Christian, Evolutionist, or Both? (Alvin Plantinga)

[linuxisbetter0]

The term "evolutionist" is ridiculous. There are only biologists.

[GlorytoYHWHofHosts]

His shirt is messing with my eyes.

[shronemor]

@GlorytoYHWHofHosts

Oh why did you say that, now it's messing with mine :-)

Still... he has a lot to say worth listening to.

God Bless

[AegeanKing]

ALL TRUTH IS GOD'S TRUTH. IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE, THEN THAT IS GOD'S TRUTH. WHO ARE WE TO QUESTION GODS METHODS?

[ITTutorCanada]

What people don't realize is that the thoughts/motives behind the man who invented the theory of evolution was to come up with a world view where God isn't necessary and hopefully, can be proven to not exist at all. Having that knowledge, do you feel stupid now for trying to integrate that concept into your Christian Theology? Don't bow down people because of the pressure of "all the smart people believe it." dissentfromdarwin(dot)org. That is a lie. :)

[blatttman]

@ITTutorCanada Are you saying that any idea that may comes from a non Christian is false? We are all made in Gods image whether we acknowledge it or not, come on there is a lot of evidence to support evolution, it may not be the whole story but you can't dismiss it all surely. Christians should not fear following the evidence wherever it leads , which I think is to a God anyway :)

[ITTutorCanada]

@blatttman Did I say "anything non-Christian is false"? No, I didn't, so don't put words in my mouth. "We are all made in Gods image" through constant change? Evolution says that eventually we won't even be human anymore. Eventually we'll change into an entirely new, better species and the remnant of us will die for being inferior. Does God change? Is that Gods image? Will God grow one day into a completely different God? I think not.

[Gazdo01]

@ITTutorCanada "Evolution says that eventually we won't even be human anymore. Eventually we'll change into an entirely new, better species and the remnant of us will die for being inferior."

Sorry, but that statement is utterly false.

Where on Earth do you get you information??

[Gazdo01]

@ITTutorCanada But again... even IF your statement was correct...

How does that discredit evolution AT ALL??

You can't judge the validity of a hypothesis simply by determining its consequences.

It is pretty obvious that you believe in God for the wrong reasons. Unlike St Augustin, you have rejected Rationnal Thought in order to remain in a secure state of mind. Luckily, there are christians out there (mostly Catholics I'd argue) who can believe in God AND make use REASON.

[ITTutorCanada]

@Gazdo01 Wow, are you a retard? It's pretty common belief among darwinists that human beings came from a type of extinct african ape, and so did neanderthals and other various primates. It then came to a showdown basically between us and neanderthals, we bread with them somewhat, but eventually being the inferior species, they died out completely. The ancestor we apparently came from died out completely. Dinosaurs, died out completely. Do you even know what you're defending?

[Gazdo01]

@ITTutorCanada It's not because we have evolved to get here, that we're going to dissapear necessarily. There are species that live today that exist from before the dinosaurs, i.e. more than 65 millions years ago. Some biologist believe that humans do not evolve anymore. Evolution only works when certain genes offer a better chance to reproduce, in adverse situations.

That being said, you STILL haven't answer the question. How does your opinion discredit the FACT of evolution??

[blatttman]

@ITTutorCanada Apology's, I just wanted to clarify your view point."We are all made in Gods image",this is open to interpretation! However it doesn't mean we are perfect like God, far from it, but each of has the spark of divinity.You could argue it's the aim of every Christian to "evolve" this divinity and become nearer to God, Isn't that what the Saints aimed to achieve and what we should aspire to?Don't we as a species have to "evolve" in our thinking as Jesus showed us ? worth a thought :)

[Gazdo01]

@ITTutorCanada "the thoughts/motives behind the man who invented the theory of evolution was to come up with a world view where God isn't necessary and hopefully"

1. That's complete nonsense. Science doesn't have a hidden agenda, it is built on EVIDENCE. Facts don't lie.

2. EVEN IF (which I don't believe) the consequence of evolution is a world view in which God is not necessary, HOW IS THAT RELEVANT AT ALL to whether evolution is TRUE?? If something is TRUE, then it's TRUE, no matter what.

[LeperKing]

@Gazdo01 In regards to your first point, there are quite a number of times scientist have falsified or omitted evidence because it was contrary to what they wanted to believe.

[Gazdo01]

@LeperKing

1. Name a few?

2. Totally irrelevant to what the SCIENTIFIC METHOD stands for :)

If you study the history of science, you'll find that it is SCIENTISTS who, in the face of falscified evidence, reacted the loudest, not the skeptics.

Of course there are bad, ill intended scientists... just as there are bad christians... Doesn't mean there is a bad christianity. Science is science, it does not lie... for one simple reason: IT WORKS, and can be REPRODUCED.

[ITTutorCanada]

@Gazdo01 Evolution is true? Okay, can you please forward me some hypothesis and methodological instructions for testing macro evolution? Since we have observable, testable criteria and evidence I'd love to reproduce it myself in a lab so I can test it. If macro evolution is too-tall of an order just go ahead and do the same for micro, I'd like to see new, constructive and positive DNA added to anything. I'll anxiously await your reply.

[Gazdo01]

@ITTutorCanada

Micro evolution: all the dogs in the world come from primitive wolves, domesticated by men ten thousand years ago... OR bacteria resistance to antibiotics.

Adding constructive and positive DNA: horizontal gene transfert in bacteria

I'm not a biologist nor a geneticist. Just naming this from college classes I took years ago. Here are a couple of specialists you might find interesting:

/watch?v=w1m4mATYoig

/watch?v=Xj7WA1tzuAs

/watch?v=k7gZhksK9Sw

What about my 2nd question?

[H0tkebab]

Someone needs to show the 'Banana man' this.

[RighteousPaladin]

I think the problem with finding honest, open-minded atheists is that they eventually realize that God exists and become either Christians or the other kind of atheist.

[Taurion4467]

hmm still skeptical since we were made in the imagine of God, mosses did see the back of god and didn't say it was an ape Exodus 33:21-23 good video though something to think about. But who knows how long God thought before he made the earth, 6 days is all it could take if he wrote it down on paper and planed it out before doing it

[AgApE010]

@Taurion4467

The image of God isn't speaking about physical appearance. After all, God is spirit. "Image of God," in the ancient world, had to do with having authority to rule. For instance, in the ancient Near East, kings were said to be in the image of their gods. So in Genesis, man is said to be made in the image of God since God gave man authority over the earth and its creatures.

[Taurion4467]

@AgApE010 yea good points thx

[billynotv]

The Christian shouldn't struggle with this subject

Telling quote: "Science changes it's mind a lot"

Does the bible claim to be the Eternal word of God or not?

Is man perfect in knowledge and understanding, or is he fallen and imperfect?

Is God perfect in knowledge and understanding, or not?

Is creation perfect or has it been cursed of God? Should we therefore be taking 'revelation from nature' on par with the Word of God?

Should Augustine be a sound point of reference for biblical christianity!

[AegeanKing]

@billynotv Friend, my point wasn't that Augustine should the be the point of reference for biblical christianity. My point was that even the most well respected ancient Christian theologians did not find Biblical hyper-literalism necessary in order to be a good Christian. Therefore, modern Christians should not try to pigeon hole scripture into one particular genre when it has historically been read as many genres.

[billynotv]

@AegeanKing Hey....I wasn't responding to your post! It was a comment on something AP said.

No problemo.

[allan3141]

Why would anyone thumb this video down! Let alone almost 1/2; as at time of my writing this!

I am not even a Christian but it seems to me the persons thumbing this video down are against debate itself and, there even existing, people with ideas contrary to theirs. Gosh now that's close-minded and arrogant.

[LeperKing]

@allan3141 Have you considered that the people who voted down the video listened to the argument and found it wanting or absurd? If someone does not agree with someone does not mean they are closed minded or arrogant. Roll up your "Jump to Conclusions" mat and give people the benefit of the doubt before you start the name calling.

[Donnievil]

@allan3141 Perhaps it should occur to you that some are thumbing it down because they disagree with the perspectives expressed...which would be a form of open debate wouldn't it?

Otherwise everyone would only ever thumbs up a video and that would seem to remove the right to dissent from ideas.

[dannywizz]

This is very disappointing to see Alvin Platinga meeting the evolutionists halfway when the reality is that Evolution is a soft science with very little substance.

[MPaulHolmes]

At the end, are they really talking or just pretending for the camera?

[MPaulHolmes]

Good video. Thank you for posting!

[AegeanKing]

Many ancient Christian and Jewish theologians did not take Genesis literally. In fact, some ancient Christian theologians didn't even take Noah's Ark or Jonah and the great fish literally either. In the case of Jonah, Augustine argued that Jonah and the great fish were a type of messianic prophecy alluding to Christ. The parallels being, Jonah swallowed by the fish (Death) and is then raised three days later by God (Resurrection).

[HeReformedMe]

@AegeanKing I do believe God created it all in 6 days. In fact there is some evidence that suggests the earth was made and cooled in under 9 minutes. Nor do I have problem with the flood. I think there is plenty of evidence that suggests lots of things died suddenly in years past. The Jonah thing though, I must admit, was difficult to swallow. But if we believe Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, after being in a tomb for several days, why can't God allow a man to be trapped in a fish and live?