Bible vs. The Book of Mormon, LDS Scholars comments

[freestanding1000]

The criteria of truthtelling applies to both of you as well. I read an article from Mr Peterson yesterday, "Reflections on Secular Anti-Mormonism." At first it seemed like I was reading an article by Richard Dawkins about Creationists. It was filled with insults, sarcasm, name calling, and even typos. Dawkins avoids hard evidence and stirs the masses with schoolyard level ranting. Peterson mirrored this style. His words in this video echo this.

Just show the evidence for the BOM please.

[kittykat2678]

what movie are they talking about?



[scottwins2]

"I am a lover of the cause of Christ and of virtue, chastity, and an upright, steady course of conduct and a holy walk. I despise a hypocrite or a covenant breaker. I judge them not; God shall judge them according to their works. I am a lover even of mine enemies, for an enemy seeketh to destroy openly. I can pray for those who despitefully use and persecute me, but for all I cannot hope." Joseph Smith Jr.

[AWHNNOH]

Pearl Trees Of Life [a vast Biblical resource tool]

[3w dot] pearltrees [dot com] [forwardslash] awhn

[wannawatchu66]

Well, LDS still asserts that Jesus is Lucifer's spirit brother, and that God the Father has a tangible body (among a host of other perversions), so Tvedtnes can chortle and guffaw all he wants, as long as LDS misdefines Who the Father and Jesus are, Mormons ain't goin' where they think they are, no matter *how* true they say the Book of Mormon is.

[MrKGatl]

crazy vs crazier

[Isterdrivenkaosmask]

Hmm..these three LDS guys truly does not even respond to the critisism.. Simply denying that the opponents have said anything worth refuting, is not in itself a way to refute the opponents claims. This was not very impressive indeed. Perhaps they could have given an example of these great misrepresentations of the book of mormon, and not just assert their existance.

[fairldsorg]

@Isterdrivenkaosmask I get that quite a bit, actually. Perhaps I need to add something in the video which states that this is only a small section of a full-length video, and is *only* their thoughts on the critical video. The full video goes into a little deeper depth as to the problems with the video, but in no way exhaustive. If you want something a bit more, there is a review by Brant Gardner and David Bokovoy on the subject.

[fairldsorg]

@Isterdrivenkaosmask Just google their name and the name of the critical video to find it. In the meantime, I've got a playlist on my channel. Just make sure it is the full-length version. You can tell because the name is preceded by pt.1, pt. 2, pt. 3, etc....

[Steedlaw]

Can I just say that Daniel C. Peterson is a stud. 

[jwnaugle]

@wachnathan Theres actually some pretty solid evidence for the book of mormon man

[fairldsorg]

@nicholighkun This is only one part of a 14? part series on the vide, and as stated above, is only the scholars *opinions* of the video. If you would like to see more substance, I have a playlist of the videos on my account. More detailed rebuttals can be found on our website by Brant Gardner and David Bokovoy

[1azuredee]

Those two books are Mormon literature, published by members of the Mormon church. Why would I believe what they say? Where are the cities that are named in the Book of Mormon? Where are the artifacts from these supposed battles? There is NO evidence that they even existed in secular society. Jews in the Middle East can show proof of claims made in the Bible, even the New Testament, which they do not believe to be true. Galatians 1:8.

[fairldsorg]

@1azuredee As I said before, the only people really interested in it, are the ones who try to prove it false, or members of the Church. The publications I showed you, as mentioned, rely heavily on Mesoamerican scholarship and show the similarities between the BOM and Mesoamerica. Most scholars have knowledge of either one or the other, but very few have knowledge of both. If you want to find the evidence, see the facts they present.

[fairldsorg]

@1azuredee Also, we are only beginning to learn to translate place names in Mesoamerica during the pre-Classic era. Why don't we have very many names that coincide with the BOM in Mesoamerica? Because we don't know what those names are. Most are given Spanish names because the original names are not known. I have some videos on a playlist on my site under Mesoamerica and The Book of Mormon that you may be interested in

[1azuredee]

Ok, if the people who put out the video "Bible vs. the Book of Mormon" don't have all the facts on the history behind the Book of Mormon, where can I find historical data (outside of LDS literature) and artifacts about the ancient civilizations that supposedly existed in the "new world"?

[fairldsorg]

@1azuredee Since The Book of Mormon is a religious document, the only ones interested in its history are LDS, or critics. Brant Gardner, who is in this video, as well as John Sorenson, have done some amazing work in this area. I would recommend "An Ancient American Setting for The Book of Mormon", and Gardners "Second Witness:Analytical and Contextual Commentary on the Book of Mormon". They both rely heavily on Mesoamerican culture and scholarship.

[MrBigbear6718]

what cannot rely on this video? man you can find cities in the bible and in the book of mormon well I have not seen a city yet. man quit the lies

[gatoron2595]

book of mormon = no physycal evidence , , , , why is this true.

It was by no doubt writen by a man , , , not at all of God.

Stop the lies ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[fairldsorg]

@hekaersa This is not a rebuttal, but as the title suggests, is LDS scholars *comments* on the video. If you'd like a brief video rebuttal, please see the 14 part series on Bible vs The Book of Mormon. You can find this playlist on my channel.

[omiolo]

@JohnECocaine funny how YOU do NOT address specifics but generalizations!

[omiolo]

The revised Duty to God program, said Brother Cutler, "is an exciting program that's really going to strengthen testimonies." He echoed Bishop Barlow's belief that the boys must claim ownership of the program as they discover their personal duty to God through gospel study, action and testimony. It's essential, he added, that quorum leaders such as Joseph set the example for the other boys to follow.

[omiolo]

Fifteen-year-old Francisco Olivo of West Jordan, Utah, agrees with Joseph, adding "it helps me get ready for my mission."

[omiolo]

@Shulamitefire "millions of dollars spent by the LDS church attempting to establish archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon"

that is an ANTImormon LIE. But I guess that is why you repeat it!

[crxracer805]

dude, anyone who fights against the Church of Jesus Christ will regret it in the next life. So I would suggest you STOP or you're all going to have a big wake up call in the next life. He is not doing it out of love either, you Christians are blinded by the craftiness and philosophies of men

[charlietuaau61]

@kind4saf sorry bro that wasn't to you lol but read it anyways

[charlietuaau61]

@kind4saf They're experts huh so you believe there word instead of God's right.....Read Ezekial 37: 15-17 you'll see the truth

[omiolo]

Throughout its career, the BYU Ballroom Dance Company has been awarded 27 national championships and was the first American company to win the British Formation Championships, which, incidentally, it has won 10 times.

The company has also performed in Africa, Europe and Asia.

[omiolo]

"It all started with a vision," said Benjamin de Hoyos in a statement. "I wanted to get a great group together, and I think it came together nicely. It just grew and grew from there."

Today, the organization, which has been directed by Lee and Linda Wakefield since 1980, has 82 couples, which, according to a press release, solidifies it as the "largest collegiate ballroom program in the world."

[omiolo]

@deanthjumpinbean

what points did you disagree with from these scholars?

[omiolo]

@steadysnot

There is proof that the Bible is true?

You have been duped!

[deadfigbar]

Just sying this to who belieeve that the Book of Mormon is false....Well just read it, read it diligently and pray to see if it is true and if you truly mean those prayers and you really read the Book of Mormon you will then know that the Book of Mormonis Another "bible" so to speak.

[Shulamitefire]

@deadfigbar The Holy Ghost never witnesses that falsehood is truth. The test you are wont to apply is the same test that for instance a Muslim may ask of you as pertains to the Koran. He would tell you that the Spirit of God shall witness that the Koran is truth if you pray with sincere intent to believe whether the Koran is true. Does that make the Koran truth? The Bible is that Book by which all other writings are to be judged. The Bible came to man before the BoM, D&C & PoGP.

[WitnessFitnessX]

Okay so what point and proof do these guys bring to the table?

[61MAF]

hmmm....no,its not the everlasting truth (bom). i dont like lds claiming to represent the true God of the Bible when it represents a different testament.God does not lie like man does. Holy Bible can be used historically, and archeaological fact. mormons claim their truth based on feelings and factual truth that dont even hold up to the Bible itself. the Bible is the true cornerstone, foundation and relationship with God. God's mercies on your soul!

[TheHardy71]

i would like to know that if there is absolutely nothing to the book or mormon, why is it so hotly debated and so much time wasted on the debates. Why do people feel the need to try and debunk something that is inherently untrue. My answer to that is because that is the real honest and everlasting truth.

[breezwonder]

Mormons claim to be Christians yet these guys are down rating the Bible to defend a Fantasy Book written by Joseph Smith.

[deadfigbar]

That is very false. The Bible is just as equal in the Mormon faith as the Book of Mormon. I can probably bet that ou haven't even read the Book of Mormon. Just read it.

[MrZetterlund777]

1:25 They never implied that the Bible's archeology isn't controversial, which it isn't because we know the names of the cities we dug up. But there's nothing controversial to the BOM because there is litteraly NOTHING. Also, I hate it when they try and drag down the Bible to justify their inconsistancies. They call themselves true scholars yet they don't even have maps in their book.

[MrZetterlund777]

0:23 He's already wrong. The video simply said we have evidence through archeology for the Bible, unlike the BOM which we have nothing to even dispute. It never said it was perfectly established by archeology. 0:42 it doesn't matter what scholarly information it left out, the BOM and Joseph Smith says Lameniteses are the principle ancestors of ative Americans. Yet Native Americans have never heard of Jaredites, Lamenites, or Nephites. I hear his voice drop in 1:03 -he's lying.

[cwood4ever]

Yeah whats your point it makes perfect sense.

Ever think of people like Hitler, Stalin etc. Some people are better off dead.

[Bidimus1]

Some peoples ACTIONS require society to deal with them in appropriate ways.

The POINT was that you claimed that chainsticks had made a false statement of lds believing that some sins Christ can not forgive, I was simply pointing out that the lds "prophet" had said exactly that there are sins that the Blood of Christ can not wash away.

[cwood4ever]

He did make a lot of false accusations. The LDS church is true Brigham Young was a true prophet. I'm gonna become a God and you're a bitch. BYE BYE

[bangkoksuzy]

Have any of the mormon haters ever read the Book of Mormon? Answer is NO. They would rather burn it. Others in history burnt book, like the Nazies. It's one thing to disagree or refute what a book says, it's another to blindly condemn it like the nazies.

[juanchisgomez]

Let's worship the Sun!!!

[Doliath]

So, instead of attempting to refute the claims of the video "Bible vs. Book of Mormon", the people in this video do nothing but complain about how unfairly the BoM was portrayed. For me, that is very telling.

[fairldsorg]

Perhaps you should watch the entire video and not just this chapter. The entire video is a supplement to reviews already written by Brant Gardner and David Bokovoy. You can find them at fairlds (dot) org and farms (dot) byu (dot) edu.

[Doliath]

Alright, I will. Thank you.

[courag1]

Considering that you can trace with genetics back to a supposed "Eve" in Africa, you can also find out that American Indians are closely related to Siberian Asians. So they are racially oriental.

They are not related to Semetic people whatsoever.

There was no metalurgy in the new world. So show us the sword, the coins. There is none.

There are no cities here which correspond.

You people are just propagandists. That's it.

[cwood4ever]

You have just stated two falsehoods.

[chainsticks88]

Yeah bullshit, everything that I said are facts deal with it

[csqw]

They do have biased opinions, but are you trying to say scholars trying to disprove the book of mormon unbiased?

[DanWright1966]

I am saying that anyone who loves the Truth --WHEREVER IT LEADS--- will conclude that the book of Mormon is as false as the Quran, the New World Translation of the Bible by the Watchtower Society, and Star Trek fan fiction.

In fact, this is what Joseph Smith made:

Religious fan fiction.

We can settle the whole matter of Mormonism simply by excavating the hill Cremora,

I mean...Cumorah.

The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Simple as that.

[csqw]

You didn't answer my question. Are people who devote their lives to studying the Book of Mormon (who aren't LDS) completely unbiased?

I can't tell you what to believe, but I can tell you what I know. I know this church is true. I've studied church doctrine, anti-church material, atheist beliefs, other religious beliefs, and I've prayed to my Heavenly Father for knowledge. You can try and dissuade me with phrases like "religious fan fiction", but I can't deny the Truth that God has given me.

[DanWright1966]

Okay, wait a minute. Your comments make this serious.

Knowing Jesus Christ -- the Jesus Christ of the Bible -- is what saves. Not a church. Churches don't dispense salvation.

God has only given two Truths. PERIOD.

His Word -- The 66 books of the Bible,

and

His Spirit. -- The Holy Spirit.

Anything that claims to be from God that contradicts either is actually a lie from the pit of hell, no matter how warm and fuzzy it makes someone feel.

LDS church is a lie.

[csqw]

You still did not answer my question, but I will move on...

I know the "Bible Jesus Christ" and the "Book of Mormon Jesus Christ" and they are the same. Christ gives me my salvation, not the curch.

To me, and I'm not trying to be cynical cause I respect your beliefs, but it only makes sense that Jesus Christ ALSO visited his people in the Americas and proclaimed his Truths to them as well. It is not a lie. If we can't trust our hearts or God's answer to our prayers...who can we trust?

[Precocious030]

wait a minute .. the white haired fella starting 2:10 at says that were using arguments from pop culture against the book of mormon. not exactly .. and that their passing acquaintances were not providing relevant scholarship from the past 50 years. huh? they were mormons who wanted to know more about the book and where it came from .. so they became archeologists, and FOUND NOTHING!! now they are not mormons.

[Precocious030]

assumptions of the new world!?!?! what? we have documented history of the new world. cave paintings and written words. nothing in the book of mormon lines up with what we have, and there is no evidence to support the new world in the book of mormon.

and one more thing .. i didn't hear any real refutations with any evidence that the scholars were wrong.. hmm.. more of the same.

[Precocious030]

horse were here in 400 AD .. ya .. and i'm perfect. the Spanish brought horses more than a thousand years later. too bad Joesph smith didn't know that.

[TrueChurchLDS]

during OT -- Book of Ether - Jaredites circa 2500BC - 600 BC

during NT -- 3 Nephi written before and after Christ

after NT -- Mormon & Moroni wrote up until 385AD.

[funnydawg12]

mormonism is paganism at its best. The temple rituals, especially the endowment ceremony, are extremely occultic. I am a christian, and my God would never want me to take an oath consenting to having my throat slit from ear to ear, and my tongu torn out by the roots. Only satan would do that. Lucifer even says in the endowment drama that the apron he is wearing is a symbol of his priesthoods. That tells me that the mormon priesthood is luciferian.

[funnydawg12]

When a person stands at the veil, in the veil ceremony in the endowment, and says "power in the priesthood be upon me, and upon my posterity, through all generations of time, and throughout all eternity," they are speaking a curse not only on themselves, but also on their family, and their future generations. Not to mention, that the endowment is largely a masonic ritual.

[TrueChurchLDS]

1 Nephi. 9: 16

16 And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.

True video

[IronDawg69]

dead sea scrolls what are they why don't they translate them

[Ilegalplayer]

livy111us Explain to every one here how this is the FULLNESS of Jesus Christ GOSPEL that we must learn it??

"..the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (2 Nephi 5:21)."And the skins of the Lamanites were DARK..which WAS A CURSE upon them..(Book of Mormon, Alma 3:6)

"..A BLACKNESS came upon all the children of Canaan..(Moses 7:8).""...for the seed of Cain were BLACK...(Moses 7:22)."being of the lineage by which he could not have the right of PRIESTHOOD,(Abraham 1:26-27)"

[trinsit]

Wow, this pretty much didn't prove anything. It appears to be a 5 minute rant on calling the archeologist and historians from misinformed liars. Mr. Gardner said he didn't see any archeologist of the new world when all the archeologist were archeologists from the regions they represented in the video. It would just be stupid to interview a European archeologist about the Americas. Out of all that no evidence was mentioned. All they did was talk about their credits and try to discredit the others

[Gideon6640]

Ok why are LDS folks and "scholars" even talking about this? I mean they have a living prophet,seer & revelator. And as such with the extensive "blessings from the Mormon god" you would think the issue would be over with...hmmmmm yeah just another LDS smokescreen. "Anti-Mormon" yeah ok like the Bibel BofM,D&C, Pearl of Great price" not to mention the Journal of Discourses by Bigamy Young...and all the other "great men of the LDS church" as well as History of the Church" How ironic.

[thecooksinwa]

A coworker/friend who is lds said that I could not go into the mormon temple, because I'm not mormon. I said so what you're saying is that the blood of Jesus is not good enough? He said, "That's what I'm saying." What's more sacred the blood of Jesus? or the temple? When you get to speak to people on your faith do you want them most of all to know Jesus? or to join the mormon temple? If you were to die today can you say I will go to heaven because what Jesus did for me, and He said so,or not?

[secretbandmember2]

I would of smacked your mormon coworkers teeth out

[thecooksinwa]

Truth in Love, right.

[Beauchamp70]

i believe that coworker is right. u cant go in unless ur faithfull. and u have to be able to be clean when u go in. do u do any drugs at all? if so the only way to go in there(if u were mormon right know for a lil bit) is if u repent. and there is steps for that. most churchs think well u can just say oh im srry god and go and do it again. repentance is to not do what ever u done again.

[thecooksinwa]

the reason the m. coworker said i can't go in is because i'm not mormon. you know this. Jesus tore the veil of the temple,so that all could enter the Holy of Holys thru Him,the lds have sewed it back together, and said it's thru us. Salvation is by grace alone Romans 11:6,but our gratefulness for salvation produces good works. a live tree produces fruit, the fruit doesnt make the tree alive, it's just evidence of life. Repentance is to change your mind, and turn.

[ironflea]

THis commentary sucks balls. They just poke at the documentary like it's so badly put together. These commentators (dhhhhuuurrr) don't specify exactly how it "lacking in evidence", like which parts in the video are insufficient for evidence.

I smell ignorant lazy rats in this video.

[thecooksinwa]

the "bible vs. the book of mormon" video is very good and insightful, this commentary is not. I think mormon people are nice, it's just their book is fiction. If the book draws you a;way from a relationship with Jesus, then it is not of God.

[Beauchamp70]

it doesnt draw u away first of all. and read it. i garenty u that what ur priest has said is false. and the book isnt fiction when joseph smith took the plates to a translator and he told him that they were over 1800 years old

[thecooksinwa]

Well if lds is not drawing you away from Jesus the Lord of Lords yet that's great. I would just caution you to be self aware, you don't know me or have anything to prove to me. In the b. vs. the b.o.m. video it talks about the gold plates. The bible says Jesus created all that was created do you believe it?

[Beauchamp70]

yes the lord did make everything. but if u do some research the ppl that made the bible were bishopes. not prophets. u no y?... i serisouly dont no lol y didnt they use the prophets.

[thecooksinwa]

ofcorse the bible is written by actual prophets, Jesus even says the Law and the Prophets. Also the apostles. the sign of a true prophet is their prophecy is 100% correct. joseph smith said the whole world would be involved w/ the american revolution, it didn't happen, just like the book of mormon. sorry.

[Beauchamp70]

no prophets wrote the books inside the bible. it was preists and bishops that put the books together. and i have never heard that statement before. im pretty sure u made that up. or someone else that u know made that up. and if he did its kinda true. the britsh saw this revolution and were sending troops to help the south. and they had all the other countries that they new help them

[thecooksinwa]

See, this is why the b.o.m could never be "another test. of Jesus Christ, instead of compliment the old and new test., it contradicts it, and is at odds with it.Mathew 7:12...for this sums up the Law and the Prophets., Luke 16:16, "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John...", and kinda true doesn't cut it. What the devil said was "kinda true" in Gen. ch. 3.

[Beauchamp70]

u probably didnt no that the book of mormon was writen between the new and old testiment. right?

of course not. cuz no one wants to actually c whent the books were writen. all they look for is how a guy that has a 3rd grade education can translate something that was writen in egiption and greek.

[thecooksinwa]

There were many books written during that time, and many that contradict the old/new test. just like the b.o.m.

The bible has everything you need to know about God, because it teaches you that all the fullness of God is in Christ. If you have Christ you have all, forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life now, everything. Why go any where else? It's foolishness, and satanic to go anywhere else. That's the Truth brother.

[Beauchamp70]

yeah the book of mormon was writen between the old and new testement. and the bom does not controdict the bible. and y would u babtize someone with a drop of water. c the lds church does full amersion. becuase joseph smith got the athority from john. and if ur going to repent of ur sins im pretty sure that u have to stop doing that sin. or try as hard as u can. where is the full Truth in catholics. wheres the truth.

[thecooksinwa]

Well, I'm not a catholic. Baptism doesn't save you anyway, it's just an outward sign of an inward change, think of it as one of the first acts of obedience after being born again, or saved. I don't believe that an angel spoke to joe, if one did, he wasn't from God. Jesus and satan are not brothers, no man can become a god, and rule your own planet, all the contradictions of the b.o.m. teachings. Jesus is the only way. If you don't believe that, I can't help you, and it's like pearls to swine.

[beeblequix]

Beauchap70,

You're wrong -- BOM was written

during OT -- Book of Ether - Jaredites circa 2500BC - 600 BC

during NT -- 3 Nephi written before and after Christ

after NT -- Mormon & Moroni wrote up until 385AD.

Your assertion that the BOM was written "between" OT & NT is therefore refuted by the BOM.

Just Bcuz Joe had a 3rd grd educ. does not mean he was uncharismatic & untalented. He regailed his family with tales of the natives years b4 he authored the BOM. Natural storyteller.

[volcomman27]

bible rocks

[dmonti20]

I didnt hear anything to really defend the LDS church but more to attack the Book of Mormon vs Bible video without really giving specifics and real solid explanations about a Mmormon evidences outside the LDS church or even withing.

[FOTOFOTA]

We are alll arguing because people like you do not want to follow instructions.All the Mormons are asking is this:Pray to our Father in Heaven and ask Him to give you the answer if the Book of Mormon is true after your studying instead of crtizicing it.If He is a God of love then He will definitely tell you.What's hard about that?

[dmonti20]

Follow what instructions.???the instructions of the LDS church? common..man! I have read the book of Mormon and studied it and I did ask God to reveal to me if it was true and the next day I accidently ran into the website that contains the video the "Book of Mormon vs the Bible" and I believe it along with the confirmation of the Holy Spirit that this was an answer from God. Science is created by God and to blindly ingnore so many evidences & pure common sense is unimaginable to me.

[holidays61397]

dmonti 20...was your heart sincere?! Maybe you should keep praying until you get a different "answer"???? Just playing the devil's advocate...

[xsavedkt]

let me tell u.. I prayed to God forever to show me the truth.. I come from a muslim background.. I live in Salt Lake City.. but God showed me the TRUE Christianity! how odd... he has a lot of opportunities!!!!!!!

[Beauchamp70]

no dude im srry what u came across was a way for the satin to get to u. i got one Q for u. if the bible is missing 105 books in it. then how can u study it? its like having a spelling test and all u have is half the words. thats how i c it. and the book of mormon is true. it tells u what is missing from the bible. and it actually clarifies the bible. and yes the prophet said that the bible is true. but its missing alot of stuff witch the book of mormon has.

[xsavedkt]

This is EXACTLY what I was going to say!...they NEVER defended anything about themselves, they just rejected the video without any reason!

[fairldsorg]

The Church does not spend any resources defending it's beliefs, or refuting the critics. Some members of the Church do. That is where this video comes from. From faithful Latter-day Saints who are not letting the critics make "uncontested slam dunks" against the Church.

[Arythmnmaker1]

May I inquire, What is considered an , " Uncontested slam dunks against the Church" ? And how does it really affect the Church, if I may so ask. Also, can you give any examples, as I'm very curious. Thanks!

[fairldsorg]

Those are the words of Elder Neal A Maxwell, and it means that critics make false accusations, and no one is there to correct it, so it is an uncontested slam dunk for the critics.

Their mind will never change, but they can affect those investigating the Church, or members of the Church with lies (I have personally seen this many times). If someone is there to answer criticisms, it will give those who are questioning some positive information.

[butterflycells]

It's interesting to hear these scholar's opinions, but none of them gave any examples of evidence they mentioned. So, is there proof that Reformed Egyptian is a real language, or that there really was barley in the new world during Book of Mormon times?

[fairldsorg]

If you go to the FAIR site (just click on my name) and look in the "playlist" for "Bible vs Book of Mormon answered", and then look for the videos "Grains and The Book of Mormon", and "pt 11 Reformed Egyptian and languages in The Book of Mormon", you will find answers to your questions.

[lindalds]

I totally agree with John Tvedtnes (sp?) I can't understand how these anti-Mormons can so totally parade their total ignorance out in public in front of God and everyone. But, I guess they feel that it's perfectly OK since there are people out there who actually believe them. As long as they can keep people ignorant of the truth, they are perfectly justified in saying whatever they want to. I just wish that more people would stop taking them at face value. But I guess that's the easy way out.

[101xox101]

us mormons (LDS) should not compare them we read both

[WhiskeyyWoman]

LDS isn't even really about all this crap they put in that video. The basic is that you find love and happiness in the world with Christ. I know man, I was baptised Mormon. I had to take all the little classes and everything. Today, I still appreciate all the positivity LDS gave me but I have different beliefs outside of the church. The Mormons are still very kind to me and don't judge me. They just told me that they hope I find peace. Most Mormons are good people. So fuck this "it's false" shit

[TheBackyardProfessor]

As usual, Dr. Peterson, Brant and John have great insights. Is it any wonder I love to read these gents, and hang around the FAIR conferences with them? GREAT vid, keep on making these as well!

[SunDevil03]

Ok, can you link me to where an elaboration of these points are? Some URL's I can visit to see these documents? (I challenge you to find any that aren't directly from SHIELDS, FARMS, or FAIRLDS. But if that is all you can come up with thats fine.)

[fairldsorg]

As you know Youtube doesn't allow the pasting of webistes so I had to write in the word "dot" everywhere there is supposed to be one. So keep that in mind when you cut and paste it. His references are spread out through a few of his articles here:

Ok, it's not working, let me try something else.

Go to the article on the FARMS website at and click on "authors" on the left side of the page. Go to John E. Clark, there are 2 John Clarks, so make sure its John E

[fairldsorg]

His references are spread throughout his articles, but most can be found at the one entitled "Archaeology, Relics, and Book of Mormon Belief"

Now, to make things more complicated, this article doesn't have references, you have to go to the hardcopy online. It is in the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies vol. 14 #2. To get there go to farms dot byu dot edu and click on "read our publications" on the left side of the page, then click on "Journal of Book of Mormon Studies"

[fairldsorg]

Then click on "Journal of Book of Mormon Studies Volume 14 Issue 2 (2005)" and go down to the endnotes. I apologize for the maze, it would be much easier to just post a link, but I cannot. I'll email you the links.

Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.

[SunDevil03]

"know" = "no" hehe

[SunDevil03]

I have said nothing vulgar nor obscene so in know way are my comments condemning me.

"This is a segment from an upcoming video rebutting the anti-Mormon video BIble vs The Book of Mormon."

So these "comments" are being used in a "rebuttal". To what purpose do they serve any relevance? The comments of scholars from a LDS apologetic group aren't going to hold much clout in supporting a rebuttal (to the academic world that is...)

[fairldsorg]

You are correct in saying that it won't sway the scholarly community, but it was not meant to. LHM video had some major problems with it that needed to go over, but did not need an hour of pointing our every problem. These comments about the video are broad, but do show that we don't think it was an accurate, or fair portrayal. There are written rebuttals that have the room to acknowledge these problems, but it wasn't possible to address them all in the video.

[SunDevil03]

Umm what was I supposed to be seeing? The myriad of other people who see what I see. FAIR took some time to try and create a quick spin video to try and prey on the blind faith most LDS members have. Did you not want me to post because this point was already posted?

[fairldsorg]

This video is entitled "COMMENTS". Your comments are not making you look very good. You seem to look past obvious answers, looking for some type of criticism.

[Jarkko1983]

go to the fairlds youtube youser and they have video list on the bible vs book of mormon points whre they discuss the topics topic by topic.

[SunDevil03]

This is not a rebuttal... they did not touch on any of the SUBSTANCE of "The Bible vs The Book of Mormon"... instead they simply tried to discredit the way it was made and the scholars inside of it. If the movie was so off-base... shouldn't you be using your time to make COUNTER-POINTS? You guys really shot yourself in the foot on this one.

[fairldsorg]

Please see the previous comments

[DianaArmstrongGonzal]

GOD and JESUS are ONE and the SAME

[livy111us]

Modalism has been denounced since Sabellius in the third century.

[fairldsorg]

It's been explained in past comments. You may notice that this is Bible vs BOM "comments". You may also notice in the about this video, it says that it is the scholars opinions of the video. For a full rebuttal, go to the FAIR website.

[fairldsorg]

It's been explained in past comments. You may notice that this is Bible vs BOM "comments". You may also notice in the about this video, it says that it is the scholars opinions of the video. For a full rebuttal, go to the FAIR website.

[longof99]

This is not a rebuttal. Their argument is against the "character" not the "conclusions." BIG difference. Where is the refutaion?

[teenidkwhy]

bonnie are you on this one?

[livy111us]

Also, some of those examples can be found in Brant Gardners review of the movie, found at fairlds dot org on the left side of the page

[fairldsorg]

I find it common that critics of the Church don't have a problem with being crude and calling names.

To view evidence, see my other videos.

God bless

[bbbfohio]

Blah, blah, blah.

Not a SINGLE example of anything in the movie!!

They did this... they did that... Show us an EXAMPLE!?!?

They can't and they didn't. Why didn't either of these jerks tell us how that there IS evidence of horses, metal coins, wheat, barley or the historical people, cities and nations given in the Book of Mormon?

Because they CAN'T. The Book of Mormon is FICITON and this little vide is VOID of any real evidence that the Bible Vs. BOM is not true.

[Jarkko1983]

"Because they CAN'T. The Book of Mormon is FICITON and this little vide is VOID of any real evidence that the Bible Vs. BOM is not true."

-They have made point by point videos, they can be found from the fairlds youtube user, it's a video list answering the points made by the video.

So, they can answer and have answered.

[NoneBeforeNoneAfter]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

"...glory of GOD in the FACE OF JESUS CHRIST."

-II Corinthians 4:6

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

--Matthew 1:23

"I and my Father are ONE."

--Jesus Christ, John 10:30

[theeagerurger]

Who are the elect of God?

TEU

[Jarkko1983]

why does this comment exist in here?, it is perfect example of how these freaks behave, go off the topic allways.

[OriginLevel7]

People should do their homework before saying outrageous the claims that I have heard. There is evidence on the DNA subject and everything they say in this video. The Book of Mormon is TRUE.

[omahavinnie]

so the mormon apologists are right that the video provided no evidence and was just good ole christian apologists tripe. and this apologist grnmessiah character is correct- the mormon apologists claimed to have evidence- yet did not share it.

i love it!!! 19th century mormon myth vs. third century christian myth!!!!! may i continue to be entertained by both sides of these infamous fables!!!!!

[livy111us]

You may have not have seen or possibly ignored my statement of an upcoming release which DOES have the evidences in them. These SHORT clips were not made to go over very many evidences. But they do contain some

[omahavinnie]

wow- i expect a personal response from a christian apologist, but not a mormon one. although i do not believe either side of this debate has provided sufficient evidence, i have grown to expect better behavior from mormons. overall, you definately practice your personal, family and community values in a far more exceptional manner than christians. in spades.

my original comment was rhettorical in nature- but i will review your video.

[funnrun]

what about the DNA? You can't get around that.

[livy111us]

Actually, here in about 2 weeks you will no longer be able to say that. FAIR will be releasing it's video on DNA and The Book of Mormon. This argument has been turned against the critics.

[funnrun]

What does FAIR have to do with the facts? Please tell us how the DNA has turned against the critics and Science? Let's look at Science for the truth about DNA, not the Mormons. Mormons love DNA unless it goes against them. Blind faith is all you have, anyone can have that.

[livy111us]

We actually quote non-LDS studies. We will state the facts, it's up to you to accept them

[livy111us]

funnrun was blocked for using strong profanity

[funnrun]

Blind faith is all you have. Your Leaders even say that is others words. "Read the Book" forget the facts of DNA or Archaeological Evidence. That is blind faith, and that is sad place for anyone to have to battle. Your Pride is far more important than your quest for God. Someday I hope you put down Joe and find God.

He is waiting for you my friend.

[livy111us]

Apparently you are not up on your Mormon studies. I am sure you are up on your criticisms, but not the evidences.

[funnrun]

You will live your whole life defending Joe instead of living with God. That is your pride at work, you can only fool people who don't know anything about God. It's called blind faith and it's the foundation of the LDS. God is waiting for you, go to him without Joe and live.

[jazzguru1]

Actually...going to God directly for the answers is a big part of LDS beliefs. That's not blind faith.

[funnrun]

Well then why do you need Joe? Most Believers go to Jesus & the Lord for thousand of years with out Joe.

[dirkhunter]

Blind faith is going from church to church and finding contradicting doctrines, I would know I went to 5 different churches before the LDS. The LDS faith follows the bible more than all of the ones I went to and they teach repentance instead of forgiveness all the time. What the world needs is people that better themselves instead of people that try to justify their sin by forgiveness.

[nafun123]

well said well said

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Chords Your misinterpreting scripture. the sticks are the scrolls or better called the 2 records. the 2 nations will be gathered after being scattered and it is being realized now that the Book of Mormon has been printed for the world to read as it is scripture just like the bible.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was founded upon direct revelation, as the true church of God has ever been, according to the scriptures.

We believe that no man can administer salvation through the gospel, to the souls of men, in the name of Jesus Christ, except he is authorized of God, by revelation.

Ensign Jan 2008

And the gates of Hell shall NOT prevail against it.

[chords7]

CLJS

I can testify by the power of the Holy Spirit which indwells me and by the power of the royal priesthood that God has bestowed upon all believers that the LDS is not the true church of God, that Joseph Smith Jr was not a true prophet and that salvation is ONLY through Christ.

1 Cor 3:16; 1 Peter 2:5; Rev 1:6; Acts 4:12.

Now how do we know whose testimony is credible?

[chords7]

GLJS

If the true Gospel msg of Christ was so completely apostate that Smith has to restore it to something that it never was, then the gates of hell DID prevail and the HS and Christ both FAILED were Smith claims he will not.

Who is more capable of keeping the Church out of complete apostasy. Smith or the Holy Spirit?

[livy111us]

You may have noticed that it says in the "About this video", that it is only a segment from an upcoming release. If you have not heard of any evidence, then you are not up to date on scholarship.

[lds9999]

Great video, and informative.

[grnmessiah]

You must have watched a different video than I did; I have not heard of any evidence that would corroborate the BOM--and this video was basically them saying "Yes there is evidence," without bothering to provide even one counter-argument.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

There is more and more evidence being released every year proving the validity of the Book of Mormon.

I testify the Book of Mormon is true and it testifies of Jesus Christ the Holy One of Israel. It is the literal Stick of Joseph from Ezekiel.

[grnmessiah]

There is no evidence that I know of, unless you believe the BS released by farms. That's just what I was complaining about--claiming that there is evidence without citing any examples.

[chords7]

GLJS

Your testimony that the BoM is the literal stick of Joseph from Ezekiel is not supported by Gods Word.

I suggest you read Ezekiel 37 in context verse 22 shows what the one stick is.

If you were to actually read Gods Word and not trust what you are told you would see that the two sticks are actually LAND not books.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Revelation 14:6-7

6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgement is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

-The Prophet of God, Joseph Smith-

[chords7]

GLJS

Yet you still will not answer a question.

Why are you afraid to look at the Bible?

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Chords , it doesn't say God would write on lands, it says sticks. sticks were nicknames for SCROLLS that the Jewish prophets wrote on. Ezekiel knew about scrolls and another record from the seed of Joseph of Egypt, the poor son of Isaac that was sold into slavery. Joseph Smith is of the same lineage of Joseph and so are Lehi and his Family.

[chords7]

GLJS

Read the whole chapter, all of 37 is about Israel.

The sticks represent northern and southern divided parts of Israel. The verses explain that this is about land NOT BOOKS. The whole point of the two sticks is to form one stick. read v21 and v 22 These sticks will NOW BE ONE NATION on the mountains of Israel.

These 2 sticks became one stick which is representative of a divided Israel and is NOW ONE land and is physically located on the mountains of Israel.

[chords7]

GLJS

Vs 22 explains they are with ONE KING and will never again be two nations or divided into 2 kingdoms.

The Ezekiel 37 reference to sticks is unquestionably about Israel becoming ONE NATION and not being divided again.  It is clearly in the text.

If you don't see that please explain to me why the scriptures goes from talking about Israel and the dry bones then about the BoM and then about Israel being two nations indeed into ONE nation?

[chords7]

GLJS

Great to know Smith was a descendant of a Hebrew that makes this so much easier.

Does Smith have any living family? If so we can simply check the mitochondrial DNA and know that smith was indeed related.

Also since the LDS people are "changed" into Hebrew blood lines let's check of few of them for DNA also.

Do you want to know why the LDS WILL NOT check this? Same reason they will not excavate Cuhmora, BOTH are lies.