What's the issue with the voter ID stuff in Ohio's election bill?

[juscurious]

This is an idiotic Video. JFK became president in 1960 because of voter fraud in Illinois. We have hundreds of thousands if not millions of people voting illegally in the United States. The Democrats are against picture ID because they know full well that they are gonna get 90-something percent of the illegal votes. This could make a difference in a close election. You have to show picture ID to do just about everything today, so why not to prove who you say you are when you vote?

[williejenkins666]

Welfare benefits = BOOM! ID slapped on the table as quickly as possible. No problems in getting the ID when freebies are handed out.

Voting? Why do we need an ID?

Facts are dead people are on record voting and they vote overwhelmingly democrat.

[juscurious]

@williejenkins666 You are 100% correct. The Democrats are against voter ID because they know full well that they are gonna get 90-something percent of the illegal votes. Illegal voting benefits them and they like it. In a close election, illegal votes can make the difference. You need to show picture ID all the time today. So why is it discriminatory to prove who you are when you vote? It isn't of course. No, illegal voting helps the Democrats, that's why they are not concerned about it..

[woodchucko]

Wrong! 46 states have had incidences of voter fraud in the last 10 years. It's not a conspiracy and you can obtain a photo ID for $0 if you are not able to pay for it. Poor citizens are not able to receive social services without an ID. The fact is, is that the Democrats politicize this and who knows what malicious intent there is but......The majority of people who don't take the time and haven't organized their life enough to get an ID: aren't really interested in voting ANYWAY!!!!!

[sea420dog420]

you should really know what you are talking about Acorn was a big part in voter fraud, that why the FBI check them out.. and even if you are poor you need and gov ID to cash a check . love how you made this a race issue..

[gotyourtongue]

It takes the same effort to get out and vote as it does to get out and obtain a photo I.D. So if you are unable to go get an I.D. how would you be able to go vote? That really is about the lamest excuse I've ever heard.

Voting is a right as an American citizen but it is also a serious responsibility. If you are a legal citizen of the USA and are not responsible enough to obtain and keep an up to date photo identification your ability to cast a responsible and valid vote is highly questionable

[all2human]

and IceCold--when you say "more so class"--are you okay with that? Personally, I think all citizens should be able to vote, regardless of income or class status. But if that's what's behind this, why not just come out and advocate a property/income requirement for voting? Why hide behind a made-up boogeyman of voter fraud? O, could it be because a lot of poor whites vote Republican?

[ICECOLD1972]

@all2human Im sorry, where do I say "more so class" I also believe that all citizens should be able to vote, no matter what income or class status. The key word in that statement is CITIZENS, Like I said before, you need an ID to do lots of things that are not as important as voting, why would anyone be against showing an ID to show the vote is free of fraud.

[all2human]

@ICECOLD1972 --my apologies, really. On the computer I was on before it really looked like you were the one making that comment. Really--enough so that I'd even double-checked before posting.Which is why I'd said I might be confused--I didn't think it fit in with your overall argument. But you haven't answered any of my actual arguments . . .

[all2human]

IceCold, my arguments, continued : 1) there is no evidence that voter fraud is a problem, 2) so why pass new laws and spend $ on this boogeyman (unless your position is that you want more bureaucracy and spending??), and 3) the bill's original address requirements as well as ALEC authorship show what's really behind this: a cheap political tactic to weed out voters likely to oppose OTHER ALEC bills on more important issues. But if you have evidence voter fraud is the real problem. show me.

[all2human]

@ICECOLD1972--when you ask "why would anyone be against showing an ID to show the vote is free of fraud," here's my answer. Why do you want the gov't to pass more laws and spend more money on a problem that it can't even show is a problem? Please don't tell me you're the one for "big gov't" in this debate. But you're the one who suggested "when someone registered to vote, they got a free voter ID card right away," so maybe you are. I myself would rather my taxes go to dealing with real stuff.

[ICECOLD1972]

@all2human I agree I am not for more gov't, and I understand your argument, but really, who does not have any kind of ID these days. Also, and I might be wrong, dont you need ID to register to vote. If thats the case, then you should be able to show that ID when you show up at the polls. The free ID card was just a thought on how to solve this issue but i am not in love with it. Also, i do think that my examples show voter fraud. Those are the ones they caught, they dont catch everything.

[all2human]

um, no your ACORN example showed an increased focus on voter registration gave some an incentive to fill out registrations with absurd names--not that any fraud occurred, much less enough to justify new laws. When I was in grad school, I could register with SSN and utility bill (I didn't get a driver's license till I was 32 so for me to have to get a photo ID would have at times been a burden, which is why I care). But you keep ignoring main point--show me that this bill wasn't crafted by ALEC?

[ICECOLD1972]

@all2human I have to admit, i dont know anything about ALEC and I will have to look it up. But what kind of burden does it put on a person to get ID. I have had an ID since I was 16 and have had to show ID for lots of less important things then voting, that is my main point. What is more important, voting or buying Beer?

[all2human]

@ICECOLD1972 --yes, maybe you should look that up. What kind of burden? It might depend on a particular state's requirements (and I admit I'm not from Ohio so I'm not claiming to know this bill's details-but I do live in GA where similar legislation has been proposed). In my personal experience--when I was a full-time student also working 40+ hours a week with no car (and no license) it would have been hard and costly to get to a DMV. At times I did have a state-issued photo ID, but from . . .

[all2human]

@ICECOLD1972 (continued) ... from the state that was my permanent residence (i.e., my parents' home, an address I needed to keep current to receive financial aid). I've lived in states where the only way to get a photo id was to turn over IDs from other states. As a student receiving financial aid, I could not always do that. I never drank alcohol till I was 19, but even then I didn't need ID for that because I always had a boy willing to buy for me. But a boy's voting for me--would be fraud.

[ICECOLD1972]

@all2human When I was in college, & it was a few years ago, i went to class at night and i worked between 40-60 hours a week to pay for it and still had time and money to get my ID and to vote. By the way, a boy buying alcohol for you is still against the law just like voting for someone else is. I still say it is more important to get the vote right & protect that right for every citizen.

[all2human]

@ICECOLD1972 the description of the video indicates that the current address requirement has been dropped from the bill. That is good, but the fact that it was ever there at all suggests that the bill was crafted more to create obstacles for voters of certain demographics (e.g., students and young voters who change apartments often) than to deal with some mythic voter fraud problem. Students can drive (and buy beer) with out-of-state licenses. This bill began with a tougher rule for voting.

[all2human]

Also, those ACORN people were just making up registrations so they could get paid for registering more people. It's not that they were giving those cards to people to use.

[all2human]

That the original bill said ID address had to match voter registration shows the bill was crafted to minimize the number of voters based on ideology and not just on race, or even class. Polls show young voters, particularly students, tend to vote Democrat, etc. This is also a group that changes addresses often or isn't living where registered. I'm white, a born-citizen, and  relatively affluent, but was a full-time student till I was 32. My address on my ID was not current most of that time.

[all2human]

Also, I don't think the point is that anyone behind the law is racist. Maybe I'm confused, but IceCold's point that it has more to do with class seems to be in the original video. The point isn't that anyone doesn't want to keep people from voting simply because of race, etc. It's because polls consistently show that certain demographics do in fact tend to vote against the candidates who propose the other bills that ALEC writes. The ID bill is just a preemptive tactic to minimize the opposition

[all2human]

IceCold's ACORN example doesn't show voter fraud is a problem; in fact some would say it proves the opposite. Although some ACORN members committed fraud by making fake cards, there is NO evidence that anyone actually voted using those cards. The ACORN convictions suggest that attempts at fraud are caught and punished, not that fraud occurs. And if attempted fraud is already detected and prevented before it happens, why pass more laws and/or waste taxpayers' money on a new system.

[ICECOLD1972]

What a bout Acorns history of voter fraud. 1986 in Missouri 12 Acorn member were convicted of voter fraud. 2006 St Louis, 1492 potentially fraudlent voter cards were turned in by Acorn. 2006 35000 questionable voter card were turned in by acorn in Missouri. 2007 Kansas City, 8 Acorn members pled guilty to submitting bogus voter reg cards. I found this in a few minutes, I am sure there are many more.

[ICECOLD1972]

Lets say there is not a problem with voter fraud,. You need to prove who you are to get on a plane, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to get into a club, to gamble, get married, buy a pet, rent an apartment, get a job, to fish, to hunt, among many other things. These thngs, in my opinion are not as important as voting, yet when voting no ID is required. Please explain why you think the other things are more important then voting?

[ICECOLD1972]

You also make a lot of statements like, "the fact is" "everyone knows" but dont support your statements with facts.  If you want to change poeples minds, empty statements dont do it, support your statements with facts please.

[ICECOLD1972]

If they said that they only want "some" american to vote, please give me some links to prove that. Also, you brought up the race is when you said those people that will have a harder time being able to vote are "students, poor people, black folk & latinos" What would you say if when someone registered to vote, they got a free voter ID card right away? Would that not sold the problem. When they move they could just fill out a form on-line to get an address change to the card. Why not?

[aliyaonthedecks]

@ICECOLD1972 again, i think it's important to identify that there is actually a problem that needs to be solved before we talk about solutions to that problem, especially if those solutions use a lot of public resources/funds (issuing cards does this) and potentially make some folks' lives more difficult. that is the point of this video - that we have to back up from thinking about how to solve "voter fraud" and first think about whether that is actually a real problem fueling this legislation.

[aliyaonthedecks]

i would be willing to entertain a conversation about solutions if we can first show that we have a problem. do you have facts--as you are asking of me--to prove that voter fraud is a significant problem, one worth spending lots of resources either on the part of the government or on the part of the 11% of the state that does not have a valid photo ID? all of us need to support our statements before calling others' empty.

[ICECOLD1972]

OK, i looked it up & watched it. He said nothing wrong or said nothing about not wanting American Citizens to vote. I dont want everyone to vote either, just American Citizens that are eligible to vote. The Libs are making this into a racial issue just like they do everything else. Look what Sheila Jackson Lee said about the debt issue going on right now. If you Libs keep throwing around the word racist, is does and has lost its impact and you are hurting people that are facing true racism.

[aliyaonthedecks]

@ICECOLD1972 Ah, now I understand what you are concerned about. This is about citizenship for you, yes? If so then Weyrich (and other ALEC folks) and you would disagree. Whereas you are saying that you only want American citizens to vote, they have said over the years that they only want some American citizens to vote. It is not necessarily about race - moreso class. At least, I think that's a more useful way to think about it.

[aliyaonthedecks]

I would also like to just suggest that for the sake of useful dialogue, we move on from the complaints about liberals and racism. i am not a liberal, and i note that you are the only person on the page (video or comments) "throwing around the word racist." you're right, this is not (just) a racial issue. it is a power issue, and that impacts much more than just race. class, disability, and age are just as much issues in the voter ID debate.

[ICECOLD1972]

Excuses, Excuses. The rule of law and fair elections mean nothing to the Liberals. I know I will be called a racist for saying this. But Racist is the new code word for "I have no other argument" to Liberals

[aliyaonthedecks]

@ICECOLD1972 i encourage you to become more educated on this issue. this is not a matter of individual racist attitudes. this is a matter of structural effects. voter fraud simply is not a significant problem, and there is no compelling body of data to say that it is. what we now know is true is that these voter ID bills were drafted through the work of the American Legislative Exchange Council.

[aliyaonthedecks]

@ICECOLD1972 if you look up paul weyrich's "i don't want everybody to vote" speech here on youtube, you can see what the founder of that group (who wrote the voter ID bills) has to say about voting. nothing to do with voter fraud.