Hi, Jody, Alcoholic. I tried AA and it didn't work for me even though I did the program. Eventually I became sober embarassingly enough, through tony robbins, I'm not rich today but I'm sober. After 20 months in AA just to have a social life with non drinkers I have dropped out of program because I am disturbed by many of the abuses the old timers put upon the newcommers. I don't beleive my only choices are AA or drink. I can stay sober, as is best for me, and not go to AA.
@jodywhiteley Tony Robbins is a much better explanation for success than surrender upon the altar of powerlessness. Glad things are going well for you. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
methinks thou doth protest too much. the program is there if you want it, otherwise go ahead and try to control ur drinking. we sincerely hope u prevail. if not... 'who cares to admit complete defeat?' not me. i got completely defeated- a total ass-whooping. i have 150 ish i.q., masters degree, better read than most i've met, but i am humbled by what i continue to learn in the rooms of a.a. we all arrive the same- effed up and then become individuals- widely varying 2 b sure.
@barrylyoung Why do 12-step supporters, no matter how bright they profess themselves to be, invariably offer up the falsely-limited options of either drinking the Kool-ade, or drinking more alcohol? People who can't drink responsibly don't need to drink at all. What is so tough about that? Mike
Two weeks from today 100,000 sober members of A.A. are going to get together in San Antonio, Texas to celebrate 75 years of the only solution to alcoholism that works 100 % of the time when given a 100% try.
There is no use in attending the meetings if you have even a sliver of doubt about your ability to controll your drinking. Bill Wilson knew that and thought it was important enough to include in the Big Book.
A.A. is for people who react differently to alcohol. ( See NIH.COM)
@Cantrememberjack Given that even the most optimistic attendence estimates of previous conventions fall well short of this one, and that AA has experienced flat-lined or declining membership for the last 15 years, your 100k assertion is unlikely. Rhetoric and wishful thinking aside. AA is 100% ineffective in altering the natural outcomes of alcoholism. I have absolutely no doubt about my inability to drink responsibly, so I don't drink at all. 100% effective for all who give 100% effort. Mike
@blamethenile I have really tried to stop fighting everything and everyone. Not everyone in AA is trustworthy, but I have found that when I show up with the attitude of trying to see what I can contribute rather than what is wrong I come away with a renewed feeling of hopefulness. That beats the cynical negative isolated person who first walked in the door in 1985. In short; I am eternally grateful for AA.
@Cantrememberjack Bringing it to an AA-critical channel doesn't really exemplify not fighting everything and everyone. Of all the people you know in AA, how many of them would really have your back if you were no longer a member of their club? Mike
AA is full of problem people, former drunks still acting on their old behaviours even though they aren't drinking. Most guys I have seen criticising AA are the ones who did a complete about face once the they were asked to do a 4th step. All of a sudden, instead of owning up or admitting past wrongs and resolving them, they put all their energies into attacking and discrediting AA.
AA itself needs to do an honest fourth step. We are trying to do our part to help it along. I noticed you didn't question the facts presented in the vid, but rather those who presented them. We get a lot of that. Mike
stocky - i've written out 3 lengthy 4th steps (one in excess of 80 pages) & gotten nothing - if anything - a feeling of emptiness at best out of the experiences.
my personal experience, having done the steps & left AA.
mike is right - argue the points with counter facts & figures or shut up. your personal experience (& inferences made) are irrelevant. you come to the table w/the same old bulls**t & you get stomped.
"I've written out 3 lengthy 4th steps (one in excess of 80 pages) & gotten nothing - if anything - a feeling of emptiness at best out of the experiences."
Same here...
I "searchingly and fearlessly" wrote EVERYTHING (fears, resentments, harms, shame, etc) down twice and it was like writing out and reciting (5th) a shopping list both times. It was nothing that I had not already admitted in meetings and counselling many times already.
hammer - at one meeting i 'shared' about how ephemeral steps 5,6, & 7 seemed. i chuckled & offhandedly let loose with something like, "they're a long-winded way of saying, 'ready, set, go!"
dead silence. a few guys after the meeting try to impart the seriousness of 'being entirely ready' but it was just so much sophistry.
hammo - you want the honest truth? i really wish it weren't so.
scratch a cynic ... right?
said it before & i'll say it again: people helping people do together what felt impossible alone is humanity at its finest. sadly, that is not what is truly at AA's core.
if it were, there wouldn't be a need for 12 anythings.
people should understand that AA has no failure rate. It has no success rate. It is anonymous, with no membership list. Sobriety dates are not verified. There is no sobriety test. It is NOT treatment. Sobriety is taken as a given. Quitting drinking is a considered a personal problem.
We do not actually know how many do it on their own - that is, without participation in a group. We also do not know how many learn to moderate. How can we know that? We can't.
AA has very little to do with drinking. There is an assumption in AA that you have quit before you get to AA. AA is silent on how to quit. What do I do instead of drink? That is question that is never answered. Go to a meetting is NOT an answer.
Absolutely! I am, ultimately, the one who chooses to drink or not to drink. That's why when people come out with these statistics, it's like they're blaming AA for not keeping people sober. If you're gonna drink, you're gonna drink, AA or no AA. Just because you go to meetings doesn't mean you're doing the other things AA suggests, and that's one of the reasons why people fail.
I know that AA gave me friends, spirituality, and a frame of mind that I probably wouldn't have gotten on my own in the short amount of time I have. And even if the statistics are terrible, what about the statistics of people who've tried it all by their selves, or some joined some crazy strict religion. AA has worked for me, some members of my family, and my friends. So, even if it is only some, it's still totally worth keeping around!! :)
well, there is that "rarely have we seen a person fail" clause in the BB - clearly implying that the program as described by & large is a success.
the statistics referred to simply put the lie to AA's implication of infallibility. you think it works for you. wonderful. repeated statistical data would suggest that it doesn't work for most. worse, AA squarely puts the blame for 'failure' on that majority's shoulders.
btw, the stats for self-sobriety are identical to AA's 'success' rate - 5%.
The truth: Mike is responsible for Mike's situation. You need things real simple don't you Mike? Any wiggle room and you'll blame somebody else. I'm here to help. Mama Faye
W@ell Mike, I think you are letting your ego run away a bit here, it is such a stretch to say that this video has a point. That has been my issue with your videos since the first I've seen, far fetched and pointless. I think that is why Bill W. would be embarrased for you. Mama faye
Undoubtedly both of us Mike. remember the Dr Seuss story? Am I to believe that you "created" these videos criticizing the program that, arguably, saved your selfish life, and you don't desire controversy? You need me Mike, if only as a mirror to reflect your "superior" intellect. I know you so well Mike, we are the same. Couldn't scrape together enough honest self esteem between us to talk down to an earthworm. Listen carefully Mike: IT'S NOT THEM!! YOU are your problem!!...(continued)
YOU asked for advice MIKE. Then YOU decided to take it! A grown man. Above average intelligence! Walked into AA and asked a recovering alcoholic advice, and TOOK IT! Now ya wanna go back to the source and blame. But you are only going partway MIKEY! The source of your problem is YOU! Expose the truth about yourself if you want to make the world a better place. You can do it Mike, just have more work to do. I used to do the SAME thing! I craved advice! Why? Let me avoid taking....(continued)
I'm excited to know that 5 people every year aren't out ruining their families lives, living in a prison built by their addiction to alcohol, and not driving while intoxicated. Your glass is half empty my friend. Yes the numbers could be better, but what a great gift to have 5 people every year and this doesn't even take into account the many 100,000s who while they don't make it the full year do stay clean for several days intermittently at best. MIRACLES - all of them.
Hi mem, sounds like you still follow the dogma of AA by maintaining abstinence, I have met ex AA members who have the occasional drink, who seem to be content and I think good luck to them. The other ironic thing about this thread it is just as dogmatic and bitter and twisted as your average AA meeting. One of my original friends in the programme who went from serious street drunk at 24 is not an alcoholic after all but is bipolar and drinks happily. and would agree with your comments.
I joined AA 24 years ago and have stayed sober. The figures are far worse than shown here. I am 1 in 500.
It is true what everyone sais here, much of the meeting is shallow and superficial. It took me few years before I met some real people. Since I stopped I haven't driven drunk regularly, spat at people, fought, walked around at parties with my dick hanging out, date raped, basis, humiliated myself deeply on a regular basis, written letters of apologies the day after., been arrested
I only realised after some time that only a few will make it. I decided when I joined AA I didn't care what I did I would do anything to stop this apalling existence.
This video shows what happens to those who join but what happens to the others? Take the list of ex AA members here, of those a third will be dead within 5 years and half of those will die violent deaths. In research taken over 40 years Ex AA members end up on prescribed medication in a mildly vegetative state.
There are only two real promises in AA, if you really want you to you need never drink again and the second is thatwomen will phone you up and ask you to have sex with them
I joined AA/NA 10 years ago, I left one year later, and guess what??? I am still not drinking or doing any kind of drugs or even perscription medication. Guess what, I am happy joyous and free with out the depressing dogma of AA...
95% leave because they have good reason to leave. Not because they are in denial'. The aaers , by their remarks here, provide much of the reason. I left because AA is nothing; empty words.
I found myself saying truly dumbshit things and believing it. Like, some of us have to die so we can live. He couldn't get honest, so he committed suicide. I was brainwashed at a young age. I experienced perverts and cons in the "rooms". A.A. is a sad joke.
i go to aa , i hate most of it,.,.i hate them calling my love of booze a disease,.but im so amazed at the smiling smugness and admiration for each other, i think they are mad,.pure insane,.,.god will have to get out of heanen if they aa fanatics arrive there,i do talk back to the chair if they talking crap about walking the dog or silly stuff,.regds mike
The thing that I have noticed with 12 steps is that they will tell that you arte stupid in the most loving tone of voice. I just bfeel like strangling my mom when she did that.(Not that I would ever really strangle my mom.)
Kind of like that "Southern" thing where they can say the most evil and vile things about a person and close it with "Bless her heart" and it's all ok.
You tell it brother! Been clean and sober for over 5 1/2 years and I was a die-hard, recruiting, 12 step big book thumping, work the steps or die kind of dude. Then when I came to my senses I realized that it's all bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit and people are dying because of it. Fuck AA.
One huge reason I believe aa can't retain people is because the program doesn't honestly identify contributing factors to addiction nor does it have an reality based solutions. If God was going to solve all our problems any of us could do that anywhere. Old-timers should be the ones w/ the sticky note on their mirror, "you are wrong" & take a good long look at how creepy they have become. Old-timers should take a good hard look at their lack of honesty. I am glad that to be out.
That's a good point, Humeypright. Funny how aa always thinks it has the right to hold God hostage and give him orders! And also limit him to a very unimpressive kind of miracle that only lasts a day. The god of aa is definitely a bargain basement variety and doesn't deserve a capital 'G' any more than aa merits capital 'A's.
Numbers don't lie, but apologists and revisionists like to twist them around. There was recently a long rebuttal of the 5% statistic, by a couple well-known authors, and guess what they said? The same thing we said in this vid. Mike
Just a glance at "these rooms" will reveal that as opposed to seats being filled by long time members it is the opposite. This deosn't make sense as far as AA propaganda would have you believe. I have pointed this out to 12 steppers in the past and they give almost the same responses that Sciencultology gives. Keep up the good work.
Hi, Jody, Alcoholic. I tried AA and it didn't work for me even though I did the program. Eventually I became sober embarassingly enough, through tony robbins, I'm not rich today but I'm sober. After 20 months in AA just to have a social life with non drinkers I have dropped out of program because I am disturbed by many of the abuses the old timers put upon the newcommers. I don't beleive my only choices are AA or drink. I can stay sober, as is best for me, and not go to AA.
jodywhiteley 6 months ago 2
@jodywhiteley Tony Robbins is a much better explanation for success than surrender upon the altar of powerlessness. Glad things are going well for you. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
Never voluntarily relinquish your free will to imaginary entities,or doorknobs or cups,as suggeted by naive AA members for any reason!
1ntencity 1 year ago 3
methinks thou doth protest too much. the program is there if you want it, otherwise go ahead and try to control ur drinking. we sincerely hope u prevail. if not... 'who cares to admit complete defeat?' not me. i got completely defeated- a total ass-whooping. i have 150 ish i.q., masters degree, better read than most i've met, but i am humbled by what i continue to learn in the rooms of a.a. we all arrive the same- effed up and then become individuals- widely varying 2 b sure.
barrylyoung 1 year ago
@barrylyoung Why do 12-step supporters, no matter how bright they profess themselves to be, invariably offer up the falsely-limited options of either drinking the Kool-ade, or drinking more alcohol? People who can't drink responsibly don't need to drink at all. What is so tough about that? Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
Two weeks from today 100,000 sober members of A.A. are going to get together in San Antonio, Texas to celebrate 75 years of the only solution to alcoholism that works 100 % of the time when given a 100% try.
There is no use in attending the meetings if you have even a sliver of doubt about your ability to controll your drinking. Bill Wilson knew that and thought it was important enough to include in the Big Book.
A.A. is for people who react differently to alcohol. ( See NIH.COM)
Cantrememberjack 1 year ago
@Cantrememberjack Given that even the most optimistic attendence estimates of previous conventions fall well short of this one, and that AA has experienced flat-lined or declining membership for the last 15 years, your 100k assertion is unlikely. Rhetoric and wishful thinking aside. AA is 100% ineffective in altering the natural outcomes of alcoholism. I have absolutely no doubt about my inability to drink responsibly, so I don't drink at all. 100% effective for all who give 100% effort. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 3
@blamethenile I have really tried to stop fighting everything and everyone. Not everyone in AA is trustworthy, but I have found that when I show up with the attitude of trying to see what I can contribute rather than what is wrong I come away with a renewed feeling of hopefulness. That beats the cynical negative isolated person who first walked in the door in 1985. In short; I am eternally grateful for AA.
Cantrememberjack 1 year ago
@Cantrememberjack Bringing it to an AA-critical channel doesn't really exemplify not fighting everything and everyone. Of all the people you know in AA, how many of them would really have your back if you were no longer a member of their club? Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 2
stockybob, drivel. Get a new joke book.
dix345 2 years ago 2
AA is full of problem people, former drunks still acting on their old behaviours even though they aren't drinking. Most guys I have seen criticising AA are the ones who did a complete about face once the they were asked to do a 4th step. All of a sudden, instead of owning up or admitting past wrongs and resolving them, they put all their energies into attacking and discrediting AA.
stockybob 2 years ago
AA itself needs to do an honest fourth step. We are trying to do our part to help it along. I noticed you didn't question the facts presented in the vid, but rather those who presented them. We get a lot of that. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
stocky - i've written out 3 lengthy 4th steps (one in excess of 80 pages) & gotten nothing - if anything - a feeling of emptiness at best out of the experiences.
my personal experience, having done the steps & left AA.
mike is right - argue the points with counter facts & figures or shut up. your personal experience (& inferences made) are irrelevant. you come to the table w/the same old bulls**t & you get stomped.
it doesn't take much energy to discredit AA.
notspeedy0314 2 years ago 2
"I've written out 3 lengthy 4th steps (one in excess of 80 pages) & gotten nothing - if anything - a feeling of emptiness at best out of the experiences."
Same here...
I "searchingly and fearlessly" wrote EVERYTHING (fears, resentments, harms, shame, etc) down twice and it was like writing out and reciting (5th) a shopping list both times. It was nothing that I had not already admitted in meetings and counselling many times already.
And the 6th and 7th step charade?
Don't get me started...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago 2
hammer - at one meeting i 'shared' about how ephemeral steps 5,6, & 7 seemed. i chuckled & offhandedly let loose with something like, "they're a long-winded way of saying, 'ready, set, go!"
dead silence. a few guys after the meeting try to impart the seriousness of 'being entirely ready' but it was just so much sophistry.
sound & fury signifying nothing.
notspeedy0314 2 years ago
And there in lies the faith-based, CBT, blunt force trauma of AA "methodology" (if you could call it that).
They seen to think that there is something magical and mystical in the precise wording of the steps - or, of course, in the divine HP.
How did YOU put it?
"you could build a theology out of a recipe for pancakes & in a few years you'd have at least a few dozen 'believers'."
Well said...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
hammo - you want the honest truth? i really wish it weren't so.
scratch a cynic ... right?
said it before & i'll say it again: people helping people do together what felt impossible alone is humanity at its finest. sadly, that is not what is truly at AA's core.
if it were, there wouldn't be a need for 12 anythings.
notspeedy0314 2 years ago 2
people should understand that AA has no failure rate. It has no success rate. It is anonymous, with no membership list. Sobriety dates are not verified. There is no sobriety test. It is NOT treatment. Sobriety is taken as a given. Quitting drinking is a considered a personal problem.
dix345 2 years ago
We do not actually know how many do it on their own - that is, without participation in a group. We also do not know how many learn to moderate. How can we know that? We can't.
dix345 3 years ago
5% of people quit on their own anyway.
They quit go to AA and AA takes the credit.
So their success rate could very well be below 5%.
billlll69 3 years ago
AA has very little to do with drinking. There is an assumption in AA that you have quit before you get to AA. AA is silent on how to quit. What do I do instead of drink? That is question that is never answered. Go to a meetting is NOT an answer.
dix345 3 years ago
@dix345 really so glad that at last someone says AA IS SILENT ABOUT QUITTING,.
suirvale 4 months ago
AA got me sober, and I'm really grateful for it. At least it works for some people!
ErinMo2323 3 years ago
the operative word there being "some". certainly not most.
and is it AA that's sober or is it you? no doubt, positive group reinforcement can work wonders. but ultimately it's you who choses not to drink.
unless you believe it's the hand of god that intervenes. and if that's the case, isn't it really god who got & keeps you sober?
notspeedy0314 3 years ago
Absolutely! I am, ultimately, the one who chooses to drink or not to drink. That's why when people come out with these statistics, it's like they're blaming AA for not keeping people sober. If you're gonna drink, you're gonna drink, AA or no AA. Just because you go to meetings doesn't mean you're doing the other things AA suggests, and that's one of the reasons why people fail.
ErinMo2323 3 years ago
I know that AA gave me friends, spirituality, and a frame of mind that I probably wouldn't have gotten on my own in the short amount of time I have. And even if the statistics are terrible, what about the statistics of people who've tried it all by their selves, or some joined some crazy strict religion. AA has worked for me, some members of my family, and my friends. So, even if it is only some, it's still totally worth keeping around!! :)
ErinMo2323 3 years ago
AA is some crazy religion, arguably strict. Nobody here is trying to get rid of it, but we are critical of its inconsistancies. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
well, there is that "rarely have we seen a person fail" clause in the BB - clearly implying that the program as described by & large is a success.
the statistics referred to simply put the lie to AA's implication of infallibility. you think it works for you. wonderful. repeated statistical data would suggest that it doesn't work for most. worse, AA squarely puts the blame for 'failure' on that majority's shoulders.
btw, the stats for self-sobriety are identical to AA's 'success' rate - 5%.
notspeedy0314 3 years ago
delete away, i shall remain in spirit. mama Faye
agecooper 3 years ago
As you wish. Happy trails. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
the usefulness of agecooper is at an end. Time to delete the username.
dix345 3 years ago
Are you going to bring anything of substance to the table, or are you just going to continue to try the veto by ridicule? Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Veto by ridicule, cute Mike. Nice try...I have not, ridiculed you, the truth can sting though. Mama Faye
agecooper 3 years ago
Lotsa blather, no content. What truth? Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
The truth: Mike is responsible for Mike's situation. You need things real simple don't you Mike? Any wiggle room and you'll blame somebody else. I'm here to help. Mama Faye
agecooper 3 years ago
AA has a 5% annual retention rate, just like it says in the video. True, or false? That isn't about me. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Last taunt, btw. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
W@ell Mike, I think you are letting your ego run away a bit here, it is such a stretch to say that this video has a point. That has been my issue with your videos since the first I've seen, far fetched and pointless. I think that is why Bill W. would be embarrased for you. Mama faye
agecooper 3 years ago
You feel a need to keep posting on a board clearly not suited for your interests and pov. Who is being egotistical? Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Undoubtedly both of us Mike. remember the Dr Seuss story? Am I to believe that you "created" these videos criticizing the program that, arguably, saved your selfish life, and you don't desire controversy? You need me Mike, if only as a mirror to reflect your "superior" intellect. I know you so well Mike, we are the same. Couldn't scrape together enough honest self esteem between us to talk down to an earthworm. Listen carefully Mike: IT'S NOT THEM!! YOU are your problem!!...(continued)
agecooper 3 years ago
YOU asked for advice MIKE. Then YOU decided to take it! A grown man. Above average intelligence! Walked into AA and asked a recovering alcoholic advice, and TOOK IT! Now ya wanna go back to the source and blame. But you are only going partway MIKEY! The source of your problem is YOU! Expose the truth about yourself if you want to make the world a better place. You can do it Mike, just have more work to do. I used to do the SAME thing! I craved advice! Why? Let me avoid taking....(continued)
agecooper 3 years ago
@agecooper These vidieos have saved my life and your comments remind me of the cruel women I met in AA.
baybase 1 year ago
5% is NOT good enough. And, belay the sanctimony of 'glass is half full'. You are in no position to judge. It is you who kick 95% to the curb.
dix345 3 years ago
I'm excited to know that 5 people every year aren't out ruining their families lives, living in a prison built by their addiction to alcohol, and not driving while intoxicated. Your glass is half empty my friend. Yes the numbers could be better, but what a great gift to have 5 people every year and this doesn't even take into account the many 100,000s who while they don't make it the full year do stay clean for several days intermittently at best. MIRACLES - all of them.
autographpros 3 years ago
Nope, my glass is 100% full. Re-watch the vid. You seem to have missed the point. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
people make their own decisions about what they are going to do. If a person is able to drink safely, it is a private matter.
I have no interest in labeing anyone.
dix345 3 years ago
Hi mem, sounds like you still follow the dogma of AA by maintaining abstinence, I have met ex AA members who have the occasional drink, who seem to be content and I think good luck to them. The other ironic thing about this thread it is just as dogmatic and bitter and twisted as your average AA meeting. One of my original friends in the programme who went from serious street drunk at 24 is not an alcoholic after all but is bipolar and drinks happily. and would agree with your comments.
liberteeen 3 years ago
I joined AA 24 years ago and have stayed sober. The figures are far worse than shown here. I am 1 in 500.
It is true what everyone sais here, much of the meeting is shallow and superficial. It took me few years before I met some real people. Since I stopped I haven't driven drunk regularly, spat at people, fought, walked around at parties with my dick hanging out, date raped, basis, humiliated myself deeply on a regular basis, written letters of apologies the day after., been arrested
liberteeen 3 years ago
I only realised after some time that only a few will make it. I decided when I joined AA I didn't care what I did I would do anything to stop this apalling existence.
liberteeen 3 years ago
This video shows what happens to those who join but what happens to the others? Take the list of ex AA members here, of those a third will be dead within 5 years and half of those will die violent deaths. In research taken over 40 years Ex AA members end up on prescribed medication in a mildly vegetative state.
There are only two real promises in AA, if you really want you to you need never drink again and the second is thatwomen will phone you up and ask you to have sex with them
liberteeen 3 years ago
I joined AA/NA 10 years ago, I left one year later, and guess what??? I am still not drinking or doing any kind of drugs or even perscription medication. Guess what, I am happy joyous and free with out the depressing dogma of AA...
memortician 3 years ago
Hey, Steve, Long time no see. Thanks for checking in. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
95% leave because they have good reason to leave. Not because they are in denial'. The aaers , by their remarks here, provide much of the reason. I left because AA is nothing; empty words.
AA is all hat; no cattle.
dix345 3 years ago
That is about as clear, succinct, and accurate as it gets. Thanks, Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
I found myself saying truly dumbshit things and believing it. Like, some of us have to die so we can live. He couldn't get honest, so he committed suicide. I was brainwashed at a young age. I experienced perverts and cons in the "rooms". A.A. is a sad joke.
Alienbaybee 3 years ago
Your post sounds eerily like our "Post Suicide Comments" video. Check it out. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
You can lead a horse to water.... and that's all.
stockybob 3 years ago
It's Kool-ade, not water,and people who can by and large tell the difference, not dumb animals. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
AA does not really do very much of anything. It is, basically, a talking shop.
That is what is so funny about the zealots posting here. They do not get it.
dix345 3 years ago
i go to aa , i hate most of it,.,.i hate them calling my love of booze a disease,.but im so amazed at the smiling smugness and admiration for each other, i think they are mad,.pure insane,.,.god will have to get out of heanen if they aa fanatics arrive there,i do talk back to the chair if they talking crap about walking the dog or silly stuff,.regds mike
suirvale 3 years ago
The thing that I have noticed with 12 steps is that they will tell that you arte stupid in the most loving tone of voice. I just bfeel like strangling my mom when she did that.(Not that I would ever really strangle my mom.)
ebrp68 3 years ago
Kind of like that "Southern" thing where they can say the most evil and vile things about a person and close it with "Bless her heart" and it's all ok.
:)
isegoria1 3 years ago
i went to na for the tats
OldTymeDem 3 years ago
You tell it brother! Been clean and sober for over 5 1/2 years and I was a die-hard, recruiting, 12 step big book thumping, work the steps or die kind of dude. Then when I came to my senses I realized that it's all bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit and people are dying because of it. Fuck AA.
johnsanuy 3 years ago
Congrats on your successes, and thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
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andreasheinz 3 years ago
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andreasheinz 3 years ago
One huge reason I believe aa can't retain people is because the program doesn't honestly identify contributing factors to addiction nor does it have an reality based solutions. If God was going to solve all our problems any of us could do that anywhere. Old-timers should be the ones w/ the sticky note on their mirror, "you are wrong" & take a good long look at how creepy they have become. Old-timers should take a good hard look at their lack of honesty. I am glad that to be out.
humyepright 3 years ago 2
That's a good point, Humeypright. Funny how aa always thinks it has the right to hold God hostage and give him orders! And also limit him to a very unimpressive kind of miracle that only lasts a day. The god of aa is definitely a bargain basement variety and doesn't deserve a capital 'G' any more than aa merits capital 'A's.
tobytwirrll 3 years ago
I could not possibly agree with you more. These days I tell people that God has as much to do with getting clean as pizza.
Your sticky note would be a funny prank :)
isegoria1 3 years ago
The interesting part is that this is all in their text and it still does not stop members from cherry picking.
isegoria1 3 years ago
Numbers don't lie, but apologists and revisionists like to twist them around. There was recently a long rebuttal of the 5% statistic, by a couple well-known authors, and guess what they said? The same thing we said in this vid. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Now I'm wondering how many people make it to one year, receive their one year coin - and then fall apart. I've seen that happen
crzyhssn 3 years ago
Yes, as have I. I don't know how many who reach one year leave soon thereafter, but half of them leave before picking up their 5-year coin. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Just a glance at "these rooms" will reveal that as opposed to seats being filled by long time members it is the opposite. This deosn't make sense as far as AA propaganda would have you believe. I have pointed this out to 12 steppers in the past and they give almost the same responses that Sciencultology gives. Keep up the good work.
moronymous 3 years ago
Thanks for the post, and the praise. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago