Animal Intelligence and Self Awareness

[rsouthern]

Dude, just drop everything you have ever been taught and start over with understanding everything is a lie, you are a lie, life is a lie because you are a programed person. my perscription for you is drop your parents, religions, governments, friends while start being alone, smoking crystal meth, shit outside and smell it because thats you an animal while humans are aliens

[screenflicker1]

This is so interesting!!!!!!!!! This is a direct conflict statement with all the new age 'awareness' 'consciousness' gurus. You realize that?

[XOmniverse]

@screenflicker1 I assume most common sense, rational explanations of things are in conflict with new age bullshit.

[lifeishowitis]

Have you heard before about the chimp in Sweden who did future planning, collecting stones when he was calm at night and keeping them to throw at people during the day? I was going to link but it seems to not want to let me. What do you think of it?

[TheAUKid]

That was pretty good. I've been trying to define 'sense of self' or 'self awareness' and I think you did it for me. I will say, though (and someone else might have said it) that other animals have been shown to plan, make tools and form cultures etc... The National Geographic doco 'The Human Ape' shows apes can do all of that and more.

[wilderr]

read 'sources of normativity' by korsgaard.

[zzzohmy]

That makes a lot of sense. It's crazy though, how we're starting to find out how some animals are more intelligent than previously thought, like the raven and octopus.

[tehinfidel]

Planning behaviour seems to be a separate, or even preceding, step to self-awareness. There is likely a high correlation, but it seems to come about in the opposite order. Evidence in the video response I posted.

Capuchins plan for the future by dropping hard nuts on the ground, and return later when they've dried out, but they are not aware that a mirror image is themselves, whereas great apes are.

Also see Santino the chimp, who collects rocks before his zoo opens to lob at visitors. :-)

[DiscensVivere]

Interesting video, xOmniverse.

You don't consider self-recognition in a mirror a form of self-awareness?

Just as an example: search YouTube for W-pc_M2qI74, or search for DXk17vpYYgA.

Ever heard of the language experiments with Koko, the gorilla?

Again, just as an example: search YouTube for: Pmuu8UEi2ko.

Guy

[XOmniverse]

I think mirror tests do show some amount of self-awareness, yes. Which is why only a few animals pass them.

[DiscensVivere]

Well, the ones that did pass thus far, are: the Great Apes (chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans...and humans), Cetaceans (bottlenose dolphins, orcas), elephants, magpies, crows, trained pigeons. FYI: humans under the age of 18 months do not pass the mirror test.

[XOmniverse]

I'm not sure what your point is.

Are you arguing that passing a mirror test means abstract thought on the level of human beings?

Where's gorilla cars or dolphin radio? :P

[DiscensVivere]

The point that I was trying to make, is that since self-awareness is clearly a product of evolution, it's probably more widespread than we realize (or would like to think).

Home sapiens sapiens defintely holds a very unique position, but as Sigmund Freud (and other psychoanalysts) showed, we might be less conscious and more primitive in our thinking than we sometimes realize.

Also, let's not forget that most of our breakthroughs date from the last 0.05% of our existance as a species.

[Ksabrs45]

Go back to opening your videos with metal and head banging.

[danielsondanielson]

I may have some abstract conception of "self", but I have very vague idea what that "self" includes. Who knows - maybe some compound object consisting of my body and the Eifel Tower has also some traces of self awareness... On the other hand, I know nothing for sure about the self-awareness of other humans or any other organisms. What I see is only their behaviour...

[Cailwyn]

I think some animal are capable of a certain level of abstract thinking and self awareness. However, to compare it to the human capacity, I would say it is almost non-existent.

I could just be projecting, but it seems to me that my dog will seek comfort after a bad dream, or my cat will act embarrassed after doing something less than graceful.

I also believe that some animals are capable of genuine empathy, which does not seem possible without at least some basic self awareness.

[AdminDan]

I think you've thrown me down a new rabbit hole. Birds are dinosaurs.

[Mastikator]

I'm not entirely convinced humans are the only species with technology and culture.

Dolphins, for example, have (just recently) learned to cover their nose with sponges to protect them, this is taught down the generations.

[fede2]

how about "hello, folks"?

i didn't know that about birds being dinosaurs.

[enterthepigger]

Start every video below your desk, then slowly rise as you say "From the depths of time, he rises. Forged in logic, his iron mind demolishes all. His name... is... XOMNIVERSE [Make sure to death growl that part]" Then subtly engage a death metal song, perhaps with a wireless mouse, and the headbang the shit out of yourself. That would warrant 5 stars outright.

[mihaiguy]

This reminds me a lot of so-called "theory of mind." Very young kids who have rudimentary speech but don't have theory of mind yet cannot put themselves in the shoes of someone else who has a different model of the world in their head than they do. They assume everyone else knows exactly what they know. Perhaps self-awareness comes about when you can have theory of mind about yourself? (rather than just BEING yourself and responding to various stimuli)

[thorsmitersaw]

Do some apes have a concept of "I"? Do any of those sign language using apes refer to themselves in such a manner as to indicate this?

[contrarianbastard]

You left out the mice that tried to take Arthur Dent's brain. Clearly those are the most intelligent creatures on Earth, followed by dolphins, and then humans. I'm not aware if any of them had telekinesis though.

[thewolverineanalyzer]

animals must have a sence of self awarness in some form. This one of the reasons a clear defantion of life has been made.

[Cailwyn]

Are you a wolverine that analyses things, or are you a person that analyses wolverines?

[thewolverineanalyzer]

I am the wolverine and I analyze everything.

[Finiras]

heh, imagine parrots developing human-like intelligence. if parrots are so intelligent anyhow, what does that say about the idea of bigger brain=more intelligent?

[CocoMac877]

i like ur definition of awareness, basically being able to kind of step out of their own body n look at themselves as others see them

[MaikUniversum]

You should start with "o hai" :D

[SuperFinGuy]

Exactly, self-awareness, introspection, consciousness is an abstraction and it's built on language. Check the work of Julian Jaynes, great stuff on that.

[ForOrAgainstUs]

All your videos should begin: "Hear ye! Hear ye!"

/qed

[PoliticalPhilomather]

Imagination:

To create a multi faceted concept of a future or past, a self or an other, a result or consequence of a past or future self or other. this imagination also gives us the ability to cheat, deceive, premeditate murderous action, and war with each other too.

but can one imagine "not-self", absence of the self, non-existence, or death of the self? ... and what inclinations of intelligence would that describe?

[Tuppington]

that person would be a genius as far as i'm concerned. no matter how hard i try i can't imagine non-existence.

[XxxNuMbxxX0301]

Fucking dinosaurs: they never cease to shit on my car!

[MaikUniversum]

i lol'd :D

[XxxNuMbxxX0301]

lol

Mission accomplished! =]

[pressyre]

Where do you work?

[hellavadeal]

One of the tests of self awareness is a mirror.Example; Apes and Dolphins recognize themselves in the mirror.

Dogs and cats do not.

some birds do some birds don't.

Who really knows?