@pmoyer50 you can do a personal mesage and type the whole thing out in one letter. All you have to do is visit my channel and click on send message below my name. And notice even after all of your early sarcasm and insults we can stil carry on an intellectual conversation. Instead of feeling sorry for saying jesus effing christ you should feel a little sorry also when you insult people.
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
@shieldsff so far as i can tell..mr spong does not undermine the gospels...he undermines traditional understanding of the gospels...thats 2 very differnet things...he is not attempting to abolish or rewrite scripture so far as i can see....only proposing to view and interpret it in a new way....this is a radical approach...and if you have not done your homework (as he has)..then he will lose you quick.
On the contrary, Mr. Sponge not only undermines the tenants of the gospels, but further does not seem to mind maligning the epistles equally as much. HE appears to particularly loathe the writings of the Apostle Paul. Read some of Sponge's work & compare them to the teachings of Paul-what an astounding variance ! As I've written elsewhere,
Mr. Sponge has the legal recourse in our nation to start his own religious group of whatever stripe he chooses. It should be recognized though that for to call the contrived religious theories of Mr. Sponge Christianity is a smear & slander of the orthodoxy view of that faith.
The best thing I've seen is "Burke Lecture: John Shelby Spong," about 80 minutes (on YouTube), in which he does not stomp lightly on religion--he completely deconstructs it. He's been declared a "heretic," now a target of hostility, fear, and death threats by the religious, the "true believers." For what? Breaking the chains that bind the mind.
As an atheist (former believer) I read one of Spong's books as part of my search to see if there were any christian sources I could respect or at least tolerate. He was the only one.
I have a tremendous respect for John Shelby Spong. He's a practical man with much common sense. He's not religious, but spiritual.
Before you read the piece on his view on atheism, I knew it would be positive. , just from knowing what kind of man he is. And it's a fact that we're condemning many of the very same things he is, i.e. The evil god concept, which covers much of the Old & New Testaments. lols!
conflic is caused when christians defend themselves,,,muslims attack and thats ok..athiests attack and its ok,,,im supposed to just roll over and let u abuse me without complaint,,,,bite me,,,also jesus got mad several times he wasnt just a limp wristed miss guided homeless man,,,,i refuse to let the people online say all this trash without telling them that 1 they are wrong,2 they are evil.3 they promote hate toward jews and christians,4 they need medication..also they have no real value
@thorsnose okay fair enough. I'll hold the same. Then we can keep doing that forever. Though i wont tell you that you are evil or tell that you're stupid for your wrongness, just ilinformed and scared. I wont say that you are promoting hate towards other humans, i will however say that your religion is and your holy book is promoting these things. I wont say that you need medication, but i will say that you need to learn to think critically, and not just obey others
@BjornSeverinLarsen GOD doesnt need your belief,,nor do i...you believe the planets just cycle for 3 billion years with a perfect climate and all inter connected,,you have more faith than i do...you cling to insanity,,the earth is dieing and doomed,,GOD wants to save people ,,but most cling to darkness,,the antichrist will take over soon when the eruo is the reserve money for oil,,and he will kill all who do not worship him,,try tellin him you dont believe in him..you will be headless exstinct
@thorsnose "you cling to insanity" ",,the antichrist will take over soon when the eruo is the reserve money for oil,,and he will kill all who do not worship him,,try tellin him you dont believe in him..you will be" ...and Unicorns and Dragons will roam the world...
@TianSan ..he is prince charles of wales,,,so i have warned you,,,but i can not inlighten you...only GOD could get into your deasesed brain,,,get a verichip in your hand or head,,,just like prince charles and william have ,,,,the dollar is toast,,,china has asia and is happy with that for now...but the eu is the power to be,,,prince charles is a unicorn,,at least on his coat of arms,,,,when the world ecomomy dies the eruo will be the mark of the beast system...it has 666 on every coin FU TS
@TianSan then why are all these things happenning? evolution? just because you dont believe you will not be safe from the world govenment that the bible said would take over ..you stick your head in the sand to stay calm but your ass is up in the air,,,read the antichrist and a cup of tea,,,the catholic church is not christian and the pope is evil,,,they worship satern,jupiter and janus the gate keeper the man with the keys is not peter its janus his temple was there first,,sun worship
@thorsnose you're right, I'm crazy to believe in evolution, and I'm crazy that I don't believe in talking snakes, the world is flat, zombies etc, or that the world is coming to end because of the mark of beast and 666. You're perfectly sane, and I'm completely nuts to believe in evolution, or global warming, or that "shit just happens"
@TianSan never said i like the way the world as we know it will end,,,if you dont see the stop sign,,,doesnt mean its not there,,the earth is dieing and getting hot,,shit does just happen at times to good people or bad at random,,but the earth could not circle perfectly for billions of years,,you believe in the impossable,that random chance can make perfection,,you dont seem to understand the laws of probability..the end is very near not hundreds of years away,,its your life you chose ,,
@thorsnose I believe there are billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and billions of trillions of planets. At least one of those billions of trillions of planets have to support life. Our planet is such a planet. I'm wagering that perhaps there is another planet in the billions upon trillions of planets out there that can support life Also. The earth doesn't "circle" perfectly. It's elliptical. I don't believe in the impossible. I believe in the improbable. Like you said... I'm crazy.
@thorsnose i apologise,,,i thought you had a chance to see the truth,,,you are just evil and deluded by satan,,many things are happening now you are not looking,,,you concept of god is so small...who do you think made all this,,,santa claus......you are the god of your world,,,im glad i dont live in your world,,,,you are not a athiest you are a luciferian,,,,,merry christmas
@thorsnose right I'm evil. That's why I'm out there murdering and raping people right? Who made all this? Why do you think it's a who? I'm so, crazy that I keep asking what made this, instead of asking who? I'm glad you don't live in my world, as I am glad I don't live in yours. If you consider yourself sane, then I am glad to consider myself insane in your eyes. I don't know why you would say I am the God of my world. You have to define what God means. I exist, god does not. Contradictory.
spong is a satanist,,,,and not far removed from the average athiests,,please do not call that demonic bullshit artist a christian,,,,get a veri chip its the mark of the beast 666 prince charles is the anti christ,,and the eu is babelon...all predicted in the last days,,,so when you get the chip in your hand you will be doomed to eternity in hell,,,,you know the place you dont believe in
@xd1rtx you should go to my church, you would fit in fine,,,when they chip you tell satan hello,,,and get a foil mask,,i noticed most athiesys are butt ugly,,must be a form of punishment from GOD,,Wish you had a life instead of the endless videos that attack really nice people,,.and please do not reproduce,,,,your attacks serve satan only,,,i read the end of the book,,,,he loses,,,fire lake awaits you
thanks loon, i appreciate all the really batshit crazy examples you are putting forth for christandom,,, oops i mean christian kingdom, i almost forgot the average IQ of you morons... you've never seen my face, so you wouldn't know if i was ugly, i have kids and i've never made a video that attacked anyone,,, way to do your homework and research the person you are talking shit on,,, dumbass!!!
@xd1rtx cool thanks for no video,,and just haveing kids means nothing,,you just forgot to abort them,,you and the test tube dad were busy that day,,use a condom next time..cant wait to see you face the antichrist,,he will kill anyone who doesnt worship him as god,,so theres a good chance you will tell him hes a loon,,then you will be killed as well as all the christian loons,,,hell is real and ready for your entire loony family,,enjoy the lake of fire,,,there are no unbelievers in hell
you are delusional, you say i'm ugly but u haven't even seen me, you say you wish i had a life instead of endless vids that attack nice people, yet i've never made a video attacking anyone, you say please don't reproduce, but it clearly says on my page that i am a father, and i have 2 videos with my son in them, you say me and the test tube dad were to busy to abort my kids, yet i am a male, no one will ever take you seriously, you are a complete waste,,,, have a nice day, asshat
@xd1rtx well xf1 was refering to the atheists who put up crap on youtube,,,i dont care about you,,dont know you ,dont want to,,as for kids who cares,,im sure they are clones of you and your next dates...no one take you seriously ...so hope you move to saudia arabia where you came from ,,,merry christmas
thats right, you dont know me, even tho you pretended to for about 2500 characters on this page,, hope i move to saudia arabia where i came from? do you even read this shit as u r typing or do your fingers just move without you even giving yourself a chance to form a thaught? i hope in the limited amount of time you have left on this planet, that is if your page is correct and you are 56, that you take a moment to knock the dust off that gelatinous mound of shit you call a brain,,
@thorsnose your funny,,,and so typical,,,,so filled with your own bullshit...you are a legend in your own mind...too bad nobody else can see the GOD like creature that you are,,,youtube is so full of people just like you,,i would prefer death to living around ass ole sss like you...sodem and gamorra will rise up on judgement day and throw stones at you...your brain is like a bowling ball and the holes are full of dog shit
@thorsnose So are you admitting that your God is an unloving tyrannical Monster and that you are his little narcissistic tool that takes delight in the suffering of others?
@NightHawkBomber001 get a verichip and worship prince charles of wales,,,i realise you dont have a GOD of your own,,,except possably yourself,,,but the end is near,,,,the beast will kill as many christians as he can,,,,as for me im just a old man who likes to piss off idiots like you,,,in this modern culture i have no value and nothing to lose by telling people like you that you are heading for hell,,,i dont make the rules or enforce them,,,Satan is the GOD of this world he created death hes u
@thorsnose I’ll take that as a yes then. Very well I want no part of your bigoted hateful unloving unjust beliefs. You’ve admitted that you are an old man who gets his kicks from telling people they are going to suffer for eternity. You’ve made some rather extreme assumptions about me that have no basis in fact (You’ve assumed my religious view is atheistic). I’ve actually read you bible in great detail. Based on your words I follow it better than you do.
@thorsnose Your Bigotry and insults have failed to get a rouse out of me. Now you could learn from this and be more mature but odds are your going to go and insult the next person you see.
@thorsnose "i realise you don't have a GOD of your own,,,except possably yourself" Well the funny thing is, what is more humancentric than to believe that the all powerfull being created us, in his image. I personally find it weird that he created this HUGE universe, and created an insignificant planet, and then made us in his image, and left. I find it alot less humancentric to believe that natural mechanisms brought us forth through 3 billion years of evolution - so in noones image
@NightHawkBomber001 your funny man,,,no body cares what we think,,,we just swap insults,,,,isnt it convieniant that all your problems are caused by me??i dont kill,,bomb,,,or create inflation,,,im just keeping a computer warm....try to find a real enemy...im just a comedian
@thorsnose Insults? I can see yours, where are mine? I haven’t blamed you from my problems. I haven’t called you an enemy. I’ve satiated an observation. Your trying to cause conflict which is against the teachings of your Christ. People like you try to make enemies
@Oreceo I think anyone who aspires to be anything that stretches who they are as a person is a challenge. Does that mean we disqualify them from the annotation they try to aspire to? A martial artist is still considered a "martial artist" from the very first day they step into training....even if they don't know all the moves yet or haven't perfected them.
Yes some call themselves Christian but don't strive towards the goal of fully being as Christ was.
@Oreceo to be completely honest "Christianity" is post Old Testament....hence when "Christ" came to earth. Like any people who respect and are warned of past events, we read OT to know what not to repeat unless we become careless plus there are mant things still observed as "rule" (10 com.). The foundations of Jesus's teachings did include much of Judeo scripture but its pretty easy to know what "common practice" is now compared to then. Christianity lets us understand sin...forgiveness.
It doesn't sound like this Bishop is...what they would call..." Christian" ....and they'll probably oust him eventually. Thanks for sharing this. Well done!
@julzabro Bah, that doesnt matter. Every christian thinks theyve got the authority to determine who else is or is not a christian, or "true christian" anyways haha. Silly people.
@jazzx251 I am now a member of a local Unitarian Church and still an atheist. I am not crazy about the word Humanist because it is easy to misinterpret, I do hear it quite a bit however. If you enjoy Spong, you might also check out Marcus Borg. I am reading 'Reading the Bible Again for the First Time' and although he is a little mean to atheists, I find his writing informative and wonderful.
A practical atheist is a theological term for people who say they are believers but live and act out their faith as if there is no God. But realistically, he does not make any sense either to atheism or Christianity. Atheism because if God is just the experience of love, why worship Him? If God is disinterested in being honest in revealing Himself, how can we know anything about Him. so on either side of the fence Sprong makes no sense.
@kdurston1 I guess that Spong isn't really worshiping God at all. To me he is acknowledging that God is the love and life force within us, and he is paying tribute to God by using that as best we can. I guess he calls himself a Christian as he considers Jesus to have been a important focal point and messenger for God. As an Atheist, I can say that if a God goes exists, Spong's God is something I could make sense of. However, I can see that his views would not go down well with many Christians.
"Due to the completion of an internal review, we have thus rejected your atheist membership card and any claims to reasoning, which you might have accrued through your time here with us" - The Atheist, Liberal, Communist, and God-Hating Secret Organization now residing in Pat Robertson's mind tormenting him with gay pleasure.
Thanks for sharing. Though I may have grown up on the opposite end of the Atheistic-Christian spectrum as you, I'm grateful for voices like Bishop Spong's which provide a fair meeting ground for curious, open minds like yours (and I hope, mine, too). I'm all chips in the game for his concept of a new, developing humanity; knowing full well (to complete the metaphor) that the cards in my hand may not win me the game.
Oh, and I hope the trick your daughter wanted to show you was a good one!
I agree. I would join Spong's church if I decided to become a Christian. I have read his book "Why Christianity Must Change or Die", a good read by the way, and I am reading his book "Jesus for the Non-Religious". I am convinced that Jesus very likely existed but not the way the church wants us to think. Before Spong I thought noghing good could come out of Christianity but now I want to join his movement to make change for the good of humanity. I hope Spong's ideas bring forth good change.
As an athiest myself, I find the Reverend Sprong far more palpable than the majority of Christians, or at least the more vocal fundamentalists, who claim to be the voice of God on earth. Perhaps they'll take my atheist card away from me too. LOL Another Christian author I like is Tom Harpur, though I'm willing to bet there are many who would deem him a heretic. But that label just causes me to like him even more.
Yes i have just found Shelby spong, just bought a book he wrote "Why christianity must change or die", still reading it. I would never of listened to him while i was a Christian. He is too weak for Christians by and large.
I don't like Pat Robertson either. But sorry Spong is not a Christian. He threw any semblance of Biblical doctrine or even arguable Christianity out a very long time ago.
Example ?
The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed. ~ John Shelby Spong
There are many more examples but that is a fail right there. If you reject Christ's sacrafice on the cross for our sins, you're not a Christian.
The atonement is not the only theory of the cross which makes you a Christian. The transactional view of the cross is a very medieval concept of an angry God, placated by a human sacrifice...I see the cross as the expression of God's love for us and Christ's victory over death. I am still a Christian. So is John Spong.
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures" ~ 1st Corinthians 15:3-4.
But that passage does not imply atonement. It doesn't necessarily mean died so that we could be absolved of our sins. On the other end of the spectrum it could mean died "by" our sins, ie. our sins caused him to die. There are other possible meanings of course. The theology is not as cut-and-dry as it is made out to be nowadays.
I don't know how you can say, "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures", in your words, "does not imply atonement". I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. You can make silly statements or speculate on what the text clearly does not say all you like, that wont miraculously turn your words into anything that resembles a sound exegesis of the text.
And you can say that all you want, but you're still not paying any attention to the text. You're relying on your background, what people have said it means. You can say I'm being ridiculous all you want, but I have Greek to back me up. It's clear in English too; "died for our sins" can mean many things! Also, Jesus spoke out against sacrifice, and Deuteronomy 12:31 forbids human sacrifice.
The passage is clear. You are pulling something out of the passage that simply isn't there and you are speculating upon what simply isn't there. It *is* that simple.
You have no "linguistically valid alternate interpretation", you are offering nothing but the most extraordinary silliness that would just about insult the intelligence of Forrest Gump.
Go play Monty Pythonesque games with someone who is interested in playing "lets be mind numbingly stupid" along with you.
Because there's not much hope you will get a linguistic clue.
Well, you seem to be ignoring it based on your own personal thoughts, not on any sort of linguistic examination of your own. Interesting that you would base your faith on a certain translation of a text with no consideration for the text in its original language. That seems silly to me, personally, not the other way around...
the cross is a barbaric idea used by a primative culture to torture and kill people, his idea is valid a valid christian idea, just because its heretic doesnt mean its not christian. like the demiurge or w/e they call it lol.
says the person who has no clue what the word heretic means XD. Heretic (or "free thinker") doesn't mean non-christian, it means the non mainstream gnostic/mystic sects of christianity.
then why respond at all? if you don't believe my statement there is the all mighty dictionary that will clarify that heretic means free thinker :) the church persecuted the christian gnostics (arguably the first christians) who were heretics, even now christian gnostics/mystics are considered heretics, but the term is more accepted by the heretics since there isnt anything wrong with having free thought.
Heretics are those who go against a churches doctrine, like Galileo , or Copernicus, or those nasty witches in Salem. Its not by definitio anti christian. It's just a label given by brainless stiffs that prop up heirachical religious institutions.
He's my favourite Christian, too. Bishope Gene Robinson is also very inspiring-the prayer he used as an invocation for the inaugural event is good reading and thought provoking for people of faith and atheists alike.
Your right, that was a cheap shot, especially since I'm not Christian. I just kinda would like to think Christianity = kindness, peace, acceptance and nice things like Jesus sounds like He's into in some parts of the Gospels.
I think this belittles the many great folks who've died on behalf of others. Let alone that it is absurd to believe God is bound by some law of death in order to not damn someone to hell. Think of how silly and absurd that is. You're infected with a mental virus that uses fear to keep you holding on to it and spreading it. And it gives you an image of an arbitrary, immature god that you have to grovel to so he won't do the most evil things imaginable to you.
How does that belittle those who've given their lives? They performed the greatest act of love.
I think you don't understand justice. Here's a good definition for you: Justice means punishing the guilty, and making sure the innocent go free. If there are cases where a judge let guilty criminals go free, or punished the innocent, then he's not just. If there is a God, don't you believe He's just?
Are you guilty of anything? What are you going to do about your sin?
I only say that because you make it sound like He's the only one who'd done it. But being unjustly murdered doesn't justify anyone. As for your idea of God's justice, eternal hell fire for some of those amazingly arbitrary transgressions found in the bible is unimaginably unjust. No sin fits that punishment. I think this is obvious and pretending to not see it seems disingenuous.
As for my sins, I try to do as little as possible and ask forgiveness and don't worry about mixing foods, etc. I don't use scriptures to justify my prejudice, either. Don't know if you do, but that would fit the pattern of most "born agains."
Why so judgmental and intolerant towards born-againers?
If a criminal standing before the judge says, "I try to do as little as possible and ask forgiveness." Will the judge let him go? No, justice must be served.
If you've lied, you've broken God's law, and just like a guilty criminal, you must be punished. If your excuse works, God is unjust for not punishing sin.
Maybe you have a different definition of justice. What is your definition?
No Hitler isn't in heaven. There is no reason for a heaven. If hell existed (which it doesn't in my opinion) he would only go there for a limited number of years (simple ratios) not infinity, because that's ludicrous, and nobody can comprehend that length of time. If God punishes sin, he is punishing his own creations which he made 100% prone to mistakes and error.
It's kind of like a coach kicking one of his best basketball players off the team, just because he had 1 lousy night where he got more fouls than points, when they both know that you can't always play a great game of basketball because everyone has their off games.
Because you referred to this guy a "anti-christ" and because they usually are pushing for legislation of intolerance and blind themselves from evidence to the contrary of their tribal superstition.
I wouldn't tell the judge someone else was punished who didn't do it, so let me go. I'd expect reasonably fitting justice. But maybe it's already forgiven. I don't know. I just know what is absurd.
Spong doesn't believe these things. He claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe what Christians believe. It's a matter of "a religion believes x,y, and z. If you don't believe x,y, and z then your religion is something different."
Such is the case with Spong. He claims to be a Christian but really subscribes to a different religion that is loosely (I mean very loosely) based on Christianity.
I think even an Atheist can see how he doesn't believe what Christians believe.
Fine. But then I hope you're not one of those hypocrites who claims this country was founded by Christians. By your narrow definition you would also have to consider many of the founding fathers non-Christians, starting with Thomas Jefferson who did not believe that Christ was divine or in any of his supposed miracles.
Who are you to say what "truths" one must believe in to be a "christian"? Honestly, that sounds more catholic than christian. He believes in Jesus, and has a "personal" relationship with him. Religion is just bueraucracy between us and god.
WHOA, this guy Spong is right on the money!! I'll have to check out his YT vids.
Anyway, as one who believes in God, but, not what man teaches about God, usually to gain power & influence over others, I don't agree w/ athetism, but, I ADMIRE it b/c they are, sometimes, the ONLY people DEAMNDING an UNFLINCHING investigation into religious dogma & the harm that it's done to humanity since its inception. I notice that the most religious people are usually the least spiritual...and vice versa.
Fair and unbalanced? Do you mean unbiased? Good on you for offering comment. John Shelby Spong helps me balance my life. It's great to know others share in the enlightenment.
We are all equally granted freedom of speech no matter who we are or what we believe. Are you saying that you have the right to say what you think but people like Pat Robertson and others like him don't? That's REVERSE INTOLERANCE and reverse "stripping people of their rights". Should people not have the right to voice their opinions just because you don't agree with their views? That's scary.
If Sponge was a REAL Christian, no atheist would "love him". He doesn't represent me and I am a Real Christian. I've done the research on Him and He's NOT Christian. His teachings are not Biblical. He distorts the Bible and I know for a fact that atheists love that. No wonder he's loved by folks who don't love God and say there isn't one.
Thanks for posting. Spong was my Bishop growing up... he confirmed me when I was 13 (I'm now 36). I've since drifted from the church and organized religion (perhaps I'll find the right church for me one day)... due to the hypocricy I see in much of the teachings. However, Spong has been one of the few that have gotten through to me... that I still can be a modern, scientific thinker and a Christian at the same time.
Spong has saved countless souls from rejecting Christianity. A great man!
I love Spong too. He introduces rationality to the interpretations of what the people from the first century were trying to teach. I was a member of the Church of Alumni but after listening to him I am back! He is so logical.
I've heard about this guy, but never got around to reading him.
I share his same beliefs. The Christian message... well... it sucks. The idea that humans are so evil, deserving eternal torture, and that god is only going to save those who believe is a cold depressing message. Uh, sorry, but I don't see it as act of divine mercy. A serial killer deciding to spare a few victims? Perhaps, but not the most merciful being in the universe.
Try the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus! I am a Red Letter Christian! What Jesus taught makes sense...even today! Study science and philosophy, but continue to study the words of Jesus and make an integration rather than a segregation. WWSS (What Would Spong Say?)
Agree completely. Spong is an atheist's best friend from the 'other side'. He is one of the few christians I deeply respect. The current archbishop of cantebury is also one of the 'good' guys.
Rowan Williams??? Hoo boy. I hate using the word "Raca" against him (considering the context that Jesus put it in when He was quoted in Scripture) but it fits Williams to a "T".
IMO, David Cloud isn't a much of a better alternative, but I'll take him anyday over Spong.
I don't know who you or your spiritual journey thus far but you are so right on about Bishop Spong and I thank you for taking the time to post your articulate endorsement of him. I hope it has led other captives of christianity to seek the freedom and pure air of skepticism and free thought.
HEY HEY HEY PEOPLE, Lets not forget about the AGNOSTICS!!!! And mam i think u'd fit more with the Agnostics. Rather than the crazy ass atheists and their theory of appearing out of nowhere ( "BIG BANG", where did the energy for that event come from, if nothing existed??), or religion who demands life to be lived in a certain way. Remember there needs to be a balance = Agnosticism
Agnosticism, diesm, and liberal Christianity are good middle grounds. Something to believe in beyond our knowlage, but not assuming you have all the answers and not devoting your entire life to it.
Spong is not a threat to me. He does not hold my eternal security in balance. As it is, I have never been a part of his flock. However, he and the rest of us will have to give an account to Almighty God for what we have done with our lives -- whether we are sinners or we are sinners saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ our Lord.
sorry to tell you... but spong is not a christian. He rejects the basic premise of christianity. Just because he has the title of bishop and professes to be a christain does not mean he has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Hell yeah
I'm also an atheist
And I really like and respect John Shelby Spong
MisWillo 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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vechorik 3 months ago
awe, your daughter's adorable, and you make many good points.
AudiGal09 6 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
@pmoyer50 you can do a personal mesage and type the whole thing out in one letter. All you have to do is visit my channel and click on send message below my name. And notice even after all of your early sarcasm and insults we can stil carry on an intellectual conversation. Instead of feeling sorry for saying jesus effing christ you should feel a little sorry also when you insult people.
sariglenn 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
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pmoyer50 7 months ago
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
shieldsff 7 months ago
@shieldsff so far as i can tell..mr spong does not undermine the gospels...he undermines traditional understanding of the gospels...thats 2 very differnet things...he is not attempting to abolish or rewrite scripture so far as i can see....only proposing to view and interpret it in a new way....this is a radical approach...and if you have not done your homework (as he has)..then he will lose you quick.
arkee71 6 months ago
On the contrary, Mr. Sponge not only undermines the tenants of the gospels, but further does not seem to mind maligning the epistles equally as much. HE appears to particularly loathe the writings of the Apostle Paul. Read some of Sponge's work & compare them to the teachings of Paul-what an astounding variance ! As I've written elsewhere,
shieldsff 6 months ago
Mr. Sponge has the legal recourse in our nation to start his own religious group of whatever stripe he chooses. It should be recognized though that for to call the contrived religious theories of Mr. Sponge Christianity is a smear & slander of the orthodoxy view of that faith.
shieldsff 6 months ago
@shieldsff i dont think he would ever refer to himself as orthodox...do you?
arkee71 6 months ago
The best thing I've seen is "Burke Lecture: John Shelby Spong," about 80 minutes (on YouTube), in which he does not stomp lightly on religion--he completely deconstructs it. He's been declared a "heretic," now a target of hostility, fear, and death threats by the religious, the "true believers." For what? Breaking the chains that bind the mind.
And he's funny.
IDoNotBlameYou 7 months ago
As an atheist (former believer) I read one of Spong's books as part of my search to see if there were any christian sources I could respect or at least tolerate. He was the only one.
paulinator61 8 months ago
I too appreciate Spong for his modernization of Christianity.
TXatheist 9 months ago
relegion makes no sense to you, but you're able to pick out normal reasonable christians now that's funny.
MusingsOfAMoron 10 months ago
How sad.
SkiesVibrant 1 year ago
I started reading Bishop Spong's "This Hebrew Lord" and can't put it down.
Too many good points to list here.
I am definitely going to look for more of his books.
gjsterp 1 year ago
I wasn't expecting your daughter to pop in!
AlwaysSunni 1 year ago
You say that "religion doesn't make any sense" - but Atheism doesn't make any sense! And Agnosticism is a failure to have any theory at all.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Thanks for making this insightful video.
I have a tremendous respect for John Shelby Spong. He's a practical man with much common sense. He's not religious, but spiritual.
Before you read the piece on his view on atheism, I knew it would be positive. , just from knowing what kind of man he is. And it's a fact that we're condemning many of the very same things he is, i.e. The evil god concept, which covers much of the Old & New Testaments. lols!
Cootabux 1 year ago
conflic is caused when christians defend themselves,,,muslims attack and thats ok..athiests attack and its ok,,,im supposed to just roll over and let u abuse me without complaint,,,,bite me,,,also jesus got mad several times he wasnt just a limp wristed miss guided homeless man,,,,i refuse to let the people online say all this trash without telling them that 1 they are wrong,2 they are evil.3 they promote hate toward jews and christians,4 they need medication..also they have no real value
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose okay fair enough. I'll hold the same. Then we can keep doing that forever. Though i wont tell you that you are evil or tell that you're stupid for your wrongness, just ilinformed and scared. I wont say that you are promoting hate towards other humans, i will however say that your religion is and your holy book is promoting these things. I wont say that you need medication, but i will say that you need to learn to think critically, and not just obey others
BjornSeverinLarsen 1 year ago
@BjornSeverinLarsen GOD doesnt need your belief,,nor do i...you believe the planets just cycle for 3 billion years with a perfect climate and all inter connected,,you have more faith than i do...you cling to insanity,,the earth is dieing and doomed,,GOD wants to save people ,,but most cling to darkness,,the antichrist will take over soon when the eruo is the reserve money for oil,,and he will kill all who do not worship him,,try tellin him you dont believe in him..you will be headless exstinct
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose "you cling to insanity" ",,the antichrist will take over soon when the eruo is the reserve money for oil,,and he will kill all who do not worship him,,try tellin him you dont believe in him..you will be" ...and Unicorns and Dragons will roam the world...
TianSan 1 year ago
@TianSan ..he is prince charles of wales,,,so i have warned you,,,but i can not inlighten you...only GOD could get into your deasesed brain,,,get a verichip in your hand or head,,,just like prince charles and william have ,,,,the dollar is toast,,,china has asia and is happy with that for now...but the eu is the power to be,,,prince charles is a unicorn,,at least on his coat of arms,,,,when the world ecomomy dies the eruo will be the mark of the beast system...it has 666 on every coin FU TS
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose By the way you talk... If you are the definition of sane, then I am glad to be insane.
TianSan 1 year ago
@TianSan then why are all these things happenning? evolution? just because you dont believe you will not be safe from the world govenment that the bible said would take over ..you stick your head in the sand to stay calm but your ass is up in the air,,,read the antichrist and a cup of tea,,,the catholic church is not christian and the pope is evil,,,they worship satern,jupiter and janus the gate keeper the man with the keys is not peter its janus his temple was there first,,sun worship
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose you're right, I'm crazy to believe in evolution, and I'm crazy that I don't believe in talking snakes, the world is flat, zombies etc, or that the world is coming to end because of the mark of beast and 666. You're perfectly sane, and I'm completely nuts to believe in evolution, or global warming, or that "shit just happens"
TianSan 1 year ago
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TianSan 1 year ago
@TianSan never said i like the way the world as we know it will end,,,if you dont see the stop sign,,,doesnt mean its not there,,the earth is dieing and getting hot,,shit does just happen at times to good people or bad at random,,but the earth could not circle perfectly for billions of years,,you believe in the impossable,that random chance can make perfection,,you dont seem to understand the laws of probability..the end is very near not hundreds of years away,,its your life you chose ,,
thorsnose 1 year ago
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TianSan 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thorsnose I believe there are billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and billions of trillions of planets. At least one of those billions of trillions of planets have to support life. Our planet is such a planet. I'm wagering that perhaps there is another planet in the billions upon trillions of planets out there that can support life Also. The earth doesn't "circle" perfectly. It's elliptical. I don't believe in the impossible. I believe in the improbable. Like you said... I'm crazy.
TianSan 1 year ago
@thorsnose i apologise,,,i thought you had a chance to see the truth,,,you are just evil and deluded by satan,,many things are happening now you are not looking,,,you concept of god is so small...who do you think made all this,,,santa claus......you are the god of your world,,,im glad i dont live in your world,,,,you are not a athiest you are a luciferian,,,,,merry christmas
thorsnose 1 year ago
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TianSan 1 year ago
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TianSan 1 year ago
@thorsnose right I'm evil. That's why I'm out there murdering and raping people right? Who made all this? Why do you think it's a who? I'm so, crazy that I keep asking what made this, instead of asking who? I'm glad you don't live in my world, as I am glad I don't live in yours. If you consider yourself sane, then I am glad to consider myself insane in your eyes. I don't know why you would say I am the God of my world. You have to define what God means. I exist, god does not. Contradictory.
TianSan 1 year ago
@thorsnose
I like how you abuse of ",,," and "...". Are you sure you dont follow satan? What a shame,,,,
Nicolasduca 1 year ago
maybe i will take the high moral ground,,,,,,ha ha comments are like garbage,,,they never leave the dump
thorsnose 1 year ago
the pope says birth control is ok,,,can i have your picture,,,it really melts a hard on,,ha ha ha
thorsnose 1 year ago
right on, spong is pretty cool
xd1rtx 1 year ago
spong is a satanist,,,,and not far removed from the average athiests,,please do not call that demonic bullshit artist a christian,,,,get a veri chip its the mark of the beast 666 prince charles is the anti christ,,and the eu is babelon...all predicted in the last days,,,so when you get the chip in your hand you will be doomed to eternity in hell,,,,you know the place you dont believe in
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose
gimme ur address and i'll send you a tin foil hat, in case you don't have one already you fukn loon!!!!!
xd1rtx 1 year ago
@xd1rtx you should go to my church, you would fit in fine,,,when they chip you tell satan hello,,,and get a foil mask,,i noticed most athiesys are butt ugly,,must be a form of punishment from GOD,,Wish you had a life instead of the endless videos that attack really nice people,,.and please do not reproduce,,,,your attacks serve satan only,,,i read the end of the book,,,,he loses,,,fire lake awaits you
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose
thanks loon, i appreciate all the really batshit crazy examples you are putting forth for christandom,,, oops i mean christian kingdom, i almost forgot the average IQ of you morons... you've never seen my face, so you wouldn't know if i was ugly, i have kids and i've never made a video that attacked anyone,,, way to do your homework and research the person you are talking shit on,,, dumbass!!!
xd1rtx 1 year ago
@xd1rtx cool thanks for no video,,and just haveing kids means nothing,,you just forgot to abort them,,you and the test tube dad were busy that day,,use a condom next time..cant wait to see you face the antichrist,,he will kill anyone who doesnt worship him as god,,so theres a good chance you will tell him hes a loon,,then you will be killed as well as all the christian loons,,,hell is real and ready for your entire loony family,,enjoy the lake of fire,,,there are no unbelievers in hell
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose
you are delusional, you say i'm ugly but u haven't even seen me, you say you wish i had a life instead of endless vids that attack nice people, yet i've never made a video attacking anyone, you say please don't reproduce, but it clearly says on my page that i am a father, and i have 2 videos with my son in them, you say me and the test tube dad were to busy to abort my kids, yet i am a male, no one will ever take you seriously, you are a complete waste,,,, have a nice day, asshat
xd1rtx 1 year ago
@xd1rtx well xf1 was refering to the atheists who put up crap on youtube,,,i dont care about you,,dont know you ,dont want to,,as for kids who cares,,im sure they are clones of you and your next dates...no one take you seriously ...so hope you move to saudia arabia where you came from ,,,merry christmas
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose
thats right, you dont know me, even tho you pretended to for about 2500 characters on this page,, hope i move to saudia arabia where i came from? do you even read this shit as u r typing or do your fingers just move without you even giving yourself a chance to form a thaught? i hope in the limited amount of time you have left on this planet, that is if your page is correct and you are 56, that you take a moment to knock the dust off that gelatinous mound of shit you call a brain,,
xd1rtx 1 year ago
@thorsnose your funny,,,and so typical,,,,so filled with your own bullshit...you are a legend in your own mind...too bad nobody else can see the GOD like creature that you are,,,youtube is so full of people just like you,,i would prefer death to living around ass ole sss like you...sodem and gamorra will rise up on judgement day and throw stones at you...your brain is like a bowling ball and the holes are full of dog shit
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose So are you admitting that your God is an unloving tyrannical Monster and that you are his little narcissistic tool that takes delight in the suffering of others?
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
@NightHawkBomber001 get a verichip and worship prince charles of wales,,,i realise you dont have a GOD of your own,,,except possably yourself,,,but the end is near,,,,the beast will kill as many christians as he can,,,,as for me im just a old man who likes to piss off idiots like you,,,in this modern culture i have no value and nothing to lose by telling people like you that you are heading for hell,,,i dont make the rules or enforce them,,,Satan is the GOD of this world he created death hes u
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose I’ll take that as a yes then. Very well I want no part of your bigoted hateful unloving unjust beliefs. You’ve admitted that you are an old man who gets his kicks from telling people they are going to suffer for eternity. You’ve made some rather extreme assumptions about me that have no basis in fact (You’ve assumed my religious view is atheistic). I’ve actually read you bible in great detail. Based on your words I follow it better than you do.
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
@NightHawkBomber001 sure your god and i cant spell bigotry ha ha rule number 1 on the net is the other guy is evil....to me you are the other guy
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose rule number 1? Only in a narrow minded black and white world ruled by Dogma. This is not such a world
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
@thorsnose Your Bigotry and insults have failed to get a rouse out of me. Now you could learn from this and be more mature but odds are your going to go and insult the next person you see.
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
@thorsnose "i realise you don't have a GOD of your own,,,except possably yourself" Well the funny thing is, what is more humancentric than to believe that the all powerfull being created us, in his image. I personally find it weird that he created this HUGE universe, and created an insignificant planet, and then made us in his image, and left. I find it alot less humancentric to believe that natural mechanisms brought us forth through 3 billion years of evolution - so in noones image
BjornSeverinLarsen 1 year ago
@NightHawkBomber001 your funny man,,,no body cares what we think,,,we just swap insults,,,,isnt it convieniant that all your problems are caused by me??i dont kill,,bomb,,,or create inflation,,,im just keeping a computer warm....try to find a real enemy...im just a comedian
thorsnose 1 year ago
@thorsnose Insults? I can see yours, where are mine? I haven’t blamed you from my problems. I haven’t called you an enemy. I’ve satiated an observation. Your trying to cause conflict which is against the teachings of your Christ. People like you try to make enemies
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
Good video but you might want to edit interuptions out! Thanks for sharing!
99minerkc 1 year ago
@Oreceo ahh makes sense now, thankyou for the clarification Oreceo
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
@Oreceo I think anyone who aspires to be anything that stretches who they are as a person is a challenge. Does that mean we disqualify them from the annotation they try to aspire to? A martial artist is still considered a "martial artist" from the very first day they step into training....even if they don't know all the moves yet or haven't perfected them.
Yes some call themselves Christian but don't strive towards the goal of fully being as Christ was.
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
@Oreceo to be completely honest "Christianity" is post Old Testament....hence when "Christ" came to earth. Like any people who respect and are warned of past events, we read OT to know what not to repeat unless we become careless plus there are mant things still observed as "rule" (10 com.). The foundations of Jesus's teachings did include much of Judeo scripture but its pretty easy to know what "common practice" is now compared to then. Christianity lets us understand sin...forgiveness.
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
I don't see the bishop as a christian, he is a different species ...
paperfreeck 1 year ago
I feel sorry for your kid.
hunnybunch16 1 year ago
@Oreceo were did u get those resources?
Applefreak52 1 year ago
your really good at conforming to a religion! nice job!
Applefreak52 1 year ago
Just seen Spong - very impressed. What a lovely guy!
jazzx251 1 year ago
atheist lady ,you will burn in hell for eternity, go to hell all atheists around the world, no escape and mercy judgment day , hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell,l hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hellhell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell
pinoypreacher2012 1 year ago
@pinoypreacher2012 I would happily live in hell as long as I don't have to share it with people like you.
arcanacelestia 1 year ago
@pinoypreacher2012 hahaha, youre silly. :D
beaster29 1 year ago
@pinoypreacher2012 - hell is a creation of the church.
HallowsEve2010 1 year ago
It doesn't sound like this Bishop is...what they would call..." Christian" ....and they'll probably oust him eventually. Thanks for sharing this. Well done!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Bah, that doesnt matter. Every christian thinks theyve got the authority to determine who else is or is not a christian, or "true christian" anyways haha. Silly people.
beaster29 1 year ago
I consider myself an atheistic Christian mostly because of Spong. Before him, I was just an atheist.
35starfish 1 year ago
@35starfish
"Christian Humanist" is the correct term.
jazzx251 1 year ago
@jazzx251 I am now a member of a local Unitarian Church and still an atheist. I am not crazy about the word Humanist because it is easy to misinterpret, I do hear it quite a bit however. If you enjoy Spong, you might also check out Marcus Borg. I am reading 'Reading the Bible Again for the First Time' and although he is a little mean to atheists, I find his writing informative and wonderful.
35starfish 1 year ago
a practical atheist is your favorite Christian... what a surprise
kdurston1 1 year ago
@kdurston1 So John Spong is an Atheists? I thought he was talking a lot of sense for a clergyman, now I know why.
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
A practical atheist is a theological term for people who say they are believers but live and act out their faith as if there is no God. But realistically, he does not make any sense either to atheism or Christianity. Atheism because if God is just the experience of love, why worship Him? If God is disinterested in being honest in revealing Himself, how can we know anything about Him. so on either side of the fence Sprong makes no sense.
kdurston1 1 year ago
@kdurston1 I guess that Spong isn't really worshiping God at all. To me he is acknowledging that God is the love and life force within us, and he is paying tribute to God by using that as best we can. I guess he calls himself a Christian as he considers Jesus to have been a important focal point and messenger for God. As an Atheist, I can say that if a God goes exists, Spong's God is something I could make sense of. However, I can see that his views would not go down well with many Christians.
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
Christ's true teachings:
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
1 John 4:8 God is Love.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
That's all the bible I need.
eastariel 2 years ago 2
"Due to the completion of an internal review, we have thus rejected your atheist membership card and any claims to reasoning, which you might have accrued through your time here with us" - The Atheist, Liberal, Communist, and God-Hating Secret Organization now residing in Pat Robertson's mind tormenting him with gay pleasure.
bigbuse87 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing. Though I may have grown up on the opposite end of the Atheistic-Christian spectrum as you, I'm grateful for voices like Bishop Spong's which provide a fair meeting ground for curious, open minds like yours (and I hope, mine, too). I'm all chips in the game for his concept of a new, developing humanity; knowing full well (to complete the metaphor) that the cards in my hand may not win me the game.
Oh, and I hope the trick your daughter wanted to show you was a good one!
jbondageify 2 years ago
Rev Sprong is a good example of what Gandhi was talking about when he said: "If only your christians were more like your Christ". Nuff said.
psychopicasso 2 years ago
do you hate religion or do you just hate Christianity. to me it seems like atheists just hate Christianity
SeAn9062619 2 years ago
I agree. I would join Spong's church if I decided to become a Christian. I have read his book "Why Christianity Must Change or Die", a good read by the way, and I am reading his book "Jesus for the Non-Religious". I am convinced that Jesus very likely existed but not the way the church wants us to think. Before Spong I thought noghing good could come out of Christianity but now I want to join his movement to make change for the good of humanity. I hope Spong's ideas bring forth good change.
auproma 2 years ago
As an athiest myself, I find the Reverend Sprong far more palpable than the majority of Christians, or at least the more vocal fundamentalists, who claim to be the voice of God on earth. Perhaps they'll take my atheist card away from me too. LOL Another Christian author I like is Tom Harpur, though I'm willing to bet there are many who would deem him a heretic. But that label just causes me to like him even more.
HomoDefiantz 2 years ago
Yes i have just found Shelby spong, just bought a book he wrote "Why christianity must change or die", still reading it. I would never of listened to him while i was a Christian. He is too weak for Christians by and large.
cjunk351 2 years ago
I don't like Pat Robertson either. But sorry Spong is not a Christian. He threw any semblance of Biblical doctrine or even arguable Christianity out a very long time ago.
Example ?
The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed. ~ John Shelby Spong
There are many more examples but that is a fail right there. If you reject Christ's sacrafice on the cross for our sins, you're not a Christian.
Keruaran 2 years ago
The atonement is not the only theory of the cross which makes you a Christian. The transactional view of the cross is a very medieval concept of an angry God, placated by a human sacrifice...I see the cross as the expression of God's love for us and Christ's victory over death. I am still a Christian. So is John Spong.
jdw1980 2 years ago
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures" ~ 1st Corinthians 15:3-4.
Keruaran 2 years ago
But that passage does not imply atonement. It doesn't necessarily mean died so that we could be absolved of our sins. On the other end of the spectrum it could mean died "by" our sins, ie. our sins caused him to die. There are other possible meanings of course. The theology is not as cut-and-dry as it is made out to be nowadays.
IAMED2 2 years ago
I don't know how you can say, "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures", in your words, "does not imply atonement". I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. You can make silly statements or speculate on what the text clearly does not say all you like, that wont miraculously turn your words into anything that resembles a sound exegesis of the text.
Keruaran 2 years ago
And you can say that all you want, but you're still not paying any attention to the text. You're relying on your background, what people have said it means. You can say I'm being ridiculous all you want, but I have Greek to back me up. It's clear in English too; "died for our sins" can mean many things! Also, Jesus spoke out against sacrifice, and Deuteronomy 12:31 forbids human sacrifice.
IAMED2 2 years ago
The passage is clear. You are pulling something out of the passage that simply isn't there and you are speculating upon what simply isn't there. It *is* that simple.
Keruaran 2 years ago
Except you're ignoring that I have linguistically valid alternate interpretation and you're providing no justification for your interpretation.
IAMED2 2 years ago
No, I'm ignoring you.
You have no "linguistically valid alternate interpretation", you are offering nothing but the most extraordinary silliness that would just about insult the intelligence of Forrest Gump.
Go play Monty Pythonesque games with someone who is interested in playing "lets be mind numbingly stupid" along with you.
Because there's not much hope you will get a linguistic clue.
Keruaran 2 years ago
Well, you seem to be ignoring it based on your own personal thoughts, not on any sort of linguistic examination of your own. Interesting that you would base your faith on a certain translation of a text with no consideration for the text in its original language. That seems silly to me, personally, not the other way around...
IAMED2 2 years ago
the cross is a barbaric idea used by a primative culture to torture and kill people, his idea is valid a valid christian idea, just because its heretic doesnt mean its not christian. like the demiurge or w/e they call it lol.
TheHellBound666 2 years ago
"just because its heretic doesnt mean its not christian"
Yeah sure, and just because its coffee doesn't mean its not tea right ?
You win this weeks dumbest comment of the week award.
Keruaran 2 years ago
says the person who has no clue what the word heretic means XD. Heretic (or "free thinker") doesn't mean non-christian, it means the non mainstream gnostic/mystic sects of christianity.
TheHellBound666 2 years ago
Enjoy your stupidity.
Keruaran 2 years ago
ty for you last gasp of an argument against what I've said, have a great day.
TheHellBound666 2 years ago
You haven't said anything intelligent enough to warrant any serious response.
Keruaran 2 years ago
then why respond at all? if you don't believe my statement there is the all mighty dictionary that will clarify that heretic means free thinker :) the church persecuted the christian gnostics (arguably the first christians) who were heretics, even now christian gnostics/mystics are considered heretics, but the term is more accepted by the heretics since there isnt anything wrong with having free thought.
TheHellBound666 2 years ago
Heretics are those who go against a churches doctrine, like Galileo , or Copernicus, or those nasty witches in Salem. Its not by definitio anti christian. It's just a label given by brainless stiffs that prop up heirachical religious institutions.
cwegers1 2 years ago
He's my favourite Christian, too. Bishope Gene Robinson is also very inspiring-the prayer he used as an invocation for the inaugural event is good reading and thought provoking for people of faith and atheists alike.
gilraen789 3 years ago
I take no offense that an atheist dislikes true Christians. I would expect no less.
If someone denies the deity of Jesus, and His resurrection, the Bible says they're not Christians, but antichrist.
bsp256 3 years ago
Nope, your delusional doctrines are anti christian.
shunyotube 2 years ago
Thanks for the gripping refutation of my statement.
I hold the same doctrines as Peter, Paul and Jesus. Are they anti-Christian?
Are you born again?
bsp256 2 years ago
Your right, that was a cheap shot, especially since I'm not Christian. I just kinda would like to think Christianity = kindness, peace, acceptance and nice things like Jesus sounds like He's into in some parts of the Gospels.
shunyotube 2 years ago
You can experience infinite mercy, grace and love from Jesus, or you can experience wrath.
Jesus said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."
Jesus performed the greatest act of love, and your response should be repentance from your sin and faith in Him.
bsp256 2 years ago
I think this belittles the many great folks who've died on behalf of others. Let alone that it is absurd to believe God is bound by some law of death in order to not damn someone to hell. Think of how silly and absurd that is. You're infected with a mental virus that uses fear to keep you holding on to it and spreading it. And it gives you an image of an arbitrary, immature god that you have to grovel to so he won't do the most evil things imaginable to you.
shunyotube 2 years ago
How does that belittle those who've given their lives? They performed the greatest act of love.
I think you don't understand justice. Here's a good definition for you: Justice means punishing the guilty, and making sure the innocent go free. If there are cases where a judge let guilty criminals go free, or punished the innocent, then he's not just. If there is a God, don't you believe He's just?
Are you guilty of anything? What are you going to do about your sin?
bsp256 2 years ago
I only say that because you make it sound like He's the only one who'd done it. But being unjustly murdered doesn't justify anyone. As for your idea of God's justice, eternal hell fire for some of those amazingly arbitrary transgressions found in the bible is unimaginably unjust. No sin fits that punishment. I think this is obvious and pretending to not see it seems disingenuous.
shunyotube 2 years ago
As for my sins, I try to do as little as possible and ask forgiveness and don't worry about mixing foods, etc. I don't use scriptures to justify my prejudice, either. Don't know if you do, but that would fit the pattern of most "born agains."
shunyotube 2 years ago
Why so judgmental and intolerant towards born-againers?
If a criminal standing before the judge says, "I try to do as little as possible and ask forgiveness." Will the judge let him go? No, justice must be served.
If you've lied, you've broken God's law, and just like a guilty criminal, you must be punished. If your excuse works, God is unjust for not punishing sin.
Maybe you have a different definition of justice. What is your definition?
bsp256 2 years ago
If God does indeed punish sin as you suggest, then he is basically punishing himself. Think about it.
TheFragile89 2 years ago
I don't get it. Maybe you can explain that a little further.
What do you believe happened to Hitler? If God doesn't punish him, does that mean he's in heaven?
Thanks.
bsp256 2 years ago
No Hitler isn't in heaven. There is no reason for a heaven. If hell existed (which it doesn't in my opinion) he would only go there for a limited number of years (simple ratios) not infinity, because that's ludicrous, and nobody can comprehend that length of time. If God punishes sin, he is punishing his own creations which he made 100% prone to mistakes and error.
TheFragile89 2 years ago
It's kind of like a coach kicking one of his best basketball players off the team, just because he had 1 lousy night where he got more fouls than points, when they both know that you can't always play a great game of basketball because everyone has their off games.
TheFragile89 2 years ago
Because you referred to this guy a "anti-christ" and because they usually are pushing for legislation of intolerance and blind themselves from evidence to the contrary of their tribal superstition.
I wouldn't tell the judge someone else was punished who didn't do it, so let me go. I'd expect reasonably fitting justice. But maybe it's already forgiven. I don't know. I just know what is absurd.
shunyotube 2 years ago
My response to bps256 was misplaced as a new response.
shunyotube 2 years ago
I'm a follower of Christ and I generally agree with Spong!
I see many live because hunger for heaven or fear of hell, not love towards God, not love towards mankind...
ascendrian 3 years ago
Spong isn't a Christian - try again. :)
rj141 3 years ago
Wrong. He's not your kind of Christian, perhaps, but you don't get to decide who gets in the club. Unless, maybe, you're God?
ParkerAllen2 3 years ago
Christianity is a set of beliefs prescribed by the Bible, the written word of God. There are certain truths one must believe to be a Christian:
1. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
2. God created the heavens and the earth.
3. Jesus was conceived by the virgin, Mary.
4. Jesus died and was resurrected as a wrath-removing sacrifice for the sins of all who believe.
5. Jesus established a universal Church, by His Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead.
rj141 3 years ago
Spong doesn't believe these things. He claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe what Christians believe. It's a matter of "a religion believes x,y, and z. If you don't believe x,y, and z then your religion is something different."
Such is the case with Spong. He claims to be a Christian but really subscribes to a different religion that is loosely (I mean very loosely) based on Christianity.
I think even an Atheist can see how he doesn't believe what Christians believe.
rj141 3 years ago
Fine. But then I hope you're not one of those hypocrites who claims this country was founded by Christians. By your narrow definition you would also have to consider many of the founding fathers non-Christians, starting with Thomas Jefferson who did not believe that Christ was divine or in any of his supposed miracles.
ParkerAllen2 3 years ago
Who are you to say what "truths" one must believe in to be a "christian"? Honestly, that sounds more catholic than christian. He believes in Jesus, and has a "personal" relationship with him. Religion is just bueraucracy between us and god.
wolfborn10 3 years ago
By the creeds you choose to believe are true. It doesn't make them true.
shunyotube 2 years ago
The only people not cool with Spong are fundies, and literalist who are far more lost than any athiest or secular person I have ever known. Go Spong!
vixter1967 3 years ago 6
WHOA, this guy Spong is right on the money!! I'll have to check out his YT vids.
Anyway, as one who believes in God, but, not what man teaches about God, usually to gain power & influence over others, I don't agree w/ athetism, but, I ADMIRE it b/c they are, sometimes, the ONLY people DEAMNDING an UNFLINCHING investigation into religious dogma & the harm that it's done to humanity since its inception. I notice that the most religious people are usually the least spiritual...and vice versa.
StephanAOTTO1 3 years ago
Fair and unbalanced? Do you mean unbiased? Good on you for offering comment. John Shelby Spong helps me balance my life. It's great to know others share in the enlightenment.
LeahCepukas 3 years ago
We are all equally granted freedom of speech no matter who we are or what we believe. Are you saying that you have the right to say what you think but people like Pat Robertson and others like him don't? That's REVERSE INTOLERANCE and reverse "stripping people of their rights". Should people not have the right to voice their opinions just because you don't agree with their views? That's scary.
mzklover 3 years ago
If Sponge was a REAL Christian, no atheist would "love him". He doesn't represent me and I am a Real Christian. I've done the research on Him and He's NOT Christian. His teachings are not Biblical. He distorts the Bible and I know for a fact that atheists love that. No wonder he's loved by folks who don't love God and say there isn't one.
sldeyo 3 years ago
Sounds more Atheist than Christian.
jcrebel18 3 years ago
Spong is not Christian. Don't be deceived.
sldeyo 3 years ago
Spong is Christian.Don't be ignorant.
confluential 3 years ago
Spong is cool with me
Hierophant2 3 years ago
For someone who says religion doesn't make any sense to her,
she doesn't make any sense here as well..
ChevyHighPerformance 3 years ago
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John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
conservativekid18 3 years ago
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eternal life.... SUCK MY DICK. IDIOT!
Dimitrij90 3 years ago
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John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
conservativekid18 3 years ago
Religion is always in the control business fueled by fear and guilt. Spong helped me to understand a better way.
Jexka007 3 years ago
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Spong is an idiot. He's nothing but an athiest pretending to be a Christian. He believes nothing.
ALuimes 3 years ago
Your anger has fear written all over it.
ParkerAllen2 3 years ago
I agree with a good bit of what Spong says but he seems stuck in the period of Enlightenment.
daniel01141975 3 years ago
Thanks for posting. Spong was my Bishop growing up... he confirmed me when I was 13 (I'm now 36). I've since drifted from the church and organized religion (perhaps I'll find the right church for me one day)... due to the hypocricy I see in much of the teachings. However, Spong has been one of the few that have gotten through to me... that I still can be a modern, scientific thinker and a Christian at the same time.
Spong has saved countless souls from rejecting Christianity. A great man!
njcactus 3 years ago
I love Spong too. He introduces rationality to the interpretations of what the people from the first century were trying to teach. I was a member of the Church of Alumni but after listening to him I am back! He is so logical.
Jexka007 3 years ago
I've heard about this guy, but never got around to reading him.
I share his same beliefs. The Christian message... well... it sucks. The idea that humans are so evil, deserving eternal torture, and that god is only going to save those who believe is a cold depressing message. Uh, sorry, but I don't see it as act of divine mercy. A serial killer deciding to spare a few victims? Perhaps, but not the most merciful being in the universe.
jackbauer6543 4 years ago 3
Try the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus! I am a Red Letter Christian! What Jesus taught makes sense...even today! Study science and philosophy, but continue to study the words of Jesus and make an integration rather than a segregation. WWSS (What Would Spong Say?)
redletterchurch 4 years ago
I like Spong as well.
SJP3793 4 years ago
Agree completely. Spong is an atheist's best friend from the 'other side'. He is one of the few christians I deeply respect. The current archbishop of cantebury is also one of the 'good' guys.
lostn65 4 years ago
Rowan Williams??? Hoo boy. I hate using the word "Raca" against him (considering the context that Jesus put it in when He was quoted in Scripture) but it fits Williams to a "T".
IMO, David Cloud isn't a much of a better alternative, but I'll take him anyday over Spong.
PTWTMinistries 4 years ago
I don't know who you or your spiritual journey thus far but you are so right on about Bishop Spong and I thank you for taking the time to post your articulate endorsement of him. I hope it has led other captives of christianity to seek the freedom and pure air of skepticism and free thought.
ao666777 4 years ago 3
Thanks for your kind words!
FairandUnbalanced 4 years ago
nobody cares who that atheist's favorite Christian is
sharpezor 4 years ago
I do. She is very sincere and articulate. Good for her and I fully agree with her: Spong is awesome.
ao666777 4 years ago
HEY HEY HEY PEOPLE, Lets not forget about the AGNOSTICS!!!! And mam i think u'd fit more with the Agnostics. Rather than the crazy ass atheists and their theory of appearing out of nowhere ( "BIG BANG", where did the energy for that event come from, if nothing existed??), or religion who demands life to be lived in a certain way. Remember there needs to be a balance = Agnosticism
nietsmmar2 4 years ago
Agnosticism, diesm, and liberal Christianity are good middle grounds. Something to believe in beyond our knowlage, but not assuming you have all the answers and not devoting your entire life to it.
jackbauer6543 4 years ago
"Agnosticism, diesm [sic], and liberal Christianity are good middle grounds"
They are tepid and timid.
neothomist1275 3 years ago
Amen to that!
DaniOcean 3 years ago
Spong is not a threat to me. He does not hold my eternal security in balance. As it is, I have never been a part of his flock. However, he and the rest of us will have to give an account to Almighty God for what we have done with our lives -- whether we are sinners or we are sinners saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ our Lord.
crosschecking 4 years ago
what?
heimegut 4 years ago
sorry to tell you... but spong is not a christian. He rejects the basic premise of christianity. Just because he has the title of bishop and professes to be a christain does not mean he has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
klhall2 4 years ago
You are a fundy. Therefore it is you who determines who is or isn't.
craggles80 4 years ago