Comparison of Tesla Bifilar and Pancake Coils

[NichtDieseTone]

Well, since the bifilar coil has a considerable self-capacitance, the voltage going out of it will naturally be lower. The transmitter is only sending out very short pulses at high frequency, so even a small amount of capacitance will kill of the high frequency AC.

And of course, you now effectively have more capacitance in the primary circuit that is also more ideally positioned, lowering the frequency and possibly the loss.

[lvildos]

have you compared the following?

-two standard pancake coils vs.

-two Tesla coils as xmt and rcve

[7sArts]

I love your timer.. runs smooth and quiet.. but you would get better accuracy and control of the spark with a 555 timer working on a triode tube. Pulse the coil with an inductor loop, not through the coil itself to achieve the resonance that Tesla was aiming for. Once you get one coil resonating, it will get other coils to resonate, they merely have to be wound in such a way to be at the same resonant frequency or a harmonic thereof. This might help you understand

watch?v=AgF20K7qvx0

[NoReasonPM]

wind another bifilar coil...BUT in the opposite direction of the other bifilar coil. Replace the simple coil with it.

[okayillgonow]

@TinselKoala: Apply the tesla bifilar (patent 512,340) to a tesla coil (or resonant transformer) itself; I bet it would be more powerful.

[Ziplock9000]

What are those plastics that you use for the 'frames' and how do you machine them? Thanks.

[Ziplock9000]

What are those plastics that you use for the 'frames' and how do you machine them? Thanks.

[deepcut71]

Thanks for this. It seems anomalous but i don't know much. My first thought was a difference in inductive properties but you coverered that in the video just after i thought it. Why do you think once coil transmits so much more powerfully ?

[okayillgonow]

You should also experiment with a caduceus coil

[MrAnguswangus]

I also wanted to mention that I have read experiments where the scalar wave receiver receives a high percentage more energy than is emitted from the transmitter. Thanks for the vid...it showed me a lot.

[MrAnguswangus]

I think that, as the Tesla coil runs, it emits scalar (longitudinal) waves. These waves travel without losses...I think. Great video. How about using an ignition coil for the HV?

[kubikop]

Nice Demonstration 5*

[msf60khz]

The bifilar winding may have more interwinding self capacitance. So it stores more energy from the spark. The resulting wave train contains more energy.

[Phi1point62]

TinselKoala, did you try connecting the two inner coil connections together to see what would happen if the electricity in one winding was flowing in opposition to the other?

[redding2k]

Excellent video.

Great transmission demonstration. I personally am interested in receiver applications, but this is very informative on the transmission application of the patent.

[rainmanferguson]

Nice work! My hat is off to you keep it up?

[MrfixitRick]

Thanks for the most excellent demo of flat spiral vs Tesla bifilar...it was just what I was looking for!

[rainmanferguson]

if you want to know more about what he needed a coil with less resistance for let me know and ill tell you. ive used up to much space on your video sorry guys if my comment got in the way

[rainmanferguson]

in a bifilar coil the first half of the magnetic field created magnetic resistance but as the pulse passes the first winding in the coil the magnetic field that created the added resistance is now collapseing and actually serves to push the voltage through the second half of the coil. so a coil wound this way almost cancles its magnetic field resistance that is created by the power going through it. add capacitance like RLC circuit and add two wraps of heavy wire around bifilar coil take reading

[PeaceEternal]

you are thinking of a counter wound bifilar coil... which I doubt was used in the video

[rainmanferguson]

The difference in the coils if you have not read why tesla said to do them that way is the resistance in the coil- heres how it works in laymens terms as the wave form or electric pulse travels through a reg coil it adds resistance to what it normally has because the as it travels the length of the coil it is creating a magnetic field that resists the current/voltage flow. next post will tell you what i know on how to use them effectively.

[kunadude]

For clarification: A bifilar coil with 50windings in ea coil connected in aiding will have a much higher volt potential than a single coil with 100turns. Same #turns for both coils but very different results. Tesla was all about High Voltages for electrostatics

[kunadude]

Tesla did experiment with opposing fields such as bucking coils and even opposed bifilar. But what he's known for was his aiding bifilar design. Volt potential is greatly increased this way compared to equal #turn single coil

[kunadude]

Tesla Bifilar coils are connected in aiding fashion, not opposing configuration. PPL keep confusing and associating opposing configs with Tesla

[TinselKoala]

If you are referring to my Tesla bifilar in this video, you will note that it is wired exactly like he shows in the drawing for his patent # 512340.

It's funny, but it looks to me, from your comments below, that you might be suffering from the same malady as "PPL".

[curator23]

this is very interesting, thank you

FYI when you say the coils are within a few 10uH of each other, this does not indicate that they are closely matched - one could be 10uH and the other 100uH - a factor of 10 out.

divide the largest by the smallest to give the relative scale of the values.

[TinselKoala]

Perhaps we are interpreting the lingo differently. Your example is ten tens of microhenries. In normal English, a "few" is normally 2 or 3, rarely more. So I meant to say that their values are within 20 or 30 microhenries of each other. Not closely matched by today's standards, but close nevertheless.

[prototype9000]

i found on several styles of tesla bifilar tesla coils that i have made cylcindrical spiral and conical coil that i had made well they dont work not well at all for receiving from a primary and even worse when the primary is bifilar the cylindrical bifilar tesla primary though makes a little rf but has no output strangely enough i haven ttried it on a normal tesla coil yet mabe that should be next according to tom bearden and others a bifilar secondary transmits transversely

[prototype9000]

do you get allot of residual capacitance in your spiral coil on mine i get some after everything is disconnected only difference being in mine is more turns smaller gauge or wire and the turns are spaced i also found spiral coils make good capacitor if you stack them on top of each other with spacers in between the coils each coil has its ends together one coil goes to negative the other to positive

[TinselKoala]

Yes, you are right, if I drag a conductor across the coil just after energizing it, I can often draw tiny sparks even thru the thick insulation. I think this is from the increased capacitance.

I'll try the stacking idea when I have a chance. Thanks!

[youtuubbguy66]

Is the bifilar above or under at the end?

[TinselKoala]

Bifilar on the bottom, transmitting.

Standard pancake on the top, with spark gap, receiving.

[shukmani100]

This is a very intriguing demonstration ... my hats off to you. From my understanding of coils and in particular Teslas bifilar pancake coil ... the idea is to add internal capacitance to the coil. In motor design an external coil is often added to power correct the circuit. I wonder is this the same idea here. Does represent a combination of inductance and capacitance in one unit.

[crippled82]

where to learn more about these coils?

[TinselKoala]

Tesla's patent 512340

my yt channel

over unity forum website

[shukmani100]

continued: I believe the internal capacitance effect is enhanced via the use of high voltages. If you think about how voltages and currents behave in I and C circuits and put both into one unit. hmmmmmm this may be a demonstration of Teslas radiant energy claims. Is this tapping into the scalar componets that were removed from Maxwells equations by Lorenz's regaging of them. If so this could be overunity. I would suggest measuring input to output power to see if the coe is > 1.

[TinselKoala]

Yes, I would have to agree with you as far as speculation goes. In this setup there isn't any danger of going OU, I promise!! The energy has to come from somewhere. I think a system constructed along Tesla's main research lines might be able to entrain energy somehow from the enormous storehouse of the Schumann cavity, which ultimately gets its energy from the sun. Somehow. And it will probably involve really big apparatus.

[hydro4f3a]

Nice work. Can you say how much the voltage step up is ?

[TinselKoala]

Not yet. I'm pretty cautious about hooking expensive test equipment up to these circuits. (Even so, I blew out my benchtop DMM testing this unit...but it was a cheapie so no great loss. It was a 1200+ VAC surge.)

As soon as I have time to make a safe voltage divider/safety gap I'll try to do some measurements.

[TinselKoala]

I have just constructed and tested another identical Tesla bifilar. I didn't have enough wire to make a second flat pancake, so I haven't tested the "short stack": two pancakes. But the two Tesla bifilars (TBC), when stacked together in the configuration shown in the video, produced an intermediate spark--it only occasionally fired the 0.150" gap and was weak looking with the 0.075" gap.

This was with aligned polarities; as you might expect with opposing polarities there was no spark at all.

[AdminOnDuty]

It would have been interesting to reverse the polarity to see if the spiral direction plays a part in this. The bifilar offers more 'skin' for the HFHV to ride on. Wouldn't you love to see a HSV of the magnetic field in 3D :D

[Thorsupremecommander]

I'm surprised. First of all, bifilar coil should not generate any electromagnetic field, because there are two fields completly opposing to each other. But we clearly see that this does not happen. Some say that bifilar coil is a longitudinal wave transmitter. Bililar coil shoud not pick up any external magnetic field either. It could change resistance if it were made of bismuth but not produce voltage. Putting it simple this great experiment shows unknown phenomena.

[Thorsupremecommander]

I have proposal. make another experiment same like this, but instead of bifilar coil use two ordinal coils. Then we'll see what sort of coil is best transmitter and what is best receiver. Without this second experiment we can't draw clear conclusions

[TinselKoala]

You are of course correct. I will make another pair, one of each type. It may take a few days before I can get "a round tuit."

[TinselKoala]

This is a bifilar flat coil of the type designed and patented by Tesla in #512340. This coil is different from the "Stubblefield" (or Bedini) type that has non-inductive, opposing current paths. The Tesla bifilar has parallel, same direction conducting paths, hence the magnetic field isn't quenched as in the Stubblefield bifilar. However, the interturn capacitance is greatly increased in the Tesla bifilar, with respect to the standard spiral pancake coil.

I am surprised too.

[Thorsupremecommander]

I've read that Tesla coil is bifilar opposing current paths. In that case it would be nice to conduct yet another experiment with opposing current path bifilar coils :)

[TinselKoala]

Check the patent, #512340. You will see Tesla's drawing of the coil. The only place the current paths are opposing is in the feed wires. In the coil itself the current in adjacent wires is parallel. So all the current flows either clockwise, or CCW, depending on the direction of the spiral windings.

Nevertheless, I agree that opposing current path coils will be interesting to test.

Please see my next comment.

[mutwa]

Are you the inventor of the alsetalokin oc motor?

[TinselKoala]

No.

But I think there is much to be learned from careful study of the story of OC and his magnet motor.