Very few people are brave enough to speak about what is happening to us in America in as clear and honest a manner as Joni Mitchell does here. The utter failure of men in this culture is a tragedy, and we have brought it upon ourselves. Also, our seemingly willful blindness to what our government is doing in the world. This was recorded a few years ago, but it remains true.
She's very interesting. I like how in all the interviews I've seen of her she is not trying to ingratiate herself to anyone, nor is she screaming her position. She has a distinct point of view and the courage to express it.
OH I LOVE HER SO MUCH!!!! KEEP IN MIND, THIS INTERVIEW IS AT LEAST 4 YRS OR SO OLD. A LOT CAN CHANGE IN 4 YEARS. I HEARD SHE GOT MORGELLANS DISEASE. STAYS TO HERSELF THESE DAYS. SHE'S BEEN LIVING IN CANADA FOR YEARS, i HAVE A DEAR FRIEND IN CANADA WHO GOT IT TOO. IT COMES OUT OF CHEMTRAILS ABOVE OF HEADS DAILY. "GMO NEEDS TO GO OR IS IT 2 LATE"? THINK ILL GO CHECK JONI'S SITE. BEEN A WHILE.... MUCH LOVE & MANY BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT READ THIS. PEACE ON EARTH, GOODWILL TO ALL HUMANS ;^) PEACE....
I love Joni Mitchell. I think she is among the greatest of the greats, but towards the end of the interview when she wades into politics it becomes a minefield. Most of her words could just as easily be spoken by an extreme right wing Christian. And the comparison of Americans to Germans leading up to World War II is to speak with the same blindness she accuses Americans of. This is not meant to be read as a defense of U.S. foreign policy or Bush. I think he's a war criminal.
Joni is so insightful and honest,no wonder she wrote amazing songs and made us think ,she is what new young artist should strive for ,,no arrogance ,just class, inventive and cool,,something that's missing today
@Soulsacrificee The reason she says "you know" is by her Canadian Prairie upbringing which is wonderful,that is the way of respect of telling someone your situation and explaining for understanding
Wow! I would never have thought I would agree with Joni Mitchell on anything socio-political. I'm a musician and I used to live not far from her. She always had a reputation around the studios as a misandrist with the emotional make up of a three year old. Wildly talented. With her genius so narrowly focused to the exclusion of common sense and wisdom. It's good to see she may have picked up a bit of those two attributes. She must have watched a bit of Glenn Beck.
@GoldZahava You apparently misunderstand the pathology. misandrists & misogynists seek out objects of disaffection, the way a normal person seeks a love interest. You can call it a relationship. But it is of hate not love.
"...the boys are weakened and the girls are grotesquely aggressive ... we have developed women strong to an ugly degree..." Well put, Joni. An awareness of the kind of feminism that has failed women (and men). Joni, your words could just as easily have come from another woman of tremendous gifts and insight: Sarah Palin.
"...the boys are weakened and the girls are grotesquely aggressive ... we have developed women strong to an ugly degree..." Well put, Joni. An awareness of the kind of feminism that has failed women (and men). Joni, your words could just as easily have come from another woman of tremensous gifts and insight: Sarah Palin.
@RoboSlater Funny how you are soooo right. Joni hit the nail on the head about grotesquely aggression, and the weak men.......PC at it's worse has gotten us into this distorted culture we have visited upon ourselves.
Joni is an incrediably insightful human being. Her view of the US and the world is the best description I have heard. I have always felt what she has put into words. Such an intelligent woman, no wonder she can write such beautiful music.
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Where is the food shortage 4 years later after this interview. Saddam is Dead. Bin Laden is dead. We killed the fuckers like we should have. So she is very wrong and superficial. She should sing and stfu about everything else.
@2xtrbo Something like 40% of the population on food stamps is how you hide a food shortage from your people and 14.3 trillion in debt, a few days away from default, which really happen 2 years ago, when they started the stealing with the 700billion bailout to save George Bush from being hung. Think she is and was spot on. And the American pussy men that hide behind computers and degrade women, other cultures, races and religions, as their only way to show their manhood. Peace.
@Bezz80 Food stamps is people who don't work scamming the productive, not a "food shortage." The only shortage is caused by big government. There was always a shortage under communism and where did they get their wheat? That's right! From the USA which you say has a fucking shortage. Wake the fuck up bitch.
Everything she says from 4:21 to the end (the chapter titled, "Tomorrow's Challenges" is nothing less than prophecy, and so far it's dead-on accurate. (She predicted the sub-prime mortgage crash by 6 months! )
Lol, Joni... "Weak young men, and aggressive young women" huh? I did not really expect to hear that from you... sounds rather like something a conservative DAR type of lady might say... but you did say you were generalizing, and I do agree that we are really in trouble in our world. I agree that the world is not prepared for the seeds our society is sowing/has sown. "Making vice chic" (and the detrimental effect this has) is an interesting way of putting it. Thoughtful interview!
She didn't compare Hitler to Bush - ya dummy - but it's interesting that YOU drew that comparison. Heh heh. She said that the dominant political culture of America today was like that of pre-WW2 Germany. I interpret this as her saying moral weakness disguised as a self-congratulatory jingoistic superiority cannot replace compassion. She can't do ALL your thinking for you. Every time I see Yanks chanting "USA USA" I want to puke. I lived there for two years & found too many blindingly ignorant.
She is great . Right on the money about USA comparing us to Nazi Germany . The economy will collapse . For those that survive maybe they can rebuild for a better tomorrow . Thank you Joni
Well at last . We have the silver lining of the black cloud of cigarette smoking. Without cigarettes we might not have Joni Mitchell's incomparable singing and songs.
I love Joni and her music she is one of the greatest poets we'll ever see, but she's such a downer. If you listen to her music long enough she'll drive you into depression. Her interpretation of this country is tainted by all the time she spent in Europe. Europeans dislike us and our prosperity. Too bad.
If you're constantly looking for the worst in people, you'll always find it.
@elixirpicker i disagree, her honesty shouldn't be a downer,the point of her songs was to bring conciousness to us,and we have a choice if we agree with her and make a change or just be blind. I'd prefer her courage in her songs than singers nowadays making music the way they want to be perceived,not really what they believe.
I think that last part, Joni in referencing the "glorification of" vice (criminality, thuggery, violence as entertainment, etc. etc.) she's not really saying it but she is mentioning that hip hop gangsta bling element in pop culture. How its confused a generation and she's right, I as a man, run into, meet 20 something males for example, whom I thought were homosexual and they're married I see, and they have wives of course. These are just ranting observations I'm putting forth of course.
@wendileonaRespectfully, that's so simplistic of you. She clearly states that she was speaking in ''generalities'', i originally saw this 3 years ago and she wasn't speaking about ''hip hop'' then as she isn't now that YOU see this video. EVERYTHING nowadays contributes to the ills of this world not just the particulars of your spite.Having said , yes. alot of hip hop is bankrupt, but its unfair to single one medium/culture out. Stil,l i'll take you at your word that you were ranting.......
Joni has always deserved and gotten respect or her intelligence and creativity. She's absolutely right about how shallow this country is these days as well as our ignorance of our own governments atrocities abroad.
05:12 "We're at the brink of economic collapse globally." This was uploaded in January 2008, before Lehman, before Bear Stearns. We evidently should have had a few singer-songwriters in the government and on Wall Street. If we had, maybe the crisis would have been averted!
"She is star dust", yeah I get the gist. Maby personalising it it was the kicker...The newer generations of kids are AMAZING..star kids..system busters..game changers..but the chemical onslaught and media mind manipulation they had to come up through is the point..I think. Anyway, if you love someone. you love them whatever..Big hug Joni..from zillions of us...
She is star dust she is golden and she like the rest of us needs to get back to the garden. There is little poetry i what she says about America. May be she saves it for her wonderful songs. What she says about the, 'youf of today, is pretty insulting and gernalistic' but whose grandma didn't have a dig. She probably likes courting controversy look at the responses here. Joni , we love you, but you are human, Try and see the beauty in younger generations.
Name not connected....have'nt the distractors heard the poetry and honesty all along...maby if we all said something boldly in the process of disclosure, big pharma and big B/S would have less shadows to swim in...thanks Joni..I've seen the same perspective since I started smoking at the age of nine...and reluctantly got down from the mulberry tree...<3
If you can see, possibly, the big picture, Joni is so lucid in describing the current superficiality of our current culture in America, Joni is not really speaking about Debussy, but a very weak new generation, ill prepared for the real world.
Joni I love you... your personality is unique; I would love to drink a glass of wine with you near a nice fire...... The United States is nothing like Germany before WW2... US is not hording folks into gas chambers....
I've thought this also, about our men. We all watched too much TV and didn's move around as much. There is something in the bible (can't remember where) that predicts this problem (the men will become like woman) and then the trouble will start. I'm scared and don't know what to do. It's easier for Joni because she is rich, with lots of friends all over the world. I am doomed to remain here. I guess God wants me here
au claire de la lune was my grandma's favorite song. & her favorite color was blue. I find it sad that no one else in our family knew that of her, when she knew everything about and remembered and loved everyone. She LOVED EVERYONE. Every one in the WORLD. That's a lot of love.
I think it came from having so much patience... or vice versa.
so happy charlies not therre, ever salivating the feet of celebrity or corporate/militarist power. joni, a great musician and she lived hard.... neither of which charlie got done. but lest we be too hard on charlie, he has a lovely wardrobe, and the fact that he is america's sycophant number one makes him unique in a corporate world.
so happy charlies not therre, ever salivating the feet of celebrity or corporate/militarist power. joni, a great musician and she lived hard.... neither of which charlie got done. but lest we be too hard on charlie, he has a lovely wardrobe, and the fact that he is america's sycophant number one makes him unique in a corporate world.
Joni intrigues me. On one hand she's this monumental, profound icon of originality, and on the other, she's comes across as slightly goofy and childlike.
What she said is not PC, but it rings of truth. We have become a complacent and wantonly materialistic society. How will we ever manage to satisfy our appetite for "stuff", energy and the modern lifestyle on finite resources? We move from one thing to the next seemingly on a whim. Hey, that iPhone 4 will be old news by 2012. When we've exhausted our resources and are fighting over scraps, then what? Would Joni being so "politically wrong" matter then? It's hard to be "RiGHT" when you're hungry.
Joni thank you I remember comming home from my job washing dishes and putting Court and Spark on and hoping my girlfriend would come over. This was 1975 I think. All those great tunes like car on the hill Much Love and Respect .
Twenty or thirty years will, doubtless, prove her insights to have the kind of clarity that still resonates in her earlier words: "They paved paradise and put in a parking lot." You are reading your own social predjudice into her viewpoint. Nothing she said could rightly compare her to Anita Bryant (I can feel the heat of outrage from a hundred thousand JM fans) and nothing she said could possibly be construed as promoting "oppressive traditional values."
She's as interesting as ever...still got a lot to contribute to her society. Contrast this social commentator and philosopher with the young artist at the height of her singing ability. Search on: Joni Mitchell Johnny Cash Girl from the North Country. She could give you goosebumps.
@gabsylv whatever...maybe we should burn her records and praise Jesus because you read into it.....The rest of the world begs different for reasons you'll need another twenty years to figure out
@srichardson101 Intelligent, talented people are also known to say stupid and thoughtless things. For JM to wail about over-aggressive females and timid males is *beyond* ludicrous. We don't expect a folk singer to be well-read in gender theory; but don't call yourself a progressive and then trot out oppressive "traditional values" like Anita Bryant. Yup, we burned hers! ... "Gender is a performance" -Judith Butler. ...and 10, 20 or 30 yrs. from now that comment will still be foul. BYE!!!
@gabsylv Oh yes' she does have some insight and a point. You've got to have some kinda balance between new progressive ideas and traditional values. And that's not saying we shouldn't have gays openly serving in the military ( there already there' killing taliban ) or all woman tank crews...
@msawbe I'm all for balance, but really now, is a chronic nicotine addiction "feminine"? What is more grotesque than smoking, beneficial to no one but transnational tobacco companies? No, I can't have any truck with her views on gender, so expressed. Nope.
She worries about overly-aggressive women who might be the ones to fight future wars, and weak men who won't fight. Not that I disagree with her observation, but it seems odd coming from an "enlightened" woman from the golden age of Feminism, and from a woman one would expect to be pacifist and not want ANYONE to fight. Still, she was much more comprehend-able here than in the Tavis Smiley interview (PS, It was not hard to predict in early 2008 the economic collapse to come. Many did).
Lets see; this is from Jan.2008; oh yeah, mere weeks before the banking/economic meltdown in the U.S. 5:15: "we're on the brink of economic collapse globally...." bang on. and you know she's right about kids today; shallow, perverse, self-centered, ignorant... you don't learn anything sitting of front of video games 6 hours a day.
@revolution1940 You and your whole generation were pointless. Now, the rest of us are going to be cleaning up after the societal damage you brats wrought. Just go take your "I'm so old, I'm gonna damn die" pills and fuck yourself.
@fortehlulz9999 Me and my whole generation eh? Well considering I'm 22 years old, it's kind of funny you say that. It is people like you that are ruining this generation of youth and throwing morals in the gutter. My generation doesn't need racist, pompus ignorant bastards like your self.
And you say that the rest us 'us' will be cleaning up the damage of the boomers? If anything, our generation is what will crumble this earth straight into the ground.
don't these idiot's have anything better to ask the most beautiful, talented songwriter of all time something more than her smoking habits??? and it's spelled MITCHELL. not mith cell. my god
Pretty clear to me that she is worried about the direction people are going in and in particular the sexualisation of, well, everything from selling sex to selling soap powder. I did not get the homophobic thing at all from this. I think you're looking too hard for it. Being soft isn't homosexual (male) and being aggressive isn't anything to do with being a lesbian. Sexuality doesn't define anybody, it's just a characteristic like being tall. I am straight and tall. You know 2 things about me.
Pretty clear to me that she is worried about the direction people are going in and in particular the sexualisation of, well, everything from selling sex to selling soap powder. I did not get the homophobic thing at all from this. I think you're looking too hard for it. Being soft isn't homosexual (male) and being aggressive isn't anything to do with being a lesbian. Sexuality doesn't define anybody, it's just a characteristic like being tall.
Are you serious? overlook any perceived gender bias, coming from a woman who and is/was the inspiration for almost every female singer-songwriter of the past two decades.
There is no centre of any argument. There is no argument. Joni Mitchell is a pioneer/inventor of the phenomenon known as the singer/songwriter. Again, while precursors have existed in the past, the emergence the singer/songwriter as a new type of musical artist gained traction in the 1960's with performers like Ms. Mitchell.
Look, I know that the term singer/songwriter is a genre distinction that refers to a certain type and set of musicians, that it doesn't literally mean everyone who ever sang a song that she or he wrote. Ok, good.
However, I take issue with the part where she says that in the past nobody ever performed their own material for a living. That just ain't true and there is no way around it. I could name hundreds of people. Really, hundreds.
Again if we stick to your timeline and context for the comments she is making then she is still correct. If she is speaking about the way the music industry was organized then yes it was based on the notion of performers and songwriters as separate entities. For popular music she is still a pioneer.
let me try a different approach with you. look up the definition of the word invent. it means to create or design something that has not existed before. what, specifically, do you think was invented? what did the late-60s singer/songwriters do that had never been done before? Specifically as it relates to the topic in the video under discussion: workforce and jobs.
I hesitate to take the condescending bait, but ok. The invention Ms. Mitchell refers to is people within the popular music genre who write, compose and perform their own material exclusively.
well that's what you get for calling me a wounded animal ;)
i think we are having a pretty civilized discussion, especially for youtube standards. i'm really not trying to be mean-spirited or anything. i am genuinely interested in your responses.
Fine. I can agree to that. I have to say I am used to some combative exchanges on here, so I unfortunately come on with a take no-prisoners mindset. Sometimes I am ill-served by that approach.
--If she is speaking about the way the music industry was organized then yes it was based on the notion of performers and songwriters as separate entities.--
Part of it was and still is organized that way, yes. But parts of it weren't. I could name hundreds of *industry* artists. Really, hundreds.
Sure, she was a pioneer artistically. She did all kinds of things with alternate guitar tunings et cetera, but that isn't the topic at hand.
and ya gotta luv how they've twisted her comments into "YOU'RE ALL NAZIS" and "I INVENTED SINGER/SONGWRITER". Just like Gore's "I INVENTED THE INTERNET" and Palin's "I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE".
2years, 514 comments. Amazing how the responses fully VALIDATE what Joni says, People hear "we're all Nazis?" when Joni simply parallels now with pre-war German society. She tosses the word "vice", then everyone pumps THEIR convoluted view of what that buzzword means to them (which launches the chains "Joni hates gays!", then we hear about her "hypocritical" casual sex lifestyle and smoking habits.) gotta luv it. The 514 comments here CONFIRM every single word she speaks.
She talks about how until she came along one person wrote the music and another person wrote the words. Certainly that is how a lot of pop music was made (and still is to this day), but that isn't the ONLY way songs were written. Plenty of people wrote their own material decades before Joni Mitchell came onto the scene. You know, how is the way Hank Williams wrote songs any different from the way she did? She's got an inflated conception of herself.
Again there you go with personalizing this. "Until she same along", "she this and, she that". Well, she makes it clear she was "one of" and not THE only one.
It's clear you have a bias against Ms. Mitchell. I frankly think you are the one with the over inflated self-conception. She spoke an ugly truth and you took offense, now you lash out like some wounded animal.
this has nothing to do with me. i'm not "wounded." i don't have anything against joni mitchell, just these moronic statements she has made. i count myself a fan, but being someone's fan does not oblige you to agree with everything they say and do. that would be crazy. i'm trying to defend not myself but the hard work of many musicians that these claims trounce upon.
My generation (yes, I know she isn't THE ONLY ONE to make such claims) was the first to do this work. Bull.
btw, none of my comments say anything about her claiming to be "the *only* one" to achieve this imagined innovation. my comment just as easily reads "until she (and her friends from laurel canyon) came along..." whatever, the point is that she considers herself *instrumental* in some kind of flowering or transition that is entirely specious and self-congratulatory, and maybe even racist. i would object to anyone doing that, not just her.
No not whatever. In your comments you make repeated reference to "she" claiming to be the inventor. That is exactly what you said. I think she's too modest. For the popular singer/songwriter that we know today she was one of the inventors.
No. All I said was "she does say she invented it."
"I was one of the inventors of" does not disagree with "invented it." If a girl goes for a swim with a group of people, you can still say "she swam" without qualifying that "she swam (with her friends)." She "invented with" and "she invented" are not contradictory statements. She was inventing. That's the point. I disagree with that assessment. She didn't invent or help invent anything.
it's not an analogy for the situation. i'm pointing out a grammatical miscalculation that you made by extrapolating "the only one" out of the verb "invent" regarding a sentence i wrote.
trying to intellectualize your way out of a bad analogy still doesn't make that analogy correct. You have repeatedly stated that she claims that she is the inventor.
I've made many points here, and you won't address anything other than this stupid "sole inventor" thing, which was never my premise. My whole premise is that whether we have five hundred singers or one singer to thank for the creation myth of the "singer/songwriter" no invention took place at all. It was made up by self-aggrandizing white baby boomers.
Then simply the factors of her racial category and age is the basis for your argument against her. Not much of an argument and shows you are more of what you are accusing others of being.
not the basis for my argument, only descriptors of the people i am accusing of telling lies. the basis for my argument was laid out in detail in my other comments, which you apparently only read one sentence of.
all of my points are directly and aggressively related to the original comment. i did not come to discuss oranges or sarah palin or something. get real.
Yes needlessly aggressive. Again, you are the one complaining that I am only focusing on one of your so-called points. The "point" that you addressed in response to one of my comments is the one I am pointedly referring to.
Jesus. I was only trying to conceive of some group of people that supposedly did all this inventing. Fine, revise my sentence to "she and some others working at the same time, probably roughly her generation." Same idea. That is what she's getting at.
Without explicitly asking her who she means in this group of inventors we don;t know who she means. For all you or I know she is casting a long historical net that could include medieval minstrels. But we don't know that, but you assume otherwise based on this "white baby boomer" self-aggrandizement thing you cling to.
yes, we do know who she means. she sets up a timeline and a context (which definitely doesn't include medieval minstrels).
"it was a phenomenon that didn't exist back then and it took two people.. one wrote the music and the other wrote the song, and the singer, you know, so basically the job i have i was one of the inventors of."
FALSE.
the baby-boomer thing is based on the scores of 'em who have made similar assertions, not just this one interview. it's called an observation.
well, since they are discussing the time in which she was young and starting out, it's pretty obvious that back then refers to, uh, the time in which she was young and starting out. the mid-sixties. it's obvious.
they are discussing the workforce, the industry. thus, she's speaking of the tradition in which people made their living by playing music in north america in the modern era of copyright music. it's obvious.
Very few people are brave enough to speak about what is happening to us in America in as clear and honest a manner as Joni Mitchell does here. The utter failure of men in this culture is a tragedy, and we have brought it upon ourselves. Also, our seemingly willful blindness to what our government is doing in the world. This was recorded a few years ago, but it remains true.
briteness 1 day ago
She's very interesting. I like how in all the interviews I've seen of her she is not trying to ingratiate herself to anyone, nor is she screaming her position. She has a distinct point of view and the courage to express it.
amandaberesford 3 days ago
OH I LOVE HER SO MUCH!!!! KEEP IN MIND, THIS INTERVIEW IS AT LEAST 4 YRS OR SO OLD. A LOT CAN CHANGE IN 4 YEARS. I HEARD SHE GOT MORGELLANS DISEASE. STAYS TO HERSELF THESE DAYS. SHE'S BEEN LIVING IN CANADA FOR YEARS, i HAVE A DEAR FRIEND IN CANADA WHO GOT IT TOO. IT COMES OUT OF CHEMTRAILS ABOVE OF HEADS DAILY. "GMO NEEDS TO GO OR IS IT 2 LATE"? THINK ILL GO CHECK JONI'S SITE. BEEN A WHILE.... MUCH LOVE & MANY BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT READ THIS. PEACE ON EARTH, GOODWILL TO ALL HUMANS ;^) PEACE....
yourgirlchloe 4 days ago
she is always an observant..amazing!!
feritznang 6 days ago
I love Joni Mitchell. I think she is among the greatest of the greats, but towards the end of the interview when she wades into politics it becomes a minefield. Most of her words could just as easily be spoken by an extreme right wing Christian. And the comparison of Americans to Germans leading up to World War II is to speak with the same blindness she accuses Americans of. This is not meant to be read as a defense of U.S. foreign policy or Bush. I think he's a war criminal.
pethas100 2 weeks ago
What happened to America under George W Bush was simply a shame but comparing the U.S. to Nazi Germany is way, WAY OFF.
uforagain 3 weeks ago
Joni is so insightful and honest,no wonder she wrote amazing songs and made us think ,she is what new young artist should strive for ,,no arrogance ,just class, inventive and cool,,something that's missing today
vaughnsalem 3 weeks ago
she looks great. i hate charlie rose
putdownan8dude 3 weeks ago
@vandie100.totally agree.joni has got it spot on sadly
reevedavey 1 month ago
joni is an extremely insightful woman.enjoyed her comments very much.alas i agree with the rather bleak view she paints(no pun intended)
reevedavey 1 month ago
'you know', 'you know', 'you know'... anyway i love her.
Soulsacrificee 1 month ago
@Soulsacrificee shes an old hippie. at least she doesnt say "like" constantly
putdownan8dude 3 weeks ago
@Soulsacrificee She's canadian, eh? What do you expect?
dmatzo 3 weeks ago
@Soulsacrificee The reason she says "you know" is by her Canadian Prairie upbringing which is wonderful,that is the way of respect of telling someone your situation and explaining for understanding
vaughnsalem 3 weeks ago
Wow! I would never have thought I would agree with Joni Mitchell on anything socio-political. I'm a musician and I used to live not far from her. She always had a reputation around the studios as a misandrist with the emotional make up of a three year old. Wildly talented. With her genius so narrowly focused to the exclusion of common sense and wisdom. It's good to see she may have picked up a bit of those two attributes. She must have watched a bit of Glenn Beck.
Evan63052 2 months ago
@Evan63052 A misandrist? LOL. She had a 'grocery list' long of male lovers, by her own admission.
GoldZahava 2 weeks ago
@GoldZahava You apparently misunderstand the pathology. misandrists & misogynists seek out objects of disaffection, the way a normal person seeks a love interest. You can call it a relationship. But it is of hate not love.
Evan63052 1 week ago
She started off playing the ukulele <3 Ah. Joni Mitchell you are my idol.
katyspazkitty 2 months ago
Making vice chic etc. She is so completely right.
Lynz261 2 months ago
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Ugh! I guess it was a slow night for Charlie. Why this discordant dinosaur?
thegrinchl7 3 months ago
@thegrinchl7 I always look foreward to another contrary comment from the grinch. It always makes me smile.
chickenlampbrent 3 months ago
Joni is not only a musical genius but she is smart as hell. All that stuff she was saying about government is so true!
DariousM510 3 months ago
I want to meet her. I always admired her, but even more so now.
riesencub 3 months ago
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"...the boys are weakened and the girls are grotesquely aggressive ... we have developed women strong to an ugly degree..." Well put, Joni. An awareness of the kind of feminism that has failed women (and men). Joni, your words could just as easily have come from another woman of tremendous gifts and insight: Sarah Palin.
RoboSlater 3 months ago
"...the boys are weakened and the girls are grotesquely aggressive ... we have developed women strong to an ugly degree..." Well put, Joni. An awareness of the kind of feminism that has failed women (and men). Joni, your words could just as easily have come from another woman of tremensous gifts and insight: Sarah Palin.
RoboSlater 3 months ago
@RoboSlater Funny how you are soooo right. Joni hit the nail on the head about grotesquely aggression, and the weak men.......PC at it's worse has gotten us into this distorted culture we have visited upon ourselves.
vandie100 2 months ago
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sebsibemamo69 2 months ago
@RoboSlater
I'm sorry but that's really bullshit.
Rossonero072213 2 months ago
Joni is an incrediably insightful human being. Her view of the US and the world is the best description I have heard. I have always felt what she has put into words. Such an intelligent woman, no wonder she can write such beautiful music.
cevonall195754 3 months ago 3
im so glad i got to hear that. is this aired on PBS or is this web content only??
i'll stay up til midnight to watch charlie rose more often
huitzil07 3 months ago
In regards to the generations today and damage done by the boomer generation....She called it!
Kirkunik1 4 months ago
@Kirkunik1 Yes, she really did.
Lynz261 2 months ago
The startling lack of literacy, education and civility here is not what I would have expected from people interested in Joni Mitchell. So strange ...
moonharp 5 months ago 2
Her description of Weak men and grotesque strong women is so right on! she is my God for ever! I love Joni Mitchell...
stellaray 5 months ago
Right on !
NaropaMind 5 months ago
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Where is the food shortage 4 years later after this interview. Saddam is Dead. Bin Laden is dead. We killed the fuckers like we should have. So she is very wrong and superficial. She should sing and stfu about everything else.
2xtrbo 6 months ago
@2xtrbo Something like 40% of the population on food stamps is how you hide a food shortage from your people and 14.3 trillion in debt, a few days away from default, which really happen 2 years ago, when they started the stealing with the 700billion bailout to save George Bush from being hung. Think she is and was spot on. And the American pussy men that hide behind computers and degrade women, other cultures, races and religions, as their only way to show their manhood. Peace.
Bezz80 6 months ago 5
@Bezz80 Food stamps is people who don't work scamming the productive, not a "food shortage." The only shortage is caused by big government. There was always a shortage under communism and where did they get their wheat? That's right! From the USA which you say has a fucking shortage. Wake the fuck up bitch.
2xtrbo 6 months ago
@2xtrbo
Your words are laden with ignorance.
NovemberRainLove 5 months ago 2
@NovemberRainLove I didn't read his/her comment...but your words made laugh.
KrfNYC2 5 months ago
@Bezz80 you sure got that right Bezz.
poipu96756 5 months ago
@2xtrbo WOW! what are you doing in here? you sound ultra-violent. she's just a human being.
poipu96756 5 months ago
Unless....unless people start waking up. I believe there's still a chance.
olflatop 6 months ago
Wow! That what Joni says is very profound and very true, she nails it! I weap for the future.
edelenwolf69 6 months ago 3
Eloquent in every way. Insight expressed in poetic language. Not a single word is wasted.
lojayo 7 months ago 8
Everything she says from 4:21 to the end (the chapter titled, "Tomorrow's Challenges" is nothing less than prophecy, and so far it's dead-on accurate. (She predicted the sub-prime mortgage crash by 6 months! )
unfluster 7 months ago 3
ahhh bless all you beautiful sleepwalking marxo-droids. "Joni's politics don't match my programming...wah." Gnash those teeth and pull that hair.
convulsionaire 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You always sucked "joni"
You also look like a fish face...
MusicCriticHater 7 months ago
@MusicCriticHater you are a cunt. And you have no clue what music is. beauty isn't everything. You are so shallow.
xxxAnimeCuppycakexxx 7 months ago
Lol, Joni... "Weak young men, and aggressive young women" huh? I did not really expect to hear that from you... sounds rather like something a conservative DAR type of lady might say... but you did say you were generalizing, and I do agree that we are really in trouble in our world. I agree that the world is not prepared for the seeds our society is sowing/has sown. "Making vice chic" (and the detrimental effect this has) is an interesting way of putting it. Thoughtful interview!
MichaelAuthorAllAges 7 months ago 2
She didn't compare Hitler to Bush - ya dummy - but it's interesting that YOU drew that comparison. Heh heh. She said that the dominant political culture of America today was like that of pre-WW2 Germany. I interpret this as her saying moral weakness disguised as a self-congratulatory jingoistic superiority cannot replace compassion. She can't do ALL your thinking for you. Every time I see Yanks chanting "USA USA" I want to puke. I lived there for two years & found too many blindingly ignorant.
Longtack55 7 months ago 2
Beautiful talent, and wacky political interpretations. I'll take her music and leave her Bush=Hitler thing to others.
Sonorakitch 7 months ago
Beautiful talent, and wacky political interpretations. I'll take her music and leave her Bush=Hitler thing to others.
Sonorakitch 7 months ago 2
I don't like this whore, not one bit!!!
grytestriped 7 months ago
How dare you coin yourself as one of the first singer/ song writer/ composers!
grytestriped 7 months ago
@grytestriped oh do shut up you ignorant sh*t
The0Endless0Thread 7 months ago
@The0Endless0Thread She's the ignorant one!!!!
grytestriped 7 months ago
What a wonderful smoking lady.
kend16 7 months ago
She is great . Right on the money about USA comparing us to Nazi Germany . The economy will collapse . For those that survive maybe they can rebuild for a better tomorrow . Thank you Joni
airkooled05 8 months ago 2
Spot on Joni!!!!
As always.....
Cryo837 8 months ago
Well at last . We have the silver lining of the black cloud of cigarette smoking. Without cigarettes we might not have Joni Mitchell's incomparable singing and songs.
swerne01 8 months ago
@swerne01 funny , but true!
tonio54 8 months ago
I love Joni and her music she is one of the greatest poets we'll ever see, but she's such a downer. If you listen to her music long enough she'll drive you into depression. Her interpretation of this country is tainted by all the time she spent in Europe. Europeans dislike us and our prosperity. Too bad.
If you're constantly looking for the worst in people, you'll always find it.
elixirpicker 8 months ago
@elixirpicker i disagree, her honesty shouldn't be a downer,the point of her songs was to bring conciousness to us,and we have a choice if we agree with her and make a change or just be blind. I'd prefer her courage in her songs than singers nowadays making music the way they want to be perceived,not really what they believe.
grace30ishify 8 months ago
I think that last part, Joni in referencing the "glorification of" vice (criminality, thuggery, violence as entertainment, etc. etc.) she's not really saying it but she is mentioning that hip hop gangsta bling element in pop culture. How its confused a generation and she's right, I as a man, run into, meet 20 something males for example, whom I thought were homosexual and they're married I see, and they have wives of course. These are just ranting observations I'm putting forth of course.
wendileona 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@wendileona Rolling Stone magazine said in the 1960s that Joni Mitchell was clearly the "queen of rock and roll"
In the 1980s Madonna was named the "queen of rock and roll"
joni and madonna: queens of rock and roll
boyxdance 8 months ago
@wendileonaRespectfully, that's so simplistic of you. She clearly states that she was speaking in ''generalities'', i originally saw this 3 years ago and she wasn't speaking about ''hip hop'' then as she isn't now that YOU see this video. EVERYTHING nowadays contributes to the ills of this world not just the particulars of your spite.Having said , yes. alot of hip hop is bankrupt, but its unfair to single one medium/culture out. Stil,l i'll take you at your word that you were ranting.......
CDCANDIES 7 months ago
@wendileona Was Joni ranting here - watch?v=oJ83uZZRIMA
wendileona 7 months ago
This was three years ago and she is spot on about the future.
Bobcat952 8 months ago 2
Joni is wide awake .....
She summarizes the "situation" within a few minutes ... where others require years.
Very well said.
StandUp555 8 months ago 4
I dont believe in god. I believe in Joni Mitchell.
theatlantisrise 9 months ago 21
Joni has always deserved and gotten respect or her intelligence and creativity. She's absolutely right about how shallow this country is these days as well as our ignorance of our own governments atrocities abroad.
lifeisbeautiful1748 9 months ago 2
She smoked from the age of 9??
annehodgson 9 months ago
05:12 "We're at the brink of economic collapse globally." This was uploaded in January 2008, before Lehman, before Bear Stearns. We evidently should have had a few singer-songwriters in the government and on Wall Street. If we had, maybe the crisis would have been averted!
Seasass 9 months ago 3
"She is star dust", yeah I get the gist. Maby personalising it it was the kicker...The newer generations of kids are AMAZING..star kids..system busters..game changers..but the chemical onslaught and media mind manipulation they had to come up through is the point..I think. Anyway, if you love someone. you love them whatever..Big hug Joni..from zillions of us...
only234joni 9 months ago
She is star dust she is golden and she like the rest of us needs to get back to the garden. There is little poetry i what she says about America. May be she saves it for her wonderful songs. What she says about the, 'youf of today, is pretty insulting and gernalistic' but whose grandma didn't have a dig. She probably likes courting controversy look at the responses here. Joni , we love you, but you are human, Try and see the beauty in younger generations.
helenverrill 9 months ago
Name not connected....have'nt the distractors heard the poetry and honesty all along...maby if we all said something boldly in the process of disclosure, big pharma and big B/S would have less shadows to swim in...thanks Joni..I've seen the same perspective since I started smoking at the age of nine...and reluctantly got down from the mulberry tree...<3
only234joni 9 months ago
well, she sure tells it like it is. I agree absolutely, but the thing is, I like vice,
doodeloo 9 months ago
Joni who???
monjoUtube 10 months ago
she is sooo incite-full and thought provoking and....so correct.. this video remember was done 3 years ago.
ANNMARIELOVIE 10 months ago
The ego has landed
socrates1818 10 months ago
she really is a visionary... i agree with everything she says here.
lebartonne 10 months ago
Wow.....Very enlightened woman.. Why cant I meet a woman this intelligent??....Oh yea .........I'm malformed...
FRANKENRAVEN 10 months ago
open mind......just try
shelleybobelly1 10 months ago
If you can see, possibly, the big picture, Joni is so lucid in describing the current superficiality of our current culture in America, Joni is not really speaking about Debussy, but a very weak new generation, ill prepared for the real world.
mcrdaveabc 10 months ago 28
For you English speakers: Au Clair De La Lune -> At Moonlight
KmeoProd 10 months ago
Joni I love you... your personality is unique; I would love to drink a glass of wine with you near a nice fire...... The United States is nothing like Germany before WW2... US is not hording folks into gas chambers....
beelzabubba 10 months ago
@beelzabubba. not yet.
poipu96756 10 months ago
Joni I love you... your personality is unique; I would love to drink a glass of wine with you near a nice fire......
beelzabubba 10 months ago
@beelzabubba theres a dream everyone should share
QuadropheniaBrosef 10 months ago
So bleak. Maybe, so prescient.
TheBigDelicious 10 months ago
I've thought this also, about our men. We all watched too much TV and didn's move around as much. There is something in the bible (can't remember where) that predicts this problem (the men will become like woman) and then the trouble will start. I'm scared and don't know what to do. It's easier for Joni because she is rich, with lots of friends all over the world. I am doomed to remain here. I guess God wants me here
susan4466 11 months ago
au claire de la lune was my grandma's favorite song. & her favorite color was blue. I find it sad that no one else in our family knew that of her, when she knew everything about and remembered and loved everyone. She LOVED EVERYONE. Every one in the WORLD. That's a lot of love.
I think it came from having so much patience... or vice versa.
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
mythtree 11 months ago
@mcdstuff thank you very much indeed!
diogotomediogo 11 months ago
3:50 "_________ is gorgeous..." what does she say? please some one tell me
diogotomediogo 11 months ago
she's lovely
diogotomediogo 11 months ago
so happy charlies not therre, ever salivating the feet of celebrity or corporate/militarist power. joni, a great musician and she lived hard.... neither of which charlie got done. but lest we be too hard on charlie, he has a lovely wardrobe, and the fact that he is america's sycophant number one makes him unique in a corporate world.
ColdChicago 11 months ago
so happy charlies not therre, ever salivating the feet of celebrity or corporate/militarist power. joni, a great musician and she lived hard.... neither of which charlie got done. but lest we be too hard on charlie, he has a lovely wardrobe, and the fact that he is america's sycophant number one makes him unique in a corporate world.
ColdChicago 11 months ago
Joni intrigues me. On one hand she's this monumental, profound icon of originality, and on the other, she's comes across as slightly goofy and childlike.
stellartunes 11 months ago 3
Comment removed
stellartunes 11 months ago
What she said is not PC, but it rings of truth. We have become a complacent and wantonly materialistic society. How will we ever manage to satisfy our appetite for "stuff", energy and the modern lifestyle on finite resources? We move from one thing to the next seemingly on a whim. Hey, that iPhone 4 will be old news by 2012. When we've exhausted our resources and are fighting over scraps, then what? Would Joni being so "politically wrong" matter then? It's hard to be "RiGHT" when you're hungry.
ricarido1 1 year ago
Joni thank you I remember comming home from my job washing dishes and putting Court and Spark on and hoping my girlfriend would come over. This was 1975 I think. All those great tunes like car on the hill Much Love and Respect .
scottwbutler 1 year ago 2
@scottwbutler Man I love car on the hill.
PlymouthVT 1 year ago
Thanks for this really nice video CharlieRose, but how difficult can it be to spell her name right in the title?
analogic10 1 year ago
She was right on the money, we invade for weapons of mass destruction lol NOT !!
Then we say well since were over here lets get some more OIL !!
And all this started when the american gov. attacked america with the
demolition of the Twin Towers !!! I was in the U.S marines, i went to Desert Storm.
and Bosnia. and i love america and americans but our government is to blame we are on the verge of being no better than the germans in the 40's
7thvenom 1 year ago 2
Twenty or thirty years will, doubtless, prove her insights to have the kind of clarity that still resonates in her earlier words: "They paved paradise and put in a parking lot." You are reading your own social predjudice into her viewpoint. Nothing she said could rightly compare her to Anita Bryant (I can feel the heat of outrage from a hundred thousand JM fans) and nothing she said could possibly be construed as promoting "oppressive traditional values."
webbyter 1 year ago
I love Joni -
Funny how she started songwriting to buy cigs.
svenghoulieil 1 year ago
She's as interesting as ever...still got a lot to contribute to her society. Contrast this social commentator and philosopher with the young artist at the height of her singing ability. Search on: Joni Mitchell Johnny Cash Girl from the North Country. She could give you goosebumps.
mkgrunfield 1 year ago
Basic and to the point for anyone with half an ounce of common sense.Which is pretty hard to find in any Donahue under 35.
dougcash1 1 year ago
@gabsylv whatever...maybe we should burn her records and praise Jesus because you read into it.....The rest of the world begs different for reasons you'll need another twenty years to figure out
srichardson101 1 year ago
@srichardson101 Intelligent, talented people are also known to say stupid and thoughtless things. For JM to wail about over-aggressive females and timid males is *beyond* ludicrous. We don't expect a folk singer to be well-read in gender theory; but don't call yourself a progressive and then trot out oppressive "traditional values" like Anita Bryant. Yup, we burned hers! ... "Gender is a performance" -Judith Butler. ...and 10, 20 or 30 yrs. from now that comment will still be foul. BYE!!!
gabsylv 1 year ago
@gabsylv Oh yes' she does have some insight and a point. You've got to have some kinda balance between new progressive ideas and traditional values. And that's not saying we shouldn't have gays openly serving in the military ( there already there' killing taliban ) or all woman tank crews...
msawbe 1 year ago
@msawbe I'm all for balance, but really now, is a chronic nicotine addiction "feminine"? What is more grotesque than smoking, beneficial to no one but transnational tobacco companies? No, I can't have any truck with her views on gender, so expressed. Nope.
gabsylv 1 year ago
@gabsylv Oh yes' smoking is very grotesque. But she still has my respect!
msawbe 1 year ago
She worries about overly-aggressive women who might be the ones to fight future wars, and weak men who won't fight. Not that I disagree with her observation, but it seems odd coming from an "enlightened" woman from the golden age of Feminism, and from a woman one would expect to be pacifist and not want ANYONE to fight. Still, she was much more comprehend-able here than in the Tavis Smiley interview (PS, It was not hard to predict in early 2008 the economic collapse to come. Many did).
IAWAF 1 year ago
@IAWAF My conclusion: "Talented, definitely. An intellectual? Perhaps not."
gabsylv 1 year ago
Lets see; this is from Jan.2008; oh yeah, mere weeks before the banking/economic meltdown in the U.S. 5:15: "we're on the brink of economic collapse globally...." bang on. and you know she's right about kids today; shallow, perverse, self-centered, ignorant... you don't learn anything sitting of front of video games 6 hours a day.
HINCHCLIFFE69 1 year ago
This is the coolest woman ever. The ultimate hippy chick, one of the greatest, most original artists of the previous century.
MsJCBurke 1 year ago
stop being so small fortelulz!
Thelunit 1 year ago
Fucking crazy Skeletor looking bitch.
fortehlulz9999 1 year ago
@fortehlulz9999 and you're pointless.
revolution1940 1 year ago
@revolution1940 STFU you bong hitting babyboomer faggot.
fortehlulz9999 1 year ago
@fortehlulz9999 well like I said, you're pointless, and your comment obviously further states that.
revolution1940 1 year ago
@revolution1940 You and your whole generation were pointless. Now, the rest of us are going to be cleaning up after the societal damage you brats wrought. Just go take your "I'm so old, I'm gonna damn die" pills and fuck yourself.
fortehlulz9999 1 year ago
@fortehlulz9999 Me and my whole generation eh? Well considering I'm 22 years old, it's kind of funny you say that. It is people like you that are ruining this generation of youth and throwing morals in the gutter. My generation doesn't need racist, pompus ignorant bastards like your self.
And you say that the rest us 'us' will be cleaning up the damage of the boomers? If anything, our generation is what will crumble this earth straight into the ground.
revolution1940 1 year ago 3
@revolution1940 lol umadbro? trolled. :D
fortehlulz9999 1 year ago
@fortehlulz9999 umadbro? Like I said. pointless. from the beginning
revolution1940 1 year ago
@revolution1940 LMAO!
fortehlulz9999 1 year ago
Joni... how can I buy one of your paintings?
beelzabubba 1 year ago
don't these idiot's have anything better to ask the most beautiful, talented songwriter of all time something more than her smoking habits??? and it's spelled MITCHELL. not mith cell. my god
iheartrumsey 1 year ago
U spelled her name wrong. twice :D
analogic10 1 year ago
Pretty clear to me that she is worried about the direction people are going in and in particular the sexualisation of, well, everything from selling sex to selling soap powder. I did not get the homophobic thing at all from this. I think you're looking too hard for it. Being soft isn't homosexual (male) and being aggressive isn't anything to do with being a lesbian. Sexuality doesn't define anybody, it's just a characteristic like being tall. I am straight and tall. You know 2 things about me.
JamesRism 1 year ago
Pretty clear to me that she is worried about the direction people are going in and in particular the sexualisation of, well, everything from selling sex to selling soap powder. I did not get the homophobic thing at all from this. I think you're looking too hard for it. Being soft isn't homosexual (male) and being aggressive isn't anything to do with being a lesbian. Sexuality doesn't define anybody, it's just a characteristic like being tall.
JamesRism 1 year ago
Her views on gender are fucked, but this is what the majority of society thinks so I'm not surprised. Great songwriter.
TeenageWildlife 1 year ago
Are you serious? overlook any perceived gender bias, coming from a woman who and is/was the inspiration for almost every female singer-songwriter of the past two decades.
guild67 1 year ago
Joni is total genius.
skydogz1 1 year ago
There is no centre of any argument. There is no argument. Joni Mitchell is a pioneer/inventor of the phenomenon known as the singer/songwriter. Again, while precursors have existed in the past, the emergence the singer/songwriter as a new type of musical artist gained traction in the 1960's with performers like Ms. Mitchell.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
Look, I know that the term singer/songwriter is a genre distinction that refers to a certain type and set of musicians, that it doesn't literally mean everyone who ever sang a song that she or he wrote. Ok, good.
However, I take issue with the part where she says that in the past nobody ever performed their own material for a living. That just ain't true and there is no way around it. I could name hundreds of people. Really, hundreds.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Again if we stick to your timeline and context for the comments she is making then she is still correct. If she is speaking about the way the music industry was organized then yes it was based on the notion of performers and songwriters as separate entities. For popular music she is still a pioneer.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
let me try a different approach with you. look up the definition of the word invent. it means to create or design something that has not existed before. what, specifically, do you think was invented? what did the late-60s singer/songwriters do that had never been done before? Specifically as it relates to the topic in the video under discussion: workforce and jobs.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
I hesitate to take the condescending bait, but ok. The invention Ms. Mitchell refers to is people within the popular music genre who write, compose and perform their own material exclusively.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
re: condescending bait
well that's what you get for calling me a wounded animal ;)
i think we are having a pretty civilized discussion, especially for youtube standards. i'm really not trying to be mean-spirited or anything. i am genuinely interested in your responses.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Fine. I can agree to that. I have to say I am used to some combative exchanges on here, so I unfortunately come on with a take no-prisoners mindset. Sometimes I am ill-served by that approach.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
--If she is speaking about the way the music industry was organized then yes it was based on the notion of performers and songwriters as separate entities.--
Part of it was and still is organized that way, yes. But parts of it weren't. I could name hundreds of *industry* artists. Really, hundreds.
Sure, she was a pioneer artistically. She did all kinds of things with alternate guitar tunings et cetera, but that isn't the topic at hand.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
name one of the hundreds in that genre
guild67 1 year ago
@guild67
OK: Hank Williams
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
There are still unanswered gaps in this commentary that you are filling in with your own conjecture.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
oh yeah? name them.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
Great program, Charlie Rose and love the interview!
KyrieEleison46 1 year ago
and ya gotta luv how they've twisted her comments into "YOU'RE ALL NAZIS" and "I INVENTED SINGER/SONGWRITER". Just like Gore's "I INVENTED THE INTERNET" and Palin's "I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE".
JKRedondo 1 year ago
2years, 514 comments. Amazing how the responses fully VALIDATE what Joni says, People hear "we're all Nazis?" when Joni simply parallels now with pre-war German society. She tosses the word "vice", then everyone pumps THEIR convoluted view of what that buzzword means to them (which launches the chains "Joni hates gays!", then we hear about her "hypocritical" casual sex lifestyle and smoking habits.) gotta luv it. The 514 comments here CONFIRM every single word she speaks.
JKRedondo 1 year ago
She talks about how until she came along one person wrote the music and another person wrote the words. Certainly that is how a lot of pop music was made (and still is to this day), but that isn't the ONLY way songs were written. Plenty of people wrote their own material decades before Joni Mitchell came onto the scene. You know, how is the way Hank Williams wrote songs any different from the way she did? She's got an inflated conception of herself.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Again there you go with personalizing this. "Until she same along", "she this and, she that". Well, she makes it clear she was "one of" and not THE only one.
It's clear you have a bias against Ms. Mitchell. I frankly think you are the one with the over inflated self-conception. She spoke an ugly truth and you took offense, now you lash out like some wounded animal.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
haha
this has nothing to do with me. i'm not "wounded." i don't have anything against joni mitchell, just these moronic statements she has made. i count myself a fan, but being someone's fan does not oblige you to agree with everything they say and do. that would be crazy. i'm trying to defend not myself but the hard work of many musicians that these claims trounce upon.
My generation (yes, I know she isn't THE ONLY ONE to make such claims) was the first to do this work. Bull.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
btw, none of my comments say anything about her claiming to be "the *only* one" to achieve this imagined innovation. my comment just as easily reads "until she (and her friends from laurel canyon) came along..." whatever, the point is that she considers herself *instrumental* in some kind of flowering or transition that is entirely specious and self-congratulatory, and maybe even racist. i would object to anyone doing that, not just her.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
No not whatever. In your comments you make repeated reference to "she" claiming to be the inventor. That is exactly what you said. I think she's too modest. For the popular singer/songwriter that we know today she was one of the inventors.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
No. All I said was "she does say she invented it."
"I was one of the inventors of" does not disagree with "invented it." If a girl goes for a swim with a group of people, you can still say "she swam" without qualifying that "she swam (with her friends)." She "invented with" and "she invented" are not contradictory statements. She was inventing. That's the point. I disagree with that assessment. She didn't invent or help invent anything.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
That is a silly analogy. Mitchell makes the qualification herself. You are the one reading more into what she actually says.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
it's not an analogy for the situation. i'm pointing out a grammatical miscalculation that you made by extrapolating "the only one" out of the verb "invent" regarding a sentence i wrote.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
trying to intellectualize your way out of a bad analogy still doesn't make that analogy correct. You have repeatedly stated that she claims that she is the inventor.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
I've made many points here, and you won't address anything other than this stupid "sole inventor" thing, which was never my premise. My whole premise is that whether we have five hundred singers or one singer to thank for the creation myth of the "singer/songwriter" no invention took place at all. It was made up by self-aggrandizing white baby boomers.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Then simply the factors of her racial category and age is the basis for your argument against her. Not much of an argument and shows you are more of what you are accusing others of being.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
not the basis for my argument, only descriptors of the people i am accusing of telling lies. the basis for my argument was laid out in detail in my other comments, which you apparently only read one sentence of.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
I have zero desire to read any of your other "points". I am simply addressing the one related to the comment you replied to.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
all of my points are directly and aggressively related to the original comment. i did not come to discuss oranges or sarah palin or something. get real.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Yes needlessly aggressive. Again, you are the one complaining that I am only focusing on one of your so-called points. The "point" that you addressed in response to one of my comments is the one I am pointedly referring to.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Then you'd be equally wrong yet again, because she does not say "me and my friends from Laurel Canyon" either.
You are purposely reaching for, and manufacturing out of nothing, any argument to have a go at Mitchell. talk about speciousness.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
Jesus. I was only trying to conceive of some group of people that supposedly did all this inventing. Fine, revise my sentence to "she and some others working at the same time, probably roughly her generation." Same idea. That is what she's getting at.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Without explicitly asking her who she means in this group of inventors we don;t know who she means. For all you or I know she is casting a long historical net that could include medieval minstrels. But we don't know that, but you assume otherwise based on this "white baby boomer" self-aggrandizement thing you cling to.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
yes, we do know who she means. she sets up a timeline and a context (which definitely doesn't include medieval minstrels).
"it was a phenomenon that didn't exist back then and it took two people.. one wrote the music and the other wrote the song, and the singer, you know, so basically the job i have i was one of the inventors of."
FALSE.
the baby-boomer thing is based on the scores of 'em who have made similar assertions, not just this one interview. it's called an observation.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
No it's not an observation but a prejudice you have for people of a certain age and apparently race too.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Back then? When is then? Who are they? Is she speaking of all musical traditions, or the one that she emerged from?
Again you are reading far too much into this clip because of a bias you have.
amandaberesford 1 year ago
@amandaberesford
well, since they are discussing the time in which she was young and starting out, it's pretty obvious that back then refers to, uh, the time in which she was young and starting out. the mid-sixties. it's obvious.
they are discussing the workforce, the industry. thus, she's speaking of the tradition in which people made their living by playing music in north america in the modern era of copyright music. it's obvious.
iwitchhunter 1 year ago
@iwitchhunter
Then obviously back then, she was a pioneer/