What I would give to hug one. I love foxes and it breaks my heart that china skins them alive and all around the world they are slaughtered for THEIR fur. I pray there are,animals in heaven where no man can tarnish their beauty.
Here's an interesting thought. Human society is spreading accross the world, we are not going to stop no matter how many speices we endanger. Domesticated animals have the best chance of survival, and happiness.
it looks and acts like a grey version of a welsh corgie mutt that i had. super annoyingly friendly too. i think people proved this could be bred into foxes a looooong time ago. they certainly spent a lot of time reinventing the wheel.
I wonder if the same principles are valid to cats. Siamese cats vocalise more, tend to socialise more too and have a different melanistic pattern. Domestic cats are domesticated animals, but have maintained many of their wild instincts... Siamese cats are somewaht different, though.
My dog was in the room when I played the companion video of aggressive foxes,yet he showed no reaction. When he saw THIS video,he stood up and barked at the screen.
You CAN find silver fox breeders in the united states. The issue is they aren't the "tame" russian kind, they're just red foxes with the silver color morph (just like a black jaguar is still very much a jaguar, etc)
The population of domestic foxes are in russia, dotted through europe and even less in america (I think we have a small nonpet (yet) program run by scientists here) The russian breeders are reluctant to give to americans because of the common "throw away" mentality towards pets here
where do you live? you can get these Belyaev fox's in Russia, but i recently learned there are many breeders in the USA that breed foxes for tameness like the Belyaev foxes
True, but the USA breeders' foxes haven't even come close to achieving the level of domestication Belyaev (and the Novosibirsk facility that continues breeding them) reached in theirs.
These critters are a lot more calm than the non-Russian variety and there's a few traits that set them apart like a) *much* easier to litter train b) can be kept indoors without fear of wrecking the place and c) enjoy being cuddled and staying on the owner's lap.
@clovera I think if a big interest group in the US formed breeding and showing the most docile foxes, good stocks of more docile foxes could be born. And how expensive are these russian foxes?
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this looks like some kind of breeding mill.those cages are a disgrace.animals have a need to run and play.i find this cruel.those cages are not big enough for a hamster,never mind a fox.you are a disgusting people and i hope to God you and your group of abusers have a shitty life and i hope all bad things happen to you and yours.if anyone does not like what i said here,tough shit! deal with it!!
They're scientists, of course it's a 'breeding mill'. They're not making pets for money, they're doing RESEARCH.
If they actually sold their foxes as pets, they could maybe afford better conditions for the rest of them, because their funding was pretty much cut off when the USSR collapsed. That's why it's so groady there.
Hey, for those who wants to get these wonderful pets, now its possible!!!
This year our company has oficially started to sell them. We can send tamed foxes to any country you are in. Unfortunately, our website is under construction now, but with all questions, wishes and orders you can email us
well i read and watched some videos and i'm really surprised. the idea of a friendly fox stuns me and i kinda like it :) its like a new species of foxes. or in this case subspecies. I bet one day in the future we'll start seeing them in pets stores but i have no doubt in my mind they will be expensive (and no doubt PETA will try and stop it, those crazies XP)
I find this fascinating, I saw on t.v the Russian experiment and it's amazing. It shows that you can basically make new species like dogs, I wonder what other animals can be tamed like this *evil laugh* MUAHAHAHAHA.
Year old, but dogs are a species, as are wolves, and they both belong to Canidae, the genus. Wolves are Canis Lupus and dogs, ironically, are Canis Lupus Familiaris. The domesticated dog originated as a domesticated form of the wolf, and then through speciation became many different breeds of domesticated (familiaris) dog.
Anonymous Cthulhu-- If they were a different species, then they wouldn't have the same species name, Lupus, in the system of binomial nomenclature. Familiaris is the subspecies name, the third term.
Besides that, dogs and wolves can interbreed with free choice, no negative genetic repercussions ensuing (provided there's no inbreeding, of course). Whereas, with dogs to coyotes and jackals, or wolves with coyotes and jackals, and so on, fertility decreases and diseases increase after gen F3.
It's difficult for me to say. The animals in this video have a genetic basis for producing less adrenaline. By contrast, using spaying or neutering is a mechanical process. I also think that the types of hormones affected are different.
For example, neutering removes about 90% of the body's ability to make testosterone. Spaying may remove the body's ability to make estrogen. The absence of either of these hormones will alter a fox's behavior, but not quite in the same way.
ah, it is amazing to see what we are capable of with natural taming techniques that involve no alteration of genes or any similar methods. to turn a wild animal into a friendly pet is an astounding work.
While it's sweet to see such a friendly fox wanting to socialize with a human, I'm not so sure about manipulating wild animals into ideal pet-types to amuse us humans, though.
In fact, it's like breeding foxes to "brainwash" them into such loyal, slobbering house animals...besides, we have abused and abandoned pets in the past. So if we start doing that to foxes as well, then we may have done a pretty serious crime against Nature.:(
I wouldn't say that this is a crime against nature, but an act of nature itself.
But the true triumph of this experiment was not in creating a docile animal. No, that was but a side-effect. The transcendant realization of this experiment was to show the connection between adrenaline and behavior. It reveals that under controlled circumstances, humans may have actually tamed themselves hundreds of thousands of years ago, creating the standard for the motives that we all feel today.
actually the origional intent of the experiment was to improve the russian fur industry, and later branched off into the adrenalane test...this is pretty cool though...maybe most animals could be "transformed" in this way as well
I wonder then, about the phenomenon of domesticated pigs to quickly revert to a "wild boar" state in the wild. I've always found this to be a baffling and amazing thing, especially since it can happen not just over generations, but to a single pig! Perhaps within pigs, the adrenaline is capable of returning, but I wonder what exact environment factors induce this?
Ten months old, but the answer is the wild in general, predators, the danger, all of that which is not present in a domesticated environment. Adrenal genes increased to aid the animal in fight or flight. You can't survive in the wild, or it's unlikely, as a tame and physically gentle animal. Even the most adorable bunny is ruthless in its survival.
Well we tamed dogs and cows and chickens and cats and hamsters and chinchillas and parrots and dingos (same species as the dog, I know), and rats and mice.. it's not like this is too new. Pet-over-population should be avoided, though, yes. It's not really "brainwashing", though, just domestication. I think it's pretty cool. Scary at the same time, but still interesting.
That's how humans tamed dogs and cat, this is simply speeding up the process of genetically taming a fox, it's really no different than what happens in nature.
Have you checked the Cornell website lately? There is a picture of what seems to be an adult fox with blue eyes. (The picture comes up when you click on the "Fox Genome" link)
It's also interesting, because there wasn't even any genetic engineering. Old-fashioned breeding techniques were all that was needed to bring out these changes. (And within only 10 generations, too. The probability for change then became reliable at 25 generations)
It's an interesting idea to see foxes become a new alternative to a pet, should this behavior streak continue on it's path. Not just that, but the utility the animal could be used for, it's a natural born predator, I imagine mice and other rodent infestations could be countered with the use of such a creature.
Also, is this only with the Russian Foxes, or do you suppose the same behavior could be observed with foxes more native to the western hemisphere, such as the Red Fox?
I think that because this population over there in Russia was so carefully bred to be this way, it's only them at this point in time. But this kind of breeding program can work with any fox, anywhere, or even any other animal. It just takes a lot of resources to develop them to this point.
However, since this kind of "tameness" (adrenaline-production profile) is already in the foxes' genome, there are instances where one wild fox can appear to act tamer than others. But not to this extent.
Might look a bit different, but yeah - if you did the huge breeding program again, you could probably get the same results. Makes me wonder through - what would other animals look like?
Sigh... if anyone ever figures out if we can and/or where we could get one, plz tell. :D
I think this study is so fascinating, but as much as I want a fox I would be hesitant to get one. The rabies vaccine is not reliable with foxes. Many fox breeders and raisers actually vaccinate themselves because of the fact you can't do that so far with a fox. (I am getting my source from a veterinarian I work for)
Our pet silver fox Faybee reacted exactly the same way when she greeted us, but especially guests or strangers. But unlike this fox (which surprises me), she would vocalize a lot, mostly squealing. I just hear this fox panting. Faybee came from a fox fur farm at the age of a few weeks. As far as I know she was not being bred for tameness. I think by just being around humans as she was all her life foxes greet humans as they would other foxes.
I agree. There is something in canid genetics that makes them amicable to things they do not fear. From foxes to wolves, they seem to behave in the same manner when greeting. As you say, wild foxes, having not grown up with people, have too many reservations about the unknown. Hunger may drive them to periodically interact with other species. Some foxes are also more willing to be curious, and it is this trait which Belyaev exploited to breed the stock shown in this video.
Additionally, your comment makes me think of what the fur breeders did with the animals Belyaev bred for them. I suspect not every one got turned into a fur; it is possible that they may have taken Belyaev's work and tried to replicate it, to save money. As such, there may be any number of not necessarily tame, but less-wild silver foxes floating around the fur farm populations.
Thanks for commenting. Faybee is adorable in your videos.
They did keep some inside their house as pets. Not sure for how long though. Also I am sure that they sold foxes as pets many times before. They seemed to know the routine, with giving us the info and worming meds we needed for her. I wonder who would be a better source for a pet, these exotic pet breeders I hear about, or the fur farm?
Most will in other farms the ones shown here will not die.. thay are too valuable alive.
I have friend that farm went from killing for fur to breeding for pets. The act to breed them to make the easier to kill .. made the fur less wanted but the Experiment also show that the Domestication of the Silver Fox one reason has now given us tons of info on how wild dogs and wolfs came to be with man.
It's true, you bring up a good point. Because the process of taming also tended to make their fur patterns unpredictable, they were less viable for the fur market. Thanks for commenting.
revolutionaryluddite : Fennecs foxes make much better pets than the arctic or red foxes. They don't smell nearly as bad as the red and are easier conditioned to warmer climates than the arctic. You should read up on them if you're interested in a fennec.
A... actually, this fox is not a part of that program! :) The surroundings may look similar because the researchers are on a budget but must keep many foxes. They aren't harvested for fur, at least, not any longer.
I know people on the sybilsden message board that actually have foxes as pets. Not recommended for a first pet though. They need a pretty large outdoor pen and they pee on everything from food bowls(with the remains still in it) and furniture. Oh and they love ripping furniture, especially leather.
Hey! I know Sybil's Den! I found it in a web search one day. She has a ton of animals and the required experience (and property) for raising something exotic like a fox. She even owned a rhea, I was surprised at that. Thanks for commenting!
Whats the big deal its just anouther animal locked in a cage. Do people really have to have their fantasy pets or some shit. Just keep things natural.
Nevertheless, there is now a gene pool of mostly domesticated foxes. Would you rather see them euthanized or turned into fur coats, as originally intended?
At least as perts in the hands of the right owners they can live a good life. It's certainly preferable to being stuffed in a cage most of its life.
These tame foxes look A LOT like Border Collies- only a bit fuzzier. Is it true that some of them had to be sold to fur farms due to lack of funds for the project?
That's true, especially early in the program. I heard from another commenter that the researchers wanted to stop doing that after they started to get attached to them. This occurred when the foxes started to genetically behave more like affable domestic dogs.
It does take a lot of money to run a program like that (think about the amount of money it takes to take care of a single pet, and miltiply that by hundreds of foxes)
I have a dog sold as an Alaskan Klee Kai. I strongly suspect it is not a dog at all, but a product of this experiment. They are not AKC recognized, and do not behave like dogs. It looks very similar to these. They popped up in the last 20 years or so with no explanation as to where they came from.
I own an exotic animal rescue with about 16 big cats, 20 monkeys, six bears, six wolves, 30 exotic hoof stock, 20 farm animals, 30 small mammals, 20 birds, and fifty reptiles. I am currently in the process of expanding in order to take in abouts twice that many animals.
For those of you who want a fox as a pet, fennec foxes make good pets straight from the wild (as they are pack-oriented in nature, like dogs). Additionally, red foxes (such as these), smell terribly. They have very potent scent glands like ferrets and skunks. Fennecs have no scent glands.
These are genetically tamed foxes. Fennecs only need to be raised by humans to be kind pets. Also, all reds have scent glands, as do dogs (you know that "wet dog smell"?) And even humans. Fennecs have no scent humans can notice... unless they roll on a dead animal or something.
The gland is on the tail. Not all dogs have active scent glands on the tail. If you took a fennec from its mother, you have not domesticated it. You have imprinted it upon humans. It still has its wild behavior. Dogs are genetically tamed. That means they have a longer period of imprinting that any canid. They also have a unique abilities to read people and to adjust and modify their predatory behavior.
Fennecs do have a gland above their tail, but it's not a scent gland. It's purpose is not known. It's believed to have had a purpose in the past, but no longer functions. Genetic domestication deals with a defect in the gene that stimulates the produces horomones for mental maturity. I.E - Your dog is a mental infant compared to a wolf. "Wild" animals are smarter and develop more personality, and become more rewarding pets. Communication is on a higher level
"Wild animals are smarter." Not true with the dog. Recent research has shown that dogs have higher cognitive abilities than wolves. This comes from Hungarian research, which shows that dogs are capable of figuring our complex problems that wolves cannot. However, dogs tend to follow people, and have an ability to "follow rules." The early experiments with a wolf and a dog and gate were flawed, because the dogs were actually not opening the gate because they were "following rules."
There's no credible research that dogs are smarter than wolves, to the contrary, wolves have a larger brain scale ratio, greater brain density, and higher activity in MRI brain scans. Behavioral tests also tend to support this. On top of all this, the maturity gene has been identified and is broken in dogs. Furthermore, dogs lack of survival instinct and subsequent atrophy of cognitive function from lack of use. Wolves need to use their brains to survive. Dogs don't.
Dogs do need their brains-- their social brains. They're just neotenized. There's no credible research that wolves are smarter than dogs, other than the brains are 10 to 30 percent larger, which is common in wild and domestic animals. Also, this research in Hungary was done by trained ethologists and their results have appeared in several peer-reviewed article. Neoteny can make you smarter, and we're the perfect example of this.
CSM errs by reporting dogs are smarter. Dogs fail at escaping from a pen because CSM gave them an excuse. Likewise, the wolf pulling the rope for the meat could be explained by wolves not trusting humans, or feeling self sufficient. A rationalization can be made either way. Double standards are not an acceptable practice in science. Additionally, CSM is not as reputable of a journal as National Geographic, which reports that wolves are smarter.
There's no double standard. I guess we just disagree. National Geographic isn't a science peer-review journal either. Csanyi has been published in ethology journals, and you're ignoring that neoteny doesn't make animals dumber. It just makes them tamer and more social.
I know that neoteny doesn't make animals dumber. Some of the best scientists wouldn't fight to save their lives... that's pretty docile. But saying the results of the closed fence test, that the dog failed, is invalid because they rationalized an excuse is NOT SCIENTIFIC. To be scientific, they must therefore rationalize why the wolf failed the meat-on-rope test. They must accept BOTH or NONE. Not pick and choose.
They actually used proper methodology. You need to read their methodology and prevented the clever hans effect. If you can find their book, by Csanyi, I would suggest you read it. I can't explain their methodology and the many, many experiments they performed with both wolves and dogs. They have been performed on the neotonized foxes, and they have the same abilities. It has to be neoteny and the social brain hypothesis.
Many of the tests were biased. The most abominable being the "meat-on-rope" test described earlier, which was a trick REQUIRING human intervention to pass. It was a trick test. The animal that figured out it was a trick first and sought human intervention passes. How is that an unbiased test? The dog could have just been like "duuhh". Of course it would go back to the human. It's childish. The wolf, being wild, and self-sufficient just kept trying.
Wolves are definately smarter than dogs. Brain density and MRI activity is an impartial meter to measure overall intelligence, where wild animals are consistently far ahead. Wild animals are more like adults. They don't crave acceptance like dogs or toddlers. You scold them, they couldn't care less. That's not lack of intelligence - that's a sign OF intelligence. They will do what they want to do, not what you want them to do.
Um, Wolves are just as socially dependent as dogs. Of course a wild wold doesn't care about human attention, it has it's position in the pack hierarchy to worry about.
And dogs are extremely intelligent. Much more so than any other domestic animal. They defend our property and our lives, act as nannies to our children, help us hunt or protect and guide flocks of sheep, can specialize in police duties, search and rescue operations and even become guardians for the blind.
Most states ban all fox ownership because of rabies. Even for fennecs. Fennecs can be a little difficult to housebreak. You're better off with a chihuahua, a papillon/phalene, or a pomeranian.
Fennecs are legal in more states than other foxes, simply because when the exotic animal laws were written, fennecs weren't widely known to exist. Specific rabies vaccinations exist for fennecs and other exotics, so they won't contract the virus. There's also conflicting information about housebreaking fennecs. Some fennecs don't take to scolding well, and are difficult. Some use litterboxes with no training at all.
Fennecs are legal in my state but the two native foxes are not. It varies among the states. The reason why they don't take scolding well and are difficult to house break is because they aren't genetically tamed. Domestic dogs have the ability to learn "rules." Fennecs may be developing these characteristics as they are becoming domesticated. My guess is that they will develop like these foxes-- with floppy ears and spots. Imagine fennecs with basset ears.
I don't believe fennecs will succumb to this fate, as there is no selective breeding. For them to "naturally" evolve defective maturity genes would take..... longer than I'll be alive.
Using a litter box is not the same as housebreaking. A cat doesn't learn to use the litter box. It already knows. It just has to be given a litter box. These foxes live in the desert and may have a instinct to eliminate in sandy surfaces. I am talking about true domestication-- like a golden retriever or maine coon or a Morgan horse.
That's true. Fennecs prefer to use litterboxes because of their native environment. But don't think for a moment that Fennecs can't be trained! Zephyr the fennec (search google) on command, sits, rolls, lays down, shakes hands, fetches, and plays dead.
There's no evidence to indicate that Zephyr doesn't know 200+ words. The fact that he's more responsive to his master than the majority of dogs implies that this fennec knows at least that many. Keep in mind this is a second generation pet fennec. He's never lived without humans around.
That's really quite amazing. When I say know words, I mean that they respond to a distinctive name for their. A border collie named Rico responds to 200 words for his toys, plus other words such as obedience commans. Our brains are also neotenized. If you look at our skull, it looks like young chimp's. Neoteny and the social environment leads to intelligence.
Neoteny does not have an affect on intelligence, it has an effect on docility and self-preservation. Remember these foxes were bred for the fur industry. You club one to death in front of the others, the rest will submit, not fight, because of neoteny. That's not smart - that is childish.
I believe this comes from the methodology in ethology that was created in Germany and Austria, which was based upon social darwinism and German Romantic nationalism. Konrad Lorenz that there were wolf-like dogs and jackal like dogs (he was dead wrong). BTW, no one has done research on fennecs, but I wish they would.
Fenencs do develop neoten traits. But look at how much smarter fennecs are than your ordinary pets. An adult fennec plays with a ball dispassionately. It knows it's not alive. It does it for exercise and because its bored. Dogs and cats chase balls and string like it's going to get away. A fennec catches a mouse. When it puts the mouse down, it will step on its tail to make sure it can't get away if it's just playing dead
BTW - the two examples I refer to are two videos here on youTube. "Fennec fox plays alone", uploaded by Robetya is the fennec with the ball. The fennec that steps on the mouse's tail is Keyah... I forget the username of the uploader. Search for "fennec mouse" if you're interested. Warning: it's a littlebit disgusting to see a fennec kill and eat a mouse.
I'd really like to own one of these some day. Do you think they will ever be truly released to the public? I've seen a panda faced one that I just want to HOOOLLLDDDD XD
Some of these foxes have only ever left the compound once, to Finland, to participate in another experiment. None have survived outside this small Russian farm. U.S. researchers indeed want some of them to be sold off, to ensure the survival of the tamed genetics, but the Russian researchers have not responded to their suggestion.
It's sad that none of them have survived our of that place. But to ensure the survival of the tamed ones to being far off from the farm would be great success for one as a great pet for owners.
You can't get one. And you can't get these specific foxes, either. You can get fennecs if your state allows them, but they aren't genetically tame like these. But my state doesn't allow fox ownership without a fur farm permit. And if I had one one, I would not be able to get the domesticated foxes from Russia, because they don't export them.
I once knew someone that had a pet fox, but I believe he got it from a special breeder and in our state even needed a permit to own one. It acted like the one here though most of the time :p
Would you happen to remember what color its fur was? (Patches of white have been linked to tameness. Blue eyes even appeared. Some of the tame stock on this Russian farm look very similar to small border collies. There is also a non-arctic white phase called "marbled" that does not exist in the wild which is linked to selective breeding.)
This experiment has become classic. The melanin and adrenaline are connected. They selected for decreased melanin, so they also selected for decreased melanin. That's why they, and all domesticated animals, have spotted coats.
I am not a part of this experiment, so I have no jurisdiction over where they go. I reread my original research and found that a portion of this population of foxes only ever left Russia once, for Finland, and the colony did not survive for one reason or another.
I notice that these foxes are more playful than the aggressive ones; even before the person approached the cage the foxes were wagging their tails and sniffing around. The aggressive one seemed more like he wanted to be somewhere else.
Cute, one of them was getting jealous. The one to the left was getting jealous when the person was giving him a belly rub. :]
Be warned, they do smell quite a bit, even with the anal scent glands removed. Removal of the scent glands also does not stop their urine from smelling very strong, like skunk.
Some of the less-than-perfect tame stock may have been sold off to the breeder circuit to help fund the project. There are some interesting "marble foxes" that appear only through the domestic market (they're not albinos; it seems to be a type of manifestation of the "star" gene).
I have done a little more research, and just to be clear to all who read the above comment, a specimen of these foxes have never been sold to the outside world.
I know red foxes (Vulpes vulpes) create scent five ways: scent glands on their chin, between their toes, the rather famous scent gland on the upper part of their tail (violet gland), two scent glands just inside the anus (common to many canids), and their urine. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find a description of what any of these smell like, other than they have an overall "skunky" smell that gets stronger at breeding season.
What I would give to hug one. I love foxes and it breaks my heart that china skins them alive and all around the world they are slaughtered for THEIR fur. I pray there are,animals in heaven where no man can tarnish their beauty.
Nbrito06 1 week ago
I want one
gecko1562 1 week ago
I want this video on my 735 unit.
ogelioholde921r 1 month ago
Your video is a favorite on Paraguay
mspinney203 1 month ago
Here's an interesting thought. Human society is spreading accross the world, we are not going to stop no matter how many speices we endanger. Domesticated animals have the best chance of survival, and happiness.
unifiedreality 3 months ago
lol this can be the start of something amazing!
BloodmoonPrincess300 4 months ago
these are not half dog, half fox as people have said. they are all fox. there was a very good article about them in natgeo
theman4221 7 months ago
it looks and acts like a grey version of a welsh corgie mutt that i had. super annoyingly friendly too. i think people proved this could be bred into foxes a looooong time ago. they certainly spent a lot of time reinventing the wheel.
AromaticDogwood 8 months ago
read about this on nat geo
really opens up possibilities to domesticating other species
Armando623 8 months ago
That is one excited fox... X3
EvieWingweaver13 10 months ago
this was featured in dogs decoded, a nova film
eliassami5 10 months ago
Awwww ~♥ !!!!
xMiru8D 10 months ago
1.45 did the fox meow
skemeods 11 months ago
"GIMME DAT CRACK I NEED THAT CRACK IL DO ANYTHING FOR IT GIMME GIMME"
skemeods 11 months ago
I would seriously love to own one of these animals and would be willing to be part of the experiment. What are the chances?
GarethEDavison 11 months ago
I wonder if the same principles are valid to cats. Siamese cats vocalise more, tend to socialise more too and have a different melanistic pattern. Domestic cats are domesticated animals, but have maintained many of their wild instincts... Siamese cats are somewaht different, though.
fbaraglia 1 year ago
lol. All that trouble and effort to create a dog. nah just kidding,
the0th 1 year ago 2
Se podrá hacer algo así con mapaches? xD cómo actuarían?
habeascor 1 year ago
They must stop this or the originals will be no more than brain washed servants to humans, something must be done...
TehcnoFox116 1 year ago
because they are dogs
RaMdOmFoX102 1 year ago
they act just like dogs.
gooddarkjedi 1 year ago
i reeeaaaallly needa find the name of the institute that has all these tame foxes, but im not having any luck
XxPushoverxX 1 year ago
To anyone who thinks this is wrong, how is domesticating foxes any different from what we did to cats, dogs, and livestock thousands of years ago?
schnips074 1 year ago
It's just like a dog! I wonder if they bark. You know that wolves don't bark? It's a trait that dogs developed to communicate with people.
solocitizen 1 year ago
@solocitizen Another video on Youtube shows them barking. :)
xMadxScientistx 1 year ago
que monos ^^
Darknightcloud 2 years ago
Wonder what creationist have things to say about this huh?
Turan123 2 years ago 2
what a beautiful thing, the change we can instill in something with a little manipulation at the smallest level.
325982668 2 years ago
its interesting how the fox seems to wag its tail as a dog would when the handaler approaches.
misspurplefairy 2 years ago
My dog was in the room when I played the companion video of aggressive foxes,yet he showed no reaction. When he saw THIS video,he stood up and barked at the screen.
library1966 2 years ago
I think it's an amazing start to a new breed of Dog?Fox?Dox?Fog?
Isn't this how dogs started....Who wouldn't like one of these cuddly lil guys?
lovemysamurai 2 years ago
where can i get one? i looked it up with no luck =[
supertramp42 2 years ago
You CAN find silver fox breeders in the united states. The issue is they aren't the "tame" russian kind, they're just red foxes with the silver color morph (just like a black jaguar is still very much a jaguar, etc)
The population of domestic foxes are in russia, dotted through europe and even less in america (I think we have a small nonpet (yet) program run by scientists here) The russian breeders are reluctant to give to americans because of the common "throw away" mentality towards pets here
Machati 2 years ago
where do you live? you can get these Belyaev fox's in Russia, but i recently learned there are many breeders in the USA that breed foxes for tameness like the Belyaev foxes
andrewesquivel 2 years ago
True, but the USA breeders' foxes haven't even come close to achieving the level of domestication Belyaev (and the Novosibirsk facility that continues breeding them) reached in theirs.
These critters are a lot more calm than the non-Russian variety and there's a few traits that set them apart like a) *much* easier to litter train b) can be kept indoors without fear of wrecking the place and c) enjoy being cuddled and staying on the owner's lap.
They are so darn expensive tho...
clovera 2 years ago 2
@clovera I think if a big interest group in the US formed breeding and showing the most docile foxes, good stocks of more docile foxes could be born. And how expensive are these russian foxes?
nikigurl08 1 year ago
that looks like one happy little fox to me ^___^
Emmski93 2 years ago
As long as the foxes are being taken care of and fed and not harmed and killed I do not see the problem !
KaisyuVadin 2 years ago
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this looks like some kind of breeding mill.those cages are a disgrace.animals have a need to run and play.i find this cruel.those cages are not big enough for a hamster,never mind a fox.you are a disgusting people and i hope to God you and your group of abusers have a shitty life and i hope all bad things happen to you and yours.if anyone does not like what i said here,tough shit! deal with it!!
majorferret 2 years ago
I will deal with it by being amused by your misery and fruitless wrath at an interesting experiment. Is that sufficient? I think that's sufficient.
Night10194 2 years ago 9
I lol'd
Illiterate wuss is illiterate
An4LSeepage 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you watch the other videos you will see the animals are treated well, like dogs.
UCONNgirl 2 years ago
They're scientists, of course it's a 'breeding mill'. They're not making pets for money, they're doing RESEARCH.
If they actually sold their foxes as pets, they could maybe afford better conditions for the rest of them, because their funding was pretty much cut off when the USSR collapsed. That's why it's so groady there.
Rietto 2 years ago
well...arnt pounds and shelters like that too? i mean, its very common dont ya think?
andrewesquivel 2 years ago
poor animals.. wanna get out.
patrick10001 2 years ago
He wants to be touched by the person, he's not trying to escape.
Rietto 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey, for those who wants to get these wonderful pets, now its possible!!!
This year our company has oficially started to sell them. We can send tamed foxes to any country you are in. Unfortunately, our website is under construction now, but with all questions, wishes and orders you can email us
BiorhythmCo 3 years ago
I realize that this is an advertisement, but viewers should also be careful to take stock of the meaning of this video.
It is not only about domesticating animals to become pets, it is about the domestication process itself, and what it means to our society.
"Ten thousand years ago, no one on planet Earth had blue eyes" --anthropologist John Hawks, University of Wisconsin
ZacharyB 3 years ago
well i read and watched some videos and i'm really surprised. the idea of a friendly fox stuns me and i kinda like it :) its like a new species of foxes. or in this case subspecies. I bet one day in the future we'll start seeing them in pets stores but i have no doubt in my mind they will be expensive (and no doubt PETA will try and stop it, those crazies XP)
phantomshotgun 3 years ago 2
... Where can I get one? xD
Howlwiththewind 3 years ago
how can people get involved with this experament?
speded92 3 years ago
Why do they have to be kept in uncomfortable cages?
earthwelfare 3 years ago
what the fuck are they doing
CoNiLa2 3 years ago
if you read the info into the little gray box and click "more info" you wouldn't need to ask
phantomshotgun 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
geez! please through yourself in front of a truck or better a train!
being a smartass huh?
i hate people like you
CoNiLa2 3 years ago
oh let it lie, i'm sorry ok? just be sure you know whats going on before you ask. to meany people make this mistake
phantomshotgun 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
and just to inform you i am still pretty much wondering WHAT THE FUCK those guys are doing!
CoNiLa2 3 years ago
lol...
novemberschopin 3 years ago 2
I find this fascinating, I saw on t.v the Russian experiment and it's amazing. It shows that you can basically make new species like dogs, I wonder what other animals can be tamed like this *evil laugh* MUAHAHAHAHA.
Raven144 3 years ago
Actually dogs aren't a species, wolves are, and dogs are just a subspecies.
And this one reminds me of my dog.
FireRupee 3 years ago 2
Year old, but dogs are a species, as are wolves, and they both belong to Canidae, the genus. Wolves are Canis Lupus and dogs, ironically, are Canis Lupus Familiaris. The domesticated dog originated as a domesticated form of the wolf, and then through speciation became many different breeds of domesticated (familiaris) dog.
AnonymousCthulhu 2 years ago
Anonymous Cthulhu-- If they were a different species, then they wouldn't have the same species name, Lupus, in the system of binomial nomenclature. Familiaris is the subspecies name, the third term.
Besides that, dogs and wolves can interbreed with free choice, no negative genetic repercussions ensuing (provided there's no inbreeding, of course). Whereas, with dogs to coyotes and jackals, or wolves with coyotes and jackals, and so on, fertility decreases and diseases increase after gen F3.
FireRupee 2 years ago
can u also shorten the adrenal levels of a fox if you were to spay it?
klucker 3 years ago 3
It's difficult for me to say. The animals in this video have a genetic basis for producing less adrenaline. By contrast, using spaying or neutering is a mechanical process. I also think that the types of hormones affected are different.
For example, neutering removes about 90% of the body's ability to make testosterone. Spaying may remove the body's ability to make estrogen. The absence of either of these hormones will alter a fox's behavior, but not quite in the same way.
ZacharyB 3 years ago 2
ah, it is amazing to see what we are capable of with natural taming techniques that involve no alteration of genes or any similar methods. to turn a wild animal into a friendly pet is an astounding work.
brianutube 3 years ago
Actually thats not natural taming at all, its selective breeding. They are that tame from birth
danielbritos 3 years ago 21
@danielbritos "domestication" is perhaps a better term than "taming" here.
MvonRichthofen1918 11 months ago
I have mixed feelings about it.
While it's sweet to see such a friendly fox wanting to socialize with a human, I'm not so sure about manipulating wild animals into ideal pet-types to amuse us humans, though.
In fact, it's like breeding foxes to "brainwash" them into such loyal, slobbering house animals...besides, we have abused and abandoned pets in the past. So if we start doing that to foxes as well, then we may have done a pretty serious crime against Nature.:(
Tsubahi 3 years ago
Hi Tsubahi,
I wouldn't say that this is a crime against nature, but an act of nature itself.
But the true triumph of this experiment was not in creating a docile animal. No, that was but a side-effect. The transcendant realization of this experiment was to show the connection between adrenaline and behavior. It reveals that under controlled circumstances, humans may have actually tamed themselves hundreds of thousands of years ago, creating the standard for the motives that we all feel today.
ZacharyB 3 years ago 8
actually the origional intent of the experiment was to improve the russian fur industry, and later branched off into the adrenalane test...this is pretty cool though...maybe most animals could be "transformed" in this way as well
CommunistPenguinMan 3 years ago
I wonder then, about the phenomenon of domesticated pigs to quickly revert to a "wild boar" state in the wild. I've always found this to be a baffling and amazing thing, especially since it can happen not just over generations, but to a single pig! Perhaps within pigs, the adrenaline is capable of returning, but I wonder what exact environment factors induce this?
VampireSeal 3 years ago 2
Ten months old, but the answer is the wild in general, predators, the danger, all of that which is not present in a domesticated environment. Adrenal genes increased to aid the animal in fight or flight. You can't survive in the wild, or it's unlikely, as a tame and physically gentle animal. Even the most adorable bunny is ruthless in its survival.
AnonymousCthulhu 2 years ago
Well we tamed dogs and cows and chickens and cats and hamsters and chinchillas and parrots and dingos (same species as the dog, I know), and rats and mice.. it's not like this is too new. Pet-over-population should be avoided, though, yes. It's not really "brainwashing", though, just domestication. I think it's pretty cool. Scary at the same time, but still interesting.
FireRupee 3 years ago 3
@Tsubahi
but, dogs used to be wild animals, the ancestors of the modern dogs were wild animals
it would be the same history with the foxes...
CAMILO9015 1 year ago
@Tsubahi
That's how humans tamed dogs and cat, this is simply speeding up the process of genetically taming a fox, it's really no different than what happens in nature.
Cozmolyne 2 months ago
Have you checked the Cornell website lately? There is a picture of what seems to be an adult fox with blue eyes. (The picture comes up when you click on the "Fox Genome" link)
neonas85 3 years ago
You're right; I just checked now, and I don't remember those pictures. I suppose the Trut study is still ongoing, even as I type.
ZacharyB 3 years ago
Genetics are so fascinating. Just what can be done through "playing as God" is incredible!
DaScatman 3 years ago 3
It's also interesting, because there wasn't even any genetic engineering. Old-fashioned breeding techniques were all that was needed to bring out these changes. (And within only 10 generations, too. The probability for change then became reliable at 25 generations)
ZacharyB 3 years ago
It's an interesting idea to see foxes become a new alternative to a pet, should this behavior streak continue on it's path. Not just that, but the utility the animal could be used for, it's a natural born predator, I imagine mice and other rodent infestations could be countered with the use of such a creature.
DaScatman 3 years ago
Also, is this only with the Russian Foxes, or do you suppose the same behavior could be observed with foxes more native to the western hemisphere, such as the Red Fox?
DaScatman 3 years ago
I think that because this population over there in Russia was so carefully bred to be this way, it's only them at this point in time. But this kind of breeding program can work with any fox, anywhere, or even any other animal. It just takes a lot of resources to develop them to this point.
However, since this kind of "tameness" (adrenaline-production profile) is already in the foxes' genome, there are instances where one wild fox can appear to act tamer than others. But not to this extent.
ZacharyB 3 years ago
Might look a bit different, but yeah - if you did the huge breeding program again, you could probably get the same results. Makes me wonder through - what would other animals look like?
Sigh... if anyone ever figures out if we can and/or where we could get one, plz tell. :D
JD867 3 years ago
Is it trying to get out?
Kazota 4 years ago
It appears to want to meet with the person approaching the cage.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
I think this study is so fascinating, but as much as I want a fox I would be hesitant to get one. The rabies vaccine is not reliable with foxes. Many fox breeders and raisers actually vaccinate themselves because of the fact you can't do that so far with a fox. (I am getting my source from a veterinarian I work for)
LarkPash 4 years ago
Our pet silver fox Faybee reacted exactly the same way when she greeted us, but especially guests or strangers. But unlike this fox (which surprises me), she would vocalize a lot, mostly squealing. I just hear this fox panting. Faybee came from a fox fur farm at the age of a few weeks. As far as I know she was not being bred for tameness. I think by just being around humans as she was all her life foxes greet humans as they would other foxes.
LittleFrock 4 years ago
Hi LittleFrock,
I agree. There is something in canid genetics that makes them amicable to things they do not fear. From foxes to wolves, they seem to behave in the same manner when greeting. As you say, wild foxes, having not grown up with people, have too many reservations about the unknown. Hunger may drive them to periodically interact with other species. Some foxes are also more willing to be curious, and it is this trait which Belyaev exploited to breed the stock shown in this video.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
Additionally, your comment makes me think of what the fur breeders did with the animals Belyaev bred for them. I suspect not every one got turned into a fur; it is possible that they may have taken Belyaev's work and tried to replicate it, to save money. As such, there may be any number of not necessarily tame, but less-wild silver foxes floating around the fur farm populations.
Thanks for commenting. Faybee is adorable in your videos.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
They did keep some inside their house as pets. Not sure for how long though. Also I am sure that they sold foxes as pets many times before. They seemed to know the routine, with giving us the info and worming meds we needed for her. I wonder who would be a better source for a pet, these exotic pet breeders I hear about, or the fur farm?
LittleFrock 4 years ago
I own a fennec, and ya' you need a license for them.
I live in cali.
Anything about needing a license to own Silver Foxes?
and where do I buy one?
MisterDongDong 4 years ago
Most will in other farms the ones shown here will not die.. thay are too valuable alive.
I have friend that farm went from killing for fur to breeding for pets. The act to breed them to make the easier to kill .. made the fur less wanted but the Experiment also show that the Domestication of the Silver Fox one reason has now given us tons of info on how wild dogs and wolfs came to be with man.
CCorsair 4 years ago
It's true, you bring up a good point. Because the process of taming also tended to make their fur patterns unpredictable, they were less viable for the fur market. Thanks for commenting.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
They're all going to die.
Shinebakaaho 4 years ago
revolutionaryluddite : Fennecs foxes make much better pets than the arctic or red foxes. They don't smell nearly as bad as the red and are easier conditioned to warmer climates than the arctic. You should read up on them if you're interested in a fennec.
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 years ago
It's a pity that this fox will be electrocuted
to make furs... :( !!!!
manuelochka 4 years ago
A... actually, this fox is not a part of that program! :) The surroundings may look similar because the researchers are on a budget but must keep many foxes. They aren't harvested for fur, at least, not any longer.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
I know people on the sybilsden message board that actually have foxes as pets. Not recommended for a first pet though. They need a pretty large outdoor pen and they pee on everything from food bowls(with the remains still in it) and furniture. Oh and they love ripping furniture, especially leather.
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 years ago
Hey! I know Sybil's Den! I found it in a web search one day. She has a ton of animals and the required experience (and property) for raising something exotic like a fox. She even owned a rhea, I was surprised at that. Thanks for commenting!
ZacharyB 4 years ago
Do fennecs behave the same way as wild foxes that are kept as pets, or are fennecs more domesticated?
revolutionaryluddite 4 years ago
thats one happy fox there
LunaTemari 4 years ago
so do the foxes play pinball or what is that noise?
confucious42 4 years ago
That noise, I suspect, is their tails and bodies knocking and spinning the food bowl as they excitedly run back and forth in the cage.
ZacharyB 4 years ago
Wow I watched the Aggresive ones first and it's quite a contrast, the dociles "even wag thier tails like modern dogs"
Constavlos 4 years ago
Whats the big deal its just anouther animal locked in a cage. Do people really have to have their fantasy pets or some shit. Just keep things natural.
eishikibahamut 4 years ago
Nevertheless, there is now a gene pool of mostly domesticated foxes. Would you rather see them euthanized or turned into fur coats, as originally intended?
At least as perts in the hands of the right owners they can live a good life. It's certainly preferable to being stuffed in a cage most of its life.
BlasterMaster555 4 years ago
fur coats are annoying. Especiall y when you have alergies how ever I've never ate fox before. Does anyone know how they taste by chance?
eishikibahamut 4 years ago
If they were any good they would be a delicasy somewhere in an undeveloped part of the world...
BlasterMaster555 4 years ago
So possibly eddible I'll write that on my gluttony list of things to eat before I die.
eishikibahamut 4 years ago
lmao
Relmart 4 years ago
These tame foxes look A LOT like Border Collies- only a bit fuzzier. Is it true that some of them had to be sold to fur farms due to lack of funds for the project?
revolutionaryluddite 4 years ago
That's true, especially early in the program. I heard from another commenter that the researchers wanted to stop doing that after they started to get attached to them. This occurred when the foxes started to genetically behave more like affable domestic dogs.
It does take a lot of money to run a program like that (think about the amount of money it takes to take care of a single pet, and miltiply that by hundreds of foxes)
ZacharyB 4 years ago
I have a dog sold as an Alaskan Klee Kai. I strongly suspect it is not a dog at all, but a product of this experiment. They are not AKC recognized, and do not behave like dogs. It looks very similar to these. They popped up in the last 20 years or so with no explanation as to where they came from.
ConcreteTsunamii 4 years ago
o_o Not all domesticated animals have spotted coats.. Lol.
joeyxheffalump 4 years ago
I own an exotic animal rescue with about 16 big cats, 20 monkeys, six bears, six wolves, 30 exotic hoof stock, 20 farm animals, 30 small mammals, 20 birds, and fifty reptiles. I am currently in the process of expanding in order to take in abouts twice that many animals.
sandymonitor 4 years ago
For those of you who want a fox as a pet, fennec foxes make good pets straight from the wild (as they are pack-oriented in nature, like dogs). Additionally, red foxes (such as these), smell terribly. They have very potent scent glands like ferrets and skunks. Fennecs have no scent glands.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Not like these. These are tamed foxes. They lost their nasty smells during selective breeding.
GotForGimmick 4 years ago
These are genetically tamed foxes. Fennecs only need to be raised by humans to be kind pets. Also, all reds have scent glands, as do dogs (you know that "wet dog smell"?) And even humans. Fennecs have no scent humans can notice... unless they roll on a dead animal or something.
Jaspian 4 years ago
The gland is on the tail. Not all dogs have active scent glands on the tail. If you took a fennec from its mother, you have not domesticated it. You have imprinted it upon humans. It still has its wild behavior. Dogs are genetically tamed. That means they have a longer period of imprinting that any canid. They also have a unique abilities to read people and to adjust and modify their predatory behavior.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Fennecs do have a gland above their tail, but it's not a scent gland. It's purpose is not known. It's believed to have had a purpose in the past, but no longer functions. Genetic domestication deals with a defect in the gene that stimulates the produces horomones for mental maturity. I.E - Your dog is a mental infant compared to a wolf. "Wild" animals are smarter and develop more personality, and become more rewarding pets. Communication is on a higher level
Jaspian 4 years ago
"Wild animals are smarter." Not true with the dog. Recent research has shown that dogs have higher cognitive abilities than wolves. This comes from Hungarian research, which shows that dogs are capable of figuring our complex problems that wolves cannot. However, dogs tend to follow people, and have an ability to "follow rules." The early experiments with a wolf and a dog and gate were flawed, because the dogs were actually not opening the gate because they were "following rules."
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
There's no credible research that dogs are smarter than wolves, to the contrary, wolves have a larger brain scale ratio, greater brain density, and higher activity in MRI brain scans. Behavioral tests also tend to support this. On top of all this, the maturity gene has been identified and is broken in dogs. Furthermore, dogs lack of survival instinct and subsequent atrophy of cognitive function from lack of use. Wolves need to use their brains to survive. Dogs don't.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Dogs do need their brains-- their social brains. They're just neotenized. There's no credible research that wolves are smarter than dogs, other than the brains are 10 to 30 percent larger, which is common in wild and domestic animals. Also, this research in Hungary was done by trained ethologists and their results have appeared in several peer-reviewed article. Neoteny can make you smarter, and we're the perfect example of this.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
CSM errs by reporting dogs are smarter. Dogs fail at escaping from a pen because CSM gave them an excuse. Likewise, the wolf pulling the rope for the meat could be explained by wolves not trusting humans, or feeling self sufficient. A rationalization can be made either way. Double standards are not an acceptable practice in science. Additionally, CSM is not as reputable of a journal as National Geographic, which reports that wolves are smarter.
Jaspian 4 years ago
There's no double standard. I guess we just disagree. National Geographic isn't a science peer-review journal either. Csanyi has been published in ethology journals, and you're ignoring that neoteny doesn't make animals dumber. It just makes them tamer and more social.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
I know that neoteny doesn't make animals dumber. Some of the best scientists wouldn't fight to save their lives... that's pretty docile. But saying the results of the closed fence test, that the dog failed, is invalid because they rationalized an excuse is NOT SCIENTIFIC. To be scientific, they must therefore rationalize why the wolf failed the meat-on-rope test. They must accept BOTH or NONE. Not pick and choose.
Jaspian 4 years ago
They actually used proper methodology. You need to read their methodology and prevented the clever hans effect. If you can find their book, by Csanyi, I would suggest you read it. I can't explain their methodology and the many, many experiments they performed with both wolves and dogs. They have been performed on the neotonized foxes, and they have the same abilities. It has to be neoteny and the social brain hypothesis.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Many of the tests were biased. The most abominable being the "meat-on-rope" test described earlier, which was a trick REQUIRING human intervention to pass. It was a trick test. The animal that figured out it was a trick first and sought human intervention passes. How is that an unbiased test? The dog could have just been like "duuhh". Of course it would go back to the human. It's childish. The wolf, being wild, and self-sufficient just kept trying.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Wolves are definately smarter than dogs. Brain density and MRI activity is an impartial meter to measure overall intelligence, where wild animals are consistently far ahead. Wild animals are more like adults. They don't crave acceptance like dogs or toddlers. You scold them, they couldn't care less. That's not lack of intelligence - that's a sign OF intelligence. They will do what they want to do, not what you want them to do.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Um, Wolves are just as socially dependent as dogs. Of course a wild wold doesn't care about human attention, it has it's position in the pack hierarchy to worry about.
And dogs are extremely intelligent. Much more so than any other domestic animal. They defend our property and our lives, act as nannies to our children, help us hunt or protect and guide flocks of sheep, can specialize in police duties, search and rescue operations and even become guardians for the blind.
Can cats do that?
imhatepie 2 years ago
Thought you should know that dogs can also sense drops in blood sugar levels in diabetes sufferers and potentially smell cancer.
okeeffdp 2 years ago
Most states ban all fox ownership because of rabies. Even for fennecs. Fennecs can be a little difficult to housebreak. You're better off with a chihuahua, a papillon/phalene, or a pomeranian.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Fennecs are legal in more states than other foxes, simply because when the exotic animal laws were written, fennecs weren't widely known to exist. Specific rabies vaccinations exist for fennecs and other exotics, so they won't contract the virus. There's also conflicting information about housebreaking fennecs. Some fennecs don't take to scolding well, and are difficult. Some use litterboxes with no training at all.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Fennecs are legal in my state but the two native foxes are not. It varies among the states. The reason why they don't take scolding well and are difficult to house break is because they aren't genetically tamed. Domestic dogs have the ability to learn "rules." Fennecs may be developing these characteristics as they are becoming domesticated. My guess is that they will develop like these foxes-- with floppy ears and spots. Imagine fennecs with basset ears.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
That would not be very cute.. :(
I don't believe fennecs will succumb to this fate, as there is no selective breeding. For them to "naturally" evolve defective maturity genes would take..... longer than I'll be alive.
Jaspian 4 years ago
Using a litter box is not the same as housebreaking. A cat doesn't learn to use the litter box. It already knows. It just has to be given a litter box. These foxes live in the desert and may have a instinct to eliminate in sandy surfaces. I am talking about true domestication-- like a golden retriever or maine coon or a Morgan horse.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
That's true. Fennecs prefer to use litterboxes because of their native environment. But don't think for a moment that Fennecs can't be trained! Zephyr the fennec (search google) on command, sits, rolls, lays down, shakes hands, fetches, and plays dead.
Jaspian 4 years ago
A domestic dog can learn over two hundred words. I will send you the article on the Hungarian research.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
There's no evidence to indicate that Zephyr doesn't know 200+ words. The fact that he's more responsive to his master than the majority of dogs implies that this fennec knows at least that many. Keep in mind this is a second generation pet fennec. He's never lived without humans around.
Jaspian 4 years ago
That's really quite amazing. When I say know words, I mean that they respond to a distinctive name for their. A border collie named Rico responds to 200 words for his toys, plus other words such as obedience commans. Our brains are also neotenized. If you look at our skull, it looks like young chimp's. Neoteny and the social environment leads to intelligence.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Neoteny does not have an affect on intelligence, it has an effect on docility and self-preservation. Remember these foxes were bred for the fur industry. You club one to death in front of the others, the rest will submit, not fight, because of neoteny. That's not smart - that is childish.
Jaspian 4 years ago
I believe this comes from the methodology in ethology that was created in Germany and Austria, which was based upon social darwinism and German Romantic nationalism. Konrad Lorenz that there were wolf-like dogs and jackal like dogs (he was dead wrong). BTW, no one has done research on fennecs, but I wish they would.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Fenencs do develop neoten traits. But look at how much smarter fennecs are than your ordinary pets. An adult fennec plays with a ball dispassionately. It knows it's not alive. It does it for exercise and because its bored. Dogs and cats chase balls and string like it's going to get away. A fennec catches a mouse. When it puts the mouse down, it will step on its tail to make sure it can't get away if it's just playing dead
Jaspian 4 years ago
BTW - the two examples I refer to are two videos here on youTube. "Fennec fox plays alone", uploaded by Robetya is the fennec with the ball. The fennec that steps on the mouse's tail is Keyah... I forget the username of the uploader. Search for "fennec mouse" if you're interested. Warning: it's a littlebit disgusting to see a fennec kill and eat a mouse.
Jaspian 4 years ago
I'd really like to own one of these some day. Do you think they will ever be truly released to the public? I've seen a panda faced one that I just want to HOOOLLLDDDD XD
sakiimi 4 years ago
I would love to have a tamed pet fox one day. And where do these foxes get sold off to?
Articuno19 5 years ago
Some of these foxes have only ever left the compound once, to Finland, to participate in another experiment. None have survived outside this small Russian farm. U.S. researchers indeed want some of them to be sold off, to ensure the survival of the tamed genetics, but the Russian researchers have not responded to their suggestion.
ZacharyB 5 years ago
It's sad that none of them have survived our of that place. But to ensure the survival of the tamed ones to being far off from the farm would be great success for one as a great pet for owners.
Articuno19 5 years ago
You can't get one. And you can't get these specific foxes, either. You can get fennecs if your state allows them, but they aren't genetically tame like these. But my state doesn't allow fox ownership without a fur farm permit. And if I had one one, I would not be able to get the domesticated foxes from Russia, because they don't export them.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
I once knew someone that had a pet fox, but I believe he got it from a special breeder and in our state even needed a permit to own one. It acted like the one here though most of the time :p
blayzebright 5 years ago
Would you happen to remember what color its fur was? (Patches of white have been linked to tameness. Blue eyes even appeared. Some of the tame stock on this Russian farm look very similar to small border collies. There is also a non-arctic white phase called "marbled" that does not exist in the wild which is linked to selective breeding.)
ZacharyB 5 years ago
This experiment has become classic. The melanin and adrenaline are connected. They selected for decreased melanin, so they also selected for decreased melanin. That's why they, and all domesticated animals, have spotted coats.
westphalianprinz 4 years ago
Foxes my favorite animal! GIve me 1 of these nice 1s PLEASE! Jesus Loves and Adores!
Christianwantsafox99 5 years ago
I am not a part of this experiment, so I have no jurisdiction over where they go. I reread my original research and found that a portion of this population of foxes only ever left Russia once, for Finland, and the colony did not survive for one reason or another.
ZacharyB 5 years ago
I notice that these foxes are more playful than the aggressive ones; even before the person approached the cage the foxes were wagging their tails and sniffing around. The aggressive one seemed more like he wanted to be somewhere else.
Cute, one of them was getting jealous. The one to the left was getting jealous when the person was giving him a belly rub. :]
Terestrasz 5 years ago
What a difference from the other one! It's behaving like a puppy. I would like to have one of these someday.
damelain 5 years ago
Be warned, they do smell quite a bit, even with the anal scent glands removed. Removal of the scent glands also does not stop their urine from smelling very strong, like skunk.
Some of the less-than-perfect tame stock may have been sold off to the breeder circuit to help fund the project. There are some interesting "marble foxes" that appear only through the domestic market (they're not albinos; it seems to be a type of manifestation of the "star" gene).
ZacharyB 5 years ago
I have done a little more research, and just to be clear to all who read the above comment, a specimen of these foxes have never been sold to the outside world.
ZacharyB 5 years ago
Thanks for that comment about the scent.
I know red foxes (Vulpes vulpes) create scent five ways: scent glands on their chin, between their toes, the rather famous scent gland on the upper part of their tail (violet gland), two scent glands just inside the anus (common to many canids), and their urine. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find a description of what any of these smell like, other than they have an overall "skunky" smell that gets stronger at breeding season.
ScottieDM 4 years ago