Dragon Age: Origins. Tribute to Loghain Mac Tir (spoilers)

[DarkestSide1000]

Dragon Age screws this one... just imagine this... the Warden and Alistair and Loghain, facing the Archdemon... and Loghain's story remains the same so Alistair will hate his guts.. just imagine if the Warden is knocked unconscious by, say the Hurlock General (Darkspawn Chronicles guy) and Alistair is taking the killing blow. Loghain stops him by talking. Alistair refuses. Loghain allows but then knocks him out. Loghain takes his kill and during his death, he remembers his past and lovely Anora.

[DarkestSide1000]

Is it possible to keep Alistair with Loghain in the party? Because my female Warden is banging him and I don't want to lose him.

[Zerolus]

@DarkestSide1000 Unfortunately, no. It's still possible to make Alistair king, but he will leave the party no matter what.

Kind of a shame, really, as they're my two favourite characters and they would have undoubtedly had some interesting unique dialogue.

[Elisabetta611]

@Shasow2 I remember Cailan. That's why I love Loghain. (I despise Cailan.....A LOT!)

[Istojataachatearme]

@Elisabetta611 Why is that? Cailan would have done everything right were it not for Loghain.

[Elisabetta611]

@Istojataachatearme Let's see: Glory seeking fool = Check. Betrayed his country and wife = Check. Caused the massacre at Ostagar by refusing to listen to "boring strategies" = Check. Unfit to rule = Check. I could go on and on.

[Istojataachatearme]

@Elisabetta611 did you even pay attention to the story? He wanted the Orlesians to aid Ferelden against the darkspawn and he never betrayed his wife, that was Loghain trying to justify his paranoid. And the least a proper king can do is stand by his men on the battlefield to make them fight harder, that's Calenhad's blood justifying it's rule and not the contrary. The strategy implemented at Ostagar was Loghain's, not Cailan's, and Loghain still refused outside help.

[Elisabetta611]

@Istojataachatearme Did YOU pay attention to it? Play Return to Ostagar! He planned to ditch his wife to marry the Orlesian empress! He ALLIED himself to the country that had enslaved his own. David Gaider confirmed that the retreat at Ostagar was not pre-meditated. So no, that's off the table. Cailan fighting on the front lines was suicidal. Nothing more, nothing less. Esp. with the horde being MUCH larger than expected. Cailan was a fool who whined about no Archdemon being sighted, GEEZ!

[Istojataachatearme]

@Elisabetta611 And by the way, Loghain was still plotting Cailan's demise even before the battle, that's why he ordered the tower of Ishal closed when his men discovered some lower chambers there. His plan was to make sure the beacon signal wasn't lit so he could justify retreating the many thousands of men that were suposed to flank the hord according to Loghain's plan. It was him that screwed things up, not the king! All Cailan did was acceed to Loghain's strategy plans and fight with his men.

[SandDragon91]

While I agree that Loghain was a hero, we can't ignore his bigotry when it came to Orlais. He could not see the greater threat to Ferelden, and because of him the Blight could have swamped the entire country. Because of his arrogance that he was right, he condemned hundreds, if not thousands of people to die. That isn't counting all the people that died in Lothering, also innocents. I certainly could not ignore that when I made the decision to lop off his head at the Landsmeet.

[TheGreatHeroKing]

@SandDragon91 Killing Loghain dosent make that better or bring anyone back i let him redeem himself by letting him become a Grey Warden and recriting and training more wardens at Montsimmard.

[NephilimRomance]

@SandDragon91 Loghain watched his mother being raped and murdered in front of him by Orlesian soldiers.

His mabari hound, Adalla, his best friend was taken from him and beaten mercilessly and starved for months by an Orlesian lord, before being dumped out of a carriage and left to die on the road.

He saw painted Orlesian nobles beat old men to death with riding crops.

That would make anyone a bigot against Orlais.

[Tails4543]

love his voice actor ^^

[alordlord]

You can tell a game has a f***ing incredible plot when this much debate occures based around just one of the characters and their role, fasinating realy.

[HansaGurke]

@Shasow2 u should die by the blight

[DaVeO52]

Dragon Age:The Stolen Throne. A must read for any Loghain fan.

[Ronkiman]

Young lad or lass, uncle Loghain wants YOU to join the army!

[EddardStark102]

All for Ferelden :D

[Istojataachatearme]

I dont think Loghain deserves to be executed. What he did was horrible, but he didn't do it out of powerhunger, he was obcessed with the Orlesians. Truly without him there would be no Ferelden. So a redeming ending by slaying the archdemon is fitting.

[danerman73]

Great video. I think Logaine is a great character and he thinks his actions are in the best interest of Ferelden . His weakness is the battles he fought with the Orlesians has rooted a strong hatred towards them. Most of my characters do give him a chance to redeem himself and it's Alistair's own choice to whine and not be a part of the party anymore. My female human noble character did kill him, but she was a power hungry bitch who was using Alistair to become queen.

[DemonMaiden]

This was a moving tribute. ;_;

Lol, on my first play through, after having executed him, I stopped playing for a while because I regretted it so much.

I never realized how wise and noble he really was- that entire conversation before his death really helped me see that. I have so much respect for him. Especially after that whole speech about daughters; made me so sad! D;

[Justinmac44]

Four people dared to judge!

[FreshDFan95]

thank you!!!

actually I wanted to hate loghain as much as I hate howe and now, I believe he's a hero after all, and worthy of respect... thanks to YOU ;)

[panamakira]

He may have been a great hero once, I don't deny him his glory and sacrifice but after in DA:O he made some shady decisions that absolutely then and there made me loose respect for him. Selling elfs and abandoning his king and army, not the smartest thing to do during a blight. I kinda felt bad right before killing him but he deserved it because although he was once an honorable man, he did so many crimes by the end, he was not worth it.

[LoghainMacTir]

I'm Loghain Mac Tir and this my favourite Loghain Mac Tir tribute video in Thedas.

[Dashvanu]

DAO became my favorite game because of him, i love hating him and always executed him myself .... too bad there are no option to kill his daughter in front of him, that would be a tragic ending for the hero of river dane

[Elisabetta611]

@Dashvanu That's just beyond horrible........ Never mind twisted, cruel and other such words.

[Dashvanu]

@Elisabetta611 why ? everything was falling apart around him in DAO, a tragic ending would make it a good story .... well, another option would be the Orlesian taking over Ferelden but i don't think the Warden will let that happen nor that the Orlesian are stupid enough to attack Ferelden while it being consumed by the blight, so ...

tragic ending = good story ... no ?

[Lougara]

If you haven't already, you should read The Stolen Throne and The Calling. I used to dislike Loghain, but after reading those books, I fell in love with his character. He's not so much a bad person as he is desperate to keep his sacrifice from being for naught.

[Arrakeen10191]

@Lougara There's no bad one in the main characters of DAO. That's what the different game endings tell: Take just a step in another ones boots...

[Lougara]

@Arrakeen10191 I'm aware =) My first playthrough was on a mage, and Alistair became king, married Anora, and Loghain died. I just like his character too much now to kill him again.

[mookiesgroove]

i just read about this type of ending a while ago and if there's someone out there knows how to make this ending please do let me know. DA is one bad ass RPG game. ~Happy new year everyone~!!

[FlyingLamb]

Loghain is the most intressting Charakter I've ever seen in a Videogame.

I like him, and I can understand his doings. I would do it exactly like he did.

[TheonlyShade96]

This tribute makes me want to have him over allister now :(

[Elisabetta611]

@TheonlyShade96 Well, spare him the next time! XD

[TheonlyShade96]

@Elisabetta611 haha

[Dinodadon]

Excellent video!! Very well done! 

[eddyspeddy]

Cailen was not as foolish as he acted(was just is way of keeping his soldiers at ease I believe, acting confident), he full well knew he couldn't win without the Orlesians, that's why he had asked for their aid, Loghain was prepared to get everyone killed over an old grudge. Still great video you've made.

[tmande2nd]

Excellent work KoP!

(Giggles_M from the social site)

[yodadax222]

0:57

how does she hav a 2handed sword and a shield?

[JohnHenryEden2012]

Some of the best voicework in videogames

[Elisabetta611]

Ah, KOP, I have to say it again: AWESOME. *Shivers* (This is Persephone from the Bioware Forums)

[Zjarcal]

Damn KoP, that was awesome!!

[shaun7100]

Loghain deserved to die he got an entire army killed.

[Dimensionaluk]

@shaun7100 That was inevitable, the darkspawn were too many.

[ResidencijaZLA]

@shaun7100 They would have been slaughtered too. There is

a document in "The return to Ostagar" that is written by Cailen that says that Cailan

himself did not believe that the battle would be won. Even with Loghains forces...

[DruidRegalia]

@ResidencijaZLA thats why he asked the orlesians for support. 12 units of calvalry and 200 grey wardens, but loghain wouldnt allow it. If Cailen simply would have lived by "...and you will remember who is king" instead of letting a grumpy has-been run the country they would have won the battle.

[Elisabetta611]

@DruidRegalia HARDLY. He'd have lost his country.

[fireman2555]

good bye Loghain, son of a knight who passed in service to the crown during the rebellion, commander of Merics armies during the rule of the Usurper, child of a chantry priestess, and steadfast bastard through and through. eh?

[AtomicPiggy123]

Superbly made, very cool indeed.

[pelmeron]

i have hated Loghain the entire game....this...it changes everything...i liked Alistair growing as a character...seeing that...loghain is...there's no words to describe how much of an ass i feel for murdering him...

[Atonil]

Too bad we dont have this music playing at the landsmeet and too bad we only have such a short time with the Greatest Origins charecter

[GothicVampireism]

IM GLAD HE DIED! THAT F***ER! HE LET KING CALLEN & DUNCAN DIE

[Elisabetta611]

@GothicVampireism

Cailan. King Cailan. Cailan was a fool. Geez, so much hatred makes me sad.

[Adamazeroni]

@GothicVampireism Cailen was a bit of a fool. If Cailen was able to rule Ferelden he would have let the Orlesians back in.

[xxGitty101xx]

After reading The Stolen Throne... how can I possibly kill him now!? He is a hero, no doubt about it and deserves a second chance after what he has sacrificed.

[Lyingaboutmyage]

Don't worry. He'll come back as a vampire and totally pwn.

[TakaShinjuPullips]

I wish I could have Loghain sacrifice himself and keep alistair in the group so he wouldnt have to get Morrigan preggers :(

[Istojataachatearme]

It's a shame we dont get to have loghain and alistar.

[Istojataachatearme]

great vid

[bjartetheraptor]

Spoilerz!

Sucks that you have to choose between him and Alistair. But seeing how Alistair reacts to Loghain joining the Wardens makes me not regret it :P

[caboosetwin]

whats with everyone saying hes misjudged i read stolen thrown and no amount of history puts him above justice he sold elves to slavery betrayed and his king and country. hes a tragic character but not a hero after what he did thats like saying Hittler was a hero because he wanted to save his country but did terrible things to do it .your not above killing innocents because of paronia and thinking what you did was right.

[Elisabetta611]

@caboosetwin

Slavery was common in Medieval times. He regrets that decision. (And he'll tell you so) He did not betray Cailan, he withdrew from an already lost battle. He wouldn't have been able to save Cailan anyway. And the comparison to Hitler is disgusting and wrong. The Wardens themselves do many dubious things, as well as eliminating an entire village! (Haven) He never betrayed Ferelden. Read between the lines, you'll find many nuances there!

[olbyr]

@Elisabetta611 I think the first 40 seconds or so covers it, Loghain might have had some valid issues/concerns, but his overwhelming hate for Orlais drove him straight into crazy land and endangered everything he was supposedly trying to protect.

[Istojataachatearme]

@Elisabetta611 Logain retreated and left his king to die because he feared Cailen would let the orlesians in. The battle wasn't already lost.

[Istojataachatearme]

@Elisabetta611 About this slavery issue, what happened in real life medieval times doesn't apply here, especialy if you consider gender equality in the game. Ferelden and the neighbouring countries are anti-slavery because of their Andrastian beliefs. In fact you can tell throught the lore that the average ferelden is somewhat disgusted by the notion. So Loghain really crossed the line again with that move.

[Elisabetta611]

@Istojataachatearme Of course it applies and I would not call it gender equality AT ALL. Never mind one thing having to do nothing with the other. And notice that the Revered Mother stays silent on the slavery but does speak up about an abducted Templar! All I could tell was that if you mention that it's elves being sold, the noble speaking up about it sounds almost bored.

[TheLordgorgor]

@Elisabetta611 Exactly and its just a testament to biowares writers and story tellers. and loghain has an amazing voice actor

[jadeyes914]

@Elisabetta611 while i wouldn't compare loghain to hitler, all that doesn't excuse his actions. loghain was blinded by his hate and distrust of orlesians so much that he almost sparked a civil war during a blight, which would've left them defenseless. he isolated himself into thinking he was the only 1 capable of protecting ferelden, by doing so, failed to effectively work with the wardens (who he also suspected were orlesian pawns; read The Calling) who had documents which united elves, dwarves

[jadeyes914]

@Elisabetta611 don't get me wrong, i think loghain is a very interesting character, but i still think he's a jerk... but a jerk that needs a hug... and therapy. also, i wouldn't compare killing the people of haven and selling elves into slavery. the haven people did attack the wardens without warning after all. what else was the warden supposed to do?

[Elisabetta611]

God, how that character tears at my heartstrings.... So many write him off as evil without reading between the lines... He is so much more. After reading "The Stolen Throne", who can doubt this? And Cauthrien's words "Without Loghain there would be no Ferelden to defend!"...are so haunting. Amazing tribute to an often misjudged character!

[DavrosVonJammell]

Epic tribute. Personally, if I was one of the Landsmeet, I'd have sided with Loghain. XD

[1gurke1]

Who has read the book the stolen throne is knwoing what Loghain is a HERO!!!

[stoffis772]

Amazing video! I spared Loghain on my first playthrough, and I think it was quite fitting that he killed the archdemon.

[Stephiroth89IT]

Simon Templeman did such a fantastic job at voicing Loghain

[Lyingaboutmyage]

@Stephiroth89IT

My friend said that Loghain almost convinced him to join his side at the end of his speech at the landsmeet.

[IlMoralizzatore009]

Loghain is a great man,i always spare him in the landsmeet =) He may seem evil but,if your approval is high enough,you realize that he doesn't care about power or the throne, he just want to protect Ferelden from the threath of Orlais. Killing him in front of his daughter is really cruel,a hero like Loghain deserve a better ending in my opinion .

[ForeverBleedingDemon]

the novels are really good, and really help make it possible to understand why loghain did wut he did

[kieran530]

Loghain is a good man. His paranoia and hatred of Orlais drove him to do some questionable things, but I think he genuinely believed he was doing what was best for Ferelden.

[aroihkin]

Came here via your bioware forum sig. Awesome video, your editing's pretty sharp. :D

[Malk007]

i spend 70 hours hating this man and this video make me not hate him so much.

*btw, i killed the bastard

[Sender612]

Nice! What's the music?

[Queena009]

He sounds like a ranting loon in the opening.

[batista777]

Oh c'mon... Saying he's "psycho" implies that he had no control over his own mind. "Opportunistic" and "paranoid," sure, but saying he's crazy is undercutting him.

Loghain was cunning from the very first book to the end of the game. He never wanted power, he was just untrusting and stuck in his past glory.

[GothikOrk]

I can't believe Loghain is getting so many positive comments, he was a psycho. Alistair was the better character, I loved his dry humor and his modesty. People who want power the most are usually the ones that least deserve it.

[peterfaj]

@GothikOrk I agree.

[Ichaerus]

*sniff* I got goosebumps of joy at watching this, and hearing the passion and fire when he speaks. Makes me hate the Orlesians even more. That and Loghain was kind enough to give me an even better rogue companion in Zevran. Thank you, Loghain.

[leana78]

That is great! Thank you KnightOfPhenix for that beautiful tribute!....

[crazybeff]

Loghain's pretty cool. He's complex and a great backstory

Not to mention recruiting him rids of that whiney cretin Alistair.

Seriously he's by far my least favorite Bioware character.

[Foodisgood]

Hey do you have a video of Loghain's Awakening cameo? I haven't decided whether I want to buy awakening yet or not but want to see Loghain's cameo. Also very nice tribute.

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

@Foodisgood if u wanna, i can tell you 'how exactly' he appears. n only for a while sadly

[prinstyrio0]

First time I played through Dragon Age and knew nothing of what would happen, I chose to keep Loghain alive. Even though I never read the books, he didn't deserve it and I also thought of taking the chance of becoming a Grey Warden was fair, to redeem himself.

Then Alistair burst out like a whining bi**h. I liked him until that moment when, as Anora says, started acting like a child, saying becoming a Warden should be an honor.

If only he knew what it meant to become one a Warden.

[lgonggr]

Loghain gets all the best lines :)

He should do Richard III I think.

I'd pay good money to see him act that role...he'd be perfect for it ! :)

[amrcnerrorist7]

5 stars!

[caboosetwin]

this is a great tribute by the way

[AurkiaStar]

its gonna be intresting to see Loghian in awakening...

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

@AurkiaStar heard he only appears for a while

[9ops]

Excellent!

-1 star for not including his quote about peace (from a conversation with Wynne), but I was going to give this 6 stars.

So, 5'd

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

Those who have read the books would understand Loghain better and be more sympathetic towards him. Also, those who read fanfiction involving him XP

Anyway, even before reading up on Loghain (in books, etc) I never really wanted to kill him. My sis was going to execute him and I went into a n00bish "WHYYY?" then she said, "Otherwise, Alistair leaves. My PC wants to keep Alistair." O_o I may be a gal, but I've always preferred anyone other than Alistair lol

[caboosetwin]

@AnnoyingAsianWitch where are these books i would love to read them

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

@caboosetwin try going to Amazon and look for Dragon Age: The Stolen Throne. ^^ written by Da Dave himself

[caboosetwin]

@AnnoyingAsianWitch if he really knew that battle would end so poorly he shouldve spoke more for a full retreat he is a very respected tryren and couldve convinced many banns if not the his best friends son to fall back instead he chose reach for power by having calin die because of paranoia against orlais. logains not as deep a character as you give him credit

[caboosetwin]

@AnnoyingAsianWitch unless the books your talking about really justifies what he did somehow

[batista777]

Loghain became my favorite character (after Morrigan) once I spared him.

Lots of people instantly deem him 'evil', but if you recruit him and read the novel, he's just a man with his own beliefs. I'm glad I didn't judge him so quickly and chop his head off, because he's awesome.

[WilliamMalenfant]

Loghain is in my opinion the best character in Dragon Age. I read the novels and they were amazing, my favorite books ever. I loved Maric too, maybe as much as Loghain. All you people who like Dragon Age should read the novels!

[Thaeru]

As much as I liked Loghain at the Landsmeet (his speech when he loses) and in the novel, I couldn't have left him live in good conscious.

Even my "Paladin" character would want him dead for what he's done.

[RebelHeart95]

After reading the prequal books I have to admit the character's evil deeds conflict with his wonderful uplifting and saving-the-day character in the book. I just wish you could save Loghain and still keep Alistair :'(

[RealArcalian]

Great stuff. could you make a tribute with more gameplay/dialogue from his time as a party member?

[mikecs]

I took Loghain during the Landsmeet...he died for his crimes! In real life I'm against the death penalty, but in the game, it was either get rid of the traitor Loghain or have the honorable Alistor leave! I choose honor!

[FlyThruDAir]

Loghain: "You don't KNOW me!"

[Kortikosteroid]

my favourite DA:O character... :´(

[LoghainMacTir]

@Kortikosteroid Hush. I still live.

[dzikv01]

Logian... Best character in DA:O... Also the one that actually should have been king... Not that naive brat!

[MCfleghm]

@dzikv01 he had good intentions, but it's hard to see those with all the bad things he's done.

[LoghainMacTir]

@dzikv01 Thank you. It's good to know that there are still intelligent people out there who will support me.

[Smeagolisfree99]

Great vid, great LotR song to tie in as well!

[Taiyama2]

"There was a dragon in the sky. I saw it myself, flying in the mountains. If dragons can rise from defeat, my friends, then why not Ferelden? It feels good to fight, to stand up to those Orlesian bastards and tell them NO MORE! Your prince is not here! But when he returns to us, we shall hand him his stolen throne! Here at the River Dane is where the Dragon Age begins, my friends! TODAY THEY WILL HEAR US ROAR!" -Loghain Mac Tir, "The Stolen Throne".

That's about all I think I need to say.

[Atonil]

@Taiyama2 you conviced me with that qoute to read the novel thank you

[Taiyama2]

@Atonil My pleasure. It's really quite a fun read.

[aanorith]

I'm impressed! I really liked the video dude.

[SnapefanX]

Awesome! There's not enough love for Loghain-

I agree, the "Redeemer" ending would be the ideal conclusion for Loghain, but I don't want him to die, so... dark ritual it is!

[DeadCal]

Great video. This is my favourite ending too - a fitting end to a great character.

[LadyXaila]

Very nice. I've never understood the frothy rage people have over this character. I thought his redeemer ending was really touching and fitting - but I'm a huge sucker for redemption of the Bad Guy.

[yully89]

yeah but the things he did before origins can also be very conflicting of the nature his character

[drhelio212]

How so?

[yully89]

read the prequel novels and youll see what i mean

[drhelio212]

I did, and I don't see how his character is any less consistent in its portrayal in the game than what it was in the book. His character evolves over the three stories he is presented in, and any good writing has an evolution of characters. People don't naturally stagnant in personality in real life, but instead they evolve from the experiences they have in their lives. Loghain cares about Ferelden. He hates Orlesians. His paranoia goes to an extreme in Origins, and he cares mostly about one...

[drhelio212]

thing - stopping the Orlesians from putting all of Fereldan back beneath the boot of Orlais once more. Yes, he puts the Blight on the back burner, but his character is consistent as much as his expression of his hatred for Orlais has evolved. I really don't see the point you're trying to make. That is the reason why I asked. For clarification.

[yully89]

yeah i see your point, i just didnt see the motivation for him to abandon cailan, and then go power mad and blame it on the wardens but your right his personality does evolve

[riu18]

is beautiful