What do you mean it wasn't fighting about injustice or morality. Wasn't Saddam an extremely brutal dictator? Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000 to over 600,000, estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000, and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000 to 200,000. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.
Secular humanism and religion share some similarities. they both believe they are doing what is morally right. Humanists fighting earthly injustices and religions trying to save social morality and souls. Also both indirectly lead to a large death count. For example hitchens a secular humanists because of his ideaology which includes fighting theocracy and injustices supported the iraq war. Whilst a large majority of christians because of their ideaology supported the crusades.
@aussieguy2109 continued... both of these ventures had nothing to do with morality, fighting injustice or saving souls at their core.Both these ventures where fought for power. So even though secular humanism is more reasonable doesn't make it as an ideaology and less homicidal.
Marty is an awful host. All she says is "hmm" after everything Hitchens says like she doesn't understand or doesn't want to acknowledge his brilliance.
The parable of the Good Samaritan completely destroys Christianity.
The Samaritan was despised, yet he was the only person to help the dying man. The priest was the first to pass him by and even crossed the road to walk around him. The Levite passed him by, too.
So, the despised (by the religious) Samaritan is Jesus' model for a moral person. A person who is despised by religious people? Hmmmm, could he be describing AN ATHEIST?
Sounds like a secular endeavor, to rescue a stranger.
You're totally right, but I disagree on just one point.
The Good Samaritan wasn't hated because he was an atheist, he was hated because there was a rift between the Jews and Samaritans because Samaritans allowed themselves to marry outside their religion; a crime punishable by death in those days.
But I agree with your overall message: The more secular you are, the more moral you appear to behave.
Well, I didn't mean to say that he was hated because he was an atheist. Just that his religion wasn't the reason why he was doing good, he was doing it just for goodness sake. Like any good secular humanist.
Also, he was hated because he wasn't a member of their religion. Strikingly similar to what an atheist encounters.
Regardless, the Samaritan is described only by his nationality, rather than the priest, or the Levite, who are both obviously religious.
"A person who is despised by religious people? Hmmmm, could he be describing AN ATHEIST?" Growing up a Catholic, I always took that story to mean that it's the 'quality of the person' that determines if they are a 'good person', not how many times they 'kissed ass' to assure themselves salvation. Indeed, it would seem that Christ never looked at Atheists as 'evil'. It's also interesting how the religious never use that parable in debates....
@niginit Re the Good Samaritan story destroying Christianity, this was something that stuck from the years of daily enforced religion (school in England) while growing up: treating fellow humans, even strangers, with kindness is far more important than being pious. The doctrine of most Christians indeed ignores it; no matter how evil you are you'll be forgiven & go to heaven if you merely accept Jesus & repent - a horrible idea.
Which is where we all start to get in trouble. If you can be wicked and still receive a 'get out of hell free card' then sociopaths and psychopaths have all of the justification for their behavior they require. As long as some all loving character will forgive them in the end, it's all okay.
When people realize, the only forgiveness available can only come from other people and that your actions are only reflected by other people and yourself, we will be much better off.
Which is where we all start to get in trouble. If you can be wicked and still receive a 'get out of hell free card' then sociopaths and psychopaths have all of the justification for their behavior they require. As long as some all loving character will forgive them in the end, it's all okay.
When people realize, the only forgiveness available can only come from other people and that your actions are only reflected by other people and yourself, we will be much better off.
Hitchens is incorrect to state Zen was the "official ideology of the Japanese fascist empire." It was a component, but FAR from the "official ideology." Hitchens is brilliant, i'm a huge fan, but he knows little about eastern religion.
Buddhism is a religion through and through, as is Taoism. There is just a popular western movement that is set on ignoring this. It's a benign movement, but it's simply not true. Buddhism is actually quite orthodox in most of its forms.
3:44 -- MM: What do you think this fear of woman or a woman's body is about?
I seem to recall CH in some other talk explaining the origin of misogyny as being in men's sensed loss of control due to their need to be with women. In essence, men feel they can't live without women and therefore hate them.
MM set him up perfectly to address this, but he didn't go there. Does anyone here recall CH addressing the root causes of misogyny, not just its presence in religion?
What do you mean it wasn't fighting about injustice or morality. Wasn't Saddam an extremely brutal dictator? Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000 to over 600,000, estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000, and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000 to 200,000. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.
nigelsenchez 9 months ago
Secular humanism and religion share some similarities. they both believe they are doing what is morally right. Humanists fighting earthly injustices and religions trying to save social morality and souls. Also both indirectly lead to a large death count. For example hitchens a secular humanists because of his ideaology which includes fighting theocracy and injustices supported the iraq war. Whilst a large majority of christians because of their ideaology supported the crusades.
aussieguy2109 1 year ago
@aussieguy2109 continued... both of these ventures had nothing to do with morality, fighting injustice or saving souls at their core.Both these ventures where fought for power. So even though secular humanism is more reasonable doesn't make it as an ideaology and less homicidal.
aussieguy2109 1 year ago
6:15 wig-out alert!!!
symelian 1 year ago
Marty is an awful host. All she says is "hmm" after everything Hitchens says like she doesn't understand or doesn't want to acknowledge his brilliance.
nickcangemi 1 year ago
jeffvanderhoeden - you're not serious are you? it's a r a d i o program. Hitchens is great!
seives 2 years ago
go Hitchens
Bluelincolnpark 2 years ago 10
hmmm this video wont play for me at all... very strange, the rest in this discussion work fine.
jeffvanderhoeden 2 years ago
Haha the caller "Justin" was Epic Fail.
listenthinkspeak 2 years ago 5
The parable of the Good Samaritan completely destroys Christianity.
The Samaritan was despised, yet he was the only person to help the dying man. The priest was the first to pass him by and even crossed the road to walk around him. The Levite passed him by, too.
So, the despised (by the religious) Samaritan is Jesus' model for a moral person. A person who is despised by religious people? Hmmmm, could he be describing AN ATHEIST?
Sounds like a secular endeavor, to rescue a stranger.
niginit 2 years ago 25
You're totally right, but I disagree on just one point.
The Good Samaritan wasn't hated because he was an atheist, he was hated because there was a rift between the Jews and Samaritans because Samaritans allowed themselves to marry outside their religion; a crime punishable by death in those days.
But I agree with your overall message: The more secular you are, the more moral you appear to behave.
asheradensein 2 years ago
Well, I didn't mean to say that he was hated because he was an atheist. Just that his religion wasn't the reason why he was doing good, he was doing it just for goodness sake. Like any good secular humanist.
Also, he was hated because he wasn't a member of their religion. Strikingly similar to what an atheist encounters.
Regardless, the Samaritan is described only by his nationality, rather than the priest, or the Levite, who are both obviously religious.
Thanks for the comment.
niginit 2 years ago
Good point.
asheradensein 2 years ago
"A person who is despised by religious people? Hmmmm, could he be describing AN ATHEIST?" Growing up a Catholic, I always took that story to mean that it's the 'quality of the person' that determines if they are a 'good person', not how many times they 'kissed ass' to assure themselves salvation. Indeed, it would seem that Christ never looked at Atheists as 'evil'. It's also interesting how the religious never use that parable in debates....
pillsareyummy 1 year ago
@niginit Re the Good Samaritan story destroying Christianity, this was something that stuck from the years of daily enforced religion (school in England) while growing up: treating fellow humans, even strangers, with kindness is far more important than being pious. The doctrine of most Christians indeed ignores it; no matter how evil you are you'll be forgiven & go to heaven if you merely accept Jesus & repent - a horrible idea.
queenastilon 1 year ago
@queenastilon
Which is where we all start to get in trouble. If you can be wicked and still receive a 'get out of hell free card' then sociopaths and psychopaths have all of the justification for their behavior they require. As long as some all loving character will forgive them in the end, it's all okay.
When people realize, the only forgiveness available can only come from other people and that your actions are only reflected by other people and yourself, we will be much better off.
niginit 1 year ago
@queenastilon
Which is where we all start to get in trouble. If you can be wicked and still receive a 'get out of hell free card' then sociopaths and psychopaths have all of the justification for their behavior they require. As long as some all loving character will forgive them in the end, it's all okay.
When people realize, the only forgiveness available can only come from other people and that your actions are only reflected by other people and yourself, we will be much better off.
niginit 1 year ago
That's a very good show.
schestowitz 2 years ago
★★★★★
Katalyzt 2 years ago 3
Hitchens is incorrect to state Zen was the "official ideology of the Japanese fascist empire." It was a component, but FAR from the "official ideology." Hitchens is brilliant, i'm a huge fan, but he knows little about eastern religion.
BillKiernan 2 years ago
Buddhism is a religion through and through, as is Taoism. There is just a popular western movement that is set on ignoring this. It's a benign movement, but it's simply not true. Buddhism is actually quite orthodox in most of its forms.
BillKiernan 2 years ago
3:44 -- MM: What do you think this fear of woman or a woman's body is about?
I seem to recall CH in some other talk explaining the origin of misogyny as being in men's sensed loss of control due to their need to be with women. In essence, men feel they can't live without women and therefore hate them.
MM set him up perfectly to address this, but he didn't go there. Does anyone here recall CH addressing the root causes of misogyny, not just its presence in religion?
QuasiRandomViewer 2 years ago
@QuasiRandomViewer no but i'd love to find it too.
BillKiernan 2 years ago