How can a house stand if its foundation is cracked? The racism comes from no less a set of persons then the central founding prophets, Smith & Young. There is not way extricate the racism from the founders, to reject the racism is to reject the legitimacy of the founders of Mormonism. If the Mormons were wrong on race, they are wrong on everything.
13...I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly FAIR and WHITE.18 ...the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.(BOOK OF MORMON 1 Nephi 11:13-18)
30...and behold they were white, even as Jesus. (Book Of Mormon 3 nephi 19:30)
"...the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21)."
"And the skins...were DARK...which WAS A CURSE upon them...(Book of Mormon, Alma 3:6)"
LDS is racist 2nephi 5:21 ...wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. Pearl of Great Price Moses 7:8 "a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan. . . ."Moses 7:22 ".for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."Brigham Young said "...the Lord put a mark upon him,which is the flat nose and black skin.(Journal of Discourses,Vol.7,page 290)
Yes many in my LDS Ward ( the older ones ) still believe that Blacks are the less valiants in the pre existence , whilst bthey were the more valiant being born WHITE and MORMOM too ! lol
omiolo The Mormon church preaches and teaches that BLACK SKIN is a CURSE from GOD thats a fact. When will the LDS church REPENT of this and say BLACK SKIN is not a curse from GOD and REMOVE the BLACK Curse of Cain Mormon doctrine from the MORMON scriptures?.How long do all Africans,Indians and all Dark skinned people of the world have to suffer and put up with this trash That God curses people that rebel with BLACK SKIN.THIS IS NOT CHRIST LIKE!!!! and if you believe in this you are a RACIST!
@omiolo BYU fires a professor who is Black for trying to educate people, as well as exercise his right to freedom speech, and you call it an anti-Mormon attempt to discredit the church. The evidence speaks for itself. Not only was it racist and unconstitutional for BYU to do what it did, but obviously there was a lot of personal biases involved. I hope this guy sues BYU for everything it has!
See Journal of Discourses 10:110. The eternal law for mixing with the seed of Cain is "death on the spot." Their children should be killed to, says the Lord's oracle. How thankful I am to be guided by a profit.
MormoNegro Were you ever a Mormon ? This Blacks thing freaked me out when I was investigating the church .The missionaries told me( after I asked )that God has white skin.I nearly was physically sick.I couldn't believe what they told me .
Exact quote attributed to Brigham Young in joint session of Utah legislature 2/5/1852: "I am as much opposed to the principle of slavery as any man in the present acceptation or usage of the term, it is abused." Sorry haters. Have a less bitter day!
The Mormon Church is NOT and CANNOT be the true church. Do you know why ?
Because God himself restored the true church at the ends of the earth, in the far east, coinciding with the outbreak of the First World War in 1914 by virtue of biblical prophecies.
The fulfillment is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO (Church of Christ).
The restoration of the true church or the IGLESIA NI CRISTO tells us that the Mormon Church !
Oh HELL yeah! Black people in this cult? WEIRD. Slavery ring a bell? How many "profits" had slaves they wipped and beat back in the day? Heinous! Black people should on the other hand perhaps could take over and have what they deserve, respect and dignity and treated like worthy human beings. Black is beautiful!!!
BUM: You mis-understood what I said. Most people of all races decline to accept the Gospel, not just most black people. That is their right. I guess the semi-rational discussion with you is over. You have reverted back to your opinion about the Church's record on blacks. I have proven that your opinion about BY's view on blacks was wrong so now you revert to inflammatory but false accusations. I can't respond rationally to your irrational opinions. Have a less bitter day.
BUM: With the expansion in the 70's of TV, radio, missionary work, etc., the opportunity has been provided by 1978 for those descendants to hear and accept the Gospel. Most declined. Too bad for them. But my quote disproves your personal, unfounded assertion about BY, which is why I quoted it. Your personal hatred of everything LDS makes you unable to use reason or logic. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule .. I'm not surprised most blacks declined , the LDS church has a 120 year record of Black Skin Hate and ridicule and insults . I don't hate everything LDS , all the parts from Traditional Christianity are fine .Its the unique LDS Nonsense of Black skin and polygamy we all hate !
Hey BUM: BY also said that Negroes would have the priesthood "when all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood." Id. Truth is cool. Try reading for yourself and stop relying on the Ed Deckers of the world. Have a less bitter day.
Billsoule ..well when is that time period, when have all the other descendants of Adam received the promises , I know lots of whites who haven't received the blessings yet so why are blacks being allowed in the Temple so early?
Good quote BUM. But as you say, quote the rest of it where BY says that after a time blacks will in fact have the same priesthood blessings. That, as you may know, happened back in 1978 if I recall correctly. Let's see . . . 1964 race riots, 1968 marches, . . . 1978 blacks get the priesthood. Sounds like God's direction to His Church is on about the right timetable with the rest of mainstream America. Then was then and now is now. Again, you have no point. Have a less bitter day.
billsoule . Brigham Young would be shocked to see blacks given the priesthood just like he would be shocked to see polygamy suspended.Its far too early according to his other sermons .Pressure from Society influenced the change not the Mormon God .
I don't know what "slags" means, but I don't see any quotes from you. Every time I point out facts to you, you come back with your personal opinion. BY does not say slavery is a divine institution. He says because of Adam's fall all men are "slaves," of course referring to men as slaves to sin. You implied BY approved of slavery and the facts show you are wrong . . . again. Have a less bitter day!
Now then in the kingdom of God on the earth, a man who has has the Affrican blood in him cannot hold one jot nor tittle of preisthood; Why? because they are the true eternal principals the Lord Almighty has ordained, and who can help it, men cannot. the angels cannot, and all the powers of earth and hell cannot take it off, but thus saith the Eternal I am, what I am, I take it off at my pleasure,
Exact quote attributed to Brigham Young in joint session of Utah legislature 2/5/1852: "I am as much oposed to the principle of slavery as any man in the present acceptation or usage of the term, it is abused." Sorry haters. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule , Brigham Young Slags blacks of in that speech .You just picked a little part out which makes him sound 'normal ' , its easily found on the internet !
Sagondo is mis-informed and can't distinguish between foibles of some Church members and Church doctrine. BUM is simply a bitter Church hater who was offended and left the Church or got kicked out. The Church has the answer for all of the ills that plague "black" culture. The Church has done more for black family history research than any other organization. And it has drilled more water wells in Africa than anyone else. You guys should read more facts. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule ..who drilled the water wells ? was it Brigham Young , Bruce McConkie or Joseph Fielding Smith ? Neither , Brigham Young didn't even want the responsibility of taking care of families of slaves , thats why he hired casual labour instead .Church history on Blacks is Abominable and the only answer is that the church is False !
Hundreds of volunteer, mostly white members who serve missions helping other people. What have you done to help blacks? The best you can do is criticism about why BY did'nt own slaves? It seems to me that the slave trade was handled by people who were not Mormons since most of it happened before the Church was organized. So "the only answer" is that the faiths of all of those people who owned slaves "is False" and that would eliminate Christianity. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule ,white people were mixed over slaves , there was the abolitionist movement in America which Brigham Young opposed saying slavery was of a Divine Institition. William Wilberforce (white Evangelical and his Shaker friends made slavery illegal in England 50 years before Brigham Young was opening his illinformed mouth .I pay into the church Humanitarian Aid Fund , I trust it goes to blacks ? The LDS church is not what it claims .
I cited facts in my last reply. Read the Church News 9/30/06 to see the Church in action helping blacks (with your Humanitarian Fund donations)with thousands of mostly white volunteers. You counter with an unsupported allegation against BY and a conclusory statement that the Church "is not what it claims." My evidence shows otherwise.
Darron Smith is in the wrong church ! Maybe he just doesn't know it yet . But how can you believe in Prophets and apostles and then complain about what they have taught ??? He will be thrown out eventually . Religions never admit mistakes (until 2 or 3 hundred yrs later ). That would be admitting they are false after all ! lol
As a black man who was raised in Utah I could never understand why Mormonism would even remotely interest blacks. I have talked to Darron Smith via a radio talkshow last year(2006) and told him that he deserve the problems he has encountered...what should he expect given the history of the LDS church?
Amen Sagondo ! You are absolutely spot on. I don't understand Darron Smith's postition, but I like the pressure he is putting on the Mormon church for an apology and hopefully he'll succeed , The LDS church needs to be told of its many mistakes. Such Arrogant leaders they have in the LDS church who need to be humbled and embarrassed too !
Also I can remember in some states that even if you were Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, or other if you were Black you still weren't gettin in. You had to build your church next door. Any church even the United States of America had to come around and realise that any form of segregation is wrong.
The history of the LDS Church is no different to the constitution of United States. There has been bigotry racism and hatred but the core value is liberty for all. Without a doubt the church has made mistakes as with the USA but we seek to come out the other end alittle wiser. The Apostle Paul springs to mind...
How can a house stand if its foundation is cracked? The racism comes from no less a set of persons then the central founding prophets, Smith & Young. There is not way extricate the racism from the founders, to reject the racism is to reject the legitimacy of the founders of Mormonism. If the Mormons were wrong on race, they are wrong on everything.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
SKIN color does matter to the MORMON GOD
13...I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly FAIR and WHITE.18 ...the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.(BOOK OF MORMON 1 Nephi 11:13-18)
30...and behold they were white, even as Jesus. (Book Of Mormon 3 nephi 19:30)
"...the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21)."
"And the skins...were DARK...which WAS A CURSE upon them...(Book of Mormon, Alma 3:6)"
Ilegalplayer 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
AFRICANS CURSED BLACK & FROM THE PRIESTHOOD By MORMONS
"..CURSED..to the Priesthood..being of the(BLACK AFRICAN)lineage by which he could not have the right of PRIESTHOOD(Abraham1:26-27)"
24..(BLACK AFRICAN)Ham,sprang that race which preserved the CURSE in the land(Abraham1:23-24)
"..the LORD shall CURSE the land..A BLACKNESS came upon all the(BLACK AFRICANS)..of Canaan,that they were despised among all people..(Moses7:8)"
"..seed of Cain were BLACK,and had not place among them..(Moses7:22)
Ilegalplayer 2 years ago
Are u seriouse this guy didn't lose his job, the contraversy was his book he still teaches there, I remember this I was a student during this
psegura86 3 years ago
psegura86 He was fired soon after for continually raising the issue.You can hear him being interviewed by John Dehlin on mormonstories website.
BringUmYoung 3 years ago
LDS is racist 2nephi 5:21 ...wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. Pearl of Great Price Moses 7:8 "a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan. . . ."Moses 7:22 ".for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."Brigham Young said "...the Lord put a mark upon him,which is the flat nose and black skin.(Journal of Discourses,Vol.7,page 290)
Ilegalplayer 3 years ago
Yes many in my LDS Ward ( the older ones ) still believe that Blacks are the less valiants in the pre existence , whilst bthey were the more valiant being born WHITE and MORMOM too ! lol
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
somehow this is an attempt to discredit the LDS church...at least by the ANTImormons!!
omiolo 3 years ago
Its just to highlight the nonsense of the church on banning blacks from the Temple and caling them the less valiant cowards of the pre existence.
The LDS church's and members like yourself are doing a great job of discrediting yourselves.
BringUmYoung 3 years ago
omiolo The Mormon church preaches and teaches that BLACK SKIN is a CURSE from GOD thats a fact. When will the LDS church REPENT of this and say BLACK SKIN is not a curse from GOD and REMOVE the BLACK Curse of Cain Mormon doctrine from the MORMON scriptures?.How long do all Africans,Indians and all Dark skinned people of the world have to suffer and put up with this trash That God curses people that rebel with BLACK SKIN.THIS IS NOT CHRIST LIKE!!!! and if you believe in this you are a RACIST!
Ilegalplayer 3 years ago
@omiolo BYU fires a professor who is Black for trying to educate people, as well as exercise his right to freedom speech, and you call it an anti-Mormon attempt to discredit the church. The evidence speaks for itself. Not only was it racist and unconstitutional for BYU to do what it did, but obviously there was a lot of personal biases involved. I hope this guy sues BYU for everything it has!
cayetanohawaii 1 year ago
@cayetanohawaii its unfortunate.
LAWTV1 1 year ago
the whole god thing thing is is a lot of bullshit.
darkknight200855 3 years ago
FYI: Darron Smith was fired from his position at BYU. He has made his point!
sagondo 4 years ago
See Journal of Discourses 10:110. The eternal law for mixing with the seed of Cain is "death on the spot." Their children should be killed to, says the Lord's oracle. How thankful I am to be guided by a profit.
MormonNegro 4 years ago
MormoNegro Were you ever a Mormon ? This Blacks thing freaked me out when I was investigating the church .The missionaries told me( after I asked )that God has white skin.I nearly was physically sick.I couldn't believe what they told me .
ElderJoseph 4 years ago
Exact quote attributed to Brigham Young in joint session of Utah legislature 2/5/1852: "I am as much opposed to the principle of slavery as any man in the present acceptation or usage of the term, it is abused." Sorry haters. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
The Mormon Church is NOT and CANNOT be the true church. Do you know why ?
Because God himself restored the true church at the ends of the earth, in the far east, coinciding with the outbreak of the First World War in 1914 by virtue of biblical prophecies.
The fulfillment is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO (Church of Christ).
The restoration of the true church or the IGLESIA NI CRISTO tells us that the Mormon Church !
anoifromlondon 4 years ago
why black people would choose to join a church that fundimentally hates them is a mystery to me.
radmilamilinkov 4 years ago
Mormon BYU scum board of directors, and/or Hinckley himself will have this poor bastards sorry ass kicked down the road. Fuckin' cult!
ilgbf 4 years ago
Oh HELL yeah! Black people in this cult? WEIRD. Slavery ring a bell? How many "profits" had slaves they wipped and beat back in the day? Heinous! Black people should on the other hand perhaps could take over and have what they deserve, respect and dignity and treated like worthy human beings. Black is beautiful!!!
nibborzevach 4 years ago
BUM: You mis-understood what I said. Most people of all races decline to accept the Gospel, not just most black people. That is their right. I guess the semi-rational discussion with you is over. You have reverted back to your opinion about the Church's record on blacks. I have proven that your opinion about BY's view on blacks was wrong so now you revert to inflammatory but false accusations. I can't respond rationally to your irrational opinions. Have a less bitter day.
billsoule 4 years ago
BUM: With the expansion in the 70's of TV, radio, missionary work, etc., the opportunity has been provided by 1978 for those descendants to hear and accept the Gospel. Most declined. Too bad for them. But my quote disproves your personal, unfounded assertion about BY, which is why I quoted it. Your personal hatred of everything LDS makes you unable to use reason or logic. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
billsoule .. I'm not surprised most blacks declined , the LDS church has a 120 year record of Black Skin Hate and ridicule and insults . I don't hate everything LDS , all the parts from Traditional Christianity are fine .Its the unique LDS Nonsense of Black skin and polygamy we all hate !
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
Hey BUM: BY also said that Negroes would have the priesthood "when all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood." Id. Truth is cool. Try reading for yourself and stop relying on the Ed Deckers of the world. Have a less bitter day.
billsoule 4 years ago
Billsoule ..well when is that time period, when have all the other descendants of Adam received the promises , I know lots of whites who haven't received the blessings yet so why are blacks being allowed in the Temple so early?
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
Good quote BUM. But as you say, quote the rest of it where BY says that after a time blacks will in fact have the same priesthood blessings. That, as you may know, happened back in 1978 if I recall correctly. Let's see . . . 1964 race riots, 1968 marches, . . . 1978 blacks get the priesthood. Sounds like God's direction to His Church is on about the right timetable with the rest of mainstream America. Then was then and now is now. Again, you have no point. Have a less bitter day.
billsoule 4 years ago
billsoule . Brigham Young would be shocked to see blacks given the priesthood just like he would be shocked to see polygamy suspended.Its far too early according to his other sermons .Pressure from Society influenced the change not the Mormon God .
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
I don't know what "slags" means, but I don't see any quotes from you. Every time I point out facts to you, you come back with your personal opinion. BY does not say slavery is a divine institution. He says because of Adam's fall all men are "slaves," of course referring to men as slaves to sin. You implied BY approved of slavery and the facts show you are wrong . . . again. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
Now then in the kingdom of God on the earth, a man who has has the Affrican blood in him cannot hold one jot nor tittle of preisthood; Why? because they are the true eternal principals the Lord Almighty has ordained, and who can help it, men cannot. the angels cannot, and all the powers of earth and hell cannot take it off, but thus saith the Eternal I am, what I am, I take it off at my pleasure,
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
Check out the Hoarace Greeley interview of BY- SLC July 13, 1859
Reprinted in SL Trib, Aug. 15, 93
H.G. — What is the position of your Church with respect to Slavery?
B.Y. — We consider it of Divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his descendants.
H.G. — Are there any slaves now held in this Territory?
B.Y. — There are.
taskboy 4 years ago
Exact quote attributed to Brigham Young in joint session of Utah legislature 2/5/1852: "I am as much oposed to the principle of slavery as any man in the present acceptation or usage of the term, it is abused." Sorry haters. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
billsoule , Brigham Young Slags blacks of in that speech .You just picked a little part out which makes him sound 'normal ' , its easily found on the internet !
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
Sagondo is mis-informed and can't distinguish between foibles of some Church members and Church doctrine. BUM is simply a bitter Church hater who was offended and left the Church or got kicked out. The Church has the answer for all of the ills that plague "black" culture. The Church has done more for black family history research than any other organization. And it has drilled more water wells in Africa than anyone else. You guys should read more facts. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
billsoule ..who drilled the water wells ? was it Brigham Young , Bruce McConkie or Joseph Fielding Smith ? Neither , Brigham Young didn't even want the responsibility of taking care of families of slaves , thats why he hired casual labour instead .Church history on Blacks is Abominable and the only answer is that the church is False !
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
Hundreds of volunteer, mostly white members who serve missions helping other people. What have you done to help blacks? The best you can do is criticism about why BY did'nt own slaves? It seems to me that the slave trade was handled by people who were not Mormons since most of it happened before the Church was organized. So "the only answer" is that the faiths of all of those people who owned slaves "is False" and that would eliminate Christianity. Have a less bitter day!
billsoule 4 years ago
billsoule ,white people were mixed over slaves , there was the abolitionist movement in America which Brigham Young opposed saying slavery was of a Divine Institition. William Wilberforce (white Evangelical and his Shaker friends made slavery illegal in England 50 years before Brigham Young was opening his illinformed mouth .I pay into the church Humanitarian Aid Fund , I trust it goes to blacks ? The LDS church is not what it claims .
BringUmYoung 4 years ago
I cited facts in my last reply. Read the Church News 9/30/06 to see the Church in action helping blacks (with your Humanitarian Fund donations)with thousands of mostly white volunteers. You counter with an unsupported allegation against BY and a conclusory statement that the Church "is not what it claims." My evidence shows otherwise.
billsoule 4 years ago
Darron Smith is in the wrong church ! Maybe he just doesn't know it yet . But how can you believe in Prophets and apostles and then complain about what they have taught ??? He will be thrown out eventually . Religions never admit mistakes (until 2 or 3 hundred yrs later ). That would be admitting they are false after all ! lol
BringUmYoung 5 years ago
As a black man who was raised in Utah I could never understand why Mormonism would even remotely interest blacks. I have talked to Darron Smith via a radio talkshow last year(2006) and told him that he deserve the problems he has encountered...what should he expect given the history of the LDS church?
sagondo 5 years ago
Amen Sagondo ! You are absolutely spot on. I don't understand Darron Smith's postition, but I like the pressure he is putting on the Mormon church for an apology and hopefully he'll succeed , The LDS church needs to be told of its many mistakes. Such Arrogant leaders they have in the LDS church who need to be humbled and embarrassed too !
BringUmYoung 5 years ago
Also I can remember in some states that even if you were Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, or other if you were Black you still weren't gettin in. You had to build your church next door. Any church even the United States of America had to come around and realise that any form of segregation is wrong.
gateway1965 5 years ago
The history of the LDS Church is no different to the constitution of United States. There has been bigotry racism and hatred but the core value is liberty for all. Without a doubt the church has made mistakes as with the USA but we seek to come out the other end alittle wiser. The Apostle Paul springs to mind...
gateway1965 5 years ago