Its the M4 design that's flawed they were not even supposed to be our riffles we designed them for the United Arab Emirates. the riffle is supposed to have a full length gas system. its just wrong.
Another modification to Mr. Soner's design is the piston drive. The piston drive is a solution to a non-existance problem to his design. It actually cause more problems than solves. You have carrier tilt that is non-existant in the gas system. The bolt carrier drags and damages the buffer tube and lower receiver as well as the upper receiver. There are many videos that show how superior the piston drive is the gas but they are all staged. Just study the information and you will find the truth.
this is the reason why i go with a midlengh gas system since the carbine length puts more stress on the gun since the gas return is to fast. which will lead to future problems.
I've never seen anyone in the Army use "burst" fire on their M4, with the exception of some really shitty situations where we had a guy down and needed a lot of suppression. Very rare though. The auto function of an m16 was developed at a time when we had no Squad Automatic Weapons. Essentially, everyone had a S.A.W. with a fully automatic M16. With the advent of the M249, the M16A2 designers only wanted semi on the selector but were forced to atleast put "burst". *REF: "Saga of the M16"
My friend bought 3 gas piston ARs, all were way over $2000 and each one of them had jams and parts break. The original full length system is fine, you just need a quality bolt like Colt or LMT.
@semiautoriflelover1 Colt had it down to a science.. another reason why I would only own a 20" milspec. Colt was the shit, they had all that experience bc of that military contract.. they had millions of M-16s under thier belt, they saw every possible problem you could have over the decades and they addressed them one by one. You cant beat that. Its all knowledge of metallurgy, if you dont know metal, you aint got shit. You got something just SHAPED like a M-16 and thats it.
damn u guys get gas guns im in the Marines and we only get DI guns the only problems ive had are from out of tune buffer springs which cause jams and the shity mags the armory gives us that cause double feeds
@Zaku186 The army is not issued piston rifles (if that's what you mean by "gas"). We get the same stuff as you guys except almost all of our infantry gets M4's instead of M16's. I understand that you guys usually get M16A4's, I may be mistaken though. But no, we get DI rifles just the same as you.
But, I have to disagree that the scope, or any "cheap" additions I added affected the bolt in any way. The last time I checked...optics never come into contact with the bolt.. All of the interior parts are mil-spec. It wasn't crappy parts, it's a crappy design. Thank you, Mr. Stoner.
@How2Tactical Stoner designed a 20" rifle AR15, with M4 you have more heat and pressure, parts wear twice as fast. Let me know what rifle is this light weight and as accurate for the same price. ACR, nope junk and weighs 8lbs and costs $2000 filled with issues. Fn Scar is nice but $2500. If bolts breaking all the time was an issue I think after 20 years of firing my 17 different ARs over those years I would have broken one. I've seen parts break on many different guns, shit happens.
@How2Tactical The M4 design was not his design. Mr. Stoner designed the M16 with a 20" barrel with a longer gas system. The M4 has a shorter gas tube which produces higher pressure and puts more stress on the BCG. That is why when they first made CAR's in Vietnam the barrels were shortened to the front sight base and not the gas system. It's when "they" deviated from Eugene Stoner's design did they start to have problems. Now they have to put M4 cuts into barrel nut/receiver to feed properly.
@SlayerofFiction Yes, you are correct that Stoner's design was originally for the .308 which was the AR-10 back in mid 1950's. But it is still Eugene Stoner design regardless if it was for the .308 or .223. What is unfortunate is "they" have bastardized Stoner's design and then blame the problems on his design. Stoner's design was superior. Even Mikhail Kalashnikov stated that Eugene Stoner was a genius. By saying this Mikhail Kalashnikov was putting Eugene Stoner above himself.
@How2Tactical: Isn't it AMAZING how disconnected from reality some of these guys can be..? Everyone on the PLANET knows the AR design has problems, it always has and always will. But they like to pretend that it doesn't for no other reason than it is their preferred carbine. I particularly like how this dope relates your red dot scope in ANY WAY to a reason that a design flaw in the bolt caused a breakage. I would say they are unbelievable, but I have learned better.
@shawnmlynch the stoner design is a great rifle with a reputation from ignorant people who are Ill Informed. The original jam problems were do to the ammunition, not the rifle itself, it is to note that it was the preferred weapon of SOG in Vietnam.
@SlayerofFiction This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. The "ammunition" problems are due to the design flaws. The platform can not cycle particular types of ammo effectively which is NOT the ammo's fault when most other platforms can cycle it. The design flaws are in the gas system polluting the upper and cam pin dragging on the inside of the upper. When these two problems are replaced with a gas piston and rolling cam pin the AR's reliability is up with the best.
@shawnmlynch No an Ar is a tighter spec weapon than most "battle rifles" in the world, giving up is some reliablity which is not an issue provided it is cleaned (why special opps do not have the problem your average dumb ass grunt does) maintained and proper ammition used. What you gain is a more effective overall weapon with greater accuracy thus a higher percentage of hits and thus more effect on the bad guys.
@SlayerofFiction Even a modern AR with a FAIL ZERO bolt and regular cleaning, the platform WILL fail without question. And this coming from two folks who damn near worship the AR platform. You can blame it on the mags the ammo or gremlins for all I care, the original design is FLAWED.
I had the same thing happen to me in Afghanistan. Nothing pisses you off more than a broken bolt (bad extractor). I would like to point out too that its not an issue with going full-auto either. We train for accuracy in semi-auto and its happened to me. Just an opportunity to practice your quick-reaction drills.
@ATLrapboy Yeah, there is really no reason why this couldn't happen on a piston driven AR as well. I hate when people with no actual knowledge of weapons post stuff like this. Their entire knowledge base comes from Youtube and Future Weapons re-runs. The HK416, LWRC M6, ect. use the exact same bolt design as the original M16. Perhaps they use better materials but it's the same basic design.
@jah2mail I can't speak for AA and LMT, but LWRC does do something slightly different. They use a non-mil spec bolt with a whale tail extractor. The design is tougher, but it can still break. The lugs can still crack, the bolt face itself can still crack, ect. It just fixes the number one cause of bolt problems, broken extractors.
@Nater245689 You said in your first comment that lwrc "use the exact same bolt design as the original M16." I've never heard the term "whale tail" before, but their bolt is a milspec bolt (dimensionally, which means you can use any other milspec bolt as a replacement), the "whale tail" is an extractor with two springs instead of one, LMT has a version with two springs as well.
Before and after every use. ARs like to fire wet, so you should be in the habit of oiling it regularly as well. This was caused by accelerated gas-port erosion, not a dirty weapon.
@How2Tactical FYI the gas system has nothing to do with a bolt failing, The weapon is actually very durable over all. The gas system merely pushes the bolt back thus chambering a round. You more than likely were using either hot loads (.223 firearm using .556 rounds?) or the most likely had a bad tempered bolt. Freak thing is all.
Its the M4 design that's flawed they were not even supposed to be our riffles we designed them for the United Arab Emirates. the riffle is supposed to have a full length gas system. its just wrong.
Zaku186 2 weeks ago
Another modification to Mr. Soner's design is the piston drive. The piston drive is a solution to a non-existance problem to his design. It actually cause more problems than solves. You have carrier tilt that is non-existant in the gas system. The bolt carrier drags and damages the buffer tube and lower receiver as well as the upper receiver. There are many videos that show how superior the piston drive is the gas but they are all staged. Just study the information and you will find the truth.
fffreddie 3 months ago
this is the reason why i go with a midlengh gas system since the carbine length puts more stress on the gun since the gas return is to fast. which will lead to future problems.
queensofthestonage4 4 months ago
I've never seen anyone in the Army use "burst" fire on their M4, with the exception of some really shitty situations where we had a guy down and needed a lot of suppression. Very rare though. The auto function of an m16 was developed at a time when we had no Squad Automatic Weapons. Essentially, everyone had a S.A.W. with a fully automatic M16. With the advent of the M249, the M16A2 designers only wanted semi on the selector but were forced to atleast put "burst". *REF: "Saga of the M16"
Strelnikov10 4 months ago
My friend bought 3 gas piston ARs, all were way over $2000 and each one of them had jams and parts break. The original full length system is fine, you just need a quality bolt like Colt or LMT.
semiautoriflelover1 4 months ago 2
@semiautoriflelover1 Colt had it down to a science.. another reason why I would only own a 20" milspec. Colt was the shit, they had all that experience bc of that military contract.. they had millions of M-16s under thier belt, they saw every possible problem you could have over the decades and they addressed them one by one. You cant beat that. Its all knowledge of metallurgy, if you dont know metal, you aint got shit. You got something just SHAPED like a M-16 and thats it.
Gloomshadow100 4 months ago
I fired my M4 clone semi auto 4700 rounds and my quality bolt never broke.
semiautoriflelover1 4 months ago
You shooting cheap, steel-cased Russian ammo?
jdessell 5 months ago
your dead or your partner is or worse you both are
TheBgcheez 5 months ago
0:47 Dead man's rifle with an inefficient operator
nice training sesh tho
krossF 5 months ago
wait is ur riffle gas piston or di?
Zaku186 5 months ago
damn u guys get gas guns im in the Marines and we only get DI guns the only problems ive had are from out of tune buffer springs which cause jams and the shity mags the armory gives us that cause double feeds
Zaku186 5 months ago
@Zaku186 The army is not issued piston rifles (if that's what you mean by "gas"). We get the same stuff as you guys except almost all of our infantry gets M4's instead of M16's. I understand that you guys usually get M16A4's, I may be mistaken though. But no, we get DI rifles just the same as you.
Strelnikov10 4 months ago
there goes like $600...
TieDyeFTW 8 months ago
LWRC end of story.
drewpert15 10 months ago
Horrible job on the bump fire...
And the bolt didnt break because of the gas system. It broke because you used some cheap shit on your gun... like that POS BSA redot on your scope.
ddn79 1 year ago
@ddn79 100% true about the bump fire!
But, I have to disagree that the scope, or any "cheap" additions I added affected the bolt in any way. The last time I checked...optics never come into contact with the bolt.. All of the interior parts are mil-spec. It wasn't crappy parts, it's a crappy design. Thank you, Mr. Stoner.
How2Tactical 7 months ago 3
@How2Tactical Stoner designed a 20" rifle AR15, with M4 you have more heat and pressure, parts wear twice as fast. Let me know what rifle is this light weight and as accurate for the same price. ACR, nope junk and weighs 8lbs and costs $2000 filled with issues. Fn Scar is nice but $2500. If bolts breaking all the time was an issue I think after 20 years of firing my 17 different ARs over those years I would have broken one. I've seen parts break on many different guns, shit happens.
semiautoriflelover1 4 months ago
@How2Tactical The M4 design was not his design. Mr. Stoner designed the M16 with a 20" barrel with a longer gas system. The M4 has a shorter gas tube which produces higher pressure and puts more stress on the BCG. That is why when they first made CAR's in Vietnam the barrels were shortened to the front sight base and not the gas system. It's when "they" deviated from Eugene Stoner's design did they start to have problems. Now they have to put M4 cuts into barrel nut/receiver to feed properly.
fffreddie 3 months ago
@fffreddie Stoners Design was originally for the .308 not the .223 just so you have your facts straight.
SlayerofFiction 2 weeks ago
@SlayerofFiction Yes, you are correct that Stoner's design was originally for the .308 which was the AR-10 back in mid 1950's. But it is still Eugene Stoner design regardless if it was for the .308 or .223. What is unfortunate is "they" have bastardized Stoner's design and then blame the problems on his design. Stoner's design was superior. Even Mikhail Kalashnikov stated that Eugene Stoner was a genius. By saying this Mikhail Kalashnikov was putting Eugene Stoner above himself.
fffreddie 2 weeks ago
@How2Tactical umm excuse me if i misheard but did you say eugines design was crappy?
Vexzm 3 months ago
@How2Tactical: Isn't it AMAZING how disconnected from reality some of these guys can be..? Everyone on the PLANET knows the AR design has problems, it always has and always will. But they like to pretend that it doesn't for no other reason than it is their preferred carbine. I particularly like how this dope relates your red dot scope in ANY WAY to a reason that a design flaw in the bolt caused a breakage. I would say they are unbelievable, but I have learned better.
shawnmlynch 1 month ago
@shawnmlynch the stoner design is a great rifle with a reputation from ignorant people who are Ill Informed. The original jam problems were do to the ammunition, not the rifle itself, it is to note that it was the preferred weapon of SOG in Vietnam.
SlayerofFiction 2 weeks ago
@SlayerofFiction This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. The "ammunition" problems are due to the design flaws. The platform can not cycle particular types of ammo effectively which is NOT the ammo's fault when most other platforms can cycle it. The design flaws are in the gas system polluting the upper and cam pin dragging on the inside of the upper. When these two problems are replaced with a gas piston and rolling cam pin the AR's reliability is up with the best.
shawnmlynch 2 weeks ago
@shawnmlynch No an Ar is a tighter spec weapon than most "battle rifles" in the world, giving up is some reliablity which is not an issue provided it is cleaned (why special opps do not have the problem your average dumb ass grunt does) maintained and proper ammition used. What you gain is a more effective overall weapon with greater accuracy thus a higher percentage of hits and thus more effect on the bad guys.
SlayerofFiction 2 weeks ago
@SlayerofFiction Even a modern AR with a FAIL ZERO bolt and regular cleaning, the platform WILL fail without question. And this coming from two folks who damn near worship the AR platform. You can blame it on the mags the ammo or gremlins for all I care, the original design is FLAWED.
shawnmlynch 2 weeks ago
crap ,with an ak that won t happen,,it is less accurate,but if you pull the trigger it rocks,had the same problem with my m16 too
georgewashington92 1 year ago
0:50 = OH SHIT IM DEAD
94Kani 1 year ago 2
Im sure any gun could break like that.
CREEDxFMx 1 year ago
I had the same thing happen to me in Afghanistan. Nothing pisses you off more than a broken bolt (bad extractor). I would like to point out too that its not an issue with going full-auto either. We train for accuracy in semi-auto and its happened to me. Just an opportunity to practice your quick-reaction drills.
DonzeJ 1 year ago
@DonzeJ Thank the lord for the HK416
ATLrapboy 1 year ago
@ATLrapboy Yeah, there is really no reason why this couldn't happen on a piston driven AR as well. I hate when people with no actual knowledge of weapons post stuff like this. Their entire knowledge base comes from Youtube and Future Weapons re-runs. The HK416, LWRC M6, ect. use the exact same bolt design as the original M16. Perhaps they use better materials but it's the same basic design.
Nater245689 8 months ago
@Nater245689 The HK416 uses a proprietary bolt. But Adams Arms,LWRC, LMT, use normal milspec bolts.
jah2mail 6 months ago
@jah2mail I can't speak for AA and LMT, but LWRC does do something slightly different. They use a non-mil spec bolt with a whale tail extractor. The design is tougher, but it can still break. The lugs can still crack, the bolt face itself can still crack, ect. It just fixes the number one cause of bolt problems, broken extractors.
Nater245689 6 months ago
@Nater245689 You said in your first comment that lwrc "use the exact same bolt design as the original M16." I've never heard the term "whale tail" before, but their bolt is a milspec bolt (dimensionally, which means you can use any other milspec bolt as a replacement), the "whale tail" is an extractor with two springs instead of one, LMT has a version with two springs as well.
jah2mail 6 months ago
@andyhuangit
Before and after every use. ARs like to fire wet, so you should be in the habit of oiling it regularly as well. This was caused by accelerated gas-port erosion, not a dirty weapon.
How2Tactical 2 years ago
what kind of scope u using?
sam7mag 2 years ago
@sam7mag
Just some cheapie red-dot, not even sure, lol.
How2Tactical 2 years ago
@How2Tactical FYI the gas system has nothing to do with a bolt failing, The weapon is actually very durable over all. The gas system merely pushes the bolt back thus chambering a round. You more than likely were using either hot loads (.223 firearm using .556 rounds?) or the most likely had a bad tempered bolt. Freak thing is all.
SlayerofFiction 2 weeks ago
Imagine that happened during a Zombie Apocalypse! Certain death for sure!
ssj3metal 2 years ago 2
Holy crap!!Thank God your weapon didn't blow up on you!!I've had a double feed happened to me in Basic & that was scary but this,whoa!!
TheChaves11b 2 years ago