Analogy as the Core of Cognition

[Qntkka]

 This would be awesome, if the video started with Doug Hafstadter, but, of course, every university interview like this MUST start wth a pompous ass who HAS to hear himself talk. This reminds me of church...and why I ended up an atheist. :)

[Megacaesar]

Heh. 0:44:12.

A particularly interesting explanation on human thought.

[Sanakreon]

I want to hear how he explains the act of planning with his "all of cognition is analogy" theory.

[Jan96106]

Creativity is the ability to see analogies in disparate things, as evidenced by the metaphysical poets who, as described by Johnson, yoke together heterogeneous images by violence in metaphysical conceits. When we nurture our ability to analogize, we develop our intellect and our creativity in whatever area of study we apply it to. Even the way science sees the world, as Kuhn has pointed out, is with ever-shifting analogy.

[healthconcious]

I like how much detail he brings into the presentation

[ZeusDeusEx]

I like the concept of a strange loop. But this talk, show how much he's wasting his time. Though for is own, and some other's amusement.

[thepenguin114]

@ZeusDeusEx Anything in the world could be a waste of time. It really depends on your frame of reference.

[ZeusDeusEx]

@thepenguin114 Oh, here comes the "everything could be X" argument again.

- Dont smoke crack cokain, it's poisonous! You can even die!

- There's a lot of stuff being poisonous in our everyday life. Salt for instance, increases your blood pressure. And I could get a satelite, comet och airplane in my head any second that kills me. Who knows when a rhino suddenly appears and smears me to a wall!

[thepenguin114]

@ZeusDeusEx I just meant that -he- is not wasting -his- time. He's doing what he loves. That's what makes it not a waste to him, in his frame of reference. Maybe not in yours, but that doesn't matter to him.

[weightlossguru123]

interesting

[DrFruedienslip]

Cognitive skill requires the capability within matching the physics of words to impressions of any and all experiences' "existentialism" get to the point if you can' its not the brain its the mind' people can be intimidated with other people making claims of accreditation when the fact remains that every mind uses the same intrinsic or natural principles of reasoning often misinterpreting the "sign" The mind is intangible often subjected to many illogical phrases of spiel and innuendo'

[DarkShroom]

so do we get to see the less formal next day?

[DarkShroom]

omg Hofstadter , i am gonna have to rewatch this, it's incredible actually as I find GEB difficult at times this really helps, really thanks for existing :)

[Nintencrow]

@Xerotaerg Oh come on. All the important politics, the greatest part of economy and most exports are from England, not Scotland, Ireland or Wales. Stop being so stuck up about it.

[TheMidnighters34]

I wish I had an extra set have hands, so I could give this video FOUR THUMBS DOWN!!

[Nintencrow]

@TheMidnighters34 bad troll, no cookie.It's a university lecture by a clever dude who talks about analogies and cognition, what's NOT to like?

[TheMidnighters34]

@Nintencrow Haha, sorry, my Macroeconomics teacher made me watch this and I was annoyed so I thought I'd throw in a Chappelle's Show reference

[plutoend99]

On his wikipedia page it says he is he has no interest in computers or computer science...a philosopher of the mind that has no interest in technology that could replicate the mind ??? bizzare

[DarkShroom]

@plutoend99 this man is about so much more than computers that it's dagnerous to just lump him in, to "analagize" him as "oh he's an AI expert! that's what he's talking about", that's what he does not want,

he probabally sees that AI like he concieves it is just sooo far off in the future he may as well not bother wasting his time with computers (something that will become obsolete) and instead he tackles the real science like he's doing

[BoStevoD]

18:37 Condensation and metonymy, no? Freud, you sneaky fellow.

[Shuck1701]

5 people aren't a strange loop

[qigong1001]

I guess geniuses don't do powerpoint. Roger Penrose avoids it too...okay, back to the seminar.

[holycow818181]

@qigong1001 A professor of mine once said that that's how you tell the difference between a mathematician and a computer scientist: a computer scientist uses Powerpoint slides, while a mathematician writes the work down by hand.

[qigong1001]

@holycow818181 Thats interesting. Its almost like a status thing to Not use powerpoint by science/math guys. And your professor is right! Computer geeks often fall into the powerpoint trap. They (okay, not all) use too many slides and don't really get to the "point". Doctors too! Come to think of it, most professional groups overuse it! I guess doing it by hand, or on the fly prevents that.

[danogzilla]

my poor careenium.

[mastaizitto]

absolutely genial! This ideas will change quickly our vision of the world and the approce we have to sciences

[sagitarian000028]

(Y)

[GelandnaleG]

3:15am Saturday (CST) - Time in M

[pietrolunz]

I'm totally in love with this guy

[orcishgod]

@pietrolunz thats exactly how i feel

[speakingeye]

sounds very much as if he's making distinctions between global and sequential thinking. 

[MetalMilitia1811]

these guys scare me

[revengeonseattle]

HOW ABOUT SHIT THE FUCK UP YOU SELF IMPORTANT BASTARD AND LET THE DUDE GET ON WITH THE LECTURE.

[phnixlady]

Analogy rocks. I guess everyone is not able to process analogies well, my BF is one of these, but she can build computers and remember abstract concepts word-for-word! I learn best from analogy, allegory, etc. Thanks for this interesting subject matter.

[GregFox100]

Those of us who want to bring the arts closer to the sciences are put off by the unjustified hostility that Hofstadter delights in showing so often (''Milton Babbitt is no Mozart'').

This said, the focus on analogy rather than content in a vacuum is very important for cognition and for creativity in an arts context. 9/10 for content, where the lost point is for the philistinism.

[raydot]

I've spent a lot of my life struggling with GEB. One thing that strikes me about GEB, SL, and this vid is this: While Hofstadter is clearly an amazing thinker, the whole never quite seems to be the sum of its parts. The MU theorem, for instance. It seems that throughout that entire analogy he never quite makes the point he's making. He always almost makes it, but never quite makes it. And that's the whole problem I have with his work. Having said that, I'd love to work with him!

[likeprestige]

@raydot So you can connect his apparently obvious loose ends into someone more 'square' like?

[CosmicDamian]

@raydot I'd love to work with him too. You could be his muse with interesting tidbits you got from observing your own thinking process, and stay on the gravy train quite easily. I certainly haven't earned the right to be so critical, but I wasn't that impressed, perhaps for the same reason you mention. Perhaps the ability to observe analogical thinking at all is evidence that analogy isn't the core of cognition, or at least not consciousness, which is I think the more interesting phenomenon.

[bennieee]

If anyone else wants to skip the intros, Hofstadter comes on at 13:30

[polymath7]

.See what I mean?

[mauzbaer]

excellent talk. but it amazes me how he gets around mentioning Freud, especially when he seems to present the Freudian Slips as his own concept. after all, this concept is from 1901.

[1888junkteam]

excellent work!

[ljanardhan]

Great Talk! But I wonder why he didn't chose to call them patterns?!

[chichiribichi]

maybe patterns are homologous not analogous

[calinwfraser]

In his publications (i.e., GEB and more recently "I am a Strange Loop") he does give some credit claiming there is a "similarity in spirit" between his and Freud's work.

[orcishgod]

@calinwfraser except freud can suck my balls

[kianatehrani]

Touché.

[hymnofashes]

@jboxo

Anti-intellectualism.

We need that becuase people are generally too smart.

[Nintencrow]

@hymnofashes That's such bullshit.

[bdeaner]

The conception of associations as the means by which sensations become perceptions can be traced to the British Empiricists. But the linkage of associations with structures in language -- analogies -- is I believe likely original to psychodynamic psychology -- Freud and his followers. Nevertheless, yes, a good talk. But it irks me that Hofstadter does not give Freud credit where he is due on these points -- I think he is too afraid to 'associate' his work with Freud's. Pun intended.

[bdeaner]

Actually these ideas are not new. Freud's theory of association is basically the same principle: thought is built upon analogies, which connect or associate one idea with another. Hofstadter even steals the concept of parapraxis -- the Freudian slip -- without crediting Freud!

[tokotokotoko3]

I would also say that its kind of obvious that the basis of our thinking must be associations, so I think you're right, the idea cant be really new (I bet the Greeks already came up with it - they were always first ;)). But analogies are one step further I think - and its an excellent talk. I enjoyed it a lot.

[Nisstyre56]

@bdeaner Maybe the two theories are analogous?

[bdeaner]

@Nisstyre56

Haha -- that was good...