Fry and Hitchens Discussion 4/10 (Sound Fixed)

[TomVodkaCollins]

I feel sorry for that poor woman. Trying to moderate Hitchens and Fry in concert is like herding cats. X^D

[british123able]

muslims are pushed to the ground and spat at? thats not true. no one would dare to do such a thing. that woman is telling lies, no wonder the books she has wrote are flops

[SpookyJohnathan]

@british123able She was quoting her MP.

[british123able]

@SpookyJohnathan puhleeez

[Flowerblood]

Haha, I love Christopher Hitchens' description of tree frogs behaving like moral idiots.

[majordbag2]

My personal view of blasmphemy, if you don't like it then change the channel and fuck off, you don't see me going into churches to tell them that they can't speak ill of athiests!

[Flowerblood]

@majordbag2 EXACTLY.

[MrBandshell]

Great stuff. Hitchens barely lets anyone speak though.

[GoodBadButNotUgly]

When I was a kid I was told by my mother, father and priests that "GOD" means, good-orderly-direction, which sounds nice, but when I decided to study religion and the bible etc, I soon came to the conclusion that "GOD" means to me that "GOD" means "genocide-on-demand" Please religious believers don't say that your god is all loving when in the bible it is there for all to read in black and white that god caused genocide, rape, murder, incest, famine, plagues etc etc. C'mon give me a break.

[Kan2209]

Either gays find earthquake zones, gays cause earhquakes, OR, it's all a load of smelly horse shit.

[MamaMario13]

@Kan2209 hmm...just a hunch...but....id probably say the last one (just out of a random guess)

[MamaMario13]

if gays cause earthquakes does that mean they have superpowers?

[BloggerMusicMan]

@MamaMario13

LOL XD

I never thought of it like that.

[MamaMario13]

@BloggerMusicMan well c'mon captain planet and superman were always taking it up the pooper

haha

[Kan2209]

@MamaMario13 It means god wants to rock their world, or god begins masturbating in his bed so the world shakes. Or then he wants gays to die along sidewith everyone in the town, or jsut punishes a random town in the world, gayenablers I think they were called in the bible? This is also what Jesus would do, kill thousands of people if two men or women love each other too much..

[MCAMVP]

the tree frog example was awesome.

[elevengiant]

the best line: Created sick, commanded to be well

[facepalmization]

And why is it that "governments are believers, george bush is a believer, usama is a believer" etc etc...? All the while, I can not for the best of me find a single "believer" on the street? Working in international business, I meet a lot of people from around the world, and this is a LIE the woman is serving you. Religion is FIRMLY on the decline in all parts of the world (yes, including america).

[facepalmization]

Belief in "god" is the greatest evil and threat to humankind ever.

It's a disease. All religion must die, or humanity will die.

[jerryhello100]

I hate how Christopher always says that we "are partially formed animals", as if evolution has some destination. We are fully formed, horses are fully formed, earthworms are fully formed; any animal that works, and is able to reproduce it is fully formed. Once we slough the snake skin of religion, or stop fearing death, we'll be no more fully formed, and no higher on any hierarchy.

That bothers me, other than that he's brilliant.

[babyshambler]

@jerryhello100

I take he means we have not reached our full potential and can go further as a species, but only by abandoning various weights around our necks, like religion.

[jerryhello100]

@babyshambler No, we can only wish to go further as a species, we are what we are and we've always been. We can dream and idealize, but ultimately we are shackled by our biological limits. The ability to think of an ideal creature, and wish we were that, is where the fallacy that evolution is directed that way comes from. We are fully formed however.

[babyshambler]

@jerryhello100

Your talking about physical form, and in that sense you're right. We are as evolved as a slug and t'other way round. What I'm saying is that we have the potential to expand our minds further.

[jerryhello100]

@babyshambler I'm convinced that the brain is biological and physical. As long as we have this body we are liable to genocides and holocausts and religious idiocy. There have been eras of great enlightenment, but then we slide back into superstition. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to keep it away. Everything in history has played out time and time again; there is no way away from it.

[babyshambler]

@jerryhello100

I agree - or at least until (like Freud has said) we stop fearing death.

[lewistaylor1965]

experiencing it

[Back7sword]

What's the good in witnessing an event horizon if your not going to remember it?

[equsnarnd]

@Back7sword For the experience of it. If the argument is that experience is only of value if you remember it then I invite you to remember everything you've experienced. Can't do it? Then is all that you experience that you can't remember valueless? Ultimately you'll be dead. No memory. Does this make life worthless?

[Back7sword]

@equsnarnd Fast reply I know. I have quite a good memory and yes I remember anything of significance in some detail but thats me. Yes if I know someone will not remember a conversation a week later then it feels very empty to me and it will be half hearted on my part. "No memory. Does this make life worthless?" Pretty much. But I am a human and my biology dissuades me from idly sitting around in my own waste. The desire to pursue success and self satisfaction is too great.

[equsnarnd]

If you had the chance to date the women of your dreams once and would later have no memory of it how would it change your perception and would you choose to do it forgo the pleasure?

[equsnarnd]

@Back7sword My point was that not remembering something doesn't destroy the value of it as you experience it. I cannot recall every minute of skiing down innumerable mountains but it doesn't dissuade me from looking forward to the next run. What would make a trip to the event horizon desirable is the shear unique value of it. Though it is exceedingly interesting to ponder the following question:

[Back7sword]

@equsnarnd Your talking about the difference between having a recollection of a past experience of which you would carry away a positive attitude towards a place, person, sound, smell etc. which effects your perception of any subsequent involvement in that environment and complete non existence (which is what I believe awaits us) The benefits of positive reinforcement during our lives are clear because it will effect our choices over the years.

Continued

[Back7sword]

@Back7sword In order to increase our chances or reproducing. What happens the days before our death really has no significance to me. If I am tortured for 48 hours before I die I will not remember it (probably) and has no bearing. On the other hand I just lost my best friend to Leukemia after a 3 year battle and that allowed plenty of time for contemplation and sleepless nights. If im being non hypercritical though it shouldn't matter either way. Time is irrelevant. continued

[Back7sword]

@Back7sword If I had a month to live. I would jump into a black hole or volcano just for the hell of it but I would not do it to be the "first Guy" to do it.

[equsnarnd]

@Back7sword Everyone/Anyone who jumps into a black hole will be a first. But you didn't answer the question about the date.

[Back7sword]

@equsnarnd If there is no residual memory or even the possibility of accessing the state of mind I was in. Then no. All I'm getting from the event is the increased chance of catching an STD. There is no reward. It may as well happen to someone else in Alaska. If the rest of the world knew it happened then at least I'd have something to brag about

[blaqueboy]

Not to be a hater, this woman's voice reminds me of Oblina from AHHHH Real Monsters.

[equallyeasilyfuqyou]

@blaqueboy haahahhaa

[menya1978]

wow!!!!

[ouchmycrank]

Magnificent. Thank you for this upload.

[KINGROOSTER45]

if that's true about Fry then it gives me great hope- i have a fair amount of intelligence but a terrible reckless nature and i've struggled to get my degree finished. Hail the slackers!

[annikee59]

While I thoroughly enjoy discussions, Hitchens monopolizes and holds forth as Buckley used to do. He's a verbal bully.

[annikee59]

While I thoroughly enjoy discussions, Hitchens monopolizes and holds forth as Buckley used to do. He's a verbal bully.

[Golkarian]

@annikee59 that can be annoying with Stephen Fry, though he gets to make his full point, and it's an absolutely necessary skill if one is to appear on Fox News.

[mik99D]

Stephen Fry was chucked out (sent down) from his undergraduate course at university. He never completed his degree. All his knowledge is half baked stories and other peoples phrases. What my wife calls a "Reader's Digest" knowledge. I still like him though and have read most of his novels.  Hitchens is more classically educated and it shows.

[mojo972]

yuk!

[deadyeti76]

Stephen Fry has a 2:1 from queen's college, cambridge

in english lit.

[exdeath18o]

All accounts I can find point to the fact Fry obtained his degree. He was however thrown out of secondary school. Also I find the idea that only people with a university degree can possess "real" knowledge, well I find it stupid and lacking knowledge itself.

[cockohoop69]

@exdeath18o Hear Hear!!

[beceno999]

you couldn't be more right

[redjove2000]

@mik99d I think you've done a great job of demonstrating "readers digest" knowledge yourself. Well done!

[mik99D]

Yup! How do you think I spotted it? Guilty as charged!

[cockohoop69]

@redjove2000 Nice rebuttal

[cockohoop69]

@mik99D Nonsense!!

[mik99D]

Here is a clue on my provenance. Fry = my sister's age, She was at Newnham college (Cambridge) as a mature undergrad, and studied English there. Fry tried three times to get his degree finished. He was sent down and changed colleges until he managed to get it (at the age of c. 30), I know of no-one else given that amount of tries.

[cockohoop69]

I do 1 person in my Uni repeated every year once and his third twice!..the last I heard he was still their. Plus if what you say is true, he didn't fail for a lack of intelligence but maby a lack of effort.

[mik99D]

Yeah. There was one guy who showed up in my second year (which was the third year of the course) whom I had never seen. He managed to fail his lab work by never turning up. I believe his parents were ready for his graduation (they had been sending him money although he had a full grant). He still hadn't passed his first year courses (he thought he was too clever to attend) and after we graduated, he was signed up as a part timer desperately trying to finish his first year. He failed!

[richybinns]

And your point is? the smartest guy I ever worked with, and many of his peers had PhDs had a 3rd. A piece of paper is just that, and not necessarily a reflection of ones intellect.

[VeroniqueCG]

Like Wackid89 I love the sound of the voices of both these men. I also really like what they say and wish I had been in England at the time to have attended the event.

Very easy listening and with a smile on my dial.

Hitchens is just 'the hitch'. Not really rude just noisy and opinionated and can't resist being mouthy. Fry is as delightful as ever. Prodigious knowledge. The two together are an absolute treat.

[MrSalamander7]

No one is impressed by your ability to put the same silly three-word comment on multiple videos.

[Alecio24]

whos the lady?

[SteveDurnin]

Joan Bakewell.

[keylimer314]

Bakewell ..an ex- Tv presenter, hence her slightly shrill CAMBRIDGE accent. I don't think I'm being ungentlemanly to add; she was a lover of Harold Pinter so I consider her to be a fine fellow

[Mooktopia]

fry > hitchens

[jamezmon]

brilliant

[jinkedful]

hitchens < fry!

[Xigano1]

Mmmhhhh,

Hitchens wordplay at the end went down like cream :-)

[SamCocknose]

Hitchens is too good, but he loves the sound of his own voice, even though Fry's is that bit more soothing.

[wackid89]

Their larynx's are like harpsichords to mine ears...

[AdhocBloke]

I have to say I agree. His interruptions were alittle irritating, luckily Fry took it rather well and the "debate" as a whole is thoroughly enjoyable.

[H1PBS]

Hitchens is great but he does need to shut up somewhat and let Fry get a word in edgeways!

[mosostow]

As brilliant as Hitchens is, he is incredibly rude to his interviewers/fellow speakers.

I think he is in a perpetual belief that his opinions are so brilliant and correct that they simply must be heard at the expense of good manners.

I know the type.

[fctchk]

Whenever rubbishing religion, opinion IS always correct; so Hitchens can not be faulted for believing so.

[Slabbers]

Hitchens is indeed in love with the sound of his own voice; however he does, as a career, put himself up in opposition to a seemingly unending catalogue of idiots in the defence of his ideas. Maybe I'm wrong, but on Youtube at least, I've not seen many other discussions where his opponents weren't worth interupting... I forgive him when he so rarely meets someone who can take him on on his own terms. I'm sure they both fully respect each other's admirable eloquence, clarity and fair-mindedness.

[SidandCoke]

I think the point is that the arguments from religous apoogists is so easy to shoot holes in so of course he alwasy looks smart. Who would you have him debate-the one where he debates his brother is enjoyable

[wmdip]

1) He is smart.

Actually, I'd have him debate the devil, his brother or (interestingly) himself. He does love the sound of his own voice.

It is incredible that he can be as amusing as one of Britain's foremost comedians while being serious.

2) He always goes on too long or suddenly stops and then continues so as to fully explain himself once his alcohol addled mind gets it together. would be nice o hear Fry alone but so is this as is life. Enjoy

It

[vernonpage]

Hitchens is by far the greater philosopher but Fry is the storyteller with a classical background. The two are well matched but rambling down separate paths.

[nigerlover18]

Of course, he's getting paid an immense sum for putting himself out there (debates, events like this). Still, its a worthy tradeoff of him having to hear his own voice since hes also getting the message out there in an eloquent way

[ryko26]

I travelled to Hay with him once, sharing a car. He sat in the front and smoked all the way from the London to Wales. Of course he never once asked if any of the other passengers in the car were bothered by this. I doubt it even crossed his mighty mind.

[dantheman2711]

hitchens or fry?

[ryko26]

Ooops! Hitchens!

[erniedingoshat]

Fry is most lovable as his furry character Melchett; I just want to hear a BEHHHHH! Great to have such a funny yet educated man debate someone of the calibre of Hitchens.

[Rissoleking]

Really more of a discussion than a debate... but I agree, its brilliant to hear.

[erniedingoshat]

My mistake, wrong word.

[Rissoleking]

Actually it does get a bit more 'debate-y' (now THAT'S a wrong word!) toward the end of the series.

I do feel for the moderator at times - as brilliant as it is, they get hopelessly off topic!

[Iconoclastithon]

Ritual and aesthetics are ingrained in us by nature, sure. Some{many} people have mistaken that as an excuse for religious faith. Religion is not ingrained.

[Judel100]

Agreed. But at no point do they unpack the very broad concept that is "religion"? Does animism feed off the same human impulses as Judaism? Is Hinduism as incompatible with modern science as Christianity? You are not likely to find answers to these questions as both speakers assume that all religions are one and the same.

[DuctTapeMyFace]

The discussion is mainly about blasphemy, and unpacking that, as billed.

[PPartisan]

Lmao @ Lazarus not even commenting on his resurrection. It's great hearing educated people talk and so clearly show the inadequacies of religion.