C.S. Lewis was also an atheist before he became a Christian. He's written a ton of books. You might know him as the author of the Chronicles of Narnia books :)
@opie1kanobie You say Jesus, the Muslims think Mohammed is a kick ass prophet, the Indians think Ganesha is a kick ass God. If you were born in Pakistan you would be saying Allah is a kick ass God. Atheism is the fastest growing religion (or nonreligion if you like) so people are finally starting to wake up and think for themselves. Islam is the second fastest growing religion. Looks like Mohammed kicks ass more than Jesus.
@Jshect May wanna check that...Christianity is the third most pratcticed religion in the world. And they only say "Christianity" in regards to people who call themselves "Christians" rather than "Catholics" or what not. Just sayin that you may wanna check the stats on that.
@Jshect In addition, many people who claim to be Atheists really aren't becuase they don't really believe everything an Atheist does. Atheism isn't the sole belief of there being no creator. More rather, that is the belief of an Agnostic (derived from Greek meaning "no knowledge"). Atheism does mean "no God," but there are many other practices and beliefs that real Atheists have that many don't. If you simply don't know and don't care to know, then you're most likely an Agnostic.
@pyromancer1987 You are not reading what I said correctly. I said Atheism is the "fastest growing" non religion and Islam is second. I didn't say most practiced, I said fastest growing. You are also convenietly putting words in my mouth that "I don't know and don't care" if god is real. You obviously don't know much about atheism.We don't practice this or that, we are simply saying there is not sufficient evidence that a god/gods exists. If real, substatiated evidence were presented to us and
@pyromancer1987 and the evidence was credible and could be observed by other people in an as objective manner as posible, we would believe. You seem to think atheists don't care about anything and you are wrong. We care just as much, or more, as everyone else, it is just that we value evidence. Evidence is, sadly, something that is underappreciated, and without it people are likely to believe all sorts of things: magic, tarrot cards, astrology, mind reading, politicians' promises, and religion.
@Jshect I have a lot of respect for you because you know what you believe and because you back up those beliefs, and I truly wish more Christians were like you in the way they back up their beliefs. I do wish that you would also consider reading a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroble. He was an Atheist searching for a way to disprove Christianity and in the process he found evidence that pushed him to believe that there must be a divine creator. Maybe it will give you some evidence.
@pyromancer1987 And you really don't understand atheism. It is not a religion so there are no shared practices, customs, or beliefs. We do not believe there is no god, we simply say there is no evidence. That is the only thing all atheists have in common. If you are confused about this I would suggest watching youtube videos of "The Atheist Experience," or read a book by or watch a video by richard dawkins, sam harris or Christopher Hitchens. "God the failed hypotheses" is a good book.
@Jshect But dud, just one question. if the song rocks but the lyrics are stupid (to you of course) because you are an atheist, how could you like it? Btw they do Rock!!!!!!!!!!
@jordanhieber1 You can like the way a song sounds, musically, and still not like the lyrics. How many songs have you heard on the radio an you like them but you don't even no what the lyrics are or the lyrics are really stupid, like about getting money and big booty hoes, but still think it's a catchy song anyway.
LOVE THESE MEN THEY ARE ANOINTED I AM A SOUL WOMAN BUT EACH CORD OF WHAT THE ELECTRICAL INSTRUMENT THE MUSIC MESSAGE HELLO GOD I LOVE YOU PLEASE BLESS THESE PEOPLE IN JESUS NAME
This band was my absolute favorite band at the time, and I'm now an atheist and listening to this music... it's still fun ... but I grew up mentally and musically :P ... if they ever got together for a reunion ... I'd be right there sining EVERY Lyric :P
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Attention Religious Zealots: I am done responding in this forum. I just don't have the time anymore. If anyone wants a clearer explanation, feel free to read the note on my profile page.
Here's hoping the majority of you learn to be more than just fools for the oldest con in the world.
pull your head out of your self righteous butt rick. i like how you put down every believer, and then freak out if a christian tells you to shut up, what a joke. you are so cool rick, such a rebel. don't even try to pull the "well thats not very christian of you" bs. you need to wake up and realize that your beliefs are just as silly as our beliefs. prove the big bang rick, prove it, you can't, therefore everything you believe is WRONG. you see where im getting at?
There are people out there who do try to live according to the Bible rick, I'm sorry if all you've met are hypocrites. I've made my share of mistakes in life and I don't pretend to hide them, I ask forgiveness from both God and the people I wrong. But people have also been killed/ostracized for not being German, although a travesty, I don't try to convince people that Darwinism (not atheism) is wrong. What is it you seek from your fellow youtubers?
Hi, Rahl... No need to apologize on behalf of hypocrites. That is their burden, not yours.
I am tired of watching religion addle minds with false promises & outright lies, incite horrific acts of bigotry & sexism & violence, and limit humanity's intellectual progress. I am here to confront religious adherents regarding the fictional nature of their beliefs.
Too much time, too much money, and too many brain cells are at stake.
The reason for trolling on Christian related forums: The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable -Kevin Max
What is it that you wish to find, or who do you wish to convince? People have been killed/ostracized for believing and not believing.
Alright, Christian adherents, I understand your desire to change the character "Jesus'" claim that he will return during "this generation's" lifespan to mean all of humanity... but what about "his" reference to the flood story as incentive - a story proven by geologists to have NEVER happened?
practically, but not essentially. Different religions have completely different gods. Buddha, for instance is nowhere even close to The Trinity known as God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. different primal gods such as ones conjugated by indian tribes consider the sun, moon, and even weather patterns to be gods.
Only the Holy Spirit can reach people like you. There are several things that point to God and His existence...nature and its perfect balance, the way we were created, etc. The Dead Sea scrolls, history, prophecies-all prove that the Bible is true. People like you don't want to believe so nothing that either me or anyone else can say will convince you; only God can do that. I will pray for you. Also, if you believe that Christians are deceived, why are you even looking at this video?
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ash: What a load of garbage.
There's a reason the "god" you believe exists has never been proven to be real. It does NOT exist.
Think for a moment - if you were a "god" would you REALLY leave the teaching of your existence in the hands of people who didn't know bats weren't birds, that animal sacrifices have no effect on leprosy, and didn't all know the world was a spehre as opposed to flat?
the reason why God lets us decide whether or not we want to believe in him is because the nature of God is love and love never forces itself on another. It just loves you and waits patiently for your response. God is love!
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Your comment is written as if you know what "god" thinks. Never mind the fact that no one has ever proven a "god" exists - what makes you know you KNOW what such a being would want?
The "god" you believe in calls bats BIRDS in Deuteronomy & Leviticus, states animal sacrifices are somehow useful with regard to helping a sufferer of leprosy, and refers to Earth using carpentry terms that describe things which are flat.
sloppy: Sorry, but you're quite wrong. I've been through this with people who deal with the Hebrew version. The original word is owph, which means "bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings)."
The next time you respond to me, please at least try to know what you're referring to.
Did you REALLY just claim the "bible" is never wrong?
Explain why it describes a catastrophic flood which geologists proved has NEVER happened.
youre taking the word of someone else just as he is. Catastrophic flood didnt happen? Isn't that how ocean sedimentary found its way to the top of Everest?
Bill: I'm hardly taking the word of one person. The majority of the scientific community agrees there was no flood as described in the "bible." Also, Mesopotamian & Egyptian cultures have been dated to be older than the supposed time of the flood. Not a word from them about it, and ancient Egyptians were notoriously good at keeping track of events both fortuitous and negative.
you have to consider that the person that wrote down the story of the flood lived at this certain area that is described. so there might have been a flood in israel. but who says that there was a flood in egypt, too? no one.
same thing with evolution. i myself believe in evolution.
i think it is possible that we developed over time and got some "updates". maybe god gave them to us. but still i believe that humans where and still are created by god.
OS: I don't HAVE to consider any such thing. Besides, let's look at the can of worms you've opened...
IF the "great flood" as described in the "bible" was just a tiny one exaggerated, then why would "god" go through the rigamarole of stating "he" was unhappy with what "he" created and have Noah save ALL the (presumably) land-based animals for what would have been a one to two day trip?
That story makes even LESS sense.
Believe what you like, but that doesn't make your belief fact.
Rick, why are you preaching so much? Why do you feel so strongly about this? If Christianity offends you, maybe you should just steer clear of it and comment on some secular music videos ;)
Lets keep this back and forward crap off youtube people!
mooch: I can't remember why I first came to this forum, maybe someone sent me a link. At any rate, it is areas such as this which on the surface may seem harmless but are where the true nature of the insidiousness of religion hides.
This is a public place. You and others are proclaiming an invisible "man" in the sky loves you and are trying to convince others to start or continue believing such a thing.
There is none. This is why it's called religion. you cant proove any religion.
but still christians are sure that jesus exists because they have experienced him in their lives, everyone in his/her own way. This is why each relationship betwenn each christian and jesus is special and unique.
I do believe that Jesus exists and loves me because ive prayed for different things and they came true how only a god could have done it. this is when i new jesus loves me. btw. he loves you, too. god bless
OS: Not one person who claims they felt "Jesus" can be trusted to be telling the truth. As a matter of fact, people get the same feeling described by religious adherents as those who attend rock concerts.
Name one thing you've prayed for which came true which could ONLY be the result of supernatural influence.
Rick: You could ask an inumerable amout of people about the theology of Christianity. Most will say it's a load of crap and they scoff at it, and never think about it again. However, some people believe that Christ is their Lord and Savior. You don't have to if you don't want to, but you should shut up when it comes to a person's religion. If you want to discuss Christ, let's try to keep it in a somewhat civil way. Thanks. :)
Freak: How DARE you tell me to shut up! This kind of thing is EXACTLY why I am in this public forum.
For centuries, people have been ostracized and/or killed for disagreeing with religious leaders. I understand that you think the entire world was made with you in mind, but that does NOT mean I have to agree, and it does NOT mean I have to give you any special treatment when you make such claims in public.
Faith is not truth, and trying to shut me up for disagreeing is incredibly uncivil.
Rick: I'm sorry for telling you to shut up, that was inappropriate and childish. But, there WILL be a time in your life where what your doing will no longer work for you, and at that point you should talk to someone that you trust that will give objective counsel. Please don't pursue this unless you have a genuine concern on the topic.
Nessie: Do tell, Nostradamus.... how, exactly, do you claim to know what will and won't work in my life? Upon what do you base your very unfounded precidtion? And who do you think you are to tell me that I do not have a genuine concern for the well-being of people who are suckers for the oldest con in the world?
Mahjoun: We're not discussing a journalist or a political dissident who needs to hid his or her identify in order to express opinions which may put them in danger. We're referring to a regular schlub on YouTube.
Please look up the word deceit in the dictionary. That should explain it.
explain how 'SaveNessie95' or 'JesusFreak9525' shows deceit. (s)he definitely immediately explained his(her) identity, so i don't see how (s)he is misleading anyone.
Chantal: I don't take orders from religious zealots. FYI.
And as well you shouldnt. You might want to consider that human beings are the ones that have fucked everything up. With respect to how you have decided to live your life please dont pigeon hole every christian into being a complete irrational idiot. Maybe you dont but your comments say otherwise.
jay: I'm not asking people to be perfect. This is hardly the first religious person I've encountered on YouTube with multiple accounts. One guy turned out to have FIVE. Ever try discussing religion with FIVE versions of the same person?
There is a reference in Genesis that the world was created a sphere. And why are you hypothetically assuming that if you or I were a "god", with the smidget of intellect we have, why would we know exactly whats best to do with the world, time and eternity.
Bill: Which version of the "bible" are you using? The word is clearly circle, not sphere - even in the original Hebrew text. During the time the "bible" was written, many believed Earth to be a flat circle.
I hope you learn to find out that no human being can personally bring anyone to Christ. Period. Maybe the reason people aren't changing when you want them to is because you're trying to do the change instead of letting the Holy Spirit do it.
another who could draw it backwards (28. Canestrini quotes Hyrtl. ('Annuario della Soc. dei Naturalisti,' Modena, 1867, p. 97) to the same effect.); and from what one of these persons told me, it is probable that most of us, by often touching our ears, and thus directing our attention towards them, could recover some power of movement by repeated trials.
Your claim about the tailbone is idiotic. In fact, occasionally children are born with vestigal tails.
Look at your intestines; they would function much better if you walked on all fours. Look at the way your eyes work; a flawed "design" if there ever was one. Of course, the reason is that there was no "designer."
Both Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain passages in which the fictional character "god" refers to bats as part of a list of fowl. A "god" should know better.
Actually the eye proves that there is in fact a designer. If you don't believe me, go look up what the tail bone does on a medical website. How would my intestines function better? Evolution teaches that walking upright is an advancement. So then are we de-evolutionizing? Your arguments are really quite foolish.
By the way...what reference in Leviticus and Deuteronomy? I challenge you to find it.
ae: You're extremely ignorant about the way our eyes work. Try this:
(youtube . com ) watch?v=pcnCJqDa1us
The fact is, if you walked on all fours your intestines would hang in a manner that would make their work more efficient. Think about it.
The only reason you think my arguments are foolish is because you are not using reason. You're attempting to defend your very indefensible religious beliefs and eschewing logic in order to do so.
The problem is not one of biological classification but of semantics and translation. The Hebrew word in Leviticus 11:13-25 is "oph". In the similar passage Deuteronomy 14:11-20 the word is "psippor" in verse 11 and "oph" in 19-20. Neither word completely corresponds to the English "bird" or "fowl". "Tsippor" is used of birds and bats. "Oph" also refers to birds and bats. If we translate "oph" and "tsippor" as "flying creatures" or "winged creatures" the skeptics complaint is answered.
I find it comical though that somehow I'm the deluded liar when in fact you're the one who came to a Christian video to leave comments on how things are so wrong. Seems like you're trying to spread misinformation. Kind of reminds me of the baptist church in Kansas who bombards military funerals to tell them they're going to hell and they're wrong. I sense the same hatefulness coming from you. But I've said enough.
YOU claim an invisible "god" which has never been proven to be real loves you.
I do not.
That makes you the liar here. Nothing comical about that at all.
I have expressed no hate here. People like you just like to pretend you're persecuted. No one's being fed to lions or torn apart for religion here... you're just being reminded that you base part of your life on fictional lies.
You're referring to Fred Phelps. That guy is a nutjob.
Very good yes I am. And I in no way compare this to true persecution. I could care less if you like me for what I am. But the point I am trying to make is that if you can't confess that you've been rather hateful then I have no more reason to talk to you. As for my claim to an invisible God which has never been proven to be real loving you, in what way does that make me a liar? Since He has never been proven to be fake? Your claims require as much faith as mine to believe.
If someone tells you an invisible goat circles the sun and you pass that information along without verifying it that makes you a liar by proxy. And, since you are smart enough to know that much of the "bible" has been debunked and/or identified as patently untrue, you are engaging in self-deception by pretending otherwise.
It is impossible for fictional characters to show themselves.
You deal in fantasy. I deal in proof and evidence.
No you deal with your own fantasy of what you want to to be true.
LOL if it makes you feel better "I couldn't care less".
Really, you don't deal with evidence, you deal with one ideas and theories that you choose to believe. You are in no way approaching a logical or rational conclusion any different than anyone else. Neither have you demonstrated in your posts that you really care to hear anything anyone else has to say. But you don't mind bombarding us with your athiest agenda.
ae: I am under no delusions regarding the nature of the world we live in. You believe an invisible man LOVES you, and yet threatens you with everlasting torture upon death in a place which has never been proven real if you don't pretend to love "him" back. Utter ridiculousness.
It has nothing to do with my feelings. I was simply pointing out that you were using words wrong.
Your last paragraph is drivel.
Tell me, why don't you believe in the existence of Zeus or Horus or Krishna?
And regarding being "debunked" as you put it, you've still failed to hold an intelligible argument with me. All you did was throw a fit when I responded to your question. So apparently by your standards I'm not intelligent enough to know that. But really, it doesn't matter what you think because most of the people coming and reading this dialogue (if they so choose) will see your belligerent behavior on a you tube meant to minister to fellow christians and your words will fall on deaf ears.
Why? I am probably a more productive member in society than you are? As for why I do not believe in other gods is because no other religion has demonstrated the power that lies behind the truth. As well as the experience I had at my time of conversion. These other gods haven't offered up their lives for humanity, and they demand that a man have good works in order to receive a good judgment. The Bible teaches that a man is fallen and can in no wise redeem himself by his works.
ae: Subjective straw-man arguments are boring. It is impossible to know if either of us is more "productive" unless we do a side-by-side comparison of our accomplishments judged by an impartial party. Besides, you don't write in a very logical manner, so in that arena I've trumped you soundly.
You say "conversion" - I say delusion.
Can you prove the "god" you believe in really died for the "sin" said "god" supposedly put on humans in the first place?
What you think the "bible" teaches is laughable. The book also teaches that a man who rapes a woman must marry her and EVER be allowed to divorce. The "god" of the "bible" goes to great lengths in explaining how animals sacrifices will somehow cleanse the house of a leprosy sufferer. "He" also refers to the Earth as if flat. The "bible" also teaches that children who refuse to obey their parents should be stoned to death by the men of the city they live in. Not exactly a source of TRUTH.
You haven't triumphed soundly in any area of logic except in your own mind because you're both arrogant and foolish.
Then let me ask, what do you do to contribute to society? Then I will tell you what I do and then let the rest of the people be a judge (because I'm sure someone will read at least the latest comments). As for what you're referring to, that is also old testament law, which Christians do not practice because they were given for the benefit of the nation of Israel.
ae: What is it with religious fools and their desire to call people who DON'T believe an invisible man in the sky which has never been proven real LOVES them and has a PLAN for them?
You're projecting a trait you possess onto me.
I am not on trial here. Religion is. If you want a short biography, you'll have to wait for it to be finished. I've accomplished a lot in my forty-one years.
You're very wrong about the "old" law. The character Jesus SPECIFICALLY states "he" did not come to change the old laws, but to fulfill them. That means you must do what the "bible" says if you are a believer. So, that means the next time a person is cured of leprosy, "cleanse" him and his house with animal sacrifies. Kill children who do not behave. Play with deadly cobras and ingest hemlock since in Matthew it is said all believers can do such things safely.
Dude, fulfilling the law means accomplishing it to the extent where man cannot. The law is the 10 commandments established by God Himself to line up a man's heart in comparison to the law. The Old Testament law was made for the governing of Israel which is what Moses enacted on their behalf. Don't attempt to school me on the Bible and its interpretation.
ae: You do not know that at all. The book is not clear in any regard. Therefore, it must be taken at face value.
Besides, all that is just meandering. The "bible" is a book of fiction written by humans who wanted to control the minds (and wallets) of other humans. It is not divine at all, and an untrustworthy source of truth and decency.
You seem to need schooling regarding the "bible." Have you read it cover to cover? I have. Three times.
LOL congratulations should I be impressed? Yes actually I have. I continually read it daily and have for the last 6 years. And actually, yes I do know that. How much time did you really spend in the epistles of Hebrews, Galatians, and Romans? Shoot, how much time did you really spend analyzing the writings of Paul? Even Jesus made it clear that the laws of Moses were given on the account of people who were under the Old Testament.
ae: Smarm is not helping. I wasn't trying to impress you. I stated a simple fact.
I didn't calculate the time I spent reading it at the time I was doing so. It usually took an average of two months when I read it. I'm actually working on if a fourth time to support a parody version I'm developing.
I dare you to name ONE verse from the character "Jesus" which NEGATES any of the rules put forth in the Old Testamant.
I don't think Smarm is the correct word for my comment. Sarcasm would actually be a better fit.
First you must understand something, Jesus did not negate himself from the law of the old testament because it could not be fulfilled until His death. However, once His death was accomplished, the sacrifice to forgive man totally of his sin was fulfilled.
Also take into account what was mentioned in Hebrews regarding the old covenant. Read Acts 15 in the dispute of circumcision. The conclusion was that it was not a necessary proclamation of faith to be circumcised since spiritually we have had our hearts "circumcised". Your belief that christians must follow the old testament is what Paul refuted in his book written to the Galatians. Read up on "Judiazers" you might find some of the similar misunderstandings they had.
ae: You are VERY confused about what is in your "bible."
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven-Matthew 5:18-19
So, snap to it. Make women who are raped marry their attackers and such.
Again, in response to that. It was in reference to the 10 commandments, not the old covenant. I refuse to argue with you on this any further until you actually read the epistles Paul wrote. THEN we will talk about it. I'll continue on the issue of godless government until then.
Seems you're being the aggressor, since this is a christian music video, you KNEW there would be christians on here. So the first thing you did was come in and start running your mouth hoping to get someone to open their and I did.
ae: I make no bones about the fact that I am here to help religious suckers see their beliefs are based on idiocy, so they can learn to think and hopefully free themselves from the shackles of an untrue religion. Problem is, you're being irrational and unecessarily combative by trying to make the argument into something it is not.
An example of your lack of logic: NEITHER of us is using our MOUTHS in this discourse. At least, I know I'm not. Typing with your upper lip?
Can you not use common sense to realize that I was using a common saying? Do I need to be literal about everything? I think it's just an attempt to be critical.
And no, I'm not making the argument into something its not. I'm exposing you for what you are. The very things your claiming about Christianity is EXACTLY what you're beliefs are guilty of.
ae: You're right, I should have assumed that you didn't have the capacity to communicate your pitiful opinions without utilizing cliches and realized pointing that out would only cause you to be defensive about it. My bad.
If I had done the same and you had caught it, I would have laughed and stated you were right.
My beliefs are based on facts. Yours are based on misinformation and myth.
"... beliefs are guilty of?" How do you figure belief can be defined as a thing like guilty?
Probably not, you probably would have attempted to justify yourself because of a fear of seeming wrong which could lead me to think of your opinion as inferior.
hi. i'm a christian, and i think it is great, the way u have discussed about christianity with rick. what i'm really saying, is that i'm proud of u and for being a christian :D
smarm: speech related to behavior that is unctuously flattering, ingratiating
sarcasm: harsh or bitter derision or irony
..and, because most people get this one wrong, too...
irony: the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, How nice! when I said I had to work all weekend
I asked you to prove the character "Jesus" negated any of the rules put forth in the Old Testament. You did not.
You may consider your half-connected theories and whatever else your preacher crammed down your throat in order to get you to follow your cult's activities correctly identified as weaselling and based on distortions culled from a book which is little more than fiction designed by some humans to control the minds of other humans.
There's no such thing as an "atheist doctrine" - again, you're projecting the traits of your own mind onto me. If it weren't for the fact that people ran around claiming everyone must believe in their fairy-tale religion, the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" wouldn't even exist.
I was lucky enough to not be labelled like that until I was almost fourteen years old. A somewhat happier time, due to the fact that I didn't have to deal with hogwash. Now, I combat it by engaging nitwits like you.
Perhaps not a doctrine as to one regarding a set standard across the board. But yes, even you have doctrines. For instance, you teach that there is no God. That is a doctrine. You also teach (assuming) that morality is based upon society. That also is doctrine as well as humanism. Humanism IS in fact a religion. So are you saying humanism is on trial also?
You're attempting to claim I have an atheist doctrine. If it weren't for the fact that you insist a "god" which has never been proven real exists, I would not HAVE to tell you you're very misguided.
Of course morals are derived by society. Our ancestors figured it was probably best not to kill or rape each other on a regular basis if they planned to live in close proximity to one another. We still have a few deviants, but most agree.
That's fine, but regardless, you must be fair in trying humanism as a religion if you're lumping religion together. Let me ask, do you spend this much time debating with Muslims or Hindus? Or do only Christians get that privilege? As for being misguided, explain to me how having morality not to cheat on my wife, abuse my children, murder someone else, lie, steal, cheat, unfairly judge others, hate, and any other characteristics of a baser nature is being misguided?
ae: I must do no such thing. My focus here is the idiocy of the "bible." If you want to discuss humanism, find another forum.
I have debated Muslims. They usually end up proclaiming I will die in a horrible manner. I've never had an adherent of Hinduism claim I should join their cult under penalty of everlasting torture upon death.
I live in a society dominated by Christians. As such, that is my focus. If more people in the US were less likely to be fools for their fairy-tale cult, idiots like Sarah Palin would have less impact on humanity.
None of the morality you've described requires the "bible" for you to engage in it. Tell me, do you mean to infer that you'd be a useless barbarian if you didn't think a "god" would punish you for doing so?
If so, you're quite sociopathic and need mental help.
Well you could always move to China, they're communist there. Democracy is not an atheistic idea, socialism and communism are. However, our country is NOT dominated by Christians. All the time we are restricted on what we do while you're permitted to teach evolution in public schools. And you want to claim that it is dominated by Christians? That couldn't be further from the truth.
Actually I'm quite sane. So unless you have a degree in psychology, it would be best to keep quiet.
ae: Religious idiots always bring up communism and socialism (BTW, our police, schools, and fire departments are SOCIALIST... FYI). Please stop getting off-topic.
It doesn't take a degree to know that a person who claims he would rape and kill if he didn't have a "god" watching over him is in need of a mental evaluation. Perhaps you just wrote without thinking, and that's excusable, but I can't help but noticed you HAVEN'T said you DON'T need a "god" in order to be a decent person.-continued-
ae: Oh please. My money all has "IN GOD WE TRUST" on it. The Pledge of Allegiange had the bullshit line "Under God" inserted into it. Recent polls show Americans would vote a homosexual for President before an atheist.
I would be fine with having religion taught in schools under two conditions:
A) It is taught in an entirely impartial manner
B) ALL known religions and their origins are taught
Christians usually bristle at number two. Most want just their cult shoved in kids' heads.
LOL you think that because of those two things? Well, they've made laws to allow you to keep from saying "under God" if you don't want to, another product of a non-christian dominated government. If this were truly a Christian dominated government I can assure you things would be much different than they are now. What is in our government now is the result of many godless ambitious individuals who do what is right in their own eyes and take advantage of others.
Another point I'd like to bring up is that you have in no wise convinced me of a different truth in what I believe. You've also only affirmed my Faith and you've shown me that atheism has nothing to offer humanity except to make others miserable. Thank you for representing it as it truly is.
By the way, the fulfill the law meant to make it possible for man to fulfill it through Christ's sacrifice. Again, the laws that Moses gave were for the practice of the nation of Israel. The law that God gave was eternal and what was to be used to judge men. If you fulfill these 10 commandments, you fulfill the law. Romans says that love fulfills the law. I don't know why I'm even arguing with you about this. Your arguments regarding what Jesus did when He fulfilled the law are so futile.
ae: There's a huge problem with your comment. ALL of it is based on the "bible. Since the "bible" is fiction designed by ancient humans to control the minds of other humans, it is of no relevance to me.
Yeah, a perfect answer to cop your way out of being convinced of anything other than what you believe. It's quite evident your avoiding the fact that I am right. I think you're just trying to goad me on now.
ae: That's not a cop-out. I wouldn't discuss the merits of a stained-glass window in a building with a rotten foundation. Same goes with the "bible." You want to claim it's the truth, and yet that has been disproven time & time again by archaeologists, scientists, and historians.
Actually, I wouldn't mind at all if you decided to stop writing to me. I find your opinions quite cliche and jingoistic.
And again, I say that your evidence isn't evidence. It's just as unproven as my belief in the Bible. Your means of dating things are horrid. Therefore it boils down to belief in your evidence. Science cannot determine how something came to be, only that it exists. It can't even explain how electricity works. It can speculate with theories, but it cannot say "We know exactly how this works." There are theories and it seems to correlate with those theories, but it has not been physically proven.
It is a theory. It's not the point that I don't understand the theory and believe it, but if you can't admit that it is not proven then you have blind faith in your assumption. I sat through enough classes and every teacher I had affirmed that it is not proven, it's a theory and an explanation- probably the best we have, but it is still impossible to completely know.
It is a theory. You can measure it and you can see it, but the ways by which you can determine it works is still based on theory. For instance a Faraday cage is a theory. It is under the assumption that because the cage completes a circuit, what is in the middle of the cage will remain unharmed, yet it is still a theory. Yes it works, but it is still a theory. It's not fact.
AJ: Prove there is a "god" and I will believe in it. Otherwise, you're just spewing nonsense based upon an ancient book of fiction.
Besides, the "Lord?" Surely you realize the days of kings are long since past.
You DO realize the phrases "King of Kings" and "Lord of Lords" were invented so religious leaders could attempt to control political adversaries, yes?
Seriously you're only saying this for your own selfish "political control adversaries" Now go and spread your lies elsewhere we'd really rather not you straying strong believers
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
AJ: I didn't say your fairy-tale religion is the oldest. There are many which predate it... many, by the way, which the writers of the "bible" STOLE STORIES FROM.
You believe the first woman was made from a rib. I do not. That makes you the idiot.
Honestly I really don't care what you suspect. That's a matter of your opinion. Let me ask, what do you do for a career if this is a matter of intelligence? If you really think I am so stupid for believing in an eternal God, what do you do? I work on Satellite communications equipment for the government. Besides being a poor critic, what else do you do?
C.S. Lewis was also an atheist before he became a Christian. He's written a ton of books. You might know him as the author of the Chronicles of Narnia books :)
thetabright37 4 days ago in playlist YouTube Mix for dc Talk
I love Kevin's tambourine
MinecraftJesusFreak 6 months ago
@MinecraftJesusFreak I think that's Toby actually
pyromancer1987 3 weeks ago
I love dc talk, I am so grateful that I bought their casette Supernatural, to know that they make great music, what a privilege, God bless them!!!
icegirl71388 8 months ago
I'm an athiest but I still have to admit this is kick ass band
Jshect 8 months ago in playlist music rock 6
@Jshect Jesus is a kick butt God!
opie1kanobie 8 months ago in playlist 052011 - new list 3
@opie1kanobie You say Jesus, the Muslims think Mohammed is a kick ass prophet, the Indians think Ganesha is a kick ass God. If you were born in Pakistan you would be saying Allah is a kick ass God. Atheism is the fastest growing religion (or nonreligion if you like) so people are finally starting to wake up and think for themselves. Islam is the second fastest growing religion. Looks like Mohammed kicks ass more than Jesus.
Jshect 8 months ago
@Jshect May wanna check that...Christianity is the third most pratcticed religion in the world. And they only say "Christianity" in regards to people who call themselves "Christians" rather than "Catholics" or what not. Just sayin that you may wanna check the stats on that.
pyromancer1987 1 month ago
@Jshect In addition, many people who claim to be Atheists really aren't becuase they don't really believe everything an Atheist does. Atheism isn't the sole belief of there being no creator. More rather, that is the belief of an Agnostic (derived from Greek meaning "no knowledge"). Atheism does mean "no God," but there are many other practices and beliefs that real Atheists have that many don't. If you simply don't know and don't care to know, then you're most likely an Agnostic.
pyromancer1987 1 month ago
@pyromancer1987 You are not reading what I said correctly. I said Atheism is the "fastest growing" non religion and Islam is second. I didn't say most practiced, I said fastest growing. You are also convenietly putting words in my mouth that "I don't know and don't care" if god is real. You obviously don't know much about atheism.We don't practice this or that, we are simply saying there is not sufficient evidence that a god/gods exists. If real, substatiated evidence were presented to us and
Jshect 1 month ago
@pyromancer1987 and the evidence was credible and could be observed by other people in an as objective manner as posible, we would believe. You seem to think atheists don't care about anything and you are wrong. We care just as much, or more, as everyone else, it is just that we value evidence. Evidence is, sadly, something that is underappreciated, and without it people are likely to believe all sorts of things: magic, tarrot cards, astrology, mind reading, politicians' promises, and religion.
Jshect 1 month ago
@Jshect I have a lot of respect for you because you know what you believe and because you back up those beliefs, and I truly wish more Christians were like you in the way they back up their beliefs. I do wish that you would also consider reading a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroble. He was an Atheist searching for a way to disprove Christianity and in the process he found evidence that pushed him to believe that there must be a divine creator. Maybe it will give you some evidence.
mjmiddleton1 1 week ago in playlist YouTube Mix for dc Talk
@pyromancer1987 And you really don't understand atheism. It is not a religion so there are no shared practices, customs, or beliefs. We do not believe there is no god, we simply say there is no evidence. That is the only thing all atheists have in common. If you are confused about this I would suggest watching youtube videos of "The Atheist Experience," or read a book by or watch a video by richard dawkins, sam harris or Christopher Hitchens. "God the failed hypotheses" is a good book.
Jshect 1 month ago
@Jshect But dud, just one question. if the song rocks but the lyrics are stupid (to you of course) because you are an atheist, how could you like it? Btw they do Rock!!!!!!!!!!
jordanhieber1 4 months ago in playlist Casting Crowns and DC Talk
@jordanhieber1 You can like the way a song sounds, musically, and still not like the lyrics. How many songs have you heard on the radio an you like them but you don't even no what the lyrics are or the lyrics are really stupid, like about getting money and big booty hoes, but still think it's a catchy song anyway.
Jshect 4 months ago
@Jshect ok just don't get y u r an athiest
jordanhieber1 4 months ago
frrgsd
tzunamy13 9 months ago
haha! kevin max lloks like such a dork in those glasses! kind of resembles john lennon.....
TheObiwan1113 11 months ago
hah! tobys so young!
maxwax117 1 year ago
I love these guys so much, each so different, yet when they harmonize it's a blessed trinity, hehe. I miss them all together.
33scampbel 1 year ago
LOVE THESE MEN THEY ARE ANOINTED I AM A SOUL WOMAN BUT EACH CORD OF WHAT THE ELECTRICAL INSTRUMENT THE MUSIC MESSAGE HELLO GOD I LOVE YOU PLEASE BLESS THESE PEOPLE IN JESUS NAME
smooothlegs 1 year ago
God is our ever present help in trouble. :)
ForgivenMs 1 year ago
I'm a Deist now, but I still love their music and I still remember them playing an awesome live show when I saw them probably 10 years ago.
CGuyDE 1 year ago
@CGuyDE not another one!
TheZayin77 9 months ago
whats the purpose of this song
TheCrisdaniel 1 year ago
@TheCrisdaniel To praise God!~<3
Frozenbullies 1 year ago
is this in portland ORegon?
jonatain 1 year ago
never tire of this song- so HELP ME GOD!!!
possumsleeps 2 years ago
sining every lyric? you mean sinning? lol
you got me there
jie4Him 2 years ago
This band was my absolute favorite band at the time, and I'm now an atheist and listening to this music... it's still fun ... but I grew up mentally and musically :P ... if they ever got together for a reunion ... I'd be right there sining EVERY Lyric :P
jonbej 2 years ago
sorry your an atheist now =]
kevin max was in dallas past week, hes not sure about the group getting back together.
Indianmalujl 2 years ago
@jonbej I'm pretty sure you grew up musically but mentally I doubt it a LOT!!!
raisedfist80 1 year ago
2nd only to Audio Adrenaline
greenadrenaline6405 2 years ago
@greenadrenaline6405 lol no way dc talk is th Orig-i-nal! lol jk theyr both amazing!
idrum4jesus767 1 year ago
What year was this? 1995?
GodsWildfire 2 years ago
An awesome year is what it was. you know why? because DC Talk was still together.
KAmilkshakeP 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Attention Religious Zealots: I am done responding in this forum. I just don't have the time anymore. If anyone wants a clearer explanation, feel free to read the note on my profile page.
Here's hoping the majority of you learn to be more than just fools for the oldest con in the world.
ricksparks 2 years ago
pull your head out of your self righteous butt rick. i like how you put down every believer, and then freak out if a christian tells you to shut up, what a joke. you are so cool rick, such a rebel. don't even try to pull the "well thats not very christian of you" bs. you need to wake up and realize that your beliefs are just as silly as our beliefs. prove the big bang rick, prove it, you can't, therefore everything you believe is WRONG. you see where im getting at?
walrusturd 2 years ago 2
They will know we are Christians by our love!
GodsWildfire 2 years ago
this is a sick song..
djbro16 2 years ago
There are people out there who do try to live according to the Bible rick, I'm sorry if all you've met are hypocrites. I've made my share of mistakes in life and I don't pretend to hide them, I ask forgiveness from both God and the people I wrong. But people have also been killed/ostracized for not being German, although a travesty, I don't try to convince people that Darwinism (not atheism) is wrong. What is it you seek from your fellow youtubers?
MasterRahl7 2 years ago
Hi, Rahl... No need to apologize on behalf of hypocrites. That is their burden, not yours.
I am tired of watching religion addle minds with false promises & outright lies, incite horrific acts of bigotry & sexism & violence, and limit humanity's intellectual progress. I am here to confront religious adherents regarding the fictional nature of their beliefs.
Too much time, too much money, and too many brain cells are at stake.
ricksparks 2 years ago
The reason for trolling on Christian related forums: The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable -Kevin Max
What is it that you wish to find, or who do you wish to convince? People have been killed/ostracized for believing and not believing.
MasterRahl7 2 years ago
you need to changer that. to add that its so help me god and luv is a verb
neverjanay 2 years ago
kmax looks like he's from the beatles
neverjanay 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alright, Christian adherents, I understand your desire to change the character "Jesus'" claim that he will return during "this generation's" lifespan to mean all of humanity... but what about "his" reference to the flood story as incentive - a story proven by geologists to have NEVER happened?
Matthew 24.34-39
ricksparks 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you agree that ricksparks is foolish can i get an amen? lol..... AMEN
ACspitice 2 years ago
God is god wether ur Christian or not u dont have to be Christian to beleave in god
COREYSINGS 2 years ago
Most religions that happen to use a different name are essentially referring to the same entity, Different doctrine/practices/principles, same God.
WildBillHickums 2 years ago
practically, but not essentially. Different religions have completely different gods. Buddha, for instance is nowhere even close to The Trinity known as God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. different primal gods such as ones conjugated by indian tribes consider the sun, moon, and even weather patterns to be gods.
Mahjoun 2 years ago
Rick, I feal bad for people like you, Thats all im saying on this case
xBornToBeWildx 2 years ago
x: You're PROGRAMMED to feel "bad" for people who don't believe the same things you do.
Unfortunately, you haven't LEARNED that your perspective isn't 100% accurate.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Only the Holy Spirit can reach people like you. There are several things that point to God and His existence...nature and its perfect balance, the way we were created, etc. The Dead Sea scrolls, history, prophecies-all prove that the Bible is true. People like you don't want to believe so nothing that either me or anyone else can say will convince you; only God can do that. I will pray for you. Also, if you believe that Christians are deceived, why are you even looking at this video?
ashleymarisa 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ash: What a load of garbage.
There's a reason the "god" you believe exists has never been proven to be real. It does NOT exist.
Think for a moment - if you were a "god" would you REALLY leave the teaching of your existence in the hands of people who didn't know bats weren't birds, that animal sacrifices have no effect on leprosy, and didn't all know the world was a spehre as opposed to flat?
ricksparks 2 years ago
the reason why God lets us decide whether or not we want to believe in him is because the nature of God is love and love never forces itself on another. It just loves you and waits patiently for your response. God is love!
: )
barnequashesha06 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your comment is written as if you know what "god" thinks. Never mind the fact that no one has ever proven a "god" exists - what makes you know you KNOW what such a being would want?
The "god" you believe in calls bats BIRDS in Deuteronomy & Leviticus, states animal sacrifices are somehow useful with regard to helping a sufferer of leprosy, and refers to Earth using carpentry terms that describe things which are flat.
"God" is love like Ted Stevens is a truck.
ricksparks 2 years ago
According to ancient classifications, a "bird" meant flying animals. According to their definition of "bird," bats were birds.
Nowadays, in our culture, we have changed how animals are classified. That doesn't make the Bible wrong in any way, shape, or form.
sloppyjoes7 2 years ago
sloppy: Sorry, but you're quite wrong. I've been through this with people who deal with the Hebrew version. The original word is owph, which means "bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings)."
The next time you respond to me, please at least try to know what you're referring to.
Did you REALLY just claim the "bible" is never wrong?
Explain why it describes a catastrophic flood which geologists proved has NEVER happened.
ricksparks 2 years ago
youre taking the word of someone else just as he is. Catastrophic flood didnt happen? Isn't that how ocean sedimentary found its way to the top of Everest?
WildBillHickums 2 years ago
Bill: I'm hardly taking the word of one person. The majority of the scientific community agrees there was no flood as described in the "bible." Also, Mesopotamian & Egyptian cultures have been dated to be older than the supposed time of the flood. Not a word from them about it, and ancient Egyptians were notoriously good at keeping track of events both fortuitous and negative.
ricksparks 2 years ago
you have to consider that the person that wrote down the story of the flood lived at this certain area that is described. so there might have been a flood in israel. but who says that there was a flood in egypt, too? no one.
same thing with evolution. i myself believe in evolution.
i think it is possible that we developed over time and got some "updates". maybe god gave them to us. but still i believe that humans where and still are created by god.
OSRul0r 2 years ago
OS: I don't HAVE to consider any such thing. Besides, let's look at the can of worms you've opened...
IF the "great flood" as described in the "bible" was just a tiny one exaggerated, then why would "god" go through the rigamarole of stating "he" was unhappy with what "he" created and have Noah save ALL the (presumably) land-based animals for what would have been a one to two day trip?
That story makes even LESS sense.
Believe what you like, but that doesn't make your belief fact.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Rick, why are you preaching so much? Why do you feel so strongly about this? If Christianity offends you, maybe you should just steer clear of it and comment on some secular music videos ;)
Lets keep this back and forward crap off youtube people!
moochmeamillers 2 years ago 13
mooch: I can't remember why I first came to this forum, maybe someone sent me a link. At any rate, it is areas such as this which on the surface may seem harmless but are where the true nature of the insidiousness of religion hides.
This is a public place. You and others are proclaiming an invisible "man" in the sky loves you and are trying to convince others to start or continue believing such a thing.
Where's the proof?
ricksparks 2 years ago
There is none. This is why it's called religion. you cant proove any religion.
but still christians are sure that jesus exists because they have experienced him in their lives, everyone in his/her own way. This is why each relationship betwenn each christian and jesus is special and unique.
I do believe that Jesus exists and loves me because ive prayed for different things and they came true how only a god could have done it. this is when i new jesus loves me. btw. he loves you, too. god bless
OSRul0r 2 years ago 2
OS: Not one person who claims they felt "Jesus" can be trusted to be telling the truth. As a matter of fact, people get the same feeling described by religious adherents as those who attend rock concerts.
Name one thing you've prayed for which came true which could ONLY be the result of supernatural influence.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Rick: You could ask an inumerable amout of people about the theology of Christianity. Most will say it's a load of crap and they scoff at it, and never think about it again. However, some people believe that Christ is their Lord and Savior. You don't have to if you don't want to, but you should shut up when it comes to a person's religion. If you want to discuss Christ, let's try to keep it in a somewhat civil way. Thanks. :)
JesusFreak9525 2 years ago 2
Freak: How DARE you tell me to shut up! This kind of thing is EXACTLY why I am in this public forum.
For centuries, people have been ostracized and/or killed for disagreeing with religious leaders. I understand that you think the entire world was made with you in mind, but that does NOT mean I have to agree, and it does NOT mean I have to give you any special treatment when you make such claims in public.
Faith is not truth, and trying to shut me up for disagreeing is incredibly uncivil.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Rick: I'm sorry for telling you to shut up, that was inappropriate and childish. But, there WILL be a time in your life where what your doing will no longer work for you, and at that point you should talk to someone that you trust that will give objective counsel. Please don't pursue this unless you have a genuine concern on the topic.
SaveNessie95 2 years ago
Nessie: Do tell, Nostradamus.... how, exactly, do you claim to know what will and won't work in my life? Upon what do you base your very unfounded precidtion? And who do you think you are to tell me that I do not have a genuine concern for the well-being of people who are suckers for the oldest con in the world?
ricksparks 2 years ago
SaveNessie95 is JesusFreak9525. Sorry.
JesusFreak9525 2 years ago
No need to be sorry, although I am a little disgusted that people who are supposed to be honest (Christians) use more than one YouTube name.
ricksparks 2 years ago
how is it dishonest? JesusFreak9525 deliberately told you (s)he was savenessie95. You should try feelin some love in your life :)
Mahjoun 2 years ago 3
Mah: I feel plenty of love.
Do you really need me to explain to you why it is dishonest to have more than one handle on the same internet service?
ricksparks 2 years ago
Please explain. It would help. :)
Mahjoun 2 years ago
Mahjoun: We're not discussing a journalist or a political dissident who needs to hid his or her identify in order to express opinions which may put them in danger. We're referring to a regular schlub on YouTube.
Please look up the word deceit in the dictionary. That should explain it.
ricksparks 2 years ago
deceit - a misleading falsehood.
explain how 'SaveNessie95' or 'JesusFreak9525' shows deceit. (s)he definitely immediately explained his(her) identity, so i don't see how (s)he is misleading anyone.
Mahjoun 2 years ago
Mahjoun: The deceit is in having the alternate account in the first place.
ricksparks 2 years ago
and sooooooooooo what ??? humble urself.
Chantalzulu 2 years ago
Chantal: I don't take orders from religious zealots. FYI.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Rickfarts: I thank you for your most inspiring comment! But then again its from u!
Chantalzulu 2 years ago
Whatever.
ricksparks 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ricksparks ricksparks
10 months ago
Chantal: I don't take orders from religious zealots. FYI.
And as well you shouldnt. You might want to consider that human beings are the ones that have fucked everything up. With respect to how you have decided to live your life please dont pigeon hole every christian into being a complete irrational idiot. Maybe you dont but your comments say otherwise.
jedipudu 1 year ago
No one is perfect, not evern Christians.
jaycart22 2 years ago
jay: I'm not asking people to be perfect. This is hardly the first religious person I've encountered on YouTube with multiple accounts. One guy turned out to have FIVE. Ever try discussing religion with FIVE versions of the same person?
ricksparks 2 years ago
LOL xD
petbouvi 2 years ago
There is a reference in Genesis that the world was created a sphere. And why are you hypothetically assuming that if you or I were a "god", with the smidget of intellect we have, why would we know exactly whats best to do with the world, time and eternity.
WildBillHickums 2 years ago
Bill: Which version of the "bible" are you using? The word is clearly circle, not sphere - even in the original Hebrew text. During the time the "bible" was written, many believed Earth to be a flat circle.
ricksparks 2 years ago
I hope you learn to find out that no human being can personally bring anyone to Christ. Period. Maybe the reason people aren't changing when you want them to is because you're trying to do the change instead of letting the Holy Spirit do it.
Mahjoun 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
your all fucking idiots shut the fuck up dc talk is funny thats it.
mcmice666 2 years ago
another who could draw it backwards (28. Canestrini quotes Hyrtl. ('Annuario della Soc. dei Naturalisti,' Modena, 1867, p. 97) to the same effect.); and from what one of these persons told me, it is probable that most of us, by often touching our ears, and thus directing our attention towards them, could recover some power of movement by repeated trials.
----- Charles Darwin.
-- continued --
ricksparks 2 years ago
Your claim about the tailbone is idiotic. In fact, occasionally children are born with vestigal tails.
Look at your intestines; they would function much better if you walked on all fours. Look at the way your eyes work; a flawed "design" if there ever was one. Of course, the reason is that there was no "designer."
Both Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain passages in which the fictional character "god" refers to bats as part of a list of fowl. A "god" should know better.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Actually the eye proves that there is in fact a designer. If you don't believe me, go look up what the tail bone does on a medical website. How would my intestines function better? Evolution teaches that walking upright is an advancement. So then are we de-evolutionizing? Your arguments are really quite foolish.
By the way...what reference in Leviticus and Deuteronomy? I challenge you to find it.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You're extremely ignorant about the way our eyes work. Try this:
(youtube . com ) watch?v=pcnCJqDa1us
The fact is, if you walked on all fours your intestines would hang in a manner that would make their work more efficient. Think about it.
The only reason you think my arguments are foolish is because you are not using reason. You're attempting to defend your very indefensible religious beliefs and eschewing logic in order to do so.
LEV 11:13-19 and DEU 14:11-18
ricksparks 2 years ago
The problem is not one of biological classification but of semantics and translation. The Hebrew word in Leviticus 11:13-25 is "oph". In the similar passage Deuteronomy 14:11-20 the word is "psippor" in verse 11 and "oph" in 19-20. Neither word completely corresponds to the English "bird" or "fowl". "Tsippor" is used of birds and bats. "Oph" also refers to birds and bats. If we translate "oph" and "tsippor" as "flying creatures" or "winged creatures" the skeptics complaint is answered.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You are a lying sack of crap.
The Hebrew word "oph" means BIRDS - specifically of the feathered kind. Tsippor is translated as SPARROW.
Please stop writing to me if all you're going to do is engage in deceit. Religion is evil enough without assholes like you spreading misinformation.
ricksparks 2 years ago
lol ok. I think we've spoken enough. You're getting pretty bent out of shape about this. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing more to say.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Go fuck yourself.
I'm not bent of shape, and I'm in a very good mood. I'm just not interested in liars like you.
The reason you think there is no more to write is because you are a deluded idiot.
ricksparks 2 years ago
I find it comical though that somehow I'm the deluded liar when in fact you're the one who came to a Christian video to leave comments on how things are so wrong. Seems like you're trying to spread misinformation. Kind of reminds me of the baptist church in Kansas who bombards military funerals to tell them they're going to hell and they're wrong. I sense the same hatefulness coming from you. But I've said enough.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Think for a moment.
YOU claim an invisible "god" which has never been proven to be real loves you.
I do not.
That makes you the liar here. Nothing comical about that at all.
I have expressed no hate here. People like you just like to pretend you're persecuted. No one's being fed to lions or torn apart for religion here... you're just being reminded that you base part of your life on fictional lies.
You're referring to Fred Phelps. That guy is a nutjob.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Very good yes I am. And I in no way compare this to true persecution. I could care less if you like me for what I am. But the point I am trying to make is that if you can't confess that you've been rather hateful then I have no more reason to talk to you. As for my claim to an invisible God which has never been proven to be real loving you, in what way does that make me a liar? Since He has never been proven to be fake? Your claims require as much faith as mine to believe.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You mean you could NOT care less.
If someone tells you an invisible goat circles the sun and you pass that information along without verifying it that makes you a liar by proxy. And, since you are smart enough to know that much of the "bible" has been debunked and/or identified as patently untrue, you are engaging in self-deception by pretending otherwise.
It is impossible for fictional characters to show themselves.
You deal in fantasy. I deal in proof and evidence.
ricksparks 2 years ago
No you deal with your own fantasy of what you want to to be true.
LOL if it makes you feel better "I couldn't care less".
Really, you don't deal with evidence, you deal with one ideas and theories that you choose to believe. You are in no way approaching a logical or rational conclusion any different than anyone else. Neither have you demonstrated in your posts that you really care to hear anything anyone else has to say. But you don't mind bombarding us with your athiest agenda.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: I am under no delusions regarding the nature of the world we live in. You believe an invisible man LOVES you, and yet threatens you with everlasting torture upon death in a place which has never been proven real if you don't pretend to love "him" back. Utter ridiculousness.
It has nothing to do with my feelings. I was simply pointing out that you were using words wrong.
Your last paragraph is drivel.
Tell me, why don't you believe in the existence of Zeus or Horus or Krishna?
ricksparks 2 years ago
And regarding being "debunked" as you put it, you've still failed to hold an intelligible argument with me. All you did was throw a fit when I responded to your question. So apparently by your standards I'm not intelligent enough to know that. But really, it doesn't matter what you think because most of the people coming and reading this dialogue (if they so choose) will see your belligerent behavior on a you tube meant to minister to fellow christians and your words will fall on deaf ears.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Absolutely none of what you just wrote makes a bit of sense.
You are the epitome of a mind muddled by religion. I pity you.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Why? I am probably a more productive member in society than you are? As for why I do not believe in other gods is because no other religion has demonstrated the power that lies behind the truth. As well as the experience I had at my time of conversion. These other gods haven't offered up their lives for humanity, and they demand that a man have good works in order to receive a good judgment. The Bible teaches that a man is fallen and can in no wise redeem himself by his works.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Subjective straw-man arguments are boring. It is impossible to know if either of us is more "productive" unless we do a side-by-side comparison of our accomplishments judged by an impartial party. Besides, you don't write in a very logical manner, so in that arena I've trumped you soundly.
You say "conversion" - I say delusion.
Can you prove the "god" you believe in really died for the "sin" said "god" supposedly put on humans in the first place?
- continued -
ricksparks 2 years ago
What you think the "bible" teaches is laughable. The book also teaches that a man who rapes a woman must marry her and EVER be allowed to divorce. The "god" of the "bible" goes to great lengths in explaining how animals sacrifices will somehow cleanse the house of a leprosy sufferer. "He" also refers to the Earth as if flat. The "bible" also teaches that children who refuse to obey their parents should be stoned to death by the men of the city they live in. Not exactly a source of TRUTH.
ricksparks 2 years ago
... that should be, "NEVER be allowed to divorce."
ricksparks 2 years ago
You haven't triumphed soundly in any area of logic except in your own mind because you're both arrogant and foolish.
Then let me ask, what do you do to contribute to society? Then I will tell you what I do and then let the rest of the people be a judge (because I'm sure someone will read at least the latest comments). As for what you're referring to, that is also old testament law, which Christians do not practice because they were given for the benefit of the nation of Israel.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: What is it with religious fools and their desire to call people who DON'T believe an invisible man in the sky which has never been proven real LOVES them and has a PLAN for them?
You're projecting a trait you possess onto me.
I am not on trial here. Religion is. If you want a short biography, you'll have to wait for it to be finished. I've accomplished a lot in my forty-one years.
- continued -
ricksparks 2 years ago
You're very wrong about the "old" law. The character Jesus SPECIFICALLY states "he" did not come to change the old laws, but to fulfill them. That means you must do what the "bible" says if you are a believer. So, that means the next time a person is cured of leprosy, "cleanse" him and his house with animal sacrifies. Kill children who do not behave. Play with deadly cobras and ingest hemlock since in Matthew it is said all believers can do such things safely.
-continued-
ricksparks 2 years ago
P.S. I hope you're NOT dumb enough to do those things.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Dude, fulfilling the law means accomplishing it to the extent where man cannot. The law is the 10 commandments established by God Himself to line up a man's heart in comparison to the law. The Old Testament law was made for the governing of Israel which is what Moses enacted on their behalf. Don't attempt to school me on the Bible and its interpretation.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You do not know that at all. The book is not clear in any regard. Therefore, it must be taken at face value.
Besides, all that is just meandering. The "bible" is a book of fiction written by humans who wanted to control the minds (and wallets) of other humans. It is not divine at all, and an untrustworthy source of truth and decency.
You seem to need schooling regarding the "bible." Have you read it cover to cover? I have. Three times.
ricksparks 2 years ago
LOL congratulations should I be impressed? Yes actually I have. I continually read it daily and have for the last 6 years. And actually, yes I do know that. How much time did you really spend in the epistles of Hebrews, Galatians, and Romans? Shoot, how much time did you really spend analyzing the writings of Paul? Even Jesus made it clear that the laws of Moses were given on the account of people who were under the Old Testament.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Smarm is not helping. I wasn't trying to impress you. I stated a simple fact.
I didn't calculate the time I spent reading it at the time I was doing so. It usually took an average of two months when I read it. I'm actually working on if a fourth time to support a parody version I'm developing.
I dare you to name ONE verse from the character "Jesus" which NEGATES any of the rules put forth in the Old Testamant.
ricksparks 2 years ago
I don't think Smarm is the correct word for my comment. Sarcasm would actually be a better fit.
First you must understand something, Jesus did not negate himself from the law of the old testament because it could not be fulfilled until His death. However, once His death was accomplished, the sacrifice to forgive man totally of his sin was fulfilled.
Very well, Matthew 5:38-48. Mark 3:25-28
Mark 3:1-6.
...
aelkins02 2 years ago
Also take into account what was mentioned in Hebrews regarding the old covenant. Read Acts 15 in the dispute of circumcision. The conclusion was that it was not a necessary proclamation of faith to be circumcised since spiritually we have had our hearts "circumcised". Your belief that christians must follow the old testament is what Paul refuted in his book written to the Galatians. Read up on "Judiazers" you might find some of the similar misunderstandings they had.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You are VERY confused about what is in your "bible."
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven-Matthew 5:18-19
So, snap to it. Make women who are raped marry their attackers and such.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Again, in response to that. It was in reference to the 10 commandments, not the old covenant. I refuse to argue with you on this any further until you actually read the epistles Paul wrote. THEN we will talk about it. I'll continue on the issue of godless government until then.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: I already told you I've read the entire "bible" three, cover to cover. Pay attention.
Actually, it's a good thing you refuse to argue with me about it. You're completey off-base and quite incorrect about a great many things.
ricksparks 2 years ago
And this is coming from you. Therefore it contains no weight as to what reality is.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Then feel free to fuck off at your earliest convenience. If all you want to do is fight, join a boxing club.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Seems you're being the aggressor, since this is a christian music video, you KNEW there would be christians on here. So the first thing you did was come in and start running your mouth hoping to get someone to open their and I did.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: I make no bones about the fact that I am here to help religious suckers see their beliefs are based on idiocy, so they can learn to think and hopefully free themselves from the shackles of an untrue religion. Problem is, you're being irrational and unecessarily combative by trying to make the argument into something it is not.
An example of your lack of logic: NEITHER of us is using our MOUTHS in this discourse. At least, I know I'm not. Typing with your upper lip?
ricksparks 2 years ago
Can you not use common sense to realize that I was using a common saying? Do I need to be literal about everything? I think it's just an attempt to be critical.
And no, I'm not making the argument into something its not. I'm exposing you for what you are. The very things your claiming about Christianity is EXACTLY what you're beliefs are guilty of.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You're right, I should have assumed that you didn't have the capacity to communicate your pitiful opinions without utilizing cliches and realized pointing that out would only cause you to be defensive about it. My bad.
If I had done the same and you had caught it, I would have laughed and stated you were right.
My beliefs are based on facts. Yours are based on misinformation and myth.
"... beliefs are guilty of?" How do you figure belief can be defined as a thing like guilty?
ricksparks 2 years ago
Probably not, you probably would have attempted to justify yourself because of a fear of seeming wrong which could lead me to think of your opinion as inferior.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: You think "god" is a factual reality, but that the way electricity works is just a THEORY.
Your judgement is quite unsound.
ricksparks 2 years ago
The only thing scary about what you write is how idiotic it usually is.
ricksparks 2 years ago
hi. i'm a christian, and i think it is great, the way u have discussed about christianity with rick. what i'm really saying, is that i'm proud of u and for being a christian :D
Matfriken 2 years ago 2
lol i forgot that this was to ae
Matfriken 2 years ago
ae: Once again, I have to correct you.
smarm: speech related to behavior that is unctuously flattering, ingratiating
sarcasm: harsh or bitter derision or irony
..and, because most people get this one wrong, too...
irony: the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, How nice! when I said I had to work all weekend
--
Smarm it is.
- continued -
ricksparks 2 years ago
I asked you to prove the character "Jesus" negated any of the rules put forth in the Old Testament. You did not.
You may consider your half-connected theories and whatever else your preacher crammed down your throat in order to get you to follow your cult's activities correctly identified as weaselling and based on distortions culled from a book which is little more than fiction designed by some humans to control the minds of other humans.
Sucker.
ricksparks 2 years ago
By the way, atheists have their own doctrines which bring are worse than these criticisms you mention.
aelkins02 2 years ago
Let me correct myself, "...which are worse..."
aelkins02 2 years ago
There's no such thing as an "atheist doctrine" - again, you're projecting the traits of your own mind onto me. If it weren't for the fact that people ran around claiming everyone must believe in their fairy-tale religion, the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" wouldn't even exist.
I was lucky enough to not be labelled like that until I was almost fourteen years old. A somewhat happier time, due to the fact that I didn't have to deal with hogwash. Now, I combat it by engaging nitwits like you.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Perhaps not a doctrine as to one regarding a set standard across the board. But yes, even you have doctrines. For instance, you teach that there is no God. That is a doctrine. You also teach (assuming) that morality is based upon society. That also is doctrine as well as humanism. Humanism IS in fact a religion. So are you saying humanism is on trial also?
aelkins02 2 years ago
You're attempting to claim I have an atheist doctrine. If it weren't for the fact that you insist a "god" which has never been proven real exists, I would not HAVE to tell you you're very misguided.
Of course morals are derived by society. Our ancestors figured it was probably best not to kill or rape each other on a regular basis if they planned to live in close proximity to one another. We still have a few deviants, but most agree.
I'm not interested in discussing humanism.
ricksparks 2 years ago
That's fine, but regardless, you must be fair in trying humanism as a religion if you're lumping religion together. Let me ask, do you spend this much time debating with Muslims or Hindus? Or do only Christians get that privilege? As for being misguided, explain to me how having morality not to cheat on my wife, abuse my children, murder someone else, lie, steal, cheat, unfairly judge others, hate, and any other characteristics of a baser nature is being misguided?
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: I must do no such thing. My focus here is the idiocy of the "bible." If you want to discuss humanism, find another forum.
I have debated Muslims. They usually end up proclaiming I will die in a horrible manner. I've never had an adherent of Hinduism claim I should join their cult under penalty of everlasting torture upon death.
- continued -
ricksparks 2 years ago
I live in a society dominated by Christians. As such, that is my focus. If more people in the US were less likely to be fools for their fairy-tale cult, idiots like Sarah Palin would have less impact on humanity.
None of the morality you've described requires the "bible" for you to engage in it. Tell me, do you mean to infer that you'd be a useless barbarian if you didn't think a "god" would punish you for doing so?
If so, you're quite sociopathic and need mental help.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Well you could always move to China, they're communist there. Democracy is not an atheistic idea, socialism and communism are. However, our country is NOT dominated by Christians. All the time we are restricted on what we do while you're permitted to teach evolution in public schools. And you want to claim that it is dominated by Christians? That couldn't be further from the truth.
Actually I'm quite sane. So unless you have a degree in psychology, it would be best to keep quiet.
aelkins02 2 years ago
I am saying that the result of communist regimes and totalitarian dictatorships are the result of atheism. So yes, I am inferring that.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Than you're an idiot with no perspective regarding human history.
ricksparks 2 years ago
ae: Religious idiots always bring up communism and socialism (BTW, our police, schools, and fire departments are SOCIALIST... FYI). Please stop getting off-topic.
It doesn't take a degree to know that a person who claims he would rape and kill if he didn't have a "god" watching over him is in need of a mental evaluation. Perhaps you just wrote without thinking, and that's excusable, but I can't help but noticed you HAVEN'T said you DON'T need a "god" in order to be a decent person.-continued-
ricksparks 2 years ago
ae: Oh please. My money all has "IN GOD WE TRUST" on it. The Pledge of Allegiange had the bullshit line "Under God" inserted into it. Recent polls show Americans would vote a homosexual for President before an atheist.
I would be fine with having religion taught in schools under two conditions:
A) It is taught in an entirely impartial manner
B) ALL known religions and their origins are taught
Christians usually bristle at number two. Most want just their cult shoved in kids' heads.
ricksparks 2 years ago
... I certainly did mangle the word "allegiance." Perhaps the generic day-quil I'm using is not as "non-drowsy" as the package claims.
ricksparks 2 years ago
LOL you think that because of those two things? Well, they've made laws to allow you to keep from saying "under God" if you don't want to, another product of a non-christian dominated government. If this were truly a Christian dominated government I can assure you things would be much different than they are now. What is in our government now is the result of many godless ambitious individuals who do what is right in their own eyes and take advantage of others.
aelkins02 2 years ago
Another point I'd like to bring up is that you have in no wise convinced me of a different truth in what I believe. You've also only affirmed my Faith and you've shown me that atheism has nothing to offer humanity except to make others miserable. Thank you for representing it as it truly is.
aelkins02 2 years ago
By the way, the fulfill the law meant to make it possible for man to fulfill it through Christ's sacrifice. Again, the laws that Moses gave were for the practice of the nation of Israel. The law that God gave was eternal and what was to be used to judge men. If you fulfill these 10 commandments, you fulfill the law. Romans says that love fulfills the law. I don't know why I'm even arguing with you about this. Your arguments regarding what Jesus did when He fulfilled the law are so futile.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: There's a huge problem with your comment. ALL of it is based on the "bible. Since the "bible" is fiction designed by ancient humans to control the minds of other humans, it is of no relevance to me.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Yeah, a perfect answer to cop your way out of being convinced of anything other than what you believe. It's quite evident your avoiding the fact that I am right. I think you're just trying to goad me on now.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: That's not a cop-out. I wouldn't discuss the merits of a stained-glass window in a building with a rotten foundation. Same goes with the "bible." You want to claim it's the truth, and yet that has been disproven time & time again by archaeologists, scientists, and historians.
Actually, I wouldn't mind at all if you decided to stop writing to me. I find your opinions quite cliche and jingoistic.
ricksparks 2 years ago
And again, I say that your evidence isn't evidence. It's just as unproven as my belief in the Bible. Your means of dating things are horrid. Therefore it boils down to belief in your evidence. Science cannot determine how something came to be, only that it exists. It can't even explain how electricity works. It can speculate with theories, but it cannot say "We know exactly how this works." There are theories and it seems to correlate with those theories, but it has not been physically proven.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: MY means of dating things? What would those be? And as a tech do you REALLY not understand that energy flows via the path of least resistance?
I don't know how long you've been a satellite tech, but c'mon. That's Electronics 101.
ricksparks 2 years ago
It is a theory. It's not the point that I don't understand the theory and believe it, but if you can't admit that it is not proven then you have blind faith in your assumption. I sat through enough classes and every teacher I had affirmed that it is not proven, it's a theory and an explanation- probably the best we have, but it is still impossible to completely know.
aelkins02 2 years ago
ae: Let me get this straight....
A) You think the way electricity works is ONLY a theory, even though you can see it and measure it.
B) You think a "god" which has NEVER been proven to exist and, as such, has never been seen nor measured MUST exist.
You are a fucking fool. I have no interest in responding to you any more.
ricksparks 2 years ago
It is a theory. You can measure it and you can see it, but the ways by which you can determine it works is still based on theory. For instance a Faraday cage is a theory. It is under the assumption that because the cage completes a circuit, what is in the middle of the cage will remain unharmed, yet it is still a theory. Yes it works, but it is still a theory. It's not fact.
aelkins02 2 years ago
Ricksparks you are lost and need the Lord
AJBenoughsaid 2 years ago
AJ: Prove there is a "god" and I will believe in it. Otherwise, you're just spewing nonsense based upon an ancient book of fiction.
Besides, the "Lord?" Surely you realize the days of kings are long since past.
You DO realize the phrases "King of Kings" and "Lord of Lords" were invented so religious leaders could attempt to control political adversaries, yes?
ricksparks 2 years ago
Seriously you're only saying this for your own selfish "political control adversaries" Now go and spread your lies elsewhere we'd really rather not you straying strong believers
AJBenoughsaid 2 years ago
AJ: Political control adversaries? WTF?
Again - prove there is a "god" and I will believe in it. Otherwise, you're just another deluded rube for the oldest con in the world.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Aside from the con part, that's my point. It's the FIRST one. God is the FIRST and the LAST(alpha and omega, etc)
Believe by faith not by sight (Corinthians: something >_>)
And I really don't like helpless athiests calling me A.J.
AJBenoughsaid 2 years ago
Re: Your first sentence...
PROVE it.
Re: Your second sentence....
No more believable than tales written by L. Ron Hubbard.
Re: Your third sentence...
I didn't create your pseudonym. Pick a better one and I'll use it.
ricksparks 2 years ago
You said it yourself it's the oldest religion. Basically you said it's the first religion.
Yeah I'm sure mr. Hubbard has a ton of people praising him for what he did, Same thing with Winston Churchill! You're an idiot -.-
AJBenoughsaid 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
AJ: I didn't say your fairy-tale religion is the oldest. There are many which predate it... many, by the way, which the writers of the "bible" STOLE STORIES FROM.
You believe the first woman was made from a rib. I do not. That makes you the idiot.
ricksparks 2 years ago
ae: If that's all you got out of this discourse, then you're even less intelligent than I initially suspected.
ricksparks 2 years ago
Honestly I really don't care what you suspect. That's a matter of your opinion. Let me ask, what do you do for a career if this is a matter of intelligence? If you really think I am so stupid for believing in an eternal God, what do you do? I work on Satellite communications equipment for the government. Besides being a poor critic, what else do you do?
aelkins02 2 years ago