I think that the argument that abortion is bad because you can make money off of it is totally missing the point. Abortion is a bad thing because it ends what could potentially be (and in late term abortions, is) a human life.
From a strictly mathematical stand point how could over 50 million "mistakes" have been made? 50 million+ being the number of abortions since RvW in 1973. Life isn't a mistake no matter how you look at it. Anyone that says there's is needs drugs and therapy.
@SamWayne83 No one is saying life is a mistake, or even that unplanned life is a mistake. You're grossly oversimplifying things, as is usually the case with anti-choicers. A sperm penetrating an egg does EVENTUALLY produce life, but you can't tell me a fetus that neither thinks nor feels until the third trimester is alive in any meaningful sense, and especially not a zygote. By your broad and ridiculous definition of life, you're committing a holocaust just washing your hands.
Sorry one more thing. The whole "mistake" argument is a bit naive to say the least. How can anyone honestly say that, for the most part mind you not counting rapes, that two consenting adults having sex resulting in pregnancy is a "mistake." Conception is a by product of sex, no mistake there. The mistake was the fact that these people more than like didn't use any protection. Think about it condoms, and birth control are around 97% affective when used.
@SamWayne83 I'm not disputing that contraception is the way to go, but I think what's naive is your simplistic view of what constitutes a mistake. Sure, people know that having sex products pregnancy in many cases, and not using contraception certainly raises the chances of it, but how do these invalidate a mistake that's made when two people who don't want pregnancy wind up pregnant? That's like saying someone who drives with no seat belt and turns into the wrong lane didn't make a mistake.
One more thing. You said that the "life starts at conception" is based on an article of faith, and then went on later to use the term "empty shell" for a brain dead person. That brain dead person living off of "technology" is no more different biologically than you or I. Does that mean you believe them to have something else inside them other than organs yourself before their brain death? Something perhaps like a "soul" of sorts that makes them more "human?" That would take faith too sir.
@SamWayne83 Biologically speaking, they ARE different from you and I. A brain dead "person" has no electrical activity, because the cerebral neurons have died. No one recovers from brain death, and an end of electrical activity always means an end of consciousness - no postulation of a "soul" is necessary.
Having a bit of a problem with the whole STD argument. For one an STD is an ILLNESS, and is treated as such because without treatment sterility, or even death in some cases is the outcome. Human life on the other hand is not an illness, and to compare it to an STD is.....well idiotic to say the least. I don't mean to offend, just saying it as plainly as I possibly could.
@mshippiemama23 What a stupid and utterly irrelevant question. I also believe people should grow up about sex and always use protection to reduce the number of abortions even considered, but not all abortions involve your stereotypical careless teenagers. What about the ones that are medically threatening?
@TaylorX04 at least we agree on something, but there are statistics that show(at least england anyways) that most abortions are due to casual mistakes and the medial ones are quite low, well?
@mshippiemama23 Even if "most" are due to casual mistakes, so what? Does that mean those rare cases of life threatening medical issues would be denied the option of abortion? I think that's ridiculous and cruel, a lot moreso then terminating a cluster of cells that cannot think or feel.
@TaylorX04 so lets say late term change your mind then its so what? even when its heart starts to beat, its ok to randomly have them? life starts at conception. simple as
@mshippiemama23 The "life starts at conception" doctrine is nothing but an article of faith. Do you think a brain dead body living on a machine is still alive? Technology is keeping the heart beating, but without brain function there's only an empty shell.
@TaylorX04 and btw, stds are far more worrying than pregancy, should be glad its new life, so its very much so part of the point, and therefore you really didint have a point to make to me, sad really :)
@mshippiemama23 I didn't have a point to make because your question, like I said, is stupid and irrelevant. That's all that's sad. I'd worry more about STDs then pregnancy too, but my personal concerns in that regard have nothing to do with whether or not abortion is right, and neither do yours.
@TaylorX04 im pro life, and abortion useully comes with something "unwanted". stds are something unwanted. so unless we are going to have a proper convo about it then maybe we should give up :)
@mshippiemama23 I'm fully capable of having a proper conversation. You're the one making irrelevant statements and questions, acting like they're profound. STDs are unwanted, just as children are in some cases... your point being what? You should suck it up and put up with whatever STD or child you have? Don't get treatment for an STD, don't have an abortion, just deal with it? Yeah, that makes child raising sound so special, doesn't it?
@TaylorX04 irriational? no, not at all what i meant, what i meant is maybe if there was full proper use of contraception in most of abortion cases then you wouldint be pregant and have other unwanted things=STDS!! like what normal strong woman do = EDUCATE YOURSELF :)
@mshippiemama23 I don't think you ought to be telling anyone to educate themselves when you misspell irrational, wouldn't, pregnant, and say "what normal strong woman do" like its correct grammar. Sure, if contraception is used, the chance of pregnancy and STDs is minimal. That's not an argument against abortion though, it's an argument for SAFE SEX. Do you even know what you're rambling on about?
I don't see what is so funney about that comment you read. It is so true. there would not be as many abortions women followed good old bible and kept there virginity until marrige.
@mpar777 I didn't ask you where it says murder is wrong, I asked where it says ABORTION is wrong. I'll go one step further though - find me any bible verse that shows that God values the life of a fetus. I can find you several that show the opposite, but I'll wait and see what you come up with first.
My mother was advised by her doctor that abortion might be a good option since they didn't have enough money to raise a handicapped child.
Luckily, there was a problem in the doctors timeline, and he had guessed I would be born a few months before I did, and I was fine.
Point being, I have no problem with abortion, why the fuck should anyone else? I don't remember anything from back then, and I can guarantee that I would have felt nothing if it had gone to pass...
That's what irritates me too. I enjoy telling people that if they don't like abortion, they don't have to have one. What anyone else wants to do is none of their goddamn business. Women shouldn't have their choice taken away because of another person's pathetic understanding of prenatal development or their totally unscientific religious beliefs.
The thing is once the children are born....... Fuck 'em Don't raise my taxes helping families in need, Healthcare lol thats a privlege, not a right, I'm not for paying for someone elses heathcare. People are out for self, have these Pro Lifers ever given their time, or money to help orphans in other countries, do you even think of other people in other countries. Leave religion at home with this issue, its a "Social" issue. What are the people doing to help others. I ask again Do you want them?
Conception is a starting point for something, a kick off point. Scientist do not say "today I will create a 6 mo. old fetus. to do that they need to start at conception, and they need at least six months.
When the two sets of chromosomes have intermingled, the zygote is genetically unique and its sex is established.
It only needs nutrition and a reasonably hospitable enviornment to continue to grow and develop (assuming adequate health)
Yes, conception is the starting point for the developmental PROCESS that will result in a newborn child. If you terminate the process before it has a chance to finish, you are obviously not terminating a human being. Maybe a potential human being, but even sperm has the potential to make a human being. You're essentially arguing that we should allow the process to continue uninterrupted. But by terminating it, when it is at a stage that neither thinks nor feels, what great crime is committed?
What you call a "PROCESS" has its own genetic code (DNA) and has a gender (both scientifically proven facts), that developes on its own volition. When you say it is obvious that you are not terminating a human being, Obvious to whom? Most embryologist agree that the human being starts at conception. They do not refer to the embryo as a process. While the embryo might be undergoing a development "PROCESS" so is a one year old child, and a teenager, and so on. aging is a process.
So what if it has DNA? That's like calling blueprints a building.
"Most embryologist agree that the human being starts at conception."
Please source this claim. Sure the development process is on-going, but as I already stated, once it is capable of thoughts and feelings, then you can make the argument that the development is significant enough to raise serious ethical concerns. Before then, the only way a fetus has value is if you arbitrarily consider it valuable.
At what point do we consider that an embryo has thoughts and feelings? I've considered this for a while to be the determining factor of whether it is immoral to kill something. Sentience I think is the quality that we have a moral imperative to preserve. The potentiality of sentience seems of much less importance.
So how many months would it take for an embryo to develop to the point to be considered sentient?
Where does science define the term "human being". That is a philosophic concept, not a scientific one.
Do you have any data as to how many embryologists state that a fetus is a human being? Certainly, it is alive; and certainly it has the human DNA. But DNA is merely a set of instructions. Is the set of instructions about how to build a car the same as the car itself?
You want to talk profit..ok...thousands were given to the pro-life movement.....but in 2007 planned parenthood made over 1 billion dollars in PROFIT...there isnt a profit to be had in pro-life...but there sure is in abortion.
Your the fucking idiot...you have no clue what is going on or what it is your talking about...but hey its your right to spout off like an idiot so....go right ahead dipshit....
Boy, you just bark madly like a dog when you're backed into a corner with an intelligent response, huh? Planned Parenthood deals with sex education, vasectomies, STDs, breast cancer, contraception, menopause treatment, and a lot of other issues besides abortion. Donations to their organization are not exclusively in support of abortion. Don't act like a fucking childish bitch because I showed your statement to be ignorant.
Your video was pretty much about how the pro-life movement gets donations & recieves thousands in funding.....last year planned parenthood recieved 300 million from the gov't...its a billion dollar industry....funded by ABORTION...you pro-choice tell us, fix the world, fix healthcare...fix all womens problems & THEN tell me not to abort..1st NO ONE is thinking about the population, Gov't spending or anything else but THEMSELVES when aborting. be responsible 4 your actions, ask PPH to donate
Have you looked at Planned Parenthood's donations? How do you know they're primarily funded by abortion? As for the rest of your comment, I'm not asking you (whoever you are) to fix the world or fix healthcare, I'm asking you to stop with the archaic thinking about the "sanctity of life" and listen to what the doctors, scientists, and other educated people are telling us.
Oh..Doc's...I guess you only pay attention to, or remember what Doc's say...if they are pro-choice...there are just as many & more who say life begins at conception. archaic? to value life? To think its wrong to kill a child who didnt have a choice of parent or conception? but you know who did have a choice? The woman getting the abortion...but i shldnt expect her to behave responsibly? thats pro-choice. no responsibility, no accountability.
I have known doctors who are pro-life, but their reason for being so usually comes as the result of a religious belief, a personal experience during an operation, or some other emotional issue that leads them to ignore what science and medicine tell them.
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say valuing life is archaic, I meant that the notion of life beginning at conception is archaic. But let's back up for a minute. What do you think it means to say something has life?
& here we go..1st you say I put words in your mouth, but yu have no problem with speaking for pro-life Doctors hmm.. 2nd pro-choice just loves to dehumanize the issue..it is human..it cant BE anything else....all this crap you spout about its not human or alive....well dead things dont grow & Im not going to have to get a new desk this year because my computer grew out of this one. Pro-choice love choice, but bring up the fact that a choice had to be made B4 you get pregnant...cont..
I'm not speaking for all pro-life doctors, I'm only saying what I've noticed about their reasons for being pro-life.
So life to you is simply something that grows or develops over time? Should we protect plants then too? Bacteria? Should sperms and eggs be considered human beings, since they eventually grow into a person? You make this seem like way more of a simple issue than it is.
Ah yes..lets distract from the issue, yes plants are alive...but not human, tho you will find plenty of activists who blv in their protection...but lets stick with HUMANS..ok? a sperm cant grow..in to a child or anything else without the egg...you might as well ask about cutting hair and fingernails....Pro-choice try to OVER simplify the issue.
Yes, a sperm can't grow into a child without an egg, but neither can a fetus grow into a child if it does not survive gestation. A fetus does not feel or think before the third trimester - it is a mass of tissue. You seem to think it's valuable just because it could become a human being, but the fetus is not conscious or alive in any meaningful sense and loses nothing if it dies. It is not your right to value another woman's fetus for her and stop her from deciding what to do with it.
Ah you show your ignorance...sorry these babies are NOT just a mass of cells when aborted...pls educate yourself on fetal development & abortion methods B4 you talk about it. 2nd...its called the value of life....& the ONLY way injustice has been stopped in ANY case in history, is when ppl stand for those without a voice....pro-life give a voice & value to abortion victims.....Hopefully education will do the rest...but we will never know until ppl put their own WANTS aside & educate themselves
They're not just masses of cells? What else do they have? Why can't you inform me, based on your "education" in the process of fetal development? It sounds like you just want to call me ignorant for disagreeing, not for actually being wrong.
Fetuses don't have voices, but neither do they have anything valuable about them. They are objects, masses of tissue, as I said before. If you want to educate, you must first educate yourself, and that might change your irrational views on abortion.
Ahhh...ok, so we are going to skip right over the whole FOCA thing...skip over you saying I made it up...ok, we can do that...The fact that you are even asking "what else do they have?" tells the tale...You dnt know about fetal development, or methods of abortion...you state things like "they are object" & this only uncovers more of your ignorance. I didnt attack you, Im not be hostile...you are. ignorance isnt the problem here. Ignorance can be corrected with education....cont...
You did make it up. You've never told me where it was in the bill, just like you refuse to make your case for a zygote, embryo, or fetus being more than masses of cells. You pretend I don't know about something you won't even tell me. I have research fetal development a good amount and never heard of some mysterious missing element. I'm beginning to think you're going to say they have souls, midi-chlorians, or something equally ridiculous.
I did better than tell you where they were...I gave you the page...but im done with you...2 ppl can debate...but when one calls the other a liar & then pretends to not have been given the truth...well that makes you a liar & a fool & debate isnt possible...I wont respond..say what you like...I bet you take this convo down...because you KNOW it makes you look like a fool.
Go ahead and don't respond. I've made a new video just for you that will be up soon. It might be good to tell me where you found that text you emailed me, before you're accused of lying or misrepresenting the truth.
I don't know whether you noticed the irony of the video about FOCA that taffygirl has featured on her channel. At about 4:06 it says "This a preview version purchase at (url)" Talk about pro-life for profit. lol
However stupidity is haveing the information & refuseing to admit it ....simply because you cant stand the thought of being wrong...I gave you facts...I gave you the truth about FOCA...useing the website YOU gave me...so now ur back to "its not alive or human" I cant help you...you can only help yourself. See ya!
No, you copied and pasted some text from a page I don't know of, which is completely different from the one I linked you to. Your text refers to the 111th Congress, which has not seen FOCA even introduced, and mine refers to the 110th Congress.
& its a whole other can of worms....like haveing sex isnt a choice...like ppl are my JRT who comes in to heat & cant STOP herself from mateing....pro-choice only want to talk about the choices AFTER sex...yeah...no accountability
No, actually I would rather people use contraception than have to have an abortion, but there are people opposing sex education too, so not everyone has access to condoms or birth control. What about you, do you support contraception, or do you try to tell people they shouldn't have sex at all?
Yes I do blv in contraception..& more than just to prevent pregnancy...but I ALSO blv in self control....I dnt see "sex drive" as a valid point. I DO blv in sex ED. & with that in mind, pls look in to FOCA..obama & PPH are trying to pass...FOCA wld REMOVE abortion from sex ED. & prevent Doc's from shareing info with these women..like fetal developmen & abortion methods. PPH isnt all its cracked up to be. If they REALLY care about women, children & "family". Why keep ppl in the dark???
Actually, one of the findings in FOCA specifically states, "While abortion should remain safe and legal, women should also have more meaningful access to family planning services that prevent unintended pregnancies, thereby reducing the need for abortion." Do you actually do the research on these things yourself, or just buy into whatever the pro-life movement tells you? There's nothing in FOCA about preventing sex education either.
I have looked in to this & did a lot more than skim it...FOCA wld force prolife health care providers to perform abortion..it wld stop these doc's from shareing information...it WLD remove abortion from sex ed..as well as stop any gov'y official from speaking AGAINST abortion in a public forum. there are restrictions fed & state for funding abortion..those wld be gone. Obama wants tax payers to pay for abortion here...but also around the world. I advise a close study of this bill.
Here's an online copy of the bill: thomas(dot)loc(dot)gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S(dot)1173:
Please point out where it says anything about removing abortion from sex ed or preventing doctors from sharing info. I advise YOU to have a close study of the bill - the text itself too, not just the raving propaganda of some anti-choice zealots.
Additionally, if you support contraception, you believe that it is ok to terminate gametes (sex cells). Gametes will grow into a human being though, so they're alive, according to you. Why is that acceptable, but aborting a fetus is not? Do you even know the differences between gametes, an embryo, and a fetus?
Also..FOCA wld lift the ban on partial birth abortion & make abortion legal in ALL 9mo of pregnancy.....you are trying to over simplify AGAIN....your sperm cant do ANYTHING without the egg...you might as well suggest that cutting my hair wld be murder........I HAVE educated myself on..fetal develpment, abortion methods & stats...AAANNND FOCA. but what your doing is trying to defend your uneducated point of view...these comments are rediculous & dont help your stand.
Here's an online copy of the bill: thomas(dot)loc(dot)gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S(dot)1173:
Please point out where it says anything about banning partial birth abortions or legalizing abortion for all 9 months of pregnancy.
You clearly have not educated yourself either on FOCA or the reproductive cycle, and when questioned on it, you resort to attacking me. Well done, I think you've proven yourself to be enough of a brainwashed pro-life follower.
Ok, i copied & pasted a good deal of it, but there is too much for one email...I got this from the website YOU gave me. I wasnt makeing it up....I wasnt attacking you. Education is important...for ANY issue. But please dont try to OVER simplify abortion...or ignore the reason why PPH backs FOCA...for PPH its not about women or family...its about money.
Why is that exceptable but aborting a fetus is not?? Well lets see, perhaps because if ur sperm cld do anything men wld have hundreds of millions of babies swelling their sac..then I wld probably call you a murder for masterbating...but Im not ...& why...becaust that cant happen...a sperm is not a baby..nor an egg...
Sounds like you are upset because more Americans consider themselves prolife than pro abortion. Why so religous? just stick to science to defend your point...
Why so religious? Most Americans consider themselves smarter than scientists, which is why the majority of our country is religious, creationist, and pro-life. In simple terms: most of America is fucking stupid. I'm used to intelligence being a rarity here. Now if you ever set foot outside our boundaries, you might find the rest of the world excels us in virtually every way, especially science - leading them to be a bit more rational in their views on religion, evolution, and abortion.
Was Hitler rational when he expeimented on human beings? Are we? The argument over abortion is a very scientific one. Either it is a human being or it isnt. Science says that it is. I guess the question I have is not wether you believe in God, but do you beleive it is ok to kill other human beings for convenience.
My theory is that people who support abortion want to argue about religion because they cannot rationally defend their own position on abortion.
What the fuck do Hitler and Nazi experiments have to do with abortion?
Yes, abortion is partly a scientific issue. No, science does not say a fetus is a human being. First of all, what makes us human, in your opinion, and why does human life have intrinsic value, as you seem to believe it does? Science tells us that a fetus cannot think or feel before the third trimester, because the thalamus has not developed to allow the transfer of info through the brain.
What's the vast difference between a zygote the very moment of conception and a sperm & egg a millisecond before conception? A unique cell is just as much human as a fetus 5+ months after conception to you?
If you had to make the choice of saving the life of one 5 year old or only saving 500 embryos [all of which are in womb and are known pregnancies], which would you choose?
Without conception, the egg and the sperm remain just that, an egg and a sperm, which they will remain until they die. After conception that is not the case. Something is set in motion. The question is what was set in motion. Prolifers say that it is the starting point for life.the DNA does not match that of the mother or father. I dont have enough space to answer the second question in this post.
Actually, many women found him useful as a health professional, not just for abortions. Good argument though. Really shows your intelligence and integrity. Jesus would be proud.
Pro-life spends money to save the lives of the precious innocent unborn humans. The pro-choice(death)culture does not have to spend money on abortion, because the government is busy taxing us all to pay for the death of the unborn.
Paying for the right of a woman to her own body - it's a bitch, isn't it? In reality, there's no way you can claim that a fetus or embryo is a human or a baby unless you pretend it has some mythical thing to it that real human beings do, like a "soul". There is no experience of pain, emotion, or ANY brain function until the third trimester. How exactly are fetuses/embryos even close to humans then? None of our identifiable characteristics are present in them.
Nope, it is a known FACT that the thalamus is not formed until the third trimester. If we're defining human beings as organisms capable of the same thoughts and feelings you and I have, science absolutely proves they are not human beings. Let me know when you have any scientific information on your side at all. I won't hold my breath though.
I dont beleive I have seen a science book that defines a human being "as organisms capable of the same thoughts and feelings you and I have" and if there was one, I would like to see the data backing up that idea.
There is a ton of science that supports the idea that the fetus is a human being.
Remeber, we are discussing the origins of an individual human being, not the continuim of life through the last few million years.
your origin can be traced back to that single cell.
Please, don't hold back from revealing this "ton of science that supports the idea that the fetus is a human being". Yes, we are discussing the origins of an individual, but a fetus can be called nothing other than a stage in the development of human life. It is not self-sustainable until around the third trimester, and as I said, it also lacks the biological equipment to think or feel until that time. In no meaningful sense can it be called a human being.
How about the entire study of embreology that supports the idea that a human being starts at conception. Yes it is a fact that the thalmus develops at a certain point in pregnancy, however in your statement, you say "If we define a human being that way" that is much different than saying "science defines a human being that way"
Science does NOT define an embryo or a fetus as a human being. What embryology teaches is that fertilization is the first step in a development process that results in a human being. Science cannot absolutely answer the question of when exactly human life begins, because it is not a scientific question, it depends on what criteria you use to estimate. Some embryologists may say fertilization, others may say gastrulation, others may say when the neural network is formed, and so on.
I dont think it is a good idea to say it is ok to kill something that may be a human life based on an estimate.
Currently abortion is legal through all nine months, for any reason (though states may regulate abortion after 28 weeks, they cannot ban it)
Like everybody else, science should error on the side of caution when it comes to human life. Your right to life should trump somebodys desire not to be pregnant, or any other reason they would use to kill you.
they spend a crapload of money for tiny results. for all the money they spend the abortion rate is still around 850,000 per year and people aren't acting any better than before
furthermore abortion is cheaper than pregnancy and the gov or insurance companies most like take the hit for that ( that rasies costs on all us BTW)
so instead of whining about a clump of cells that doesn't know otherwise why don't you people use your money to do things that ACTUALLY reduce abortion?
is it wrong to desire infinite growth and evolution of consciousness?!
TheLovesoul1 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TaylorX04
I think that the argument that abortion is bad because you can make money off of it is totally missing the point. Abortion is a bad thing because it ends what could potentially be (and in late term abortions, is) a human life.
clandestine919 5 months ago
From a strictly mathematical stand point how could over 50 million "mistakes" have been made? 50 million+ being the number of abortions since RvW in 1973. Life isn't a mistake no matter how you look at it. Anyone that says there's is needs drugs and therapy.
SamWayne83 1 year ago
@SamWayne83 No one is saying life is a mistake, or even that unplanned life is a mistake. You're grossly oversimplifying things, as is usually the case with anti-choicers. A sperm penetrating an egg does EVENTUALLY produce life, but you can't tell me a fetus that neither thinks nor feels until the third trimester is alive in any meaningful sense, and especially not a zygote. By your broad and ridiculous definition of life, you're committing a holocaust just washing your hands.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
Sorry one more thing. The whole "mistake" argument is a bit naive to say the least. How can anyone honestly say that, for the most part mind you not counting rapes, that two consenting adults having sex resulting in pregnancy is a "mistake." Conception is a by product of sex, no mistake there. The mistake was the fact that these people more than like didn't use any protection. Think about it condoms, and birth control are around 97% affective when used.
SamWayne83 1 year ago
@SamWayne83 I'm not disputing that contraception is the way to go, but I think what's naive is your simplistic view of what constitutes a mistake. Sure, people know that having sex products pregnancy in many cases, and not using contraception certainly raises the chances of it, but how do these invalidate a mistake that's made when two people who don't want pregnancy wind up pregnant? That's like saying someone who drives with no seat belt and turns into the wrong lane didn't make a mistake.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
One more thing. You said that the "life starts at conception" is based on an article of faith, and then went on later to use the term "empty shell" for a brain dead person. That brain dead person living off of "technology" is no more different biologically than you or I. Does that mean you believe them to have something else inside them other than organs yourself before their brain death? Something perhaps like a "soul" of sorts that makes them more "human?" That would take faith too sir.
SamWayne83 1 year ago
@SamWayne83 Biologically speaking, they ARE different from you and I. A brain dead "person" has no electrical activity, because the cerebral neurons have died. No one recovers from brain death, and an end of electrical activity always means an end of consciousness - no postulation of a "soul" is necessary.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
Having a bit of a problem with the whole STD argument. For one an STD is an ILLNESS, and is treated as such because without treatment sterility, or even death in some cases is the outcome. Human life on the other hand is not an illness, and to compare it to an STD is.....well idiotic to say the least. I don't mean to offend, just saying it as plainly as I possibly could.
SamWayne83 1 year ago
Im pro life.really think in my mind people need to grow up about sex.screw everything else,anwser this? Is stds n6t more scary then a fetus/baby?
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 What a stupid and utterly irrelevant question. I also believe people should grow up about sex and always use protection to reduce the number of abortions even considered, but not all abortions involve your stereotypical careless teenagers. What about the ones that are medically threatening?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 at least we agree on something, but there are statistics that show(at least england anyways) that most abortions are due to casual mistakes and the medial ones are quite low, well?
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 Even if "most" are due to casual mistakes, so what? Does that mean those rare cases of life threatening medical issues would be denied the option of abortion? I think that's ridiculous and cruel, a lot moreso then terminating a cluster of cells that cannot think or feel.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 so lets say late term change your mind then its so what? even when its heart starts to beat, its ok to randomly have them? life starts at conception. simple as
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 The "life starts at conception" doctrine is nothing but an article of faith. Do you think a brain dead body living on a machine is still alive? Technology is keeping the heart beating, but without brain function there's only an empty shell.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 and btw, stds are far more worrying than pregancy, should be glad its new life, so its very much so part of the point, and therefore you really didint have a point to make to me, sad really :)
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 I didn't have a point to make because your question, like I said, is stupid and irrelevant. That's all that's sad. I'd worry more about STDs then pregnancy too, but my personal concerns in that regard have nothing to do with whether or not abortion is right, and neither do yours.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 im pro life, and abortion useully comes with something "unwanted". stds are something unwanted. so unless we are going to have a proper convo about it then maybe we should give up :)
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 I'm fully capable of having a proper conversation. You're the one making irrelevant statements and questions, acting like they're profound. STDs are unwanted, just as children are in some cases... your point being what? You should suck it up and put up with whatever STD or child you have? Don't get treatment for an STD, don't have an abortion, just deal with it? Yeah, that makes child raising sound so special, doesn't it?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 irriational? no, not at all what i meant, what i meant is maybe if there was full proper use of contraception in most of abortion cases then you wouldint be pregant and have other unwanted things=STDS!! like what normal strong woman do = EDUCATE YOURSELF :)
mshippiemama23 1 year ago
@mshippiemama23 I don't think you ought to be telling anyone to educate themselves when you misspell irrational, wouldn't, pregnant, and say "what normal strong woman do" like its correct grammar. Sure, if contraception is used, the chance of pregnancy and STDs is minimal. That's not an argument against abortion though, it's an argument for SAFE SEX. Do you even know what you're rambling on about?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
I don't see what is so funney about that comment you read. It is so true. there would not be as many abortions women followed good old bible and kept there virginity until marrige.
mpar777 1 year ago
@mpar777 Point me to any passage in the bible that says abortion is wrong.
Women don't have to keep their virginity when sex education about contraception is a far more practical means to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 The bible says murder is wrong in exodus when Moses presents the ten commandments.
mpar777 1 year ago
@mpar777 I didn't ask you where it says murder is wrong, I asked where it says ABORTION is wrong. I'll go one step further though - find me any bible verse that shows that God values the life of a fetus. I can find you several that show the opposite, but I'll wait and see what you come up with first.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@mpar777 jeremiah 1:4-5
mpar777 1 year ago
My mother was advised by her doctor that abortion might be a good option since they didn't have enough money to raise a handicapped child.
Luckily, there was a problem in the doctors timeline, and he had guessed I would be born a few months before I did, and I was fine.
Point being, I have no problem with abortion, why the fuck should anyone else? I don't remember anything from back then, and I can guarantee that I would have felt nothing if it had gone to pass...
Cyrathil 2 years ago 2
That's what irritates me too. I enjoy telling people that if they don't like abortion, they don't have to have one. What anyone else wants to do is none of their goddamn business. Women shouldn't have their choice taken away because of another person's pathetic understanding of prenatal development or their totally unscientific religious beliefs.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Well said.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
your video proved nothing, you have no real facts or heart
redrockerike 2 years ago
Yes, plug your ears and shout "la la la" when you can't handle the truth. Just like a Christian.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
The thing is once the children are born....... Fuck 'em Don't raise my taxes helping families in need, Healthcare lol thats a privlege, not a right, I'm not for paying for someone elses heathcare. People are out for self, have these Pro Lifers ever given their time, or money to help orphans in other countries, do you even think of other people in other countries. Leave religion at home with this issue, its a "Social" issue. What are the people doing to help others. I ask again Do you want them?
sincere2da 2 years ago
Conception is a starting point for something, a kick off point. Scientist do not say "today I will create a 6 mo. old fetus. to do that they need to start at conception, and they need at least six months.
When the two sets of chromosomes have intermingled, the zygote is genetically unique and its sex is established.
It only needs nutrition and a reasonably hospitable enviornment to continue to grow and develop (assuming adequate health)
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Yes, conception is the starting point for the developmental PROCESS that will result in a newborn child. If you terminate the process before it has a chance to finish, you are obviously not terminating a human being. Maybe a potential human being, but even sperm has the potential to make a human being. You're essentially arguing that we should allow the process to continue uninterrupted. But by terminating it, when it is at a stage that neither thinks nor feels, what great crime is committed?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
What you call a "PROCESS" has its own genetic code (DNA) and has a gender (both scientifically proven facts), that developes on its own volition. When you say it is obvious that you are not terminating a human being, Obvious to whom? Most embryologist agree that the human being starts at conception. They do not refer to the embryo as a process. While the embryo might be undergoing a development "PROCESS" so is a one year old child, and a teenager, and so on. aging is a process.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
So what if it has DNA? That's like calling blueprints a building.
"Most embryologist agree that the human being starts at conception."
Please source this claim. Sure the development process is on-going, but as I already stated, once it is capable of thoughts and feelings, then you can make the argument that the development is significant enough to raise serious ethical concerns. Before then, the only way a fetus has value is if you arbitrarily consider it valuable.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
It has its own DNA, to differentiate it from either parent. The Zygote has its own blueprint inside.
Embryo - Robert P. George & Christopher Tollefsen. P 47.
Who is deciding that the capability of "thoughts and feelings" give you your value? And what are they basing it on?
The supreme court decided that humanity could be decided by skin color.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
At what point do we consider that an embryo has thoughts and feelings? I've considered this for a while to be the determining factor of whether it is immoral to kill something. Sentience I think is the quality that we have a moral imperative to preserve. The potentiality of sentience seems of much less importance.
So how many months would it take for an embryo to develop to the point to be considered sentient?
ScissorHand26 2 years ago
Where does science define the term "human being". That is a philosophic concept, not a scientific one.
Do you have any data as to how many embryologists state that a fetus is a human being? Certainly, it is alive; and certainly it has the human DNA. But DNA is merely a set of instructions. Is the set of instructions about how to build a car the same as the car itself?
pirbird14 2 years ago
Well said. A fetus or even egg touched by sperm does not equal a human life.
I think of it as comparing killing a bulb of a plant with cutting down a tree.
As for what prolife said; the fetus needs a bit more than a "reasonably hospitable environment to continue to grow and delevop".
When the fetus that is young enough to be aborted it would not survive outside of the uterus.
AnAverageSkeptic 2 years ago
"to do that they need to start at conception..." no, they need to start at geting eggs and sperm.
logoth80 2 years ago
You want to talk profit..ok...thousands were given to the pro-life movement.....but in 2007 planned parenthood made over 1 billion dollars in PROFIT...there isnt a profit to be had in pro-life...but there sure is in abortion.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Damn, you pro-lifers can be idiots sometimes. Planned Parenthood is more than just a pro-choice organization, so of course they've made more.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Your the fucking idiot...you have no clue what is going on or what it is your talking about...but hey its your right to spout off like an idiot so....go right ahead dipshit....
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Boy, you just bark madly like a dog when you're backed into a corner with an intelligent response, huh? Planned Parenthood deals with sex education, vasectomies, STDs, breast cancer, contraception, menopause treatment, and a lot of other issues besides abortion. Donations to their organization are not exclusively in support of abortion. Don't act like a fucking childish bitch because I showed your statement to be ignorant.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Your video was pretty much about how the pro-life movement gets donations & recieves thousands in funding.....last year planned parenthood recieved 300 million from the gov't...its a billion dollar industry....funded by ABORTION...you pro-choice tell us, fix the world, fix healthcare...fix all womens problems & THEN tell me not to abort..1st NO ONE is thinking about the population, Gov't spending or anything else but THEMSELVES when aborting. be responsible 4 your actions, ask PPH to donate
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Have you looked at Planned Parenthood's donations? How do you know they're primarily funded by abortion? As for the rest of your comment, I'm not asking you (whoever you are) to fix the world or fix healthcare, I'm asking you to stop with the archaic thinking about the "sanctity of life" and listen to what the doctors, scientists, and other educated people are telling us.
What would PPH donate to, btw?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Oh..Doc's...I guess you only pay attention to, or remember what Doc's say...if they are pro-choice...there are just as many & more who say life begins at conception. archaic? to value life? To think its wrong to kill a child who didnt have a choice of parent or conception? but you know who did have a choice? The woman getting the abortion...but i shldnt expect her to behave responsibly? thats pro-choice. no responsibility, no accountability.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
I have known doctors who are pro-life, but their reason for being so usually comes as the result of a religious belief, a personal experience during an operation, or some other emotional issue that leads them to ignore what science and medicine tell them.
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say valuing life is archaic, I meant that the notion of life beginning at conception is archaic. But let's back up for a minute. What do you think it means to say something has life?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
& here we go..1st you say I put words in your mouth, but yu have no problem with speaking for pro-life Doctors hmm.. 2nd pro-choice just loves to dehumanize the issue..it is human..it cant BE anything else....all this crap you spout about its not human or alive....well dead things dont grow & Im not going to have to get a new desk this year because my computer grew out of this one. Pro-choice love choice, but bring up the fact that a choice had to be made B4 you get pregnant...cont..
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
I'm not speaking for all pro-life doctors, I'm only saying what I've noticed about their reasons for being pro-life.
So life to you is simply something that grows or develops over time? Should we protect plants then too? Bacteria? Should sperms and eggs be considered human beings, since they eventually grow into a person? You make this seem like way more of a simple issue than it is.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Ah yes..lets distract from the issue, yes plants are alive...but not human, tho you will find plenty of activists who blv in their protection...but lets stick with HUMANS..ok? a sperm cant grow..in to a child or anything else without the egg...you might as well ask about cutting hair and fingernails....Pro-choice try to OVER simplify the issue.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Yes, a sperm can't grow into a child without an egg, but neither can a fetus grow into a child if it does not survive gestation. A fetus does not feel or think before the third trimester - it is a mass of tissue. You seem to think it's valuable just because it could become a human being, but the fetus is not conscious or alive in any meaningful sense and loses nothing if it dies. It is not your right to value another woman's fetus for her and stop her from deciding what to do with it.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Ah you show your ignorance...sorry these babies are NOT just a mass of cells when aborted...pls educate yourself on fetal development & abortion methods B4 you talk about it. 2nd...its called the value of life....& the ONLY way injustice has been stopped in ANY case in history, is when ppl stand for those without a voice....pro-life give a voice & value to abortion victims.....Hopefully education will do the rest...but we will never know until ppl put their own WANTS aside & educate themselves
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
They're not just masses of cells? What else do they have? Why can't you inform me, based on your "education" in the process of fetal development? It sounds like you just want to call me ignorant for disagreeing, not for actually being wrong.
Fetuses don't have voices, but neither do they have anything valuable about them. They are objects, masses of tissue, as I said before. If you want to educate, you must first educate yourself, and that might change your irrational views on abortion.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Ahhh...ok, so we are going to skip right over the whole FOCA thing...skip over you saying I made it up...ok, we can do that...The fact that you are even asking "what else do they have?" tells the tale...You dnt know about fetal development, or methods of abortion...you state things like "they are object" & this only uncovers more of your ignorance. I didnt attack you, Im not be hostile...you are. ignorance isnt the problem here. Ignorance can be corrected with education....cont...
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
You did make it up. You've never told me where it was in the bill, just like you refuse to make your case for a zygote, embryo, or fetus being more than masses of cells. You pretend I don't know about something you won't even tell me. I have research fetal development a good amount and never heard of some mysterious missing element. I'm beginning to think you're going to say they have souls, midi-chlorians, or something equally ridiculous.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I did better than tell you where they were...I gave you the page...but im done with you...2 ppl can debate...but when one calls the other a liar & then pretends to not have been given the truth...well that makes you a liar & a fool & debate isnt possible...I wont respond..say what you like...I bet you take this convo down...because you KNOW it makes you look like a fool.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Go ahead and don't respond. I've made a new video just for you that will be up soon. It might be good to tell me where you found that text you emailed me, before you're accused of lying or misrepresenting the truth.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I don't know whether you noticed the irony of the video about FOCA that taffygirl has featured on her channel. At about 4:06 it says "This a preview version purchase at (url)" Talk about pro-life for profit. lol
TheNakedAtheist 2 years ago
However stupidity is haveing the information & refuseing to admit it ....simply because you cant stand the thought of being wrong...I gave you facts...I gave you the truth about FOCA...useing the website YOU gave me...so now ur back to "its not alive or human" I cant help you...you can only help yourself. See ya!
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
No, you copied and pasted some text from a page I don't know of, which is completely different from the one I linked you to. Your text refers to the 111th Congress, which has not seen FOCA even introduced, and mine refers to the 110th Congress.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
& its a whole other can of worms....like haveing sex isnt a choice...like ppl are my JRT who comes in to heat & cant STOP herself from mateing....pro-choice only want to talk about the choices AFTER sex...yeah...no accountability
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
No, actually I would rather people use contraception than have to have an abortion, but there are people opposing sex education too, so not everyone has access to condoms or birth control. What about you, do you support contraception, or do you try to tell people they shouldn't have sex at all?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Yes I do blv in contraception..& more than just to prevent pregnancy...but I ALSO blv in self control....I dnt see "sex drive" as a valid point. I DO blv in sex ED. & with that in mind, pls look in to FOCA..obama & PPH are trying to pass...FOCA wld REMOVE abortion from sex ED. & prevent Doc's from shareing info with these women..like fetal developmen & abortion methods. PPH isnt all its cracked up to be. If they REALLY care about women, children & "family". Why keep ppl in the dark???
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Actually, one of the findings in FOCA specifically states, "While abortion should remain safe and legal, women should also have more meaningful access to family planning services that prevent unintended pregnancies, thereby reducing the need for abortion." Do you actually do the research on these things yourself, or just buy into whatever the pro-life movement tells you? There's nothing in FOCA about preventing sex education either.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I have looked in to this & did a lot more than skim it...FOCA wld force prolife health care providers to perform abortion..it wld stop these doc's from shareing information...it WLD remove abortion from sex ed..as well as stop any gov'y official from speaking AGAINST abortion in a public forum. there are restrictions fed & state for funding abortion..those wld be gone. Obama wants tax payers to pay for abortion here...but also around the world. I advise a close study of this bill.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Here's an online copy of the bill: thomas(dot)loc(dot)gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S(dot)1173:
Please point out where it says anything about removing abortion from sex ed or preventing doctors from sharing info. I advise YOU to have a close study of the bill - the text itself too, not just the raving propaganda of some anti-choice zealots.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Additionally, if you support contraception, you believe that it is ok to terminate gametes (sex cells). Gametes will grow into a human being though, so they're alive, according to you. Why is that acceptable, but aborting a fetus is not? Do you even know the differences between gametes, an embryo, and a fetus?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Also..FOCA wld lift the ban on partial birth abortion & make abortion legal in ALL 9mo of pregnancy.....you are trying to over simplify AGAIN....your sperm cant do ANYTHING without the egg...you might as well suggest that cutting my hair wld be murder........I HAVE educated myself on..fetal develpment, abortion methods & stats...AAANNND FOCA. but what your doing is trying to defend your uneducated point of view...these comments are rediculous & dont help your stand.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Here's an online copy of the bill: thomas(dot)loc(dot)gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S(dot)1173:
Please point out where it says anything about banning partial birth abortions or legalizing abortion for all 9 months of pregnancy.
You clearly have not educated yourself either on FOCA or the reproductive cycle, and when questioned on it, you resort to attacking me. Well done, I think you've proven yourself to be enough of a brainwashed pro-life follower.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I wasnt attacking you...& I cant read the bill in 2 min. If you wait I will get back with you...& show you just where it says that..
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Ok, i copied & pasted a good deal of it, but there is too much for one email...I got this from the website YOU gave me. I wasnt makeing it up....I wasnt attacking you. Education is important...for ANY issue. But please dont try to OVER simplify abortion...or ignore the reason why PPH backs FOCA...for PPH its not about women or family...its about money.
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Why is that exceptable but aborting a fetus is not?? Well lets see, perhaps because if ur sperm cld do anything men wld have hundreds of millions of babies swelling their sac..then I wld probably call you a murder for masterbating...but Im not ...& why...becaust that cant happen...a sperm is not a baby..nor an egg...
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
donate a few hundred million & we might get somewhere...
taffygirlgood 2 years ago
Sounds like you are upset because more Americans consider themselves prolife than pro abortion. Why so religous? just stick to science to defend your point...
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Why so religious? Most Americans consider themselves smarter than scientists, which is why the majority of our country is religious, creationist, and pro-life. In simple terms: most of America is fucking stupid. I'm used to intelligence being a rarity here. Now if you ever set foot outside our boundaries, you might find the rest of the world excels us in virtually every way, especially science - leading them to be a bit more rational in their views on religion, evolution, and abortion.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Was Hitler rational when he expeimented on human beings? Are we? The argument over abortion is a very scientific one. Either it is a human being or it isnt. Science says that it is. I guess the question I have is not wether you believe in God, but do you beleive it is ok to kill other human beings for convenience.
My theory is that people who support abortion want to argue about religion because they cannot rationally defend their own position on abortion.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
What the fuck do Hitler and Nazi experiments have to do with abortion?
Yes, abortion is partly a scientific issue. No, science does not say a fetus is a human being. First of all, what makes us human, in your opinion, and why does human life have intrinsic value, as you seem to believe it does? Science tells us that a fetus cannot think or feel before the third trimester, because the thalamus has not developed to allow the transfer of info through the brain.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
what does science say a fetus is if not a human being? Please reference the science book you are reading.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
A fetus is a stage of prenatal development. For you to argue that it is a human being, you need to state your case too, so let's hear it.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
What's the vast difference between a zygote the very moment of conception and a sperm & egg a millisecond before conception? A unique cell is just as much human as a fetus 5+ months after conception to you?
If you had to make the choice of saving the life of one 5 year old or only saving 500 embryos [all of which are in womb and are known pregnancies], which would you choose?
brutus149 2 years ago
These are great questions.
Without conception, the egg and the sperm remain just that, an egg and a sperm, which they will remain until they die. After conception that is not the case. Something is set in motion. The question is what was set in motion. Prolifers say that it is the starting point for life.the DNA does not match that of the mother or father. I dont have enough space to answer the second question in this post.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Tiller was useless.....
sandroeleven 2 years ago
Actually, many women found him useful as a health professional, not just for abortions. Good argument though. Really shows your intelligence and integrity. Jesus would be proud.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
dont bring jesus into this....nice try
sandroeleven 2 years ago
I won't bring Jesus into it if you don't. I think you may find that pretty difficult though, since you seem like quite the fundamentalist.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Pro-life spends money to save the lives of the precious innocent unborn humans. The pro-choice(death)culture does not have to spend money on abortion, because the government is busy taxing us all to pay for the death of the unborn.
angelshoulders 2 years ago
Paying for the right of a woman to her own body - it's a bitch, isn't it? In reality, there's no way you can claim that a fetus or embryo is a human or a baby unless you pretend it has some mythical thing to it that real human beings do, like a "soul". There is no experience of pain, emotion, or ANY brain function until the third trimester. How exactly are fetuses/embryos even close to humans then? None of our identifiable characteristics are present in them.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
sounds like your opinion, not science. I have yet to see a science book say that the fetus is not a human being. let me know when you find one.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Nope, it is a known FACT that the thalamus is not formed until the third trimester. If we're defining human beings as organisms capable of the same thoughts and feelings you and I have, science absolutely proves they are not human beings. Let me know when you have any scientific information on your side at all. I won't hold my breath though.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I dont beleive I have seen a science book that defines a human being "as organisms capable of the same thoughts and feelings you and I have" and if there was one, I would like to see the data backing up that idea.
There is a ton of science that supports the idea that the fetus is a human being.
Remeber, we are discussing the origins of an individual human being, not the continuim of life through the last few million years.
your origin can be traced back to that single cell.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Please, don't hold back from revealing this "ton of science that supports the idea that the fetus is a human being". Yes, we are discussing the origins of an individual, but a fetus can be called nothing other than a stage in the development of human life. It is not self-sustainable until around the third trimester, and as I said, it also lacks the biological equipment to think or feel until that time. In no meaningful sense can it be called a human being.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
How about the entire study of embreology that supports the idea that a human being starts at conception. Yes it is a fact that the thalmus develops at a certain point in pregnancy, however in your statement, you say "If we define a human being that way" that is much different than saying "science defines a human being that way"
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
Science does NOT define an embryo or a fetus as a human being. What embryology teaches is that fertilization is the first step in a development process that results in a human being. Science cannot absolutely answer the question of when exactly human life begins, because it is not a scientific question, it depends on what criteria you use to estimate. Some embryologists may say fertilization, others may say gastrulation, others may say when the neural network is formed, and so on.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I dont think it is a good idea to say it is ok to kill something that may be a human life based on an estimate.
Currently abortion is legal through all nine months, for any reason (though states may regulate abortion after 28 weeks, they cannot ban it)
Like everybody else, science should error on the side of caution when it comes to human life. Your right to life should trump somebodys desire not to be pregnant, or any other reason they would use to kill you.
prolifesocietyvideo 2 years ago
they spend a crapload of money for tiny results. for all the money they spend the abortion rate is still around 850,000 per year and people aren't acting any better than before
furthermore abortion is cheaper than pregnancy and the gov or insurance companies most like take the hit for that ( that rasies costs on all us BTW)
so instead of whining about a clump of cells that doesn't know otherwise why don't you people use your money to do things that ACTUALLY reduce abortion?
theeyeisblind 2 years ago 2
TaylorX04,
"Indulgences, anyone?"
LOL :)
And please don't forget all the televangelists leading lives of luxury that should offend their donors.
And oh - BTW,
Nice debunking!
amoxtlacatl 2 years ago 5
Good call on the weaksauce argument
Sadly, that argument sounds solid enough if someone is already biased, or only half listening.
Ah...rhetoric....keeping people relatively clueless based on what the orator wants to be glossed over.
Niveous23 2 years ago
The audio was great - there was no distortion at all when you exclaimed:
"BIG ABORTION!"
At least, none I heard over my own laughter!
airihi 2 years ago 2
Much better audio!
halelorf 2 years ago
is it your opinion that catholics are not christian? maybe it would be more accurate to say protestant and catholic christians.
MommyAIAI 2 years ago
Right. I think I still differentiate the two from my years as a Christian. Orthodox Catholicism has some pretty weird shit in it.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
So do all of them......
hombre1mia 2 years ago
Lol, can't argue with that.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
good points :)
The audio is much improved.
musicgeniusno1 2 years ago