At this point in the fire, if this is what they saw when they arrived, then the priority is to keep other structures from burning. This structure is an obvious total loss, and first responding crews would be working on exposure protection and rescue.
Please dont call me a dumbass or anything but im just wondering.. Would you send in a search&rescue squad in a situation like this? Because it could be people in there. Or do u wait for it to settle down?
@Mon3yMotivateD1 Thats not a dumb question at all its actually a very good one. From the very beginning of the vid there seemed like a lot of smoke, so if anyone were to be in there they would be dead or very close to death due to the high levels of carbon monoxide that is given off from the smoke. If I was capt. and arrived on scene with high quantity of smoke coming out the windows I wouldnt send a rescue team because no one inside could possibly be alive, so why risk lives of my men?
@joek0617 Not in this situation. He's using fog stream to try and keep the fire off of him because he's too close. A fog stream is good at close range on smaller fires. This fire is too big for a handline, it needs a master stream to deliver more GPM's. They should've had a straight stream from at least a 2 1/2" going into the store front long before it flashed. Fog streams are good for a room or two, they don't have enough penetration for bigger fires.
Why a fan at front door (1) and noone on a 2 1/2 or a portable monitor at the front of the building.... The guy running back and forth with a hand line around the minute 30 mark. front door still has the middle bar in it and still no line at the front. READ that smoke boys going from a whitish to a lite brown. only guessing whats going to happen. and yup it does and the engine is getting killed too.
@JDaleus7504 The fan is for positive pressure ventilation. Open up a window or door on the other side and blow the the smoke and heat out with the fan.
Surround and drown and throw the ladder pipes up. I would have used the deck gun on the engine. This fire needs GPMs to overcome the BTUs. And the handlines are pushing prob 125 gpm.....
@km1075 You are 100% correct! Urgency is secondary. Priority is not getting firefighters killed trying to save a building that is gone. It appears there is one engine crew on scene to begin with, there is no way one crew can safely go offensive on something like that. Firefighters will risk a lot to save a lot and we will rush into a building that everyone is rushing out of to save a life. Property is replaceable, a firefighter's life is not.
What's important to remember/learn is a fog nozzle, especially when widened, is also a ventilation tool. You can "hydralicly ventilate" out a window, moving the smoke around you outside. Conversely whiie outside you send our 21% oxygen environment inside. This fire is putting out too many BTUs for the water stream to absorb. Hence the increased fire behavior. Remember to read the smoke's volume, pressure, and color. A smooth bore tip with large GPM is waranted in these situations.
At 6.30 2 guys actually go into the building which is already a constructive total loss and liable to collapse. The only thing to do from that time on was suround the fire and contain it.
This is one of the best flashover videos I've seen. You can really read that smoke and see the flashover develop. The guys on the first line were really feeling some heat.
As a firefighter what bothers me is, you hear a firefighter say, " i didn't think it would do that". watching the smoke color, density and change in movement, I'd say three minutes into this video, the fire itself was giving ample signs that flash over was emanate...just saying.
@tbone6636 I'm pretty sure that was the camera man. But, this was from 1993, and education was not that huge of a deal then, even for the fire department.
Glass will fail by itself when heated sufficiently. With smoke (and no flame) being forced out in the volume seen initially, place apparatus away from the structure and keep personnel away from the structure. Look at other youtube videos on flashover and you'll see that the firefighters in this one were in the zone where death and injury occur during a flashover. Notice also at 3:50 that they back away from the building but the engine position prevented a necessary move back.
Training video ! Who are you kidding ? These guys are walking about like drunken sailors and the only person watching the smoke is the civilion cameraman..
What do you expect using small handlines with low GPM fog patterns. Im constantly amazed. Those lines are for cars and bedroom fires not commercial building fires.
@solidstream13 i mean personally i would have grabbed a 2 1/2 or master streamed that shit with fire that heavy, but its easy to be a monday morning quarter back. for all we know they could have had a parade out of town so they were short staffed with a reserve rig... not trying to pick a fight, im just sayin.
when they first got there , should have vented structure, once flames exposed thru the windows( thats not a true flash over by the way) the truck was a little close to structure, the deckgun should have been used, in there defense, it looked like there was just one pumper there! hey! did what you did, with what you had. been there! this wasn't to bad, saw worst
What I don´t understand just when the Flashover happens there is onyl 1 Firefighter with one hose... ?! It must be clear that a Singe hose can do much against a just happend Flashover...
i think the flames popped out when the ceiling collapsed... it was in the ceiling nice job guys...im assuming that you got it out... hahaha the video ends before it goes out...
Good fight, however by reading the smoke at the beginning of the video it was obvious more vertical ventilation was needed..And when the flashover occured, I can understand the 1st FF grabbing the closest handline (1,75"), but when other FF's got to the area a 2.5" line was the correct tool for the job by far. Not to mention I believe the engine was too close to the fire building. If the engine wasnt there, the flash wou;dnt have been a big deal. My 2 cents. -Mike
@UtahMike41 Duh, FLASHOVERS!!! Obviously, you've never been here or done this. As far as the other critics, get a life and let these guys do their jobs. Since NONE of you have the guts or knowledge to do it. May God Be with ALL Firefighters, Male or Female, You're truly UNSUNG HEROS.
@KB1NWR AMEN, thanks for those words. Someone on Youtube ALWAYS knows how to do something better than everyone else. Amazing all the World Peace authors around here havent got us living the good lives. And yes, God Bless all the Fire Fighters in this Country, and the world for what you do.
Should of read the smoke..........that was a loser from the start. I think master streams would of been a little more effective. Also take those streams off of fog and straight stream it.
@fyrmanjon6207 If you are faced with a flash and huge flames licking at your face, the smart thing to do is go to a fog pattern. Ever heard the saying "Right To Fight, Left For Life"? A fog pattern believe it or not, is much better on a flashover because of the tremendous amounts of heat involved. The fog pattern provides a wider radius and can protect you from a flash better than a straight stream. Straight streaming isnt gonna do crap cuz you're not gonna hit the materials that are actually...
@fyrmanjon6207(CONTD) burning since the flash will force you back away from the burning materials. You can spray at the flames all you want but in order to have an affective attack, you need to hit the MATERIALS that are ignited. Fog will help supress the flames when they are close and force them back a little bit thanks to the wide radius. Straigh streaming the flashover will not have much effect if your not hitting the materials. Plus the word DEFENSE comes to mind when look at their -
@fyrmanjon6207 (CONTD) positions. If you are defensive, then you are obviously protecting yourself or blocking an attack. So what does that famous quote say about LEFT on your nozzle. Fog to protect yourself and straight stream to fight. Had they been offensive or interior on this fire, then yes, the straight stream may have been a better choice. But you have to think about the given circumstances. We cant choose the fire or choose what it does. We just have to react, but react smartly. Peace.
@nsrailfann4life91 That would have been the case IF they would have read the smoke. You would want to fog it to get out of there, not just stay in the same position. Also with that much fire and heat (by reading the smoke) a 2 1/2" should have been used with a smooth bore to get to the seat of the fire.
when the water is evaporated by heat molecular bindings are destroyed and the oxygen becomes O2, the oxygen we breath and which the fire needs to burn.
@Hubieee That's not true in structure fires, the heat is not hot enough. It converts water to super heated steam. It takes something like magnesium or sodium burning to create that chemical reaction.
@Hubieee Where did you get your Physics Degree from, A CrackerJacks Box. Short bursts of water in a fog pattern will create steam, which will darken a larger chunk of fire down faster, there by making it easier to put out in the long run.
Holy fuck, are you a moron? That's not at all what happens. If it was we WOULDNT USE WATER to put fire out. Go back to elementary school. God damn you're dumb.
Anyway, my dept. just had a fire very similar to this one...cooked and simmered for probably a half hour before anyone noticed and called. It's pretty hopeless when things are that far gone...too dangerous to enter given the risks and hazards for probably a doomed mission.
I guess the fact that firemen like you are always available here is because this is the only place where you are heard... and that's better that way. Practically I won't doubt that you are more reliable in putting a fire out... but when a flash over is imminent then the temperature in the room has risen by a certain degree that for example furniture is flaming up even if there's no fire touching it yet. The temperature is that high that water DOES evaporate...
... and thereby supports the engulfing flames with it's oxygen. What I didn't say was that water is a proper liquid to cool the floor or walls when there isn't a flashover, but when it's too late, it's too late... otherwise the flaming speed would "only" be a few 10-20 cm/sec and not that fast.
I quite enjoy your "anger", therefore I enjoy the fact that I am right and you in some way aren't (concerning the sentence that you really thought I didn't know that you put out a fire with water ;) )
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Just by the way this video starts that is a freaky looking fire, very unpredictable. That thing is wanting some serious oxygen and its waiting for them to give it a big gulp of air Man no good! I do not say this much but kinda scary. I would have second thoughts on this one she is a beast. We get a lot of stuff like this in the strip malls and when they go, they go At 2:50 she vented her self right out that roof, she got her air and now she is kicking ass and taking names. What are they doing?
dont chop these guys up this wasnt their fault the building was gone and thgis wasnt the whole video they did make a good attack on it a couple minutes after the video
This building was not gone! They let it go. Maybe if they used the correct size attck line(2 1/2") and directed it torwards the ceiling they would have prevented the flashover. Which by the way, they still attempted to control with an 1 3/4" which will eventually quench the fire, when it runs out of fuel! If you think these are good tactics, then you didn't learn anything from this fire and the same mistakes will be repeated.
In fact it was gone. The fire was rolling through the attic on our arrival. It needed to be vertically vented but the roof was unsafe for firefighters. 15' inside the building the heat forced me flat on the floor. Perhaps where you come from putting a blitz line in a door and dumping tons of water on smoke and the ceiling will somehow prevent flashover and put a fully involved commerical attic fire but in my world you actually have to be able to put water the fire for it to go out. Be safe
Thank you for your comments. I would have liked to have filmed from other view points. Maybe that would give some of those posting comments a better understanding of what was going on. Trying to film from the Main St side of the block would have been to dangerous. You remember how nasty this was.
You did a great job with this video and I'm sure many fire departments have used it for training. Filming from a different view wouldn't explain to some people what they just don't understand. I encourage people to be critical because there are real lessons to be learned but I can't stand people who have probably never fought any fire even close to this making outragous statements. The FD saved a city block that night under very dangerous circumstances and everyone made it home. Thanks again.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
i already know these guys are horrible but i saw so much bashing i wanted to say something my companie hast 1 million times better tactics than this companie
OMFG. I hav had enough of all these jerks bahing ither companies. ALL FIREFIGHTERS SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE, TO LIVE BY THE FIREMAN'S PRAYER. Just let these guys do their job and do yours. Who cares who has better equipment or tactics as long as the fire is put out.
@nsrailfann4life91 OK thanks, your handle sounded like a friend of mine's that I haven't seen for a few years. Riding behind 611 and 1218 was the experience of a lifetime.
@ffjsb I bet. I would like to ride it. However, I am in the middle of my application process for becomeing a freight train conductor for Norfolk Southern in Norfolk, VA.
@lickerwell01 You're comment was posted a while ago, but I can't let your ignorance go unanswered. Did you ever stop to think that there might be two or three ceilings in a building this old? Good chance of metal ceiling tiles too, which are hard to get through. So you open it up so you can get water on it, which also feeds it air, which can spread the fire dropping the ceiling on you. Take a course on building construction, and do some case studies.
That's a good question. E111 was only about 12' from the building. Even at the deck gun's lowest angle, it was still too high to put water through the windows. We did end up pulling the deck gun off and making a ground monitor. In fact, once good defensive positions were in place, we were flowing about 10,000 gpm of water on this fire. I really never thought about not being able to use a mounted deck gun on a large fire until this one. It was one of many lessoned I learned that night.
@71057177 Please tell me that you are talking about a total of 10,000 GPM between all of your trucks / hoses because I have yet to see a fire apparatus with a pump rated at 10,000 GPM. The highest rating I have seen is 2,500 - 3,000 GPM. If any truck had that kind of output, it would have to be on steroids. Plus, at 10,000 GPM you would deplete your on-board tank within a matter of seconds unless you were using a hydrant for your water supply.
@nsrailfann4life91. E111 was a '91 Seagraves with a 1500 gpm pump. This footage is from the first hour or so of the fire. The building was at a "T" intersection with more apparatus staged around the corner. The fire burned for several more hours and we used water towers and master streams. With several water towers and master streams deployed it isn't hard to deliver 10,000 gpm provided the there is a good water system which the city has. E111 couldn't pump nearly that much h20 buy itself.
@71057177 Ok. Thats what I was wondering. I wasnt trying to sound rude. I'm glad that you take the sarcasm well. Us firefighters always have sarcastic jokes and comments with one another at the firehouse. Thats what makes it fun. Especially messin' with the probies lmao.
It's when the air, smoke, and materials inside the structure reach a temperature where it all ignites, flashing over. In this video it happens when the windows break.
@orangejump11 Flashover occurs when fire runs out of air in an enclosed space, heat builds up, so that when air is suddenly re-introduced, the fire explodes. At this building fire, the glass broke out and supplied the air again to the fire. The heavy smoke with no flame showing is a sign of an impending flashover that can be very dangerous to firefighters right next to the building like the two with the single handline. Needed to break out the window and hit it without a deluge gun.
@MusikAndLuv Run the video using stop frames at 1 second,2:30, 3:00, 3:50, 4:00, 4:25, and 5:55 and you'll see what happened. At 1 second you have smoke being forced through a brick wall, a clear indication of backflash conditions. At 2:30 the fire vents itself through the roof. At 3:00, the fire vents itself through the front. By 4:25 four hands lines are on the fire and it is still huge and through the roof. Deluge gun through the front and ladder pipe on the roof needed.
@b9consult Actually, what you just described, is a Backdraft not a flashover. A flashover and a backdraft are two completely different things although the amounts of heat and danger are very similair. A flashover occurs when all of the contents in a confined area, reach their ignition temperature simultaneously. A backdraft, however, is exactly what you described: Reintroducing oxygen to a fire that is almost deprived of all oxygen in a well seal-tight area.
@orangejump11 google it or youtube it - it'd take too long to explain - but many firefighters watching this would see one is building there real quick .... also look up reading smoke. You'll learn alot there too and have a better understanding of what is going on inside a structure fire.
@orangejump11 it's when every object in the room is heated to it's ignition temperature and simultaneously ignites. signs of flashover are extreme heat, what we call fire fingers or snakes (int he smoke the flames look like fingers or snakes. the flashover container is neat. it shows the signs of pre flashover, but you can never survive a flashover.
thats a scary fire. block building with pressurised smoke, it is the type that seperates the men from the boys.ever since the sofa superstore fire, that type of fire scares the shit out of me.. good job guys
I worked in Sumner from 91-96 and was on the first arriving engine. As we arrived,there was smoke coming from the attic vents. When we gained access to the auto parts store, the negative pressure inside the building sucked the door out of my captain's hand. I'm still amazed it didn't backdraft. Crews attempted to vertically vent but the roof was unsafe. This building was a goner but we did a good job stopping the fire from spreading to other connected buildings. Be safe.
Great training Film, Big Fire Big Water, two inlet multiversal in the front door, 500 gpm as opposed to that hand line will sure take away that heat. We will either put in enough water to control the fire or it will control us. be safe
This is a video I will share with everbody at the station, You cannot get a better training aid free than this. And smoke reading WOW :) Thanks For the hard work, God Bless and God speed.
@uga1709 Lol. Seeing that this occured within the early 90s, the truck might have been a little charred, but today thats not the case. Now our fire apparatus manufacturers pre-treat the paint with heat resistent chemicals that prevent the paint from bubbling up and peeling. Like I said, in the 90s this may not have been done, but today, alot more is done to these trucks than people think.
id say the box was diffinatly full. Granted it was 93 but im amazed at the amount of firefighters on scene. i think the most i saw at one time was 5 or 6. Those boys had to be tired at the end of the day. Im sure they had fun though. Hey its better than no fire at all and diffinatly better than taking a shit medic run.
i get a stronger stream when i urinate in the morning! maybe we should start reading some books on fire stream management! i'm actually sad for seeing this, we can only hope no one got hurt.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
he'd have been able ti knock that flash back if he wasnt a pussy and hit it in the throat with the straight stream......to think pussy fog patterns would knock that back is ignorance
He shouldn't have been inside the collapse zone but you can't protect yourself with a straight stream you douche-bag. Nothing was going to hold back that fire. It was a lost cause. If FF take anything away from this, it should be to establish collapse zones and stay out once operations go defensive.
Maybe if they went in and put the fire out when they first arived it wouldn't have gotten so bad. And remember, BIG FIRE, BIG WATER. Not a small line with a fog nozzle.
those two were not engaged in supression, at that point they were trying to PROTECT themselves from the heat, the only way to cool the air rapidly around themselves is with a fog pattern and even with that they still were forced back. Lucky they were not hurt. But i do agree that once that fire got lose its time for some big water. Would have like to seen someone on that deck gun.
@terpsterror Hate to break it to ya, but when a flash happens, all you can do is hold your hose and get out. You can't stop a flash unless you are able to get water on the core components and materials burning which would mean that you would be steamed like a lobster because a flash occurs when all items in a contained area hit ignition temp simultaniously meaning that yiou better get out or get cooked. Fog is better than straight stream. Ever heard the saying "Right to Fight, Left for Life"?
actually flashovers are now being seen at temps as low as 400-500 degrees. This is because of the products of combustion in the manufactured materials that we use today.
I'm just a rookie but Im with the British guy. If there were no lives in jeopardy, I think a more defensive approach would have been a much more wise decision. I wonder if the paint was peeling off the left side of that truck when they were done? lol
very cool video, I am a new firefighter from ohio and just graduated from the ohio fire academy, looking forward to getting on a department and getting into some fire.
This building was going into flashover. Flashover is 700 degrees. EVERYTHING except for metal burns at flash over. The fire dept really could do nothing except for try and cool it down. I dont thinkl there was much they could do.
Since when is there a stigma of "small town fire dept"? This fire took out a whole city block, I've been on fires with this much heat, with four, five and sometimes six alarms in. Even with all that manpower and "fire power" at the scene sometimes you still lose the battle, the bldgs were built when people said "what's a fire code"? At the time of this fire, Sumner was a pretty damn good FD, and I don't even work there so there is no personal bias.
Hey allsteer40 there no personal bias but let be honest, this is a small town Fire dept. It that simple, You can get upset and pissed off but the truth is truth, It a small town operation and they're slow.
Who's pissed off? You guys read too much into the comments. Try telling the FDNY, or Houston they're slow on a big one like this and see what happens...
@whaledog77 HAVE YOU BEEN IN A FLASHOVER OR BACKDRAFT? HAVE YOU BEEN INTERIOR? HAVE YOU USED A STRAIGHT BORE? HAVE YOU HAD FF1 AND FF2? HAVE YOU FACED THE ADRENALINE RUSH? HAVE YOU PERFORMED UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER THIS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE? NO? THEN SHUT UP AND RECOGNIZE THAT THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD. FIRE IS FIRE AND IT BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY EVERY TIME THE TONES DROP. IF YOU DONT APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS OF US FIREFIGHTERS, THEN SHOULD YOU EVER NEED US, DONT CALL, JACKASS!
@whaledog77 They were protecting themselves from the flash when it occurred. I am a firefighter and for those of you who say "Well, you took too long and blah blah" COME DO OUR JOB AND THEN SEE HOW MUCH EASIER IT IS SAID THAN DONE PLEASE! A 3 alarm fire isnt a small backyard brush fire, dude. It is a very hard fire to put out. Also given that conditions were unsafe for an aggressive interior attack meaning that they were not able to actually hit the core of the heavy fire. Think before you post.
wow, great footage at 3:11, that's what happens when we push air into a big fire choked out by smoke. Remember big fire needs big water(2.5") and a smooth bore for penetration. Also remember risks and benefits, that structure may be a total loss (hard to tell how big it is etc.) and therefor may not be worth entering. Looked like fun though ;)
you know, this is no laughing matter!!! where i live we too have lost much of our history due to fire!! one was an old factory,that the OWNER SET ABLAZE TO TRY AND COLLECT INSURANCE. NOW HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT?????????
anything less than a 2.5 is useless on this fire load, fog or staight stream. This is where that good old fire flow formula comes into play. Stay safe
Great footage,but from a British firefighters point of view it just makes me shake my head in dismay. This sort of wanton disregard for health and safety is one of the reasons that so many US firefighters die in the line of duty. What is the point of standing next to a blaze of that magnitude when it can be tackled more effectively from a distance. It was an empty building for gods sake!! In the UK we would have surrounded the building with ground monitors and all gone home to fight another day.
read the smoke--smoke is fuel-brown color-rapid flow-flash is going to happen-watch again and learn -classic read here -be safe with gods speed-29 years here retired -
big fire = big water. Even w/ the small line...straight stream! No fog! As a brother mentioned..elevated master stream at street level shooting up an in. Don't know how the one brother "didn't see it doing that." Classic progression of row stores or strip mall fires with improper water volume application/tactics. Rapid roof ventilation, vent the front windows, force the rear doors. Write off well involved exposures and make a stand from side to side. Not front to back.
a 2 and a half would be a start,how about a nice big fat tower ladder at level with the store front making the fire cry for momma.oh yeah ,has anybody ever heard of a trench cut?
a 2 and a half would be a start,how about a nice big fat tower ladder at level with the store front making the fire cry for momma.oh yeah ,has anybody ever heard of a trench cut?
yeeeah lets park the fuckin truck 10 feet from the damn door thats a bright idea and if there where only 2 people on that line is fucking rediculous set a damn blitz fire on that thing and leave it where is the damn ladder truck with some roof vent poor command
ok, ill agree TO SOME EXTENT-yes, the engine was a little close (but a little more than 10 ft.away)-i also agree to put some master streams on it- BUT -what good would roof vent do? THATS HOW WE GET PEOPLE KILLED-the building is meer moments away from ventinig itself. SO why put guys on the roof to do a job the fire will do. AND-whose to say this town has a ladder truck? besides our ladder, the closest one is 18 mi. away. AND FINALLY TO EVERYONE-this was in '93, we've come along way since then.
shiiit we have 2 ladders and a tower im just saying they should have vented quickly if that had been a video from this time that the first thing they should have done im not saying they did horrible job everyone has things that they do differently
Where all of your gear it saves lives. It is not heroic to die just because you didn't put on your gear. Live to see your familes another day. There is NO excuse not too.
One of the best videos for training purposes I've seen so far, including "reading the smoke", safety issues (engine parked to close, PPE), attack and much more.
It is a joy to watch a professional videographer at work (and a nice edit too). You compose the frame so that the drama is clear, and some segments (like the one just after 5:20 with the firemen) I wish I could have as a large print because the composition of the frame is just perfect.
Thank you for capturing the drama and fearsome beauty of the fire. Sad that so much got lost.
Haaa those poor guys on the handline had to scoot outta there... She was cranking out serious BTUs at that point...Ladder pipes and heavy streams are the only ways to go from there!
That was definitely a hungry fire, you could tell by the amount of billowing smoke that is wasn't good. As soon as that thing self vented and caught some air it took off. Great video.
I have yet to witness another flash over that equals this one. I have smaller flash overs on tape that are weak in comparison. I was awed by the power of this event.
hihi ich bin total naja wie soll ich sagen reich
LeoniaJulietek953 2 weeks ago
@LeoniaJulietek953 Herzlichen Glückwunsch zum Wesen völlig naja.
VX2100DV 2 weeks ago
You can only work with what is on hand... the 2 1/2" line came out way to late.
skiqsr 4 months ago
At this point in the fire, if this is what they saw when they arrived, then the priority is to keep other structures from burning. This structure is an obvious total loss, and first responding crews would be working on exposure protection and rescue.
rm911medic 4 months ago
thanks for calling the city garage how may we help you?
this is chief mcgillikuddy and I was wondering if you had time for a quick paint job this week?
sure chief, what needs to be painted?
the EO side of our pumper.
GTFD2HOUSE 5 months ago
Please dont call me a dumbass or anything but im just wondering.. Would you send in a search&rescue squad in a situation like this? Because it could be people in there. Or do u wait for it to settle down?
Mon3yMotivateD1 5 months ago
@Mon3yMotivateD1 Thats not a dumb question at all its actually a very good one. From the very beginning of the vid there seemed like a lot of smoke, so if anyone were to be in there they would be dead or very close to death due to the high levels of carbon monoxide that is given off from the smoke. If I was capt. and arrived on scene with high quantity of smoke coming out the windows I wouldnt send a rescue team because no one inside could possibly be alive, so why risk lives of my men?
efRAIN19Vaz 5 months ago 3
So whats the point of using a fog nozzle?
ChurchillVFC 6 months ago
@ChurchillVFC it cools more effectively, that's how water put fire out, it robs it of the energy needed to react
joek0617 5 months ago
@joek0617 Not in this situation. He's using fog stream to try and keep the fire off of him because he's too close. A fog stream is good at close range on smaller fires. This fire is too big for a handline, it needs a master stream to deliver more GPM's. They should've had a straight stream from at least a 2 1/2" going into the store front long before it flashed. Fog streams are good for a room or two, they don't have enough penetration for bigger fires.
ffjsb 5 months ago 2
Comment removed
JDaleus7504 6 months ago
Why a fan at front door (1) and noone on a 2 1/2 or a portable monitor at the front of the building.... The guy running back and forth with a hand line around the minute 30 mark. front door still has the middle bar in it and still no line at the front. READ that smoke boys going from a whitish to a lite brown. only guessing whats going to happen. and yup it does and the engine is getting killed too.
JDaleus7504 6 months ago
@JDaleus7504 The fan is for positive pressure ventilation. Open up a window or door on the other side and blow the the smoke and heat out with the fan.
cutiger3115 5 months ago
this is how firefighters get killed.
hfd966 6 months ago
Poooof !
bkymic 8 months ago
Surround and drown and throw the ladder pipes up. I would have used the deck gun on the engine. This fire needs GPMs to overcome the BTUs. And the handlines are pushing prob 125 gpm.....
Redtale1106 8 months ago
where is this town? i guess urgency isnt a priority
km1075 9 months ago
@km1075 Sumner, WA
VX2100DV 9 months ago
@km1075 You are 100% correct! Urgency is secondary. Priority is not getting firefighters killed trying to save a building that is gone. It appears there is one engine crew on scene to begin with, there is no way one crew can safely go offensive on something like that. Firefighters will risk a lot to save a lot and we will rush into a building that everyone is rushing out of to save a life. Property is replaceable, a firefighter's life is not.
RTFMAce 2 months ago
What's important to remember/learn is a fog nozzle, especially when widened, is also a ventilation tool. You can "hydralicly ventilate" out a window, moving the smoke around you outside. Conversely whiie outside you send our 21% oxygen environment inside. This fire is putting out too many BTUs for the water stream to absorb. Hence the increased fire behavior. Remember to read the smoke's volume, pressure, and color. A smooth bore tip with large GPM is waranted in these situations.
707westy 10 months ago
Comment removed
707westy 10 months ago
At 6.30 2 guys actually go into the building which is already a constructive total loss and liable to collapse. The only thing to do from that time on was suround the fire and contain it.
Norfolkscot 11 months ago 2
Fog pattern= more oxygen= more fire! Deck gun or at least 3 2 1/2's right from the start
wfd6912 11 months ago
This is one of the best flashover videos I've seen. You can really read that smoke and see the flashover develop. The guys on the first line were really feeling some heat.
bkymic 1 year ago
Very cool video, especially when you remember this was in 1993.
sharppointy1 1 year ago
As a firefighter what bothers me is, you hear a firefighter say, " i didn't think it would do that". watching the smoke color, density and change in movement, I'd say three minutes into this video, the fire itself was giving ample signs that flash over was emanate...just saying.
tbone6636 1 year ago
@tbone6636 I'm pretty sure that was the camera man. But, this was from 1993, and education was not that huge of a deal then, even for the fire department.
SurendrdSeraph1050 1 year ago
Glass will fail by itself when heated sufficiently. With smoke (and no flame) being forced out in the volume seen initially, place apparatus away from the structure and keep personnel away from the structure. Look at other youtube videos on flashover and you'll see that the firefighters in this one were in the zone where death and injury occur during a flashover. Notice also at 3:50 that they back away from the building but the engine position prevented a necessary move back.
b9consult 1 year ago
Training video ! Who are you kidding ? These guys are walking about like drunken sailors and the only person watching the smoke is the civilion cameraman..
Norfolkscot 1 year ago
WOWOWOWOWOW!!1 what a wild att fire mna good job on the video shooting!!
homeyroberts 1 year ago
Now that is what you call fighting a fire. Face to face. Wow! Nice filming.
SkullakaAce 1 year ago
What do you expect using small handlines with low GPM fog patterns. Im constantly amazed. Those lines are for cars and bedroom fires not commercial building fires.
solidstream13 1 year ago
@solidstream13 i mean personally i would have grabbed a 2 1/2 or master streamed that shit with fire that heavy, but its easy to be a monday morning quarter back. for all we know they could have had a parade out of town so they were short staffed with a reserve rig... not trying to pick a fight, im just sayin.
johnsmithy667 1 year ago
@solidstream13 I right with you on this one. BIG FIRE = BIG WATER.
fyrmanjon6207 1 year ago
Comment removed
pupcat2 1 year ago
i dont understand old, historic, what does this mean. are they old buildings or what, or how old.
onekeypianoplayer 1 year ago
Ever thought of using foam...
brydan10 1 year ago
when they first got there , should have vented structure, once flames exposed thru the windows( thats not a true flash over by the way) the truck was a little close to structure, the deckgun should have been used, in there defense, it looked like there was just one pumper there! hey! did what you did, with what you had. been there! this wasn't to bad, saw worst
bobnegro1 1 year ago
What I don´t understand just when the Flashover happens there is onyl 1 Firefighter with one hose... ?! It must be clear that a Singe hose can do much against a just happend Flashover...
Zugvogel1 1 year ago
i think the flames popped out when the ceiling collapsed... it was in the ceiling nice job guys...im assuming that you got it out... hahaha the video ends before it goes out...
93CFD 2 years ago
Good fight, however by reading the smoke at the beginning of the video it was obvious more vertical ventilation was needed..And when the flashover occured, I can understand the 1st FF grabbing the closest handline (1,75"), but when other FF's got to the area a 2.5" line was the correct tool for the job by far. Not to mention I believe the engine was too close to the fire building. If the engine wasnt there, the flash wou;dnt have been a big deal. My 2 cents. -Mike
mbenjamin722 2 years ago 2
absolute crazy fire, good work on the fight, you can tell it was getting out of control. great video!
WestCornersFire29 2 years ago
Amazing. What were the muffled explosions??
UtahMike41 2 years ago
@UtahMike41 Duh, FLASHOVERS!!! Obviously, you've never been here or done this. As far as the other critics, get a life and let these guys do their jobs. Since NONE of you have the guts or knowledge to do it. May God Be with ALL Firefighters, Male or Female, You're truly UNSUNG HEROS.
KB1NWR 1 year ago
@KB1NWR AMEN, thanks for those words. Someone on Youtube ALWAYS knows how to do something better than everyone else. Amazing all the World Peace authors around here havent got us living the good lives. And yes, God Bless all the Fire Fighters in this Country, and the world for what you do.
jimgreene68 1 year ago
Should of read the smoke..........that was a loser from the start. I think master streams would of been a little more effective. Also take those streams off of fog and straight stream it.
fyrmanjon6207 2 years ago
@fyrmanjon6207 If you are faced with a flash and huge flames licking at your face, the smart thing to do is go to a fog pattern. Ever heard the saying "Right To Fight, Left For Life"? A fog pattern believe it or not, is much better on a flashover because of the tremendous amounts of heat involved. The fog pattern provides a wider radius and can protect you from a flash better than a straight stream. Straight streaming isnt gonna do crap cuz you're not gonna hit the materials that are actually...
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@fyrmanjon6207(CONTD) burning since the flash will force you back away from the burning materials. You can spray at the flames all you want but in order to have an affective attack, you need to hit the MATERIALS that are ignited. Fog will help supress the flames when they are close and force them back a little bit thanks to the wide radius. Straigh streaming the flashover will not have much effect if your not hitting the materials. Plus the word DEFENSE comes to mind when look at their -
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@fyrmanjon6207 (CONTD) positions. If you are defensive, then you are obviously protecting yourself or blocking an attack. So what does that famous quote say about LEFT on your nozzle. Fog to protect yourself and straight stream to fight. Had they been offensive or interior on this fire, then yes, the straight stream may have been a better choice. But you have to think about the given circumstances. We cant choose the fire or choose what it does. We just have to react, but react smartly. Peace.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@nsrailfann4life91 That would have been the case IF they would have read the smoke. You would want to fog it to get out of there, not just stay in the same position. Also with that much fire and heat (by reading the smoke) a 2 1/2" should have been used with a smooth bore to get to the seat of the fire.
fyrmanjon6207 1 year ago
3 words: Surround and Drown !
aquadan005 2 years ago 2
Not to Monday morning quarterback, but Big fire = big water and it should be applied in a straight stream fashion.
BCFDtruckguy 2 years ago
man either way that must have been hotter than satans butthole.
OEFarredondo 2 years ago
WoW that fire came alive when they put water on it !!!
turbodog411 2 years ago
its quite simple...
water = h20
when the water is evaporated by heat molecular bindings are destroyed and the oxygen becomes O2, the oxygen we breath and which the fire needs to burn.
Hubieee 2 years ago
OMG!!! you should write a book!
turbodog411 2 years ago
But NO Chemie oder Physik book :))))
RussianBear842 2 years ago
yes but the H2O also disrupts the flow of O2 to the fire, (temporalry) causing the fire to die (momentarily).
Futurefirefighter99 2 years ago
@Hubieee That's not true in structure fires, the heat is not hot enough. It converts water to super heated steam. It takes something like magnesium or sodium burning to create that chemical reaction.
ffjsb 1 year ago
@Hubieee Where did you get your Physics Degree from, A CrackerJacks Box. Short bursts of water in a fog pattern will create steam, which will darken a larger chunk of fire down faster, there by making it easier to put out in the long run.
KB1NWR 1 year ago
@Hubieee
Holy fuck, are you a moron? That's not at all what happens. If it was we WOULDNT USE WATER to put fire out. Go back to elementary school. God damn you're dumb.
Anyway, my dept. just had a fire very similar to this one...cooked and simmered for probably a half hour before anyone noticed and called. It's pretty hopeless when things are that far gone...too dangerous to enter given the risks and hazards for probably a doomed mission.
uberlogger 1 year ago
@uberlogger
I guess the fact that firemen like you are always available here is because this is the only place where you are heard... and that's better that way. Practically I won't doubt that you are more reliable in putting a fire out... but when a flash over is imminent then the temperature in the room has risen by a certain degree that for example furniture is flaming up even if there's no fire touching it yet. The temperature is that high that water DOES evaporate...
Hubieee 1 year ago
... and thereby supports the engulfing flames with it's oxygen. What I didn't say was that water is a proper liquid to cool the floor or walls when there isn't a flashover, but when it's too late, it's too late... otherwise the flaming speed would "only" be a few 10-20 cm/sec and not that fast.
I quite enjoy your "anger", therefore I enjoy the fact that I am right and you in some way aren't (concerning the sentence that you really thought I didn't know that you put out a fire with water ;) )
I
Hubieee 1 year ago
why was there no ladder pipe operations set up, and they could have placed the deck gun itno operations.
EMS221k 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Just by the way this video starts that is a freaky looking fire, very unpredictable. That thing is wanting some serious oxygen and its waiting for them to give it a big gulp of air Man no good! I do not say this much but kinda scary. I would have second thoughts on this one she is a beast. We get a lot of stuff like this in the strip malls and when they go, they go At 2:50 she vented her self right out that roof, she got her air and now she is kicking ass and taking names. What are they doing?
RalphFDNY4life 2 years ago
Why even bother showing up for this one?
They should be ashamed of their performance!
lickerwell01 2 years ago
dont chop these guys up this wasnt their fault the building was gone and thgis wasnt the whole video they did make a good attack on it a couple minutes after the video
rockinfireman95 2 years ago
This building was not gone! They let it go. Maybe if they used the correct size attck line(2 1/2") and directed it torwards the ceiling they would have prevented the flashover. Which by the way, they still attempted to control with an 1 3/4" which will eventually quench the fire, when it runs out of fuel! If you think these are good tactics, then you didn't learn anything from this fire and the same mistakes will be repeated.
lickerwell01 2 years ago
ya know what fine i was trying to be nice a bout thes guys but your right.......
rockinfireman95 2 years ago
Comment removed
71057177 2 years ago
In fact it was gone. The fire was rolling through the attic on our arrival. It needed to be vertically vented but the roof was unsafe for firefighters. 15' inside the building the heat forced me flat on the floor. Perhaps where you come from putting a blitz line in a door and dumping tons of water on smoke and the ceiling will somehow prevent flashover and put a fully involved commerical attic fire but in my world you actually have to be able to put water the fire for it to go out. Be safe
71057177 2 years ago
Thank you for your comments. I would have liked to have filmed from other view points. Maybe that would give some of those posting comments a better understanding of what was going on. Trying to film from the Main St side of the block would have been to dangerous. You remember how nasty this was.
VX2100DV 2 years ago
You did a great job with this video and I'm sure many fire departments have used it for training. Filming from a different view wouldn't explain to some people what they just don't understand. I encourage people to be critical because there are real lessons to be learned but I can't stand people who have probably never fought any fire even close to this making outragous statements. The FD saved a city block that night under very dangerous circumstances and everyone made it home. Thanks again.
71057177 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i already know these guys are horrible but i saw so much bashing i wanted to say something my companie hast 1 million times better tactics than this companie
rockinfireman95 2 years ago
Better spelling too!
dmn110 2 years ago
youre kompanie haz bettur tacktix huh? you must has some real good guys up their. why poste such a comant?
asbestosfiber 2 years ago
OMFG. I hav had enough of all these jerks bahing ither companies. ALL FIREFIGHTERS SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE, TO LIVE BY THE FIREMAN'S PRAYER. Just let these guys do their job and do yours. Who cares who has better equipment or tactics as long as the fire is put out.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@nsrailfann4life91 Hey did you ever ride the NS steam specials? You wouldn't happen to be from Ohio would you?
ffjsb 1 year ago
@ffjsb Nope, but I would like to ride one and no I am not from Ohio. I'm from VA
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@nsrailfann4life91 OK thanks, your handle sounded like a friend of mine's that I haven't seen for a few years. Riding behind 611 and 1218 was the experience of a lifetime.
ffjsb 1 year ago
@ffjsb I bet. I would like to ride it. However, I am in the middle of my application process for becomeing a freight train conductor for Norfolk Southern in Norfolk, VA.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@lickerwell01 You're comment was posted a while ago, but I can't let your ignorance go unanswered. Did you ever stop to think that there might be two or three ceilings in a building this old? Good chance of metal ceiling tiles too, which are hard to get through. So you open it up so you can get water on it, which also feeds it air, which can spread the fire dropping the ceiling on you. Take a course on building construction, and do some case studies.
ffjsb 1 year ago
no Monday morning quarter backing, but deck gun and tower ladders ?????
JTACIJ 2 years ago
Why the hell didn't you guys use ur deck gun, you already had a good water supply.
Chavito10 2 years ago
That's a good question. E111 was only about 12' from the building. Even at the deck gun's lowest angle, it was still too high to put water through the windows. We did end up pulling the deck gun off and making a ground monitor. In fact, once good defensive positions were in place, we were flowing about 10,000 gpm of water on this fire. I really never thought about not being able to use a mounted deck gun on a large fire until this one. It was one of many lessoned I learned that night.
71057177 2 years ago
@71057177 Please tell me that you are talking about a total of 10,000 GPM between all of your trucks / hoses because I have yet to see a fire apparatus with a pump rated at 10,000 GPM. The highest rating I have seen is 2,500 - 3,000 GPM. If any truck had that kind of output, it would have to be on steroids. Plus, at 10,000 GPM you would deplete your on-board tank within a matter of seconds unless you were using a hydrant for your water supply.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@nsrailfann4life91. E111 was a '91 Seagraves with a 1500 gpm pump. This footage is from the first hour or so of the fire. The building was at a "T" intersection with more apparatus staged around the corner. The fire burned for several more hours and we used water towers and master streams. With several water towers and master streams deployed it isn't hard to deliver 10,000 gpm provided the there is a good water system which the city has. E111 couldn't pump nearly that much h20 buy itself.
71057177 1 year ago
@71057177 Ok. Thats what I was wondering. I wasnt trying to sound rude. I'm glad that you take the sarcasm well. Us firefighters always have sarcastic jokes and comments with one another at the firehouse. Thats what makes it fun. Especially messin' with the probies lmao.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
what escatly is a flash over? something to do with flames comin out of the building ?
orangejump11 2 years ago
It's when the air, smoke, and materials inside the structure reach a temperature where it all ignites, flashing over. In this video it happens when the windows break.
VX2100DV 2 years ago
hey, thanks i appreciate it
orangejump11 2 years ago
@VX2100DV in other words, it get so hot in there that everything lights up
joek0617 5 months ago
@orangejump11 Flashover occurs when fire runs out of air in an enclosed space, heat builds up, so that when air is suddenly re-introduced, the fire explodes. At this building fire, the glass broke out and supplied the air again to the fire. The heavy smoke with no flame showing is a sign of an impending flashover that can be very dangerous to firefighters right next to the building like the two with the single handline. Needed to break out the window and hit it without a deluge gun.
b9consult 1 year ago
@b9consult When he shot the hose on the super heated glass, the immediate cooling caused them to break and fill the structure with oxygen.
MusikAndLuv 1 year ago
@MusikAndLuv Run the video using stop frames at 1 second,2:30, 3:00, 3:50, 4:00, 4:25, and 5:55 and you'll see what happened. At 1 second you have smoke being forced through a brick wall, a clear indication of backflash conditions. At 2:30 the fire vents itself through the roof. At 3:00, the fire vents itself through the front. By 4:25 four hands lines are on the fire and it is still huge and through the roof. Deluge gun through the front and ladder pipe on the roof needed.
b9consult 1 year ago
@b9consult Actually, what you just described, is a Backdraft not a flashover. A flashover and a backdraft are two completely different things although the amounts of heat and danger are very similair. A flashover occurs when all of the contents in a confined area, reach their ignition temperature simultaneously. A backdraft, however, is exactly what you described: Reintroducing oxygen to a fire that is almost deprived of all oxygen in a well seal-tight area.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@orangejump11 google it or youtube it - it'd take too long to explain - but many firefighters watching this would see one is building there real quick .... also look up reading smoke. You'll learn alot there too and have a better understanding of what is going on inside a structure fire.
SNS8R03 9 months ago 2
@orangejump11 it's when every object in the room is heated to it's ignition temperature and simultaneously ignites. signs of flashover are extreme heat, what we call fire fingers or snakes (int he smoke the flames look like fingers or snakes. the flashover container is neat. it shows the signs of pre flashover, but you can never survive a flashover.
BrandonOFD92 6 months ago
thats a scary fire. block building with pressurised smoke, it is the type that seperates the men from the boys.ever since the sofa superstore fire, that type of fire scares the shit out of me.. good job guys
WRCATFISH 2 years ago
yea ill say
Hanoverfirefighter 2 years ago
Good fight on the flashover
smarch1337 2 years ago
I worked in Sumner from 91-96 and was on the first arriving engine. As we arrived,there was smoke coming from the attic vents. When we gained access to the auto parts store, the negative pressure inside the building sucked the door out of my captain's hand. I'm still amazed it didn't backdraft. Crews attempted to vertically vent but the roof was unsafe. This building was a goner but we did a good job stopping the fire from spreading to other connected buildings. Be safe.
71057177 3 years ago
Great training Film, Big Fire Big Water, two inlet multiversal in the front door, 500 gpm as opposed to that hand line will sure take away that heat. We will either put in enough water to control the fire or it will control us. be safe
toxickavenger 3 years ago
Holy moley...that fireman almost got cooked! He musta been HELLA hot sitting there. Good job knocking this bitch (fire)
on her ass!!
~LauraG.~
DannyPhantom3599 3 years ago
This is a video I will share with everbody at the station, You cannot get a better training aid free than this. And smoke reading WOW :) Thanks For the hard work, God Bless and God speed.
dragonwarrior61 3 years ago
Thank you.
VX2100DV 3 years ago
I bet their pumper got a little cooked!
:)
satfdfireman 3 years ago
Yeah, I would like to have seen pictures of the left side of that Engine when it was all said and done!
uga1709 3 years ago
@uga1709 Lol. Seeing that this occured within the early 90s, the truck might have been a little charred, but today thats not the case. Now our fire apparatus manufacturers pre-treat the paint with heat resistent chemicals that prevent the paint from bubbling up and peeling. Like I said, in the 90s this may not have been done, but today, alot more is done to these trucks than people think.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
The engine got warm but it didn't there was damage to the paint. Seagraves are tough. Take care and be safe
71057177 3 years ago
id say the box was diffinatly full. Granted it was 93 but im amazed at the amount of firefighters on scene. i think the most i saw at one time was 5 or 6. Those boys had to be tired at the end of the day. Im sure they had fun though. Hey its better than no fire at all and diffinatly better than taking a shit medic run.
biddle44 3 years ago
haha amen davepaff
Psimp114 3 years ago
i get a stronger stream when i urinate in the morning! maybe we should start reading some books on fire stream management! i'm actually sad for seeing this, we can only hope no one got hurt.
hfd89 3 years ago
3 words: Surround and Drown
davepaff 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he'd have been able ti knock that flash back if he wasnt a pussy and hit it in the throat with the straight stream......to think pussy fog patterns would knock that back is ignorance
terpsterror 3 years ago
He shouldn't have been inside the collapse zone but you can't protect yourself with a straight stream you douche-bag. Nothing was going to hold back that fire. It was a lost cause. If FF take anything away from this, it should be to establish collapse zones and stay out once operations go defensive.
MoodyGroove 3 years ago
Maybe if they went in and put the fire out when they first arived it wouldn't have gotten so bad. And remember, BIG FIRE, BIG WATER. Not a small line with a fog nozzle.
jcityfire 3 years ago
those two were not engaged in supression, at that point they were trying to PROTECT themselves from the heat, the only way to cool the air rapidly around themselves is with a fog pattern and even with that they still were forced back. Lucky they were not hurt. But i do agree that once that fire got lose its time for some big water. Would have like to seen someone on that deck gun.
sid154 3 years ago
@terpsterror Hate to break it to ya, but when a flash happens, all you can do is hold your hose and get out. You can't stop a flash unless you are able to get water on the core components and materials burning which would mean that you would be steamed like a lobster because a flash occurs when all items in a contained area hit ignition temp simultaniously meaning that yiou better get out or get cooked. Fog is better than straight stream. Ever heard the saying "Right to Fight, Left for Life"?
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
One stubborn fire. Great footage.
XposedNerve 3 years ago
Am I seeing green smoke at 1:42 or does that come because of the oldness of the film?
BarneySaysHi 3 years ago
It was green. Sort of strange. I have a few other fires to post where that also happened.
VX2100DV 3 years ago
actually flashovers are now being seen at temps as low as 400-500 degrees. This is because of the products of combustion in the manufactured materials that we use today.
pacech451 3 years ago
flash over temp = 900-1200 degrees F
brittn987 3 years ago
I'm just a rookie but Im with the British guy. If there were no lives in jeopardy, I think a more defensive approach would have been a much more wise decision. I wonder if the paint was peeling off the left side of that truck when they were done? lol
brittn987 3 years ago
very cool video, I am a new firefighter from ohio and just graduated from the ohio fire academy, looking forward to getting on a department and getting into some fire.
Bish1up 3 years ago
Best video i have seen so far, The only thing i am going to say is that hose team in front when it flashed over, THEY GOT BALLS,
firewarden92 3 years ago
Let be honest, this Fire dept sure took their sweet time about putting out this fire. Is this a small town Fire dept?
whaledog77 3 years ago
At the time of the fire yes. They merged into a much larger fire district a few years ago.
VX2100DV 3 years ago
This building was going into flashover. Flashover is 700 degrees. EVERYTHING except for metal burns at flash over. The fire dept really could do nothing except for try and cool it down. I dont thinkl there was much they could do.
bladebomb 3 years ago
Since when is there a stigma of "small town fire dept"? This fire took out a whole city block, I've been on fires with this much heat, with four, five and sometimes six alarms in. Even with all that manpower and "fire power" at the scene sometimes you still lose the battle, the bldgs were built when people said "what's a fire code"? At the time of this fire, Sumner was a pretty damn good FD, and I don't even work there so there is no personal bias.
allsteer40 3 years ago
Hey allsteer40 there no personal bias but let be honest, this is a small town Fire dept. It that simple, You can get upset and pissed off but the truth is truth, It a small town operation and they're slow.
whaledog77 3 years ago
Who's pissed off? You guys read too much into the comments. Try telling the FDNY, or Houston they're slow on a big one like this and see what happens...
allsteer40 3 years ago
@whaledog77 HAVE YOU BEEN IN A FLASHOVER OR BACKDRAFT? HAVE YOU BEEN INTERIOR? HAVE YOU USED A STRAIGHT BORE? HAVE YOU HAD FF1 AND FF2? HAVE YOU FACED THE ADRENALINE RUSH? HAVE YOU PERFORMED UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER THIS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE? NO? THEN SHUT UP AND RECOGNIZE THAT THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD. FIRE IS FIRE AND IT BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY EVERY TIME THE TONES DROP. IF YOU DONT APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS OF US FIREFIGHTERS, THEN SHOULD YOU EVER NEED US, DONT CALL, JACKASS!
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
@whaledog77 They were protecting themselves from the flash when it occurred. I am a firefighter and for those of you who say "Well, you took too long and blah blah" COME DO OUR JOB AND THEN SEE HOW MUCH EASIER IT IS SAID THAN DONE PLEASE! A 3 alarm fire isnt a small backyard brush fire, dude. It is a very hard fire to put out. Also given that conditions were unsafe for an aggressive interior attack meaning that they were not able to actually hit the core of the heavy fire. Think before you post.
nsrailfann4life91 1 year ago
wow, great footage at 3:11, that's what happens when we push air into a big fire choked out by smoke. Remember big fire needs big water(2.5") and a smooth bore for penetration. Also remember risks and benefits, that structure may be a total loss (hard to tell how big it is etc.) and therefor may not be worth entering. Looked like fun though ;)
705west 3 years ago
you know, this is no laughing matter!!! where i live we too have lost much of our history due to fire!! one was an old factory,that the OWNER SET ABLAZE TO TRY AND COLLECT INSURANCE. NOW HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT?????????
dccmjlj 3 years ago
I don't know of any who got away with it. They always get caught.
VX2100DV 3 years ago
anything less than a 2.5 is useless on this fire load, fog or staight stream. This is where that good old fire flow formula comes into play. Stay safe
philtheplumber1 3 years ago
FUCK FOG STREAMS
hiddenshadow118 3 years ago
AMEN!!!
Blitz350 3 years ago
Great footage,but from a British firefighters point of view it just makes me shake my head in dismay. This sort of wanton disregard for health and safety is one of the reasons that so many US firefighters die in the line of duty. What is the point of standing next to a blaze of that magnitude when it can be tackled more effectively from a distance. It was an empty building for gods sake!! In the UK we would have surrounded the building with ground monitors and all gone home to fight another day.
scottyboy181 3 years ago
Who died here?
Blitz350 3 years ago
read the smoke--smoke is fuel-brown color-rapid flow-flash is going to happen-watch again and learn -classic read here -be safe with gods speed-29 years here retired -
koolkrate 3 years ago
dANG.
NinjaWarrior0893 3 years ago
big fire = big water. Even w/ the small line...straight stream! No fog! As a brother mentioned..elevated master stream at street level shooting up an in. Don't know how the one brother "didn't see it doing that." Classic progression of row stores or strip mall fires with improper water volume application/tactics. Rapid roof ventilation, vent the front windows, force the rear doors. Write off well involved exposures and make a stand from side to side. Not front to back.
alsfirefighter 3 years ago
masterstream would not work. look at the live wires! you hit that and that's all she wrote!
NORTHVIEW694 3 years ago
a 2 and a half would be a start,how about a nice big fat tower ladder at level with the store front making the fire cry for momma.oh yeah ,has anybody ever heard of a trench cut?
nikerider124 3 years ago
a 2 and a half would be a start,how about a nice big fat tower ladder at level with the store front making the fire cry for momma.oh yeah ,has anybody ever heard of a trench cut?
nikerider124 3 years ago
How about a 2 and a half on that sucker with a smooth bore. Oh, and VENT, VENT, VENT!!!!
scote3232 3 years ago
What's with the fog stream?
Blitz350 3 years ago
trying to cool down a bit so he could try to reposition is what I'm thinking
1LSUredneck 3 years ago
yeeeah lets park the fuckin truck 10 feet from the damn door thats a bright idea and if there where only 2 people on that line is fucking rediculous set a damn blitz fire on that thing and leave it where is the damn ladder truck with some roof vent poor command
RaginPotato 3 years ago
ok, ill agree TO SOME EXTENT-yes, the engine was a little close (but a little more than 10 ft.away)-i also agree to put some master streams on it- BUT -what good would roof vent do? THATS HOW WE GET PEOPLE KILLED-the building is meer moments away from ventinig itself. SO why put guys on the roof to do a job the fire will do. AND-whose to say this town has a ladder truck? besides our ladder, the closest one is 18 mi. away. AND FINALLY TO EVERYONE-this was in '93, we've come along way since then.
sfd915 3 years ago
shiiit we have 2 ladders and a tower im just saying they should have vented quickly if that had been a video from this time that the first thing they should have done im not saying they did horrible job everyone has things that they do differently
RaginPotato 3 years ago
Well if they were going to vent it I hope it was well before the video starts. It self vents at just over 2 minutes in.
705west 3 years ago
ATTN: All firefighters
Where all of your gear it saves lives. It is not heroic to die just because you didn't put on your gear. Live to see your familes another day. There is NO excuse not too.
cookevillefireman 3 years ago
One of the best videos for training purposes I've seen so far, including "reading the smoke", safety issues (engine parked to close, PPE), attack and much more.
rakeman 3 years ago
I remember that fire... great video.
txbreck 3 years ago
so whats with the guy assisting with scba donning, ...he doesn't think his ass will fry when the fire blows out the front of the store? WTF?!
bearznorthCATHY 4 years ago
It is a joy to watch a professional videographer at work (and a nice edit too). You compose the frame so that the drama is clear, and some segments (like the one just after 5:20 with the firemen) I wish I could have as a large print because the composition of the frame is just perfect.
Thank you for capturing the drama and fearsome beauty of the fire. Sad that so much got lost.
johanges 4 years ago 2
Thank you for the comments. I appreciate that greatly. :) And thank you for subscribing! :)
VX2100DV 4 years ago
man how can we prevent these short wiring fires???
chmeme 4 years ago
GREAT FOOTAGE!
7089540230 4 years ago
Thank you.
VX2100DV 4 years ago
Haaa those poor guys on the handline had to scoot outta there... She was cranking out serious BTUs at that point...Ladder pipes and heavy streams are the only ways to go from there!
toastt21 4 years ago
That was definitely a hungry fire, you could tell by the amount of billowing smoke that is wasn't good. As soon as that thing self vented and caught some air it took off. Great video.
scannerboy02 4 years ago
you film and post the most amazing fires i have ever seen! at about 3:20-3:50, it looks pretty scary!
AuntBee09 4 years ago
Thank you. It was scary. That was one of the few times I really didn't feel safe.
VX2100DV 4 years ago
Do you have any footage of the KC's Caboose fire ??
mrdavidjames 4 years ago
Wish I had. I slept through it. :(
VX2100DV 4 years ago
VX-
Nice shot of the flash over and hasty retreat of the crew in front of the window. That inch and 3/4 line just won't do it with such heavy fire.
Bonehead
BoneheadNW 4 years ago
I have yet to witness another flash over that equals this one. I have smaller flash overs on tape that are weak in comparison. I was awed by the power of this event.
VX2100DV 4 years ago