though some idiots complain about it's simplistic story they don't get the obivous intention of this complex world and architecture with seemingly simple yet actually complex characters an example would be their names yet their given well developed personalities. a complex world with a simple but good story.
And don't get me started on the atrocity of cutting literally HALF the picture out so that what they're doing doesn't make as much sense. It was originally scope. Have you seen the pan-and scan version of Close Encounters, where people talk to no-one or there are only noses in the frame because they've chopped it down from cinemascope format (super widescreen)? When visuals are used to tell the story, stuff like that DOES affect the tone and story. P&S Close Encounters and Thief are a P.O.S.
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*sighs* i love the animation, but i personally greatly dislike this version. it's much better with the thief's mental narrative because it always has you chuckling to yourself. otherwise it just looks downright silly. and the music makes it worse.
@UTcommando Wow. If you actually love animation, I can't understand how you could possibly say that. One of the cardinal rules of animation is to SHOW, not talk about it. The inane (sounds drunken at times) muttering by Winters is REDUNDANT. He commits the animation sin of redundantly describing what you're showing/doing. If he was adlibbing, it wasn't a good one. If it was scripted, there's no excuse. I'd lay money you can't give me a single line that adds to character or story. Same for MB.
its intersting how things that are connected get separated into "either or" and "this vs that". The image IS the story and the story IS the image. Both inform each other. An image rich in details and expressive rendering has a history pschology emotional resonance and narrative unto itslef. On-screen images are no exception. American animators rarely get this concept. Good writing comes from good drawing and vice versa. But in visual meduims like animation it starts with the image.
Regarding story, I've seen a concept art drawing which shows Tack in various phases throughout the film, becoming less clown-like and more realistic & handsome. I think that's an interesting approach to character development, to change the design to represent his "growth".
It may not be well executed, but you have to remember that Williams hadn't done any finished shots of Tack in the 2nd half of the film (except for the one where the Witch pulls him down- All else was done by Calvert).
Richard Williams' own vision of this film is anything but terrible. Of course, whether you like its style is a matter of personal taste, but the original, not quite finshed "The Thief and The Cobbler" is an animation masterpiece.
I've seen the original. I actually saw it with Richard WIlliams.
It is no masterpiece. It's a piece of art, yes. But as a film? No. It had no story. Even Williams' called it his "mega-ego trip (on video)," which few who worked on it would disagree.
I like Williams commercials, but his feature work (especially the awful Roger Rabbit and the terrible animation in it) leaves a lot to be desired.
Hmmm... I agree Roger Rabbit does leave a lot to be desired (even though it's an entertaining film)... and I do think the action in "Thief" drags at times. But in this case, the marvelous animation more than makes up for it. And there IS a story... a purposefully simple story, which is mostly there just as a framework for the spectacular animation. That's what I meant by calling it an 'animation masterpiece'.
It may not be perfect from a story perspective, but story wasn't the main point. It depends on one's taste, but to me, the animation itself is fascinating enough to make up for obvious weaknesses in some parts of the story telling. The whole project is fascinating.
And it doesn't surprice me that Williams called it his "mega-ego trip" (which video was that by the way? Before or after the closing of his studio?). That's what it was all along, and it was intended to be.
Animation has NEVER overcome story problems. No one cares about animation. I love it, but I'd rather have a great story with stick figures that makes me feel something than a bunch of wanker animation with little story or character i can't care about.
"No one cares about animation."? Well, you'll find a lot of people in this world disagreeing with you about that. I, too, think story is extremely important as a general rule... but there is never a rule without exceptions. This film, unfinished as it may be, is one of those exceptions. Speaking for me personally, I was actually intrigued by the characters; and, more often than not, completely engrossed in the visuals and the action.
Surpricingly enough, since I'm usually very story-critical. But in this case I found the story telling (generally) to work to the film's benefit. There were parts which definitely needed some work/polishing, but then again, most of the main parts played as an absorbing visual experience. To me, at least.
Regarding the importance of story in general, I'm not the only one thinking that story can sometimes be over-emphazised. Famous animators Bill Plympton and Patrick Smith discuss this very point in some recent posts on their 'Scribble Junkies' blog, arguing that many great films (both animation and live action) are first and foremost VISUAL experiences... and that a complex story can at times be a hindrance in focusing on the characters and the visuals. Guess it's all a matter of how you view it.
StoryTELLING is certainly more important than story alone...but it is, even with their films, the primary concern. Characters and their personalities are the vehicles through which the stories are told. Plympton (who's a friend of mine) and Smith (who I've never heard of) would agree with that.
And it's certainly more easy to deal with on a short than a feature.
But Williams' film had neither story OR character. Just nice paintings moving around. I say hang it on a wall.
They DID talk in the various released versions, but Williams always intended for both characters to be silent protagonists, and they only ended up talking as the result of horrible amounts of recutting after Williams was kicked off the project. In any case, the dialogue given to them, particularly in the Miramax cut, is absolutely awful, and both Tack and the thief work MUCH better as silent protagonists. It's one of MANY reasons I find the Miramax cut to be quite unwatchable.
This movie is like a trip. Seriously. I used to watch this movie alot when I was really young. Now looking back at it, it probably changed the way I thought about things to how how I am now...
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hey, dont Tack and the Thief talk??? in the one i saw they talked non stop. it was like almost the best movie i'd ever seen! the Thief was funny as hell and Tack's voice is just wut i'd picture Link's voice to sound like if they ever made a movie of Zelda
Yea they talked in the one Miramax released for video but in the original which stays more true to the artists vision, they dont talk. This is the one that was used for this video.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
u think the Miramax version is on dvd? i hope so. i like it better when i can here they'r voices. and not only that, thier's another big thing missing in this, the sound effects and the loud music, well thats how i remember it. to me, this scene seems so much plainer than on the Miramax version, u know?
More things isn't always better, simplicity can have a better affect too. For instance the lack of voices for Tack is better because at the end when he finally DOES say something ("and I love you") it's sweet and causes an impact. The lack of voice for the thief though is good also because instead of having to focus on his words the viewer has to focus on his movement and reaction, causing one to not just get direct answers but think on what he's up to.
Not surprising, considering Richard Williams animated both movies, and was working on both at the same time. The scene from Raggedy Ann is incredibly similar to this one, some of the shots are almost identical.
I have the version where they talk. Oh man I remember this seen when they began grabing each others back "Big trouble, BIG trouble, REALLY BIG TROUBLE" Also got to love the thief later on in the movie "Gotta get the ruby off the fat guy's head..."
PLEASE DON'T READ THIS. You will get kissed on the nearest possible Friday by the love of your life. Tomorrow will be the best day of your life. However, if you don't post this comment to at least 3 videos, you will die within 2 days. Copy and paste this, to be saved" ugg its stupid i know
Is this Mark 1 of the Recobbled Cut?
Dukeobelding 3 months ago
thi is great but i actually typed in inspiring videos on you tube and this came up?????????????????
pinkdreamer1000 7 months ago in playlist Art-Inspiring Stuff, Part II
though some idiots complain about it's simplistic story they don't get the obivous intention of this complex world and architecture with seemingly simple yet actually complex characters an example would be their names yet their given well developed personalities. a complex world with a simple but good story.
dadadaJOE 9 months ago
Trippy
Mezut360 11 months ago
And don't get me started on the atrocity of cutting literally HALF the picture out so that what they're doing doesn't make as much sense. It was originally scope. Have you seen the pan-and scan version of Close Encounters, where people talk to no-one or there are only noses in the frame because they've chopped it down from cinemascope format (super widescreen)? When visuals are used to tell the story, stuff like that DOES affect the tone and story. P&S Close Encounters and Thief are a P.O.S.
halfvader0007 1 year ago
I weep for the animators who had to work on this
Utubeblows 1 year ago
Thief FTW
homer3443 1 year ago
Hey, everybody. I was wondering if anyone knew where I can find the "recobbled cut" version of this movie on dvd.
PLEASE RESPOND!!!
Thanks
MrJoyhoyful 1 year ago
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Hey, everybody. I was wondering if anybody knew where I can find the "recobbled cut" version of this movie on dvd.
PLEASE RESPOND!!!
Thanks!!
MrJoyhoyful 1 year ago
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*sighs* i love the animation, but i personally greatly dislike this version. it's much better with the thief's mental narrative because it always has you chuckling to yourself. otherwise it just looks downright silly. and the music makes it worse.
UTcommando 1 year ago
@UTcommando Wow. If you actually love animation, I can't understand how you could possibly say that. One of the cardinal rules of animation is to SHOW, not talk about it. The inane (sounds drunken at times) muttering by Winters is REDUNDANT. He commits the animation sin of redundantly describing what you're showing/doing. If he was adlibbing, it wasn't a good one. If it was scripted, there's no excuse. I'd lay money you can't give me a single line that adds to character or story. Same for MB.
halfvader0007 1 year ago 3
its intersting how things that are connected get separated into "either or" and "this vs that". The image IS the story and the story IS the image. Both inform each other. An image rich in details and expressive rendering has a history pschology emotional resonance and narrative unto itslef. On-screen images are no exception. American animators rarely get this concept. Good writing comes from good drawing and vice versa. But in visual meduims like animation it starts with the image.
o82774 2 years ago 3
Regarding story, I've seen a concept art drawing which shows Tack in various phases throughout the film, becoming less clown-like and more realistic & handsome. I think that's an interesting approach to character development, to change the design to represent his "growth".
It may not be well executed, but you have to remember that Williams hadn't done any finished shots of Tack in the 2nd half of the film (except for the one where the Witch pulls him down- All else was done by Calvert).
LaukkuTheGreit 2 years ago 3
OMG finally, i was wondering what this movie was called because i had it when i was little. i thought it was "zigzag" or something. LOL
PhysicsLord321 2 years ago
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" Williams was kicked off the project."
He wasn't "kicked" off the project. He was given money, resources, and time to complete the film, and he squandered it.
It's his fault. It's a terrible film, but I do agree, I'd rather have seen HIS terrible film than this mess.
pkring 2 years ago
Richard Williams' own vision of this film is anything but terrible. Of course, whether you like its style is a matter of personal taste, but the original, not quite finshed "The Thief and The Cobbler" is an animation masterpiece.
Mesterius1 2 years ago
I've seen the original. I actually saw it with Richard WIlliams.
It is no masterpiece. It's a piece of art, yes. But as a film? No. It had no story. Even Williams' called it his "mega-ego trip (on video)," which few who worked on it would disagree.
I like Williams commercials, but his feature work (especially the awful Roger Rabbit and the terrible animation in it) leaves a lot to be desired.
pkring 2 years ago
Hmmm... I agree Roger Rabbit does leave a lot to be desired (even though it's an entertaining film)... and I do think the action in "Thief" drags at times. But in this case, the marvelous animation more than makes up for it. And there IS a story... a purposefully simple story, which is mostly there just as a framework for the spectacular animation. That's what I meant by calling it an 'animation masterpiece'.
Mesterius1 2 years ago
It may not be perfect from a story perspective, but story wasn't the main point. It depends on one's taste, but to me, the animation itself is fascinating enough to make up for obvious weaknesses in some parts of the story telling. The whole project is fascinating.
And it doesn't surprice me that Williams called it his "mega-ego trip" (which video was that by the way? Before or after the closing of his studio?). That's what it was all along, and it was intended to be.
Mesterius1 2 years ago
Animation has NEVER overcome story problems. No one cares about animation. I love it, but I'd rather have a great story with stick figures that makes me feel something than a bunch of wanker animation with little story or character i can't care about.
pkring 2 years ago
"No one cares about animation."? Well, you'll find a lot of people in this world disagreeing with you about that. I, too, think story is extremely important as a general rule... but there is never a rule without exceptions. This film, unfinished as it may be, is one of those exceptions. Speaking for me personally, I was actually intrigued by the characters; and, more often than not, completely engrossed in the visuals and the action.
Mesterius1 2 years ago 2
Surpricingly enough, since I'm usually very story-critical. But in this case I found the story telling (generally) to work to the film's benefit. There were parts which definitely needed some work/polishing, but then again, most of the main parts played as an absorbing visual experience. To me, at least.
Mesterius1 2 years ago 3
Regarding the importance of story in general, I'm not the only one thinking that story can sometimes be over-emphazised. Famous animators Bill Plympton and Patrick Smith discuss this very point in some recent posts on their 'Scribble Junkies' blog, arguing that many great films (both animation and live action) are first and foremost VISUAL experiences... and that a complex story can at times be a hindrance in focusing on the characters and the visuals. Guess it's all a matter of how you view it.
Mesterius1 2 years ago
StoryTELLING is certainly more important than story alone...but it is, even with their films, the primary concern. Characters and their personalities are the vehicles through which the stories are told. Plympton (who's a friend of mine) and Smith (who I've never heard of) would agree with that.
And it's certainly more easy to deal with on a short than a feature.
But Williams' film had neither story OR character. Just nice paintings moving around. I say hang it on a wall.
pkring 2 years ago
arent tack and th theif supposed to talk i remeber them talking
KelseyLauren712 2 years ago
They DID talk in the various released versions, but Williams always intended for both characters to be silent protagonists, and they only ended up talking as the result of horrible amounts of recutting after Williams was kicked off the project. In any case, the dialogue given to them, particularly in the Miramax cut, is absolutely awful, and both Tack and the thief work MUCH better as silent protagonists. It's one of MANY reasons I find the Miramax cut to be quite unwatchable.
TehPogo 2 years ago 3
ah...vincent price as zig zag....no better voice than that one for him!
secretwaters 2 years ago 2
wow i used to watch this video soo much when i was little! and i just remembered the title and ive been looking for it for ever!
eviltrolldudets 2 years ago 2
Dude, this movie was mostly made in the early 70s. It just didn't get produced because the animator ran out of money.
sanddollarscholar 3 years ago
Nice
Scorpion123Kid 3 years ago
This movie is like a trip. Seriously. I used to watch this movie alot when I was really young. Now looking back at it, it probably changed the way I thought about things to how how I am now...
chrisryan1229 3 years ago 3
This this movie on DVD?
gagbonkers2 3 years ago
The Miramax one is on VHS (I don't know about DVD), but people have been saying they might put the original on DVD <3
LuckyBlackCatXIII 2 years ago
that effect is really awesome! How made this at that date!
anthonyna 3 years ago
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hey, dont Tack and the Thief talk??? in the one i saw they talked non stop. it was like almost the best movie i'd ever seen! the Thief was funny as hell and Tack's voice is just wut i'd picture Link's voice to sound like if they ever made a movie of Zelda
videojudge01 3 years ago
Yea they talked in the one Miramax released for video but in the original which stays more true to the artists vision, they dont talk. This is the one that was used for this video.
CoolDrMoney 3 years ago 4
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u think the Miramax version is on dvd? i hope so. i like it better when i can here they'r voices. and not only that, thier's another big thing missing in this, the sound effects and the loud music, well thats how i remember it. to me, this scene seems so much plainer than on the Miramax version, u know?
videojudge01 3 years ago
More things isn't always better, simplicity can have a better affect too. For instance the lack of voices for Tack is better because at the end when he finally DOES say something ("and I love you") it's sweet and causes an impact. The lack of voice for the thief though is good also because instead of having to focus on his words the viewer has to focus on his movement and reaction, causing one to not just get direct answers but think on what he's up to.
But that's just me XD
LuckyBlackCatXIII 2 years ago 19
kind of like the pantomine chaplin did in his silent movies.
SteevDragon67 2 years ago
Exactly! That was a great example, thank you! C:
LuckyBlackCatXIII 2 years ago
Reminds me of a scene from the Raggedy Ann and Andy cartoon.
LisaGreywords 4 years ago
Not surprising, considering Richard Williams animated both movies, and was working on both at the same time. The scene from Raggedy Ann is incredibly similar to this one, some of the shots are almost identical.
akumacornflakes 2 years ago
I LOVE THIS MOVIE :D
grew up on it lol
hollylolly15 4 years ago 7
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this is the trippiest movie ever haha you can sure tell whhich kids are gonna be drug addicts when they get old
whisperinsilence 4 years ago
Yeah because I adored this movie as a kid and ....oh would you look at that I've been completely clean all my life :q
It isn't trippy, it's amazing animation at it's best
LuckyBlackCatXIII 2 years ago
This used to be my favorite movie of all time. Now watching this after ten years I feel like I'm on some sort of trip.
jasonandgene 4 years ago
Me too!
chrisryan1229 3 years ago
i used to love this movie, its goign on my netflix. good memories
12hamiar 4 years ago 4
Is this Pan and Scan format? If so, why? WHY WAS IT INVENTED????? I HATE IT!!!! Anyways, this video's great!
Esspresso01 4 years ago
I like the laughing guys at the end!
Drewsel 4 years ago 2
i luvv this movie especially this part x]
AnimeLuv727 4 years ago
you should post the part where the thief gose to goes to steal the golden balls and uses that pole
titan1990omega 4 years ago 2
this was my FAVORITE movie ever!
FamousLastWordsxOx 4 years ago
This is a master work, the imaginative scope is breathtaking.
edtaytobjo66 4 years ago
I used to love this movie havn't seen it in ages.
loisNclark11 4 years ago
such alot of memories
cooldude311 4 years ago
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I have the version where they talk. Oh man I remember this seen when they began grabing each others back "Big trouble, BIG trouble, REALLY BIG TROUBLE" Also got to love the thief later on in the movie "Gotta get the ruby off the fat guy's head..."
OneWingedLight 4 years ago
actually it waz "Problem,BIG problem,REALLY BIG PROBLEM!" XD
LeeFan13 4 years ago
XD thanks for correcting me, I actually watched it a couple of days ago and saw I was wrong. XD
OneWingedLight 4 years ago
your welcome, i seen this movie at least 50 times and i still dont get tired of it! ☺
LeeFan13 4 years ago
The whole starcase and pathway sequences are amazing to watch.
EMaster2006 4 years ago
this movie looks pretty cool
demoman87 4 years ago
too bad the quality
roxonogueira 4 years ago
i love how he stretches his 'long bony but beautiful toes'
dancequeen007 4 years ago
A ver cuando los responsables se dignan de una maldita vez a reeditar, masterizar, resonorizar, reestranar cinematograficamente y en IMAX,..........
meninhodemanteiga 4 years ago
such memories
omgaperson 4 years ago
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PLEASE DON'T READ THIS. You will get kissed on the nearest possible Friday by the love of your life. Tomorrow will be the best day of your life. However, if you don't post this comment to at least 3 videos, you will die within 2 days. Copy and paste this, to be saved" ugg its stupid i know
x0xMACCAx0x 5 years ago
i fucking love this film!! this and a nightmare before christmas are trhe greatest childhood memory films u could have
wammajam 5 years ago
Gotta get the ruby off the fat guy's head...
NeedBinoculars 5 years ago
i remember that!
LeeFan13 5 years ago
Wheres the voices?
Kimberleighjeane 5 years ago
That was in the redone version.
CountTentacula 5 years ago
one of those forgotten gems of animations!
you smell like cobbler
FancyUnicorn 5 years ago
This still makes me lol all the time know matter what how many time I see it.
frozenflame1990 5 years ago
A beautiful scene in one of my favorite animated films!
ryuuseipro 5 years ago