i like raeburn but i think that billy eckstine's, dizzy gillespie's and even (ulp!) stan kenton's big bands deserve more credit for being ahead of their time than raeburn. though raeburn certainly is entitled to more than the mere footnote he's been relegated to.
What a find this is ! Great job on one of the most progressive big bands that could swing like hell thanks to the great Jackie Mills.What happened to the book that McKinney was writing on Boyd? p.s. Not a word about him on the Ken Burns' "Jazz".
This is a really nice overview of Boyd Raeburn's great band. Everyone is influenced by others, but Raeburn had his own style, especially with the double reeds. He was indeed a man ahead of his time. That bass sax sounded great on the bottom of the saxes!
I agree that Sauter and those were writing already. However, they grew in time, as Mandel did after writing with Raeburn when he was only 16 years old. The question isn't who came first, but who made the inroads as a band leader with this style of arranging. That's why it was being called new and innovative under his baton.
Thanks so much for doing the film and posting it! Discovering Raeburn via some 78s that were part of a collection I bought in the 1990s really rocked my world—"Tonsilectomy"! "Dalvatore Sali!" That arrangement of "Over the Rainbow"! Crazy stuff!!
Eventually, I got to meet and hang with his son, Dr. Bruce Boyd Raeburn, while visiting New Orleans; a great and knowledgeable guy.
I'm so glad you liked it! I don't know if folks around here know it, but I discovered Mr. Raeburn when looking for the soundtrack music for my noir mystery short "The Smiling Man." Boyd's music added the perfect tone for the movie. DVDs are available at TheSmilingMan (dot) com.
Very true about David Allyn. He is still singing and doing many of these charts with his own big band. Kenton sent Rugolo to listen to George Handy's arrangements. That is the explanation for Kenton's success. Allyn is so underated it isn't funny. Sinatra was certainly influenced by him. Haymes as well.
I agree completely. I think he is one of the most underrated singers in jazz. But the few who know him love him. I'd be interested to know why he wasn't mentioned. I smell politics!
He actually wrote an autibiography recently. I was the one that got him out of retirement in 1990 and put him in the Red Blazer in NYC with his big band.
"Kenton sent Rugolo to listen to George Handy's arrangements. That is the explanation for Kenton's success." Wasn't Kenton playing Rugolo's adventurous "Opus A Dollar Three Eighty" in April '44 in California, a month before Handy joined Raeburn in New York?
Those words didn't come from me, they came from a kenton musician. Raeburn had the arrangements that musicians wanted to play, that's why Roy Eldridge and Dizzy came to play with Boyd on several ocassions. Rugolo was highly influenced by the Raeburn sound of the mid 1940's. The greatest sounds of Kenton came post that period. I had this discussion with David Allyn and Jack McKinney several times. Johnny Mandel also agreed with us.
"Those words didn't come from me, they came from a kenton musician." Which Kenton musician are you referring to? I don't doubt that Rugolo admired Handy a lot -- as of '46, or whenever -- but I'm interested in when he first became aware of Handy, and how much Finckel may have influenced Rugolo and others. During about the June '44 to May '45 period, when Roy and Diz both played with the band, and Bothwell was still in the band, the main guy writing adventurous scores for Raeburn was Finckel.
That is partly true, but the impetus to this whole sound was the Tone Poem, pioneered by George Handy. You must speak with Allyn and Mandel on this. It isn't even an arguable point as to what the inspirations of the Kenton sounds were.
"the Tone Poem, pioneered by[....]" Ellington, Sauter and others were writing works similar to the classical "tone poem" during the years just before Raeburn went adventurous. Anyway, I would suggest Bothwell leaving Raeburn as a useful chronological cutting off point, and I'd suggest that when Bothwell left the band, Finckel likely had had more overall influence on all adventurous big bands than Handy yet had, and that Kenton was already adventurous and already successful.
Actually, Eddie Sauter found Raeburn to be the great influence on his band in the 50's. You are set on Kenton not being influenced by anybody. Eddie Sauter also was one that early on found the Raeburn influence to be his impetus. I should send you the IAJRC tape where countless times there are stated first hand accounts of this influence. Whether it was Handy or Finckel, it doesn't matter. Best to you as well. I'll go with Mandel and countless other first hand accounts.
"You are set on Kenton not being influenced by anybody." No. "Sauter also was one that early on found the Raeburn influence to be his impetus." Before Finckel or Handy was writing for Boyd, Sauter was a favored arranger for the most famous jazz band in the world ("Benny Rides Again," "Superman," "Clarinet A La King," etc.). "Whether it was Handy or Finckel, it doesn't matter." Both important, I'm interested how. Agree that DE admired and funded Boyd's work -- after DE wrote the likes of "Ko-Ko."
I am glad that you mentioned Eddie Sauter. He was highly influenced by the Raeburn band and named Raeburn's arrangers as the influence for the Sauter Finegan sound. Ellington used to fund the Raeburn band in it's hard times because he admired so much his work.
I commend you on your historical knowledge of what was going on then. However, you must have to lend an ear to those that were involved with the actual bands. Remember, David Allyn actually sang with Kenton for a stint, but never recorded with him. If you wish, I can engage him into this, verbally at least, he isn't a computer guy as of yet. LOL
Just in case you guys didn't know, June Christy also sang with Raeburn. Hey, there was another band very influenced by Raeburn, Earl Spencer. He also housed a bunch of future Kenton sidemen. I would love to send you guys a copy of the IARJRC Raeburn convention video, taped in the early 90's.
yes, indeed! You're right. And if you guys want to read more about June Christy's way from Raeburn to Kenton - there's an Anita O' Day version of the story in O'Day's autobiography.
At last Spencer's recordings are available on CD. Listen to it!
And more interesting stories about Raeburn's orchestra you'll find in Ira Gitler's "Swing To Bop. An oral history of the transition in jazz in the 1940s" (But I'm sure most of you guys already know that book.)
My only criticism is the lack of reference to David Allyn. This strikes me as odd. He is certainly associated with Raeburn more than most of the other people named. To be forgotten in a documentary about a forgotten big band is pretty tragic.
I hate to admit it, but the only reason I didn't include David Allyn is that I couldn't find even a single image of him! If anyone has pics of him, please send them to astrobeej(at)strafe(dot)com and I'll add him in!
Amazing! I can't find one photograph of him on the internet or in my collection either! All I could find is an album cover from a not so great late period album. Oh well. Regardless, well done and thanks for getting the Raeburn name out there again! One of my all time favorites! If I come up with anything I'll be sure to send it to you.
I have to agree with the great documentary. Boyd Raeburn cou´ld´ve been one of the biggest. However he will always be one of the best band leaders. His version of "Speaklow" is one of my favourite jazztunes ever!
Thank you so much for posting this awesome high quality production about this great band leader and his outstanding orchestra! Lots of pictures I've never seen before, thank you! I have always been a fan of Raeburn and his music and listen to every recording I can get. Boyd Raeburn's recording of "How High The Moon", especially Ginnie Powells cool singing on that recording, is one of the best "How High The Moon" versions ever!
Thanks for this!! Came across it while looking for Ginnie Powell recordings.
ogwen123 1 year ago
i like raeburn but i think that billy eckstine's, dizzy gillespie's and even (ulp!) stan kenton's big bands deserve more credit for being ahead of their time than raeburn. though raeburn certainly is entitled to more than the mere footnote he's been relegated to.
jazzmonster123 3 years ago
What a find this is ! Great job on one of the most progressive big bands that could swing like hell thanks to the great Jackie Mills.What happened to the book that McKinney was writing on Boyd? p.s. Not a word about him on the Ken Burns' "Jazz".
CDSJAZZ 3 years ago
This is a really nice overview of Boyd Raeburn's great band. Everyone is influenced by others, but Raeburn had his own style, especially with the double reeds. He was indeed a man ahead of his time. That bass sax sounded great on the bottom of the saxes!
mensalicious 3 years ago
I agree that Sauter and those were writing already. However, they grew in time, as Mandel did after writing with Raeburn when he was only 16 years old. The question isn't who came first, but who made the inroads as a band leader with this style of arranging. That's why it was being called new and innovative under his baton.
manishafan 3 years ago
Thanks so much for doing the film and posting it! Discovering Raeburn via some 78s that were part of a collection I bought in the 1990s really rocked my world—"Tonsilectomy"! "Dalvatore Sali!" That arrangement of "Over the Rainbow"! Crazy stuff!!
Eventually, I got to meet and hang with his son, Dr. Bruce Boyd Raeburn, while visiting New Orleans; a great and knowledgeable guy.
CrankedUpReallyHigh 3 years ago
I'm so glad you liked it! I don't know if folks around here know it, but I discovered Mr. Raeburn when looking for the soundtrack music for my noir mystery short "The Smiling Man." Boyd's music added the perfect tone for the movie. DVDs are available at TheSmilingMan (dot) com.
Astrobeej 3 years ago
Truly a great band, and this video is superb.
mrwra 4 years ago
Very true about David Allyn. He is still singing and doing many of these charts with his own big band. Kenton sent Rugolo to listen to George Handy's arrangements. That is the explanation for Kenton's success. Allyn is so underated it isn't funny. Sinatra was certainly influenced by him. Haymes as well.
manishafan 4 years ago
I agree completely. I think he is one of the most underrated singers in jazz. But the few who know him love him. I'd be interested to know why he wasn't mentioned. I smell politics!
rickygervais1776 4 years ago
He actually wrote an autibiography recently. I was the one that got him out of retirement in 1990 and put him in the Red Blazer in NYC with his big band.
manishafan 4 years ago
"Kenton sent Rugolo to listen to George Handy's arrangements. That is the explanation for Kenton's success." Wasn't Kenton playing Rugolo's adventurous "Opus A Dollar Three Eighty" in April '44 in California, a month before Handy joined Raeburn in New York?
JosephNScott 3 years ago
Those words didn't come from me, they came from a kenton musician. Raeburn had the arrangements that musicians wanted to play, that's why Roy Eldridge and Dizzy came to play with Boyd on several ocassions. Rugolo was highly influenced by the Raeburn sound of the mid 1940's. The greatest sounds of Kenton came post that period. I had this discussion with David Allyn and Jack McKinney several times. Johnny Mandel also agreed with us.
manishafan 3 years ago
"Those words didn't come from me, they came from a kenton musician." Which Kenton musician are you referring to? I don't doubt that Rugolo admired Handy a lot -- as of '46, or whenever -- but I'm interested in when he first became aware of Handy, and how much Finckel may have influenced Rugolo and others. During about the June '44 to May '45 period, when Roy and Diz both played with the band, and Bothwell was still in the band, the main guy writing adventurous scores for Raeburn was Finckel.
JosephNScott 3 years ago
That is partly true, but the impetus to this whole sound was the Tone Poem, pioneered by George Handy. You must speak with Allyn and Mandel on this. It isn't even an arguable point as to what the inspirations of the Kenton sounds were.
manishafan 3 years ago
"the Tone Poem, pioneered by[....]" Ellington, Sauter and others were writing works similar to the classical "tone poem" during the years just before Raeburn went adventurous. Anyway, I would suggest Bothwell leaving Raeburn as a useful chronological cutting off point, and I'd suggest that when Bothwell left the band, Finckel likely had had more overall influence on all adventurous big bands than Handy yet had, and that Kenton was already adventurous and already successful.
Best wishes.
JosephNScott 3 years ago
Actually, Eddie Sauter found Raeburn to be the great influence on his band in the 50's. You are set on Kenton not being influenced by anybody. Eddie Sauter also was one that early on found the Raeburn influence to be his impetus. I should send you the IAJRC tape where countless times there are stated first hand accounts of this influence. Whether it was Handy or Finckel, it doesn't matter. Best to you as well. I'll go with Mandel and countless other first hand accounts.
manishafan 3 years ago
"You are set on Kenton not being influenced by anybody." No. "Sauter also was one that early on found the Raeburn influence to be his impetus." Before Finckel or Handy was writing for Boyd, Sauter was a favored arranger for the most famous jazz band in the world ("Benny Rides Again," "Superman," "Clarinet A La King," etc.). "Whether it was Handy or Finckel, it doesn't matter." Both important, I'm interested how. Agree that DE admired and funded Boyd's work -- after DE wrote the likes of "Ko-Ko."
JosephNScott 3 years ago
I am glad that you mentioned Eddie Sauter. He was highly influenced by the Raeburn band and named Raeburn's arrangers as the influence for the Sauter Finegan sound. Ellington used to fund the Raeburn band in it's hard times because he admired so much his work.
manishafan 3 years ago
I commend you on your historical knowledge of what was going on then. However, you must have to lend an ear to those that were involved with the actual bands. Remember, David Allyn actually sang with Kenton for a stint, but never recorded with him. If you wish, I can engage him into this, verbally at least, he isn't a computer guy as of yet. LOL
manishafan 3 years ago
Just in case you guys didn't know, June Christy also sang with Raeburn. Hey, there was another band very influenced by Raeburn, Earl Spencer. He also housed a bunch of future Kenton sidemen. I would love to send you guys a copy of the IARJRC Raeburn convention video, taped in the early 90's.
manishafan 3 years ago
Hello, manishafan,
yes, indeed! You're right. And if you guys want to read more about June Christy's way from Raeburn to Kenton - there's an Anita O' Day version of the story in O'Day's autobiography.
At last Spencer's recordings are available on CD. Listen to it!
And more interesting stories about Raeburn's orchestra you'll find in Ira Gitler's "Swing To Bop. An oral history of the transition in jazz in the 1940s" (But I'm sure most of you guys already know that book.)
boppete 3 years ago
My only criticism is the lack of reference to David Allyn. This strikes me as odd. He is certainly associated with Raeburn more than most of the other people named. To be forgotten in a documentary about a forgotten big band is pretty tragic.
rickygervais1776 4 years ago
I hate to admit it, but the only reason I didn't include David Allyn is that I couldn't find even a single image of him! If anyone has pics of him, please send them to astrobeej(at)strafe(dot)com and I'll add him in!
Beej
Astrobeej 4 years ago
Amazing! I can't find one photograph of him on the internet or in my collection either! All I could find is an album cover from a not so great late period album. Oh well. Regardless, well done and thanks for getting the Raeburn name out there again! One of my all time favorites! If I come up with anything I'll be sure to send it to you.
rickygervais1776 4 years ago
I'll scan one in for you. I have a few, one with Raeburn and one from more recently.
manishafan 3 years ago
Tragically forgotten band. Thank you so much for posting this!
rickygervais1776 4 years ago
I have to agree with the great documentary. Boyd Raeburn cou´ld´ve been one of the biggest. However he will always be one of the best band leaders. His version of "Speaklow" is one of my favourite jazztunes ever!
develium 4 years ago
Thank you so much for posting this awesome high quality production about this great band leader and his outstanding orchestra! Lots of pictures I've never seen before, thank you! I have always been a fan of Raeburn and his music and listen to every recording I can get. Boyd Raeburn's recording of "How High The Moon", especially Ginnie Powells cool singing on that recording, is one of the best "How High The Moon" versions ever!
Greetings from Germany, bop-pete
boppete 4 years ago