Chrisians and Muslims, aside from condemning eachother as heretical, want it every which way. If the universe is comprehensible this is proof that God exists. If it is incomprehensible this is proof God exists. Each religion regards itself as duty bound to spread its own doctrines and to regard those who don't accept them as hell bound.
Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
Dawkins is critical of religious people producing weak and facile arguments, but that seems to be very similar to his followers (those who ascribe to Atheist fundamentalism). They simply parrot what he and others spout, with little if any thought of their own. If you look at religious message boards you'll see all the same arguments over and over.
@xtriager No, the "founding fathers" excluded religion, enacting the separation of church and state to ensure first and foremost that the church would not be influenced by the state, as it was in the countries of origin. Second, to ensure that there would be no marriage of church and state which has historically been a bastardization of both and corrupting as well as corruptible. Religion is not necessarily married to politics and there are plenty of examples.
Does McGarth deny, for one single moment, that if some fundamental Muslim or American redneck Christian got hold of a nuclear device they wouldnt use it. McGrath is the Bishop Wilberforce of the 21st century.
@plonk220a Less likely given the christian tradition e.g. rusades, inquisition, persecutuon of Jews, persecution of women, forced conversion of South American peoples, African Slave Trade, supression of Hitler's persecution, prayers said for Hitler's birthdays by Vatican, rape of children in every corner of the earth, offical anti-semitism, refusal to allow condoms, Aids, street children living in sewers. Religion long ago lost the argument that Aethists don't have morals.
@plonk220a Another great example that confirms your point is Stalin... arguably murdered more people in his slaughters than all great genocides preceding him put together!
@xtriager Yes Stalin's Russia was maintained on religious fantasies. But you know the religious and the aethists are simply people and all are capable of morality and evil; it is our nature as primates.
@plonk220a So you're abandoning the "Christian tradition" argument and making it a primate argument. OK. I would say it's more of a political argument. As soon as beliefs become political they seem to become a new monster, no matter the belief. I would argue it has everything to do with power. The "Christian tradition" you refer to has very little to do with the faithfulness to Jesus' teachings.
@xtriager Do you really think religious beliefs are not political? You don't see any political implications of doctrines that insist unbelievers are destined for hell and must be 'saved' ie converted or killed? This is why the Founding Fathers went to such lengths explicitly EXCLUDE religious doctrines from being favoured above any others by Government. Not so much to provide freedom OF religion but freedom FROM religion. Religions claim to be about love, in fact they are tyrannical dogmas.
Topics: The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
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it gets to a point where Mc Grath doesn't care if its real or not, just the effect of it. which for me is confusing,,, if you want a good example to follow try watching cartoons like the power rangers or the famous teletubies, if it doesn't need to be real just have a good example you can use those.
If I have a tyre blow out at 70mph and I miss the concrete post "its a miracle ! " When 250,000 people get drowned by a tsunami on a boxing day we shuffle our feet and bleat ah well the earth is suffering the pains of childbirth (shit happens)
McGrath speaks with elegance and says nothing offensive whatsoever. Yet so many comments contain venomous attacks on his character...idiot, liar, etc. Atheists have been known to become Christains and vice versa.
McGrath's arguments are terrible. His entire view of the positives of religion is nothing but a description of Humanism. He doesn't answer the pivotal question of- why believe all the other nonsense religion teaches (supernatural) if you can get the non nonsense it teaches from Atheism too? It make no sense to put up with someone claiming virgin birth when all you really want is Humanism within mankind.
@sonykroket Waiting on evidence?? There is plenty out there. And I'm not a "Bible-kissing douchbag." Atheists reject every bit of explanation given to them by intelligent & educated followers of Jesus. This video is a perfect example.Btw, check out Ravi Zacharias, videos of him, read his books as well. You might get something out of it.
Bronze-age scribblings and the dorkies that believe in it is not evidence. Also, anecdotal evidence and ignorance about the universe doesn't count either.
Ravi can suck my nonreli-balls, just another superstitious apologist that needs a deity to feel happy or special.
@sonykroket Ok well you obviously have everything figured out, so have fun believing whatever you believe. As far as the "bronze age scribblings," that isn't the evidence I was speaking of. Rather, I was referring to many events that have taken place that give credence to Biblical scriptures. But you obviously think it's all bullshit so go ahead and believe whatever you want. Oh, and keep rejecting everything Christians tell you, as you are doing with me now. You have it all figured out
What fuckin many events in the bible happend, you superstitious dorkie? I'll tell you how many.....ZERO!!You idiots love seeing shit that isnt there because you need a skymoron deluxe to feel special
I wipe my ass with scripture as it has more use as toiletpaper.
And if i dont have to take a shit, i'll use it as a table-leveller or a tool to heat up the fireplace.
I just get pissy when i see reli-nonsense and status or benefits it still has or gets. So i like making fun or offending all the dipshits that have the need for fairytales.
@sonykroket Look moron, you obviously believe in something, whether you believe there is no god, or you believe in god but you don't believe in Christ, etc etc., I could go on & on, but you believe in SOMETHING. Anyway, enjoy whatever that belief is.
@sonykroket I assume you don't actually. I'm merely hoping what I said will get you to think for just a moment, because that's all it really takes to find out what an insecure hopeless loser you are.
Who says i was an atheist? I attack some of them as well ans i make fun of dorkies who think they're an authority on judging who's a good atheist or not blabla
I'll act just like i want to. Ali McG is spewing complete irrational nonsense and i think he's full of shit, let alone he's an even bigger idiot for claiming to be a reli-muppet
I also think ali McG is a liar with his 'i was an atheist but i became reli-nugget". He talks about his fairytale of choice like he's been doing it for a lifetime already.
Religious people are the biggest liars on the planet.
these two men are educated and talking in a respectable manner, you dont sound very intellectual at all, i dont agree or disagree with you, cause you havent said anything you believe, only what you disagree with and your opinion of one of the men. I have respect for both of these men because they have a much higher understanding of what they are talking about than most of the people on the planet. Debates are very important to learning
@sonykroket I don't think he's straight up lying, I think he probably was raised christian and went through a phase where he considered himself an atheist, but that this was mainly just because he couldn't reconcile his beliefs with all the terrible things Christians have done historically. So this is really the main point he's debating against, as he never really experienced a more rationally grounded atheism.
People like Ali Mc G consider themselves an atheist because they doubted their fairytale for 5 mins in their lives. He talks like the pope and should be honest about being a bible-kisser 24/7.
Assholes like him are only here to try to raise doubt, not have a debate about BS you can't even debate about because it's just well, BS
These fuckos are the most dangerous people on the planet because you have to turn around to see them coming.
who's gonna refute me? i can put any of your arguments to bed without dinner. remember to be a good christian. there's no need for personal attacks. my basis is simple. there is no evidence that your christian god, or any other, exists. there just isn't. i bet i can point out a damnable sin committed by any christian who is brave enough to argue. but of course they're all brave, they believe in superstitious magic with no rational foundation. that's pretty brave
@stephven51 have you even read into into the subject? Read some books before you claim anything. And no, Sciensce, which I love, I am extremely interested in space exploration and physics and been it for a long time, so i am NOT against sciense and one thing you should understand, Science dwells into the natural world, not (!) the Super-natural. So it is kinda hard to make scientific "evidence" for a God.
@stephven51 But there is many good arguments for God's existance and just reading testemonies about lives being changed radically by believing God can also be convincing to some degree. I recomend you to start with the famous book "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis,who once were an Atheist but turned Christian and explains why and gives good arguments.
...there does not have to be an almighty powerful god to tell us whats right and wrong. christians are some of the most hypocritical people on earth. i challenge anyone to find a single christian who abides strictly by the ten commandments or loves thy neighbor. i'm a more genuinely nice person than most christians i know. and i don't do nice things because i think i'll get into heaven. i do them because it helps create a better world. that's my morals, and they didn't come from god
i just watched a debate where a christian doctor said that god will not condemn people who have not been able to hear the word of god, due to geographical separation and whatnot. he said that god may save them judging by how they live their lives. this contradicts christians who believe that morals can only be instilled by god. how can a man lead a moral life worthy of heaven without knowledge of god? the answer is that throughout the years, humans have learned whats right and wrong...
I used to be reigious....somewhat ( like most I guess) and I'm not sure what I believe now.....not god thats for sure. Most religions teach the children that they are little "shit heads" ( born of sin) and I'm not sure I like that....thats abusive!
@bermudaguy1 I don't think it is about making you feel like "shit head", just look at humanity itself, we as a race is so destructive to the degree where we are destroying our own planet! So humanity itself is not that "good". What Christianity teaches is more about how the human nature is so sinful and destructible, but EVEN after all humanity have done, waging war, practising hate, killing, raping, discriminating and so fourth, the list could be made long.. God still loves us all
@thetraceur123 If what you say is true....and the majority of the world iscommitting these "crimes of nature" ....to whom are ascribing these problems? The church has much to answer for over the centuries and I think the world has had enough of what religion has to teach.God, on the other hand, is not only found through the church....not at all! Perhaps "shit head" is appropriate for children with low self esteem. I doubt you know what your god is thinking anyway. Keep your church to yourself!
@bermudaguy1 I don't even go to church, I don't like churches often. They get their subjective view and can get the power to manipulate and decieve many, and by that mislead many from the real purpose. So don't say "Keep your church to yourself", because I don't like most of them and don't even go to one myself. The importance is to have a relationship with God, not going to church because someone says so. I was an Atheist not long ago and still holds almost the same view on the church
LETS MAKE THIS CLEAR THERE IS NO ONE GOOD BUT GOD ! BUT HE LOVES ANY MAN THAT DO GOOD TO HIS FELLOW BROTHER . BUT REMEMBER SCIENCE IS AGAINST GOD . GOD IS NOT AGAINST SCIENCE . BECAUSE IF A DOCTOR CAN SAVE A MANS LIFE . THEN DONT YOU THINK THAT GOD WILL APROVE ? GOD LET THE EVIL AND THE GOOD WAKE UP IN THE MORNING . SO WHAT KIND OF GOD DO WE HAVE . A GOOD GOD THAT EVEN LOVES THE ATHEISTE EVEN NO HE SLANDERS HIS NAME . WHEN EVERY ONE IS GIVEN A CHANCE TO CHANGE THEN HE WILL RETURN . AMAN !
Did you know that the "old testament" says even Evil comes from God (YHWH)? I'll bet you didn't. And also that your Christian books follow Rabbinical bans on the name of God, which is YHWH. Take a look at Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things." God said He creates good and evil. Another example where he sends an "angel" (Host of Heaven, like HaSatan) to be a lying spirit (i.e. do evil) is 1 Kings 22:20-23
@JewishResearchGuy SO TELL ME WHAT DO THIS MEAN . THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO NO . DOSE IT CHANGE THE FACTS . NO IT DO NOT . THE FACT IS WITH OUT GOD WE ARE LOST AND YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE . FOLLOW GOD , YHWH, JEHOVAH , THE ALFA AND THE OMEGA , THE BEING AND THE END, THE BREAD OF LIFE . THAT IS THE FACT THAT ME AND YOU AND THE WORLD HAS TO DILL WITH .
Please learn to spell. In addition to that, you've skipped the points. You are saying God is only Good, but He said Himself that He is also Evil - everything comes from Him...Good and Evil. There is no need, according to the Tanakh, for a "devil". There is No Adversary to God. According to the Hebrew, even the "Angel of Yehovah (YHWH)" stands as a Satan (Numbers 22:22). You're understanding of who God is, is completely flawed.
@thinkalott33 what? Could you please use a dictionary, do you mean "to know God is real" or ???.... Either way your boogeyman needs a hero. No boogeyman - No Hero... No Satan - No God ...we have no one to blame but ourselves for our deeds the sooner we realize this the sooner we fix our broken world. Stop erecting walls.
It is ironic that you have a screenname of "thinkalott...", considering that's exactly what you DON'T do...*think*. The concept of "the devil" isn't even in the Tanakh ("old testament"). That mentality is inserted by Greek/Roman thought. There is HaSatan ("satan"), but that's very different from "the devil" concept. "Hasatan" (In Hebrew "the accuser" or "adversary" is merely one of the Hosts of Heaven at the command of YHWH ("God"). So much more, but not enough room to write
@JewishResearchGuy So you try to inpress me with your bible knowledge . but not noing it only makes you look worser . even satan or the devil what ever you want to call him . can quote the bible back wards and forward . so what dose that mean . that means you can no the bible back wards and forward and still be LOST !
Again, you're not thinking, even though your screenname implies that you do.Stop, pause, stop being haughty and prideful, get off your high-horse, and just peacefully THINK for a minute.You base everything you believe off the Bible, and I am showing you FROM the BIBLE that your understanidng of WHO GOD IS, is Completely Flawed.Then when I prove that to you, you have some clever yet baseless saying that despite me showing you from the Bible you don't know God, somehow I'm in error
@JewishResearchGuy BEING FULL OF PRIDE IS NOT WHAT WE STAND FOR . BECAUSE GOD TEACHES US TO BE HUMBLE . THE GREATEST OF YOU WILL BE THE SERVENTS . AND THE SERVENTS WILL BE THE GREATEST . TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG COULD NEVER CHANGE WHO YOU ARE . I AM HERE TO DEFEND A GREAT A LOVING GOD . THAT LETS US ALL LIVE . AND IS WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO HAVE US BACK . THERE WAS A PRICE THAT WAS PAYED FOR US . IF YOU LOOSE A CHILD . AND SOME ONE GIVES YOU A PRICE . WOULD YOU NOT BUY YOUR SON BACK ?
The pride I'm talking about is the fact that you're too busy writing, writing, writing, and not stopping, pausing, reading, and thinking, and keeping in your mind that the possibility you could be wrong is a real one, and if you TRULY LOVED GOD, you would make darn sure what you believe is inline with who HE is, and NOT what you WANT Him to be. God made stipulations for who the messiah must be, so we would know the Truth from falsity, in the Tanakh. Jesus did not fulfill these!
SO TELL ME WHO IS MAN THAT GOD HAS TO ANSWER TO HIM . IF GOD HAD TO ANSWER TO MAN . HE WOULDNT BE GOD . AND YOU ASK WHY SHOULD WE FEAR GOD . WHO WILL OBAY ANYTHING WITH OUT FEAR ? IF YOU DONT FEAR THE LAW . WILL YOU FOLLOW IT ? NO YOU WILL NOT . BUT IF YOU FEAR THE LAW . AND YOU DONT WANT TO GO TO PRISON . YOU WILL FOLLOW THE LAW . AND YES MAN HAS TO HAVE FEAR TO FOLLOW GOD . LOOK AT THE ATHEIST . HE DO NOT FEAR GOD . AND THATS WHY HE DOSE NOT OBAY THE LAW OF GOD . SO FEARING GOD IS A GOOD !
@thinkalott33 You might want to have a talk with the US prision population of which about 98% are religious :) and.......simmer down,..... I know you want seconds on the corn dogs,........ BUT there's no reason to shout.........
@Cougar139tweak OH . so now we have to talk like some 5 years olds . ok so let me change my frame of mine . ooops sorry i cant do that im to old for that . when your staring death in the face like any man you will cry out for God !
@thinkalott33 "WHO WILL OBAY ANYTHING WITH OUT FEAR IF YOU DONT FEAR THE LAW . WILL YOU FOLLOW IT ??" This tells me alot about your own moral compass, so if something is not against the law and it is evil you will do it? Just for fun? This argument is pretty tired. So the only reason you follow the law is fear? This makes you nothing more than a chained dog. agere sequitur credere!! woof woof
@Cougar139tweak SO I GUESS WERE IN THE SAME BOAT BECUASE YOU OBAY THE LAW OF THE LAND . SO I GUESS THAT MAKES YOU A TRAINED DOG TO . YOUR WORDS DONT MOVE ME . YOUR JUST A MAN THAT CAN BLEED JUST LIKE ME . WHAT CAN YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE OFFER ME ! NOTHING BECUASE THE VERY LIFE YOU HAVE IS NOT YOURS . ONLY THE PANE AND UNHAPPYNESS THAT RULES YOUR LIFE . WISHING YOU WERE FREE BUT YOU ARE A SLAVE TO YOUR PANE . AND MONEY SCIENCE AND THE LUYS YOU TELL YOUR SELF COULD NEVER CHANGE THAT .
thinkalott33, I haven't followed all of your conversations, but it seems you are defending the Bible? So you believe it is the holy inspired inerrant word of God? Let's take a look at your "new testament"; Jesus was supposed to fulfill all the prophecies in my book, the Tanakh, which you call the "old testament", correct? Well, one requirement is the messiah of the latter days must come from King David and his son Solomon. What was Jesus' genealogy? Matt 1:1-17 or Luke 3:23-38 ??
@thinkalott33 Why do you assume I'm unhappy? I'm quite happy, sounds like your a bit upset though. Why are you so worried about my windows? Weird. I'm free as I live in Austrailia my guess is that you don't live here as most of my friends know how to operate the Caps Lock button quite proficiently, where do you reside? Look I hope you are happy and would not wish ill of you. You have a lot of hate rumbling around and honestly you should talk to someone about it.
@thinkalott33 I obay because it is correct to do so, I'm intellegent enough I could get away with breaking many laws but I won't. Why? Because I have a moral compass. Their are times I would break laws. Like during WWII in Germany and during the Civil War if I still lived in Texas. However in the same breath had I been a christian raised in either time I would have most likely been brainwashed to believe that our side was just. Got mit Uns. believing in god doesn't automatically = Good
So which is the law of God? Jewish Law? (And in that, just the written, or also the oral?) Christian "law"? (which really doesn't exist.) Muslim sharia law? Which law is God's law? Your god, or Muslims, or Hindu's, or Buddhists...whose? And while you're thinking about that question, next answer this please: you say there is only one god, and that the New Covenant has come with Jesus, right? How is that, when Jeremiah 31:31-34 says with the N.C. EVERYONE will know who God is
@JewishResearchGuy It,s very clever how you and others try to pend one faith against another . but this is your answer . The God that tells you to the love all . the God that say no matter what color you are you are welcome . the God that tells you not to kill your fellow brother no matter what . the GOD THAT TELLS YOU TO PRAY FOR YOUR ENIMIES ! .thats the God im talking about . aman !
@Cougar139tweak I see that the devil has blessed your toung . because your luys are like i have never herd of . wich i wish you could be in my shoes and wonder what i think af what you just said . to be free and to be happy are two diffirent things . yes God blesses the evil and good with joy . becuase he lets the son rise on the evil and the good . he lets the evil and the good eat from the trees of the earth . and drink the crystle clear watar . but you are not free from the power of sin
@thinkalott33 I see that God did not bless you with a spell check :) Also you appear to be under the effect of some mind altering drug or perhaps a brain injury of some sort after reading that horrible "poetry" you just spouted. Power of sin? Sure you are a christian?
Don't know what you're talking about when you say "it's very clever how you and others try to pend one faith against another". That's exactly what you are doing, because you are saying Christianity is superier to all others; that Christianity is "the right way" or even "the only way". You need to think about your own words! You talk about God as if you know Him, and yet you don't even know the scriptures your base your beliefs on, which prove your version of God is false!
@JewishResearchGuy second answer . you did not read that right . it said no more will a person have to say to another person . get to no GOD . So what he is saying is people want have to do that any more . you want have to preach to people any more about who God is . because you will aready no him . because he will be right there living and having a relation ship with the people . And he will no longer be a stranger to the people . Because now they will no him .
Actually, I did read Jeremiah 31:31-34 correctly, even though you're telling me I didn't. You quoted EXACTLY what my point was. You're trying to prove your beliefs are accurate because "everyone will know Him, and no more will anyone go around saying know Him", yet more missionaries are sent today than all throughout history!!! Isn't that what they're doing, saying "know God" to those people who they claim "don't know Him" because they have disparate beliefs about who God is!?
@JewishResearchGuy THEN YOU SHOULD NO WHAT GOD IS TRYING TO DO . GIVE EVRY ONE A CHANCE TO NO HIM . BECAUSE THERE IS MANY THAT DO NOT NO HIM . AND SOME ONE IN ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD WILL FOLLOW HIM . AND NEVER LETHIM GO . AND AS YOU NO THE BIBLE SAYS HE THAT MAKES IT TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . SO WE CANT GIVE IN AND FALL TO THE POWERS OF THE WORLD . AND YOU ALSO NO THAT JESUS SAID HE THAT SAVES HIS LIFE WILL LOOSE IT . AND HE THAT LOOSE HIS LIFE FOR ME . WILL FIND IT . AMAN !
Ok, that last post made no sense at all. The Tanakh (the scriptures) do say everyone will come to the mountain in the end times and know who Yehovah (YHWH) is, but that will be at the end. (i.e. Isaiah 1 and 2, when all weapons will be turned into farming tools, and everyone will be in peace). You keep claiming Jesus is God, which is blasphemy according to the Tanakh. Read: Deut. 18:21-22. Jesus wasn't of the propher lineage to be king (see Matt 1 and Luke 3). There is much more!
@JewishResearchGuy dont you think i did all of my thinking before i went with God . do you think i just woke up and said im going to do this . and my mother a my father were not church people . i found God on my own . but if i am wrong i loose nothing . because there is no God to punish me . if you are wrong . you loose everything !
Again, your response proves you're NOT thinking, because you've attributed Atheism to me, so you obviously haven't paid any attention to me whatsoever. Just like you haven't paid attention to the Bible. I don't care what you think you found on your own. I don't care what your parents believed, though that is the normal trend, that people believe what they're raised with. I personally DO believe in God...just not YOUR God. According to the Tanakh, there is no "hell"! U don't kno
@JewishResearchGuy so then you no there will be a day when jesus returns because that was spoking of the also . and when you see that thing standing in the holy place . i am at the door
thinkalot, thinkalot, thinkalot...You're NOT THINKING!! What are you talking about my friend?!? The response you made, made no sense in realtion to the previous comment. If Jesus was God, he would've "returned" in the same lifetime as those who were standing there before him (see Mark 13:27-30, for example).
Since you don't care about what the Bible says, or who God is, or care enough to actually read what I write, I'm not going to continue wasting my time on you.
Again, you're not paying attention to what's written in the Bible, or what I'm writing.
Why did you say "It's at the end of the Bible", when Jesus said in Mark 13:27-30 that all those events would take place DURING THE LIFETIMES OF THOSE PEOPLE STANDING RIGHT THERE BEFORE HIM -- *THAT* GENERATION!!
(Did me writing in caps help you see what the point is more clearly? I see you always write in caps, so I'm trying to do the same more often to make things more clear to you.
@JewishResearchGuy isnt that the same thing they told jesus . wasnt that the same reason they nailed him to the cross . so you would of nailed him to the cross for sayng he had the power to forgive sins .
1) Isn't "WHAT" the same they told Jesus? The same reason they nailed him to the cross? You're not clear when you write, so it's difficult to understand what you are saying. Do you mean because he wasn't of the lineage? They never claimed "you weren't of the lineage of David and that's why we're crucifying you". The NT is quite antisemitic actually, especially the gospel of John. This was written by Romans, and with over 5,000 manuscripts of the NT, NO TWO are the same!
2) Again, if Jesus WERE God, or were SENT by God, then God would've made it VERY clear, by having Jesus (i.e. Himself??) fulfill all the prophecies/stipulations that HE (GOD) declared through the prophets. The point of prophecy is so that we WILL know who is of God and who is not of God. So we're SUPPOSED to compare to the prophecies. I have, and have seen that Jesus is not of God. You obviously haven't, and still haven't answered my questions about the genealogies!!!
@JewishResearchGuy So let me ask you this because even steven king could never write a story like the bible . so are you saying that not of the bibles prophecys ever came true ?
I never said none of the Bible's prophecies came true. I never said that at all. I said that Jesus was not the fulfillment of the prophecies. In fact, most of the "new testament's" claims of prophecy fulfillments were ALREADY fulfilled in the Tanakh itself, because it was a prophecy by God for the people at that time. Case in point, Matt 1:21-23 says Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 7:14, yet Isaiah 7 is a prophecy for King Ahab, and is fulfilled by Isaiah's son Emmanuel in Isaiah 8.
@JewishResearchGuy why do you think it was called the misterys of heaven . do you remember in revilations when they were looking for some one that was worthy to shedd there blood for man kind . but they couldnt find no one on earth . or in heaven that had the blood that could cover mans sin ! thats because something perfect has to shedd ther blood to cover sin . and remeber the bible said there is no one perfect but God .
Where in the Tanakh does it say that "they" (whoever "they" are) were looking for someone perfect to shed blood for man kind? That's NO WHERE in the "old testament"!!!! Show it to me!!! You are speaking out of your butt; you don't know what you're saying, you're just talking meaningless words because you assume you're right, rather than verifying you are right. Thus, you prove you don't love God; you don't care enough about God to seek with your WHOLE heart!! Shame!!
Also, if you're implying that "mysteries" let you say anything you want about God, then I'll let you to deal with him yourself in the end. I just showed you by GOD'S MOUTH and Prophet that the prophecy was fulfilled in the "old testament", while Romans (the "4th kingdom" in Daniel's prophecy) created Christianity and in it said Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 7 as if something that happened 800 years before Jesus had anything to do with him. Yet instead of seeing what God said, you ignore
@JewishResearchGuy well you no that some people can read the same thing and see it in a diffirent way . thats why all of Gods people need to sit at the table and come the the true meaning . because we no that satan is trying to twist us all . but you no so much about the bible . do you beleave in everything it says . or do you beleave God is a bad person ?
*sigh* These conversations are hard enough when you are not consistent and don't pay attention to what's written; we can't reason together at all. But the thing that makes it especially difficult is that all these separate conversation are broken up into small sections with limited space to write, and chaotically spread across the page, so it's difficult to follow.
If you actually love God and Truth, you can feel free to write me via Youtube Email, and we can talk more.
@JewishResearchGuy AND ALSO REMEMBER WHEN THEY TOOK JESUS . THEY TOOK HIM TO ONE OF THE KINGS . BECUASE THEY WERE TRYING TO KILL JESUS . AND ONE OF THE KINGS SAID IS THIS THE MAN EVERY ONE IS SO MAD OVER . AND THAT KING ASKED JESUS WAS HE A KING . AND JESUS SAID YES . BUT MY KINDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD . SO WHAT KINDOM WAS JESUS SPEAKING OF . HE WAS SPEEKING OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN . BUT HOLD UP . GOD IS THE KING OF HEAVEN ! SO HOW COULD JESUS BE KING AND GOD BE THE KING OF HEAVEN ?
Ugh, your nonesensical arguments are painstakingly tiring. If you even looked at the scriptures for a second with real intent to know God, we could have meaningful conversations. Look, here, I'll say this to you: "I am God in the flesh; worship me, for my kingdom is not of this world." According to your logic, because I said it, you must not accept it and worship me as God. So then, bow down thinkalott!! OR, do you want to pay attention to prophecies God gave? So far you haven't.
Only the small minded would need to try to categorize someone else. That's something the small minded do in order to strategize how they will launch their attack against that person. Identify/categorize someone so you know their strengths and weaknesses, then attack where vulnerable. I am a person who loves God and Truth. If you want to talk about Truth and God, I am game. Only, be consistent, and actually pay attention to what's written. So far, you haven't been doing that.
@JewishResearchGuy he did not mean that in mark . he said there will be people that will not taste death when i return . if that be the case jesus would of came back a long time ago . he was saying when he comes back there will still be people living .
Wow, are you God thinkalott!? Now you are telling the Bible what it means? The Bible said someething clearly in plain reading, and now you are saying "well, he didn't really mean that". That is very dangerous ground to tell God what he meant, if indeed the NT were the word of God. And you are violating God's commandments, which says not to add to or remove from that which is written (Deut. 4:2, 12:32, etc)
Mark 13:27-30 cleary says Jesus would return within their lifetimes
How do I do what? Please provide full questions so I can know what in the world you are talking about.
However, it's really late, and we've been going back and forth for hours, so I am tired and going to bed. If you want to continue a conversation about God and Truth -- if you are SINCERE and want to seek Him with your WHOLE HEART -- then you can write me in Youtube Email. Otherwise, I'm pretty much done writing on this chaotic message boards.
"As soon as you define God, you limit God. Any image of God is a limitation. If God is infinite, then God is beyond your imagination, because you cannot imagine the infinite; you cannot imagine the universe that has no beginning in time; a universe that has no ending of time; a universe that has no edges in space. God is ineffable; the greatest mystery of existence. For you to define God and to give simple qualities is to limit God." - Deepak Chopra. (You need to start thinking!)
@ 0:35 the oppisite argument is made by Sam Harris regarding not all Nazis are bad.... It's the Nazi's that take it seriously that are the problem, old grandmothers that like to see their grandchilden in the cute uniforms and aren't interested in the purity of German blood......It is about the written word (regarding Christianity) and that word is genocidal and racist.
Thats not what the bible says Mc grath. the bible says that you are useless sinding person, and this world is just a preparation. Kinda like a wating room.
Allister McGrath said at 2:33 said that Jesus never did violence to someone else, but only had violence to him. But the Bible disagrees with him (John 2:14-15; Matthew 21:12; Mark 11:15-16). This is just one event that comes to my mind right off the top of my head. People promote things in the Bible the way they want them to be, rather than how they really are. I agree with Dawkins; I want the Truth, regardless of what it is. I don't know what it is personally, but I do know what it is not!
@JewishResearchGuy More proof fundamentalists don't actually read the bible.... which makes them ignorant, It would be pretty sweet if God expects his true followers to have read the Bible and remember whats in it, If so I think we'd be pretty lonely "up there" :) All I'd have to say is "I've read it, but.... I've got to tell you... I'm a bit dissapointed in your work."
I personally believe there *could* be a god, or some form of higher power "out there". The universe is too amazing and we haven't explored but a fraction of it; can't say definitively one way or the other. But yeah, the "holy texts" on Earth are nothing more than man-made texts developed in pieces over time and changed later to fit what posterity wanted them to say, etc. Most christians don't know the Bible, and those that do know it either lie, or are brain-washed believers
@JewishResearchGuy I agree with all of that as long as the "higher power" is not in the job of micro management as this takes responsibilities of actions and puts them back where they belong, on the person who made them and not on a Boogieman (satan) or a helping hand (God). I think it is a positive thing that we can cherry pick, however the denial that "we" do is the problem. Your arguement is one of I don't know, which is honest and scientific. And anyone who says they do know,is lying or nuts
NOW I SEE . THERE IS NO REASON TO REALY DEBATE . BECUASE GOD SAID I WILL HARDING THERE HEARTS FOR THEY WANT BELEAVE . AND I WILL TURN THEM OVER TO THERE OWN WICKEDNESS ?
How do you know God isn't similar to a computer programmer outside the programming, and that the texts (Bible, Talmud, Koran, etc..) are similar to some sort of game genie-like interface?
How do you know God isn't similar to a computer programmer outside the programming, and that the texts (Bible, Talmud, Koran, etc..) are similar to some sort of game genie like interface?
all i have to say is that all this is predicted all threw the bible . and you say its just a book . you find me another book like it . but you cant . even the athiest was predicted in the bible . this ant nothing new . it say,s the fool say,s there is no God . right in front of your face . how plane can it get .
@RSVJosephV but it dose . because all the things . means more then one ! those things it speaks of do come true . and there is more to come . because its talks about the fall of babalon . wich is the united states . it say that babalon is the greatest of all nations . and every one feeds off of her . that can only be america . thats how we no that america is the baablon that the bible speeks of . and it said that she fell . and she became nothing . and all the nation looked apond her fall ?
@thinkalott33 Actually Babylon was a place in Mesopotamia in Ancient Iraq. Also, who feeds off America? If anything, it is Iraq (among other Middle-eastern countries) that is fed off for its oil by rich Western countries. Those Eastern countries are going to fall when they run out of oil, but just because the bible made a few predictions that came true does not mean it is all true.
The great flood never happened, a man never walked on water etc...
@RSVJosephV wow . so you have book thats shows you truth . and you say that its un true . are you realy thinking . but i gorgot the part in the bible . when it says a will harding there heart for the want beleave . and i will turn them over to there own wickeness .
@RSVJosephV That's a mouthful. First of all, are you sure The Great Flood was meant literally? And even if it was...is the evolution THEORY sufficient to disprove it?
And I hope you are aware of the primary sources in support of Jesus Christ as portrayed in the New Testament. And The body of man may not be able to walk on water, but God can enable it to. Yes...the same God that created the laws of nature and is not limited by them. Couldn't the programmer of Mario make Mario fly?
@Kynatics It depends on your interpretations, but I have no doubt the writers of the bible intended the readers to take it literally.
If by the primary sources of Jesus you mean his disciples then I am not sure they are reliable. If you are willing to take the word of people who died thousands of years ago that someone walked on water, then why will you not take Charles Darwin's word on evolution?
Also, a theory isn't a hypothesis. To become a theory, an idea must be backed up by evidence.
@RSVJosephV You have no doubt? That is very prideful of you. You think it's literal because you think it was written by man as opposed to by God THROUGH man. And of course you don't believe in God...so that puts you in a loop.
But if you took the bible figuratively for just a second, you'd realize that whether or not they manage to decisively prove the 'common ancestor', it does not disprove God because God said that he created everything...he didn't say how.
@Kynatics The Bible specifically says God created a man and a woman, which immediately shits on evolution. It is also said to be the word of God, and why would God want to invent a story in which he kills everyone on the planet (besides Noah's familly) all for the sake of making a point? That isn't a rhetorical question by the way.
@RSVJosephV At the time that the bible was written, people were utterly ignorant. What sense would it have made for God to document the science of creation? Of course he made it into a story where the only thing to take away is that God is omnipotent!
As for the Noah story, the bible itself says "The Lord is a jealous and avenging God". It is NOT contradictory with his goodness. God hates sin. And the first of the deadly sins: pride. Pride makes you deny God. The punishment: eternal suffering.
@Kynatics It would have made perfect sense to document the science of creation. Why would a loving God want his people to have hundreds of years of ignorance when he could easily tell them what they needed to know in the book they all follow?
The bible says God is omnibenevolent, combined with omnipotence that means he is as loving as possible as often as possible - which for God is extremely kind 100% of the time. To create hell knowing that he would send people for eternity is NOT kind.
@RSVJosephV What?? Science was not even in its diapers back then! They were still mystified by fire and trees! The science of creation would have sounded like sorcery. But he had to write the bible then because if he had waited till science had caught up...humans would have been utterly Godless by then. So yes, he has a reason for writing it when he did and a reason for making it sound like a kids' story.
@Kynatics Science is simply a way of explaining the natural world, are you telling me God was to stupid to understand the Laws he was setting? By the way the current version of creation, IS SORCERY! By the way who's this "He" that wrote the bible because I've got news for you it wasn't God.
@RSVJosephV As for the second part...are you actually defining kindness to GOD? How incredibly presumptuous! He is kind and merciful to all who choose (freewill) to believe in him. But if you're going about your life doing your own thing telling God that he doesn't exist...isn't that asking for it? Salvation is by faith...ALL he asks is that you believe in him, and eternal life is yours. Who are you to say that you don't deserve eternal death for not believing in him?
@Kynatics He asks not only that you belive in him but that you worship him... and what right does he have to be worshipped? He has infinite amounts of power over me... but does that mean something like an ant should worship a human? He supposedly created me... so should my son worship me? Just for the record, an eternity in heaven worshipping God is my idea of hell.
@RSVJosephV What RIGHT?? He doesn't just have power over you, he MADE you. The human-ant metaphor is a power metaphor. Yes, the ant should not have to worship you. But if you made a pot of clay, should it not do everything you made it to do (sit still)? God created you with freewill (the ability to choose), so you have the option of disrespecting him like you do. But does he not have the right to punish you based on the CHOICE you made?
@RSVJosephV As for your son, you did not make him. You had sex, don't give yourself too much credit. You wouldn't even BEGIN to know how to assemble a human being. So yeah...your son should respect you for everything that you do to provide for him, but he should not worship you simply for having sex and producing him as an effect.
@Kynatics So God did more to create Adam and Eve than I did to create my son, that's true. However, how does that give God more of a claim to worship? As you say, a certain amount of respect should probably be given... although when I look at some of the things this all-kind God made it's hard to think of him as worthy of respect. If I am going to be tortured for eternity by fires in the pit of hell then God had this planned long before I was born, so I'm not thanking him for my meals.
@RSVJosephV God is not a governor; he is a creator. The only reason you can even THINK about "good" and "bad" is because he allowed for you to do so. Think of the alternative: if God had created you without freewill, like an animal, just eating and being eaten. Life would just be something you instinctively preserved but could never analyze. But God granted you the ability to live above instinct. You should worship him because EVERYTHING, including your ability to deny God, was created BY God.
@Kynatics It's not easy to explain, but you can't just decide to change your faith (or lack of). I couldn't just decide to become a theist and believe there is a man in the sky, I would need to be shown evidence, like there is evidence for the big bang, and overwhelming evidence for evolution.
It would be difficult for you to change your faith, but it's easier to go from theism to atheism than the other way round.
@RSVJosephV It's hard to explain from my side as well because it's not something I arrived at intellectually. It just struck me in a moment of enlightenment a couple of weeks ago. Before that I didn't give a damn about God.
I would really like to chat with you about these things. If you have gmail, we could chat on there.
Freewill cannot exist in a universe that has an omnipotent,omniscient creator. If such a being exists, than he already knows, from the moment of the creation of this universe, exactly what you are going to do throughout your lifetime. This renders the very idea of freewill ludicrous, because if "God" already knows what you are going to do every second of every day of your life, from before you were born, than you have ZERO choice in the making of those choices.
@IamTHEDeadFrog Yes. You are absolutely right. God gave humans and even Satan freewill (as opposed to animals, that live by instinct) and he knew exactly what choices we would make. SO WHAT? He is omniscient! He can't help knowing everything! Do you think denying his existence puts you outside of his knowledge? Do you think "spontaneity" throws him off? News flash! That's still a choice and he still knows. Be wise and humble yourself.
That was exactly my point, it seems you not only fail at logic, but have difficulty with reading comprehension as well.
If "God" already knows the outcome of every event and choice you are going to make within your lifetime, AND he possesses such knowledge prior to your existence, than you are not deciding for yourself what to do, rather you are fulfilling a predetermined fate.
if your fate is predetermined, than "free will" cannot exist.
@IamTHEDeadFrog Freewill is from YOUR point of view! From God's point of view, yes, it is the fulfillment of a "predetermined fate". Freewill means not being a slave to instincts like animals are; it does NOT mean you are above fate. It is the difference between Man and other life. To say freewill does not exist is to say that you can not choose to kill yourself, starve yourself, refuse to mate, or contradict any other instincts that animals abide by.
@Kynatics If God (christian) is omniscient than why didn't he abolish slavery and condemn it from the start? He knew the ancestors of the malachites would spawn an evil society, why not nip it in the bud? Why did he allow the construction in the tower of babel? what was he afraid of anyway? The answer of these questions is quite simple, he doesn't exist. No need for me to humble myself to a figment of someone elses imagination just in case your imaginary friend might "condemn" me.
@Cougar139tweak It's bewildering why Atheists jump to attacking the character of God. Either there is a God or there is no God; if you can't prove one, try disproving the other. They are mutually exclusive conditions, and you know that one of them has to be true. Your challenge is to explain the emergence and existence of nature. And don't just think of Evolution, think of the whole picture. If it makes sense to you, fantastic! But lay off the self-important scrutiny of God's morality, ok?
@Kynatics Actually I'm not disputing "God" per se but that of the "Christian god" Attacking the character of this god and all Abrahamic gods is quite easy. There is no challange in explaining one infinate complicated thing with another infinate even more unlikely thing. I will lay off "God's morality" as soon as those hypocritical ideas lay off me, as well as the rest of society. We've been silent for too long as it is, in the late 1400's this wouldn't be a discussion, I would be put to death.
@Cougar139tweak If people read "Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him", and "Love thy neighbor as yourself" and take it as a green light to commit atrocities, I don't understand how you see that as a hypocrisy in the bible and not a hypocrisy in men. Don't expect me to defend hypocrites of any period of time. I follow the example of Christ, not Christians. And you're right that God is infinitely unlikely in natural terms; almost as if he were SUPERnatural..
Problem is that if you feel you have a "personal relationship" with him like Hitler thought he did, it can lead to some "problems". You can find Thou shalt not kill but you can also find that God was a Genocidal nutjob as was Moses. God even picks Noah who goes on to get drunk and naked before his family and earlier in the Bible calls him "perfect" even though (God) he's omniscient? What's that about? This God of yours Special, yellow bus special that is!
@Cougar139tweak I wish I could get through one conversation without someone misusing the word "genocide". If you think it was wrong for God to punish Amalek for attacking the Israelites while they were at their weakest, roaming the wilderness in thirst, or the Egyptians for enslaving them, or the Amorites or Midianites or Ammonites or Philistines, then whatever works for you! And oh...you're right! God totally should've destroyed humanity altogether because Noah went on to get drunk one night.
@Kynatics You missed the point of regarding Noah and Noah's being seen as "perfect". God is Omniscient, meaning he can see the future. Point being he knew Noah wasn't perfect as he would "misbehave" later on. My point is whoever wrote this bit wasn't thinking clearly himself. Why must God continuously destroy when he could simply show himself as he does to Abraham and Noah? Instead he kills them including children. Yipes,
@Cougar139tweak God said "I have found you RIGHTEOUS in this generation." What's the difference between 'righteous' and 'perfect'? God knows you CAN'T be perfect.
@Kynatics Notice you didn't respond to the child killing...hmmmm, by the way "showing himself relates to the times in which this was *cough snicker* happening in, not the present, however that's probably just as relevent.
@Kynatics Read Leviticus over again my pious friend, it's a instruction manual on things people do and why they must die for it. Also remember "every jot and tittle?" he wasn't talking about Quarterbacks. Point being you can get any message you want out of the Bible from allowing people to eat from your fields without permission from you to killing someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day. They should have called it the Old book of endless contridictions.
@Cougar139tweak And it's 'Amalekites'. God didn't nip them in the bud because wickedness was a lifestyle they chose for themselves and their children. God doesn't prevent choice; he respects it, and he rewards or punishes it. Call it cause and effect. As for the Tower of Babel, he did not allow it to be built...that's kind of important. He scattered the people and confused their language so that they wouldn't be one united, corrupting body of wickedness he'd be tempted to completely wipe out.
@Kynatics God is omnipotent yes or no? That complicates things conciderably. This guy sure makes alot of mistakes doesn't he, good thing for him there wasn't a child walfare department back then after all we all "God's Children"? why does God change as time goes along? He knows what's going to happen, Jesus absolves it all then what's all this killing for? I think he just likes death, Jephthah proves as much. God doesn't intervene. Would you have intervined? Is your morality better than Gods:)
Chrisians and Muslims, aside from condemning eachother as heretical, want it every which way. If the universe is comprehensible this is proof that God exists. If it is incomprehensible this is proof God exists. Each religion regards itself as duty bound to spread its own doctrines and to regard those who don't accept them as hell bound.
ritchloui 3 months ago
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Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
SpencerBenedict2nd 3 months ago
Dawkins is critical of religious people producing weak and facile arguments, but that seems to be very similar to his followers (those who ascribe to Atheist fundamentalism). They simply parrot what he and others spout, with little if any thought of their own. If you look at religious message boards you'll see all the same arguments over and over.
xtriager 3 months ago
@xtriager No, the "founding fathers" excluded religion, enacting the separation of church and state to ensure first and foremost that the church would not be influenced by the state, as it was in the countries of origin. Second, to ensure that there would be no marriage of church and state which has historically been a bastardization of both and corrupting as well as corruptible. Religion is not necessarily married to politics and there are plenty of examples.
xtriager 3 months ago
Does McGarth deny, for one single moment, that if some fundamental Muslim or American redneck Christian got hold of a nuclear device they wouldnt use it. McGrath is the Bishop Wilberforce of the 21st century.
plonk220a 4 months ago
Same question to you, but with a crazy atheist instead of religious fundamentalists.
danwhittle 3 months ago in playlist Richard Dawkins & Alister McGrath Debate
@plonk220a Less likely given the christian tradition e.g. rusades, inquisition, persecutuon of Jews, persecution of women, forced conversion of South American peoples, African Slave Trade, supression of Hitler's persecution, prayers said for Hitler's birthdays by Vatican, rape of children in every corner of the earth, offical anti-semitism, refusal to allow condoms, Aids, street children living in sewers. Religion long ago lost the argument that Aethists don't have morals.
plonk220a 3 months ago
@plonk220a Another great example that confirms your point is Stalin... arguably murdered more people in his slaughters than all great genocides preceding him put together!
xtriager 3 months ago
@xtriager Yes Stalin's Russia was maintained on religious fantasies. But you know the religious and the aethists are simply people and all are capable of morality and evil; it is our nature as primates.
plonk220a 3 months ago
@plonk220a So you're abandoning the "Christian tradition" argument and making it a primate argument. OK. I would say it's more of a political argument. As soon as beliefs become political they seem to become a new monster, no matter the belief. I would argue it has everything to do with power. The "Christian tradition" you refer to has very little to do with the faithfulness to Jesus' teachings.
xtriager 3 months ago
@xtriager Do you really think religious beliefs are not political? You don't see any political implications of doctrines that insist unbelievers are destined for hell and must be 'saved' ie converted or killed? This is why the Founding Fathers went to such lengths explicitly EXCLUDE religious doctrines from being favoured above any others by Government. Not so much to provide freedom OF religion but freedom FROM religion. Religions claim to be about love, in fact they are tyrannical dogmas.
ritchloui 3 months ago
good defense ... Agree with defense . both sides. but the argument is ...
thomasey2 4 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
it gets to a point where Mc Grath doesn't care if its real or not, just the effect of it. which for me is confusing,,, if you want a good example to follow try watching cartoons like the power rangers or the famous teletubies, if it doesn't need to be real just have a good example you can use those.
Druiday 6 months ago
If I have a tyre blow out at 70mph and I miss the concrete post "its a miracle ! " When 250,000 people get drowned by a tsunami on a boxing day we shuffle our feet and bleat ah well the earth is suffering the pains of childbirth (shit happens)
acefreaky 6 months ago
McGrath speaks with elegance and says nothing offensive whatsoever. Yet so many comments contain venomous attacks on his character...idiot, liar, etc. Atheists have been known to become Christains and vice versa.
55k3v1n 7 months ago
McGrath's arguments are terrible. His entire view of the positives of religion is nothing but a description of Humanism. He doesn't answer the pivotal question of- why believe all the other nonsense religion teaches (supernatural) if you can get the non nonsense it teaches from Atheism too? It make no sense to put up with someone claiming virgin birth when all you really want is Humanism within mankind.
Wolfhaines 7 months ago in playlist Richard Dawkins & Alister McGrath Debate
I like the moderator better than either of them:)
crimerookie 9 months ago
Alister McGrath is awesome!! Right on!!
Loudmouf84 9 months ago
@Loudmouf84
Right about what? He's spewing superstitious reli-nonsense
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket That's you're opinion. My opinion is that he's right. Period. And it's not "superstitious."
Loudmouf84 9 months ago
@Loudmouf84
No he says what you preaching dorkies want to hear.
And yes it is superstitous.
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket No, he actually says much of what you closed-minded Atheists continue to reject, and much of what you have no understanding for.
And no, it’s not superstitious. You’re just a stubborn moron. Sorry
Loudmouf84 9 months ago
@Loudmouf84
I don;t think atheists reject anything. I think they're kinda waiting on some evidence instead of BS claims.
At least im not a bible-kissing douchebag like you
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket Waiting on evidence?? There is plenty out there. And I'm not a "Bible-kissing douchbag." Atheists reject every bit of explanation given to them by intelligent & educated followers of Jesus. This video is a perfect example.Btw, check out Ravi Zacharias, videos of him, read his books as well. You might get something out of it.
Loudmouf84 9 months ago
@Loudmouf84
Bronze-age scribblings and the dorkies that believe in it is not evidence. Also, anecdotal evidence and ignorance about the universe doesn't count either.
Ravi can suck my nonreli-balls, just another superstitious apologist that needs a deity to feel happy or special.
You really are a bible-douche
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket Ok well you obviously have everything figured out, so have fun believing whatever you believe. As far as the "bronze age scribblings," that isn't the evidence I was speaking of. Rather, I was referring to many events that have taken place that give credence to Biblical scriptures. But you obviously think it's all bullshit so go ahead and believe whatever you want. Oh, and keep rejecting everything Christians tell you, as you are doing with me now. You have it all figured out
Loudmouf84 9 months ago
@Loudmouf84
What fuckin many events in the bible happend, you superstitious dorkie? I'll tell you how many.....ZERO!!You idiots love seeing shit that isnt there because you need a skymoron deluxe to feel special
I wipe my ass with scripture as it has more use as toiletpaper.
And if i dont have to take a shit, i'll use it as a table-leveller or a tool to heat up the fireplace.
You=reli-douche
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket
Were you violated by a catholic priest? Or are you simply naturally bitter and ignorant?
tycruise 8 months ago
@tycruise
None of the above.
I just get pissy when i see reli-nonsense and status or benefits it still has or gets. So i like making fun or offending all the dipshits that have the need for fairytales.
You must be an idiot
sonykroket 8 months ago
Loudmouf84: "so have fun believing whatever you believe.""
Hey dickbrain, didn't i just tell you i don't have the need to believe in anything you worshipping maggots do?
I guess it's hard for you bible-muppets to understand not all of us need fairytales.
Pay attention, you reli-knuckle
sonykroket 9 months ago
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@sonykroket Look moron, you obviously believe in something, whether you believe there is no god, or you believe in god but you don't believe in Christ, etc etc., I could go on & on, but you believe in SOMETHING. Anyway, enjoy whatever that belief is.
Loudmouf84 9 months ago 3
@sonykroket Intolerance is a sign of insecurity. You should look at yourself closely, you've got some problems to sort out.
JessAtlas 9 months ago
@JessAtlas
You assume i give a crap what you think.
Think again, dumbass
sonykroket 9 months ago
@sonykroket I assume you don't actually. I'm merely hoping what I said will get you to think for just a moment, because that's all it really takes to find out what an insecure hopeless loser you are.
JessAtlas 9 months ago
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sonykroket 9 months ago
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sonykroket 9 months ago
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sonykroket 9 months ago
@JessAtlas
Bla bla and even more bla. Got anything interesting or smart to say? Funny then?
Who cares, clown
sonykroket 9 months ago
@JessAtlas
At least have the balls to make it a reply, you chicken
sonykroket 8 months ago
@sonykroket Don't act like a typical cliché Youtube-Atheist because someone doesn't agree with you.
thetraceur123 8 months ago
@thetraceur123
Who says i was an atheist? I attack some of them as well ans i make fun of dorkies who think they're an authority on judging who's a good atheist or not blabla
I'll act just like i want to. Ali McG is spewing complete irrational nonsense and i think he's full of shit, let alone he's an even bigger idiot for claiming to be a reli-muppet
sonykroket 8 months ago
@thetraceur123
I also think ali McG is a liar with his 'i was an atheist but i became reli-nugget". He talks about his fairytale of choice like he's been doing it for a lifetime already.
Religious people are the biggest liars on the planet.
sonykroket 8 months ago
@sonykroket
these two men are educated and talking in a respectable manner, you dont sound very intellectual at all, i dont agree or disagree with you, cause you havent said anything you believe, only what you disagree with and your opinion of one of the men. I have respect for both of these men because they have a much higher understanding of what they are talking about than most of the people on the planet. Debates are very important to learning
jonwalliser 8 months ago
@jonwalliser
I dont care how i sound or what you think of me, Youtube isn't a popularity contest for me.
And i still think Ali McG is a lying piece of shit with his crap about being an atheist once.
So there ya go, lol
sonykroket 8 months ago
@sonykroket I don't think he's straight up lying, I think he probably was raised christian and went through a phase where he considered himself an atheist, but that this was mainly just because he couldn't reconcile his beliefs with all the terrible things Christians have done historically. So this is really the main point he's debating against, as he never really experienced a more rationally grounded atheism.
tokataro 8 months ago
@tokataro
People like Ali Mc G consider themselves an atheist because they doubted their fairytale for 5 mins in their lives. He talks like the pope and should be honest about being a bible-kisser 24/7.
Assholes like him are only here to try to raise doubt, not have a debate about BS you can't even debate about because it's just well, BS
These fuckos are the most dangerous people on the planet because you have to turn around to see them coming.
sonykroket 8 months ago
@jonwalliser
BTW what debate?
I see apologetics, that's hardly a debate
sonykroket 8 months ago
who's gonna refute me? i can put any of your arguments to bed without dinner. remember to be a good christian. there's no need for personal attacks. my basis is simple. there is no evidence that your christian god, or any other, exists. there just isn't. i bet i can point out a damnable sin committed by any christian who is brave enough to argue. but of course they're all brave, they believe in superstitious magic with no rational foundation. that's pretty brave
stephven51 10 months ago
@stephven51 have you even read into into the subject? Read some books before you claim anything. And no, Sciensce, which I love, I am extremely interested in space exploration and physics and been it for a long time, so i am NOT against sciense and one thing you should understand, Science dwells into the natural world, not (!) the Super-natural. So it is kinda hard to make scientific "evidence" for a God.
thetraceur123 8 months ago
@stephven51 But there is many good arguments for God's existance and just reading testemonies about lives being changed radically by believing God can also be convincing to some degree. I recomend you to start with the famous book "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis,who once were an Atheist but turned Christian and explains why and gives good arguments.
thetraceur123 8 months ago
...there does not have to be an almighty powerful god to tell us whats right and wrong. christians are some of the most hypocritical people on earth. i challenge anyone to find a single christian who abides strictly by the ten commandments or loves thy neighbor. i'm a more genuinely nice person than most christians i know. and i don't do nice things because i think i'll get into heaven. i do them because it helps create a better world. that's my morals, and they didn't come from god
stephven51 10 months ago
i just watched a debate where a christian doctor said that god will not condemn people who have not been able to hear the word of god, due to geographical separation and whatnot. he said that god may save them judging by how they live their lives. this contradicts christians who believe that morals can only be instilled by god. how can a man lead a moral life worthy of heaven without knowledge of god? the answer is that throughout the years, humans have learned whats right and wrong...
stephven51 10 months ago
I used to be reigious....somewhat ( like most I guess) and I'm not sure what I believe now.....not god thats for sure. Most religions teach the children that they are little "shit heads" ( born of sin) and I'm not sure I like that....thats abusive!
bermudaguy1 10 months ago
@bermudaguy1 I don't think it is about making you feel like "shit head", just look at humanity itself, we as a race is so destructive to the degree where we are destroying our own planet! So humanity itself is not that "good". What Christianity teaches is more about how the human nature is so sinful and destructible, but EVEN after all humanity have done, waging war, practising hate, killing, raping, discriminating and so fourth, the list could be made long.. God still loves us all
thetraceur123 8 months ago
@thetraceur123 If what you say is true....and the majority of the world iscommitting these "crimes of nature" ....to whom are ascribing these problems? The church has much to answer for over the centuries and I think the world has had enough of what religion has to teach.God, on the other hand, is not only found through the church....not at all! Perhaps "shit head" is appropriate for children with low self esteem. I doubt you know what your god is thinking anyway. Keep your church to yourself!
bermudaguy1 8 months ago
@bermudaguy1 I don't even go to church, I don't like churches often. They get their subjective view and can get the power to manipulate and decieve many, and by that mislead many from the real purpose. So don't say "Keep your church to yourself", because I don't like most of them and don't even go to one myself. The importance is to have a relationship with God, not going to church because someone says so. I was an Atheist not long ago and still holds almost the same view on the church
thetraceur123 8 months ago
LETS MAKE THIS CLEAR THERE IS NO ONE GOOD BUT GOD ! BUT HE LOVES ANY MAN THAT DO GOOD TO HIS FELLOW BROTHER . BUT REMEMBER SCIENCE IS AGAINST GOD . GOD IS NOT AGAINST SCIENCE . BECAUSE IF A DOCTOR CAN SAVE A MANS LIFE . THEN DONT YOU THINK THAT GOD WILL APROVE ? GOD LET THE EVIL AND THE GOOD WAKE UP IN THE MORNING . SO WHAT KIND OF GOD DO WE HAVE . A GOOD GOD THAT EVEN LOVES THE ATHEISTE EVEN NO HE SLANDERS HIS NAME . WHEN EVERY ONE IS GIVEN A CHANCE TO CHANGE THEN HE WILL RETURN . AMAN !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Did you know that the "old testament" says even Evil comes from God (YHWH)? I'll bet you didn't. And also that your Christian books follow Rabbinical bans on the name of God, which is YHWH. Take a look at Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things." God said He creates good and evil. Another example where he sends an "angel" (Host of Heaven, like HaSatan) to be a lying spirit (i.e. do evil) is 1 Kings 22:20-23
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy SO TELL ME WHAT DO THIS MEAN . THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO NO . DOSE IT CHANGE THE FACTS . NO IT DO NOT . THE FACT IS WITH OUT GOD WE ARE LOST AND YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE . FOLLOW GOD , YHWH, JEHOVAH , THE ALFA AND THE OMEGA , THE BEING AND THE END, THE BREAD OF LIFE . THAT IS THE FACT THAT ME AND YOU AND THE WORLD HAS TO DILL WITH .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Please learn to spell. In addition to that, you've skipped the points. You are saying God is only Good, but He said Himself that He is also Evil - everything comes from Him...Good and Evil. There is no need, according to the Tanakh, for a "devil". There is No Adversary to God. According to the Hebrew, even the "Angel of Yehovah (YHWH)" stands as a Satan (Numbers 22:22). You're understanding of who God is, is completely flawed.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
WHAT DO A ATHEIST AND THE DEVIL HAVE IN COMMON . THEY BOTH DONT WANT YOU TO NO GOD IS REAL !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 what? Could you please use a dictionary, do you mean "to know God is real" or ???.... Either way your boogeyman needs a hero. No boogeyman - No Hero... No Satan - No God ...we have no one to blame but ourselves for our deeds the sooner we realize this the sooner we fix our broken world. Stop erecting walls.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
It is ironic that you have a screenname of "thinkalott...", considering that's exactly what you DON'T do...*think*. The concept of "the devil" isn't even in the Tanakh ("old testament"). That mentality is inserted by Greek/Roman thought. There is HaSatan ("satan"), but that's very different from "the devil" concept. "Hasatan" (In Hebrew "the accuser" or "adversary" is merely one of the Hosts of Heaven at the command of YHWH ("God"). So much more, but not enough room to write
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy So you try to inpress me with your bible knowledge . but not noing it only makes you look worser . even satan or the devil what ever you want to call him . can quote the bible back wards and forward . so what dose that mean . that means you can no the bible back wards and forward and still be LOST !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Again, you're not thinking, even though your screenname implies that you do.Stop, pause, stop being haughty and prideful, get off your high-horse, and just peacefully THINK for a minute.You base everything you believe off the Bible, and I am showing you FROM the BIBLE that your understanidng of WHO GOD IS, is Completely Flawed.Then when I prove that to you, you have some clever yet baseless saying that despite me showing you from the Bible you don't know God, somehow I'm in error
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy BEING FULL OF PRIDE IS NOT WHAT WE STAND FOR . BECAUSE GOD TEACHES US TO BE HUMBLE . THE GREATEST OF YOU WILL BE THE SERVENTS . AND THE SERVENTS WILL BE THE GREATEST . TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG COULD NEVER CHANGE WHO YOU ARE . I AM HERE TO DEFEND A GREAT A LOVING GOD . THAT LETS US ALL LIVE . AND IS WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO HAVE US BACK . THERE WAS A PRICE THAT WAS PAYED FOR US . IF YOU LOOSE A CHILD . AND SOME ONE GIVES YOU A PRICE . WOULD YOU NOT BUY YOUR SON BACK ?
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
The pride I'm talking about is the fact that you're too busy writing, writing, writing, and not stopping, pausing, reading, and thinking, and keeping in your mind that the possibility you could be wrong is a real one, and if you TRULY LOVED GOD, you would make darn sure what you believe is inline with who HE is, and NOT what you WANT Him to be. God made stipulations for who the messiah must be, so we would know the Truth from falsity, in the Tanakh. Jesus did not fulfill these!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
SO TELL ME WHO IS MAN THAT GOD HAS TO ANSWER TO HIM . IF GOD HAD TO ANSWER TO MAN . HE WOULDNT BE GOD . AND YOU ASK WHY SHOULD WE FEAR GOD . WHO WILL OBAY ANYTHING WITH OUT FEAR ? IF YOU DONT FEAR THE LAW . WILL YOU FOLLOW IT ? NO YOU WILL NOT . BUT IF YOU FEAR THE LAW . AND YOU DONT WANT TO GO TO PRISON . YOU WILL FOLLOW THE LAW . AND YES MAN HAS TO HAVE FEAR TO FOLLOW GOD . LOOK AT THE ATHEIST . HE DO NOT FEAR GOD . AND THATS WHY HE DOSE NOT OBAY THE LAW OF GOD . SO FEARING GOD IS A GOOD !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 You might want to have a talk with the US prision population of which about 98% are religious :) and.......simmer down,..... I know you want seconds on the corn dogs,........ BUT there's no reason to shout.........
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak OH . so now we have to talk like some 5 years olds . ok so let me change my frame of mine . ooops sorry i cant do that im to old for that . when your staring death in the face like any man you will cry out for God !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 Jeez dude I was just makin a funny, I made the mistake that you had a since of humor.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 "WHO WILL OBAY ANYTHING WITH OUT FEAR IF YOU DONT FEAR THE LAW . WILL YOU FOLLOW IT ??" This tells me alot about your own moral compass, so if something is not against the law and it is evil you will do it? Just for fun? This argument is pretty tired. So the only reason you follow the law is fear? This makes you nothing more than a chained dog. agere sequitur credere!! woof woof
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak SO I GUESS WERE IN THE SAME BOAT BECUASE YOU OBAY THE LAW OF THE LAND . SO I GUESS THAT MAKES YOU A TRAINED DOG TO . YOUR WORDS DONT MOVE ME . YOUR JUST A MAN THAT CAN BLEED JUST LIKE ME . WHAT CAN YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE OFFER ME ! NOTHING BECUASE THE VERY LIFE YOU HAVE IS NOT YOURS . ONLY THE PANE AND UNHAPPYNESS THAT RULES YOUR LIFE . WISHING YOU WERE FREE BUT YOU ARE A SLAVE TO YOUR PANE . AND MONEY SCIENCE AND THE LUYS YOU TELL YOUR SELF COULD NEVER CHANGE THAT .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
thinkalott33, I haven't followed all of your conversations, but it seems you are defending the Bible? So you believe it is the holy inspired inerrant word of God? Let's take a look at your "new testament"; Jesus was supposed to fulfill all the prophecies in my book, the Tanakh, which you call the "old testament", correct? Well, one requirement is the messiah of the latter days must come from King David and his son Solomon. What was Jesus' genealogy? Matt 1:1-17 or Luke 3:23-38 ??
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 Why do you assume I'm unhappy? I'm quite happy, sounds like your a bit upset though. Why are you so worried about my windows? Weird. I'm free as I live in Austrailia my guess is that you don't live here as most of my friends know how to operate the Caps Lock button quite proficiently, where do you reside? Look I hope you are happy and would not wish ill of you. You have a lot of hate rumbling around and honestly you should talk to someone about it.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 I obay because it is correct to do so, I'm intellegent enough I could get away with breaking many laws but I won't. Why? Because I have a moral compass. Their are times I would break laws. Like during WWII in Germany and during the Civil War if I still lived in Texas. However in the same breath had I been a christian raised in either time I would have most likely been brainwashed to believe that our side was just. Got mit Uns. believing in god doesn't automatically = Good
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
So which is the law of God? Jewish Law? (And in that, just the written, or also the oral?) Christian "law"? (which really doesn't exist.) Muslim sharia law? Which law is God's law? Your god, or Muslims, or Hindu's, or Buddhists...whose? And while you're thinking about that question, next answer this please: you say there is only one god, and that the New Covenant has come with Jesus, right? How is that, when Jeremiah 31:31-34 says with the N.C. EVERYONE will know who God is
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy It,s very clever how you and others try to pend one faith against another . but this is your answer . The God that tells you to the love all . the God that say no matter what color you are you are welcome . the God that tells you not to kill your fellow brother no matter what . the GOD THAT TELLS YOU TO PRAY FOR YOUR ENIMIES ! .thats the God im talking about . aman !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 You mean the same God that tells you to kill your children if they talk back to you? Matthew 15:4-7
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak I see that the devil has blessed your toung . because your luys are like i have never herd of . wich i wish you could be in my shoes and wonder what i think af what you just said . to be free and to be happy are two diffirent things . yes God blesses the evil and good with joy . becuase he lets the son rise on the evil and the good . he lets the evil and the good eat from the trees of the earth . and drink the crystle clear watar . but you are not free from the power of sin
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33 I see that God did not bless you with a spell check :) Also you appear to be under the effect of some mind altering drug or perhaps a brain injury of some sort after reading that horrible "poetry" you just spouted. Power of sin? Sure you are a christian?
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Don't know what you're talking about when you say "it's very clever how you and others try to pend one faith against another". That's exactly what you are doing, because you are saying Christianity is superier to all others; that Christianity is "the right way" or even "the only way". You need to think about your own words! You talk about God as if you know Him, and yet you don't even know the scriptures your base your beliefs on, which prove your version of God is false!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy second answer . you did not read that right . it said no more will a person have to say to another person . get to no GOD . So what he is saying is people want have to do that any more . you want have to preach to people any more about who God is . because you will aready no him . because he will be right there living and having a relation ship with the people . And he will no longer be a stranger to the people . Because now they will no him .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Actually, I did read Jeremiah 31:31-34 correctly, even though you're telling me I didn't. You quoted EXACTLY what my point was. You're trying to prove your beliefs are accurate because "everyone will know Him, and no more will anyone go around saying know Him", yet more missionaries are sent today than all throughout history!!! Isn't that what they're doing, saying "know God" to those people who they claim "don't know Him" because they have disparate beliefs about who God is!?
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy THEN YOU SHOULD NO WHAT GOD IS TRYING TO DO . GIVE EVRY ONE A CHANCE TO NO HIM . BECAUSE THERE IS MANY THAT DO NOT NO HIM . AND SOME ONE IN ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD WILL FOLLOW HIM . AND NEVER LETHIM GO . AND AS YOU NO THE BIBLE SAYS HE THAT MAKES IT TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . SO WE CANT GIVE IN AND FALL TO THE POWERS OF THE WORLD . AND YOU ALSO NO THAT JESUS SAID HE THAT SAVES HIS LIFE WILL LOOSE IT . AND HE THAT LOOSE HIS LIFE FOR ME . WILL FIND IT . AMAN !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Ok, that last post made no sense at all. The Tanakh (the scriptures) do say everyone will come to the mountain in the end times and know who Yehovah (YHWH) is, but that will be at the end. (i.e. Isaiah 1 and 2, when all weapons will be turned into farming tools, and everyone will be in peace). You keep claiming Jesus is God, which is blasphemy according to the Tanakh. Read: Deut. 18:21-22. Jesus wasn't of the propher lineage to be king (see Matt 1 and Luke 3). There is much more!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy dont you think i did all of my thinking before i went with God . do you think i just woke up and said im going to do this . and my mother a my father were not church people . i found God on my own . but if i am wrong i loose nothing . because there is no God to punish me . if you are wrong . you loose everything !
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Again, your response proves you're NOT thinking, because you've attributed Atheism to me, so you obviously haven't paid any attention to me whatsoever. Just like you haven't paid attention to the Bible. I don't care what you think you found on your own. I don't care what your parents believed, though that is the normal trend, that people believe what they're raised with. I personally DO believe in God...just not YOUR God. According to the Tanakh, there is no "hell"! U don't kno
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy so then you no there will be a day when jesus returns because that was spoking of the also . and when you see that thing standing in the holy place . i am at the door
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
thinkalot, thinkalot, thinkalot...You're NOT THINKING!! What are you talking about my friend?!? The response you made, made no sense in realtion to the previous comment. If Jesus was God, he would've "returned" in the same lifetime as those who were standing there before him (see Mark 13:27-30, for example).
Since you don't care about what the Bible says, or who God is, or care enough to actually read what I write, I'm not going to continue wasting my time on you.
Best.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy ITS AT THE END OF THE BIBLE
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Again, you're not paying attention to what's written in the Bible, or what I'm writing.
Why did you say "It's at the end of the Bible", when Jesus said in Mark 13:27-30 that all those events would take place DURING THE LIFETIMES OF THOSE PEOPLE STANDING RIGHT THERE BEFORE HIM -- *THAT* GENERATION!!
(Did me writing in caps help you see what the point is more clearly? I see you always write in caps, so I'm trying to do the same more often to make things more clear to you.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy isnt that the same thing they told jesus . wasnt that the same reason they nailed him to the cross . so you would of nailed him to the cross for sayng he had the power to forgive sins .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
1) Isn't "WHAT" the same they told Jesus? The same reason they nailed him to the cross? You're not clear when you write, so it's difficult to understand what you are saying. Do you mean because he wasn't of the lineage? They never claimed "you weren't of the lineage of David and that's why we're crucifying you". The NT is quite antisemitic actually, especially the gospel of John. This was written by Romans, and with over 5,000 manuscripts of the NT, NO TWO are the same!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
2) Again, if Jesus WERE God, or were SENT by God, then God would've made it VERY clear, by having Jesus (i.e. Himself??) fulfill all the prophecies/stipulations that HE (GOD) declared through the prophets. The point of prophecy is so that we WILL know who is of God and who is not of God. So we're SUPPOSED to compare to the prophecies. I have, and have seen that Jesus is not of God. You obviously haven't, and still haven't answered my questions about the genealogies!!!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy So let me ask you this because even steven king could never write a story like the bible . so are you saying that not of the bibles prophecys ever came true ?
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
I never said none of the Bible's prophecies came true. I never said that at all. I said that Jesus was not the fulfillment of the prophecies. In fact, most of the "new testament's" claims of prophecy fulfillments were ALREADY fulfilled in the Tanakh itself, because it was a prophecy by God for the people at that time. Case in point, Matt 1:21-23 says Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 7:14, yet Isaiah 7 is a prophecy for King Ahab, and is fulfilled by Isaiah's son Emmanuel in Isaiah 8.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy why do you think it was called the misterys of heaven . do you remember in revilations when they were looking for some one that was worthy to shedd there blood for man kind . but they couldnt find no one on earth . or in heaven that had the blood that could cover mans sin ! thats because something perfect has to shedd ther blood to cover sin . and remeber the bible said there is no one perfect but God .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Where in the Tanakh does it say that "they" (whoever "they" are) were looking for someone perfect to shed blood for man kind? That's NO WHERE in the "old testament"!!!! Show it to me!!! You are speaking out of your butt; you don't know what you're saying, you're just talking meaningless words because you assume you're right, rather than verifying you are right. Thus, you prove you don't love God; you don't care enough about God to seek with your WHOLE heart!! Shame!!
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Also, if you're implying that "mysteries" let you say anything you want about God, then I'll let you to deal with him yourself in the end. I just showed you by GOD'S MOUTH and Prophet that the prophecy was fulfilled in the "old testament", while Romans (the "4th kingdom" in Daniel's prophecy) created Christianity and in it said Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 7 as if something that happened 800 years before Jesus had anything to do with him. Yet instead of seeing what God said, you ignore
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy well you no that some people can read the same thing and see it in a diffirent way . thats why all of Gods people need to sit at the table and come the the true meaning . because we no that satan is trying to twist us all . but you no so much about the bible . do you beleave in everything it says . or do you beleave God is a bad person ?
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
*sigh* These conversations are hard enough when you are not consistent and don't pay attention to what's written; we can't reason together at all. But the thing that makes it especially difficult is that all these separate conversation are broken up into small sections with limited space to write, and chaotically spread across the page, so it's difficult to follow.
If you actually love God and Truth, you can feel free to write me via Youtube Email, and we can talk more.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy AND ALSO REMEMBER WHEN THEY TOOK JESUS . THEY TOOK HIM TO ONE OF THE KINGS . BECUASE THEY WERE TRYING TO KILL JESUS . AND ONE OF THE KINGS SAID IS THIS THE MAN EVERY ONE IS SO MAD OVER . AND THAT KING ASKED JESUS WAS HE A KING . AND JESUS SAID YES . BUT MY KINDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD . SO WHAT KINDOM WAS JESUS SPEAKING OF . HE WAS SPEEKING OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN . BUT HOLD UP . GOD IS THE KING OF HEAVEN ! SO HOW COULD JESUS BE KING AND GOD BE THE KING OF HEAVEN ?
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Ugh, your nonesensical arguments are painstakingly tiring. If you even looked at the scriptures for a second with real intent to know God, we could have meaningful conversations. Look, here, I'll say this to you: "I am God in the flesh; worship me, for my kingdom is not of this world." According to your logic, because I said it, you must not accept it and worship me as God. So then, bow down thinkalott!! OR, do you want to pay attention to prophecies God gave? So far you haven't.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy SO ARE YOU A ATHEIST ? BECAUSE I DONT UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Only the small minded would need to try to categorize someone else. That's something the small minded do in order to strategize how they will launch their attack against that person. Identify/categorize someone so you know their strengths and weaknesses, then attack where vulnerable. I am a person who loves God and Truth. If you want to talk about Truth and God, I am game. Only, be consistent, and actually pay attention to what's written. So far, you haven't been doing that.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy he did not mean that in mark . he said there will be people that will not taste death when i return . if that be the case jesus would of came back a long time ago . he was saying when he comes back there will still be people living .
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
Wow, are you God thinkalott!? Now you are telling the Bible what it means? The Bible said someething clearly in plain reading, and now you are saying "well, he didn't really mean that". That is very dangerous ground to tell God what he meant, if indeed the NT were the word of God. And you are violating God's commandments, which says not to add to or remove from that which is written (Deut. 4:2, 12:32, etc)
Mark 13:27-30 cleary says Jesus would return within their lifetimes
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy how do you do that ?
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
How do I do what? Please provide full questions so I can know what in the world you are talking about.
However, it's really late, and we've been going back and forth for hours, so I am tired and going to bed. If you want to continue a conversation about God and Truth -- if you are SINCERE and want to seek Him with your WHOLE HEART -- then you can write me in Youtube Email. Otherwise, I'm pretty much done writing on this chaotic message boards.
Best. - Jim
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy you say i make no sence but isnt this a atheist page ? why are you debating me . are you a atheist ? if not your on the wrong page
thinkalott33 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
There should be a law against people as stupid as you.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@thinkalott33
"As soon as you define God, you limit God. Any image of God is a limitation. If God is infinite, then God is beyond your imagination, because you cannot imagine the infinite; you cannot imagine the universe that has no beginning in time; a universe that has no ending of time; a universe that has no edges in space. God is ineffable; the greatest mystery of existence. For you to define God and to give simple qualities is to limit God." - Deepak Chopra. (You need to start thinking!)
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@ 0:35 the oppisite argument is made by Sam Harris regarding not all Nazis are bad.... It's the Nazi's that take it seriously that are the problem, old grandmothers that like to see their grandchilden in the cute uniforms and aren't interested in the purity of German blood......It is about the written word (regarding Christianity) and that word is genocidal and racist.
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago
Thats not what the bible says Mc grath. the bible says that you are useless sinding person, and this world is just a preparation. Kinda like a wating room.
gulbirk 11 months ago
I keep telling people..."know matter what I will always ask why?"
There will always be questions, they're infinite, much like the universe. This is why science is ultimately more valuable.
billdaddy26 1 year ago
Allister McGrath said at 2:33 said that Jesus never did violence to someone else, but only had violence to him. But the Bible disagrees with him (John 2:14-15; Matthew 21:12; Mark 11:15-16). This is just one event that comes to my mind right off the top of my head. People promote things in the Bible the way they want them to be, rather than how they really are. I agree with Dawkins; I want the Truth, regardless of what it is. I don't know what it is personally, but I do know what it is not!
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy More proof fundamentalists don't actually read the bible.... which makes them ignorant, It would be pretty sweet if God expects his true followers to have read the Bible and remember whats in it, If so I think we'd be pretty lonely "up there" :) All I'd have to say is "I've read it, but.... I've got to tell you... I'm a bit dissapointed in your work."
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
Comment removed
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak
I personally believe there *could* be a god, or some form of higher power "out there". The universe is too amazing and we haven't explored but a fraction of it; can't say definitively one way or the other. But yeah, the "holy texts" on Earth are nothing more than man-made texts developed in pieces over time and changed later to fit what posterity wanted them to say, etc. Most christians don't know the Bible, and those that do know it either lie, or are brain-washed believers
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
@JewishResearchGuy I agree with all of that as long as the "higher power" is not in the job of micro management as this takes responsibilities of actions and puts them back where they belong, on the person who made them and not on a Boogieman (satan) or a helping hand (God). I think it is a positive thing that we can cherry pick, however the denial that "we" do is the problem. Your arguement is one of I don't know, which is honest and scientific. And anyone who says they do know,is lying or nuts
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak
Yep, I agree with you.
JewishResearchGuy 10 months ago
NOW I SEE . THERE IS NO REASON TO REALY DEBATE . BECUASE GOD SAID I WILL HARDING THERE HEARTS FOR THEY WANT BELEAVE . AND I WILL TURN THEM OVER TO THERE OWN WICKEDNESS ?
thinkalott33 1 year ago
How do you know God isn't similar to a computer programmer outside the programming, and that the texts (Bible, Talmud, Koran, etc..) are similar to some sort of game genie-like interface?
Reality tunnels.
zeustriassico 1 year ago
How do you know God isn't similar to a computer programmer outside the programming, and that the texts (Bible, Talmud, Koran, etc..) are similar to some sort of game genie like interface?
Reality tunnels.
zeustriassico 1 year ago
all i have to say is that all this is predicted all threw the bible . and you say its just a book . you find me another book like it . but you cant . even the athiest was predicted in the bible . this ant nothing new . it say,s the fool say,s there is no God . right in front of your face . how plane can it get .
thinkalott33 1 year ago
@thinkalott33 The bible said someone in the future would become a non-believer? Well what a fantastic prediction. Doesn't prove anything.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV but it dose . because all the things . means more then one ! those things it speaks of do come true . and there is more to come . because its talks about the fall of babalon . wich is the united states . it say that babalon is the greatest of all nations . and every one feeds off of her . that can only be america . thats how we no that america is the baablon that the bible speeks of . and it said that she fell . and she became nothing . and all the nation looked apond her fall ?
thinkalott33 1 year ago
@thinkalott33 Actually Babylon was a place in Mesopotamia in Ancient Iraq. Also, who feeds off America? If anything, it is Iraq (among other Middle-eastern countries) that is fed off for its oil by rich Western countries. Those Eastern countries are going to fall when they run out of oil, but just because the bible made a few predictions that came true does not mean it is all true.
The great flood never happened, a man never walked on water etc...
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV wow . so you have book thats shows you truth . and you say that its un true . are you realy thinking . but i gorgot the part in the bible . when it says a will harding there heart for the want beleave . and i will turn them over to there own wickeness .
thinkalott33 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV That's a mouthful. First of all, are you sure The Great Flood was meant literally? And even if it was...is the evolution THEORY sufficient to disprove it?
And I hope you are aware of the primary sources in support of Jesus Christ as portrayed in the New Testament. And The body of man may not be able to walk on water, but God can enable it to. Yes...the same God that created the laws of nature and is not limited by them. Couldn't the programmer of Mario make Mario fly?
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics It depends on your interpretations, but I have no doubt the writers of the bible intended the readers to take it literally.
If by the primary sources of Jesus you mean his disciples then I am not sure they are reliable. If you are willing to take the word of people who died thousands of years ago that someone walked on water, then why will you not take Charles Darwin's word on evolution?
Also, a theory isn't a hypothesis. To become a theory, an idea must be backed up by evidence.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV You have no doubt? That is very prideful of you. You think it's literal because you think it was written by man as opposed to by God THROUGH man. And of course you don't believe in God...so that puts you in a loop.
But if you took the bible figuratively for just a second, you'd realize that whether or not they manage to decisively prove the 'common ancestor', it does not disprove God because God said that he created everything...he didn't say how.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics The Bible specifically says God created a man and a woman, which immediately shits on evolution. It is also said to be the word of God, and why would God want to invent a story in which he kills everyone on the planet (besides Noah's familly) all for the sake of making a point? That isn't a rhetorical question by the way.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV At the time that the bible was written, people were utterly ignorant. What sense would it have made for God to document the science of creation? Of course he made it into a story where the only thing to take away is that God is omnipotent!
As for the Noah story, the bible itself says "The Lord is a jealous and avenging God". It is NOT contradictory with his goodness. God hates sin. And the first of the deadly sins: pride. Pride makes you deny God. The punishment: eternal suffering.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics It would have made perfect sense to document the science of creation. Why would a loving God want his people to have hundreds of years of ignorance when he could easily tell them what they needed to know in the book they all follow?
The bible says God is omnibenevolent, combined with omnipotence that means he is as loving as possible as often as possible - which for God is extremely kind 100% of the time. To create hell knowing that he would send people for eternity is NOT kind.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV What?? Science was not even in its diapers back then! They were still mystified by fire and trees! The science of creation would have sounded like sorcery. But he had to write the bible then because if he had waited till science had caught up...humans would have been utterly Godless by then. So yes, he has a reason for writing it when he did and a reason for making it sound like a kids' story.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics Science is simply a way of explaining the natural world, are you telling me God was to stupid to understand the Laws he was setting? By the way the current version of creation, IS SORCERY! By the way who's this "He" that wrote the bible because I've got news for you it wasn't God.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak I don't know how you got to those conclusions, but okay, whatever works for you.
Kynatics 10 months ago
@RSVJosephV As for the second part...are you actually defining kindness to GOD? How incredibly presumptuous! He is kind and merciful to all who choose (freewill) to believe in him. But if you're going about your life doing your own thing telling God that he doesn't exist...isn't that asking for it? Salvation is by faith...ALL he asks is that you believe in him, and eternal life is yours. Who are you to say that you don't deserve eternal death for not believing in him?
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics He asks not only that you belive in him but that you worship him... and what right does he have to be worshipped? He has infinite amounts of power over me... but does that mean something like an ant should worship a human? He supposedly created me... so should my son worship me? Just for the record, an eternity in heaven worshipping God is my idea of hell.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV What RIGHT?? He doesn't just have power over you, he MADE you. The human-ant metaphor is a power metaphor. Yes, the ant should not have to worship you. But if you made a pot of clay, should it not do everything you made it to do (sit still)? God created you with freewill (the ability to choose), so you have the option of disrespecting him like you do. But does he not have the right to punish you based on the CHOICE you made?
Kynatics 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV As for your son, you did not make him. You had sex, don't give yourself too much credit. You wouldn't even BEGIN to know how to assemble a human being. So yeah...your son should respect you for everything that you do to provide for him, but he should not worship you simply for having sex and producing him as an effect.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics So God did more to create Adam and Eve than I did to create my son, that's true. However, how does that give God more of a claim to worship? As you say, a certain amount of respect should probably be given... although when I look at some of the things this all-kind God made it's hard to think of him as worthy of respect. If I am going to be tortured for eternity by fires in the pit of hell then God had this planned long before I was born, so I'm not thanking him for my meals.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV God is not a governor; he is a creator. The only reason you can even THINK about "good" and "bad" is because he allowed for you to do so. Think of the alternative: if God had created you without freewill, like an animal, just eating and being eaten. Life would just be something you instinctively preserved but could never analyze. But God granted you the ability to live above instinct. You should worship him because EVERYTHING, including your ability to deny God, was created BY God.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics It's not easy to explain, but you can't just decide to change your faith (or lack of). I couldn't just decide to become a theist and believe there is a man in the sky, I would need to be shown evidence, like there is evidence for the big bang, and overwhelming evidence for evolution.
It would be difficult for you to change your faith, but it's easier to go from theism to atheism than the other way round.
RSVJosephV 1 year ago
@RSVJosephV It's hard to explain from my side as well because it's not something I arrived at intellectually. It just struck me in a moment of enlightenment a couple of weeks ago. Before that I didn't give a damn about God.
I would really like to chat with you about these things. If you have gmail, we could chat on there.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics
Freewill cannot exist in a universe that has an omnipotent,omniscient creator. If such a being exists, than he already knows, from the moment of the creation of this universe, exactly what you are going to do throughout your lifetime. This renders the very idea of freewill ludicrous, because if "God" already knows what you are going to do every second of every day of your life, from before you were born, than you have ZERO choice in the making of those choices.
You Fail at Logic sir
IamTHEDeadFrog 1 year ago
@IamTHEDeadFrog Yes. You are absolutely right. God gave humans and even Satan freewill (as opposed to animals, that live by instinct) and he knew exactly what choices we would make. SO WHAT? He is omniscient! He can't help knowing everything! Do you think denying his existence puts you outside of his knowledge? Do you think "spontaneity" throws him off? News flash! That's still a choice and he still knows. Be wise and humble yourself.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics
That was exactly my point, it seems you not only fail at logic, but have difficulty with reading comprehension as well.
If "God" already knows the outcome of every event and choice you are going to make within your lifetime, AND he possesses such knowledge prior to your existence, than you are not deciding for yourself what to do, rather you are fulfilling a predetermined fate.
if your fate is predetermined, than "free will" cannot exist.
is that simple enough for you?
IamTHEDeadFrog 1 year ago
@IamTHEDeadFrog Freewill is from YOUR point of view! From God's point of view, yes, it is the fulfillment of a "predetermined fate". Freewill means not being a slave to instincts like animals are; it does NOT mean you are above fate. It is the difference between Man and other life. To say freewill does not exist is to say that you can not choose to kill yourself, starve yourself, refuse to mate, or contradict any other instincts that animals abide by.
You are very rude.
Kynatics 1 year ago
@Kynatics If God (christian) is omniscient than why didn't he abolish slavery and condemn it from the start? He knew the ancestors of the malachites would spawn an evil society, why not nip it in the bud? Why did he allow the construction in the tower of babel? what was he afraid of anyway? The answer of these questions is quite simple, he doesn't exist. No need for me to humble myself to a figment of someone elses imagination just in case your imaginary friend might "condemn" me.
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago
@Cougar139tweak It's bewildering why Atheists jump to attacking the character of God. Either there is a God or there is no God; if you can't prove one, try disproving the other. They are mutually exclusive conditions, and you know that one of them has to be true. Your challenge is to explain the emergence and existence of nature. And don't just think of Evolution, think of the whole picture. If it makes sense to you, fantastic! But lay off the self-important scrutiny of God's morality, ok?
Kynatics 11 months ago
@Kynatics Actually I'm not disputing "God" per se but that of the "Christian god" Attacking the character of this god and all Abrahamic gods is quite easy. There is no challange in explaining one infinate complicated thing with another infinate even more unlikely thing. I will lay off "God's morality" as soon as those hypocritical ideas lay off me, as well as the rest of society. We've been silent for too long as it is, in the late 1400's this wouldn't be a discussion, I would be put to death.
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago
@Cougar139tweak If people read "Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him", and "Love thy neighbor as yourself" and take it as a green light to commit atrocities, I don't understand how you see that as a hypocrisy in the bible and not a hypocrisy in men. Don't expect me to defend hypocrites of any period of time. I follow the example of Christ, not Christians. And you're right that God is infinitely unlikely in natural terms; almost as if he were SUPERnatural..
Kynatics 11 months ago
Problem is that if you feel you have a "personal relationship" with him like Hitler thought he did, it can lead to some "problems". You can find Thou shalt not kill but you can also find that God was a Genocidal nutjob as was Moses. God even picks Noah who goes on to get drunk and naked before his family and earlier in the Bible calls him "perfect" even though (God) he's omniscient? What's that about? This God of yours Special, yellow bus special that is!
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago
@Cougar139tweak I wish I could get through one conversation without someone misusing the word "genocide". If you think it was wrong for God to punish Amalek for attacking the Israelites while they were at their weakest, roaming the wilderness in thirst, or the Egyptians for enslaving them, or the Amorites or Midianites or Ammonites or Philistines, then whatever works for you! And oh...you're right! God totally should've destroyed humanity altogether because Noah went on to get drunk one night.
Kynatics 11 months ago
@Kynatics You missed the point of regarding Noah and Noah's being seen as "perfect". God is Omniscient, meaning he can see the future. Point being he knew Noah wasn't perfect as he would "misbehave" later on. My point is whoever wrote this bit wasn't thinking clearly himself. Why must God continuously destroy when he could simply show himself as he does to Abraham and Noah? Instead he kills them including children. Yipes,
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak God said "I have found you RIGHTEOUS in this generation." What's the difference between 'righteous' and 'perfect'? God knows you CAN'T be perfect.
Why doesn't God show himself? oh brother...
Kynatics 10 months ago
@Kynatics Notice you didn't respond to the child killing...hmmmm, by the way "showing himself relates to the times in which this was *cough snicker* happening in, not the present, however that's probably just as relevent.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Kynatics Read Leviticus over again my pious friend, it's a instruction manual on things people do and why they must die for it. Also remember "every jot and tittle?" he wasn't talking about Quarterbacks. Point being you can get any message you want out of the Bible from allowing people to eat from your fields without permission from you to killing someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day. They should have called it the Old book of endless contridictions.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak And it's 'Amalekites'. God didn't nip them in the bud because wickedness was a lifestyle they chose for themselves and their children. God doesn't prevent choice; he respects it, and he rewards or punishes it. Call it cause and effect. As for the Tower of Babel, he did not allow it to be built...that's kind of important. He scattered the people and confused their language so that they wouldn't be one united, corrupting body of wickedness he'd be tempted to completely wipe out.
Kynatics 11 months ago
@Kynatics God is omnipotent yes or no? That complicates things conciderably. This guy sure makes alot of mistakes doesn't he, good thing for him there wasn't a child walfare department back then after all we all "God's Children"? why does God change as time goes along? He knows what's going to happen, Jesus absolves it all then what's all this killing for? I think he just likes death, Jephthah proves as much. God doesn't intervene. Would you have intervined? Is your morality better than Gods:)
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago