is anyone goin to be in heaven? Even after becoming Christian, u still have the same thoughts. Moses himself must have had a few lustful thoughts after coming to God, it is only natural. In fact part of Gods programming to keep th especies reproducing. Committing adultery is obviously sinful, but lusting after a beautiful woman? come on...do u really think that would keep u outta heaven?
Part of faith imo is common sense that God programmed u with.
@IANC4EVER dont allow your mnd to lie to you. you can always change your thoughts. the mind is powerful. if you limit it and you don't limit it has corresponding result. you can train it. that's where repentance comes in too. you repent now, your mind will begin to work in a wonderful way. so dont limit yourself
@darrensteveben: this is beyond manipulation, all the responses came from Juan. he was sincere in His answers.he spoke the truth. you can never argue with the truth, it's standard. The love of God is real, He waits for to embrace it....
Yup they all came from Juan.. Sincere as sincere is. He's ashamed of himself... Just as many people are for digression. No one escapes without screwing up. I guess the real question is whether you need someone to forgive you or do you forgive yourself. I don't believe in vicarious redemption. I believe in complete accountability. Religion= lack of personal accountability. That's the core of it's flaw (in my opinion). Toxic shame is where it gets it's power. So sad.
@darrensteveben so what you are saying then is that we dont need to forgive one another? if we dont forgive one another then we must demand justice in some form of punishment, if you are convicted of a crime and stand before a judge and say to the judge its ok you dont need to punish me i have forgiven myself do you see what you are saying? any honest judge will carry out the punishment you deserve, you have to get passedyour predudices and listen carefully to what is being said
bahhhhh loaded questions, everyone lies, not everyone steals, everyone has lustful thoughts, and we are raised where it is common to say gods name in vein, but that dosent mean god is real, or Juan is a bad person.
@SadFaceDystopia obviously God is not going to show himself to us. we are meer humans. He is almight God creator of the heavens and universe. if He were to just show himself to us we would all die and all unbelievers in him would die and sit before th ejudgment seat and be condemed to hell. God doesnt want you to go to hell. he paid the price so we dont have to. we have all sined and we all have come short of the glory of God. what are you going to do about it?
God may exist, but he would not ! tell people different words for them to follow all over the world dividing them forever. Every religious person has no chance to get anything from God because, that person only trusts what other people are saying. It is sad to watch this young man unique view of life he stated at the beginning being destroyed in only 9 min.
@mikerozo God is THE way THE truth and THE life. he is the only wya. all other beliefs are not true and not right. the Bbile is true. God is real. put your trust and faith in Jesus Cghrist and repent and turn from your sins just like I did not long ago! and you will be saved from eternal punishment! God made hell for satain and his followers. not for us! Its our choice weather we go to heaven or hell! make the right choice!
This is actually the way we were brow-beaten into accepting catechism when we were 6 or 7 years of age in school in Ireland...I find it a bit bizzare that the Way of the Master folks deploy this type of tactic with adults (even more odd that it appears to be half-way effective...)
Do you see lots of manipulation in this? Some Christians believe that using manipulation is like using witchcraft (like Neil T. Anderson writes in Bondage breaker). Just something to think about. Be honest with God and with yourself and with other's. All the best to you.
@behumble4God Are you saying that Tony Miano is manipulating the guy? I don't want to assume you are, so I'll await your answer before commenting further.
@TheTruthCanHurt yes and not just him, but all who use this and similar ways to sell their stuff, beliefs, ...
my guess is that his intentions here are very well meant, and he is not aware of what he is using in his suggestive questions. In a way if your "smart" and if you have little logic ... this that i sell, offer is the best you can do.
What if hell isn't a bad place? Why should we fear hell, maybe God is a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to feast upon our "souls", if there is a cold war between God and Lucifer, than both would act like capitalist, sell sell sell! Satan only doesn't get much air time because most of gods followers are like transformers, psychotics in disguise. Owning all airtime and publishing right of propaganda and dogma. of course this argument is like saying you prefer Kirk over Picard.
Once he says he is a liar, What is the point? You cant believe anything he says. Or You must choose to believe that this is his first ever lie, in order to believe anything beyond this, which you no longer can do now that he has just lied.
Or you cant believe him no matter what, other than what you choose. Is it really a good person that would take on your burden? Or would a good person encourage you, knowing you must carry your own load. As they must carry theirs.
Seriously what does Tony gain by going out in the open preaching the good news of eternal life? He is risking his charecter and he goes out there knowing the world will hate him and mock him! We as christians really care and love people and will risk our lives just to get one person to come to Christ. We risk everything just to help one person. How is that selfishness? The truth will set you free! You dont have to live in your sin and Jesus payed for the punishment of sin. THATS GOOD NEWS!
Q: have u ever told truth. A: Yes Q:how do u call someone who tells truth? A An honest person Q: have u ever given anything to anyone for free, as a gift. A: yes i have Q: how do u call someone who gives stuff for free A: A generous person Q: Have u ever felt lust after a sexy woman? A: yes i have Q: how do u call someone who lusts after hot chicks A: a normal healthy human being so by your own admission you are an honest,generous normal person. do u deserve punishment for that? NO
@JohnF30Music Because we have free will, and a choice to repent of our sin and trust Jesus. Just because he died for us doesn't mean we have a free ticket to heaven. Then God would be a corrupt Judge and he can't do that, he is perfect.
@percyth11 You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has proved it wrong yet, because we can't we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant.
Evolution and the big bang is far more ridiculous than the bible.
@SWrebs Do you realise that no religion ever on earth has been proved wrong (especially when they make un- testable claims and move the goalposts)? By your logic you should believe in every single one just in case it turns out correct and punishes you for believing in the wrong god. There are also many other things that have never been proved into to exist such as fairies, Santa, pixies and a teapot orbiting Saturn... Do you believe these to? Because they have never been proved wrong...
@Dnile111 You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has prooved it wrong yet, because we can't cause we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant.
Truth is objective, Goodness is subjective...what is good? Only the absence of evil...or is it greater than or less than that? Is a cold blood killer who kills painlessly more "good" than one who makes his victims suffer? So according to your logic the "nice" killer is good...is that correct?
It is so wonderful to see this young man's heart be softened as he listened to the Gospel! I am willing to bet that he has repented from his sins, and that satan lost one of his children to our Almighty Lord!
God Bless the men who so boldly share the Truth with others!
heh, imagine that, a god who loves you so much he'll punish you for infinity for a finite 'crime', THOUGHT crime, no less
now, put the court scenario with 'some man' offering to go to jail for life for you and watch a judge say 'i don't think so'... for the simple reason of its injustice
Praise the FSM! This dishonest and manipulative bastard uses illogic to trick false admissions out of people. First of all, of course, where the proof for any of those concepts ;) Secondly, the idea that someone who does something once is defined by that action, makes every person alive completely good, too. If there's none good but God, that makes each one of us God. I trust this is enough to show the problems with this crap.
Congratulations! You are good at manipulating emotionally troubled teenagers through push-polling and philosophical semantics. Does this give you a special house in heaven?
Now, what's got me wondering is whether or not the guy with the mic knows how manipulative he's being. He's using a basic appeal to guilt approach combined with putting the guy on the spot, the person isn't that bright and already has implicit biblical views. yet another reason why the use and abuse of logic should be taught alongside maths, english and science from very early age. I bought the "fallacy detective" for my little sister ( 8 ) who goes to a church of England school.
So...according to this guy, if you tell your wife of 40 years that she is as young and beautiful as the day you met, you're a liar and going to hell. REAL compassionate!
And honestly, if someone put up a million dollars because they sold everything for me, I would decline them and serve my sentence. Why should HE suffer for MY actions. That's insane! Why would you think people would be ok with that?
@Ripley747 The purpose of the interview is to get people to realize they sin and that because we sin we deserve to go to hell. However, Jesus, the Son of God, died on the cross to pay the price for all our sin. Romans 10:9 - For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
@Noahedwinbeach2 No, the interview is to make people feel bad about about doing very human things to the point where they ask, "What do I do to fix this?" It's a psychological tactic. Of course he has the answer - Convert and confess and all will be forgiven. If I committed a crime, I would whole-heartedly refuse to allow them to pay my sentence. It was my fault. What kind of person would that make me if I allowed someone to do that? I should be accountable for my own actions, no one else.
@Ripley747 The bible says the fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom, so yes we should be terrified of what God will do to us if we don't repent and trust the savior.
@SWrebs Man is selfish by nature and most will not take the time to read and study the bible. It makes perfect sense of why we are here and life in general. But most will not take the time to study and read it. because they have (what they think is) more important things to do. Gambling your eternal soul is NOT wise, Eternity is a loooooooooooooooooong time to be wrong
@SWrebs How does it make sense that a perfect, self-contained, self-sufficient God needs to create humans? Much less at the risk of causing eternal suffering?
Can you prove this "soul" exists? Can you even define it?
@SWrebs I never said "terrified" or "fear." I said the interview is to make them feel bad. Guilt is a more accurate description, not fear. And modern post bronze age psychology says the Bible is wrong. Fear is NOT the beginning of wisdom. It will decreases wisdom and intellect. People often make wrong choices and it's been shown your rational thinking decreases when you experience fear. Oddly enough the very opposite is true.
@Ripley747 So if I were a doctor and you were in my office and I knew your test results showed you had cancer and I gave you the medicine for the cure and said take this and I didn't tell you about the cancer would you take it? Of course not, you are going to want to know why before you take something or your not gonna think you need it. That is all this video is about. showing us we need Gods cure for our sin. But they have to know why first. Most people don't.
@SWrebs And if the doctor said, "People like you who smoke their whole lives are evil, rotten, despicable people who deserve torture for putting their family and their life in dancer. They should suffer extreme torture as commanded by my medical schooling. You should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you. But that's ok. I happen to have a cure that will make you a good person again without cancer and temporarily a non-smoker," I would probably seek a second opinion. That's just me though.
what an unethical prick. This guy is far worse then the kid he's talking to. I am SO glad I don't follow that fairy tale book. Doesn't mean I don't have a moral code but I live well on my own merits, not a made up thought process based in fear arrogance and manipulation. He's a great cult recruiter. piss poor analogies with eth parachute.
@eahazell You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has proved it wrong yet, cause we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant. But it's your soul, you can gamble it if you want to.
And if those are exceptions then why don't you all stop telling people about it, then we wouldn't have known about it in the first place, hence we get a free ticket to heaven. Don't you want us all to go to heaven?. Your religion system is so flawed that I cannot begin to understand how it got to be believed in the first place.
So if a baby die before having enough notion to understand what your religion is about, then he/she will go to hell for eternity. Aren't we all born as sinners. What about someone who was born in a different culture, where there's no link to your religion, then he too goes to hell without any chance of doing anything about it?
@PlutoedParadigm Where did you read that? The bible clearly says that he will take care of all children. but only he knows the age at witch we are to be judged.
the amazing marketing methods of christians. terrorize and make believe that we (all) deserve to die as a punishment, then say someone else died for us, then ask people to join the religion or they will die.
@JohnF30Music Yeah, but what if they are saying is true? Nobody can prove otherwise and if you understand the bible and study it, it does make perfect sense.
This is manipulation of a persons fear. Hell is always brought into the equation to drum up concern. I've also heard this line before. "I'm a christian and I believe in god. If I'm right, I'll avoid going to hell. If I'm wrong, and there is no god, I have lost nothing." They don't see how much they are losing every day with this mind-set. Basically there whole lives.
@jab0805 They seem to be misqouting Blaise Pascal a french mathmetichian and philosopher. The original argument can be found in the Pensees a collection of his unfinished apologetic work he was very sick and died too young. I do have a question though what precisely does their mind-set cause them to lose?
@anmfrk1 I was specifically talking about the "I have nothing to lose if I believe in god" mind set. Saying that If a person believes in god, when there clearly is no god, then that person still feels justified in his belief. Their reasoning being that if god turns out to be a hoax, they haven't really lost anything. It's a way of justifying their belief. If there is a god then they have done right, and will be rewarded with eternity. What they don't realize is that they have wasted their life.
@jab0805 I see your point clearer now but what I suppose I really want to know is what part of life do they waste? What does their belief deprive them of (providing that they are mistaken ofcourse) that they could have experienced otherwise?
@anmfrk1 They waste their lives making decisions based largely on the belief that if they choose incorrectly or against gods will, then they will be punished with fire and eternal torture. So most of the decisions they make, although right, are based on fear. Where as a non believer makes a moral decision based on what he/she truly feels is the right thing to do. Not "I'd better do right or I'll fry" mentality.They are deprived of freedom. Their mind is held captive by fear.
@jab0805 Do you believe that this is the mindset of all christians or just a certian demographic lets call them the False Pascalians? If other christians do not base their decisions on fear then their are lives still wasted in a like manner?
@anmfrk1 No, I don't believe it's the mindset of all christians. It does however seem to surface every time I admit that I'm an atheist. "But aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?" There you go... They don't get it. I am not afraid of hell just like I'm not afraid of santa claus. I believe that all religion is a waste of time. It should not hold sway with any law making. I am all for freedom. Religion however is dangerous in so many ways.
@jab0805 Who's afraid of santa claus he gives you presents? :) So in what way do non fear centered christians waste their lives? To be fair I think it would be more honest to say all ideas are dangerous in numerous ways religious or otherwise.
@anmfrk1 It's like I spend my whole life praying to a grapefruit getting exactly the same results as a christian would praying to their god. Do you ,as a christian, think I've wasted my life praying to this grapefruit? I believe you would and anyone else for that matter. The guy in this video's argument is that anyone that has lied, stole, or cheated is a liar, thief, and cheater. So using this guys argument I can say with certainty that if I've ever done a good thing then I'm GOD.
@jab0805 Well I am not well learned in the virtues of grapefruit and I would certainly point out to you that I believe you are mistaken in putting your faith into one, but until I hear your reasoning I would have no way to move from doubt to certainty about your um...habit. If there is no god however and death is truly the end would you be able to say that someone who felt the full range of humanity truly wasted their life based on one false beleif that may have brought them joy?
@anmfrk1 Bringing one joy is fantastic! But to do so at the expense of everyone else is wrong. Blue laws and the right for a woman to have an abortion are still issues today. Science has given us so much and answered so many questions yet the powers that be will stifle them at all cost to maintain their belief. My point about the argument is if you say I'm a liar because I have lied, then you can say that I am a god because I have done as god has done when I do good. It's a crazy notion.
@jab0805 What if this person does not infringe on others is his life wasted in any way then? Where are these rights derived? Why does science have to be the enemy of christianity? Who are the powers to be? and if God is perfect then you would have to be perfect to be God not just do some good. I am sorry for all the questions this time, there were just so many different issues raised it can be hard to keep pace.
@anmfrk1 I will not pretend to have all the answers. That's the great thing about being objective. Sometimes we don't have the answer, but this doesn't mean we wont find it someday. I live in the southeast, I drive 17 miles to work. I pass 15 churches. The religious influence in our daily life is undeniable.That's the powers that be. It's scary how this cult life of theirs has sewn itself so deeply into our way of life. I for one say NO! Science by way of definition is opposed to religion.
@anmfrk1 science doesn't assume something is true just because a book says so. Men wrote that book by the way. The bible teaches it's followers to recruit souls. That infringes on everyone, especially when they use fear tactics to indoctrinate children. They don't have a fighting chance.
@jab0805 What is the definition that creates this conflict? I agree with you but the book still makes assertions and these assertions are the basis by which we can judge the the truth or falisty of the text. I have to ask a question about your last point doesnt holding anything to be true create a friction between other beliefs? I mean you yourself are not content to let christianity have the run of place is it not right to let all men test themselves in honest debate religious or secular?
@jab0805 Or maybe you just can't deal with the fact you sin and what happens after death? The fact is we all will die. That is a fact. Since NONE of us know where we will go after we die it produces fear and many do not want to think about it. However, God already says what happens when we die. If you believe in his son and accept him as your savior you will go to heaven. If you don't then you go to hell. God showing mercy provides a way out of our sin. It is through Jesus.
@Noahedwinbeach2 That is such non-sense. To put unjustified fear into a person. Just because a book that "men" wrote says so. You nor any person alive can produce not even one shred of evidence of a gods existence. Yet you insist on preying on the weak, scared, and desperate. You want non-believers to produce evidence that this god doesn't exist which is totally backwards. Like me asking you to prove that a giant spaghetti monster doesn't exist. It's the cult mindset. Use fear!
@jab0805 Proof is all around you God exist. For the same reason it takes intelligent life to build airplanes, cars, computers, homes, etc it took intelligent life to create everything in the universe. That intelligent being is God who created us in his image. However, we being of free will chose sin over God. Therefore God was born of the flesh(Jesus) and died on the cross, and resurrected on the third day to be the final last sacrifice for our sins. All that is required is you believe.
@Noahedwinbeach2 To follow religion is to give up control of your life to an imaginary being in the sky. To not take responsibility, but just put it in gods hands. Let him deal with it. I don't relinquish control of my life to something I don't believe in. I see nature all around me. I'm not arrogant enough to believe it all had to be created by a being like me. It is what it is.
@Noahedwinbeach2 There are many that are wrong. Just as there are many that are right. I side with logic and reason. Truth isn't subjective. Have a good day as well.
@AwsomeAthiest Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Rev 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
@AwsomeAthiest Being human and sinful we can never understand or fathom God's omnipotence or eternal existance. Since we are created we don't understand how God could never have been created. I would ask you how it is the universe was created and all the matter within it, or do you believe it has always been here? The fact is it takes more faith that everything you see around you happened to come by chance than by a creator. The complexity of the human body is enough to prove there is a God.
@Noahedwinbeach2 NO, not being able to answer how the universe exsisted, is the exact same thing as asking how your god just exsisted, the only difference is that we know the universe exsists, we do not know that a god, or gods, exsists.
You are claiming 2 things, 1) a god exsists 2) He can create things by magic, i not claiming anything, im saying i dont know!
Please dont bring up evolution before you have answered this primary question.
@AwsomeAthiest End of discussion. There is no point in talking to an athiest. You are all the same and you are stern in your beliefs as I am. I guess we will find out what happens to us when we die.
@Noahedwinbeach2 Yes it usually goes this way when christians cant answer the simplist of questions, and then realise that dont have any reason whatsoever to believe in a god, anymore than muslims or jews.
Please understand i never meant to be confrotational, i was simply asking a straightforward question.
Just remember the truth is the truth, weather or not you choose to accept it, if im right, and god really doesnt exsist, then there shall be no vengance, else it can only empower your faith!
Ps Just to clarify, please dont claim you have evidence for god if you dont, i dont mind people having there own beliefs, but if you make a claim, saying you have evidence, and then fail to provide such evidence, you are only trying to force someone to believe in your belief, which is how over 1 million jews got murdered, and is also against the human rights act.
@AwsomeAthiest Either way I still love you brother/sister, and I have a desire to see all people come to Christ who loves you very much! Take care of yourself and be safe. Death is around the corner friend.
I feel the same about getting people to see that there really is no god.
But i must express, the best way to get someone to see the truth, which is after all, the only thing that is important, is not to run away from questions, but to show your point of view is the correct one.
I know you think atheists "just dont get it", but it really was an honest and simple question, when i asked, "were did god come from ?"
@AwsomeAthiest The one mistake Athiest make is assuming there was a creator for God. If there was a creator for God then God wouldn't be God. Therefore the one that created God would be the true God and on and on we could go down that path. So I ask you this..do you sin? What is sin based off? Who sets the standard for right and wrong? If you don't believe in God and his laws doesn't that mean morals and laws are really subjective?
Saying a god cant be created or it wouldnt be a god, doesnt prove such a god exsists, it the same ask asking me how the universe began, i dont know, but you dont know how either, your just making a claim you cannot support with evidence, wereas im only claiming what i know to be a fact, ie, the universe does exsist.
Lets go by the christian perspective, that dna is instructions made by god to create the human being, if those instuctions make a person a bad person, it is more likely those people will die, than good people who only fight or do harm to defend themselves, the good people will increase over time because there children will inherit there genes, which is why we look similar to our perants, that is Evolution!
@AwsomeAthiest That is microevolution which I believe in. Macroevolution hasn't been proven. Therefore that is the flaw. Also, your not really saying much by saying you know the universe exist. That is common sense. If I saw a car in the driveway I don't have wonder if there was a creator for that car. I know there was a creator. There is no possible way that car could have evolved over time from something else without a creator. The same concept applies to our universe.
It is simply not possible to believe in micro evolution, because there is no such thing, evolution on small scale, is evolution on big scale, given enough time.
The only difference is that the human mind is only comfortable with small changes, and cannot visulise large changes, its easy for you to claim god, because you dont expect to have to explain how god created the universe, you just sit there and say god can do anything.
@AwsomeAthiest Then you my friend just admitted you have faith in something you can't see. I can't see God but I have faith in his existance. You can't see evolution in progress on a large scale yet you have faith in its' existance. Therefore we are both equal now aren't we? I can't see evolution in progress on a large scale. I believe in below the species level evolution. I do not beleive in species level evolution. I have never seen it either.
Yes but the difference is, that i have fossils and genetic evidence to show evolution happened, and you can see evolution in progress, to say i dont believe we can change from a fish to a human, is like saying i can walk to the kitchen but to walk to the shop would be impossible, to only difference is time.
Your first post said you have evidence, now you admit that you believe in something you cant see, you so called evidence only works in the church.
@AwsomeAthiest - there is nothing awesome about being Athiest. You're intellectually empty and you have NO logic or reason behind what you say. There is not ONE shred of evidence to "prove" anything like evolution insofar as one type of creature turing into another type of creature. Time has nothing to do with it .. if it can happen it will, and it won't take "millions" of years. We've been here around 6000 years an have seen NO evidence of evolution. You have lots of blind faith!
@AwsomeAthiest We can see God's creation. God doens't want us to see him yet, we are currently separated by sin. And who's to say that wasn't God creating what man digs up as a blueprint to the first man? If evolution were true and we sprang from the ocean, then there would be no more fish as they would all evolve into man. not to mention we could cross breed dogs and cats and have Dats or Cogs. LOL!
@SWrebs It's quite obvious that you have no understanding of how evolution actually works. Evolution works by natural selection. Populations become isolated and unable to interbreed. Environments change. Organisms reproduce with variation, and some offspring have traits that better enable them to survive than other species of the group.
@SWrebs " If evolution were true and we sprang from the ocean, then there would be no more fish as they would all evolve into man"
Evolution doesnt say that, if it did, evolution would be proven false, stop misrepresenting the position of evolution when you dont even understand what its position is, you have been lied to by other brainwashed idiots like yourself, you are a disgrace to the human species.
@SWrebs Are you serious? Your argument is as absurd as saying if English came from the Germanic languages, then why do people still speak German? Wouldn't they have started speaking English? And as for your dogs and cats argument, the counter to that would be if creation were true, people should be giving birth to skunks all the time, without the need for a partner. Funny how this doesn't happen.
@AwsomeAthiest - can you answer this? If a human body only fully functions with all of it's inner workings working together, simultaneously, like the heart/lungs/brain all working together in perfect order without our controlling it, then which "evolved" first? And how did our heart pump the blood to all of our parts if we "evolved" a brain or lungs at a different time? Can you answer these questions? Nope, you cannot because ALL of our parts must work together to keep us alive ....
"And how did our heart pump the blood to all of our parts if we "evolved" a brain or lungs at a different time? Can you answer these questions? Nope"
Asking a question and then answering that question yourself, clearly shows you have not means or will to stick around and have the questions answered.
If you are going to debate against evolution its a good idea to know what evolution is, this comment shows clearly you lack any understanding of the theory itself.
I plead with you to type "human evolution" into the search bar and watch a video by ceesee7.
We have the fossils to prove we evolved, we have the gentics and the understanding of the entire proccess, the only people who disagree are the christians, and they provide no reason other than it being crazy to imagine such a thing happened, BUT IT DID!
@AwsomeAthiest - we Christians are not crazy. I am highly intelligent and even as a non Christian I did not belive that evolution happened because it is impossible, preposterous, and cannot happen! There is NO fossil evidence! NONE! What 'they' claimed to be this or that 'Missing link" has been disproven to be something else ... you are the one with NO logic or reason sir, you have no common sense and have blind faith in the impossible .... Please read: God Doesn't Believe in Athiests"
@AwsomeAthiest - wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Genetic codes dictate our chemical makeup, our eye color, hair color, size, etc ... our genes don't make us "bad" or "good." NOONE is good (good meaning perfect) in spirit ... we ALL die because we ALL have sinned. WOW, that's the most bizarre and dumbest 'reasoning' I've heard in a long time. So if I work out I'm going to give birth to a baby who is born with large biceps? NO! See the silliness behind that reasoning?
First of all evolution is an undeniable fact, and stating that fossils do not exsist is like saying the sun does not rise in the morning.
But if evolution were indeed false, nobody could possibly accept your option, because your ideas are not an option, they are MAGIC.
How can you expect anyone to cast out proven, observable, recreatable, scientific theorys, in favor of the idea that a god created everything from nothing.
Evolutionism is easily falsifiable. It's presuppositions do not lead to right conclusions based on the evidence. That is why the science has become consensual not empirical. If you can prove evolutionism please enlighten us, the world would love to see it, make sure it is not falsifiable. The "magic" u speak of is in the random non directed incalculable pseudo science called evolutionism not in the belief in a creator God.
Evolution is a scientific theory just like the theorys that brought you your computer, and television, which is the reason it should be accepted, your idea about creation is not a valid point in any sense , its not like if evolution were false i could accept your idea, you idea is not an option, you cannot argue against science with the argument, "god done it", that isnt an argument, that isnt a theory, if evolution is false what is your counter claim ?
You are making a straw man argument by comparing evolutionism to silica based processors or batch data processing. The argument most evo's would make is the "we don't see gravity but we know it's real, it's the same for evolutionism". Wrong. we can test gravity, it is observable & demonstrable. Not so with evo; it is not testable, observable or demonstrable. I saw Johanson use the gravity argument 4 evo at a "lucy" seminar. Straw man argument, 2 set up 1 argument 2 prove another.
"Wrong. we can test gravity, it is observable & demonstrable"
So is evolution, if you had bothered to research you would know that sets of bacteria have been put into conditions were only one food source is avalible, both sets had the exact same conditions and all bacteria showed the exact same mutations.
Besides this fact, you have given no explanation as to how your god created life or the universe for that matter, god did it, is the REAL straw man argument!
That is my point, gravity is testable & demonstrable where as evolutionism is not. Thank you for so not being able to understand my point that you reinforce it for me, what a great person to debate, one does not need to even try.
"That is my point, gravity is testable & demonstrable where as evolutionism is not"
I find it baffling how when confronted with evidence that evolution has be demonstrated, you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend you have never heard a thing, you are convinced you are correct, and ignore anyone who doesnt agree with you, and that is why you will never see the truth!
This is a widely spread belief amongst nay-sayers, but it is not true.
One claim evolution makes is that complexity, and purpose can be built from the ground up. Evolutionary simulations repeatedly verify this.
One claim evolution makes is the tree of life, and that joined branches on this tree will share characteristics of the common ancestor. DNA-analysis/paleontology verify this.
Evolution predicts that environmental pressures can cause changes to species:
-This is evidenced by wild animal herds becoming physically smaller in size due to human predation. Throughout time nature has selected against the weak and feeble. But we humans hunt the prize examples of the pack. By doing so we are unwittingly selecting for smaller animals.
-Introducing invasive alien species into an ecosystem causes changes to native species in that system.
-During the industrial revolution in England, many of the country's trees normally covered in white moss, were covered in suit, Darkening them. White moths which once sought camouflage against this white background suddenly stood out and were selected against, because they were easily spotted by their bird predators. As a result, that species of moth's wing pigmentation changed from white to dark brown.
Its no use pal, they just stick there fingers in there ears go lalala, and then claim youve proven them correct.
When they realise that those who are telling them that we are the ones who have got it wrong might not be be telling the truth, and take five mins to consider the points that people like us present, then mabye they will understand.
I must agree, i also feel that a small number of those who i have debated have gone away and questioned there beliefs, its unlikely you will have someone admit they are wrong, but quite often you will have people leave debates when they are backed into a corner, since you cant disprove the truth :)
@L00NGB00W Haha thats great, oooo my turn my turn -_-.
"God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night"
I feel this quote pretty much certifys that it was scribbled by an old man sat in a cave somewere.
For the christians reading this, the lesser light is now known as the moon, if you have never heard of it, pop it into google and see what you come up with :)
That is not a contradiction. YHWH controls everything, even the good and evil. He allows evil and uses the hearts of men and angels to carry out His divine plan. In that case the LORD used Satan to carry out His plan. God's plan was to number Israel because of His anger and Satan had tempted Israel and played a part in that "kindling of anger". YHWH allowed it to bear it's fruit and then used it for HIS good and glory, not Satan's. Not a contradiction; just how God works.
@L00NGB00W The parallel account of the incident surrounding the census reveals it was Satan who incited David to take the census: “Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel” (1 Chronicles 21:1). However, the wording of 2 Samuel 24:1 says that it was God who “moved David” to take the census. This discrepancy can be explained by the understanding that sometimes God sovereignly permits Satan to act in order to achieve His purposes.
@mvitt86 Thanks for your comments. You did a fair amount of research there.
Yes it is fair to say that YHWH 'used' Satan in this instance. But as I just mentioned to apathy7170, Would a loving, just God employ evil at any time?
I look at the claim of perfection slightly differently than you do.
You say: God IS perfect, his actions ARE therefore perfect.
I say: IF God is perfect, THEN his actions and creations must be perfect. Are they perfect?
@L00NGB00W Your welcome and thank you for your time in taking my comments into consideration. For your first question I will admit it is hard to comprehend what Gods entire purpose is and I only understand what He has revealed in the Bible. I admit that I have many questions as yourself and sometimes I expect to know unexplained problems. As for your second question His actions are perfect, His creation was perfect until our sinful nature corrupted this world by constant disobedience.
1. Yes, it is oft said that the Earth was perfect until 'The Fall'. But consider that YHWH is supposedly All-knowing and perfect. He gave us free will, but forced us to remain ignorant. He knew exactly what we would do. 'The Fall' was part of his plan. To coin a phrase, He designed evil into us.
2. Another instance where god 'Used' Satan is in the book of Job. Job was the perfect worshiper. He was without fault. Yet YHWH handed Job's fate to Satan. In order to boast.
Thanks to this, Job lost his 10 children, 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 cows, and 500 she-asses. And was stricken with boils. Job cursed the day he was born. And in his grief, posed an interesting question:
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?"
3. Concerning David's sin. I always thought the reason for the sin was that YHWH told Abraham that his children would be as numerous as the stars. For David to count them was to doubt YHWH...
@L00NGB00W God uses Satan in various ways, among them the refining, disciplining and purification of disobedient believers (Luke 22:31-32; 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 2 Corinthians 12:7-10). Such is the case with David. God allowed Satan to tempt him and David sinned, revealing his pride and allowing God to deal with him for it.
@L00NGB00W As to why God was angry at David, in these times, a man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God. In Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted.
@L00NGB00W Then no plague will come on them when you number them.” It was up to God to command a census, and if David counted he should only do it at God's command, receiving a ransom to "atone" for the counting. This is why God was angry again with Israel and is also why David was “conscience-stricken” after he counted Israel. David knew it was wrong and begged God to take away the guilt of his sin (2 Samuel 24:10).
@L00NGB00W God gave David a choice of three punishments for his sin—seven years of famine, three months of fleeing before his enemies, or three days of plague. David chose the third and the Lord then punished Israel with a plague which killed 70,000 men from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south. As for why God punished the whole nation for the sin of the king, that is exactly the question David asked in v. 17.
@L00NGB00W Why, when he was the one who had sinned, did the people have to suffer? He even requested that God’s hand be against him and his family only, and that God would spare the people. But as with the account of Job, God chose not to give a reason for His actions. Perhaps it was because of Israel’s multiplied sins and rebellion against God throughout the centuries.
@L00NGB00W Perhaps it was because of Israel’s multiplied sins and rebellion against God throughout the centuries. Perhaps it was a lesson to the people (and to us as well) that the people suffer when their leaders go astray. The reality is that God didn’t justify His actions with a reason, nor does He have to.
@L00NGB00W The Psalmist tells us “As for God, His way is perfect” (Psalm 18:30). If God’s ways are “perfect,” then we can trust that whatever He does—and whatever He allows—is also perfect. This may not seem possible to us, but our minds are not God’s mind. It is true that we can’t expect to understand His mind perfectly, as He reminds us “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
@L00NGB00W For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9). Nevertheless, our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust Him and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not.
@L00NGB00W As we see in 2 Samuel 24:16 God was grieved because of the things that were happening to His people and called off the punishment. Even through His rebuke God still shows His love and mercy.
1. As I said there are many things I cannot comprehend but that doesn't give me a good reason to doubt Gods existence, or the Bible. It actually makes me eager to learn more rather than give up.
2. God never "used" Satan he allowed him instead. Like God allows bad things to happen on this earth.
3. Your right David failed and sinned against God many times as well as disobey in doubt.
4. Yes very interesting but it was a spirit who spoke to Eliphaz most probably God.
@L00NGB00W The life of Job is proof that man usually has no idea what God is doing behind the scenes in the life of each believer. All humans ask the question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" It is the age-old question, and one that is sometimes difficult to answer in human terms, but believers have an advantage because we know that God is always in control and, no matter what happens, there are no coincidences—nothing happens by chance.
@L00NGB00W Job was such a man; he knew that God was on the throne and in total control, though he had no way of knowing why so many terrible tragedies were occurring in his life. Job never lost his faith in God, even under the most heartbreaking circumstances that tested him to his core. It’s hard to imagine losing everything we own in one day—property, possessions, and even children.
@L00NGB00W Most men would sink into depression and even become suicidal after such a nightmare; however, although Job must have felt all those emotions, he never wavered in his understanding that God was still in control. Job’s three friends, on the other hand, instead of comforting him, gave him bad advice and even accused him of committing sins so grievous that God was punishing him by making his life miserable.
@L00NGB00W Job knew God well enough to know that He did not work that way; in fact, he had such an intimate, personal relationship with Him that he was able to make the statement, "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face” (Job 13:15), There is another lesson in the book of Job, and that is the bond between husband and wife. Satan declared war on Job, trying to prove that he was only faithful to God because God had blessed him.
This is childish.
roccobaroccoSC 6 days ago
why call it christianity....just call it manipulation.
dnlbraden 1 month ago
Cowardly manipulation techniques by Christians
sameer137 1 month ago
@EminamaDron no,christanity at its best...
dgelevators1 1 month ago in playlist More videos from thewayofthemaster
is anyone goin to be in heaven? Even after becoming Christian, u still have the same thoughts. Moses himself must have had a few lustful thoughts after coming to God, it is only natural. In fact part of Gods programming to keep th especies reproducing. Committing adultery is obviously sinful, but lusting after a beautiful woman? come on...do u really think that would keep u outta heaven?
Part of faith imo is common sense that God programmed u with.
IANC4EVER 3 months ago
@IANC4EVER dont allow your mnd to lie to you. you can always change your thoughts. the mind is powerful. if you limit it and you don't limit it has corresponding result. you can train it. that's where repentance comes in too. you repent now, your mind will begin to work in a wonderful way. so dont limit yourself
123abcdmj 2 months ago
@IANC4EVER well,after you accept christ for who he is and ask for repantence etc,you cant be removed from your reward,just impossible
dgelevators1 1 month ago in playlist More videos from thewayofthemaster
@IANC4EVER so what you are saying is that you cant change the way you think?
reeceagodwin 1 week ago
You monster.
stickyjam1 4 months ago
I pray Juan is still walking in the truth. I would love to meet him on the other side.
classysasafrassy 5 months ago
Praise Jesus! Can't wait to meet you Juan, my brother in Christ. What a beautiful story the gospel is. I never tire of hearing it. God bless you all.
cdklassen2 5 months ago 6
WOW, Talk about a manipulation of SHAME.
darrensteveben 6 months ago 5
@darrensteveben: this is beyond manipulation, all the responses came from Juan. he was sincere in His answers.he spoke the truth. you can never argue with the truth, it's standard. The love of God is real, He waits for to embrace it....
123abcdmj 2 months ago
@123abcdmj
Yup they all came from Juan.. Sincere as sincere is. He's ashamed of himself... Just as many people are for digression. No one escapes without screwing up. I guess the real question is whether you need someone to forgive you or do you forgive yourself. I don't believe in vicarious redemption. I believe in complete accountability. Religion= lack of personal accountability. That's the core of it's flaw (in my opinion). Toxic shame is where it gets it's power. So sad.
darrensteveben 2 months ago
@darrensteveben so what you are saying then is that we dont need to forgive one another? if we dont forgive one another then we must demand justice in some form of punishment, if you are convicted of a crime and stand before a judge and say to the judge its ok you dont need to punish me i have forgiven myself do you see what you are saying? any honest judge will carry out the punishment you deserve, you have to get passedyour predudices and listen carefully to what is being said
reeceagodwin 1 week ago
Scaremongering at its finest
InsanoGerbil 6 months ago 2
bahhhhh loaded questions, everyone lies, not everyone steals, everyone has lustful thoughts, and we are raised where it is common to say gods name in vein, but that dosent mean god is real, or Juan is a bad person.
SadFaceDystopia 7 months ago 3
@SadFaceDystopia obviously God is not going to show himself to us. we are meer humans. He is almight God creator of the heavens and universe. if He were to just show himself to us we would all die and all unbelievers in him would die and sit before th ejudgment seat and be condemed to hell. God doesnt want you to go to hell. he paid the price so we dont have to. we have all sined and we all have come short of the glory of God. what are you going to do about it?
Christian4life95 7 months ago
@Christian4life95 thank you for explaning
dgelevators1 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SadFaceDystopia : if God is not real then what is real????
123abcdmj 2 months ago
God may exist, but he would not ! tell people different words for them to follow all over the world dividing them forever. Every religious person has no chance to get anything from God because, that person only trusts what other people are saying. It is sad to watch this young man unique view of life he stated at the beginning being destroyed in only 9 min.
mikerozo 7 months ago
@mikerozo God is THE way THE truth and THE life. he is the only wya. all other beliefs are not true and not right. the Bbile is true. God is real. put your trust and faith in Jesus Cghrist and repent and turn from your sins just like I did not long ago! and you will be saved from eternal punishment! God made hell for satain and his followers. not for us! Its our choice weather we go to heaven or hell! make the right choice!
Christian4life95 7 months ago
This is actually the way we were brow-beaten into accepting catechism when we were 6 or 7 years of age in school in Ireland...I find it a bit bizzare that the Way of the Master folks deploy this type of tactic with adults (even more odd that it appears to be half-way effective...)
arklowrockz 8 months ago
Do you see lots of manipulation in this? Some Christians believe that using manipulation is like using witchcraft (like Neil T. Anderson writes in Bondage breaker). Just something to think about. Be honest with God and with yourself and with other's. All the best to you.
behumble4God 9 months ago
@behumble4God Are you saying that Tony Miano is manipulating the guy? I don't want to assume you are, so I'll await your answer before commenting further.
TheTruthCanHurt 7 months ago
@TheTruthCanHurt yes and not just him, but all who use this and similar ways to sell their stuff, beliefs, ...
my guess is that his intentions here are very well meant, and he is not aware of what he is using in his suggestive questions. In a way if your "smart" and if you have little logic ... this that i sell, offer is the best you can do.
behumble4God 7 months ago
I like how the man defined "good person", and then the preacher ignored that definition when testing to see if he was a good person.
Venaloid 9 months ago
Ha.
Ahahahaha.
That damn parachute story's where I lost it. This shit's hilarious.
Somefurfag 9 months ago
What if hell isn't a bad place? Why should we fear hell, maybe God is a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to feast upon our "souls", if there is a cold war between God and Lucifer, than both would act like capitalist, sell sell sell! Satan only doesn't get much air time because most of gods followers are like transformers, psychotics in disguise. Owning all airtime and publishing right of propaganda and dogma. of course this argument is like saying you prefer Kirk over Picard.
Catmeisterofyoursoul 9 months ago
Once he says he is a liar, What is the point? You cant believe anything he says. Or You must choose to believe that this is his first ever lie, in order to believe anything beyond this, which you no longer can do now that he has just lied.
Or you cant believe him no matter what, other than what you choose. Is it really a good person that would take on your burden? Or would a good person encourage you, knowing you must carry your own load. As they must carry theirs.
pumpstations 10 months ago
Seriously what does Tony gain by going out in the open preaching the good news of eternal life? He is risking his charecter and he goes out there knowing the world will hate him and mock him! We as christians really care and love people and will risk our lives just to get one person to come to Christ. We risk everything just to help one person. How is that selfishness? The truth will set you free! You dont have to live in your sin and Jesus payed for the punishment of sin. THATS GOOD NEWS!
julie2branden 10 months ago 2
@julie2branden Okay if Adam and Eve were white, then how did black people come along. Your arguments invalid.
oexotik 10 months ago
Religion being the most evil by product of humanity gaining billions of tax free dollars...
Religion being the least cost effective when it comes to saving lives....
Religion being the only by product of humanity to be illogical by nature but to try and use logic to make it logical....PRICELESS.
roadkill1001 11 months ago
Manipulative guilt trippers preying on the young and insecure.
betlamed 11 months ago
This is filth.
aeros320 1 year ago
UninstallingWindows 1 year ago
@JohnF30Music Because we have free will, and a choice to repent of our sin and trust Jesus. Just because he died for us doesn't mean we have a free ticket to heaven. Then God would be a corrupt Judge and he can't do that, he is perfect.
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs So, would you care to explain how punishing a supposedly innocent man in place of a guilty person is justice?
Keitaro2011 1 year ago
@percyth11 You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has proved it wrong yet, because we can't we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant.
Evolution and the big bang is far more ridiculous than the bible.
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs Any God who would allow eternal suffering is unworthy of worship.
Keitaro2011 1 year ago
@SWrebs Do you realise that no religion ever on earth has been proved wrong (especially when they make un- testable claims and move the goalposts)? By your logic you should believe in every single one just in case it turns out correct and punishes you for believing in the wrong god. There are also many other things that have never been proved into to exist such as fairies, Santa, pixies and a teapot orbiting Saturn... Do you believe these to? Because they have never been proved wrong...
percyth11 1 year ago
@Dnile111 You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has prooved it wrong yet, because we can't cause we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant.
SWrebs 1 year ago
If it only takes one liar to be a liar then it takes one good act to be good. There for I am good.
caseybv74 1 year ago
@caseybv74
Truth is objective, Goodness is subjective...what is good? Only the absence of evil...or is it greater than or less than that? Is a cold blood killer who kills painlessly more "good" than one who makes his victims suffer? So according to your logic the "nice" killer is good...is that correct?
apathy7170 1 year ago
@apathy7170 A person who doesn't make their victim suffer is better than someone who does. Both cases are bad. I don't see your point.
caseybv74 1 year ago
It is so wonderful to see this young man's heart be softened as he listened to the Gospel! I am willing to bet that he has repented from his sins, and that satan lost one of his children to our Almighty Lord!
God Bless the men who so boldly share the Truth with others!
And God Bless the young man in this video!
downtoawhisper 1 year ago
heh, imagine that, a god who loves you so much he'll punish you for infinity for a finite 'crime', THOUGHT crime, no less
now, put the court scenario with 'some man' offering to go to jail for life for you and watch a judge say 'i don't think so'... for the simple reason of its injustice
GodsArePeopleToo 1 year ago
Praise the FSM! This dishonest and manipulative bastard uses illogic to trick false admissions out of people. First of all, of course, where the proof for any of those concepts ;) Secondly, the idea that someone who does something once is defined by that action, makes every person alive completely good, too. If there's none good but God, that makes each one of us God. I trust this is enough to show the problems with this crap.
archapmangcmg 1 year ago
Congratulations! You are good at manipulating emotionally troubled teenagers through push-polling and philosophical semantics. Does this give you a special house in heaven?
rnick284 1 year ago
I just lost hope in humanity.
AminelikesStephanie 1 year ago
If God forgives sin and all I have to do is turn from my sin and trust Christ =) I'm the happiest fanatic alive.
ASHELDONA 1 year ago
Religious fanatism
glottidum 1 year ago
Praise God!! Thank you master!!! :)
beefstroganof 1 year ago
Poor kid.
Atheist - You've done a few immoral things, so try get better.
Jesus-man - You've done a few immoral things, so try get better or else you're going to a place of eternal fire, ash, pain and suffering.
Wow, inspirational stuff.
astudyofeverything 1 year ago
Why did they turn the camera off?
drybomber5 1 year ago
@drybomber5
cuz he wanted to accept christ. its personal, and didnt want it on camera
DisneyBraniac 1 year ago
This makes me want to give my life to Christ all over again;)
Nik4J 1 year ago
Good job guys! People need to here what God has done for them. God bless
graffix87 1 year ago
Now, what's got me wondering is whether or not the guy with the mic knows how manipulative he's being. He's using a basic appeal to guilt approach combined with putting the guy on the spot, the person isn't that bright and already has implicit biblical views. yet another reason why the use and abuse of logic should be taught alongside maths, english and science from very early age. I bought the "fallacy detective" for my little sister ( 8 ) who goes to a church of England school.
jizzfish 1 year ago
Oh dear...the poor kid is actually buying into that crap or is he just an actor?
eran5005 1 year ago
So...according to this guy, if you tell your wife of 40 years that she is as young and beautiful as the day you met, you're a liar and going to hell. REAL compassionate!
And honestly, if someone put up a million dollars because they sold everything for me, I would decline them and serve my sentence. Why should HE suffer for MY actions. That's insane! Why would you think people would be ok with that?
Ripley747 1 year ago
@Ripley747 The purpose of the interview is to get people to realize they sin and that because we sin we deserve to go to hell. However, Jesus, the Son of God, died on the cross to pay the price for all our sin. Romans 10:9 - For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 No, the interview is to make people feel bad about about doing very human things to the point where they ask, "What do I do to fix this?" It's a psychological tactic. Of course he has the answer - Convert and confess and all will be forgiven. If I committed a crime, I would whole-heartedly refuse to allow them to pay my sentence. It was my fault. What kind of person would that make me if I allowed someone to do that? I should be accountable for my own actions, no one else.
Ripley747 1 year ago
@Ripley747 The bible says the fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom, so yes we should be terrified of what God will do to us if we don't repent and trust the savior.
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs Man is selfish by nature and most will not take the time to read and study the bible. It makes perfect sense of why we are here and life in general. But most will not take the time to study and read it. because they have (what they think is) more important things to do. Gambling your eternal soul is NOT wise, Eternity is a loooooooooooooooooong time to be wrong
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs How does it make sense that a perfect, self-contained, self-sufficient God needs to create humans? Much less at the risk of causing eternal suffering?
Can you prove this "soul" exists? Can you even define it?
Eternity is a long time to be wrong about Allah.
Keitaro2011 1 year ago
@SWrebs I never said "terrified" or "fear." I said the interview is to make them feel bad. Guilt is a more accurate description, not fear. And modern post bronze age psychology says the Bible is wrong. Fear is NOT the beginning of wisdom. It will decreases wisdom and intellect. People often make wrong choices and it's been shown your rational thinking decreases when you experience fear. Oddly enough the very opposite is true.
Ripley747 1 year ago
@Ripley747 So if I were a doctor and you were in my office and I knew your test results showed you had cancer and I gave you the medicine for the cure and said take this and I didn't tell you about the cancer would you take it? Of course not, you are going to want to know why before you take something or your not gonna think you need it. That is all this video is about. showing us we need Gods cure for our sin. But they have to know why first. Most people don't.
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs And if the doctor said, "People like you who smoke their whole lives are evil, rotten, despicable people who deserve torture for putting their family and their life in dancer. They should suffer extreme torture as commanded by my medical schooling. You should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you. But that's ok. I happen to have a cure that will make you a good person again without cancer and temporarily a non-smoker," I would probably seek a second opinion. That's just me though.
Ripley747 1 year ago
Comment removed
eahazell 1 year ago
what an unethical prick. This guy is far worse then the kid he's talking to. I am SO glad I don't follow that fairy tale book. Doesn't mean I don't have a moral code but I live well on my own merits, not a made up thought process based in fear arrogance and manipulation. He's a great cult recruiter. piss poor analogies with eth parachute.
eahazell 1 year ago
@eahazell You'll find out when it's your turn. We all will. I wouldn't put down the bible because if it's true, (nobody has proved it wrong yet, cause we can't speak to the dead) It would be horrible to suffer forever for being ignorant. But it's your soul, you can gamble it if you want to.
SWrebs 1 year ago
Comment removed
eahazell 1 year ago
And if those are exceptions then why don't you all stop telling people about it, then we wouldn't have known about it in the first place, hence we get a free ticket to heaven. Don't you want us all to go to heaven?. Your religion system is so flawed that I cannot begin to understand how it got to be believed in the first place.
PlutoedParadigm 1 year ago
So if a baby die before having enough notion to understand what your religion is about, then he/she will go to hell for eternity. Aren't we all born as sinners. What about someone who was born in a different culture, where there's no link to your religion, then he too goes to hell without any chance of doing anything about it?
PlutoedParadigm 1 year ago
@PlutoedParadigm Where did you read that? The bible clearly says that he will take care of all children. but only he knows the age at witch we are to be judged.
SWrebs 1 year ago
@JohnF30Music Who is threatening you?
Brucev7 1 year ago
the amazing marketing methods of christians. terrorize and make believe that we (all) deserve to die as a punishment, then say someone else died for us, then ask people to join the religion or they will die.
JohnF30Music 1 year ago
@JohnF30Music Yeah, but what if they are saying is true? Nobody can prove otherwise and if you understand the bible and study it, it does make perfect sense.
SWrebs 1 year ago
Wow.. talk about terrorism
JohnF30Music 1 year ago
God's Word is truly amazing! Amazing Grace! How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me!
jmcmahan15 1 year ago
This is manipulation of a persons fear. Hell is always brought into the equation to drum up concern. I've also heard this line before. "I'm a christian and I believe in god. If I'm right, I'll avoid going to hell. If I'm wrong, and there is no god, I have lost nothing." They don't see how much they are losing every day with this mind-set. Basically there whole lives.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 Hell is real
SAUNDERSacts2618 1 year ago
@jab0805 They seem to be misqouting Blaise Pascal a french mathmetichian and philosopher. The original argument can be found in the Pensees a collection of his unfinished apologetic work he was very sick and died too young. I do have a question though what precisely does their mind-set cause them to lose?
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 I was specifically talking about the "I have nothing to lose if I believe in god" mind set. Saying that If a person believes in god, when there clearly is no god, then that person still feels justified in his belief. Their reasoning being that if god turns out to be a hoax, they haven't really lost anything. It's a way of justifying their belief. If there is a god then they have done right, and will be rewarded with eternity. What they don't realize is that they have wasted their life.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 I see your point clearer now but what I suppose I really want to know is what part of life do they waste? What does their belief deprive them of (providing that they are mistaken ofcourse) that they could have experienced otherwise?
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 They waste their lives making decisions based largely on the belief that if they choose incorrectly or against gods will, then they will be punished with fire and eternal torture. So most of the decisions they make, although right, are based on fear. Where as a non believer makes a moral decision based on what he/she truly feels is the right thing to do. Not "I'd better do right or I'll fry" mentality.They are deprived of freedom. Their mind is held captive by fear.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 Do you believe that this is the mindset of all christians or just a certian demographic lets call them the False Pascalians? If other christians do not base their decisions on fear then their are lives still wasted in a like manner?
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 No, I don't believe it's the mindset of all christians. It does however seem to surface every time I admit that I'm an atheist. "But aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?" There you go... They don't get it. I am not afraid of hell just like I'm not afraid of santa claus. I believe that all religion is a waste of time. It should not hold sway with any law making. I am all for freedom. Religion however is dangerous in so many ways.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 Who's afraid of santa claus he gives you presents? :) So in what way do non fear centered christians waste their lives? To be fair I think it would be more honest to say all ideas are dangerous in numerous ways religious or otherwise.
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 It's like I spend my whole life praying to a grapefruit getting exactly the same results as a christian would praying to their god. Do you ,as a christian, think I've wasted my life praying to this grapefruit? I believe you would and anyone else for that matter. The guy in this video's argument is that anyone that has lied, stole, or cheated is a liar, thief, and cheater. So using this guys argument I can say with certainty that if I've ever done a good thing then I'm GOD.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 Well I am not well learned in the virtues of grapefruit and I would certainly point out to you that I believe you are mistaken in putting your faith into one, but until I hear your reasoning I would have no way to move from doubt to certainty about your um...habit. If there is no god however and death is truly the end would you be able to say that someone who felt the full range of humanity truly wasted their life based on one false beleif that may have brought them joy?
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 Bringing one joy is fantastic! But to do so at the expense of everyone else is wrong. Blue laws and the right for a woman to have an abortion are still issues today. Science has given us so much and answered so many questions yet the powers that be will stifle them at all cost to maintain their belief. My point about the argument is if you say I'm a liar because I have lied, then you can say that I am a god because I have done as god has done when I do good. It's a crazy notion.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 What if this person does not infringe on others is his life wasted in any way then? Where are these rights derived? Why does science have to be the enemy of christianity? Who are the powers to be? and if God is perfect then you would have to be perfect to be God not just do some good. I am sorry for all the questions this time, there were just so many different issues raised it can be hard to keep pace.
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 I will not pretend to have all the answers. That's the great thing about being objective. Sometimes we don't have the answer, but this doesn't mean we wont find it someday. I live in the southeast, I drive 17 miles to work. I pass 15 churches. The religious influence in our daily life is undeniable.That's the powers that be. It's scary how this cult life of theirs has sewn itself so deeply into our way of life. I for one say NO! Science by way of definition is opposed to religion.
jab0805 1 year ago
@anmfrk1 science doesn't assume something is true just because a book says so. Men wrote that book by the way. The bible teaches it's followers to recruit souls. That infringes on everyone, especially when they use fear tactics to indoctrinate children. They don't have a fighting chance.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 What is the definition that creates this conflict? I agree with you but the book still makes assertions and these assertions are the basis by which we can judge the the truth or falisty of the text. I have to ask a question about your last point doesnt holding anything to be true create a friction between other beliefs? I mean you yourself are not content to let christianity have the run of place is it not right to let all men test themselves in honest debate religious or secular?
anmfrk1 1 year ago
@jab0805 Or maybe you just can't deal with the fact you sin and what happens after death? The fact is we all will die. That is a fact. Since NONE of us know where we will go after we die it produces fear and many do not want to think about it. However, God already says what happens when we die. If you believe in his son and accept him as your savior you will go to heaven. If you don't then you go to hell. God showing mercy provides a way out of our sin. It is through Jesus.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 That is such non-sense. To put unjustified fear into a person. Just because a book that "men" wrote says so. You nor any person alive can produce not even one shred of evidence of a gods existence. Yet you insist on preying on the weak, scared, and desperate. You want non-believers to produce evidence that this god doesn't exist which is totally backwards. Like me asking you to prove that a giant spaghetti monster doesn't exist. It's the cult mindset. Use fear!
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 Proof is all around you God exist. For the same reason it takes intelligent life to build airplanes, cars, computers, homes, etc it took intelligent life to create everything in the universe. That intelligent being is God who created us in his image. However, we being of free will chose sin over God. Therefore God was born of the flesh(Jesus) and died on the cross, and resurrected on the third day to be the final last sacrifice for our sins. All that is required is you believe.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 To follow religion is to give up control of your life to an imaginary being in the sky. To not take responsibility, but just put it in gods hands. Let him deal with it. I don't relinquish control of my life to something I don't believe in. I see nature all around me. I'm not arrogant enough to believe it all had to be created by a being like me. It is what it is.
jab0805 1 year ago
@jab0805 There are many who used to think like you who now see the light and the truth. Those who want to know the truth find it. Have a good day.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 There are many that are wrong. Just as there are many that are right. I side with logic and reason. Truth isn't subjective. Have a good day as well.
jab0805 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
"it took intelligent life to create everything in the universe"
"That intelligent being is God who created us in his image"
Youve just contradicted yourself, first you say it took god to create life, but that god just exsisted without needing to be created.
Then god created us out of thin air as if by magic.
Perhaps you could explain this for us ?
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Rev 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest Psa 102:25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Hbr 1:10 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
And could you please answer the question i asked you rather than quoting a 2000 year old book.
You claimed it took a god to create the universe, but your claiming god doesnt require an explaination as to how he exsisted......
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest Being human and sinful we can never understand or fathom God's omnipotence or eternal existance. Since we are created we don't understand how God could never have been created. I would ask you how it is the universe was created and all the matter within it, or do you believe it has always been here? The fact is it takes more faith that everything you see around you happened to come by chance than by a creator. The complexity of the human body is enough to prove there is a God.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 NO, not being able to answer how the universe exsisted, is the exact same thing as asking how your god just exsisted, the only difference is that we know the universe exsists, we do not know that a god, or gods, exsists.
You are claiming 2 things, 1) a god exsists 2) He can create things by magic, i not claiming anything, im saying i dont know!
Please dont bring up evolution before you have answered this primary question.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest End of discussion. There is no point in talking to an athiest. You are all the same and you are stern in your beliefs as I am. I guess we will find out what happens to us when we die.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2 Yes it usually goes this way when christians cant answer the simplist of questions, and then realise that dont have any reason whatsoever to believe in a god, anymore than muslims or jews.
Please understand i never meant to be confrotational, i was simply asking a straightforward question.
Just remember the truth is the truth, weather or not you choose to accept it, if im right, and god really doesnt exsist, then there shall be no vengance, else it can only empower your faith!
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
Ps Just to clarify, please dont claim you have evidence for god if you dont, i dont mind people having there own beliefs, but if you make a claim, saying you have evidence, and then fail to provide such evidence, you are only trying to force someone to believe in your belief, which is how over 1 million jews got murdered, and is also against the human rights act.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest Either way I still love you brother/sister, and I have a desire to see all people come to Christ who loves you very much! Take care of yourself and be safe. Death is around the corner friend.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
I feel the same about getting people to see that there really is no god.
But i must express, the best way to get someone to see the truth, which is after all, the only thing that is important, is not to run away from questions, but to show your point of view is the correct one.
I know you think atheists "just dont get it", but it really was an honest and simple question, when i asked, "were did god come from ?"
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest The one mistake Athiest make is assuming there was a creator for God. If there was a creator for God then God wouldn't be God. Therefore the one that created God would be the true God and on and on we could go down that path. So I ask you this..do you sin? What is sin based off? Who sets the standard for right and wrong? If you don't believe in God and his laws doesn't that mean morals and laws are really subjective?
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
Saying a god cant be created or it wouldnt be a god, doesnt prove such a god exsists, it the same ask asking me how the universe began, i dont know, but you dont know how either, your just making a claim you cannot support with evidence, wereas im only claiming what i know to be a fact, ie, the universe does exsist.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
Right and wrong is dictated by your genes.
Lets go by the christian perspective, that dna is instructions made by god to create the human being, if those instuctions make a person a bad person, it is more likely those people will die, than good people who only fight or do harm to defend themselves, the good people will increase over time because there children will inherit there genes, which is why we look similar to our perants, that is Evolution!
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest That is microevolution which I believe in. Macroevolution hasn't been proven. Therefore that is the flaw. Also, your not really saying much by saying you know the universe exist. That is common sense. If I saw a car in the driveway I don't have wonder if there was a creator for that car. I know there was a creator. There is no possible way that car could have evolved over time from something else without a creator. The same concept applies to our universe.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
"That is microevolution which I believe in"
It is simply not possible to believe in micro evolution, because there is no such thing, evolution on small scale, is evolution on big scale, given enough time.
The only difference is that the human mind is only comfortable with small changes, and cannot visulise large changes, its easy for you to claim god, because you dont expect to have to explain how god created the universe, you just sit there and say god can do anything.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest Then you my friend just admitted you have faith in something you can't see. I can't see God but I have faith in his existance. You can't see evolution in progress on a large scale yet you have faith in its' existance. Therefore we are both equal now aren't we? I can't see evolution in progress on a large scale. I believe in below the species level evolution. I do not beleive in species level evolution. I have never seen it either.
Noahedwinbeach2 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
Yes but the difference is, that i have fossils and genetic evidence to show evolution happened, and you can see evolution in progress, to say i dont believe we can change from a fish to a human, is like saying i can walk to the kitchen but to walk to the shop would be impossible, to only difference is time.
Your first post said you have evidence, now you admit that you believe in something you cant see, you so called evidence only works in the church.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest - there is nothing awesome about being Athiest. You're intellectually empty and you have NO logic or reason behind what you say. There is not ONE shred of evidence to "prove" anything like evolution insofar as one type of creature turing into another type of creature. Time has nothing to do with it .. if it can happen it will, and it won't take "millions" of years. We've been here around 6000 years an have seen NO evidence of evolution. You have lots of blind faith!
jesusiseverything2me 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest We can see God's creation. God doens't want us to see him yet, we are currently separated by sin. And who's to say that wasn't God creating what man digs up as a blueprint to the first man? If evolution were true and we sprang from the ocean, then there would be no more fish as they would all evolve into man. not to mention we could cross breed dogs and cats and have Dats or Cogs. LOL!
SWrebs 1 year ago
@SWrebs It's quite obvious that you have no understanding of how evolution actually works. Evolution works by natural selection. Populations become isolated and unable to interbreed. Environments change. Organisms reproduce with variation, and some offspring have traits that better enable them to survive than other species of the group.
Keitaro2011 1 year ago
@SWrebs " If evolution were true and we sprang from the ocean, then there would be no more fish as they would all evolve into man"
Evolution doesnt say that, if it did, evolution would be proven false, stop misrepresenting the position of evolution when you dont even understand what its position is, you have been lied to by other brainwashed idiots like yourself, you are a disgrace to the human species.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@SWrebs Are you serious? Your argument is as absurd as saying if English came from the Germanic languages, then why do people still speak German? Wouldn't they have started speaking English? And as for your dogs and cats argument, the counter to that would be if creation were true, people should be giving birth to skunks all the time, without the need for a partner. Funny how this doesn't happen.
Ripley747 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest - can you answer this? If a human body only fully functions with all of it's inner workings working together, simultaneously, like the heart/lungs/brain all working together in perfect order without our controlling it, then which "evolved" first? And how did our heart pump the blood to all of our parts if we "evolved" a brain or lungs at a different time? Can you answer these questions? Nope, you cannot because ALL of our parts must work together to keep us alive ....
jesusiseverything2me 1 year ago
@jesusiseverything2me
"And how did our heart pump the blood to all of our parts if we "evolved" a brain or lungs at a different time? Can you answer these questions? Nope"
Asking a question and then answering that question yourself, clearly shows you have not means or will to stick around and have the questions answered.
If you are going to debate against evolution its a good idea to know what evolution is, this comment shows clearly you lack any understanding of the theory itself.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@Noahedwinbeach2
I plead with you to type "human evolution" into the search bar and watch a video by ceesee7.
We have the fossils to prove we evolved, we have the gentics and the understanding of the entire proccess, the only people who disagree are the christians, and they provide no reason other than it being crazy to imagine such a thing happened, BUT IT DID!
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest - we Christians are not crazy. I am highly intelligent and even as a non Christian I did not belive that evolution happened because it is impossible, preposterous, and cannot happen! There is NO fossil evidence! NONE! What 'they' claimed to be this or that 'Missing link" has been disproven to be something else ... you are the one with NO logic or reason sir, you have no common sense and have blind faith in the impossible .... Please read: God Doesn't Believe in Athiests"
jesusiseverything2me 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest - wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Genetic codes dictate our chemical makeup, our eye color, hair color, size, etc ... our genes don't make us "bad" or "good." NOONE is good (good meaning perfect) in spirit ... we ALL die because we ALL have sinned. WOW, that's the most bizarre and dumbest 'reasoning' I've heard in a long time. So if I work out I'm going to give birth to a baby who is born with large biceps? NO! See the silliness behind that reasoning?
jesusiseverything2me 1 year ago
@jesusiseverything2me
First of all evolution is an undeniable fact, and stating that fossils do not exsist is like saying the sun does not rise in the morning.
But if evolution were indeed false, nobody could possibly accept your option, because your ideas are not an option, they are MAGIC.
How can you expect anyone to cast out proven, observable, recreatable, scientific theorys, in favor of the idea that a god created everything from nothing.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest
Evolutionism is easily falsifiable. It's presuppositions do not lead to right conclusions based on the evidence. That is why the science has become consensual not empirical. If you can prove evolutionism please enlighten us, the world would love to see it, make sure it is not falsifiable. The "magic" u speak of is in the random non directed incalculable pseudo science called evolutionism not in the belief in a creator God.
apathy7170 1 year ago
@apathy7170
Evolution is a scientific theory just like the theorys that brought you your computer, and television, which is the reason it should be accepted, your idea about creation is not a valid point in any sense , its not like if evolution were false i could accept your idea, you idea is not an option, you cannot argue against science with the argument, "god done it", that isnt an argument, that isnt a theory, if evolution is false what is your counter claim ?
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest
You are making a straw man argument by comparing evolutionism to silica based processors or batch data processing. The argument most evo's would make is the "we don't see gravity but we know it's real, it's the same for evolutionism". Wrong. we can test gravity, it is observable & demonstrable. Not so with evo; it is not testable, observable or demonstrable. I saw Johanson use the gravity argument 4 evo at a "lucy" seminar. Straw man argument, 2 set up 1 argument 2 prove another.
apathy7170 1 year ago
@apathy7170
"Wrong. we can test gravity, it is observable & demonstrable"
So is evolution, if you had bothered to research you would know that sets of bacteria have been put into conditions were only one food source is avalible, both sets had the exact same conditions and all bacteria showed the exact same mutations.
Besides this fact, you have given no explanation as to how your god created life or the universe for that matter, god did it, is the REAL straw man argument!
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest
That is my point, gravity is testable & demonstrable where as evolutionism is not. Thank you for so not being able to understand my point that you reinforce it for me, what a great person to debate, one does not need to even try.
apathy7170 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@apathy7170
"That is my point, gravity is testable & demonstrable where as evolutionism is not"
I find it baffling how when confronted with evidence that evolution has be demonstrated, you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend you have never heard a thing, you are convinced you are correct, and ignore anyone who doesnt agree with you, and that is why you will never see the truth!
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
I just love all these quirky new evo-ish words...
"Evolutionism is not (testable and demonstrable)"
This is a widely spread belief amongst nay-sayers, but it is not true.
One claim evolution makes is that complexity, and purpose can be built from the ground up. Evolutionary simulations repeatedly verify this.
One claim evolution makes is the tree of life, and that joined branches on this tree will share characteristics of the common ancestor. DNA-analysis/paleontology verify this.
VV
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
VV
Evolution predicts that environmental pressures can cause changes to species:
-This is evidenced by wild animal herds becoming physically smaller in size due to human predation. Throughout time nature has selected against the weak and feeble. But we humans hunt the prize examples of the pack. By doing so we are unwittingly selecting for smaller animals.
-Introducing invasive alien species into an ecosystem causes changes to native species in that system.
VVV
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
VVV
-During the industrial revolution in England, many of the country's trees normally covered in white moss, were covered in suit, Darkening them. White moths which once sought camouflage against this white background suddenly stood out and were selected against, because they were easily spotted by their bird predators. As a result, that species of moth's wing pigmentation changed from white to dark brown.
-Nylon eating bacteria.
-Gamma ray eating bacteria.
-drug-resistant viruses/bacteria.
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W
Its no use pal, they just stick there fingers in there ears go lalala, and then claim youve proven them correct.
When they realise that those who are telling them that we are the ones who have got it wrong might not be be telling the truth, and take five mins to consider the points that people like us present, then mabye they will understand.
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@AwsomeAthiest
Perhaps, but I do it more for the 'on-the-fence' readers than for those who are making the bogus claims. Plus, frankly I find this kind of fun =).
We can always try. I feel that disinformation is a crime, and should always be countered with hearty bits of truth.
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W
I must agree, i also feel that a small number of those who i have debated have gone away and questioned there beliefs, its unlikely you will have someone admit they are wrong, but quite often you will have people leave debates when they are backed into a corner, since you cant disprove the truth :)
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
"since you cant disprove the truth :)"
They can try.. heh.
That's when it's time to pull out the big guns. The good ol' biblical contradictions.
One I particularly enjoy is as follows. (KJB)
1 Chronicles 21 1
"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."
2 Samuel 24 1
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."
The LORD = Satan. (according to the bible)
L00NGB00W 1 year ago 3
@L00NGB00W Haha thats great, oooo my turn my turn -_-.
"God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night"
I feel this quote pretty much certifys that it was scribbled by an old man sat in a cave somewere.
For the christians reading this, the lesser light is now known as the moon, if you have never heard of it, pop it into google and see what you come up with :)
AwsomeAthiest 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W
That is not a contradiction. YHWH controls everything, even the good and evil. He allows evil and uses the hearts of men and angels to carry out His divine plan. In that case the LORD used Satan to carry out His plan. God's plan was to number Israel because of His anger and Satan had tempted Israel and played a part in that "kindling of anger". YHWH allowed it to bear it's fruit and then used it for HIS good and glory, not Satan's. Not a contradiction; just how God works.
apathy7170 1 year ago
@apathy7170 If I were a loving god, evil would not exist. I would not use evil.
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W The parallel account of the incident surrounding the census reveals it was Satan who incited David to take the census: “Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel” (1 Chronicles 21:1). However, the wording of 2 Samuel 24:1 says that it was God who “moved David” to take the census. This discrepancy can be explained by the understanding that sometimes God sovereignly permits Satan to act in order to achieve His purposes.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@mvitt86 Thanks for your comments. You did a fair amount of research there.
Yes it is fair to say that YHWH 'used' Satan in this instance. But as I just mentioned to apathy7170, Would a loving, just God employ evil at any time?
I look at the claim of perfection slightly differently than you do.
You say: God IS perfect, his actions ARE therefore perfect.
I say: IF God is perfect, THEN his actions and creations must be perfect. Are they perfect?
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Your welcome and thank you for your time in taking my comments into consideration. For your first question I will admit it is hard to comprehend what Gods entire purpose is and I only understand what He has revealed in the Bible. I admit that I have many questions as yourself and sometimes I expect to know unexplained problems. As for your second question His actions are perfect, His creation was perfect until our sinful nature corrupted this world by constant disobedience.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@mvitt86 3 points...
1. Yes, it is oft said that the Earth was perfect until 'The Fall'. But consider that YHWH is supposedly All-knowing and perfect. He gave us free will, but forced us to remain ignorant. He knew exactly what we would do. 'The Fall' was part of his plan. To coin a phrase, He designed evil into us.
2. Another instance where god 'Used' Satan is in the book of Job. Job was the perfect worshiper. He was without fault. Yet YHWH handed Job's fate to Satan. In order to boast.
V
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@mvitt86 V
Thanks to this, Job lost his 10 children, 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 cows, and 500 she-asses. And was stricken with boils. Job cursed the day he was born. And in his grief, posed an interesting question:
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?"
3. Concerning David's sin. I always thought the reason for the sin was that YHWH told Abraham that his children would be as numerous as the stars. For David to count them was to doubt YHWH...
L00NGB00W 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W God uses Satan in various ways, among them the refining, disciplining and purification of disobedient believers (Luke 22:31-32; 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 2 Corinthians 12:7-10). Such is the case with David. God allowed Satan to tempt him and David sinned, revealing his pride and allowing God to deal with him for it.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W As to why God was angry at David, in these times, a man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God. In Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Then no plague will come on them when you number them.” It was up to God to command a census, and if David counted he should only do it at God's command, receiving a ransom to "atone" for the counting. This is why God was angry again with Israel and is also why David was “conscience-stricken” after he counted Israel. David knew it was wrong and begged God to take away the guilt of his sin (2 Samuel 24:10).
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W God gave David a choice of three punishments for his sin—seven years of famine, three months of fleeing before his enemies, or three days of plague. David chose the third and the Lord then punished Israel with a plague which killed 70,000 men from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south. As for why God punished the whole nation for the sin of the king, that is exactly the question David asked in v. 17.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Why, when he was the one who had sinned, did the people have to suffer? He even requested that God’s hand be against him and his family only, and that God would spare the people. But as with the account of Job, God chose not to give a reason for His actions. Perhaps it was because of Israel’s multiplied sins and rebellion against God throughout the centuries.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Perhaps it was because of Israel’s multiplied sins and rebellion against God throughout the centuries. Perhaps it was a lesson to the people (and to us as well) that the people suffer when their leaders go astray. The reality is that God didn’t justify His actions with a reason, nor does He have to.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W The Psalmist tells us “As for God, His way is perfect” (Psalm 18:30). If God’s ways are “perfect,” then we can trust that whatever He does—and whatever He allows—is also perfect. This may not seem possible to us, but our minds are not God’s mind. It is true that we can’t expect to understand His mind perfectly, as He reminds us “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9). Nevertheless, our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust Him and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W As we see in 2 Samuel 24:16 God was grieved because of the things that were happening to His people and called off the punishment. Even through His rebuke God still shows His love and mercy.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W
1. As I said there are many things I cannot comprehend but that doesn't give me a good reason to doubt Gods existence, or the Bible. It actually makes me eager to learn more rather than give up.
2. God never "used" Satan he allowed him instead. Like God allows bad things to happen on this earth.
3. Your right David failed and sinned against God many times as well as disobey in doubt.
4. Yes very interesting but it was a spirit who spoke to Eliphaz most probably God.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W The life of Job is proof that man usually has no idea what God is doing behind the scenes in the life of each believer. All humans ask the question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" It is the age-old question, and one that is sometimes difficult to answer in human terms, but believers have an advantage because we know that God is always in control and, no matter what happens, there are no coincidences—nothing happens by chance.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Job was such a man; he knew that God was on the throne and in total control, though he had no way of knowing why so many terrible tragedies were occurring in his life. Job never lost his faith in God, even under the most heartbreaking circumstances that tested him to his core. It’s hard to imagine losing everything we own in one day—property, possessions, and even children.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Most men would sink into depression and even become suicidal after such a nightmare; however, although Job must have felt all those emotions, he never wavered in his understanding that God was still in control. Job’s three friends, on the other hand, instead of comforting him, gave him bad advice and even accused him of committing sins so grievous that God was punishing him by making his life miserable.
mvitt86 1 year ago
@L00NGB00W Job knew God well enough to know that He did not work that way; in fact, he had such an intimate, personal relationship with Him that he was able to make the statement, "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face” (Job 13:15), There is another lesson in the book of Job, and that is the bond between husband and wife. Satan declared war on Job, trying to prove that he was only faithful to God because God had blessed him.
mvitt86 1 year ago