Cultural Relativism Discredited in 30 Seconds & How to Deal with Depression

[TheArthas17]

i was doing research, on cultural relativism and i must say this has really help me out a lot despite the fact that it is only 30 secs long

[shantih433]

You really need more views.

[eimajism]

As for depression, I for one like the way Alan Watts put it in his book, "The Wisdom of Insecurity" when he stated that the problem with this is the separation of the mind & the body. In today's fast paced globalized world, our brains r so stimulated that it constantly seeks more & greater stimulation to be satisfied. while our body's for the most part, don't respond to the stimulation (ex: males obsession w/ porn then lack of performance in the actual bed). This leads to anxiety/depression.

[eimajism]

To say something is "better" (1:17-1:19) would necessarily demand a higher standard of comparison to what classifies "better." ex: Slavery, once thought to be better (regardless of your current beliefs), then the abolition of Slavery, thought to be "better" (regardless of current belief). Or immigration even. Next will be chip implanted in us for safety. Seems like a circle jerk of some form of slavery..am i wrong? Since this seemingly perpetual system of slavery is present, is slavery "better?"

[HectorVictorious1]

I'm a pretty smart guy, but after attending university, I must admit, I almost bought into the whole cultural relativism argument.

Ask any 5-year-old if slavery, murder, or mutilation is wrong and you will get a straight answer. So how is it that so-called intellectuals can be at all apologetic toward such flagrant abuses of human well-being??

Answer: One must be extremely learned to be so fucking dumb.

[HectorVictorious1]

@HectorVictorious1 Also, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED if you are interested in this topic:

The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values by Sam Harris

[shEvoDEevolution]

I like your perspective on depression. It's so hard to deal with it sometimes and usually no matter how much I accomplish that drill Sargent inside my head is always trying to put me down saying I could have been better or done more. Oh and cultural relativism is complete bullshit.

[MannyFandango]

I am often guilty of using the word 'Western' and 'Eastern'.

What does the term western cultural concept mean?

[HeavyTrafficAhead]

So basically what you're saying is that we need to discard Western values in order to save them. 'Cultural Relativism' is one of those contraptions created to insulate another agenda called 'Cultural Imperialism' and justify an aggressive foreign policy from legitimate criticism. It's The White Man's Burden' redux. When ever I hear the term I get a vision of some guy with a giant #1 Foam Finger chanting, "USA! USA!". Which doctrine/attitude has caused more problems in the world?

[Akatam0t0ma]

Just noticed the video now. I wonder, how come I haven't seen it before?

Have you seen my videos to her before you made this one?

[LordClydeofOMAR]

@Akatam0t0ma Yeah, I saw a few. The were among a few others that helped inspire this.

[ForceWare]

5) The idea behind modern CR is basically to condemn Ethnocentrism (the opposite) and create in us a sensitivity towards different cultures, not leading to acceptance, but on the contrary, enabling us to make qualified assessments taking into account as many factors as possible, such as the historical context, political, geographical or economical peculiarities and so on.

[ForceWare]

4) Given that we do have a certain scale by which we can compare different moral principles of individuals, we certainly can also assess these traits in different cultures. However, that does not and can not make a qualitative difference since it is only ONE facet of a culture out of many.

[ForceWare]

2) Therefore it can not be subject to itself. It is not relativizing itself, as it is not relativizing ethics or its anthropological basis. (Again I am referring to modern CR, not the 19th century ideas.)

3) It is often confused with Moral Relativism (which I am opposed to). It does NOT imply that there are no, let's call it, absolute fundamental ethical axioms (e.g. the Categorical Imperative).

[ForceWare]

I have to disagree. You can not seriously believe that you can discredit something this complicated in 30 seconds. ;) :D

1) Cultural Relativism is not a uniquely western cultural concept. In fact, it is neither a cultural concept, nor an ideology (whatever gave you that idea...) at all. Modern Cultural Relativism is predominantly an anthropological METHOD of approaching cultural diversity.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

You're not addressing the nature of the argument, which is that you can be as "sensitive" as you want, but you simply cannot escape cultural bias. This method, or whatever you want to call it, is just as culturally biased as any other approach one can muster. Believing that your cultural background somehow allows you to be uniquely capable of approaching another culture with no degree of bias is one of the most ethnocentric things I've ever heard of.

[ForceWare]

@LordClydeofOMAR

So, let me get this straight. Your opinion is that basically EVERYTHING we think, believe - therefore say and do - is culturally biased? That our whole human experience is based on or issues from the culture we grew up in? Pardon me, but that is a very simple world view. Certainly our behaviour mostly bears a cultural imprint, but not everything. In fact, distinguishable "cultures" came into existence way too late in human history for this thesis to be true.

[ForceWare]

(continue...)

What almost no human can escape is our hard-wired HUMAN traits (or let's call it bias). And some few people even accomplish that at times. The evolutionary mechanism however, is what is at the heart of (again: nearly) every thought/action of us. It stands way above any individual/cultural conviction. Yes, culture does influence us all, some more, some less, but it is not ubiquitous. Therefore unbiased attitudes are possible. Complex and rare, but possible.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

I'm thinking I should have called this video "Moral Relativism Discredited in 30 seconds". Because the original argument was about culturally unique morals anyway.

[ForceWare]

Now that's a totally different story. ;)

Always glad to bash Moral Relativism. Should take up a bit more than 30 seconds though, I assume.

Anyway, should you have any more interesting arguments concerning Cultural Relativism, I would be happy to be put into place. :)

As Socrates said: I know that I don't know.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

Well, the argument I presented was originally conceived after someone explained postmodernism to me. It took me all of two minutes to conclude that that idea is self-contradictory. I don't think an argument needs further elaboration once you've pointed something like that out.

[wncism]

@ForceWare

If we're talking about escaping bias of any kind, we would have to assume that bias also escapes our universal moral obligations. Are you saying then that bias is only a product of culture we are "imprinted" with? And if not, then would you disagree that this excludes bias from other froms of moral obligations we carry whether they are universal or voluntary?

[BoundlessEyes]

The problem with your critique of cultural relativism, which is, by the by, a label I have never applied to my own beliefs, is that it assumes that 'better' ideas win out rather than those with the most military or financial backing, those put forth by the strongest nations.

I fail to see how depression invalidates my viewpoints and find this part of the video patronising... wait, it was all patronising.

Thanks for the response.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

Well, now I see where trying to respectfully disagree with you get's me.

First of all, I'm not saying that ideas with military backing haven't forced their way in as you imply, but not all of them did. Buddhism did not originate in china.

Second, when did I say that depression invalidates your opinion? Did you miss the part where I mentioned how I had it as well? If I was suggesting that, then I would invalidate my own opinion as well. I was genuinely trying to be helpful with the second part.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

"which is, by the by, a label I have never applied to my own beliefs"

This was based on a discussion from 6 months ago.

Furthermore, If you think I'm being patronizing, then you are WAY off base. I try to add a little wit to my videos, but I do it so that things don't get to heavy when I'm dealing with deep topics. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[BoundlessEyes]

The label comes from a pwnage video someone else made 6 months ago and had nothing to do with anything I myself said.

A little wit... by saying you'd like to smash my face in? Hardy har.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

I said that was my INITIAL reaction. Having thought on it, I decided that it wasn't really what I wanted. I thought I had expressed that. The whole drill Sergent sequence was designed to illustrate what depression feels like, because that's how I visualize it. That's not what I wanted to do to you. Geez, don't you have any sense of irony or metaphor? Was it my tone?

[BoundlessEyes]

I wasn't talking about the Full Metal Jacket sequence, a film I love representing a concept I understood. I'm talking about your initial reaction and your suggestion that majority opinion (my being a 'pwnage magnet') somehow discredits my views.

You're acting as though you have been so misunderstood here, but many other people manage to make oppositional responses without a tone of pwnage.

Call me humourless. I'll call you immature. We'll agree to disagree.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

The label "pwnage magnet" hearkens back to where I noticed how many haters you had. Since you are now denying association with the basis for this, it really is a moot point.

This was really kind of two videos in one. Two different opinions and attitudes if you will. You've even pointed out how people seem to either love you or hate you. Personally, my opinion is somewhere in between.

[BoundlessEyes]

I don't deny that I am (or my views are) a pwnage magnet, just to clarifiy. I deny that an argument from popular opinion of my character has any impact on the validity of my argument, as you seemed to argue. A reason to give up my views? Because the majority disagree? The only valid reason to change an argument is in the light of new evidence or a stronger counter argument. Which I'm having trouble locating.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

But like you said, this isn't your viewpoint, correct?

[LordClydeofOMAR]

Its not really so much a reflection on your character as much as it is about an oversight. All I'm saying is that by suggesting that ideas lying across cultural boundaries are off limits for judgment because of a perceived cultural bias is a contradiction. You are still approaching it from a biased western standpoint anyway.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

"I'm talking about your initial reaction and your suggestion that majority opinion somehow discredits my views."

Its not the majority that discredits CR, it is its contradictory nature that discredits it. People will gravitate towards that like moths to a flame.

[BoundlessEyes]

Oh, sorry, you misunderstand me or I communicate badly. To clarfiy: 'cultural relativist' is a term applied by a user called Ayakat0ma (or something) 6 months ago without a proper understanding of my argument and is not a viewpoint I associate with.

I suppose what I'm disputing with you is your assertion that my being a pwnage magnet, i.e. holding an opinion which is unpopular with the majority, is a valid reason to change it. (01:46)

[BoundlessEyes]

This phallacious argument could be applied to every viewpoint I hold. But perhaps I misunderstand you? Perhaps you were just adding that on as an additional incentive to see the light with regards to cultural relativism? (which clearly, I still dispute with you on aforementioned grounds, those being that the concept of 'better' and 'worse' cultural practices must be operationalised and contextualised with imperialist power relations).

[LordClydeofOMAR]

That's just the thing, when you look at it that way, you end up ignoring the exceptions. Not every idea that found its way from one civilization to another took the bus of imperialism.

The fact is, this entire concept of "culture" is really quite meaningless when you consider that civilizations across the globe have been feeding and bouncing ideas off each other since their respective inceptions. Remember, there was a time when parts of europe were under islamic imperialist rule.

[BoundlessEyes]

Yes, I'm happy to drop it on those grounds. I'm not sure to what extent my views are culturally relativist so I'm not desperate to argue it with you. I guess my concern is that in placing moral judgements on cultures, we condemn the poor homeless child who steals and the big robust business man who steals equally without any sense of intent or necessity. But like I say, cultural relativism is not a position I care much about defending. (cont)

[BoundlessEyes]

The label is associated with me because I held up my hands and admitted that the reason I do not fight for the rights of women in Islamic countries is that I am ignorant of their culture and personal desires on the subject. I did not say I would be unable to gain such knowledge, purely that I did not, unfortunately, currently hold it.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

While there are women in islamic countries who have learned to "enjoy" essentially living like slaves, there were also western women at the turn of the century through the 1950s who "enjoyed" their position as well.

There are also women in these countries who have very much adopted the western notion of feminism. I'm sure there are some right here on youtube who would greatly appreciate your support.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

I would recommend looking carefully though.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

Don't sweat it. Truth be told, without the ability to impose some level of moral judgment, we are essentially rendered impotent in solving those issues. Not everything is our fault.

[BoundlessEyes]

Speak for yourself. I'm a feminist. Everything is my fault. =)

[LordClydeofOMAR]

I wouldn't say that. I am NOT discussing feminism with you however.

Tell me though, what did you think of the last three minutes? The ones about depression.

[BoundlessEyes]

Interesting, why so unwilling to discuss feminism?

[LordClydeofOMAR]

Well, because I haven't quite formulated my opinion on it yet. What I try to do is look at both sides of an issue, and form a new and unique perspective that can hopefully move the discussion forward. I haven't really done that with feminism.

I try to think long and hard about what I say before I say it, which I obviously should have done more with this video. My whole way of looking at it is if the audience doesn't get it, its my fault.

[BoundlessEyes]

Oh, I can relate to that, definitely. My atheist-theist youtube debate critique needs an entire follow-up video because people have thrown it off on wild tangents, and that's nobody's fault but my own.

[LordClydeofOMAR]

I do kinda get where you're coming from on that. I live in one of the more liberal states (its one that allows gay marriage) so it isn't as much of an issue locally. However, drive out far enough and all of that changes in a heartbeat. You actually see billboards slandering atheists. Then they have the nerve to accuse US of hate speech when we advertise social groups. You mentioned that you are coming to America soon. There are certain areas to steer clear of.

[Akatam0t0ma]

@BoundlessEyes:

By "someone else" I assume that you refer to me. If my responses to you were inadequate, how come you never bothered to set them straight, and instead resorted to blocking?

After all, you DID endorse the self-defeating dogma of cultural relativism in your videos, and you DID falsely accuse Pat of ethnocentrism and me xenophobia(As if that was supposed to be anything else than racism).

[LordClydeofOMAR]

@Akatam0t0ma You know, it's funny. I made this video back when I felt genuine sympathy for people like BoundlessEyes and nuclearnight - boy has that changed! I would never make a video like this now. I think what may have set me on this path originally was the way Jessica basically spit on this video even though like 70% of it was meant to be helpful. Fuck feminists!