Seriously Ian. I appreciate your non-combative responses. I really do. But that's an old argument. Everything else we do to horses is un-natural so we are just doing our part to help them. How, by adding to it. And even the shoes are not as much of an issue for the horse as the trim under them. THAT is what really wrecks their hooves. Consider checking out Garret Ford's webpage about a horse that wasn't allowed to race on the Easy Care Inc website. opening. Just google that.
I think I know a little bit more about what I'm talking about than you do. But you can continue to fool yourself about what your doing to horse hooves. No where in NATURE does it say nailing our crap onto a horse's hoof is a good idea!
@patslark Thanks for your response. In the ideal world, horses would be left to nature, just as you say. No shoes, No saddle, No rider, No enjoyment for the Rider, at the Horses expense. I'm in a industry, racing, jumpers, and pleasure riding where horses travel over terrain under loads that are anything but natural to them. My goal is to help horses deal with the UN-natural. If the world changes, I will be out of a job. All that being said, you are correct, barefoot is best for the horse. Ian
Hmm, seem to me, that the industry is coming up with increasingly thinner and more flexible shoes. Barely shoes anymore. In that case, what is the purpose of the shoes? Keep farriers in the business? Complying with racing requirements, while mimic barefoot movements?
I think that these shoes are great looking and seem to work in cooperation with the hoof. However, the downside is there is still a racing industry! The group I belong to does not agree with racing or any other sports involving horses. It is all based on industry and money and not about the horse at all. However, I do suppose that if you must be involved in industry, these shoes would be the way to go.
These shoes are probaly the BEST I have seen, they are thin(so less trimming) and allow the heels and wall to flex. Bravo tell everyone to start using them and thanks for video!!!!!!!! And MOST IMPORTANT THE FROG can reach the ground. Which supports/cushoins the back, joints and tendons from repeated beatings. Yasha Shoes awsome!!
If you let the frog grow to the ground with the shoe on it will be a false frog kinda like a false sole. The frog should be almost touching the ground (1/4" off) just as they are shoed not a month later. Because most farriers do not(know how) trim the hoof enough before they shoe them. Mostly what you see is a severely layered frog/sole and a contracted hoof which leads to a lot of bateria/fungus/lameness.
hey i was just wondering if you had some info about ordering these shoes and do they make other types of race shoes, if you could send me an email or something about this that would be Great, sunnyman6@hotmailcom,
I do belive that shoes can be adaped to perform just like a sole calouse if you let the frog grow to the ground, sort of.Well I know how to do it,I just dont how to explaine it. lol
Check out the video response I posted. That's mine! =)It's riders's view over gravel with a hoof shot at the end. I really should have gotten off and showed the bottom of the hoof, but he's so darn tall I have to find a rock or something to mount back up on. =) More barefoot videos to come.
I like what you're trying to do here - and why. Can't wait to see the glued on shoe. Saw some video the other day of a guy taking off enough hoof wall to make me want to puke to rebuild the hoof for the racehorse. It was sad.
Nails through the hoof wall just make me cringe. Barefoot girl here. But if you can help some horses out there with these shoes for the shoe happy - PLEASE DO! Flexibility is the key - as well as a good solid frog contact. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! Actually, if you mean a 1/2" more hoof wall in thickness, most do, as most any horse could, as long as they're not carrying an extra 1/2 in hoofwall length. It's been my experience that with traditional hoof trimming, (for shoes or not), farriers tend to remove parts of the hoof that should be left, and they leave parts that should be trimmed off. The hooves become their own worst enemy. The trims perpetuate the need for shoes. Shoes never repair the original problem, just covers it.
Interesting concept. But I wonder how the endurance horses who travel for hours over 100s of miles of rock, dirt and shale keep from wearing their hoof walls completely off. Partly, their hooves are better prepared for the environment they will be working on. Diet and exercise play a part as well. Maybe rather than just looking at shoes, we could be looking at the racehorses lifestyle to see how we can help their hold up for the few minutes it takes to get around the track each time.
Could not agree any more. I'm sure they don't pack and grease endurance horse's hooves everyday and they probably carry about a half inch more hoof. if you are familiar with their hoof care, please pass it on. thanks again
My trimming style is one based on the hooves of wild horses, with a rounded toe, sole calluse directly behind the white line, frog level with the wall, I scoop out the sole & bars to form a cup, and set the hoof at a 45 degree angle. I show my horse in dressage, speed jumping, x-contry, hunter everything, english, barel racing, pole beding, western, endurance, hunter paceses, foxhunting, and trail, and have never had a problem of the 7yr of partnership.
When you dissect a cadaver hoof you can always tell the shod hoof from the bare. Grooves from the toe clips and nails will often show up in the coffin bone. What we put on the hoof will eventually be reflected inside the hoof, on the bone. I don't care how unique a shoe is, pounding nails into the hoofcapsule and the need to force a hoof capsule to flare in order to have something to nail a shoe to isn't condusive to a healthy hoof. Period.
Thanks for your insight, it is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately in the racing industry they have to wear shoes because of how abrasive the tracks are. Without a shoe it would be a matter of days before the hoof would be worn down to the blood line. We will be posting a shoe that is totally flexible and glued on. Looking forward to your comments.
I disagree with the hoof being worn down to the bloodline. I have an OTTB who "had to have shoes". I took him barefoot for many reasons I won't go into here (too long). He's barefoot, sound and healthy for 4yrs now. Note that he's pastured in dirt and rocks and gets ridden several times a week for 5-20+ miles (training for endurance) over all kinds of terrain (folsom lake trails). Even though I trim him every 2 weeks (natural trim not pasture trim) there's still stuff for me to take off!
@patslark ? you have a misconception about horseshoeing. "flair"- distortion of the hoof wall, is not desired any old shoeing book will tell you that right away. With a barefoot no less than 50% of the hoof wall should be removed,however in some cases the front or dorsal surface needs reduction for proper angle and point of take off. This is when a shoe can be necessary to support temporarily thinned hoof wall until it "grows" straighter. Nailing into a straight hoof wall is not a problem.
wow good video.I had my horse bare foot but every time he would go lame so we put shoes back on him and no hes a lot better but now I have to work on geting his what up bc he is relly thin
Actualy, if a person wheres the wrong shoes it will slowly mess up your spine. So yes, shoes are bad for people as well. But we have a choice in that, horses do not. We do what ever we want to them, rather it hurts or not. if a wild horse had "ideal" hooves, for exsample QH hooves, it would die in a weak. Domestic horses adapted to bad hooves to survive. Bare foot is for every horse whos owner cares about them.
Your right. Most every example used to discredit horseshoes has been a bad shoeing. Bad shoeing can do a lot of damage. Barefoot is not for every horse. Good hooves have be bread out of a lot of domesticated horses. Not to mention most don't have the terrain avail to develop a good hoof. Barefoot is for the right horse with the right owner. Some horses just have great feet, others need a regiment (& willing owner) to keep the hoofs in shape & others can't do without shoes for varying reasons.
Metal shoes prevent the hoof from absorbing any pressure whilst moving. The hoof is designed to expand and relive pressure on the tendons etc. Although a horse can go it's entire life in shoes without having any issues, but a lot of the time shoes only mast issues horses are having by preventing the horse from feeling its feet at all and jarring it's joints.
When a horse is sounder in shoes than barefeet, I believe shoes are hiding the problem. Damage continues. Further, hooves move in many directions, not just medial to lateral. For lateral cartilage development for instance, you need yaw.
I am glad you appreciate the need for sole and frog contact with the ground. Dr. Bowker DVM, PhD (Michigan State) calls all shoes "peripheral loading devices". We don't want to load the walls. That's why barefoot advocates bevel or add a mustang roll.
I totally agree with you. All my horses are barefoot and can trot and canter on gravel trails. People use shoes because they think there supposed to and they think it's the only way to keep their horse sound. It's just a matter of educating people in natural trimming. I was talking to a felow ferrier and he thinks that if your horse is bare foot you cant ride it much and there's no such thing in performance trimming, which there is.
Now that's funny what the farrier said! That's it, next time I take my horse out (he's barefoot of course) I'm video taping us cantering on gravel packed trails and putting it on youtube. Shoulda done this a long time ago. :)
Yeah, hes the best farier in Roanoke, VA as well, it really shocked me that he knew almost nothing about barefoot trimming. I started out working at a barefoot rehab center for cronic founder cases when I was 12,im 20 now, so I know a bit about barefoot trimming. But he still didint belive me, lol.
Im questioning what you are trying to say about the heel.... The only reason that medial heel even moved that much is because of the shear put on it by having the heel caulk on the lateral heel and not on the medial heel. The heel caulk did nothing to prevent the movement of the heel. Please disprove me...simply put another heel caulk on the other side and note the movement between the two heels. Its possible Im the idiot here but I dont think that caulk preventeted movement
I used to be a farrier that went over to barefoot because I saw so much damage from shoeing and I like the way the hoof gets to move in boots and pads. I'm way impressed that you are looking for the flex in the hoof and that you want the frog to hit the ground. I wish all shoes were made out of that steel. I'm Swedish by the way.(LOL) Åsa
how on earth do you shape a shoe that springs back? I assume if it goes in the forge it loses its springy-ness once cooled? Also what are these shoes called?
Ian, I apologize for my previous comments. I did not realize I was commenting on such a well respected farrier's thread.
patslark 5 months ago
Seriously Ian. I appreciate your non-combative responses. I really do. But that's an old argument. Everything else we do to horses is un-natural so we are just doing our part to help them. How, by adding to it. And even the shoes are not as much of an issue for the horse as the trim under them. THAT is what really wrecks their hooves. Consider checking out Garret Ford's webpage about a horse that wasn't allowed to race on the Easy Care Inc website. opening. Just google that.
patslark 5 months ago
I think I know a little bit more about what I'm talking about than you do. But you can continue to fool yourself about what your doing to horse hooves. No where in NATURE does it say nailing our crap onto a horse's hoof is a good idea!
patslark 5 months ago
@patslark Thanks for your response. In the ideal world, horses would be left to nature, just as you say. No shoes, No saddle, No rider, No enjoyment for the Rider, at the Horses expense. I'm in a industry, racing, jumpers, and pleasure riding where horses travel over terrain under loads that are anything but natural to them. My goal is to help horses deal with the UN-natural. If the world changes, I will be out of a job. All that being said, you are correct, barefoot is best for the horse. Ian
ihmckinlay 5 months ago
very great concept. my only question is how do you then shape the shoe to fit the individual horses hooves if the shoe just springs back into place?
allegroequine14 6 months ago
Hmm, seem to me, that the industry is coming up with increasingly thinner and more flexible shoes. Barely shoes anymore. In that case, what is the purpose of the shoes? Keep farriers in the business? Complying with racing requirements, while mimic barefoot movements?
ezire 9 months ago
I think that these shoes are great looking and seem to work in cooperation with the hoof. However, the downside is there is still a racing industry! The group I belong to does not agree with racing or any other sports involving horses. It is all based on industry and money and not about the horse at all. However, I do suppose that if you must be involved in industry, these shoes would be the way to go.
Highroadgypsies 1 year ago
Comment removed
itwasallgoodinthe70s 1 year ago
If only horses could talk...they would say "Forget the shoes altogether and let me go barefoot!" :)
hippitor 2 years ago 4
hey im just wondering if you could tell me where i can purchase some of these shoes, in canada. thanks so much
hollywoodstitch 2 years ago
These shoes are probaly the BEST I have seen, they are thin(so less trimming) and allow the heels and wall to flex. Bravo tell everyone to start using them and thanks for video!!!!!!!! And MOST IMPORTANT THE FROG can reach the ground. Which supports/cushoins the back, joints and tendons from repeated beatings. Yasha Shoes awsome!!
NastyCracker3 2 years ago
If you let the frog grow to the ground with the shoe on it will be a false frog kinda like a false sole. The frog should be almost touching the ground (1/4" off) just as they are shoed not a month later. Because most farriers do not(know how) trim the hoof enough before they shoe them. Mostly what you see is a severely layered frog/sole and a contracted hoof which leads to a lot of bateria/fungus/lameness.
NastyCracker3 2 years ago
hey i was just wondering if you had some info about ordering these shoes and do they make other types of race shoes, if you could send me an email or something about this that would be Great, sunnyman6@hotmailcom,
thanks so much
hollywoodstitch 2 years ago
Do the shoes need to be heated to be shaped or can you cold shoe with them? Thanks for the info!
CowgirlAshley22 3 years ago
I do belive that shoes can be adaped to perform just like a sole calouse if you let the frog grow to the ground, sort of.Well I know how to do it,I just dont how to explaine it. lol
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Comment removed
NastyCracker3 2 years ago
Comment removed
NastyCracker3 2 years ago
emr2e, let me know if you post a video of your horse. Id like to see it. :D
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Check out the video response I posted. That's mine! =)It's riders's view over gravel with a hoof shot at the end. I really should have gotten off and showed the bottom of the hoof, but he's so darn tall I have to find a rock or something to mount back up on. =) More barefoot videos to come.
emr2e 3 years ago
I like what you're trying to do here - and why. Can't wait to see the glued on shoe. Saw some video the other day of a guy taking off enough hoof wall to make me want to puke to rebuild the hoof for the racehorse. It was sad.
Nails through the hoof wall just make me cringe. Barefoot girl here. But if you can help some horses out there with these shoes for the shoe happy - PLEASE DO! Flexibility is the key - as well as a good solid frog contact. Keep up the good work!
happycampersMT 3 years ago
Thanks! Actually, if you mean a 1/2" more hoof wall in thickness, most do, as most any horse could, as long as they're not carrying an extra 1/2 in hoofwall length. It's been my experience that with traditional hoof trimming, (for shoes or not), farriers tend to remove parts of the hoof that should be left, and they leave parts that should be trimmed off. The hooves become their own worst enemy. The trims perpetuate the need for shoes. Shoes never repair the original problem, just covers it.
patslark 3 years ago
Interesting concept. But I wonder how the endurance horses who travel for hours over 100s of miles of rock, dirt and shale keep from wearing their hoof walls completely off. Partly, their hooves are better prepared for the environment they will be working on. Diet and exercise play a part as well. Maybe rather than just looking at shoes, we could be looking at the racehorses lifestyle to see how we can help their hold up for the few minutes it takes to get around the track each time.
patslark 3 years ago
Could not agree any more. I'm sure they don't pack and grease endurance horse's hooves everyday and they probably carry about a half inch more hoof. if you are familiar with their hoof care, please pass it on. thanks again
ihmckin 3 years ago
My trimming style is one based on the hooves of wild horses, with a rounded toe, sole calluse directly behind the white line, frog level with the wall, I scoop out the sole & bars to form a cup, and set the hoof at a 45 degree angle. I show my horse in dressage, speed jumping, x-contry, hunter everything, english, barel racing, pole beding, western, endurance, hunter paceses, foxhunting, and trail, and have never had a problem of the 7yr of partnership.
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
When you dissect a cadaver hoof you can always tell the shod hoof from the bare. Grooves from the toe clips and nails will often show up in the coffin bone. What we put on the hoof will eventually be reflected inside the hoof, on the bone. I don't care how unique a shoe is, pounding nails into the hoofcapsule and the need to force a hoof capsule to flare in order to have something to nail a shoe to isn't condusive to a healthy hoof. Period.
patslark 3 years ago 9
Thanks for your insight, it is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately in the racing industry they have to wear shoes because of how abrasive the tracks are. Without a shoe it would be a matter of days before the hoof would be worn down to the blood line. We will be posting a shoe that is totally flexible and glued on. Looking forward to your comments.
ihmckin 3 years ago
I disagree with the hoof being worn down to the bloodline. I have an OTTB who "had to have shoes". I took him barefoot for many reasons I won't go into here (too long). He's barefoot, sound and healthy for 4yrs now. Note that he's pastured in dirt and rocks and gets ridden several times a week for 5-20+ miles (training for endurance) over all kinds of terrain (folsom lake trails). Even though I trim him every 2 weeks (natural trim not pasture trim) there's still stuff for me to take off!
emr2e 3 years ago
@ihmckin Perhaps horse racing is a cruel industry and horses should not be performing in that way then.
genevievehannon 1 year ago
@patslark ? you have a misconception about horseshoeing. "flair"- distortion of the hoof wall, is not desired any old shoeing book will tell you that right away. With a barefoot no less than 50% of the hoof wall should be removed,however in some cases the front or dorsal surface needs reduction for proper angle and point of take off. This is when a shoe can be necessary to support temporarily thinned hoof wall until it "grows" straighter. Nailing into a straight hoof wall is not a problem.
shaneshaneshoer 5 months ago
wow good video.I had my horse bare foot but every time he would go lame so we put shoes back on him and no hes a lot better but now I have to work on geting his what up bc he is relly thin
ino89777 3 years ago
Bare-foot is for every horse, but not every owner.
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Just like barefoot is for every human! I like the way you think. Hope you dont where shoes!
HoofSupport 3 years ago
Actualy, if a person wheres the wrong shoes it will slowly mess up your spine. So yes, shoes are bad for people as well. But we have a choice in that, horses do not. We do what ever we want to them, rather it hurts or not. if a wild horse had "ideal" hooves, for exsample QH hooves, it would die in a weak. Domestic horses adapted to bad hooves to survive. Bare foot is for every horse whos owner cares about them.
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Your right. Most every example used to discredit horseshoes has been a bad shoeing. Bad shoeing can do a lot of damage. Barefoot is not for every horse. Good hooves have be bread out of a lot of domesticated horses. Not to mention most don't have the terrain avail to develop a good hoof. Barefoot is for the right horse with the right owner. Some horses just have great feet, others need a regiment (& willing owner) to keep the hoofs in shape & others can't do without shoes for varying reasons.
HoofSupport 3 years ago 3
YEP! :D
XArabHunterX 2 years ago
I'm just curious,, what happens if a horse isnt barefoot,,,horse shoed every 6 weeks??????
xlxOrtizxlx 2 years ago
Metal shoes prevent the hoof from absorbing any pressure whilst moving. The hoof is designed to expand and relive pressure on the tendons etc. Although a horse can go it's entire life in shoes without having any issues, but a lot of the time shoes only mast issues horses are having by preventing the horse from feeling its feet at all and jarring it's joints.
Ntrlhrsgrl 2 years ago 2
what about horses that wernt born with stright legs, the ones who NEED corrective shoeing. are you all suggesting that NO horse needs shoes?
because i know a few horses who would be quite lame without them...
horsebackrider420 3 years ago
When a horse is sounder in shoes than barefeet, I believe shoes are hiding the problem. Damage continues. Further, hooves move in many directions, not just medial to lateral. For lateral cartilage development for instance, you need yaw.
I am glad you appreciate the need for sole and frog contact with the ground. Dr. Bowker DVM, PhD (Michigan State) calls all shoes "peripheral loading devices". We don't want to load the walls. That's why barefoot advocates bevel or add a mustang roll.
4SweetFeet 3 years ago 2
I totally agree with you. All my horses are barefoot and can trot and canter on gravel trails. People use shoes because they think there supposed to and they think it's the only way to keep their horse sound. It's just a matter of educating people in natural trimming. I was talking to a felow ferrier and he thinks that if your horse is bare foot you cant ride it much and there's no such thing in performance trimming, which there is.
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Now that's funny what the farrier said! That's it, next time I take my horse out (he's barefoot of course) I'm video taping us cantering on gravel packed trails and putting it on youtube. Shoulda done this a long time ago. :)
emr2e 3 years ago
Yeah, hes the best farier in Roanoke, VA as well, it really shocked me that he knew almost nothing about barefoot trimming. I started out working at a barefoot rehab center for cronic founder cases when I was 12,im 20 now, so I know a bit about barefoot trimming. But he still didint belive me, lol.
XArabHunterX 3 years ago
Im questioning what you are trying to say about the heel.... The only reason that medial heel even moved that much is because of the shear put on it by having the heel caulk on the lateral heel and not on the medial heel. The heel caulk did nothing to prevent the movement of the heel. Please disprove me...simply put another heel caulk on the other side and note the movement between the two heels. Its possible Im the idiot here but I dont think that caulk preventeted movement
ryderguy18 3 years ago 2
Can we buy these shoes online?
rene0127 4 years ago
I used to be a farrier that went over to barefoot because I saw so much damage from shoeing and I like the way the hoof gets to move in boots and pads. I'm way impressed that you are looking for the flex in the hoof and that you want the frog to hit the ground. I wish all shoes were made out of that steel. I'm Swedish by the way.(LOL) Åsa
linustheferret 4 years ago 2
how on earth do you shape a shoe that springs back? I assume if it goes in the forge it loses its springy-ness once cooled? Also what are these shoes called?
HoofSupport 4 years ago
we will show on a video how to do it.and you are right about the forge. they are known by RACER better than barefoot
csvens 4 years ago
i guess clipping them is out.
HoofSupport 4 years ago
they come toeclipped
csvens 4 years ago