I don't have twisted judgement. I'll prove it again, in case the point didn't sink in the 1st time. I'll even put the ball in your court, so here's your chance to shine. Name to me ANY product that fell short of it's intended purpose, & the product got ALL the blame...not the maker. Please, be truthful in your answer.
Now, if YHWH is all knowing, He was fine with punishing a considerable portion of what He's the 1st case for. Isn't that winning!?!?!? No, it's sad.
Sure dude. The doctor gave the patient some medicine and the patient refused to take it and died. The family had a son and the son refused education and the families care and love and he overdosed and died. Thats you.
@j919or - I like how you mentioned the son refused education. YHWH was holding back knowledge? A & E were nothing more than adult bodies, with child like brains. For they have had no life experiences. What is so harmful about making an educated decision? Knowing evil, and good meant they would have known both sides of the coin. It's the only way that we today can make an informed choice. If you made the rules, would you punish with death an inexperienced kid for eating a tempting desert?
@j919or - Do you really think a God created 2 humans, who could eat fruit from trees, & needed to eat from a special magical tree to sustain their relationship with their maker? Really? What would have happened if A & E ate only the normal fruit, & none of the magic trees? They would have died eventually...then where would their relationship be with YHWH if they physically died?
You've been lying to yourself for some time now. When will you start being honest with yourself?
@j919or - Now, this example you gave falls short. The doctor isn't the Maker of the medicine. You can try again. The maker should know what side effects will happen...but after the fact, YHWH later tells A & E that they will live a horrible life, and that ALL of their offspring will suffer. Now, if that was made clear to A & E from the beginning, do you think the story would be the same?
Again. U R lying to yourself here. Jesus isn't a ransom sacrifice by any stretch of imagination/delusion.
@j919or - This is a dishonest answer. I'm sure you heard this at church. That church is a dangerous place, because it takes away your thinking abilities. I stated specifically "Name to me ANY product that fell short of it's intended purpose, & the product got the blame...not the maker." I asked you to be truthful. This should cause you to think past the churches default answer.
How does a patient that didn't use the product apply? Obviously, by my statement, the product had to be used.
@j919or - "and the son refused education" Education has the end result of knowing. In the Genesis account, then why is YHWH creating knowledge that He actually wants to hold back? Why is YHWH making ( what you believe to be poison) that "poison" to look delicious. Why didn't He make it repulsive? YHWH is sort of like the wicked witch in snow white. Why didn't the witch make the apple look like poison? Because she had an agenda...much like YHWH. CONTINUED-----
@TheCrimsonRex - How much of the debate have you read? You've answered that God made a tree of knowledge for the purpose of getting mankind to see truths about themselves.
In the Genesis account, it seems as God created that tree to deny it to mankind.
Saying that God is made of truth & goodness is debatable.
If God is actually God along with all of the OMNI's, then there is no way I can persecute Him.
Thanks for trying to help j919or realize the Christian way.
Where does it say that YHWH lives outside of space and time? You're the one making up stuff as you go. Where does it say that YHWH exist in an enviroment that other spirit creatures can't?
If God admits to having the knowledge of good & evil, along with the other spirits He talks to in Genesis, how did A&E having it, amount to a rejection of YHWH?
The tree possessed nothing. Youre still making stuff up. The tree was what God said not to eat. Disobedience to the will of God brought evil. And it brought the experiencial knowledge of the difference between good and evil.
@j919or - Something is seriously wrong with you. According to thte story, YHWH admits in Gen 3:22 that man ( after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil) has become like "one of us ( Elohim) in knowing good and bad. The instant A & E ate from it, there eyes were open. There perception changed into a perception more like the Elohim. How can you say this wasn't a literal magical tree which possessed within it the power to change the perception of the partaker?
The knowledge of evil gave man a knowledge that He couldnt handle and that would ruin him. God knew what evil was by omnisicence and Adam knew by experience and it ruined him by making him think in a dangerous new way.
@j919or - You really don't even know the stories you believe so much. Did you not notice that the tree of life made it possible to live forever? Again, Gen 3:22 shows that YHWH wanted angelic help in preventing A & E from eating that tree. You see, this tree is something like the mythical fountain of youth. It's a story, and it has a God that made it possible for His creation to be just like Him ( in knowledge and eternal life), but prevents them. All myths are somewhat like this.
@RODikUlus "tree of life made it possible to live forever? "
But once Adam sinned, he was corrupted and to live forever in that state wouldve been hell. So God restricted the tree of life until after He could redeem man from His corruption. Later at the end we find in Revelation 22 that God gives men the tree of life to symbolize that man now has awesome quality of life and will enjoy that forever.
I already experience to some degree the new life of God every day.
@j919or - If you read Gen 3:22-24 very well, you can make out that A & E were created set up to die. Eating of either of the magical trees started it's irreversible effect. Once the tree of life was eaten, it caused immortality. The bible tells you in no uncertain terms they were prevented from partaking from the Tree of Life so they WOULDN'T live forever!
Sijnce you don't feel these were literal magic trees, then that means that you also believe A&E, YHWH, & the serpant were figuraltive too.
@RODikUlus ""prevented from partaking from the Tree of Life ""
Only after then became corrupt were they banned for to live forever in a corrupt state is hell. I think u should just get what u want and that is self will and self glory in hell. And I imagine that u will get ur wish and continue raging against God forever from hell...so sad.
@j919or - "I think u should just get what u want..."
I think you should demonstrate how Jesus is a sacrifice. I noticed you can't do it, for you would have in these 6+ weeks we've debated. All of your answers have been the regugitated Chrisitian answers. Not once have you shown that YOU are thinking. Your letting the doctrine creators do your thinking for you. For being so lazy, you end up with no reward. They laugh at you while accepting your tithe...so sad.
Nah. Some are shared by my brothers but most all come from the wisdom of God. Jesus sacrificed his very soul in that "He that knew no sin, became sin for us" and "He made his soul an offering for sin". God absorbed our evil in himself and overcame it, but it caused God eternal suffering even though from the human viewpoint it only took an instant.
@j919or - What do you mean Jesus "knew no sin". Certainly he did. I already stated that Jesus had the knowledge of good and evil. So, how is it that YHWH allowed Jesus to possess such knowledge, while remaining sinless, but YHWH didn't let Adam & Eve possess the same exact knowledge without sinning.
Also, Jesus would have had sinned...according to his own gauge of sin.
@j919or - This Tree of Life. Many Christians believe A & E were created perfect, and would never have died...as if A & E were created to live forever. look at what partaking of it did. It enabled the partaker to live forever. Just one bite. Why would that tree be there if God actually created the first perfect human pair able to live forever? The tree would only be there to tease them, as YHWH already knew He would later ban them from it.
@RODikUlus You err because you dont understand the terms life and death out side of bodily function. Adam died when he sinned in that he was separated from God and Adam would have been connected to God forever if he wouldve eaten from the tree of life. But apparently he didnt think he needed that spiritual life/connection to God. But he did think that he needed to experience evil for himself.
@j919or - "Adam died when he sinned in that he was seperate from God"
Again, you can't tell how mythical this all sounds? You are indeed trapped in a mental prison...the worst kind...you can't see the box you're forced to stay inside of. To believe YHWH designed an arrangement for his creation to only have an amazing relationship with Him, based on 2 magical trees?!? Where does the text say that the knowledge of good & evil wasn't able to be handled by A & E? Why did Jesus have it as a human?
@j919or - Just for clarification, YHWH ( original Hebrew has Elohim, & Elohim doesn't mean "God") puts 2 literal magical trees in the garden to ban 1 of them to mankind, while putting the desire for both in mankind. If man was made YHWH image, wouldn't man want eternal life, and complete knowledge? Sure would. Why did YHWH make it such a priority to ban the tree of life? Answering the tree wasn't literal or magical shows that YHWH, serpant, A & E weren't literal either.
@j919or - After reading Gen 3:22, there should be no way that you can continue saying that these 2 trees created from YHWH's own hands, were literal magical trees that had specific powers within them. According to your belief, you HAVE to believe the tree of life can make a person live forever. You HAVE to believe that the tree of knowledge changed the perception, enabling one to know both sides of the coin...hence the good & the evil.
Nah they werent magical trees but props to teach a lesson to A&E and all that read later. One tree symbolized disobedience and the other symbolized partaking of the life of God. So the question is: Do you want God or do u want to rebel against God?
@j919or - No, both of those trees represented the core desires of man. The stuff that eludes him. Eternal life, and endless knowledge. Saying the knowledge of good & evil just means all encompassing knowledge...because to the ancients, if one knew all there is to lknow about evil, & all there is to know about good, then that one knew everything, hence, why the mythical YHWH and his angelic host needed to know this. Are you familiar with the Hebrew word Elohim. It doesn't mean "God".
@j919or - If YHWH is perfect, then He has no need to test. For anything created by a perfect creators hand is above test, & hence perfect...according to it's purpose. So, since the purpose of man existed before man actually did ( for clarification, I don't believe this), what was the purpose of man? Check out what the bible says about that. A perfect creator wouldn't allow room for any tolerance for a creation to go against it's inteneded purpose.
@j919or - God made an institution where He made it law to (1) not steal, & (2) not kill. In order to get a land to call your own, the God who made those laws told you to KILL the Caanites, so you can STEAL their land? If you could live in that institution of la la land, where "firm" laws are placed for the purpose of being disobeyed--by it's creators command, & turned back on when He feels like it, then hypocracy loves you. Intelligence isn't on the side of this institution.
@RODikUlus ""God who made those laws told you to KILL the Caanites, so you can STEAL their land?""
In personal matters dont kill is the command but governments kill and steal the guns of the defeated nations. The command was never meant for governments but for individuals.
@j919or - "The command was never meant for governments but for individuals." In case you haven't noticed, a nation is made up of basic units of families. Individuals make up families. If this biblical passage is true, then individuals from YHWH were commanded to KILL & STEAL from individuals from another land.
Which one of those Caanites would have not taken it personally?
So, you see, you're answer makes no sense, just like your belief system.
@EdwardVonFishington i am so sorry for threatening you or anyone,its not my GOD'S will that i should threaten you or anyone.My GOD love you just as he love me,again i am so sorry for representing HIM in the wrong way .
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. --Albert Einstein
Jesus is the new covenant but the jews refuse to accept him,GOD IS GOD SO PLEASE DONT COMPARE YOURSELF TO,HIM LEARN TO RESPECT HIM AND YOU MAY LIVE..THE DAYS WHEN JEWS WERE THE CHOSEN ONES ENDED THE DAY JESUS WAS BORN ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life JOHN 3:15'',
@thrangki So because God says "I promise I won't do it anymore, love you all, bye" he is absolved of responsibility? No. Great power begets great responsibility, and absolute power begets absolute responsibility. God in his infinite wisdom knows this is true. So, God is either malevolent, or not infinite in his wisdom. God is a small petulant child with a fist that shatters the earth on a chaotic whim and shows no penance, makes no reparations. I reject such a god, and gain enlightenment.
@Shalekitty lets say you work or run a business would you not be expected to follow or lay down some rules and regulations in order that it runs well,and what if you failed or someone in your organisation did not follow said rules wouldn't action be taken against you or that individual for the sake of the business so that others who follow these rules and depend on it for their livelihood do not perish.GOD is a great leader to me and i guess it'll take some time for a child to understand this.
@thrangki Business owners do not condemn their employees to eternal pain and suffering for failing to refill copy toner, nor slay outright the children of employees who do not follow their employee handbook to the letter. they do not command the wholesale slaughter of rival companies. The premise of "does god have the authority to mete out punishment?" is not the issue. the issue is: If this punishment is from God, is it just, and does God deserve the allegiance of his followers? I say no.
@Shalekitty God does not punish but only forgives.Yes in order for him to be just, he can only allow the people who follow his ways to live with him in heaven. God gave you and me free will,we can choose how to live and treat each other here on earth,( i am very sure Nazis NOT GOD who killed people). Humans loves to control each other.Just look at nations without God i bet you know their Human Rights track record and compare that to the U.S whose constitution was written based on the Bible
@thrangki Again, not addressing the issue: Is God, if he exists, which I don't think he does, accountable for atrocities that he personally committed in the old testament? I say Yes. If God did the things that the Old Testament credits him with, then he is not considerate or fair. He is a bully and a despot. If he were a head of government, rather than a deity, he would be overthrown in a week.
I know of no Atheist nations. None. at all. The majority of the west is either christian, catholic, etc. The middle east, and a large chunk of Africa is Muslim, Asia is predominantly Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, Hindi, or a myriad of others. America was founded with the idea of freedom of religion. that is freedom from religion too. that is that you can worship, or not, whatever god, gods, or no god as you deem appropriate. hence, the first amendment.
@thrangki The U.S. constitution is based on the Bible? Have you been smoking crack? They have the first amendment specifically to separate the constitution and all religion. How on earth do you get these crazy things in your head? As for your other stuff, yes humans harm other humans but if the Old Testament is to be believes God both harmed humans directly and ordered humans to harm other humans. This is not the behaviour of an all loving being.
@Pilaf1984 ...it's not just the Jewish faith but all over the world. It's nothing to be concerned about. God has already PREDESTINED who will be saved and who will not. The Bible tells us clearly that as the end time draws near, more and more of the world will turn their backs on God. God is not interested in QUANTITY...just QUALITY. Look at what He accomplished with just 12 dedicated Apostles.
What movie is this? plz reply comment.
DeezNutz508 1 month ago
God IS good...very good. Man is evil. Mans interpretation of good is twisted as he is twisted.
1. God waited 400 years with the Amelikites and Egyptians and generation after generation of people were evil just like their fathers. Should God have judged them all after 40 years? Should God hve waited another 400 years ?
2. Yall judge God and know nothing and are evil, yall want and deserve hell and hell is what u will get.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - !st, just reply to me, so I know you responded. 2nd, don't think threats work on persons who aren't threatened of what it is that keeps you in line. Isn't it amazing that you actually think YHWH wants loyalty to Him, and even wants that so much, He lined up an extreme punishment for those who don't choose His way. Who created Hell, and when was it created? And you're sitting here thinking God is good? Laughable...& you've answered nothing, but think you have the truth. Wake up!!
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus why are you persecuting God?
TheCrimsonRex 2 months ago
@j919or , Don't tell people to go to Hell, it's not a fate to be wished on anyone.
You pray for these people you don't condemn them.
Please don't turn yourself to anger just because some people don't understand. You have to show wisdom.
TheCrimsonRex 2 months ago
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j919or 2 months ago
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@TheCrimsonRex "You have to show wisdom""
Ya bro/sis. Point taken. My our Lord bless u and keep u and I praise God for ur life and His wisdom in u. Thank you
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or- Opps- I should have said I learned 2 things. LOL. But you get the point... :>)
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - CONTINUED----- I've learned one thing in life. If a product boldly states UNBREAKABLE, then it can be broken. Also, when someone is trying to withold knowledge from you, they are trying to take advantage of you. It should be blarringly clear that the Elohim ( do you know who the Elohim are?) are jealous of mankinds abilities, so they didn't want man to be able to live without being dependant on them. If man could live forever, and know what the Elohim did, the Elohim's gig is up!!!
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or- The day of the LORD will be darkness. Amos 5:20 & Zeph 1:14-15.
Darkness is His secret place- Ps 18:11
Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where YHWH was-Ex 20:21
Hmmm. I remember you stating that darkness happens when YHWH removes Himself. Do you still stand by that statement, when you're own bible disagrees with you?
The only way to get light out of YHWH is to set Him on fire!
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "darkness happens when YHWH removes Himself."
Darkness was a metaphor for lies. The judgment of God is the removal of good and that includes the benefits of light.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - "Darkness was a metaphor for lies."
Like I said, in your own "inspired" bible, you have YHWH being the start of a lie. Why would YHWh call a meeting in the heavens to ask a lying spirit to do a favor for YHWH, and lie to a puny human being on earth, so that the human dies. Also, YHWH was very pleased that someone was going to lie for Him. Thinking caps on.
YHWH is very much involved in darkness, no matter what the metaphor.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "YHWh call a meeting in the heavens ""
Rather God gave Micaiah a vision to explain to Him how the prophets that Ahab chose were lying prophets that were permitted to lie by God.
The context was that Ahab rejected the word of the Lord for a more favorable word. God permitted a spirit to give those prophets lies to tell Ahab, because Ahab rejected the word of the Lord. You also rejected the word of the Lord and now are also plunged into confusion and grave danger.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or When the bible speaks of YHWH sending an evil spirit, or a lying spirit, the context was meant for the reader to take that literally. If YHWH is truly the 1st cause, KNOWING in advance that evil would spread, it's like a parent putting a kid in the room with a knife on the floor. If the parent KNEW the kid would injure/kill himself, wouldn't the parent be responsible? Sure would. I reject the buy bull because logic rejects the buy bull. Busy, but will deal with that scripture later.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or I see that when the bible says YHWH called a meeting in the heavens, you take it to mean that YHWH is giving a vision. I guess, in the beginning of Job, the meeting that YHWH had in heavens when Satan came from roving about on the earth was a vision too.
If so, then why would YHWH still be behind a vision that shows Him getting the wheels going on starting a lie to be told to a mere human? Why would YHWH show Himself happy with this? Isn't YHWH acting petty like Zues here? Yes.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or- Here's how you know you're crushed:
Be honest. How can you SACRIFICE your life, while KNOWING you get your life back even faster than it takes for me to inhale once?
Why do dodgers of important questions think they're winning? You are truly the one stuck in deception, & I see you're set to stay there. Here's a thing about truth, and lies. Only lies run from truth. Truth never runs from lies. You've been dodging ( running away from) some very telling imformation. CONT-
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""faster than it takes for me to inhale once?""
I told you that God is outside of time and eternal. God created time and space and therefore must be outside of time and space but still able to relate within time and space.
strengthinweakness1 2 months ago
@strengthinweakness1 - Is heaven outside of space and time? Where do the host of other spirit creatures dwell? Do you not realize that if there is no time, there is no before, after, or present. There is no creature that can lay claim to creating other creatures who exist in this timeless realm. You see, every entity living outside of time can see the end and the beginning at the same time. Also, if spirits exist there, none of them were created. There is no beginning. They ALL just existed.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "Is heaven outside of space and time? "
Its a different dimension called the heavenly realm. I cant understand it all except that when the Holy Spirit entered me this incredible joy filled me did too. I wish ud ask God to take ur life forever and change u from evil to good.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - If you're speaking form experience, why can't you understand that if all spirit creatures can exist outside of time & space, that ALL of them have the ability to know what we call past, present, & future, as they live in an enviroment where everything happens simultaneously. What you're not seeing, is that a "God" doesn't need to exist in an enviroment like this. With no beginning, nothing needed a creator. Only things bound by time are familiar with a concept called creation.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
j919or- If you can't show any actual sacrifice on Jesus part, and can't even fathom how a person that is supposed to be counted as DEAD has the ability to consciously resurrect their own selves...then consider yourself crushed.
We never made it to the RANSOM portion, and how that's a bold faced lie from a sick YHWH who doesn't know what freely forgivng really means...but expects his followers to do it. LOL
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""counted as DEAD has the ability to consciously resurrect their own selves""
Jesus was with the Father instantly upon death. God is outisde of time and so u cant understand the suffering of God in absorbing evil from a time perspective.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - You confused yourself with this explaination. How was Jesus dead for 3 days if he never was dead? Furthermore, explain how evil is the absence of YHWH, yet YHWH CREATES a tree that housed both good & evil...at the same time within the same object?!?!
Outside of time is a concept that your church tells you. They're full of them. If you ever though about it, there is no before or after in an enviroment outside of time. What we call past, present, & future would happen simultaneously.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""housed both good & evil""
Housed? Where did u get that idea?
strengthinweakness1 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""What we call past, present, & future would happen simultaneously""
Of course. God sees the end and the beginning at the same time
strengthinweakness1 2 months ago
@j919or- It seems I put too much on your plate. I was going to get into the abortion, rape, and even the lies endorsed by YHWH. All in the bible. Don't believe that Hosea is the only scripture concerning that vile act against undeserving helpless ones. Now, explain how Jesus was dead for 3 days outside of time, and knew how to be just dead enough to ressurect himself on the 3rd day? I can easily do the abortion, lying, & stuff after we deal with this, & how there was no RANSOM SACRIFICE!!!
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or- I think you should have answered how could Jesus be dead for 3 days, yet be concious enough to know that 3 days have past, so that he knows he has to ressurect himself. Explain.
Also, how can you call the biblical Jesus scenerio a "sacrifice", if all he's doing is knowingly taking advantage of an opportunity?
Could you sacrifice your life, if you KNEW that your getting your life right back? The dynamics change when knowledge is present- there is no sacrifice! U beLIEve a LIE!!
RODikUlus 3 months ago
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@RODikUlus ""how could Jesus be dead for 3 days, ""
Jesus didnt go to hell for 3 days. He was in heaven with the Father. "This day you shall be with me in paradise"
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or- AGAIN- Tell me how Jesus could SACRIFICE his life, KNOWING in advance, that he will get his life right back!!!
In no way is a scenerio like that a sacrifice of any sort. It is an opportunity!! It's like being given illegal insider information on the stock market, and using that info to gain over others without that knowledge. In that scenerio there is no risk. If you KNEW that giving up a dollar today would give you $3 million in 3 days, what did you sacrifice? please explain.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""that he will get his life right back!!!""
You judge on the basis of what u see. God sees the eternal and He is not limited to time. Hence His suffering can be an eternal suffering but which appears as only a blip in time. So we see the tip of the iceberg while God sees the eternal weight of absorbing the evil of the universe in Himself.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - "not limited to time"...I see you're going all over the place here. Do the 3 days have anything to do with time? How long would 3 days be outside of time? If Jesus never died for 3 days, then everything the Christian faith hinges on is imaginary.
This is not a complicated question. If Jesus actually sacrificed his LIFE, how was he conscious enough to know that 3 days have past, so that he resurrected himself? How does a truly dead person know how much time past by while they're dead?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or- CONT... Now, do you have another RESPECTED source for deciphering hebrew text accurately? If not, & if you don't claim to know any hebrew, hang it up!! Isa 45:7 context of "ra" is "evil". I can see you don't like when the truth stares you in the face. You're looking like the college boy...do your research. Why would YHWH admit to CREATING darkness& evil?
Now, if a scholarly Hebrew work shows what I said to be right, why can't you let it be simple. Your pride is a bitch.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""CREATING darkness& evil?""
Darkness is the absense of light and is not a thing. Neither is evil for evil is the absence of good. The hebrew word has 2 meanings, one of which is natural disaster. Look it up. God need only withdraw him sustaining hand and protective hand for all types of evil to occur.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - So then Light is the absence of darkness, but that is NOT true. Light & darkness exist together all the time. Do you have a dimmable light?
I guess God created "the tree of the knowledge of good and natural disaster" in your bible, huh? C'mon...be honest with yourself. I asked you to give me a respected reference if you wanted to continue this particular debate. I did, & my resource shows that "ra" means the root meaning of evil. You are complicating the issue by not accepting it.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus The NIV translates the word RA as natural disaster, the NIV is a respected reference.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - No, a hebrew interlinear or anything on the order of the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon is a respectable source. The bible the JW's use say "calamity". Other bibles say "woe". Yours happens to say "natural disaster", but none of those have the import of the word "evil". Do you say Satan is natural disaster, or do you say that Satan is calamity. NO! You say that Satan is evil. So does the Hebrew Lexicon. Stop being the evil one here, by continuing a lie.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Do you say Satan is natural disaster""
No. Because thecontext determines the usage. There are two possible meanings of RA and the context determines the usage. Youve been lied to by the book of contradictions ABOUT ISAIAH 45.7. The lexicon is not that book. Go splash some cold water on ur face, that might help.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - There are more than 2 possible meanings for "ra". The Strong's Hebrew Lexicon breaks down how many different forms of this word can apply in various circumstances. It even does so by particular scripture. Did you know that? It breaks down which scripture means what according to the HEBREW context. I KNOW the Hebrew Lexicon is not a misleading book, just like you say. That's why you should accept what it says on ISAIH 45:7. It breaks down the meaning as EVIL in that very verse.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Light & darkness exist together all the time.""
Remove the light and u have darkness. Add the light and darkness is removed. To the degree that u add light is the degree u remove darkness.
Moral evil is the opposite of good. Natural disaster is the opposite of peace. When there are two meanings to a word the context determines the usage.
Thats right you read some books on contradictions. You trusted them and they lied ot u.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - If you want to call Strong's Hebrew Lexicon a book on contradictions, you really need to be laughed at. I know what is positive, & I know what is negative. This video exposes the negativety of YHWH. Even affecting unborn babies. A perfect God doesn't need to go that route.
Light and darkness co-exist. Take a dimmable light. When the light isn't 100%, ( when is it truly 100&?) you have to accept that a percentage of darkness exist in the same room the light is in. Sunset & sunrise.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus To the degree that light shines is the degree that darkness is dispelled. Of course there are degrees. Even in black and white there are degree. Even in the blackest black and brightest bright there are degrees.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Good to see that you agree with me here. Yes, light and darkness exist even in the same space. If God is light, according to your belief, then how much light issues forth from YHWH when he had his prophets write down those encouraging words to his followers about graphically destroying an child, or even killing the mother along with the developing fetus in one blow? How bright?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or "When there are two meanings to a word the context determines the usage." Do you really think you are defeating the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon on a subject you know nothing about? You're on it's turf. Stop trying so hard at failing!!! YHWH creates darkness & evil. He must remove himself in order to let peace, & light to form. It is YHWH who hardens hearts ( yours), sends evil spirits, and lying spirits. YHWH is the source of deciet. YHWH=abortion. Don't you just love this video?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - I'm curious. Name exactly what you mean by natural disaster. Break it down, and state some of them. Do you mean tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, & tsunamis?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - The word PEACE isn't a word with vague meaning. However, saying "natural disaster" is actually a vague statement. This is a reason that "natural disaster" isn't an actual opposite. In fact, Hebrew's Strong Lexicon breaks down the word "ra", and it can mean heavy, affliction, pain, etc. There are many meanings that show more than 2 possibilties. So, why is it that Strong's Hebrew Lexicon broke down the meaning of "ra" in ISAIAH 45:7 to mean it root of EVIL? You tell me.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus how happy you'll be when you rip open a pregnant womans belly, or dash children against rocks so hard, there body dismantles? Sick, sick ""
Nah. You are the sick one. God spoke of the deeds of the coming hordes of unbelievers and their evil dasterdly gross acts of violence, which BTW is the reason God flooded the earth.
1. No where does God command this
2. You are evil and twist the blame for this evil to God
3. You are nothing but chemicals formed to be a tool of satan and all evil
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - actually wanted to deal with that in more depth later, as I really wanted to concentrate on the issue of what a sacrifice is, and how the Jesus biblical scenerio doesn't equate to one. It seems I made my point clear, as you'd rather defend the word "ra", or how abortion isn't backed by YHWH. Did I say it was a command from God? No, I said God encouraged it. Did you read the accounts elsewhere in the bible about abortion being encouraged by YHWH? Chemical jokes don't offend me:>)
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - WOW! It appears the question I posed is too much. Why did you use such an absence of humility when telling me I'll be crushed? It's actually you who has been crushed in this debate. All I used is logic to crush you. I used to lie to myself when I was a Christian, and you're doing it to yourself right now. How can you tell? Here's how:
Could you SACRIFICE your life, if you KNEW that you're getting your life right back? Is that scenerio a SACRIFICE or an OPPORTUNITY. Be honest please.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - Ezekiel 14:9- "And if the prophet be DECIEVED, I Jehovah have DECIEVED that prophet,..." WOW!! YHWH actively decieves prophets, and admits to it! The hebrew word translated "decieved" is "pathah". Newer bibles try and use the word "fooled", or "tricked". See Stong's Hebrew Lexicon #6601. Why is YHWH decieving anybody if it's impossible for the true God to lie? ( Heb 6:18)
There's enough here to tell you YHWH was never the True God. Open ur mind to see what's been there all along.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Ezekiel 14:9- "And if the prophet be DECIEVED, I Jehovah have DECIEVED that prophet,..." ""
God does it all. Either he holds back evil or he allows it to manifest itself. You have no idea just how evil you are. If God stopped holding back ur evil, youd see just how hideous u are.
So if God allows the false prophet to be deceived after holding back his deception it is the same as deceiving the prophet.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - How blind and/or deluded you truly are. I can be honest with myself but you have a problem doing so. maybe you can google how many scriptures show that YHWH sent forth a "lying spirit". I can see that you don't know the bible too well. Most likely you go to church where they concentrate on a few nice scriptures...& when a scripture comes up that sounds fishy, you yell "context"! LOL
You'll sound so retarded when I show that God instigated & backs lies. The obvious escapes you.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - Sorry, but the bible says that YHWH sends forth lying spirits to do what they were purposed to do...which is LIE. This pleased YHWH, as He's the one behind it.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus Yes just like he sent a lying spirit to you that you also would believe the lie and choose hell. He gives people what they want. Satan and demons desire to deceive people and people dont want God and after some time of God pleading with people, he gives them what they want..darkness. Yes God who was holding back deception and by releasing his restraining hand, God in effect sends them a lying spirit.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - You're the sick one who adds in "in effect". Nowhere in your buy bull does it say that YHWH "in effect" let evil happen by removing himself. Evil happens in his presence. You're the fool who keeps BUYING the BULL. It's called the BUYBULL for a reason!! I will crush you further. What does CREATE mean? No one admits to creating something they take no part in. No matter which way you spin it, you're crushed.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus """in effect" let evil happen by removing himself""
By allowing A&E to have choice to reject Him, he removed his control over them.
strengthinweakness1 2 months ago
@j919or - You stated here that YHWH actively sent a lying spirit to me. But if God has nothing to do with lies, then why would He even do such a thing? YHWH does Satans job better than Satan himself!! YHWH wants Satans job!
Are you familiar with the scriptures where YHWH calls a meeting in the heavens for the sole purpose of finding which spirit creature will lie to a puny human? If God isn't about lying, then why is He calling meetings in heaven to start a lie? Hmmm. Bring the thinking cap.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus God hold back lying spirits from people. You continued to reject Gods presence and protection and since you wanted the darkness/lies God withdraws his protection from u and now lying spirits are all over u.
j919or 2 months ago
...how ur evil and mine was absorbed by the infinite Holy God and the internal devastation that it caused, illustrated by the agony on Gethsemane
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - I'm not evil because I don't accept your Zeus. Evil? Seems like your God is evil personified, as mentioned by his biblical actions in this video. Anyone like you, who can justify evil actions is themselves evil. I'm going to be real, and not justify them. If the labels of good & evil were switched while you weren't looking, you wouldn't be able to distinguish between them.
Explain the RANSOM. Explain the SACRIFICE. If there were neither, accept your faith is a lie. That is all.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Explain the RANSOM. Explain the SACRIFICE""
Our evil should have brought eternal death to us all. God absorbed our evil in Himself for "He that knew no sin became sin for us" .
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - What is your definition of ransom, and of sacrifice? Then explain how Jesus is such. Stating scriptures all day isn't you expalining how the biblical Jesus scenerio qualifies as a ransom sacrifice.
How did Jesus sacrifice his life, if he's still living? Do you know what sacrifice means?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus People and groups in the OT were OFTEN getting special 'place' names and temporary names, to be used for a specific purpose. Solomon, for example, got TWO names at his birth (II Sam 12.25)--Solomon and Jedidiah. No reference is ever made to Jedidiah after that, but it doesn't seem to be an issue.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - You still haven't proven that Jesus was ever called Emmanuel. For the scripture to be a true prophecy, it sure falls short when you can't prove it. Jesus never materialized during OT writtings. So what was the specific purpose for naming Jesus a name he was never called. I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel. ""
You reveals what a desperate dude your are. This argument is meaningless for if one person called Him Emmanuel or his parents named him that in addition to Jesus, but no one else called him that , you have nothing but an argument from silence.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - I see you as being desperate. You mention animals getting sacrificed, and unsacrificed people benefiting from the meat of that animal. What did that have to do with anything. There is no connection of that example with one who is supposed to sacrifice, while knowing his sacrifice returns to him somehow. Here's the thing...the bible would have mentioned if he was NAMED Emmanuel. If the bible doesn't, then I have a powerful arguement.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""I can stand by saying he was never NAMED Emmanuel. ""
Further if it was ever stated that he was officlally named Emmanuel, one could call that a self-fulfulling prophecy. So it is a moot point. It seems that author mentioned it bc of the meaning of the word "God with us"
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Instead of trying to put the burden of proof on me, it's on you. Which author? The author of the book of Isaiah, or the author of the book of Matthew? Still, he wasn't NAMED Emmanuel. You can run circles around this point all day, if that makes you feel better. At the end of the day, Jesus wasn't NAMED Emmanuel.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Do you know what sacrifice means?""
WOrds have several meaning and the context decides and adds nuances of meaning to the word.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Stop hiding behind the silly "context" argument I knew you would pull, and give me the defintion. OK student...I'll make it blarringly simple for you. Give me the definition where the one who "sacrifices" a particular thing, knows in advance, that they get their "sacrifice" right back. How's that for context? :>)
In the real world, that's not called a sacrifice...it's called an opportunity.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus """context" argument I knew you would pull,""
Yep and I knew that ud whine and moan that I dispelled ur distortions of meaning with the clarfication that comes thru context.
The Jews sacrificed animals and then got the animals back in that they ate them. Jesus sacrificed His glory and perfection in absorbing the evil of the world in Himself. People dishonor God all the time and so He sacrifices his glory for us, esp. on the cross.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - i find it very telling that you can't expalin how this biblical Jesus sacrificed his life. You are reaching very far when mentioning the eating of sacrificed animals. In that instance, it is the animal that loses it's life...and it never got it's life back...so I ask you AGAIN. How did Jesus sacrifice his life, and KNOWINGLY recieve it right back? What "context" of sacrifice actually allows for that happening?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
Every institution where u reject the rules and rebel, kicks u out. But God creates a world and u and then u rebel and he gives u chance after chance and even suffers the punishment that u deserve, and u still rebel. Yea u get kicked out and out of Gods presence is hell. God tries to warn ppl that it will feel like fire but instead ppl whine and moan that its not fair while they continue their rebellion.
j919or 4 months ago
@j919or - God didn't suffer for anyone. God isn't supposed to be able to die, so then if Jesus/God died, then he's not god. Simple. Also, Jesus ( as the bible portrays) never existed. In order for a Jesus Christ ( Christ means annointed and is not a name; fitting for the name of a mythical person) to have happened, he needed to qualify as a RANSOM SACRIFICE. If he is neither, then guess what? the very pillars of Christianity itself crumble...and they do. Care to explain how he's either?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""qualify as a RANSOM SACRIFICE""
Jesus qualified as a ransom sacrifice according to the terms of the prophecy of Isaiah 53 not according to your contrived standards. But feel free to bring ur malarky and be readily crushed.
Jesus means God our Savior and Christ means the annointed one. What is your point?
God didnt die and neither do we for we were created in Gods image. Our bodies die. Jesus' body died but he went immediately to be with the Father after He illustrated .....
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - What was his name? Yeshua? It's the same name as Joshua. Alot of Hebrews & Jews had that name...it was popular. Christ however isn't a name. I asked for an explaination of how Jesus is a RANSOM SACRIFICE. You only said Isa 53. Listen, scriptures come a dime a dozen, & completely falls short of doing the job of expalining how Jesus is supposed to be a RANSOM SACRIFICE. That explaination falls squarely on your shoulders. So, please expalin, or be crushed.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Isa 53. Listen, scriptures come a dime a dozen""
Isa 53. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities;
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Hmmm, Isaiah & those "prophecies". Isa 7:14 (Mt 1:23) says the Messiah would be named Emmanuel ( With Us Is God). This prophecy clearly failed, as Emmanuel isn't the same name as Yeshua ( Jehovah-Savior). Did the "prophecy" you cling to in Isaiah 53 do any better? Nope.
What was it that the Father recieved as payment so that He could be appeased with the relationship He could have with His own creation?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Emmanuel isn't the same name as Yeshua""
Prove that Jesus was never called Emmanuel. People were called many names then. Isa 9.6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
God absorbed our evil. The rest is him communicating that to us in our simplistic understanding and still you cant get it.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Where was Jesus NAMED (not "called") Emmanuel? He may have been CALLED the Carpenters Son, but he wasn't NAMED that!!
Now, if he was, or will be called other things, those are more like titles...NOT NAMES. What does Isa 7:14, and Mt 1:23 say? It says NAME. People went by one NAME then.
Naming, & calling are 2 different things, and I'm seeing this simple thing goes over your head.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - "God absorbed our evil." Really? When did he do that? God even states in your own bible that it is He who CREATES EVIL! In Isaiah 45:7, God Himself is saying He creates evil. It only makes sense that if something issues forth from someone, they can't absorb it. For God creates evil out of thin air!
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""In Isaiah 45:7, God Himself is saying He creates evil. ""
First, Im guessing that ROD is a college boy that has such little knowledge and boasts as if he were anything more than a lemming drone of the world system.
Second, the word translated evil there is better translated natural disaster. (NIV)
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - It's a fallacy to try & offend a person, when at all esle you can't offend the point being made. Typical for low-lifes. Sorry to break it to you, but the origin hebrew word written in that scripture is "ra". The primary meaning of "ra" is EVIL. See Strong's Hebrew Lexicon #7451 for a full discussion on the matter. Also in that scripture, the only other thing YHWH creates is DARKNESS. He admits to creating DARKNESS & EVIL. Hint- A college boy didn't write the Hebrew Lexicon. Just saying
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""The primary meaning of "ra" is EVIL.""
And there are two types of evil; moral evil and natural disaster. The context gives the preferrred meaning as the opposite of peace being disaster.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or "And there are two types of evil". What you fail to see, is that YWHW admits to creating evil. No matter what type. It completely escapes you that he here admits to CREATING EVIL, & DARKNESS. Does he also create a "good" darkness? You tell me:>)
It's fishy that YHWH only forms light, & peace. Look at the difference of "form", & "create". Creating happens out of thin air. Forming is merely shaping something that already exist. YHWH doesn't credit himself with creating light nor peace.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or - It's pretty obvious that the Evil being referred to in this scripture is pure evil. Do the words light, darkness, & peace mean differnt things too? It's clear that the scripture is showing contrast of peace & evil, darkness & light. Now look at which one YOUR God admits to creating.
Why doesn't He admit to creating light & peace ( the good things) in this scripture. Hmmm
I find it funny to see you run like this. I'll give you another scripture to contend with.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""pretty obvious that the Evil being referred ""
Its pretty obvious that ur rage and hostility towards God has distorted the ability that God gave u to think ratoinally. The opposite of moral evil is good and the opposite of natural disaster is peace. Those are the only two meaning of the word "ra"
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - First of all, a natural disaster is not a miracle by definition. I can understand if you & I were ancient people arguing about what seems like natural disasters. Ancients didn't know why those things happened, & I'd even say that a God must be behind it. But these days, we know so much more. You most likely think that rainbows are god's promise to man that a worldwide deluge will never happen again. Tsk tsk. tell me..why is there no rainbow after a heavy rain at night?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or YHWH admits to CREATING DARKNESS...NOT light! This part of the scripture is obvious that God creates the worse out of the two. The Hebrew Lexicon already shows that the context for "ra" in this scripture is EVIL. You can spin yourself, but not me. Strong's Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament breaks it down. Isa 45:7's "ra" means EVIL. Other scriptures are credited with calalmity, woe, afflictions, etc. But for this scholarly masterpiece, It says Isa 45:7 says EVIL. ...CONT
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or Listen to this video, while not lying to yourself. It's clear as day that YHWH is a creator of evil. Pure evil. Who does the bible credit for the ancient Israelite wars? It was YHWH. YHWH pretty much started the wars according to the bible. He is the instigator. In the bible, God instigates wars that bring on genocide, rape, abortion, slavery, etc. God also instigates lies to be told to mere human beings. WTF!! WHY would a God have to lie to puny humans powerless against him?
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""God instigates wars that bring on genocide, rape, abortion, slavery, etc. ""
Nah. Show where God condones rape and slavery and abortion, and ill show how irrational you have become. God does judge and eliminate evil people after much patience and warning. HIs great patience is the only reason that he still lets u live.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Are you familiar where God commands his people to kill another nation in a graphic way? He stated "rip open the pregnant womans belly". Hmm. Wouldn't this amount to killing the live fetus inside? Sure does. There goes your abortion buddy. And guess what, all I need is ONE scripture to drive home the point. You can't even give me ONE scripture concerning a "prophesy" of Jesus being NAMED Emmanuel. Instead, you try sad attempts of trying to put the burden of proof on me. Laughable.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""rip open the pregnant womans belly".
What is the context of that statement? Was it a prediction of what the other nations were going to do? Was it a command or just a statment of what was going to happen?
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - Elsewhere in the bible, Psalms 137:9 mentions "Happy are you, who dash to pieces against the rocks the children". Really? Would you be happy to do such a sick thing to a kid who is of no threat to you? I was referring to Hosea 13:16 where it shows God is encouraging this to happen literally when Samaria is subdued. YHWH encouraged the same act in 2 Kings, and in Amos. I guess YHWH inspired all of these attitudes and actions.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""I was referring to Hosea 13:16""
You are obviously hostile towards God, for you make up lies against Him.
1. Therefore you evidence that u are dishonest
2. You do have hostility for no one would make lies against something that they didnt believe existed
3. Hell is ur destiny and u totally deserve it
4. You wont repent and be saved for u are a child of satan and spawn of hell
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - How am I being dishonest about YHWH's inspired Word encouraging ripping open pregnant woman on more than 1 occasion? Why is a joyous verse referencing how happy you'll be when you rip open a pregnant womans belly, or dash children against rocks so hard, there body dismantles? Sick, sick you accept this! It is you who are evil, and you who is not morally correct enough to distinguish positive from negative. You will stay blind, & when Israelites utterly destroy you, you will deserve it.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@j919or "Nah. Show where God condones rape and slavery and abortion,.."
LOL. How come you didn't mention genocide in this sentence? Is that because you are already aware that God instigated genocide, so you didn't want to see it? I already gave the instance where abortion was commanded by God. Slavery, and rape will be later. Stay tuned.
Please explain how the Jesus biblical scenerio amounts to a SACRIFICE in your own words. We never got to the RANSOM portion yet. Hurry up slowpoke!!
RODikUlus 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RODikUlus ""genocide in this sentence? ""
It wasnt genocide, it was all the enemies of Israel destroyed in some cases. Those that had faith in God like Rahab were spared and integrated into society. God knows what is best in the long run. We see the outside and the temporary God see within peoples minds and knows their attitude and knows the end from the beginning.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - You said "But feel free to bring ur malarky and be readily crushed."
Just a little news. So far, anyone who reads our debate can easily see my logic crushed your belief. I wanted to go into so much more, but your unwilling to be honest with yourself, and this is how progress never happens. Stop lying to yourself, so that you can stop lying to others.
YHWH has to have evil in Him...for did He require Satans help in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""YHWH has to have evil in Him...for did He require Satans help in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"?""
Now I will publically crush you for all to see, you loathsome spawn of satan! Evil is the absence of good, it is not a thing. The absence of God is where evil comes from. God releases his control just a bit and it creates evil. Gods goal is that people would willingly learn to desire and even crave and cling to his control.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - Sorry to crush you publically. I directly asked you if YHWH used Satan somehow in the creation of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". You do believe this was a literal tree ( 1 tree) that possessed good & evil. If YHWH created that tree from His own hand, why did it not possess ALL goodness? Why was there even a bit of evil in it? i already explained ( & you agreed) that light and dark exist in the same space. Now you're flip flopping because I crushed you!! It gets better.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""( 1 tree) that possessed good & evil""
You add and make up stuff as you go. No where does it say that the tree POSSESSED evil.
strengthinweakness1 2 months ago
@strengthinweakness1 - I'm not making up anything. Ask yourself what the tree of life was able to do to the partaker. By YHWH's own admittion, eating of that tree gave the partaker everlasting life. Was it a literal tree according to your Chrsitian belief? Yep. You believe that this was a literal magical tree. Same goes for the tree of the knowledge of good & evil. What was that tree able to do to the partaker? It opened "eyes"/mind to know what YHWH knew. YHWH admits this too.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "tree gave the partaker everlasting life"
If you want the life of God it is yours for the taking. Most people dont want the life of God. Bc they dont want to change. Why do u think that Adam didnt first of that tree?They want to stay as they are for they only trust their own senses and they wont trust their creator. This is insanity to the infinite degree. And yall are infiected with it to this day.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - Nope. YHWH said man was created in his image. Then he dangled the 2 things that hinge on our every desire. Life eternal, & bottomless knowledge...which happens to be the things that define God. It's a myth, an aesops fable through & through. It's insanity not to see this.
Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?
It truly is insanity when you consider YHWH is supposed to know what will happen before it does. He wanted this.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?"
Temptation simply means to reveal what is there. A test just reveals how much u know and a test/temptation just reveals how lacking u r and how much u need more training. The honest receive that training and it teaches us to love God which alone results in eternal bliss and not eternal misery.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - I like how you mention YHWH is omnisicent ( a know it all), and then you mention YHWH makes a test. A test would make no sense to a being with omnisicence. For if YHWH knew A & E would fail this "test", what does the scripture mean when it says YHWH will not let you take on more temptation than you can bear? If YHWH KNEW they'd succumb, then that scripture isn't true. Requriement for a test just reveals that YHWH isn't omnisicent. Not even close...for YHWH seems to learn so much later.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or -You've dodged- "Why would a God create temptable humans & angels, and then punish them for being temptable?"
If a Maker of a product according to a purpose, tested it, & it fell short....who in thier right mind actually blames the product? Any sane person realizes that the Maker has a short coming. A perfect Maker couldn't fuck up. Neither can his creation. Name to me a product that fell short, & the product got blamed. The buy bull attempts to get you to accept this flawed thinking.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""Maker couldn't fuck up."
Nah He only made a mistake according to ur twisted judgment. Your mistake is that u wont admit that u are evil, missing the created purpose to reflect the goodness of God and enjoy God forever. If you did youd be saved. But u refuse and hence God will use you as a vessel to manifest his wrath, that is your new purpose, since u rejected the created purpose.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - I don't have twisted judgement. I'll prove it again, in case the point didn't sink in the 1st time. I'll even put the ball in your court, so here's your chance to shine. Name to me ANY product that fell short of it's intended purpose, & the product got ALL the blame...not the maker. Please, be truthful in your answer.
Now, if YHWH is all knowing, He was fine with punishing a considerable portion of what He's the 1st case for. Isn't that winning!?!?!? No, it's sad.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "the product got ALL the blame...""
Sure dude. The doctor gave the patient some medicine and the patient refused to take it and died. The family had a son and the son refused education and the families care and love and he overdosed and died. Thats you.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - I like how you mentioned the son refused education. YHWH was holding back knowledge? A & E were nothing more than adult bodies, with child like brains. For they have had no life experiences. What is so harmful about making an educated decision? Knowing evil, and good meant they would have known both sides of the coin. It's the only way that we today can make an informed choice. If you made the rules, would you punish with death an inexperienced kid for eating a tempting desert?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - Do you really think a God created 2 humans, who could eat fruit from trees, & needed to eat from a special magical tree to sustain their relationship with their maker? Really? What would have happened if A & E ate only the normal fruit, & none of the magic trees? They would have died eventually...then where would their relationship be with YHWH if they physically died?
You've been lying to yourself for some time now. When will you start being honest with yourself?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - Now, this example you gave falls short. The doctor isn't the Maker of the medicine. You can try again. The maker should know what side effects will happen...but after the fact, YHWH later tells A & E that they will live a horrible life, and that ALL of their offspring will suffer. Now, if that was made clear to A & E from the beginning, do you think the story would be the same?
Again. U R lying to yourself here. Jesus isn't a ransom sacrifice by any stretch of imagination/delusion.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - This is a dishonest answer. I'm sure you heard this at church. That church is a dangerous place, because it takes away your thinking abilities. I stated specifically "Name to me ANY product that fell short of it's intended purpose, & the product got the blame...not the maker." I asked you to be truthful. This should cause you to think past the churches default answer.
How does a patient that didn't use the product apply? Obviously, by my statement, the product had to be used.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - "and the son refused education" Education has the end result of knowing. In the Genesis account, then why is YHWH creating knowledge that He actually wants to hold back? Why is YHWH making ( what you believe to be poison) that "poison" to look delicious. Why didn't He make it repulsive? YHWH is sort of like the wicked witch in snow white. Why didn't the witch make the apple look like poison? Because she had an agenda...much like YHWH. CONTINUED-----
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus , God made the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil so that we could see for ourselves, how flawed we really are for doubting Him.
But God is not evil, He is made of truth and goodness.
TheCrimsonRex 2 months ago
@TheCrimsonRex - How much of the debate have you read? You've answered that God made a tree of knowledge for the purpose of getting mankind to see truths about themselves.
In the Genesis account, it seems as God created that tree to deny it to mankind.
Saying that God is made of truth & goodness is debatable.
If God is actually God along with all of the OMNI's, then there is no way I can persecute Him.
Thanks for trying to help j919or realize the Christian way.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@strengthinweakness1 - "No where does it say that the tree POSSESSED evil."
Where does it say that the tree POSSESSED good?
Where does it say that YHWH lives outside of space and time? You're the one making up stuff as you go. Where does it say that YHWH exist in an enviroment that other spirit creatures can't?
If God admits to having the knowledge of good & evil, along with the other spirits He talks to in Genesis, how did A&E having it, amount to a rejection of YHWH?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "tree POSSESSED good?"
The tree possessed nothing. Youre still making stuff up. The tree was what God said not to eat. Disobedience to the will of God brought evil. And it brought the experiencial knowledge of the difference between good and evil.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - Something is seriously wrong with you. According to thte story, YHWH admits in Gen 3:22 that man ( after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil) has become like "one of us ( Elohim) in knowing good and bad. The instant A & E ate from it, there eyes were open. There perception changed into a perception more like the Elohim. How can you say this wasn't a literal magical tree which possessed within it the power to change the perception of the partaker?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "become like "one of us "
The knowledge of evil gave man a knowledge that He couldnt handle and that would ruin him. God knew what evil was by omnisicence and Adam knew by experience and it ruined him by making him think in a dangerous new way.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - You really don't even know the stories you believe so much. Did you not notice that the tree of life made it possible to live forever? Again, Gen 3:22 shows that YHWH wanted angelic help in preventing A & E from eating that tree. You see, this tree is something like the mythical fountain of youth. It's a story, and it has a God that made it possible for His creation to be just like Him ( in knowledge and eternal life), but prevents them. All myths are somewhat like this.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "tree of life made it possible to live forever? "
But once Adam sinned, he was corrupted and to live forever in that state wouldve been hell. So God restricted the tree of life until after He could redeem man from His corruption. Later at the end we find in Revelation 22 that God gives men the tree of life to symbolize that man now has awesome quality of life and will enjoy that forever.
I already experience to some degree the new life of God every day.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - If you read Gen 3:22-24 very well, you can make out that A & E were created set up to die. Eating of either of the magical trees started it's irreversible effect. Once the tree of life was eaten, it caused immortality. The bible tells you in no uncertain terms they were prevented from partaking from the Tree of Life so they WOULDN'T live forever!
Sijnce you don't feel these were literal magic trees, then that means that you also believe A&E, YHWH, & the serpant were figuraltive too.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus ""prevented from partaking from the Tree of Life ""
Only after then became corrupt were they banned for to live forever in a corrupt state is hell. I think u should just get what u want and that is self will and self glory in hell. And I imagine that u will get ur wish and continue raging against God forever from hell...so sad.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - "I think u should just get what u want..."
I think you should demonstrate how Jesus is a sacrifice. I noticed you can't do it, for you would have in these 6+ weeks we've debated. All of your answers have been the regugitated Chrisitian answers. Not once have you shown that YOU are thinking. Your letting the doctrine creators do your thinking for you. For being so lazy, you end up with no reward. They laugh at you while accepting your tithe...so sad.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
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@RODikUlus "regugitated Chrisitian answers"
Nah. Some are shared by my brothers but most all come from the wisdom of God. Jesus sacrificed his very soul in that "He that knew no sin, became sin for us" and "He made his soul an offering for sin". God absorbed our evil in himself and overcame it, but it caused God eternal suffering even though from the human viewpoint it only took an instant.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - What do you mean Jesus "knew no sin". Certainly he did. I already stated that Jesus had the knowledge of good and evil. So, how is it that YHWH allowed Jesus to possess such knowledge, while remaining sinless, but YHWH didn't let Adam & Eve possess the same exact knowledge without sinning.
Also, Jesus would have had sinned...according to his own gauge of sin.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - This Tree of Life. Many Christians believe A & E were created perfect, and would never have died...as if A & E were created to live forever. look at what partaking of it did. It enabled the partaker to live forever. Just one bite. Why would that tree be there if God actually created the first perfect human pair able to live forever? The tree would only be there to tease them, as YHWH already knew He would later ban them from it.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus You err because you dont understand the terms life and death out side of bodily function. Adam died when he sinned in that he was separated from God and Adam would have been connected to God forever if he wouldve eaten from the tree of life. But apparently he didnt think he needed that spiritual life/connection to God. But he did think that he needed to experience evil for himself.
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - "Adam died when he sinned in that he was seperate from God"
Again, you can't tell how mythical this all sounds? You are indeed trapped in a mental prison...the worst kind...you can't see the box you're forced to stay inside of. To believe YHWH designed an arrangement for his creation to only have an amazing relationship with Him, based on 2 magical trees?!? Where does the text say that the knowledge of good & evil wasn't able to be handled by A & E? Why did Jesus have it as a human?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - Just for clarification, YHWH ( original Hebrew has Elohim, & Elohim doesn't mean "God") puts 2 literal magical trees in the garden to ban 1 of them to mankind, while putting the desire for both in mankind. If man was made YHWH image, wouldn't man want eternal life, and complete knowledge? Sure would. Why did YHWH make it such a priority to ban the tree of life? Answering the tree wasn't literal or magical shows that YHWH, serpant, A & E weren't literal either.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - After reading Gen 3:22, there should be no way that you can continue saying that these 2 trees created from YHWH's own hands, were literal magical trees that had specific powers within them. According to your belief, you HAVE to believe the tree of life can make a person live forever. You HAVE to believe that the tree of knowledge changed the perception, enabling one to know both sides of the coin...hence the good & the evil.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@RODikUlus "magical trees "
Nah they werent magical trees but props to teach a lesson to A&E and all that read later. One tree symbolized disobedience and the other symbolized partaking of the life of God. So the question is: Do you want God or do u want to rebel against God?
j919or 2 months ago
@j919or - No, both of those trees represented the core desires of man. The stuff that eludes him. Eternal life, and endless knowledge. Saying the knowledge of good & evil just means all encompassing knowledge...because to the ancients, if one knew all there is to lknow about evil, & all there is to know about good, then that one knew everything, hence, why the mythical YHWH and his angelic host needed to know this. Are you familiar with the Hebrew word Elohim. It doesn't mean "God".
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - If YHWH is perfect, then He has no need to test. For anything created by a perfect creators hand is above test, & hence perfect...according to it's purpose. So, since the purpose of man existed before man actually did ( for clarification, I don't believe this), what was the purpose of man? Check out what the bible says about that. A perfect creator wouldn't allow room for any tolerance for a creation to go against it's inteneded purpose.
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@j919or - God made an institution where He made it law to (1) not steal, & (2) not kill. In order to get a land to call your own, the God who made those laws told you to KILL the Caanites, so you can STEAL their land? If you could live in that institution of la la land, where "firm" laws are placed for the purpose of being disobeyed--by it's creators command, & turned back on when He feels like it, then hypocracy loves you. Intelligence isn't on the side of this institution.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@RODikUlus ""God who made those laws told you to KILL the Caanites, so you can STEAL their land?""
In personal matters dont kill is the command but governments kill and steal the guns of the defeated nations. The command was never meant for governments but for individuals.
j919or 3 months ago
@j919or - "The command was never meant for governments but for individuals." In case you haven't noticed, a nation is made up of basic units of families. Individuals make up families. If this biblical passage is true, then individuals from YHWH were commanded to KILL & STEAL from individuals from another land.
Which one of those Caanites would have not taken it personally?
So, you see, you're answer makes no sense, just like your belief system.
RODikUlus 3 months ago
@EdwardVonFishington i am so sorry for threatening you or anyone,its not my GOD'S will that i should threaten you or anyone.My GOD love you just as he love me,again i am so sorry for representing HIM in the wrong way .
thrangki 7 months ago
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. --Albert Einstein
Shalekitty 7 months ago 2
Jesus is the new covenant but the jews refuse to accept him,GOD IS GOD SO PLEASE DONT COMPARE YOURSELF TO,HIM LEARN TO RESPECT HIM AND YOU MAY LIVE..THE DAYS WHEN JEWS WERE THE CHOSEN ONES ENDED THE DAY JESUS WAS BORN ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life JOHN 3:15'',
thrangki 9 months ago
@thrangki So because God says "I promise I won't do it anymore, love you all, bye" he is absolved of responsibility? No. Great power begets great responsibility, and absolute power begets absolute responsibility. God in his infinite wisdom knows this is true. So, God is either malevolent, or not infinite in his wisdom. God is a small petulant child with a fist that shatters the earth on a chaotic whim and shows no penance, makes no reparations. I reject such a god, and gain enlightenment.
Shalekitty 8 months ago
@Shalekitty lets say you work or run a business would you not be expected to follow or lay down some rules and regulations in order that it runs well,and what if you failed or someone in your organisation did not follow said rules wouldn't action be taken against you or that individual for the sake of the business so that others who follow these rules and depend on it for their livelihood do not perish.GOD is a great leader to me and i guess it'll take some time for a child to understand this.
thrangki 8 months ago
@thrangki Business owners do not condemn their employees to eternal pain and suffering for failing to refill copy toner, nor slay outright the children of employees who do not follow their employee handbook to the letter. they do not command the wholesale slaughter of rival companies. The premise of "does god have the authority to mete out punishment?" is not the issue. the issue is: If this punishment is from God, is it just, and does God deserve the allegiance of his followers? I say no.
Shalekitty 8 months ago
@Shalekitty God does not punish but only forgives.Yes in order for him to be just, he can only allow the people who follow his ways to live with him in heaven. God gave you and me free will,we can choose how to live and treat each other here on earth,( i am very sure Nazis NOT GOD who killed people). Humans loves to control each other.Just look at nations without God i bet you know their Human Rights track record and compare that to the U.S whose constitution was written based on the Bible
thrangki 7 months ago
@thrangki Again, not addressing the issue: Is God, if he exists, which I don't think he does, accountable for atrocities that he personally committed in the old testament? I say Yes. If God did the things that the Old Testament credits him with, then he is not considerate or fair. He is a bully and a despot. If he were a head of government, rather than a deity, he would be overthrown in a week.
Shalekitty 7 months ago
@thrangki
I know of no Atheist nations. None. at all. The majority of the west is either christian, catholic, etc. The middle east, and a large chunk of Africa is Muslim, Asia is predominantly Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, Hindi, or a myriad of others. America was founded with the idea of freedom of religion. that is freedom from religion too. that is that you can worship, or not, whatever god, gods, or no god as you deem appropriate. hence, the first amendment.
Shalekitty 7 months ago
@thrangki The U.S. constitution is based on the Bible? Have you been smoking crack? They have the first amendment specifically to separate the constitution and all religion. How on earth do you get these crazy things in your head? As for your other stuff, yes humans harm other humans but if the Old Testament is to be believes God both harmed humans directly and ordered humans to harm other humans. This is not the behaviour of an all loving being.
limericklad2000 4 months ago
the survival of faith after the shoah is what makes the jewish poeple great!
pboisei 1 year ago
@pboisei or imbeciles
Timxify 11 months ago
@pboisei or slaves
Timxify 11 months ago
@pboisei or foolish. But I think you're wrong. Atheism is growing more rapidly in the Jewish population than any other. Gee. Wonder why?
Pilaf1984 9 months ago
@Pilaf1984
mainly because Judaism encourages debate and arguing we study books and even the greatest Jewish thinkers encouraged mastering the secular subjects.
pboisei 9 months ago
@Pilaf1984 ...it's not just the Jewish faith but all over the world. It's nothing to be concerned about. God has already PREDESTINED who will be saved and who will not. The Bible tells us clearly that as the end time draws near, more and more of the world will turn their backs on God. God is not interested in QUANTITY...just QUALITY. Look at what He accomplished with just 12 dedicated Apostles.
bornagain001 9 months ago
@bornagain001 "God has already PREDESTINED who will be saved and who will not... And I'm one of the saved!" Narcissism at it's finest.
Keitaro2011 9 months ago 2