@customanalogue, I would encourage you to view my video on the Royal Us. There is no semetic language that uses a plural relating to and individual B.C. Numerous times God is self identified as plural throughout the old testament, there is no getting around this also in the new testament Jesus charged to baptize in the name "singular" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, here we find the plural expressed in a singular name again revealing God's nature to be plural while being one God!
the wts believe in a different Jesus,they DON`T believe in Jesus of Nazereth.jw`s will refuse to say that they believe in Jesus o Nazereth,they say they believe in the Jesus of the bible bt there r 5 ppl who share the name Jesus in the bible and anyone who does`nt believe in Jesus of Nazereth believes in a false Jesus and there4 is still in his/her sin.
"Thou shalt have no OTHER GODS before me." Seems to me that that means there are other gods. In old clay tablets, your mighty Yahweh is called the cup bearer of El, King of the Canaanite gods, so it seems Monotheism has just been proven to be a bunch of BULLSHIT.
WalkingThroughOut, In Colossians (1:16,17) the word other has been added 4 times against the Greek in the NWT. This is a major alteration of Scripture made in it to deny the deity of Christ. I did a survey of the word rock through the NWT and was amazed at what lengths the translation committee went to to try to change it in passages to try to make it seem that the inspired word didn't apply it the same throughout Scripture, in fact in 1 Corinthians (10:3,4) they change the word to rock-mass.
WalkingThroughOut, I don't use just one translation but I think that the use of more than one can give one a better perspective especially since there are modern translations.There are extremely valuable books that show clearly what the Greek is and how it translates into English so you don't have to be a Greek scholar to know the original Greek and its translation into English.This is important since Scripture can be aligned to fit false ideologies.Even on a small scale this is very rewarding.
You should read chapter 53 and 54 and I think it was also verse 5 in chapter 55 of Isaiyah in the NWT, is will blow you away. The translators managed to demonstrate that Jesus is God, even thought they did not intend it. :)
Epidome, Hi - response to your comment, of course Almighty God (Jehovah) is one and he created Michael (Jesus)(he first begotten Son, not a God) and thru him all things happened. The Rock of Israel is Jesus - created by Jehovah. It was Jesus that was the rock of the church not Peter. God (Jehovah) is not more than one person I agree- Luke 4:8 All things come thru the Son (not a God, not Jehovah) read Acts 4:12.
refimanloans, Jesus can't only be the rock. Both the Father and the Son are the rock and only God is the rock. Deuteronomy (32:4) The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he. Psalms (92:15) To tell that Jehovah is upright. [He is] my Rock, in whom there is no unrighteousness. Even the NWT makes it very clear that Jehovah is the Rock and that Jesus is the Rock. There is no way around it.
refimanloans, all that I am using is Scripture, the Bible alone at face value but you will not. As long as you depend on Watchtower literature to view scripture through you will deny even what the Bible clearly says. On the subject of the rock the Bible clearly calls the Father and the Son the rock but because you won't let the Bible speak for itself you will deny regardless because your commitment is to the organization and what they say not God and what he says. You don't need the WTBTS.
Isaiah(44:8)Do not be in dread, YOU people, and do not become stupefied.Have I not from that time on caused you individually to hear and told [it] out?And YOU are my witnesses. Does there exist a God besides me?No, there is no Rock.I have recognized none.Here God makes clear there is no other God but him and that he is the only rock yet Jesus is the rock.1Corinthians(10:3,4) and 1Corinthians(3:11).In 2Samuel(23:3)God says that the Rock spoke to him, God is the Rock, God is more than one person.
JW'S do not call Jesus a God - so all this doesn't make sense to me. JW'S believe God created Jesus as the first begotten Son but never will the JW'S claim that Jesus (who was sent by the active force (Holy Spirit) into the womb of Mary to take away the sins of the world, to pay the ransom and to usher in the new age of Jesus being the Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. Read Matthew 4:10 - "It is Jehovah your God you must worship.
Hey great to see you on here! i was just browsing and came across your vids.They are awesome and so much truth and i really enjoyed them.Thanks for sharing them with us :) A day spent without learning something is a day wasted.
If the Trinity isn't what the Bible alone teaches than why has the WTBTS altered scriptures to deny it? Clo (1:16,17) the word other is inserted twice and again without brackets in Phil (2:9).The two reasons that the NWT committee cited for using brackets don't apply in Col (1:16:17) and by not placing brackets around the word other in Phi (2:9) they violate their own guidelines for using them. What it really is, is a deception to fit the WTBTS's doctrine that is not from the Bible but from men.
The doctrine of the Trinity originated with the first century Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses haven't even existed except just over a hundred years and has changed its name many times, claimed that their books and magazines are authored by God who doesn't change yet their literature and doctrines have time and time again, false predictions about the end of the world, medical prohibitions commanded then recinded.If the governing body is God's channel of communication than why are they wrong often
Acts (28:25) They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
Acts (28:26,27) 'Go to this people and say,"You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." For this people's heart has become colloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.
Isaiah (6:9,10) Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" He said, "Go and tell this people:Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
DBF: In what way does the word, "Word of God" contradict the deity of Christ? The Bible is the written Word, that is God in written form, the Bible is alive right? The Living Word of God.
Why do you JW want to limit God so much that you can "understand" Him? You say that He is not Omniscient, that He can "Choose" to close His eyes? Why is it "impossible" for God to become Flesh? Why is it "impossible" for God to create the world in six days? Im curious if you have ever thought of this.
You quote this, "If God is not Triune than how do you explain Genexsis (1:26) Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. Genesis (11:7) Come, let us go down and confuse their language. And Isaiah (6:8) "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" That scripture says "I" in the first sentence. That shows us that God is the only one true God. As for second sentence, Jesus is Son of God, therefore Jesus works with his Father. Another example is that Jesus tended to refer to himself as "Son of man" more often than "Son of God" to avoid the confusion about him being God. How can Jesus be God and Son OF God at the same time anyway?
Our doctrine is from the Bible. If Jesus is God then that contradicts the Bibical Scriptures whose are Word of God. If Jehovah wanted to, He could have told someone to write down the scroll saying that "my firstborn son is God." If Jesus is truly God, he would have said so. So what you tried to prove is all misinterpretation. There is no evidence in Scriptures regarding Trinity. It is just as Yahwehthetrue1God said, there is no proof that Jesus is actually God the Son. Rather he is Son OF God.
DBF: Let me ask you a few questions. First I disagree with you on the divinity of Christ, and even if you claim that it is from the Bible, it may not neccesarily be the truth. You and me we read the Bible differently, obviously. But let me ask you this, do you truly want to find out the truth about God, or do you believe you already have the truth about God? Do you believe it is theoreticly possible for God to become human? and the last question. Who is the Truth the Watchtower or Christ?
DFB: But Jesus is the one that sent all the prophets of Israel. He says so Himself if my memory doesnt fail me. How do you explain that? (Ill find you the reference later)
No one can answer how Jesus can be both Man and God the Son at the same time. And to be honest, it is the wrong question to ask. You cannot use reason and logic when it comes to this, for you and me we have limited knowledge of the spiritual. God is God, and let God be God.
Regarding John 8 Setting the context of the passage we find that Jesus speaks of Abraham and states, "Abraham your father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced." How would Jesus know that Abraham saw it and rejoiced? Jesus was not even 50 years old, so they ask, "you have seen Abraham?" (Joh. 8:57)
Jesus response to them then relates to how he saw Abraham. One might respond by noting that if Jesus were claiming to be God it would only have been natural and implied that he had seen Abraham. Nevertheless, a claim to be God through the words "I am" would make this sentence nothing more than nonsense, as a simple substitution of any other title or name. Looking to the grammar of the text, we find it clearly involving his existence.
How then should we translate John 8:58? I am in Johns Gospel": "The verb 'to be' is used differently, in what is presumably its basic meaning of 'be in existence', in John 8:58: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi, which would be most naturally translated 'I have been in existence since before Abraham was born', if it were not for the obsession with the simple words 'I am'.
If we take the Greek words in their natural meaning, as we surely should, the claim to have been in existence for so long is in itself a staggering one, quite enough to provoke the crowd's violent reaction."
Now the Septuagint was the translation done for the benefit of the increasing number of Greek-speaking Jews a couple of centuries earlier, so naturally it is the version of the Old Testament that is normally referred to in the New Testament, and certainly the one most likely to be known to the early readers of John's Gospel.
Its translation of Exodus 3:14 follows the sense (as understood by the Jewish translators) rather than the exact form of the Hebrew: E·go´ ei·mi ho on which translates into English literally as 'I am the being one',' and 'the being one has sent me'. Now the words E·go´ ei·mi they do not echo the words of Exodus 3:14 in the normally quoted Greek version.
If Jesus would have said he is E·go´ ei·mi ho on instead of JUST E·go´ ei·mi then JWs might have problem, but he didnt NWT translates John 8:58 accurately.
If we were to conclude E·go´ ei·mi was being used as Gods name then you would have a problem with John 9:9 where Jesus healed the blind man and this verse says "Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (E·go´ ei·mi) he the same EXACT E·go´ ei·mi used by Jesus in John 8:58. And there are many other scriptures where people use the same wording, but no one says that they try claim to be God.
The NWT also wrongly translates John 8:58- Their strange rendering for this verse is:Jesus said to them: "most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."The Greekword-for-word rendering states I am instead of I have been. Furthermore, the Greek words from which this translation comes is supposed to be:properly rendered in the perfect tense.
John 8:58 is accurately translated Before Abraham, I am. But whats the point? Were the Jews asking for his identity or his age/existence? If Jesus gave them his identify he wouldnt be answering there questions. Before Abraham came into existence, I have been make is answering Jews question.
Sir: Jesus christ revealed Himself, who He was in John 8:58. By using the exact words that YHWH used at the burning bush, "Ego Eimi" altho in greek. It is the title of God, that He applied to Himself. Further, in luke 4:8, the devil asks Christ to do obeisance before him, and Christ says, only to God shall you do obeisance. So the question is in Heb 1:6, God, the Father, tells everyone to do obeisence to Christ. This verse, proves with no doubt that being the Son of God means they are EQUAL.
Mekelsior I see you made a comment to me but you didnt answer the question in my comment. Were the Jews asking for his identity or his age/existence? If Jesus gave them his identify he wouldnt be answering there questions. Before Abraham came into existence, I have been is answering the Jews question. Meaning he existed before Abraham.
Sir: Jesus did answer the question that they really wanted to know. If you look closely at the story the discussion is on the identity of Christ. He claimed that He was the Son of God, the Messiah. To further state that "I AM" to use the name of God, the one YHWH uttered at the burning bush, was the only answer Christ could have given.
Many times aswell, Christ seemingly does not answer the questions of those that ask. Such as Nicodemus and the lady at the well.
Mekelsior I agree with you that Jesus did answer their question, and their question was regarding age/existence, not identity. vs 57 You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus didnt say before Abraham was Im God or YHWH. He said before Abraham was I am. I am what??? Existed before Abraham. If we were to interpret it your way Jesus wouldnt be answering the Pharisees question like he has been through out the context.
Further more, to prove Jesus wasnt claiming to be God he consistently said he wasnt seeking his glory vs 50 through the context his glory and honor is nothing vs 54. How can Gods glory be nothing??? Suppose the Almighty God was in the flesh how can his glory be nothing? Your interpretation just doesnt work!!!
Sir: True, Jesus Christ didnt claim to be God, infact it took quite some time before the diciples of Christ even dared to answer the question of Christ, "Who do you think I am?" Peter boldly proclaimed, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." The question is now, what does it mean to be the Messiah? It means, the Annointed one. Who is the Annointed one? The Bible is clear, God is the Annointed one.
Mekelsior Your comment is not correct that "The Bible is clear, God is the Annointed one". The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures uses the same Greek word khri·stos´ more than 40 times, frequently as a title of anointed priests, kings, and prophets. Aaron the high priest was "the anointed one," commissioned and "appointed in behalf of men over the things pertaining to God." (Le 4:3, 5, 16; 8:12; Heb 5:1)
Expressing his judgment on the house of Eli, Jehovah promised to raise up a faithful priest who would walk before Gods anointed one (khri·stos´) for all time.—1Sa 2:35. So if we were to conclude with your reasoning then ALL the anointed priests, kings, and prophets are God since they are anointed?
In addition, God isnt the anointed one but does the anointing. Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Who made Jesus the Christ? Answer God. It doesnt say God anointed himself but did the anointing, he anointed his Son that is clear in the bible.
God making Christ anything does not deny Jesus being God because God is not one person. Jesus could sit at the right hand of the Almighty and still be Almighty God since God is three persons, whatever goes on between the Son and the Father does not stop one of them from being God. JESUS IS GOD OUR SAVIOR - Titus (1:3) and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
refimanloans, if you have one stool with three legs each leg is separate from the other though they are each a part of one thing, a stool. The eternal divine nature of God is what makes the three persons one though they are individual they are one in nature and cause, they are parts of one thing that being divine nature.
refimanloans, If God is not more than one person how do you explain Isaiah(44:8)God makes clear here that there are no other gods and that he is the only rock yet in 2Samuel(23:3)God says that the rock spoke to him. God makes clear that he is the only rock and scripture time and time again proclaims that God is the Rock of Israel yet God says that the Rock spoke to him and 1Corinthians(10:3,4)says Jesus is the rock also 1Corinthians(3:11)says that Jesus is the stone/foundation of Christianity!
I believe that in answering "I am" He gave them both His "age" and identity. If they wanted His age, He couldn't answer in "years" or whatever. He let them know that He was eternal...at the same time it clarified His identity. That's why they tried to stone Him...for blasphemy. They knew exactly what He was claiming - to be the "I am" of the Hebrew scriptures.
There are so many problems with your conclusions it was hard for me to know where to begin. The I AM theory isnt even agreed among Trinitarians and there are good reasons for this. The word translated "I am" is the Hebrew verb ehyeh.
This verb is an imperfect and can technically be translated in one of a few different ways. While the most common translation within Exodus 3:14 is "I am," one cannot help but notice that this rendering is somewhat out of place. Examining the context of Exodus 3:14, we look back to verse 12 where God explains to Moses, "I will be with you." Here the words "I will be" are translated from the very same Hebrew word, ehyeh.
Indeed, ehyeh is often translated "I will be" within scripture. Examples of this include Jos. 1:5, Jdg. 6:16, 1Sam. 23:17, 2Sam. 7:14, 15:34, 16:18, 1Chr. 17:13, Isa. 47:7 and Jer. 11:4. Which rendering is correct and what is the meaning of Exodus 3:14? Consider what the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) states on this issue:
"This has been supposed to mean 'self-existence,' and to represent God as the Absolute. Such an idea, however, would be a metaphysical abstraction, not only impossible to the time at which the name originated, but alien to the Heb[rew] mind at any time. And the imperfect 'ehyeh is more accurately tr[anslated] 'I will be what I will be,' a Sem[etic] idiom meaning,
'I will be all that is necessary as the occasion will arise... The optional reading in the ARV margin is much to be preferred: I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE, indicating His covenant pledge to be with and for Israel in all the ages to follow.
This understanding is attested to not only by Christian sources such as the ISBE, but Jewish alike. For example, Rabbi Jordan Cohen explains: "Moses perceived that the people would want to know which attribute of God they can expect to encounter; that is, what their experience of God will be, and what is going to happen to them. God's answer, then, leaves things open-ended.
Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh is based on the future tense conjugation of the Hebrew verb meaning to be. Often translated as I Am Who I Am, the phrase is more accurately translated as I Will Be That Which I Will Be. The people will come to know God through their unfolding experiences together
It's worthless to explain it to him because I have tried to convience him that Jesus isn't God. Jesus has emphasised MANY MANY times in Gospels that Jesus isn't God. He only refered to himself as Son of God as well as Son of man.
DBF: Read the gospel of John, and pay close attention to chapter 1 and 14, then do a verse for verse study in Revelation, try and find Jesus in every verse. Also study this without the aid of watchtower publications, and pray exceedingly to God that He would reveal to you the true identity of Jesus Christ. But you must truly want to know the truth, and not believe that you have it, for who knows, maybe you have been decieved by men with good intentions.
I've always known the truth for nearly a year. You want me to believe that jesus is God which didn't reveal in the Bible? It is you who need to study the verse, not me. Jesus mentioned many, many times that he isn't God. Oh I remember the scripture that matches how you are blinded from the truth. Satan has always been transforming into an angel of light. Know that scripture? Have a nice day. Good job attempting this one.
DBF: I understand why you believe what you believe. Im sorry that you do not wish to proceed with understanding the truth. You should become more critical and not accept everything that men are producing. Ask yourself, why should you listen to the men in brooklyn over the Word of God, in prayer and the direction of His Holy Spirit? I know it is an appeal to your emotions, but also to your logic and reasoning, God gave you a brain so think criticaly, test all things. Never stop seeking God.
Mekelsior, I thank for your passion and willingness to put forth so much effort to those who appose belief in the nature of Christ according to what is revealed in scripture. This isn't a small issue for it determines salvation, I hope the people on here know that this is being done out of love for them and that they are not our enemies. Jehovah's Witnesses are devout, dedicated to the bone, there is much to admire about them. It is the WTBTS that are wolves, its their lies were trying to expose
You claim the NWT is bias but the honest truth is ALL English bibles are bias. Can you tell me an English bible that isnt bias? Here are many bibles that translate John 8:58 the same way has the NWT and the thing is some of these translators are Trinitarians. The I AM theory isnt even a good areguement in opinion.
Jehovah's Witnesses, I know that you believe that there are no mysteries in the Bible and that everything is within man's reason or else God would be a God of confusion which he clearly states that he isn't.I challenge and say that not everything in the Bible is withing human grasp and that doesn't make God a God of confusion. God exists from eternity past, he has no beginning, the nature of God is beyond human reason to fully understand the nature of God you would have to be God.
Not everything in the Bible is explained and those things which are not are often beyond our capabilities to understand somethings just have to be accepted whether or not you can understand them, the nature of God is beyond human reason God cannot explain to us how he has no beginning and no end he always was and is, no one can fully explain or understand this yet when it comes to the Trinity which is the nature of God Jehovah's Witnesses say it cant be true because its not fully comprehensible
There are unintelligible things in creation that go beyond human understanding like the behavior of the electron, when sent through two slots behaves like wave, if observed going through the slots behaves as particle, the best attempt to explain this is what is called the uncertainty principle, there are things in creation that cannot be understood so why would we be able to fully understand the creator?
If God is not three persons united by and sharing the same nature-deity than why when God is alone does he speak pluraly to someone who is equal in nature with him. For instance Genesis (1:26) Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. Or Genesis (11:7) Come, let us go down and confuse their
language. Again Isaiah (6:8) "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
God's nature is revealed as eternal in the past, present and future but not explained, in reality it can't be to us. God's nature is also revealed as three persons but not explained, again it really can't be to us. Why is it so hard to accept the Triunity of God but not his eternity, they are both equally beyond us yet revealed to us.
I know that Jehovah's Witnesses like to ask the question "Who was in control of the universe when Jesus died if he was God?" It sounds like it conquers Jesus being God because if he was God and he was dead than the Universe wouldn't have been in control, it's very easy to answer though. Jesus is God and died on Calvary, the Father and the Holy Spirit are also God and they were alive and well and in control, God was still in control of the universe when Jesus/God died on Calvary's tree.
John (20:28,29) Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me,have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." A first century Jew would not blaspheme in amazement and if he did Jesus being a Rabbi had the duty to rebuke him for it, Jesus did not rebuke him, in fact he confirmed him, he was and is his Lord and God. I'm sorry but trying to convince people that Thomas blasphemed before a Rabbi doesn't fly, 1st century Jews wouldn't!
Tell me about it. I don't understand how scripture isn't clear that Jesus is God. I guess he didn't see in Matthew 4:10 where it says Only shoult thou serve. Also where Jesus said Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God. Then Jesus goes and recieves worship. I mean there is only one Saviour and One God. Jesus is the Saviour. Jesus is God. Unless you're a polytheist and don't believe scripture like John 10:30 I and my Father are one. He's saying God and I are one. Pretty clear. Epidome pray for him.
Jesus would have reproved Thomas if Jesus had understood that Thomas meant that he, Jesus, was "the only true God" whom Jesus had called "my God" and "my Father." Certainly Jesus would not take a title away from God his Father or take away the unique position from God his Father. Since Jesus did not reprove Thomas as if addressing him in a wrong way, Jesus knew how to understand Thomas words, Scripturally.
And so did the apostle John. John was there and heard Thomas exclaim: "My Lord and my God." Did John say that the only thing for us to conclude from Thomas words was that Jesus was God, "the only true God" whose name is Jehovah? Here would have been an excellent place for John to explain John 1:1 and say that Jesus Christ, who was the Word made flesh, was God himself, that he was "God the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity."
But is that the conclusion that John reached? Is that the conclusion to which John brings his readers? Read the conclusion that John wants us to reach:
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe." That we might believe what?
"That Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD; and that believing ye might have life through his name."—John 20:29-31, In his life account of Jesus John wrote the things to persuade us to believe, not that Jesus is God, that Christ is God, or that Jesus is "God the Son," but that "Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF GOD." The trinitarians designedly twist things by saying "God the Son."
But Johns explanation the way that he words it, namely, "Christ, the Son of God." Thomas was not worshiping "God the Father" and "God the Son" at one and the same time as equals in a "triune God."
Thomas worshiped the same God whom Jesus Christ worshiped, namely, Jehovah God, the Father. So if Thomas addressed Jesus as "my God," Thomas had to recognize Jesus Father as the God of a God, hence as a God higher than Jesus Christ, a God whom Jesus himself worshiped.
Your explanation, assuming Thomas believed Jesus was the same God as the Father, contradicts the bible. Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live"
Thomas, and the apostles did not die when they saw Jesus face to face. And John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time" and still 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time." So this is prove Jesus isnt the same God as the Father. Jesus is his individual deity because of his power and authority, just as the Devil is called "the god of this world" because of his power and authority in this world.
This not speaking of Jesus in human form but of God pre-incarnate. The Father and the Holy Spirit were still not viewable to humans, though there were manifestations before men that were not enough to kill them, The Holy Spirit at Jesus baptism. Exodus (33:11) God spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to a friend.Exodus (13:21) By day Jehovah went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light
Although I dont agree with your interpretation regarding Exodus 33:11 the fact still remains in John 20:28 Jesus isnt the same God as the Father because your interpretation still doesnt answer John 1:18 or 1 John 4:12 "NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD". It doesnt say the Father or the Spirit it says GOD.
No it doesn't because the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, all equal in nature but not position. Look at Acts (28:25) It says that the Holy Spirit spoke yet it is repeating Isaiah (28:8-10) This says God was speaking.Romans (10:9) repeats Joel (2:321) this says everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. Paul in Romans (10:9) applies salvation coming by calling on the name of Jesus, its the same thing repeated but applied to Jesus name instead of Jehovah
There is no getting around this scripture, Thomas called Jesus his Lord and God, that was either true or he blasphemed. Jewish law did not beat around the bush on this, Thomas outright called Jesus his God there is only one way to take this not two, Jesus as a Rabbi did not Rebuke Thomas. You can deny all you want what this statement says but you can't disprove it with scripture and if you go to the Greek it will only say that Thomas called Jesus his Lord and God.
wooddell89 Youre correct I dont understand YOUR trinity Yeshua because YOUR Yeshua doesnt exist, like the Mormons or Islams Yeshua. I do understand , however, Yahwehs son Yeshua and how he is Gods firstborn of all creation, now thats biblical teaching not man made doctrine.
Yahwehthetrue1God. If you Honeslty deep down believe that the New Testament doesn't teach Jesus is God I feel for you. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10 Jesus even said that you should only worship God then received Worship. He is Emmanuel which means God with us. John 8:24 24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. I really hope that you come to know Yeshua as God.
wooddell89 Matthew 4:10 I agree, but was Jesus telling Satan to worship him or was he telling Satan to worship Jehovah? Answer: Jehovah because Jesus said "IT IS WRITTEN" It is Jehovah your God you must worship.
You said "He is Emmanuel which means God with us" Absolutely because God sent his Son as a representative thats how God was with man kind hence read John 3:16 God sent his son, he did come down himself.
John 8:24 I agree with this scripture but whats the point? Answer John 20:31 "But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name." Was this saying Jesus is God or the Son of God? If your honest with yourself youll see Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.
I hope you come to know Yeshua and recognize who he is as he asked Simon Peter at Matth 16:15, 16 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Did Peter believe he was God or the Son God? Can you answer that question honestly?
I hope You come to the conclusion as Peter did, who knew Jesus personally, and he recognized Jesus as the Son of God, not God the son. So Im not sure why you keep on insisting Jesus is God when he never claimed to be equal with God but said THE FATHER IS GREATER.
But Jesus did claim to be God in John (8:58) I AM = ego eime Exodus (3:14) I AM = ego eime. Jesus clearly claimed to be the I AM, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Here is where the NWT makes changes to support it's doctrines that are not true, John (8:59) they picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God, not a god under their law it wasn't for claiming to be a god but God. ego eime cannot be translated I was only I am. Funny the unbias translation of the WT.
Really? Then why does the NWT change John (8:58) ego eime to I was when it can only be I AM? Why does the NWT change John (10:33) for claiming to be a god when under Jewish law it wasn't for claiming to be a god but for claiming to be God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? Pretty altered Scripture to fit doctrine for not being man made. The fact is Jesus claimed to be the ego eime "I AM" of Exodus (3:14) ego eime "I AM." The WTBTS knows this but will not correct it.
If Jesus is a spiritual creature recreated after death what do you do withLuke(24:36-43)But because they were terrified,and had become frightened,they were imagining they beheld a spirit.So he said to them:"Why are you troubled,and why is it doubts come up in your hearts?See my hands and my feet,that it is I myself:Feel me and see,because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have."And they handed him a piece of broiled fish:and he took it and ate it before their eyes.
Look...You guys say he was resurected in a superpowerful glorified bionic physical body....we say he was resurrected a spiritual body being capable of physical manifestation.
What you guys are teaching isn't resurrection at all it's recreation which there is no scriptural backing for. Resurrection - A rising from the dead; revival. Recreation is not a revival or a rising from the dead it is to be destroyed completely or annihilated and then remade.
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
I do not argue with people about Christ resurrected body. You say it was a super duper powerful fleshly body without blood capable of supernatural things...We say it was a spiritual body capable of physical manifestation. Not much to argue here. God gives one a body that suits Him and that being's environment.
Thank you for that very full explanation, you have quoted contraversial people like John Calvin, the problem with this is that it stands on the premise that Jesus is a created being which orthodox Christianity doesn't and never has taught. Hebrews(1:5)For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your father"? Or "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
Are you serious? 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Jesus came from everlasting according to Old Testament scripture.
Micah 5:2 2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The Hebrew word here rendered "everlasting," is olám, and simply means an indefinite period of time. It is used at Numbers 25:13 to apply to the Levitical priesthood, which did last for an indefinite period of time, coming to its end more than 1900 years ago. Other translations of Micah 5:2 therefore read: "Whose origin is from of old, from ancient days." (RS)
This fits perfectly with Colosians 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of creation, and was with the Father "from ancient days" because Jehovah created Jesus before everything and anything.
Epidome You said"the Aaronic priesthood is continued forever by Jesus Christ".Is it the Aaronic priesthood or is it the priest of Melchizedek?According to Heb 5:6 "Thou art a priest for ever AFTER THE ORDER of Melchizedek."
The Aaronic priesthood wasnt thought of during the time of Melchizedek so he wasnt frm the Aaron priesthood line. We both know the bible is correct so you must be the one "not quite correct". For Christians the "Aaronic priesthood" has ended and Jesus is now priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek
Your right I forgot about that, I wasn't thinking. I know that, it just slipped my mind, I have a lot that I am focused on in school right now, that's not an excuse though, I should not have forgotten that.
Well who is the only one allowed to be worshiped in the Bible, not Angels Revelation (19:10) the angel stopped John from worshiping him, the angel tells him to worship God!
no faithful angle is ever instructed to worship God because they already know that God is the deserving one to be worshipped. Yet,we are told that God INSTRUCTED the Angles to proskyneo Jesus.Whether you want to translate that as prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to,adore)or worship.—Strong's Dictionary,the fact remains GOD is instructing us to proskyneo Jesus. This is a weak point to try to proof Jesus is God because God is instructing the Angels to worship God?That doesnt make sense.
epidome Im not sure what this scripture you quoted has to do with worship?? The key point is God is instructing his worshipers to proskyneo his firstborn son. Is it for Jesus own glory? NO Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. When we bow down to Jesus its for Jehovahs Glory not Jesus glory
epidome is Jehovah a Polytheist calling Moses a god to Pharaoh in Exodus 7:1? "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Is Jehovah calling Moses a false god or a true god since according to your theology its only limited to these 2 categories or interpretation?
Instead of defending your position you just remove peoples comments. Why?
God is saying that Moses will be in position of God and Aaron will be as his prophet, Moses would not be God or a god he was positioned in a divine position relating to Aaron and Pharoah. I am sorry if your comment isn't showing up but I haven't removed one, I would never do that, its not fair and it doesn't involve viewing both sides equally to come unbiasly to the truth.
Epidome I agree what you just said. But thats how Jesus is Mighty God he is in a "positioned in a divine position " representing his God and Father Jehovah.
John(8:58) which the WTBTS claims is the indefinite article which there is no indefinite article in the greek and I errored in this video on applying that to John (1:1). John(10:30) the Jews were preparing to stone Jesus for claiming to be God not a god. The jews wouldn't have tried to stone someone for claiming to be a god, under their laws it was for claiming to be God. John (20:28) A first century jew wouldn't blaspheme in being startled, and Jesus being a Rabbi would have rebuked him for it.
The Jews might have thought he was claiming to be God but Jesus went on correcting them saying "You blaspheme, because I said, I am Gods Son?" John 10:36. Jesus never claimed to be God, but the son of God.
Come on now. Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. He's called Mighty who? GOD
Oh and I know you're gonna say mighty God night Almight but here's the problem in Isaiah 10:21 Jehovah is called Mighty God as well by the same prophet in the same book. Amazing.
wooddell89 God is only a title. God calls Moses "god" and the bible says that Satan is "god" too because of the power he has over this world. Of course Jesus can be called Mighty God because ALL AUTHORITY was given to him. Yet, we find 1 Corinthians 11:3 "the head of Chris is God". Who is the head of Christ? God . John 17:3 who is Jesus calling "the true God?" The Father. Now thats what I think is Amazing.
Come one now. The word can also mean everlasting. Don't believe me look it up. Also John 14:9-10 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
So if you've seen Jesus you've seen the Father. The Father is God right? Also Jesus is one with the Father. Is the Father God? Clearly you see he is God and the Son of God. Jesus was also called the Son of Man. Was Jesus a man? Absolutely. Is he God and the creator of everything? Absolutely. He's the Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. Also Jesus is My Lord and My God John 20:28. Is he your Lord and your God?
I really hope Jesus Christ is your Lord and God. Jesus is so special and he is Immanuel "God with us". What a special God to humble himself and die for us. It is absolutely amazing. Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and he is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
You seem to contradict yourself because you agree that Jesus is the son of God then you change your mind saying he is God, do you notice you cant find the wording God the son in the bible in that order? Its always God the Father.
Jesus is never called the Alpha and Omega that applies to Jehovah, and Jesus is the first and the last, but not the same sense as Jehovah. Jesus is the firstborn to be resurrected from the dead and the last because his God gave him the authority to resurrect the dead.
Others who follow in that resurrection will be raised by God through Christ. (John 6:40; 1 Cor. 6:14) Christ was the firstfruits of those asleep in death. (1 Cor. 15:20) When "First and Last" is again applied to Christ Jesus, at Revelation 2:8, note that again it is with respect to death and resurrection. But when it speaks of Jehovah there no limitation is set on the meaning.
You asked "Is he your Lord and your God?" Absolutely because his God and Father has given him that position. Is it for Jesus own glory? NO Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. When we bow down to Jesus its for Jehovahs Glory not Jesus glory.
Jesus himself said "my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me" John 8:54; how can Gods glory mean nothing? Jesus is Kings of Kings and Lords of Lords because his God gave him that position Acts 2:37 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.". God made Jesus Lord, obviously the one who is given him the title Lord is over Jesus.
You must not understand Yeshua. He has many titles. I was making the point simply is Jesus called the Son of Man? Yes he is. Was Jesus a Man? Absolutely. Was Jesus called the Son of God? Yes. Is he God? Yes. Your arguments are not good. The New Testament and the Old say Yeshua is God. John 1:1 14-8; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8. For crying out loud God the Father called God the Son God. I realize if you're a Jehovah's Witness you say Jesus is a god. However, that is ridiculious.
wooddell89 you said "Your arguments are not good" yet you couldnt refute any of them. Jehovah did call Jesus God true, but he called Moses and Judges Gods too so what is your point? Jehovah never called Jesus "my God" like Jesus always calls Jehovah "my God and Father". I already explained God is only a title. You may believe a god is ridiculious, but it makes more sense then a false Trinity.
A false trinity that YOU nor ANY OTHER so called Christian can explain because its too much of a mystery to man kind, but the reality is the Bible doesnt teach the Trinity
Yes, thank you wooddell89, it is my effort to make the true Jesus known, there are many different ones being preached but there is only one true Chirst. There are many ways of denying Jesus as God and as I defend the truth I am growing and stretching in understanding the teachings that others have been given in denying his deity and how to properly show his deity in leading others through these teachings to the truth of him. It is mind expanding and love inspiring to know that God became a man.
wooddell89 I relies the Hebrew word olám can mean everlasting, but it doesnt apply to Jesus as being eternal because we are told that Jesus is created "the firstborn of all creation", so it simply means an indefinite period of time. Im not sure how Jesus saying "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" proves Jesus is God.
I know you dont think Jesus was telling his disciples if they saw his physical features they were seeing the Fathers features because God is a spirit. So what did he mean? The request, "Lord, show us the Father," suggests that Philip wanted Jesus to provide for his disciples a visible manifestation of God, such as was granted in visions to Moses, Elijah and Isaiah in ancient times. (Ex. 24:10; 1 Ki. 19:9-13; Isa. 6:1-5)
However, in such visions Gods servants saw, not God himself, but symbolic representations of him. (Ex. 33:17-22; John 1:18) Jesus reply indicated that Philip already had something better than visions of that type.
Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, whom only the Son fully knew, seeing Jesus Christ was like seeing God himself.—Matt. 11:27. for people to see the Father (that is, to perceive his personality, will and purpose) were afforded by what Jesus said, both as to content and manner of utterance.
Persons who listened to Jesus learned that God judges people according to their heart condition, rather than by external circumstances, such as wealth, education, ceremonial cleanness or national origin. (Matt. 5:8; 8:11, 12; 23:25-28; John 8:33-44) How different from the viewpoint fostered by the Jewish religious leaders!—Note John 7:48, 49. Jesus never usurped the position of God. He readily admitted that the authority with which he spoke and acted did not originate with him.
It was a delegated authority, for "the Father had given all things into his hands." (John 13:3; compare Matthew 11:27; 28:18; John 3:35; 17:2.) Hence, Jesus declared: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise."—John 5:19; compare John 5:30; 8:28, 42.
In addition Jesus would be contradicting himself if we were to accept your interpretation because a few verses down in verse 28 Jesus says "my Father is greater than I." And previous chapters John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither HEARD HIS VOICE at any time, nor seen HIS SHAPE." And still John 6:46 "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father".
epidome You claim "you must be afraid of trying to defend this teaching" but why did you remove my comment? Are you afraid that you whole video is not logical when compared to scripture?
I didn't remove your comment. what was it? I was refering to Michael being Jesus. I really want to know the scriptures to prove this. I am honestly inquiring not scoffing. Would you tell me?
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Word of God is fully within the capability of human reason, that the Trinity is confusing and that God is not a God of confusion, that the word of God is simple and understandable. If this then is true why would an organization be required to teach it to us, why would it require those to help us properly understand and apply God's principles to our lives. Its a total contradiction.
Funny how many people died following the WTBTS and obeyed the prohibition of organ transplants for the WTBTS to turn around and say that transplants aren't canniblism and now they are saying that accepting blood is up to the Witness after thousands went to their graves refusing them believing that they were obeying God when they were just subject to the whims of men, the governing body.
The truth is JAKEV25 that you don't follow God, you follow the governing body and their word. If you don't live by every word that proceeds from the WTBTS than why do abstain from blood transfusions and why would you accept them if they said it was okay. There are sites on the internet by Jehovah's Witnesses that accept blood transfusions and their reasons why. If you look at what the WTBTS has published most recently on blood you will see that they are leaving the decision up to you now.
JAKEV25, If you believe 2 Timothy (3:16) then why don't you try studying the Bible without the Watchtower articles, see what the Word of God by itself speaks to you and then judge whether or not orthodox Christianity is true or false. Are you afraid to trust God at his word, what do you have to fear if 2 Timothy (3:16) is true and you believe it?
JAKEV25, can you explain Parousia to me according to the WTBTS occuring invisibly in 1914 against Matthew (24:23-27) and Matthew (24:30) and what about the generation of 1914 not passing away before the end of the world.
Amen brother. Praise the Lord. It is so clear! Jesus is worshipped all throughout scripture! So why won't they worship Jesus? Jesus is God and that's it. It goes against scripture if he was a god. Jesus is God! I mean it even says all things were created by Jesus!
Thank you very much wooddell89, its hard to defend the deity of Christ because anti Trinitarians have spent many years creating scriptural prexels to line it up with their heretical doctrines. Its fact that Judaism and Christianity are Monotheistic not Polytheistic. The WTBTS has even created their own translation in which they have changed many of the scriptures in the new testament dealing with the deity of Christ.
Because angels are also called gods in the Bible and and so are demons, also humans but Jehovah is above all of them. That is does not mean that there are other gods in power to be believed in, Jehovah is peerless. everything other than God himself was created. God made everything and he is the only one to be worshiped not the creation.
Epidome is Jehovah a Polytheist calling Moses a god to Pharaoh in Exodus 7:1? "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Is Jehovah calling Moses a false god or a true god since according to your theology its limited to these 2 categories?
Well let's see if Jesus believed in more than one god. I wonder if he was a polytheist? Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods' John 10
Wasn't Moses called a god?
I think Jesus said this at John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
Here Jesus clearly excludes himself from the One true God Jehovah.
This is a clear example of the Bible applying the word gods figuratively, humans are not gods in the manner spoken of in Isaiah (43:10). That statement by Jesus calling Jehovah the one true God does not exclude Jesus from being God as well.
epidome...
You logic is seriously twisted.
Babylonian Trinity: Babylonians polytheistic.
Inian Trinity: Indians polytheistic.
Egyptinan Trinity: Egyptians polytheistic.
Greek Trinity: Greeks Polytheistic
Roman Catholic Trinity: Polytheistic
Other Trinities? Polytheistic!!!
No definite article in Greek? Are you blind? It is used constantly all over the place when translating into English and other tongues.
Please explain Acts 12:22. Here every English translation uses "a god" correctly.
customanalogue 1 year ago
@customanalogue, I would encourage you to view my video on the Royal Us. There is no semetic language that uses a plural relating to and individual B.C. Numerous times God is self identified as plural throughout the old testament, there is no getting around this also in the new testament Jesus charged to baptize in the name "singular" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, here we find the plural expressed in a singular name again revealing God's nature to be plural while being one God!
epidome 1 year ago
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Ever notice that Only the Father is referred to as "God the" like "God the father". nowhere does it say God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit
.And what is the Holy Spirits name? Father = Jehovah Son = Jesus Christ Holy Spirit = ???
Also Jesus said many times he Loves the Father, And The Father says he Loves the Son.
Can anyone show us where it is ever stated That the Holy Spirit Loves the Son or the Father?
Do they not love the HS? or does it love the other two?
pcbarter 1 year ago
the wts believe in a different Jesus,they DON`T believe in Jesus of Nazereth.jw`s will refuse to say that they believe in Jesus o Nazereth,they say they believe in the Jesus of the bible bt there r 5 ppl who share the name Jesus in the bible and anyone who does`nt believe in Jesus of Nazereth believes in a false Jesus and there4 is still in his/her sin.
arnie365 2 years ago
"Thou shalt have no OTHER GODS before me." Seems to me that that means there are other gods. In old clay tablets, your mighty Yahweh is called the cup bearer of El, King of the Canaanite gods, so it seems Monotheism has just been proven to be a bunch of BULLSHIT.
HoundofOdin 2 years ago
Walking; King James Version is quite good.
Keep the commandments of God, not in your own strength but in Christs strength, for that is the whole duty of man. Happy Sabbath :)
Mekelsior 2 years ago
WalkingThroughOut, In Colossians (1:16,17) the word other has been added 4 times against the Greek in the NWT. This is a major alteration of Scripture made in it to deny the deity of Christ. I did a survey of the word rock through the NWT and was amazed at what lengths the translation committee went to to try to change it in passages to try to make it seem that the inspired word didn't apply it the same throughout Scripture, in fact in 1 Corinthians (10:3,4) they change the word to rock-mass.
epidome 2 years ago
WalkingThroughOut, I don't use just one translation but I think that the use of more than one can give one a better perspective especially since there are modern translations.There are extremely valuable books that show clearly what the Greek is and how it translates into English so you don't have to be a Greek scholar to know the original Greek and its translation into English.This is important since Scripture can be aligned to fit false ideologies.Even on a small scale this is very rewarding.
epidome 2 years ago
You should read chapter 53 and 54 and I think it was also verse 5 in chapter 55 of Isaiyah in the NWT, is will blow you away. The translators managed to demonstrate that Jesus is God, even thought they did not intend it. :)
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Epidome, Hi - response to your comment, of course Almighty God (Jehovah) is one and he created Michael (Jesus)(he first begotten Son, not a God) and thru him all things happened. The Rock of Israel is Jesus - created by Jehovah. It was Jesus that was the rock of the church not Peter. God (Jehovah) is not more than one person I agree- Luke 4:8 All things come thru the Son (not a God, not Jehovah) read Acts 4:12.
refimanloans 2 years ago
refimanloans, Jesus can't only be the rock. Both the Father and the Son are the rock and only God is the rock. Deuteronomy (32:4) The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he. Psalms (92:15) To tell that Jehovah is upright. [He is] my Rock, in whom there is no unrighteousness. Even the NWT makes it very clear that Jehovah is the Rock and that Jesus is the Rock. There is no way around it.
epidome 2 years ago
refimanloans, all that I am using is Scripture, the Bible alone at face value but you will not. As long as you depend on Watchtower literature to view scripture through you will deny even what the Bible clearly says. On the subject of the rock the Bible clearly calls the Father and the Son the rock but because you won't let the Bible speak for itself you will deny regardless because your commitment is to the organization and what they say not God and what he says. You don't need the WTBTS.
epidome 2 years ago
Isaiah(44:8)Do not be in dread, YOU people, and do not become stupefied.Have I not from that time on caused you individually to hear and told [it] out?And YOU are my witnesses. Does there exist a God besides me?No, there is no Rock.I have recognized none.Here God makes clear there is no other God but him and that he is the only rock yet Jesus is the rock.1Corinthians(10:3,4) and 1Corinthians(3:11).In 2Samuel(23:3)God says that the Rock spoke to him, God is the Rock, God is more than one person.
epidome 3 years ago
JW'S do not call Jesus a God - so all this doesn't make sense to me. JW'S believe God created Jesus as the first begotten Son but never will the JW'S claim that Jesus (who was sent by the active force (Holy Spirit) into the womb of Mary to take away the sins of the world, to pay the ransom and to usher in the new age of Jesus being the Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. Read Matthew 4:10 - "It is Jehovah your God you must worship.
refimanloans 3 years ago
Hey great to see you on here! i was just browsing and came across your vids.They are awesome and so much truth and i really enjoyed them.Thanks for sharing them with us :) A day spent without learning something is a day wasted.
ambermusk 3 years ago
If the Trinity isn't what the Bible alone teaches than why has the WTBTS altered scriptures to deny it? Clo (1:16,17) the word other is inserted twice and again without brackets in Phil (2:9).The two reasons that the NWT committee cited for using brackets don't apply in Col (1:16:17) and by not placing brackets around the word other in Phi (2:9) they violate their own guidelines for using them. What it really is, is a deception to fit the WTBTS's doctrine that is not from the Bible but from men.
epidome 3 years ago
The doctrine of the Trinity originated with the first century Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses haven't even existed except just over a hundred years and has changed its name many times, claimed that their books and magazines are authored by God who doesn't change yet their literature and doctrines have time and time again, false predictions about the end of the world, medical prohibitions commanded then recinded.If the governing body is God's channel of communication than why are they wrong often
epidome 3 years ago
Acts (28:25) They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
epidome 3 years ago
When the Holy Spirit spoke God spoke
Acts (28:26,27) 'Go to this people and say,"You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." For this people's heart has become colloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.
epidome 3 years ago
Isaiah (6:9,10) Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" He said, "Go and tell this people:Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
epidome 3 years ago
Sorry. Bad word usage. If Jesus is God then that contradicts the Bibical Scriptures "which" are Word of God.
DragonballFO 3 years ago
DBF: In what way does the word, "Word of God" contradict the deity of Christ? The Bible is the written Word, that is God in written form, the Bible is alive right? The Living Word of God.
Why do you JW want to limit God so much that you can "understand" Him? You say that He is not Omniscient, that He can "Choose" to close His eyes? Why is it "impossible" for God to become Flesh? Why is it "impossible" for God to create the world in six days? Im curious if you have ever thought of this.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
You quote this, "If God is not Triune than how do you explain Genexsis (1:26) Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. Genesis (11:7) Come, let us go down and confuse their language. And Isaiah (6:8) "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
DragonballFO 3 years ago
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" That scripture says "I" in the first sentence. That shows us that God is the only one true God. As for second sentence, Jesus is Son of God, therefore Jesus works with his Father. Another example is that Jesus tended to refer to himself as "Son of man" more often than "Son of God" to avoid the confusion about him being God. How can Jesus be God and Son OF God at the same time anyway?
DragonballFO 3 years ago
Our doctrine is from the Bible. If Jesus is God then that contradicts the Bibical Scriptures whose are Word of God. If Jehovah wanted to, He could have told someone to write down the scroll saying that "my firstborn son is God." If Jesus is truly God, he would have said so. So what you tried to prove is all misinterpretation. There is no evidence in Scriptures regarding Trinity. It is just as Yahwehthetrue1God said, there is no proof that Jesus is actually God the Son. Rather he is Son OF God.
DragonballFO 3 years ago
DBF: Let me ask you a few questions. First I disagree with you on the divinity of Christ, and even if you claim that it is from the Bible, it may not neccesarily be the truth. You and me we read the Bible differently, obviously. But let me ask you this, do you truly want to find out the truth about God, or do you believe you already have the truth about God? Do you believe it is theoreticly possible for God to become human? and the last question. Who is the Truth the Watchtower or Christ?
Mekelsior 3 years ago
DFB: But Jesus is the one that sent all the prophets of Israel. He says so Himself if my memory doesnt fail me. How do you explain that? (Ill find you the reference later)
No one can answer how Jesus can be both Man and God the Son at the same time. And to be honest, it is the wrong question to ask. You cannot use reason and logic when it comes to this, for you and me we have limited knowledge of the spiritual. God is God, and let God be God.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
Regarding John 8 Setting the context of the passage we find that Jesus speaks of Abraham and states, "Abraham your father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced." How would Jesus know that Abraham saw it and rejoiced? Jesus was not even 50 years old, so they ask, "you have seen Abraham?" (Joh. 8:57)
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Jesus response to them then relates to how he saw Abraham. One might respond by noting that if Jesus were claiming to be God it would only have been natural and implied that he had seen Abraham. Nevertheless, a claim to be God through the words "I am" would make this sentence nothing more than nonsense, as a simple substitution of any other title or name. Looking to the grammar of the text, we find it clearly involving his existence.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
How then should we translate John 8:58? I am in Johns Gospel": "The verb 'to be' is used differently, in what is presumably its basic meaning of 'be in existence', in John 8:58: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi, which would be most naturally translated 'I have been in existence since before Abraham was born', if it were not for the obsession with the simple words 'I am'.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
If we take the Greek words in their natural meaning, as we surely should, the claim to have been in existence for so long is in itself a staggering one, quite enough to provoke the crowd's violent reaction."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Now the Septuagint was the translation done for the benefit of the increasing number of Greek-speaking Jews a couple of centuries earlier, so naturally it is the version of the Old Testament that is normally referred to in the New Testament, and certainly the one most likely to be known to the early readers of John's Gospel.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Its translation of Exodus 3:14 follows the sense (as understood by the Jewish translators) rather than the exact form of the Hebrew: E·go´ ei·mi ho on which translates into English literally as 'I am the being one',' and 'the being one has sent me'. Now the words E·go´ ei·mi they do not echo the words of Exodus 3:14 in the normally quoted Greek version.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
If Jesus would have said he is E·go´ ei·mi ho on instead of JUST E·go´ ei·mi then JWs might have problem, but he didnt NWT translates John 8:58 accurately.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
If we were to conclude E·go´ ei·mi was being used as Gods name then you would have a problem with John 9:9 where Jesus healed the blind man and this verse says "Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (E·go´ ei·mi) he the same EXACT E·go´ ei·mi used by Jesus in John 8:58. And there are many other scriptures where people use the same wording, but no one says that they try claim to be God.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
The NWT also wrongly translates John 8:58- Their strange rendering for this verse is:Jesus said to them: "most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."The Greekword-for-word rendering states I am instead of I have been. Furthermore, the Greek words from which this translation comes is supposed to be:properly rendered in the perfect tense.
epidome 3 years ago
John 8:58 is accurately translated Before Abraham, I am. But whats the point? Were the Jews asking for his identity or his age/existence? If Jesus gave them his identify he wouldnt be answering there questions. Before Abraham came into existence, I have been make is answering Jews question.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Sir: Jesus christ revealed Himself, who He was in John 8:58. By using the exact words that YHWH used at the burning bush, "Ego Eimi" altho in greek. It is the title of God, that He applied to Himself. Further, in luke 4:8, the devil asks Christ to do obeisance before him, and Christ says, only to God shall you do obeisance. So the question is in Heb 1:6, God, the Father, tells everyone to do obeisence to Christ. This verse, proves with no doubt that being the Son of God means they are EQUAL.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
Mekelsior I see you made a comment to me but you didnt answer the question in my comment. Were the Jews asking for his identity or his age/existence? If Jesus gave them his identify he wouldnt be answering there questions. Before Abraham came into existence, I have been is answering the Jews question. Meaning he existed before Abraham.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Sir: Jesus did answer the question that they really wanted to know. If you look closely at the story the discussion is on the identity of Christ. He claimed that He was the Son of God, the Messiah. To further state that "I AM" to use the name of God, the one YHWH uttered at the burning bush, was the only answer Christ could have given.
Many times aswell, Christ seemingly does not answer the questions of those that ask. Such as Nicodemus and the lady at the well.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
Mekelsior I agree with you that Jesus did answer their question, and their question was regarding age/existence, not identity. vs 57 You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus didnt say before Abraham was Im God or YHWH. He said before Abraham was I am. I am what??? Existed before Abraham. If we were to interpret it your way Jesus wouldnt be answering the Pharisees question like he has been through out the context.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Further more, to prove Jesus wasnt claiming to be God he consistently said he wasnt seeking his glory vs 50 through the context his glory and honor is nothing vs 54. How can Gods glory be nothing??? Suppose the Almighty God was in the flesh how can his glory be nothing? Your interpretation just doesnt work!!!
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Sir: True, Jesus Christ didnt claim to be God, infact it took quite some time before the diciples of Christ even dared to answer the question of Christ, "Who do you think I am?" Peter boldly proclaimed, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." The question is now, what does it mean to be the Messiah? It means, the Annointed one. Who is the Annointed one? The Bible is clear, God is the Annointed one.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
Mekelsior Your comment is not correct that "The Bible is clear, God is the Annointed one". The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures uses the same Greek word khri·stos´ more than 40 times, frequently as a title of anointed priests, kings, and prophets. Aaron the high priest was "the anointed one," commissioned and "appointed in behalf of men over the things pertaining to God." (Le 4:3, 5, 16; 8:12; Heb 5:1)
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Expressing his judgment on the house of Eli, Jehovah promised to raise up a faithful priest who would walk before Gods anointed one (khri·stos´) for all time.—1Sa 2:35. So if we were to conclude with your reasoning then ALL the anointed priests, kings, and prophets are God since they are anointed?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
In addition, God isnt the anointed one but does the anointing. Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Who made Jesus the Christ? Answer God. It doesnt say God anointed himself but did the anointing, he anointed his Son that is clear in the bible.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
God making Christ anything does not deny Jesus being God because God is not one person. Jesus could sit at the right hand of the Almighty and still be Almighty God since God is three persons, whatever goes on between the Son and the Father does not stop one of them from being God. JESUS IS GOD OUR SAVIOR - Titus (1:3) and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
epidome 3 years ago
One doesn't equal three - if I had my son and my brother on each side of me and all of us were sitting in a chair would be be one? Of course not.
refimanloans 3 years ago
refimanloans, if you have one stool with three legs each leg is separate from the other though they are each a part of one thing, a stool. The eternal divine nature of God is what makes the three persons one though they are individual they are one in nature and cause, they are parts of one thing that being divine nature.
epidome 3 years ago
refimanloans, If God is not more than one person how do you explain Isaiah(44:8)God makes clear here that there are no other gods and that he is the only rock yet in 2Samuel(23:3)God says that the rock spoke to him. God makes clear that he is the only rock and scripture time and time again proclaims that God is the Rock of Israel yet God says that the Rock spoke to him and 1Corinthians(10:3,4)says Jesus is the rock also 1Corinthians(3:11)says that Jesus is the stone/foundation of Christianity!
epidome 2 years ago
I believe that in answering "I am" He gave them both His "age" and identity. If they wanted His age, He couldn't answer in "years" or whatever. He let them know that He was eternal...at the same time it clarified His identity. That's why they tried to stone Him...for blasphemy. They knew exactly what He was claiming - to be the "I am" of the Hebrew scriptures.
truthseekno9 3 years ago
Not enough to stone him to death...that was done for the crime of blasphemy.
truthseekno9 3 years ago
There are so many problems with your conclusions it was hard for me to know where to begin. The I AM theory isnt even agreed among Trinitarians and there are good reasons for this. The word translated "I am" is the Hebrew verb ehyeh.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
This verb is an imperfect and can technically be translated in one of a few different ways. While the most common translation within Exodus 3:14 is "I am," one cannot help but notice that this rendering is somewhat out of place. Examining the context of Exodus 3:14, we look back to verse 12 where God explains to Moses, "I will be with you." Here the words "I will be" are translated from the very same Hebrew word, ehyeh.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Indeed, ehyeh is often translated "I will be" within scripture. Examples of this include Jos. 1:5, Jdg. 6:16, 1Sam. 23:17, 2Sam. 7:14, 15:34, 16:18, 1Chr. 17:13, Isa. 47:7 and Jer. 11:4. Which rendering is correct and what is the meaning of Exodus 3:14? Consider what the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) states on this issue:
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
"This has been supposed to mean 'self-existence,' and to represent God as the Absolute. Such an idea, however, would be a metaphysical abstraction, not only impossible to the time at which the name originated, but alien to the Heb[rew] mind at any time. And the imperfect 'ehyeh is more accurately tr[anslated] 'I will be what I will be,' a Sem[etic] idiom meaning,
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
'I will be all that is necessary as the occasion will arise... The optional reading in the ARV margin is much to be preferred: I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE, indicating His covenant pledge to be with and for Israel in all the ages to follow.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
This understanding is attested to not only by Christian sources such as the ISBE, but Jewish alike. For example, Rabbi Jordan Cohen explains: "Moses perceived that the people would want to know which attribute of God they can expect to encounter; that is, what their experience of God will be, and what is going to happen to them. God's answer, then, leaves things open-ended.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh is based on the future tense conjugation of the Hebrew verb meaning to be. Often translated as I Am Who I Am, the phrase is more accurately translated as I Will Be That Which I Will Be. The people will come to know God through their unfolding experiences together
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
It's worthless to explain it to him because I have tried to convience him that Jesus isn't God. Jesus has emphasised MANY MANY times in Gospels that Jesus isn't God. He only refered to himself as Son of God as well as Son of man.
DragonballFO 3 years ago
DBF: Read the gospel of John, and pay close attention to chapter 1 and 14, then do a verse for verse study in Revelation, try and find Jesus in every verse. Also study this without the aid of watchtower publications, and pray exceedingly to God that He would reveal to you the true identity of Jesus Christ. But you must truly want to know the truth, and not believe that you have it, for who knows, maybe you have been decieved by men with good intentions.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
I've always known the truth for nearly a year. You want me to believe that jesus is God which didn't reveal in the Bible? It is you who need to study the verse, not me. Jesus mentioned many, many times that he isn't God. Oh I remember the scripture that matches how you are blinded from the truth. Satan has always been transforming into an angel of light. Know that scripture? Have a nice day. Good job attempting this one.
DragonballFO 3 years ago
DBF: I understand why you believe what you believe. Im sorry that you do not wish to proceed with understanding the truth. You should become more critical and not accept everything that men are producing. Ask yourself, why should you listen to the men in brooklyn over the Word of God, in prayer and the direction of His Holy Spirit? I know it is an appeal to your emotions, but also to your logic and reasoning, God gave you a brain so think criticaly, test all things. Never stop seeking God.
Mekelsior 3 years ago
Mekelsior, I thank for your passion and willingness to put forth so much effort to those who appose belief in the nature of Christ according to what is revealed in scripture. This isn't a small issue for it determines salvation, I hope the people on here know that this is being done out of love for them and that they are not our enemies. Jehovah's Witnesses are devout, dedicated to the bone, there is much to admire about them. It is the WTBTS that are wolves, its their lies were trying to expose
epidome 3 years ago
Your suggestion is a better translation than the New World Translation "I will prove to be".
truthseekno9 3 years ago
You claim the NWT is bias but the honest truth is ALL English bibles are bias. Can you tell me an English bible that isnt bias? Here are many bibles that translate John 8:58 the same way has the NWT and the thing is some of these translators are Trinitarians. The I AM theory isnt even a good areguement in opinion.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
New American Standard Bible (NASB) (margin 1960-1973 editions): Or, "I have been."
The Living New Testament: "The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."
The 20th Century New Testament: "before Abraham existed I was."
The New Testament, An American Translation Goodspeed: "I tell you I existed before Abraham was born."
The Complete Bible, An American Translation Goodspeed: "I tell you I existed before Abraham was born."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
New Believers Bible, New Living Translation: "I existed before Abraham was even born."
The New Testament, C. B. Williams: "I solemnly say to you, I existed before Abraham was born."
The Book, New Testament: The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
The Living Bible: "I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."
The Four Gospels, Lattimore: "Truly, truly I tell you, I am from before Abraham was born."
The New Testament, From the Peshitta Text, Lamsa: "Before Abraham was born, I was."
An American Translation, In The Language of Today, Beck: "I was before Abraham."
New Testament Contemporary English Version: "I tell you.that even before Abraham was, I was, and I am."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
The Living Scriptures (Messianic Version): "I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."
The Unvarnished New Testament: "Before Abraham was born, I have already been."
The New Testament, Klist & Lilly: "I am here-and I was before Abraham."
The New Testament in the Language of the People, Williams: "I existed before Abraham was born."
The New Testament, Noyes: "From before Abraham was, I have been."
And there are many many more.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Jehovah's Witnesses, I know that you believe that there are no mysteries in the Bible and that everything is within man's reason or else God would be a God of confusion which he clearly states that he isn't.I challenge and say that not everything in the Bible is withing human grasp and that doesn't make God a God of confusion. God exists from eternity past, he has no beginning, the nature of God is beyond human reason to fully understand the nature of God you would have to be God.
epidome 3 years ago
Not everything in the Bible is explained and those things which are not are often beyond our capabilities to understand somethings just have to be accepted whether or not you can understand them, the nature of God is beyond human reason God cannot explain to us how he has no beginning and no end he always was and is, no one can fully explain or understand this yet when it comes to the Trinity which is the nature of God Jehovah's Witnesses say it cant be true because its not fully comprehensible
epidome 3 years ago
There are unintelligible things in creation that go beyond human understanding like the behavior of the electron, when sent through two slots behaves like wave, if observed going through the slots behaves as particle, the best attempt to explain this is what is called the uncertainty principle, there are things in creation that cannot be understood so why would we be able to fully understand the creator?
epidome 3 years ago
If God is not three persons united by and sharing the same nature-deity than why when God is alone does he speak pluraly to someone who is equal in nature with him. For instance Genesis (1:26) Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. Or Genesis (11:7) Come, let us go down and confuse their
language. Again Isaiah (6:8) "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
epidome 3 years ago
God's nature is revealed as eternal in the past, present and future but not explained, in reality it can't be to us. God's nature is also revealed as three persons but not explained, again it really can't be to us. Why is it so hard to accept the Triunity of God but not his eternity, they are both equally beyond us yet revealed to us.
epidome 3 years ago
I know that Jehovah's Witnesses like to ask the question "Who was in control of the universe when Jesus died if he was God?" It sounds like it conquers Jesus being God because if he was God and he was dead than the Universe wouldn't have been in control, it's very easy to answer though. Jesus is God and died on Calvary, the Father and the Holy Spirit are also God and they were alive and well and in control, God was still in control of the universe when Jesus/God died on Calvary's tree.
epidome 3 years ago
John (20:28,29) Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me,have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." A first century Jew would not blaspheme in amazement and if he did Jesus being a Rabbi had the duty to rebuke him for it, Jesus did not rebuke him, in fact he confirmed him, he was and is his Lord and God. I'm sorry but trying to convince people that Thomas blasphemed before a Rabbi doesn't fly, 1st century Jews wouldn't!
epidome 3 years ago
Tell me about it. I don't understand how scripture isn't clear that Jesus is God. I guess he didn't see in Matthew 4:10 where it says Only shoult thou serve. Also where Jesus said Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God. Then Jesus goes and recieves worship. I mean there is only one Saviour and One God. Jesus is the Saviour. Jesus is God. Unless you're a polytheist and don't believe scripture like John 10:30 I and my Father are one. He's saying God and I are one. Pretty clear. Epidome pray for him.
wooddell89 3 years ago
Jesus would have reproved Thomas if Jesus had understood that Thomas meant that he, Jesus, was "the only true God" whom Jesus had called "my God" and "my Father." Certainly Jesus would not take a title away from God his Father or take away the unique position from God his Father. Since Jesus did not reprove Thomas as if addressing him in a wrong way, Jesus knew how to understand Thomas words, Scripturally.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
And so did the apostle John. John was there and heard Thomas exclaim: "My Lord and my God." Did John say that the only thing for us to conclude from Thomas words was that Jesus was God, "the only true God" whose name is Jehovah? Here would have been an excellent place for John to explain John 1:1 and say that Jesus Christ, who was the Word made flesh, was God himself, that he was "God the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
But is that the conclusion that John reached? Is that the conclusion to which John brings his readers? Read the conclusion that John wants us to reach:
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe." That we might believe what?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
"That Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD; and that believing ye might have life through his name."—John 20:29-31, In his life account of Jesus John wrote the things to persuade us to believe, not that Jesus is God, that Christ is God, or that Jesus is "God the Son," but that "Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF GOD." The trinitarians designedly twist things by saying "God the Son."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
But Johns explanation the way that he words it, namely, "Christ, the Son of God." Thomas was not worshiping "God the Father" and "God the Son" at one and the same time as equals in a "triune God."
Thomas worshiped the same God whom Jesus Christ worshiped, namely, Jehovah God, the Father. So if Thomas addressed Jesus as "my God," Thomas had to recognize Jesus Father as the God of a God, hence as a God higher than Jesus Christ, a God whom Jesus himself worshiped.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Your explanation, assuming Thomas believed Jesus was the same God as the Father, contradicts the bible. Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live"
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Thomas, and the apostles did not die when they saw Jesus face to face. And John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time" and still 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time." So this is prove Jesus isnt the same God as the Father. Jesus is his individual deity because of his power and authority, just as the Devil is called "the god of this world" because of his power and authority in this world.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
This not speaking of Jesus in human form but of God pre-incarnate. The Father and the Holy Spirit were still not viewable to humans, though there were manifestations before men that were not enough to kill them, The Holy Spirit at Jesus baptism. Exodus (33:11) God spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to a friend.Exodus (13:21) By day Jehovah went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light
epidome 3 years ago
Although I dont agree with your interpretation regarding Exodus 33:11 the fact still remains in John 20:28 Jesus isnt the same God as the Father because your interpretation still doesnt answer John 1:18 or 1 John 4:12 "NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD". It doesnt say the Father or the Spirit it says GOD.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
No it doesn't because the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, all equal in nature but not position. Look at Acts (28:25) It says that the Holy Spirit spoke yet it is repeating Isaiah (28:8-10) This says God was speaking.Romans (10:9) repeats Joel (2:321) this says everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. Paul in Romans (10:9) applies salvation coming by calling on the name of Jesus, its the same thing repeated but applied to Jesus name instead of Jehovah
epidome 3 years ago
That's Joel (2:32)
epidome 3 years ago
That's Isaih (6:8-10) sorry, a mistake
epidome 3 years ago
There is no getting around this scripture, Thomas called Jesus his Lord and God, that was either true or he blasphemed. Jewish law did not beat around the bush on this, Thomas outright called Jesus his God there is only one way to take this not two, Jesus as a Rabbi did not Rebuke Thomas. You can deny all you want what this statement says but you can't disprove it with scripture and if you go to the Greek it will only say that Thomas called Jesus his Lord and God.
epidome 3 years ago
wooddell89 Youre correct I dont understand YOUR trinity Yeshua because YOUR Yeshua doesnt exist, like the Mormons or Islams Yeshua. I do understand , however, Yahwehs son Yeshua and how he is Gods firstborn of all creation, now thats biblical teaching not man made doctrine.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Yahwehthetrue1God. If you Honeslty deep down believe that the New Testament doesn't teach Jesus is God I feel for you. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10 Jesus even said that you should only worship God then received Worship. He is Emmanuel which means God with us. John 8:24 24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. I really hope that you come to know Yeshua as God.
wooddell89 3 years ago
wooddell89 Matthew 4:10 I agree, but was Jesus telling Satan to worship him or was he telling Satan to worship Jehovah? Answer: Jehovah because Jesus said "IT IS WRITTEN" It is Jehovah your God you must worship.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
You said "He is Emmanuel which means God with us" Absolutely because God sent his Son as a representative thats how God was with man kind hence read John 3:16 God sent his son, he did come down himself.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
John 8:24 I agree with this scripture but whats the point? Answer John 20:31 "But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name." Was this saying Jesus is God or the Son of God? If your honest with yourself youll see Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
I hope you come to know Yeshua and recognize who he is as he asked Simon Peter at Matth 16:15, 16 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Did Peter believe he was God or the Son God? Can you answer that question honestly?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
I hope You come to the conclusion as Peter did, who knew Jesus personally, and he recognized Jesus as the Son of God, not God the son. So Im not sure why you keep on insisting Jesus is God when he never claimed to be equal with God but said THE FATHER IS GREATER.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
But Jesus did claim to be God in John (8:58) I AM = ego eime Exodus (3:14) I AM = ego eime. Jesus clearly claimed to be the I AM, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Here is where the NWT makes changes to support it's doctrines that are not true, John (8:59) they picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God, not a god under their law it wasn't for claiming to be a god but God. ego eime cannot be translated I was only I am. Funny the unbias translation of the WT.
epidome 3 years ago
Really? Then why does the NWT change John (8:58) ego eime to I was when it can only be I AM? Why does the NWT change John (10:33) for claiming to be a god when under Jewish law it wasn't for claiming to be a god but for claiming to be God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? Pretty altered Scripture to fit doctrine for not being man made. The fact is Jesus claimed to be the ego eime "I AM" of Exodus (3:14) ego eime "I AM." The WTBTS knows this but will not correct it.
epidome 3 years ago
If Jesus is a spiritual creature recreated after death what do you do withLuke(24:36-43)But because they were terrified,and had become frightened,they were imagining they beheld a spirit.So he said to them:"Why are you troubled,and why is it doubts come up in your hearts?See my hands and my feet,that it is I myself:Feel me and see,because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have."And they handed him a piece of broiled fish:and he took it and ate it before their eyes.
epidome 3 years ago
Look...You guys say he was resurected in a superpowerful glorified bionic physical body....we say he was resurrected a spiritual body being capable of physical manifestation.
There is too little room to argue this subject.
JAKEV25 3 years ago
What you guys are teaching isn't resurrection at all it's recreation which there is no scriptural backing for. Resurrection - A rising from the dead; revival. Recreation is not a revival or a rising from the dead it is to be destroyed completely or annihilated and then remade.
epidome 3 years ago
1 Corinth 15
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
I do not argue with people about Christ resurrected body. You say it was a super duper powerful fleshly body without blood capable of supernatural things...We say it was a spiritual body capable of physical manifestation. Not much to argue here. God gives one a body that suits Him and that being's environment.
JAKEV25 3 years ago
Thank you for that very full explanation, you have quoted contraversial people like John Calvin, the problem with this is that it stands on the premise that Jesus is a created being which orthodox Christianity doesn't and never has taught. Hebrews(1:5)For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your father"? Or "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
epidome 3 years ago
And how does this proof Jesus is God?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Jesus is created "Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Are you serious? 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Jesus came from everlasting according to Old Testament scripture.
Micah 5:2 2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
pretty clear Yeshua came from everlasting
wooddell89 3 years ago
The Hebrew word here rendered "everlasting," is olám, and simply means an indefinite period of time. It is used at Numbers 25:13 to apply to the Levitical priesthood, which did last for an indefinite period of time, coming to its end more than 1900 years ago. Other translations of Micah 5:2 therefore read: "Whose origin is from of old, from ancient days." (RS)
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
This fits perfectly with Colosians 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of creation, and was with the Father "from ancient days" because Jehovah created Jesus before everything and anything.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
That's not quite correct, the Aaronic priesthood is continued forever by Jesus Christ.
epidome 3 years ago
Epidome You said"the Aaronic priesthood is continued forever by Jesus Christ".Is it the Aaronic priesthood or is it the priest of Melchizedek?According to Heb 5:6 "Thou art a priest for ever AFTER THE ORDER of Melchizedek."
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
The Aaronic priesthood wasnt thought of during the time of Melchizedek so he wasnt frm the Aaron priesthood line. We both know the bible is correct so you must be the one "not quite correct". For Christians the "Aaronic priesthood" has ended and Jesus is now priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Your right I forgot about that, I wasn't thinking. I know that, it just slipped my mind, I have a lot that I am focused on in school right now, that's not an excuse though, I should not have forgotten that.
epidome 3 years ago
Well who is the only one allowed to be worshiped in the Bible, not Angels Revelation (19:10) the angel stopped John from worshiping him, the angel tells him to worship God!
epidome 3 years ago
no faithful angle is ever instructed to worship God because they already know that God is the deserving one to be worshipped. Yet,we are told that God INSTRUCTED the Angles to proskyneo Jesus.Whether you want to translate that as prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to,adore)or worship.—Strong's Dictionary,the fact remains GOD is instructing us to proskyneo Jesus. This is a weak point to try to proof Jesus is God because God is instructing the Angels to worship God?That doesnt make sense.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
God did not say to an angel "You are my Son; today I have become your father". Angels are not to receive worship only God is.
epidome 3 years ago
epidome Im not sure what this scripture you quoted has to do with worship?? The key point is God is instructing his worshipers to proskyneo his firstborn son. Is it for Jesus own glory? NO Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. When we bow down to Jesus its for Jehovahs Glory not Jesus glory
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
epidome is Jehovah a Polytheist calling Moses a god to Pharaoh in Exodus 7:1? "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Is Jehovah calling Moses a false god or a true god since according to your theology its only limited to these 2 categories or interpretation?
Instead of defending your position you just remove peoples comments. Why?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
God is saying that Moses will be in position of God and Aaron will be as his prophet, Moses would not be God or a god he was positioned in a divine position relating to Aaron and Pharoah. I am sorry if your comment isn't showing up but I haven't removed one, I would never do that, its not fair and it doesn't involve viewing both sides equally to come unbiasly to the truth.
epidome 3 years ago
Epidome I agree what you just said. But thats how Jesus is Mighty God he is in a "positioned in a divine position " representing his God and Father Jehovah.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
John(8:58) which the WTBTS claims is the indefinite article which there is no indefinite article in the greek and I errored in this video on applying that to John (1:1). John(10:30) the Jews were preparing to stone Jesus for claiming to be God not a god. The jews wouldn't have tried to stone someone for claiming to be a god, under their laws it was for claiming to be God. John (20:28) A first century jew wouldn't blaspheme in being startled, and Jesus being a Rabbi would have rebuked him for it.
epidome 3 years ago
The Jews might have thought he was claiming to be God but Jesus went on correcting them saying "You blaspheme, because I said, I am Gods Son?" John 10:36. Jesus never claimed to be God, but the son of God.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Come on now. Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. He's called Mighty who? GOD
Oh and I know you're gonna say mighty God night Almight but here's the problem in Isaiah 10:21 Jehovah is called Mighty God as well by the same prophet in the same book. Amazing.
wooddell89 3 years ago
wooddell89 God is only a title. God calls Moses "god" and the bible says that Satan is "god" too because of the power he has over this world. Of course Jesus can be called Mighty God because ALL AUTHORITY was given to him. Yet, we find 1 Corinthians 11:3 "the head of Chris is God". Who is the head of Christ? God . John 17:3 who is Jesus calling "the true God?" The Father. Now thats what I think is Amazing.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Come one now. The word can also mean everlasting. Don't believe me look it up. Also John 14:9-10 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
wooddell89 3 years ago
So if you've seen Jesus you've seen the Father. The Father is God right? Also Jesus is one with the Father. Is the Father God? Clearly you see he is God and the Son of God. Jesus was also called the Son of Man. Was Jesus a man? Absolutely. Is he God and the creator of everything? Absolutely. He's the Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. Also Jesus is My Lord and My God John 20:28. Is he your Lord and your God?
wooddell89 3 years ago
I really hope Jesus Christ is your Lord and God. Jesus is so special and he is Immanuel "God with us". What a special God to humble himself and die for us. It is absolutely amazing. Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and he is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
wooddell89 3 years ago
You seem to contradict yourself because you agree that Jesus is the son of God then you change your mind saying he is God, do you notice you cant find the wording God the son in the bible in that order? Its always God the Father.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Jesus is never called the Alpha and Omega that applies to Jehovah, and Jesus is the first and the last, but not the same sense as Jehovah. Jesus is the firstborn to be resurrected from the dead and the last because his God gave him the authority to resurrect the dead.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Others who follow in that resurrection will be raised by God through Christ. (John 6:40; 1 Cor. 6:14) Christ was the firstfruits of those asleep in death. (1 Cor. 15:20) When "First and Last" is again applied to Christ Jesus, at Revelation 2:8, note that again it is with respect to death and resurrection. But when it speaks of Jehovah there no limitation is set on the meaning.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
You asked "Is he your Lord and your God?" Absolutely because his God and Father has given him that position. Is it for Jesus own glory? NO Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. When we bow down to Jesus its for Jehovahs Glory not Jesus glory.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Jesus himself said "my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me" John 8:54; how can Gods glory mean nothing? Jesus is Kings of Kings and Lords of Lords because his God gave him that position Acts 2:37 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.". God made Jesus Lord, obviously the one who is given him the title Lord is over Jesus.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
You must not understand Yeshua. He has many titles. I was making the point simply is Jesus called the Son of Man? Yes he is. Was Jesus a Man? Absolutely. Was Jesus called the Son of God? Yes. Is he God? Yes. Your arguments are not good. The New Testament and the Old say Yeshua is God. John 1:1 14-8; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8. For crying out loud God the Father called God the Son God. I realize if you're a Jehovah's Witness you say Jesus is a god. However, that is ridiculious.
wooddell89 3 years ago
wooddell89 you said "Your arguments are not good" yet you couldnt refute any of them. Jehovah did call Jesus God true, but he called Moses and Judges Gods too so what is your point? Jehovah never called Jesus "my God" like Jesus always calls Jehovah "my God and Father". I already explained God is only a title. You may believe a god is ridiculious, but it makes more sense then a false Trinity.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
A false trinity that YOU nor ANY OTHER so called Christian can explain because its too much of a mystery to man kind, but the reality is the Bible doesnt teach the Trinity
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Yes, thank you wooddell89, it is my effort to make the true Jesus known, there are many different ones being preached but there is only one true Chirst. There are many ways of denying Jesus as God and as I defend the truth I am growing and stretching in understanding the teachings that others have been given in denying his deity and how to properly show his deity in leading others through these teachings to the truth of him. It is mind expanding and love inspiring to know that God became a man.
epidome 3 years ago
wooddell89 I relies the Hebrew word olám can mean everlasting, but it doesnt apply to Jesus as being eternal because we are told that Jesus is created "the firstborn of all creation", so it simply means an indefinite period of time. Im not sure how Jesus saying "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" proves Jesus is God.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
I know you dont think Jesus was telling his disciples if they saw his physical features they were seeing the Fathers features because God is a spirit. So what did he mean? The request, "Lord, show us the Father," suggests that Philip wanted Jesus to provide for his disciples a visible manifestation of God, such as was granted in visions to Moses, Elijah and Isaiah in ancient times. (Ex. 24:10; 1 Ki. 19:9-13; Isa. 6:1-5)
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
However, in such visions Gods servants saw, not God himself, but symbolic representations of him. (Ex. 33:17-22; John 1:18) Jesus reply indicated that Philip already had something better than visions of that type.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, whom only the Son fully knew, seeing Jesus Christ was like seeing God himself.—Matt. 11:27. for people to see the Father (that is, to perceive his personality, will and purpose) were afforded by what Jesus said, both as to content and manner of utterance.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Persons who listened to Jesus learned that God judges people according to their heart condition, rather than by external circumstances, such as wealth, education, ceremonial cleanness or national origin. (Matt. 5:8; 8:11, 12; 23:25-28; John 8:33-44) How different from the viewpoint fostered by the Jewish religious leaders!—Note John 7:48, 49. Jesus never usurped the position of God. He readily admitted that the authority with which he spoke and acted did not originate with him.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
It was a delegated authority, for "the Father had given all things into his hands." (John 13:3; compare Matthew 11:27; 28:18; John 3:35; 17:2.) Hence, Jesus declared: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise."—John 5:19; compare John 5:30; 8:28, 42.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
In addition Jesus would be contradicting himself if we were to accept your interpretation because a few verses down in verse 28 Jesus says "my Father is greater than I." And previous chapters John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither HEARD HIS VOICE at any time, nor seen HIS SHAPE." And still John 6:46 "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father".
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Your interpretation and conclusions just doesnt fit the rest of the scriptures.
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
epidome You claim "you must be afraid of trying to defend this teaching" but why did you remove my comment? Are you afraid that you whole video is not logical when compared to scripture?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
I didn't remove your comment. what was it? I was refering to Michael being Jesus. I really want to know the scriptures to prove this. I am honestly inquiring not scoffing. Would you tell me?
epidome 3 years ago
I was just doing research on this subject and e-mailed you some info. Now can you answer my question regarding Moses?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Okay, I'll look.
epidome 3 years ago
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Word of God is fully within the capability of human reason, that the Trinity is confusing and that God is not a God of confusion, that the word of God is simple and understandable. If this then is true why would an organization be required to teach it to us, why would it require those to help us properly understand and apply God's principles to our lives. Its a total contradiction.
epidome 3 years ago
Funny how many people died following the WTBTS and obeyed the prohibition of organ transplants for the WTBTS to turn around and say that transplants aren't canniblism and now they are saying that accepting blood is up to the Witness after thousands went to their graves refusing them believing that they were obeying God when they were just subject to the whims of men, the governing body.
epidome 3 years ago
The truth is JAKEV25 that you don't follow God, you follow the governing body and their word. If you don't live by every word that proceeds from the WTBTS than why do abstain from blood transfusions and why would you accept them if they said it was okay. There are sites on the internet by Jehovah's Witnesses that accept blood transfusions and their reasons why. If you look at what the WTBTS has published most recently on blood you will see that they are leaving the decision up to you now.
epidome 3 years ago
JAKEV25, If you believe 2 Timothy (3:16) then why don't you try studying the Bible without the Watchtower articles, see what the Word of God by itself speaks to you and then judge whether or not orthodox Christianity is true or false. Are you afraid to trust God at his word, what do you have to fear if 2 Timothy (3:16) is true and you believe it?
epidome 3 years ago
JAKEV25, can you explain Parousia to me according to the WTBTS occuring invisibly in 1914 against Matthew (24:23-27) and Matthew (24:30) and what about the generation of 1914 not passing away before the end of the world.
epidome 3 years ago
Amen brother. Praise the Lord. It is so clear! Jesus is worshipped all throughout scripture! So why won't they worship Jesus? Jesus is God and that's it. It goes against scripture if he was a god. Jesus is God! I mean it even says all things were created by Jesus!
wooddell89 3 years ago
Thank you very much wooddell89, its hard to defend the deity of Christ because anti Trinitarians have spent many years creating scriptural prexels to line it up with their heretical doctrines. Its fact that Judaism and Christianity are Monotheistic not Polytheistic. The WTBTS has even created their own translation in which they have changed many of the scriptures in the new testament dealing with the deity of Christ.
epidome 3 years ago
Due 10:17 "For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods."
If there are no other gods, how is Jehovah called "God of gods".
acerimmeh 3 years ago
Because angels are also called gods in the Bible and and so are demons, also humans but Jehovah is above all of them. That is does not mean that there are other gods in power to be believed in, Jehovah is peerless. everything other than God himself was created. God made everything and he is the only one to be worshiped not the creation.
epidome 3 years ago
I agree.
acerimmeh 3 years ago
Epidome is Jehovah a Polytheist calling Moses a god to Pharaoh in Exodus 7:1? "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Is Jehovah calling Moses a false god or a true god since according to your theology its limited to these 2 categories?
Yahwehthetrue1God 3 years ago
Well let's see if Jesus believed in more than one god. I wonder if he was a polytheist? Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods' John 10
Wasn't Moses called a god?
I think Jesus said this at John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
Here Jesus clearly excludes himself from the One true God Jehovah.
FYI the bible says that Jesus is a mighty god
JAKEV25 3 years ago
This is a clear example of the Bible applying the word gods figuratively, humans are not gods in the manner spoken of in Isaiah (43:10). That statement by Jesus calling Jehovah the one true God does not exclude Jesus from being God as well.
epidome 3 years ago
Jesus in Hebrew is never called Adonai...only YHWH is called Adonai...Jesus, the Son is always called Adoni...a title never given to YHWH Psalms 110
JAKEV25 3 years ago
Go ahead and give me the scriptures you use to show Jesus as Michael.
epidome 3 years ago
I will not waste my time...do your own research.
JAKEV25 3 years ago