Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich

[CaptainBluebear08]

Nice to see/hear that good ol' Illich is still among us these days. Although I wonder what has become of his insights. In the 70s, he had quite some political influence in Holland, which is where I write from, f.ex. in smallscale and green initiatives, and empowering patients in the health system, etc. His Medical Nemesis was a real bestseller.

[CaptainBluebear08]

But these days, with pandemic neoliberalism in all walks of society, you see where the health system is arriving: private enterprise grazing on "that being with infinite needs", the 'demand for care', etc. Shocking, when you re-read Illich's book, how acute it still is.

Likewise, the education system. Sponsorship via McDonald's and Coke are being seriously discussed, incompetence of teachers in bedrock competences, an apalling corruption, and curriculums that consist of modular chunks.

[Leibo07]

@CaptainBluebear08

Another gloomy and alarming example: GP's advertising in local newspapers with POSSIBLE illnesses, so people are constantly checking on their little aches and complaints, like dry nails. "But if you wanna be sure, just stop by".

Yet another example is the purchase/use of bloodpressure and glucose meters, for own, private, and constant use.

Everything predicted/criticised by Illich, early 70s already.

[openmindedproduction]

Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich is one of my favourite books of all time that I got for about a dollar from a university used books store when I was about 13 years old and it really hit me hard and helped and opened my mind to how the education system works and how it should change . Highly recommended for everyone to read.

[kearlstig1961]

Good presentation, sir.

[canaan1967]

Did you ever hear that much of math and science is a social construct? You might be interested in Paul Feyerabend's book Against Method. It's a little dense and complicated but very interested. You seem like you have a good intuition which lead you to Illich.

[canaan1967]

fatherhurley:  you have to give yourself credit for reading this book. So many Americans are so ignorant about subjects like this. I personally agree with everything Ilich is saying. Thanks for your review.

[FutureIran]

but isn't descoling itself another form of schooling? the fact that you are reading a set of instruction and lable it with the word "deshcooling" wouldnt change the reality that human needs disiplined teaching to gain some basic skills..like reading, wirting,,etc,, inorder to become able to do what you call "deschooling"... I think social scientists like to talk about obvious realities using complicated wordings..

[fatherhurley]

@FutureIran I think you're missing the point here. I'll give you an example, Albert Einstein couldn't read until he was nine. Our US school system would say a nine year old who couldn't read was slow, learning disabled, etc.

I don't necessarily believe everything in the book. I do believe in the general idea that the educational system isn't perfect and can always be improved. Read the book for yourself for a better understanding of the overall message.

Thank you for viewing.

[canaan1967]

@FutureIran

No deschooling is not indoctrination.

[kevbrav]

Great speach! I find it really frustrating when trying to convey my issues with the education system. People agree that there is a problem, that children leave school and they have lost their interest in leaning, but they just wont take it 1 step further and come up with some solutions. The idea of change is to difficult for them.

[joustinApe]

its a little ironic how a school works. grades are a sense of accomplishment but in reality its compilation of "knowledge" over the same materials. funny that no one mentioned it until i saw it on my grade report, rank # of #.

[trottelanwalt]

thx for the review! a very revolutionary thinking man

[kokopelli314]

Good thoughts.

I believe that there is a difference between learning and education, the former being a natural individual capacity, the latter, a contrived social function. Imagine all of the alternate paths our culture, technology or science could have taken. The education necessary for any of these alternatives would be just as rigorous and diverse. Yet there are those roads not taken where we walk in conviviality and love not only knowledge, but it's source.

[glendamnit]

Wise words.  I don't know what else is on your reading list, but I'd suggest you get to John Holt's "How Children Fail" and "How Children Learn" next.

[fatherhurley]

@glendamnit Thanks

[paogg9]

Great book review, it helped me a lot when doing an essay about how important is that we differentiate schooling with education. Good interpretation!

[RevolutionaryJam]

I recommend Summerhill by A S Neill above all others, and Weapons of Mass Instruction by John Taylor Gatto

Deschooling Society is alarmingly astute

[fatherhurley]

@RevolutionaryJam THANK YOU. I'm going to get my hands on these books and give reviews of both.......Self-education and revolutionizing the educational system is most important. Thank you again.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@fatherhurley thankyou for spreading the word on thsi important book! Ivan Illich "Celebration of Awareness" just came in the mail today actually :-)

[fatherhurley]

@RevolutionaryJam Going to look this book up as well. Thanks.....

[glowingdarkmatter25]

I wish that rather than having schools or an after school place; children/adults could have access to an education center where they can earn certificates, create portfolios, and build things when they want to, and when they leave have work credit, references, friends, and a place to return to, for the same price of attending a public highschool. We need a open place to promote the love of learning rather than the need for learning.

[ryandury]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am in the midst of reading this very same book and thought, in the spirit of Ivan Illich's philosophy, I'd take a gander at what youtube had to offer, in response to his writings. One question: where did you find this reading list? I'd be very interested in finding out the titles of the other books being suggested on the subject of learning.

[coolnyg]

my apologies then father

[fatherhurley]

@coolnyg No apology is necessary. Just a miscommunication that's all. Thanks for viewing.

[coolnyg]

"...I want veryone to be educated; I want everyone to get to the doctorate level..."

Sir, those are your words. While I respect the insights that you offer to this subject, please note that, 'Deschooling Society' argues a point very different from yours. The underlying notion is that [we] are convinced that schooling is vital to success. However, it is not for every man to seek a doctorate or the likes. The idea that the better man is the 'educated' man is a 'trained', prejudiced belief.

[fatherhurley]

I believe I said I want everyone to reach the doctorate level if that's what they desire. I understand quite well what the message of the book was sir. I think you need to do a better job of training yourself to listen more intently.

[fatherhurley]

I rewatched the video.......I said that I want to go all the way to the doctorate level....Thanks.