How long are the creation "days" in Genesis 1?

[SonOfNye]

Seriously, props to this man for not rejecting the reality that science has shown us.

[MrHobiecat]

One of moses' commandments is you shall work for 6 DAYS and rest on the 7th DAY or be stoned to death. He said the reason is that god created the earth in 6 DAYS.

the jews understood this clearly, they did not work for 6 weeks or 6 years or 6 thousand years and rest on the 7th, the knew what a DAY MEANS

and they stoned anyone who worked on a saturday. This video is trying to rationalize away the fact that the bible is not EVEN wrong, its totally absurd.

[MrHobiecat]

@MrHobiecat AND NOT TO mention the genesis accound says 'sun rise and sun set :ONE DAY!"

the guy in the video is full of kwrap and he knows it.

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat

Are you trying to convince yourself?

=P

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 No, Ihave no problem grasping something that is perfectly clear in meanign and intent.

The guy in the video on the other hand, is trying to rationalize away things that we know, which prove the bible is not even wrong, its totally absurd. He has totally failed.

The bible says what it says, and its been proven to be totally wrong, therefore it is NOT the 'word' of any creator/god, it is ancient mythology bullKwrap.

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat I was making light of the fact that you were replying to yourself.

Anyway - I think Dr Ross makes good points. I sense you don't want him or the Bible to be true, but the fact is, the Bible provides very little detail about the creation event, it's men who interpret it this way or that. I do believe, and you will find out to late, my friend, that the Creator described in it is Who He says He is, did what He says He did and will do what He says He will.

Check out William Lane Craig

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 whether or not you WANT to believe something is true does not change the reality of it being true.

The creator described in the bible does not exist. Science has proven this indisputable. The world was not magically created in 6 DAYS as the bible claims, driven home by moses command that you shall be put to death if you work on the 7th DAY (same word used).

The world was not created 77 generations before the time of jesus.

The world was not flooded in 2500BC as claimed...

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 All of humanity was NOT dispersed from any single location with their languages confused any time after 2500BC, as the bible claims.

The earth is NOT fixed on a foundation and unmoveable, as the bible claims (and for which Galileo was threatened with death for refuting.

Whats more, when your brain cells are not active, YOU have no awareness or consciousness, when you die you will cease to exist, and will experience nothing.

Time to grow up now RPM!

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat You know nothing about the confusion of language, least of all the proposed date, as the Bible gives no clear timescale and neither you or your friends were around at the time. From mans perspective, the earth is immovable and is somehow fixed in a position - you go ahead and try to move it. As far as when you die, again you know nothing because you haven't been there, but it's clear to all that a life force departs from the body. We believe that goes on, you don't - try to prove it.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 the old testiment lists the father to son, father to son... generations from adam to abraham in the OT, giving the age of the father when the next in line was born, so it gives an ABSOLUTE time scale. Jesus has his geneology listed in two books of the NT, and lists the number of generations total from adam to jesus: 77!

This absolutely puts a fixed time span from adam to abraham, and an excellent timespan from abraham to jesus....

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 devotely sincere christians who have studied this put creation at 4004 BC, and in fact, that is what the jewish calender is based on, for them this year is 6000 something.

Following the geneologies that puts Noah near 2500 BC, and babel several generations after.

I dont need to have lived for 6000 years to know the account the bible gives is totally wrong. Life has existed on earth for over a BILLION years, and humans for over 200,000 years!....

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "I dont need to have lived for 6000 years to know the account the bible gives is totally wrong. Life has existed on earth for over a BILLION years, and humans for over 200,000 years"

What evidence do you have for these figures? And have you considered sources other than those who support such notions?

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 the fact that you dont understand the wealth of knowledge and information that humanity has acquired using the self correcting methods of science, over the last 500 years

only shows that YOU dont understand it.

The thing that puzzles me is that you seem to be so proud of yourself, for being so totally ignorant of the reality of the universe you live in!

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat

Okay, don't answer the question then - I was only asking for evidence. There's no need for the ad hominums - where did you get the idea that I'm so proud of myself - because I questioned your position? It seems you tremble at the thought the Bible is true, that God is real and Jesus is His Son. Why are you trawling through creation videos trying to undo them? If they are so ignorant and lacking in understanding, why don't you just laugh at them as such and get on with your life?

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 You are not asking for 'other sources' of collective knowledge and understanding, you are denying the reality of the nature of life, and the nature of the universe, and you know it.

Since the scientific method of gaining knowledge, and building of the shoulders of the researchers who have gone before us, since this began 500 years ago, humanity has reached a global understanding that has transformed our lives, greatly improved the quality of life, and extended the length...

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 ... of our lives by a factor of nearly three. That is because science doesnt care what you BELIEVE, science rewards what you know and understand. When you understand how the universe works you can APPLY that knowledge: technology, medicine, agriculture, engineering and get real results and real benefits.

But you are not into any of that, you are worried about what people believe, which affects nothing. Whatever thoughts are running through your mind when you die, will ...

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "science rewards what you know and understand."

Science gives out rewards? Surely you mean when we discover how things actually work we can use it to our advantage? Which again, has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. Oh, and contrary to your projected opinion of me (an aggressive atheist favourite), I love science and have a degree in science and post grad education. I still await the evidence you have for the non-existence of God.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 the bible defines a supposed creator/god by the actions that god performed. If those things never happened as it claims, then that god does not exist.

If you really think the world and the first human was created in 6 days as the bible claims, 77 generations before the time of jesus, as the geneology of jesus says

and you are willing to ignore the indisputable evidence that proves this is totally false, then you are no scientist....

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "If those things never happened as it claims, then that god does not exist."

Or it could be aggressive atheists such as you like to form a particular interpretation that you imagine is easier to refute, then try to project that onto all Christians - like you're doing now. Hence, your obsessive, aggressive, abusive and unsubstantiated attempt to debunk the claims made here in this video.

I'm only willing to ignore your twisted projections and question your lack of evidence.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 there is nothing to interpret. Have you even READ the bible? Its claimed to be the word of a creator/god, does your god have a learning disability that it is not able to communicate clearly?

the problem is not with the interpretation of what it says. Ask an orthodox rabbi what year it is, referenced to the day of creation? Its their mythology, are you going to tell them they are not 'doing' their religion right?

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat Genesis gives an account of creation that provides precious few details.It can be interpreted like those you refer to (Rabbis), but others like Dr Ross, have a different view. He, taking into consideration some of the modern scientific observations/theories, is making valid points and it's driving you insane. Whether his position is the truth or not remains to be seen. The bottom line is, the Bible gives very little info about it. Nobody can explain creation with complete confidence.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 AGAIN: the person who wrote the creation myth in the bible ALSO wrote the ten commandments he claims he got from god. ONE of which says you SHALL work for 6 DAYS and rest on the 7th DAY, or be stoned to death.

HE used the SAME word in both places, and he goes on to explain why: BECAUSE god created the world in six DAYS. Not 6 weeks, years, centuries, thousands of years...

the bible is PERFECTLY clear, YOU just refuse to admit that its also PERFECTLY WRONG!

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat

Please explain the following:

1. What is the universe?

2. Did it have a beginning?

3. How did it begin?

Three simple questions for your scientific mind to clarify. I await your answer.

Peace.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 AGAIN: the fact that YOU are not able to grasp our basic understanding of the nature of the universe, does NOT mean therefore the musings of ancient goat farmers is true.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 ...you have not been able to refute anything I posted, and you have chosen to ignore all of it and remain stewed in your ignorance of reality.

what university taught you that?! Someone owes you an apology, and a refund.

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "you have not been able to refute anything I posted"

Maybe you just don't like my answers.

And, I still await answers to my questions.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 .. NOT change the fact that, when you die, you will cease to exist, just like everyone else.

Because the world was NOT magically created 77 generations before the time of jesus, by anyone or anything, being born is NOT a crime against the universe that demands eternal punishment, a human sacrifice is NOT the answer to anything, and there is NO non-physcial aspect to your consciousness or awareness.

AGAIN: its time to grow up now!

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "Because the world was NOT magically created 77 generations before the time of jesus, by anyone or anything"

I don't think it explicitly claim such.

You said: "being born is NOT a crime against the universe that demands eternal punishment"

The Bible doesn't say it is.

You said: "a human sacrifice is NOT the answer to anything"

Merely evidence that you don't understand God's holiness, your sinfulness and need for propitiation.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 YOU dont think the bible says that ?! DO you own a bible?!

READ the geneologies in the NT for jesus, they are both different, but one specifically says "77 generations from adam to jesus"

and killing an animal or an innocent person is the OPPOSITE of morality. You know this, if anyone else practiced human sacrifice you would be outraged, but for you its ok.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 one last thing, If you want to prove that jesus/ god is real, its very simple: Produce jesus in person.

If there was a creator/god as you claim, we would not be debating whether it exists or not, because it would be HERE. It would be here all the time.

there would be no religions, there would be no wars over whos god is the one true god, because you dont need to prove the existance or debate the nature of something that is REALLY a part of your life, everyones life.

[RPM11111]

@MrHobiecat said: "one last thing, If you want to prove that jesus/ god is real, its very simple: Produce jesus in person"

I am certain that at some point he will introduce Himself to you.

You said: "If there was a creator/god as you claim, we would not be debating whether it exists or not, because it would be HERE. It would be here all the time."

I assume you mean "He" would be here. Please explain why this has to be so.

[MrHobiecat]

@RPM11111 clearly you need the obvious to be explained to you?

did your father hide from you and leave only stories about his existance, and require YOU to go find him?

Did he leave you to think there are a thousand possible people who might be your father, and you have to figure out which one?

You are so lost in this nonsene you cant grasp any of the basic facts in any of my posts. Keep reading your bible, the lights will come on someday, and you will be an atheist too!

[MrHobiecat]

@MrHobiecat When you sleep without dreaming, or you are sedated properly for surgery, you have no consciousness whatsoever. This has been thoroughly tested and proven by science, your awareness is PURELY a function of the activity of your brain cells.

IF you had a non-physical soul or spirit, you would experience floating in a void for 6 hours a night, when you are not dreaming, waiting for your body to stir back into activity. You dont, no one does, because you have no soul...

[MrHobiecat]

@MrHobiecat whats more, when people suffer brain damage from illness or injury it can completely change their character, it can wipe out their memories, including the fact that they have a spouse and children - again - totally a function of your brain cells, not some imaginary soul or spirit.

So when your brain is dead, you will have no awareness, and no memory. The evidence of this is indisputable, you will cease to exist

same as everyone else.

[JungleJargon]

Oh, and it does matter what we say because what we do is based on what we believe.

You cannot believe irrational things or you will become irrational.

The earth's strata is the direct result of the global flood because there is no other possible origin of sediments and no other way for the sediments to have covered everything that was living on earth.

Your belief is irrational and it will make you crazy.

[kemalcs]

@JungleJargon Global flood never happened..there is no way that it could happen

[Omega17297]

@kemalcs How could it not happen? Cultures and religions all over the world openly state that there was a global flood that destroyed nearly all of life.

[kemalcs]

@Omega17297 Funny explanation...watch?v=CccaGaKO­lSI

[MrHobiecat]

@Omega17297 Ask a native american why they were not all wiped out in the flood of noah, in 2500BC like they were suppose to be? They have been here for 13,000 years, and so have millions of species of plants, animals, insects.... that could not POSSIBLY exist on the american continents, if it was wiped clean in 2500BC, as the bible claims.

The continents have been separated for 250 MILLION years, not 4500 years.

Are you that stupid that you cant figure this out?!

[JungleJargon]

The 100 million cubic miles of micro sediments did not go away.

watch?v=qZev7hb40uk

[1Skeptik1]

The ancient Herbrew had no idea the Earth was a sphere spinning on a axis (causing day and night) that "wobbles" about a center point in a 26,000 yr cycle, nor understood each day is getting longer and will continue to do so until Earth and Moon are locked facing each other. Seems their GOD as ignorant of the solar systen as were those "inspired" to craft the tales told around the camp fires in the bronze age. Magical thinking alive and well today, how sad.

[gregrutz]

Do like you alwasy do, make the bible say anything you want.

[DNGR411]

This guy's full of crap. . .

[GSOlsen123]

Just a note to say thank you. I am embarrassed as a Christian when creation arguments are put forward and fact that fly in the face of facts (or at least such overwhelming science that they have no credence).

So thank you for your work and your ability to put forth explanations that we can hold to and still think real thoughts.

Gene

[mcdinkity]

a day is a day sun goes up sun goes down a day religious people are just trying to get around the bits that science has proved to be rubbish

[adonelahi]

Thats what they said back in my day....

[adonelahi]

@mcdinkity The Hebrew Bible is a different ball game...

[Tapiola2007]

Oh dear, almost as bad as the ignorant Creatard is the scientifically aware individual who knows all the basic information that supports the natural processes explanation but then throws god into the mix. It's not surprising that people are reluctant to leave behind a world view that has shaped their lives but come on, enough already! It's a bad joke that has been told too often. Time to let it go and move on!

[James5877]

@ShITYouWannaKNO The Son of God is fully God(Hebrews 1:8, Titus 2:13, Colossians 2:9). When the Bible talks about Jesus as being "the firstborn" it is talking about His pre-eminence. In Jewish culture, the firstborn was the heir of all things, so to say that Jesus is the "firstborn" of all creation is talking about His pre-eminence over all things, and the fact that He is the heir of all things. If you read Hebrews 1, you will see that it teaches that Jesus is not angel, but God Himself.

[James5877]

@ShITYouWannaKNO The Bible clearly teaches the trinity. The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but it is clearly taught in the Bible. The Bible never says that Jesus is an angel, in fact, Hebrews 1 says that Jesus is not an angel.

[James5877]

@ShITYouWannaKNO Jesus is fully God(Hebrews 1:8, Titus 2:13, Colossian 2:9). God loves us so much that He took on flesh as Jesus Christ and became the sacrifice for our sins, the innocent in place of the guilty, so that we can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus. The Bible and the Christian church have always taught that Jesus is fully God.

[TheDano1947]

A biblical day is just not that important.It's like asking if god's work week was forty hour and did he get over time on Saturday.

[James5877]

Jesus proved that He is God by rising from the dead. Read the evidence for His resurrection.

[Heliosvector]

@James5877 there is no evidence. sorry ^_^

[R5d4d2]

All you religious people are nuts! Talk about reaching for an answer.

Why can't you just live with not knowing how we got here?

Why can't you just follow where the evidence leads and simply live a life that does not harm others. Very Simple!

[James5877]

@R5d4d2 I am a Christian because the Bible is confirmed by the evidence. Jesus said "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." - Matthew 22:39. How is that "harming others"??

[R5d4d2]

@James5877 With respect, my problem is with all religions who claim they KNOW the truth about anything.

As far as harm, ask the following groups if they have ever suffered persecution at the hands of religious groups: Christians in general, Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Muslims in general, Shiites, Sunnis, Jews, Secular, Orthodox, Hindus, Sikhs, AND the current big one in the USA Gays? I believe that most religious people are good people, but NOT becasue of their religions. Peace!

[James5877]

@R5d4d2 "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6

[R5d4d2]

@James5877 "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" - Ben Franklin.

Can you trust the words written down by John the gospel author (not John the apostle) decades after the death of Jesus? Who can say if there was artistic license being used to ENHANCE the story. Hollywood does it all the time. Even IF Jesus DID utter those words, who is to say that they were true. Could not Yeshua the man (not Jesus the god) have been deluded? Plenty since have claimed falsely divinity.

[James5877]

Hugh Ross is a great man of God, and he's also right. Read his book "A Matter of Days". Old-earth creationists are NOT evolutionists, we just believe the earth is old. The Hebrew word for "day" in Genesis is yom. Yom has several literal meanings, including a Long, but finite period of time. Yom is used in Gen. 2:4 to refer to all of the creation days. The Hebrew word boqer for "morning" also means "beginning", and ereb for "evening" also means "completion". Read "A Matter of Days".

[accent77]

This guy makes some interesting arguments.

[gonho1991]

Hugh Ross is refuted in the book "Refuting Compromise".

[RCACsurvivorman]

HERETIC ALERT!!!

[5tonyvvvv]

@RCACsurvivorman In regards to RNA/DNA - could you please explain the problem of Chirality? Your hands are an example of Chirality.*

Although Miller and Urey formed amino acids in their experiments in 1952 - all the amino acids that formed lacked chirality.

It is a universally accepted fact of chemistry that chirality cannot be created in chemical molecules by a random process.or in a test tube

the atheist faith is always right,and has all the answers..BULLSHIT

[RCACsurvivorman]

@5tonyvvvv dude, im not an atheist what so ever. i know of all the problems of naturally occurring substances and darwin himself knew it too. if u were replying to my "HERETIC ALERT" comment i was saying that his theology is waaaay off. in no way are the creation days 1 million days otherwise moses would have said so when he wrote genesis.

[5tonyvvvv]

@RCACsurvivorman ok sorry,how do u feel about ..Chirality..most scientists believe in some chemistry unknown to science

[RCACsurvivorman]

@5tonyvvvv i have never heard of that but no matter what, the building blocks of life have impossible odds to create naturally. in the experiments where amino acids were formed they were formed in an atmosphere that would not have existed "if" the earth were formed naturally. shortly after that experiment, scientists changed the theory on the original atmosphere of the earth because they found out that hydrogen would be too light to stay on the non-atmosphere earth.

[5tonyvvvv]

@RCACsurvivorman yes but either way..how could life form?..people have tried in oxygen free rooms..and ones with oxygen,,so whats the deal???

[RCACsurvivorman]

@5tonyvvvv thats what i am getting at. there is no possible natural way for life to form. if life were transferred from another planet, it has the same problems. the test that resulted in amino acids was tested in an environment that would not exist according to scientific theory. like Romans says "all things in nature point to God"

[5tonyvvvv]

@RCACsurvivorman Agreed..have u ever made any primitive arrows.?..do u have primitive skills? do u hunt and fish?

[RCACsurvivorman]

@5tonyvvvv i do hunt and fish and am always amazed at the wonderful nature that God gave to us for food but also for our pure enjoyment and amazement of his glory.

[kmiroshkhin]

@ezekialwheel

And as for lame question, I really don't think there is a lame question in regards to the origins of the universe. It's really really fascinating topic! As for me being lame or not, you are the judge, but it seems irrelevant to this discussion.

[kmiroshkhin]

@ezekialwheel

Newton.. sure he was a christian, but again he lived some 300 years ago. He knew very little about principles of evolution, our own planet, and anything in the universe outside of our own solar system. As for Einstein... he was agnostic to say the least:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." -Einstein

[wap2uk]

im sorry but religious people must be stupid to still be believing in stone-age beliefs get some sense and realise that you just want not to die and want to have a master over you when there is none.

[nolobede]

This video, and the panel is an insult to human intellect.

It is amazing, the length some creationists will go to twist fact into fiction to fit their agenda.

[alph0214]

what if God is still resting? he is watching us, our time is his 7th day, he is resting, he is not yet finish in creating our life. he is resting because he is watching us?? just curious

[RCACsurvivorman]

@alph0214 he stopped resting when he made adam.

[alph0214]

@RCACsurvivorman yeah i agree with you, but didn't you just realize that God is still watching us? he is still guiding us...he's listening to our prayers, he works 24 hours just for you, and he's still creating wonderful creations like us... each and everyone of us here on earth has a purpose, and we have to realize what God did write in our life... that he is still preparing our new home?

[RCACsurvivorman]

@alph0214 oh for not one millisecond would he take his heart off of us. we are constently blessed by his mercy and forgiveness and he will never leave us. and i cant wait to go to our home which he shall provide for us.

[BlackRaptor31]

Genesis is a fictional account of the creation of the earth taken from the babylonians by the early jews.

It gets the order completely wrong. Birds did not come before land animals. How could we even have days before the sun was made? What about light? Where was that coming from before any stars were made?

[doublel4]

@BlackRaptor31 - there is an excellent article that answers your questions directly here on their website. In summary - Based on the Hebrew word meanings, the following picture emerges. "In the beginning" God created the universe -- the Sun, Moon, stars, Earth and planets (1:1). In verse 2, the viewpoint changes to the surface of the Earth (the Spirit of God was hovering "over the waters").

[doublel4]

@BlackRaptor31 - Initially, the Earth was dark (1:2). On the first "day," God caused sunlight to penetrate the darkness (1:3-5). On the fourth "day," God caused the Sun, Moon and stars to become visible from the surface of the Earth (1:19-20), having made them earlier (1:16) as part of His creative activity prior to the six creation "days."

[BlackRaptor31]

@doublel4 Changing the story as it is written in the bible doesnt make it true.

You are inventing an entirely new story.

Why would the earth be dark in the first place?

It still doesnt change the fact that they took the story from the babylonians anyway. Genesis cannot be considered to be historically accurate in any way. Attempts to justify it dont work.

[RCACsurvivorman]

@BlackRaptor31 the one thing that you need to remember is the creation week was supernatural. it was not natural meaning that the laws of nature did not matter during this supernatural phase of the universe. and how could they have taken it from the babylonians if it was moses who wrote the first 5 books upon the mountain during the 40 years the israelites were in the desert?

[SpittD]

The sad thing is I really like this guy, he is genuine and funny. The problem at least as I see it is that if he is right, then he also has to explain Adam's lifespan. even if Adam is made late on the 6th "day" By age 150 he has had 3 sons which all occur on or after the 7th "day." Assuming then that say 100 years of Adam's life was only 1% of the entire "day" That is 10,000 yearstimes 6 "days." 60,000 years of 4.6 billion years that we know the earth to have been material.

[SpittD]

If we then assume that each day is equal a day is between 700 million and 800 million years long for God. We are now about 6-10 thousand years into the 7th "day" Assuming God rests for the entire 7th, then we can not expect the return of Jesus for 699,990,000 More years at the least..... or maybe I am assuming too much?

[lizazoon]

Genesis is fiction, allegory. From the 106 schools that make up the " Christian College Coalition" only 5 teach that Genesis has to be taken litterally and that the "global flood" really happened.

[2003SCT]

Wow....Biblical Hebrew had few nouns and a seeming low specificity when it comes to words that are "super important". Even more evidence for God being an idiot and deciding that a book that people will misinterpret which is written by humans is the best way he can think to spread knowledge.

[NephilimFree]

Some versions of the BB theory require an equal production of matter and antimatter. However, only small traces of antimatter (positrons, antiprotons) are found in space.

[NephilimFree]

I dare him to debate me. i would be courteous, but ruthless as well. He'd be selling pencisl when i got through with him. he'd leave the auditorium trying to hide his face.

[usedbrain]

Your pride is very amusing.

[FunnyVideoCollector]

The Large hadron Collider will creat the big bang when it's upto full power creating the universe without a starting point or creator with a beard.

[gwsbaxter]

But it did have a creator. It had to be built didn't it?

[kmiroshkhin]

@gwsbaxter

watch has to have a watch-maker. I get it.  But that watch-maker himself has his parents who made him. So the next logical question is, who created God? If the answer is unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of universe is unanswerable? There is no need for that extra step.

[gwsbaxter]

@kmiroshkhin Ah, Bertrand Russell's argument.

First, you assume God had to have a beginning.

Second. you are asking the wrong question. If you are the watch and you find out there is a watchmaker, your first question is not going to be who is the watchmakers parents? It' going to be and has to be who is this watchmaker? Why did he make me?

[kmiroshkhin]

@gwsbaxter There are two options: Creator exists or does not exist.

Let's assume that creator does exist (which I am perfectly willing to conceptualize); what gives Christianity god such an advantage to be THE creator? Why not other thousands of gods that other civilizations believed and worshiped to? I am Agnostic towards the existence of creator however I am atheist towards the existence of gods established by religions of the earth. However I understand that religion does provide comfort.

[gwsbaxter]

@kmiroshkhin Do you mind if I pm you?  My response will take longer the 487 characters youtube allows.

[kmiroshkhin]

@gwsbaxter

Absolutely! I would be very interested to hear what you would say on this subject... if you don't mind of course.

[gwsbaxter]

@FunnyVideoCollector But you do realize... someone had to create the LHC. Meaning the LHC had a creator... meaning something caused the big bang...

[NephilimFree]

Many scientists assume that the universe will eventually collapse inward. Then it will again explode, and repeat its oscillating type of perpetual motion. This idea is an effort to avoid an origin and destiny for the universe. For oscillation to occur, the universe must have a certain density or distribution of mass. So far, measurements of the mass density are a hundred times smaller than expected. The universe does not appear to be oscillating. The necessary mass is "missing."

[cliffw77]

The very fact that the universe is speeding up, destroys the Idea of an osilating Universe

[NephilimFree]

I would say so.

[cliffw77]

actually Ross goes into the problems Osilating models have in his book Creator and the Cosmos (and this is before the discovery that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate)

[NephilimFree]

Ross is an idiot. Black holes can't explode. All the matter in the universe in a singularity would be one heckuva black hole. The thing he bases his believf that it could explode upon is the supposed existance of dark matter and belief there must be an stupendous amount of it everywhere. But science cannot and has not yet provided physical, scientific evidence that dark matter exists. So the BB theory is based upon an assumption and is not scientific. That's the way it goes down.

[Bobathefish]

You keep calling Ross an idiot. Do you have more education or scientific training than him? What can you show to that makes you superior to Ross?

Very often one will find that people who for some reason disagree on things but don't have clear understanding of the matter will resort to calling people degrading names. Are you among these?

[NephilimFree]

Yes, he's an idiot. There's a lot of evidence that discredits hos crap claims, and his claim that the bible does not support a young earth is downright STUPID. He's a moron.

Hugh, you're a dingbat.

[NephilimFree]

Missing Antimatter (Dark matter). Some versions of the Big Bang theory require an equal production of matter and antimatter. However, only small traces of antimatter (positrons, antiprotons) are found in space.

[NephilimFree]

The Big Bang theory assumes an original concentration of energy. Where did this energy come from? Astronomers sometimes speak of origin from a "quantum mechanical fluctuation within a vacuum." However, an energy source is still needed. Actually, there is no secular origin theory, since every idea is based on preexisting matter or energy.

[usedbrain]

This is the first statement that I can agree with you on.

[NephilimFree]

Hugh Ross is an idiot. The Big Bang is impossible. Black holes can't explode. If there had ever been a singularity, it would constitute a black hole of unimaginable power. Hugh Ross knows this too.

[Chulacker]

Woot,i like this intellectual gymnastic.

[OmegaIsNear]

Check out 'the Science of God' videos at Knowheretorun1984's site by Dr Schroder and you will understand Genesis day's are viewed from the beginning of time, 6 days there can be literal-yet be billions of years from our perspective.

[NephilimFree]

He's wrong. The word yom depends upon context. "the evening and the morening" are the cotext. It means a 24 hr day.

[NephilimFree]

Genesis 1:1 is an opening summary statement. The days of creation are defined in the following descriptions. Genesis 2:4 is the closing statement.

[usedbrain]

The beginning of the Creation account in Genesis starts with the "Heaven's and Earth" already in existence before God starts the "Creative Days" Gen 1:1,2 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep..." This shows that the "primitive" earth existed for an unspecified time BEFORE the Creation account begins. Does the Bible say the Creative Days 24hrs long? NO

[usedbrain]

When a summary of creation is made in the 2nd chapter of Genesis, all 6 Creative Days are collectively called "Day". As per many bible versions, Gen 2:4 reads, "This is the history of the heavens and of the earth when they were created. In THE DAY that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." This shows that to constrict the biblical definition of DAY to a 24hr period is disingenuous at best.

[usedbrain]

Each of the six creative days concludes with the statement: And there came to be evening and there came to be morning a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth day. The seventh day, however, does not have this ending, indicating that this period, during which God has been resting from his creative works toward the earth, continued on.

[usedbrain]

At Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that Gods rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began. This makes it evident that each creative day, or work period, was at least thousands of years in length. As "A Religious Encyclopedia" (Vol. I, p. 613) observes: The days of creation were creative days, stages in the process, but not days of twenty-four hours each.

[NephilimFree]

They can't be. The Hebrew text provides context with "the evening and the morning". The Bible is quite clear that the days were litteral 24 hour days. All Hebrew Bible scholars agree on this point.

[usedbrain]

NO THEY DO NOT ALL AGREE ON THIS POINT!

[plasdas]

this isn't removing the viod between what science says and what the bible says because he has got his science wrong

[NephilimFree]

Hebre scholars are the world's authority on the words of the Old Testament. They unanimously agree that yom in Genesis refers to a literal 24 hr day, partly because it is used in the following way:

"and the morning and the evening were the first day (yom)."

Morning and evening tdo not denote long periods of time. They denote a litteral day.

Without the qualifier, you might have reason to believe YOM means a period of time. But Genesis is quite clear on the mattrer.

[MrBillTroop73]

Perhaps the hebrew word for morning could be translated better as dawning or beginning, and thus not actually be a literal 24 hour day?

[usedbrain]

God brought about a division between the light and the darkness. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. (Ge 1:4, 5) Here the word Day refers to the daylight hours in contrast with the nighttime. However, the record thereafter goes on to use the word day to refer to other units of time of varying length. In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, the word day (Heb., yohm; Gr., he‧me′ra) is used in a literal and in a figurative or even symbolic sense.

[usedbrain]

Your comments regarding a rigid interpretation of "YOHM" are dishonest and inaccurate. "YOHM" of Genesis has more shades of meaning than you are admitting. This understanding was also that offered by the Spanish rabbi Aben-Ezra (1092-1167), as well as by the Samaritans and the Karaite Jews. It is the view presented by such scholars as Michaelis, Rosenmueller, Gesenius, Maurer, Kalisch, Knobel, and Keil. Here is a word that you need to learn, NUANCE!

[NephilimFree]

And this:

w w w . bibletruths . n e t / Archives / BTAR114 . h t m

If you are not willing to investigate the matter, it reveals trhat you are more interested in sticking with your personal views than with wat is or is not true.

That is almost always the case with evolutionists. They are unwilling to investigate or accept what science or the bible reveal. That is why evolutionism is based upon emotional rejection of Jesus Christ, and not intellectual reasons.

[NephilimFree]

"I heard it in a lecture where he quoted various scriptures through the Bible where the word "yom" was NOT used to describe a 24 hour period."

In genesis it does. Read this:

w w w . answersincreation . o r g / word_study_yom . h t m

Other uses of the word are in reference to perios od growth etc. This requires a qualifier. Without a qualifier, in the hebrew language, YOM means a literal 24 hr. day.

[cadborasaurus]

Yes, yom is the only word he could have used. So you look at the context in which it is used and you get traditional, roughly 24-hour days.

[TheHonestTheist]

what is the procedure of looking "at the context"?

And what were the original Hebrew commentaries on interpreting Gen 1? Surely those would tell us the correct way to interpret?

[cadborasaurus]

okay, looking at the context is looking at how it is used with the words around it. "Yom" is used with a day, night, day, night cycle. (e.g. 'and the evening and the morning were the first day').

Also, we use our English word "day" different ways too. "Back in my father's day, it took seven days to go to town during the day." We all know what the word "day" is supposed to mean, by looking at the CONTEXT. So, we use the same procedure to find out what their word for day meant in Genesis.

[NephilimFree]

"and the morning and the evening were the first day (yom)."

Morning and evening are the context for YOM.

[cadborasaurus]

"nephilimfree", are you young or old creationist. I can't tell by your response to my comment. I was promoting a young earth in my comment.

[NephilimFree]

"That's why you didn't argue physical death."

Nonsence. If it were not so, God would be a liar. You're making Him out to be a liar. He told Adam that He would die that day, and he did.

"Adam & Eve was not created immortal apart from the Tree Of Life"

False. Everything God made was "good".

"so had they never sinned, and had they never ate from the Tree Of Life"

Jesus said "Have ye not read that in the beginning He made them male and female."

No evolution, no long ages.

[NephilimFree]

"Because thanks to Calvary everyone in the world is already forgiven"

False. If that were true, none would perish. God paid for thier sins. If they reject His work on the cross, they perish.

"And so the mere forgiveness of sins"

False. If that were true, none would perish.

"No one needs to accept Christ to get forgiven."

False. If that were true none would perish.

"But rather to become born again spiritually"

Which you won't do if you reject Him and perish.

[NephilimFree]

No, yom is not used with 3 meanings in Genesis. Every instance of it in the Bible which refers to a day is in reference to a 24 hr literal day.

[TheHonestTheist]

"Every instance of it in the Bible which refers to a day is in reference to a 24 hr literal day"

I can't give you the scriptures, but i know for a fact that is wrong! I heard it in a lecture where he quoted various scriptures through the Bible where the word "yom" was NOT used to describe a 24 hour period.

Not to mention I think that is irrelevent anyway. It doesn't matter how they use it in other places, the only question is 1) can you use it in different ways 2) how was it used in Genesis

[JustAboutMyFaith]

I've yet to debate with a YEC who was able to "stay on point". That's why you didn't argue physical death. Adam & Eve was not created immortal apart from the Tree Of Life. And so had they never sinned, and had they never ate from the Tree Of Life either, then there can be no other conclusion that they would have eventually died a natural physical death from old age. Period. End of debate. And so all you could do was agree with me it was spiritual only.

[JustAboutMyFaith]

As for the word "yom". If God had spoken the grass & trees into existence on day three by the mere utterance of His voice (as He did with light on day one) then you could be on solid ground. But since He said let the earth itself bring them forth, then clearly there is substantial reason in this case to discern the word "yom" as a very long period of time. Moreover, as Dr. Ross also points out, Adam could not have possibly named all the animals in a mere 24 hours either !

[JustAboutMyFaith]

As for what it takes to enter into Heaven. You got that wrong too ! Because thanks to Calvary everyone in the world is already forgiven (1Jn.2:2 & 2Cor.5:19) And so the mere forgiveness of sins, in and of itself, is not Salvation (Rom.5:8-10) No one needs to accept Christ to get forgiven. But rather to become born again spiritually (Jn.3:5) because of the spiritual death (and not physical) we inherited from the first Adam (Rom.5:12) That's why we must all accept & receive the last (1.Cor.15:45)

[NephilimFree]

The beginning was the creation week. The word "Yom" means "day". God said "on that day, ye shall surely die" - proof that the term day means a literal day. In Gen 1:5"Yom" occurs in context with the word "night". outside of Gen 1, "night" is used with Yom 53 times, each time the text refers to a 24hr period. The plural of "Yom" which does not appear in Gen 1 is often used to communicate a longer period of time!

[JustAboutMyFaith]

WRONG! I'm not an evolutionist. But this is where every YEC goes astray right from their very first step. Adam & Eve did not die a physical death on the selfsame day they sinned. And so the death God was talking about was spiritual and not physical. That's it. End of debate. And anything you say to try and include physical death just makes YOU look like an "idiot creationist". And so I'll continue to hold to real scientists like Ross & Strobel. And you can continue to believe in false YEC dogma!

[NephilimFree]

Adam DID die the day he sinned! He died spiritually. He became DEAD to God and unable to enter heaven without forgiveness. YOU were born dead as well, and cannot enter heaven without the forgiveness of Jesus Christ. This is how Adam died the day he sinned. Yom means day, and in every instance in the Bible it is used in reference to a literal 24 hr day. Genesis is no different. it is your personal interpretation that is erroneous. You attemp to apply age to it that does not exist in scripture.

[BillieforRTB]

It's very interesting that the word "yom" is used with all three of its primary literal meanings in the Genesis creation account. Verse 1:5 - "God called the light 'day'..." This is "yom" being used to mean the daylight portion of a day. Verse 1:14 - "...signs to mark seasons and days and years." Here it refers to calendar days. And 2:4 - "...in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven." Yom again, referring to the whole creation week - clearly a period longer than one calendar day.

[TheHonestTheist]

im not sure about your first part, but the part about yom being used to describe the entire 7 days is correct and a good example, right alongside the scriptures we are interpreting, that yom is used to describe "a period of time" as well as a "24 period"

[excatholics]

Everybody, until the 19th century, held to literal 24hr days. Ross, wanting to fit in with evolution, moves away from this and sadly becomes an old earth man-theistic evolution too, one wonders.

[NephilimFree]

Well said.

[BillieforRTB]

Well, not everyone held to a calendar-day view before the 19th century. Some thought creation had been instantaneous, and that the term "day" was being used figuratively. And some thought that each day might have been 1,000 years. Before the 19th century, the issue just didn't seem very important.

But as an RTB volunteer apologist, I want to assure you that the folks at RTB are creationists and do not embrace theistic evolution.

[TheHonestTheist]

"And some thought that each day might have been 1,000 years"

Yeh, the one's with really bad theology, where they take the passage II Peter 3:8, which contains the phrase "a day is like a thousand years" Take it completely out of context and apply it to Genesis! That's completely wrong.

And if evolution isn't true (i do believe in God, but have doubts that evolution isn't true) why do men have nipples? rather pointless is it not? Unless we did evolve.